Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, that booking makes NO friggin' sense.

[DeToxRox]

While the booking was questionable, watching Regal and Punk still each other was fun. I wouldn't mind a program there while they (hopefully) elevate Punk. It'd make sense to have him use MITB at SummerSlam or something like that.

[Ryche]

The booking baffled me at first, but in retrospect it makes some sense I guess. Punk has MITB, he didn't need KotR too. And he got a couple much needed clean wins over bigger names. Losing to Regal doesn't hurt much as Regal had a much easier path to the finals in comparison. And I've always liked Regal, so it's good to see he's evidentally going to be getting a decent push.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The booking baffled me at first, but in retrospect it makes some sense I guess. Punk has MITB, he didn't need KotR too.

I agree that under the circumstances this really doesn't hurt Punk much, if at all.
I'm just bothered by it since I really don't feel like it accomplished anything, turning the whole three hours into some meaningless matches meant as filler so they could do their big skit.

I just don't see how it elevates Regal. He is what he is, a veteran hand with some in-ring ability who also plays a management character on-screen. It's not as though he can really be any more obnoxious (which is his job) than he already was. It's not as though he's going to put butts in seats. It's not as though he's going to be any more over than he was. So where's the gain beyond filling three hours of time.

[DeToxRox]

I would kill to see Punk vs Regal on PPV. Lets hope they run with this.

[Flasch186]

Kennedy & Regal just went at it the hard way, i think. Regal, it seems cut it a bit close and Kennedy went back in to stand up for himself. good stuff.

[JonInMiddleGA]

LOL at the finish of Raw. Well, that was definitely different, to the point of daring even.

Of course, it also devalued the actual action ... but it was something out of the ordinary for sure.

[DeToxRox]

Considering how boring a match that became I say All Hail King Regal!

.. Though the logic is suspect as the crowd in the arena was booing him .. so he punished those watching on TV and not in the arena?

Regardless, I chuckled.

[Deattribution]

.. Though the logic is suspect as the crowd in the arena was booing him .. so he punished those watching on TV and not in the arena?

Regardless, I chuckled.

Sounds like the live crowd didn't fair much better.

Monday Night Raw went off the air without a definitive winner as the storyline was William Regal forced the show to go off the air. Live in the IZOD Center in East Rutherford, NJ, WWE champion Triple H and Randy Orton brawled before Orton powdered out and Triple H's music hit. There was no announced winner, so the live crowd didn't get a conclusive result, either.

[JonInMiddleGA]

On Impact, Daizee Haze vs Cheerleader Melissa ... it's Shimmertastic ;)

[SirFozzie]

that was nice...

but that Steiner interview...... :eek:..... brain explody just listening to it

[JonInMiddleGA]

but that Steiner interview...... :eek:..... brain explody just listening to it

All that was missing was a tribute to FOFC ... 2/3rds

[molson]

The WWE sure is in a wacky mood this week. After that RAW finish, Taz and and the guy from the old American Gladiators randomly walk off the ECW show. And WWE.com says:

"It has been no secret that our traditional ECW fans have not been satisfied with Adamle’s lackluster commentary"

A bad announcer angle? That's different.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Damn but I enjoy watching Sabin & Shelly work.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And I'd rather watch Christopher Daniels than anybody in the business today.

[DeToxRox]

This PPV is .. bad. That Terrordome match was horrendous. And who was the genius who made the cage red?

[JonInMiddleGA]

This PPV is .. bad.

And this surprises anybody? The lineup pretty much assured that before it ever started.

On the other hand, I thought Terrordome was actually better than I expected, less than appealing visual notwithstanding. The whole was probably less than the sum of the parts but there were some good isolated moments at least.

edit to add: Is it just me or are the high spots being telegraphed more than usual tonight? I almost wonder if the injury to Angle has everybody either working more carefully or even ordered to work more carefully.

[DeToxRox]

And this surprises anybody? The lineup pretty much assured that before it ever started.

On the other hand, I thought Terrordome was actually better than I expected, less than appealing visual notwithstanding. The whole was probably less than the sum of the parts but there were some good isolated moments at least.

edit to add: Is it just me or are the high spots being telegraphed more than usual tonight? I almost wonder if the injury to Angle has everybody either working more carefully or even ordered to work more carefully.

Exactly. That one Dutt spot seemed like it took ages to set up. I understand being cautious but wow.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pointless backstage segment #674,235 ... Joe's "kin".

Even the Billy Corgan celeb-in-the-crowd shot was better.
(And didn't he look as though he could have killed 'em for putting him on camera)

[JonInMiddleGA]

And props to the crowd (or their intentions at least) for the audible "Fire Russo" chant during the Nikki Roxx headshaving.

edit to add: Since Nikki bled hardway during this, maybe we'll see LuFisto & Mickie Knuckles get added to the roster at some point ;)

(I really would like to see LuFisto get a shot at national TV someday)

[JonInMiddleGA]

In an odd way I thought the HBK/Jericho segment was entertaining. It wasn't a particularly complicated angle but the execution (unless I missed some logical error along the way, which is possible) was actually okay.

HBK's exit from the ring was kind of the clincher I think, because it seemed to put to rest any questions about what the swerve was/wasn't, it wrapped it up & sent it to the PPV with a logical conclusion.

I shudder to think how convoluted Russo/Jarrett/et al would have made the exact same thing.

[DeToxRox]

In an odd way I thought the HBK/Jericho segment was entertaining. It wasn't a particularly complicated angle but the execution (unless I missed some logical error along the way, which is possible) was actually okay.

HBK's exit from the ring was kind of the clincher I think, because it seemed to put to rest any questions about what the swerve was/wasn't, it wrapped it up & sent it to the PPV with a logical conclusion.

I shudder to think how convoluted Russo/Jarrett/et al would have made the exact same thing.

Agreed. And Jeff Hardy is back.

Santino Marella is still the best thing going in WWE. I love him vs Rodney the Piper.

[DeToxRox]

Dola ... Hardy is over as hell still .. this theme is awful though.

[Flasch186]

Lillian Garcia was by far IMO the low point for the past few months. R E S P E C T sounded like S H I T.

Santino is great.

The Women's Champ is an awful actress, awful.

[DeToxRox]

PS - Anyone here interested in the best show of the year, buy ROH's Supercard of Honor III. It has EVERYTHING, including Bushwhacker Luke. But it has an amazing brawl, a dramatic world title match, an unreal tag team match, and the best six man tag you'll see in America.

ROH runs DVD deals all the time. Definetly take the time to take a look.

[DeToxRox]

Fuck Lance Cade. Murdoch's singing owns his soul.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Did anybody else notice that before Cade knocked Murdoch on his ass that Trevor botched the lyrics to the song? ("you better count your money ..." instead of "you never count your money...")

[Neon_Chaos]

http://www.411mania.com/siteimages/trombinoma8_2635.gif

[JonInMiddleGA]

As The Angles Turn

Sigh.

It would have almost been a good parody of the misbegotten booking mess if I didn't think they actually want us to take it seriously.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And now the Regal getting fired angle makes complete sense :(

http://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.php?id=31107&p=1
To follow up an earlier story here on the site, WWE announced this morning that William Regal has been suspended for 60 for his second failure of the company's Wellness Policy.

[General Mike]

And now the Regal getting fired angle makes complete sense :(



To me it was clear as day as soon as he lost the match that he had failed a drug test of some kind. Hopefully for his sake it was steroids, and not recreational drugs.

[Fidatelo]

To me it was clear as day as soon as he lost the match that he had failed a drug test of some kind. Hopefully for his sake it was steroids, and not recreational drugs.

I think I get what you're saying but that is a bizarre statement to read.

[JonInMiddleGA]

To me it was clear as day as soon as he lost the match that he had failed a drug test of some kind. Hopefully for his sake it was steroids, and not recreational drugs.

I figured given T-Lo's appearance (and the continued ratings struggles for Raw) that it was going to lead to some sort of brand switch for them both.

Truth is (foolish though it may have been) a wellness suspension never even crossed my mind last night.

[Flasch186]

It's just crazy to me that these guys (Hardy, etc.) just seem to buckle under the pressure of any serious push.

More disheartening is the fact that Regal was so rightly positioned during the Benoit stir that I thought certainly he would be the most sensitive to what is going on in regards to drugs and the wrestlers including himself.

---my thoughts on last night:

Maria has got to be getting to be done. Her skills are so bad that Im just not sure what they can do with her now that Playboy is over.

Piper's personality along with Santino's makes for an awesome undercard feud. Seriously, Santino is spectacular. Piper's shot about the designated driver on the heels of Santino's arrest for DUI is the sort of improv only a really comfortable player can pull off. awesome stuff. Santino rubbing his caked up face on Lillian's boob.

speaking of Lillian, may she never sing anything but anthems again.

Jericho is just not looking good in the ring to me. Slow and out of place for a lighter guy.

Bautista looks awfully good out there.

[General Mike]

Jericho is just not looking good in the ring to me. Slow and out of place for a lighter guy.


You're wrong.

[Flasch186]

hence why i said, "to me" :)

[Mota]

Jericho is just not looking good in the ring to me. Slow and out of place for a lighter guy.

I'll agree with you there. I watch his matches these days and I feel nothing. That's the worst possible feeling. He's not a high flyer, not a technician, and not a power wrestler. He's just kinda ... there.

I really miss the late 90's Jericho who was total badass. He had so much attitude and you felt like he was a star, even though he was a midcarder. Now they can push him as much as they want but his character is just bland.

[Deattribution]

I'll agree with you there. I watch his matches these days and I feel nothing. That's the worst possible feeling. He's not a high flyer, not a technician, and not a power wrestler. He's just kinda ... there.

I really miss the late 90's Jericho who was total badass. He had so much attitude and you felt like he was a star, even though he was a midcarder. Now they can push him as much as they want but his character is just bland.

To be fair, it's possible to say this about 95% of the entire WWE roster.

[Maple Leafs]

I really miss the late 90's Jericho who was total badass. He had so much attitude and you felt like he was a star, even though he was a midcarder. Now they can push him as much as they want but his character is just bland.
If I read between the lines, you're saying that he needs.... Ralphus~!

(Was that his name? Something like that.)

[thesloppy]

If I read between the lines, you're saying that he needs.... Ralphus~!

(Was that his name? Something like that.)

That was his name! The best part about Ralphus is, the way I heard it, he eventually got the feeling that he was the main attraction (which I think could still be arguable) and asked for more money and maybe even creative control over the entire Ralphus 'brand......and Ralphus was never seen again.

I dunno if that story is even 10% true, but I'm so attached to it that I don't ever bother to do any fact checking.

[Mota]

If I read between the lines, you're saying that he needs.... Ralphus~!

(Was that his name? Something like that.)

I loved Ralphus!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DeToxRox]

On WWE 24/7 Slamboree 2000 is playing, featuring Norman Smiley & Ralphus vs Terry Funk in the best hardcore match. Ever.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If only Orton could handle a mic ... there was actually a good bit of potential for that segment but he just couldn't pull it off. There was a moment or two there where I thought he was going to step up but he just can't quite get there.

[DeToxRox]

Ted DiBiase Jr finally works up to the big show. I really need a bald Shelton Benjamin to become Virgil Jr.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ted DiBiase Jr finally works up to the big show.

Well he's got the look, a decent catchphrase (corny but it should work okay), the question is whether he can bring the goods (and whether they'll let him).

[DeToxRox]

Well he's got the look, a decent catchphrase (corny but it should work okay), the question is whether he can bring the goods (and whether they'll let him).

He had a lot of heat on him, I was impressed, though it was mostly from his old man. As long as Ted Sr is there though, I think he'll do enough to stay over.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The WWE gets viewers the old fashioned way ... they buy them ;)

(Vince just announced a one million dollar giveaway for Raw)

[Flasch186]

ouch

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is there much that could scream "second rate" than having an American Idol loser be a focal point of your show?

[wade moore]

Hrmm.. been awhile since I watched wrasslin' and I've never watched more than about 15 minutes of TNA - gonna flip between this and NBA.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Hrmm.. been awhile since I watched wrasslin' and I've never watched more than about 15 minutes of TNA - gonna flip between this and NBA.

Tonight probably ain't the night.

Although things are increasingly spotty, tonight is really just not much to write home about. Judging from the spoilers, next week should be quite a bit better.

[Flasch186]

they could give away 999,999$?

[JonInMiddleGA]

they could give away 999,999$?

Remember the $1 million challenge from December '06? No?

That's okay, you didn't miss much ;)

[Flasch186]

I actually do remember the Million Dollar Man's challenge....I thought it was fun. He was one of my favorites and actually think that, as usual, they blew the son's entry. They shouldve had the son come out in a suit and buy a wrestler or something. Instead he comes out and challenges....a whole tag-team? I swear I think that they have no clue what theyre doing sometimes.

[Flasch186]

oh, and Tomko needs a tan.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I actually do remember the Million Dollar Man's challenge....

No, not that one.

I'm talking about the very forgettable (artists formerly known as) New Age Outlaws "challenge" to Vince back at the end of 2006, offering him one million dollars to let them face the (then recently) reunited DX.

[jbergey22]

***Major Spoiler***








Undertaker is done


I can not believe it

[DeToxRox]

Randy Orton broke his collarbone tonight on a sick bump to the outside.

[jbergey22]

I read yesterday he's taking some time off, so it's not a surprise. He'll be back. He seems like he'll wrestle until he's no longer able to physically do it.


I did read some of this after the match... I just wonder how they are going to swerve around this. They already said he cant come back under a different brand.

[Ryche]

I would think they can say Vicky didn't have the authority to ban him from Raw since she's the Smackdown GM.

[duckman]

They're teasing an Undertaker retirement. They moved his profile to the Alumni section of wwe.com.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I know it's kind of strange to say but , nice work by referee Rudy Charles in the opening match of Slammiversary tonight. Good effort.

And the return of Abyss in the first half hour.

edit to add: And I think I've got a new wrestling annoyance - changing a character's name after one appearance. Tonight we discover that Mickie Knuckles is now known as "Moose". Earlier today I saw where Matt Sydal (who worked under that name on ECW last week) is now "Evan Bourne". I get changing charcters, name ownership, etc., but ... why not assign the name before their debut instead of changing it less than a week later? Either they're stupid or they think we are.

double edit: Not much fancy about the 3-on-3 knockouts match but some pretty good stuff in terms of old school psychology. While "The Beautiful People" aren't the greatest workers in the world (although better, I believe, than their characters force them to play at times), it was nice to see a tag team pick a body part & work on it consistently. Very 70's flashback stuff, but good to see, especially with a women's match.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Really dead crowd so far for the KOTM main event. And the intensity just doesn't seem to be there from the workers either. A good dive or two but on the whole it's just been slow to this point.

[DeToxRox]

Unbelievable. Vince McMahon got RICKROLL'D live on RAW.

[DeToxRox]

And we come full circle as Jericho completes a heel turn throwing HBK through his JeriTron 5000. That ruled.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Lawler re: Umaga & Snitsky "That's a tag team uglier than Hulk Hogan's divorce"

[DeToxRox]

Ric Flair is back on Raw

[JonInMiddleGA]

And the desperation to improve the ratings continues. After the disappointing effect of the cash giveaway last week, Ric Flair just came out to interrupt a Jericho promo.

edit to add: O-kay. That was ... odd.

For those who aren't watching, after a 3+ minute commercial break to give him time to get to the ring & let the ovation subside a bit, Flair had a conniption & challenged Jericho to a fight in the parking lot. They make a loooong trek through the back, Flair disappears through an exit door, Jericho opens a different door & stops to react to someone unseen. And HHH walks through the door to challenge Jericho. They yang yang at each other a bit and Jericho slowly walks away as we cut to another commercial.

[Flasch186]

they just need to hit the reset button again and let someone else do their writing who, Ill say it again, understands the concept of character arcing and the limits to these idiots acting. Mickie James acting is an abommonation and if they dont teach the editors to cut away before the 3 second stare off into space the "actors" are forced to do, im going to just die....

BTW Ive stopped watching so I am sure that im not unique and their are many others who've turned it off in the hopes that in 6 months or so it's dynamically better.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mickie James acting is an abommonation

Bad thing about that is that you could just let her wrestle & she'd be fine.

With Phoenix & Lea already up, Neidhart in the wings, it wouldn't take much for them to be able to actually shift from the eye candy to women who can actual work in the ring more than a little bit. And if they did make that transition sooner rather than later, they'd just about kill the one thing TNA has working for them at the moment.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Sheesh, I thought some of the other stuff was random.

But Lance Cade interfering in the main? Involved in at least a mini-angle with Jericho, Cena, and Trips? WTF?

[saldana]

Sheesh, I thought some of the other stuff was random.

But Lance Cade interfering in the main? Involved in at least a mini-angle with Jericho, Cena, and Trips? WTF?

i was trying to figure out if i had missed something by taking a couple months off...how the hell did cade fit in with y2j?

[Neon_Chaos]

i was trying to figure out if i had missed something by taking a couple months off...how the hell did cade fit in with y2j?

...you have to watch next week to find out...


:D

[MacroGuru]

i was trying to figure out if i had missed something by taking a couple months off...how the hell did cade fit in with y2j?

Well, the funny part of it, they were in SLC and Y2J was there telling them that he was their savior, it's a good thing the wrestling demographic is of a different footprint than the normal population there, it could have gotten ugly...;)

But I was scratching my head as well with Cade coming in.

[DeToxRox]

LOL. Vince McMahon killed himself off again.

[DeToxRox]

This is absolutely hilarious.

[duckman]

JR to Smackdown? WTF?

[JonInMiddleGA]

WTF was that all about?
Vince amnesia angle coming up?
Time off to recover?

Nice touch having Trips lead the charge to "rescue" Vince and, VKM calling him Paul was pretty good too.

[DeToxRox]

Vince isn't dead but he does seem to be crippled now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

JR to Smackdown? WTF?

Most of the draft was pretty WTF I think.

HHH & JR to Smackdown? Punk gone from ECW?

[DeToxRox]

Punk to Raw made sense. HHH to SD I am shocked about. I bet JR gets "traded" to Raw. HHH will stay on SD until the hype from their debut on MyNetworkTV is off.

[Jas_lov]

They don't want Punk to waste the MITB on the ECW title so they move him to Raw. It's brilliant. The JR-Cole switch is stupid and unnecessary. HHH to SD is a surprise and I guess you can't accuse them of being predictable. Vince almost dying was an excellent way to end the show. It officially puts an end to the million dollar giveaways.

[JonInMiddleGA]

They don't want Punk to waste the MITB on the ECW title so they move him to Raw.

But they also moved the ECW title to Raw.

[DeToxRox]

But they also moved the ECW title to Raw.

Well, Kane is going to lose to Show Sunday. And if not, remember ECW tapings are moving to Mondays now. So expect a "talent agreement" like SD & ECW had.

[SirFozzie]

Live, from whatever arena they were in, it's WWE's Stupid Vince Tricks!

[molson]

I've found that it's very entertaining to read the RAW thoughts here before I actually watch the show.

Especially Detox's quote, "Vince isn't dead but he does seem to be crippled now." I don't know if the actual show can live up to that.

[molson]

I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but someday, I'd like to see a guy with a PPV match coming up lose on TV. The match outcomes are so predictable tonight it's just annoying.

[saldana]

I haven't watched the whole thing yet, but someday, I'd like to see a guy with a PPV match coming up lose on TV. The match outcomes are so predictable tonight it's just annoying.

i agree...there wasnt one match all night that i didnt know who was going to win before the bell rang, but the worst was the battle royal, seeing as the dimwit announcers were babbling the whole time about Raw having already had 5 draft picks and smackdown only having had 3...anyone that didnt know before it started that smackdown was going to win the 2 picks must never have watched wrestling before.

and hasnt batista been drafted everytime they have done this....wow....totally random.

i was surprised to see HHH go to SD, as soon as I saw batista to raw, you had to know a major name would go back, but i thought it was going to be Cena.

[DeToxRox]

I thought Tazz was hilarious because he was legit pissed at ECW being treated like Heat. Also JR was livid you could tell. I expect he will be traded back to Raw as Vince is having fun with him.

[finketr]

Well, the funny part of it, they were in SLC and Y2J was there telling them that he was their savior, it's a good thing the wrestling demographic is of a different footprint than the normal population there, it could have gotten ugly...;)

But I was scratching my head as well with Cade coming in.

so getting caught up.. and this is where the neighborhood lost power for an hour so i missed the rest of that night.

[duckman]

I am not happy about this surprise development.

I also contemplated calling it a career Monday night and not going to Houston to tape SD.

After speaking with my wife and thinking on this matter until 6 a.m. Tuesday morning, I have decided to do the right thing for the fans who care and the talent who care and begin my new assignment.

It has been explained to me that the WWE's Smackdown tenure on My Network is a high priority within the corporation. Allegedly, my presence is needed in that effort.

hxxp://www.jrsbarbq.com/2008/06/24/jr%e2%80%99s-post-draft-thoughts/

[MacroGuru]

We have been watching RAW religiously since moving here in April, my wife likes to oogle the bodies of some of the guys and laugh at the acting, me just because I started watching it again on the road to pass the dead time away. I am hooked on the story lines and angles on such.

But last night was pitiful as far as the matches went. ECW is definitely the bastard child and was treated as such last night.

We liked HHH and seeing him go was upsetting, especially to a night we won't watch it. Although Mysterio is going to be good on RAW.

The hinged lighting prop falling on Vince was the one thing that I couldn't stand. That and its the easy way out to stop giving money away without pissing off the fans.

[duckman]

Is that a worked shoot or a shot work?

Rumor was he was genuinely upset about the move because he was not told before the show that he would be moved.

[Maple Leafs]

Rumor was he was genuinely upset about the move because he was not told before the show that he would be moved.
Apparently none of the talent knows they're going to be drafted until its announced. They get a group of them together and say "one of you is about to be drafted, here's what you'll do if you hear your name" and that's as much notice as they have (apart from HHH, of course).

I was really surprised to hear that.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Is that a worked shoot or a shot work?

Although there's always a certain amount of respect for kayfabe given on JR's blog, I believe the reputation is that he shoots fairly straight there & I don't consciously remember him doing much in the way of working the marks in that venue. There's usually some stuff where he doesn't say what's on his mind fully but off hand I really don't recall him really toeing the company line there either, he'll just avoid commenting on something or be brief if he's not happy.

'Course, it is wrestling, so anything is possible.

[Schmidty]

Triple H and JR going to Smackdown might actually convince me to Tivo it finally.

[molson]

and hasnt batista been drafted everytime they have done this....wow....totally random.



I was starting to doubt whether it was supposed to be random in kayfabe or not. I mean, Cole right after JR? I know this is pro wrestling but geez.

[duckman]

Wow, no world champion on RAW as both Edge and Triple H won their matches tonight! :confused:

[SirFozzie]

Give Trippa Eitch reason to appear on both shows. Ego feeding time!

[JonInMiddleGA]

And Raw now has a World Champion :)

[DeToxRox]

I don't care how he did it, and that he will be a transitional champ, just following his career from IWA-MS to ROH and now to WWE has been amazing.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't care how he did it, and that he will be a transitional champ, just following his career from IWA-MS to ROH and now to WWE has been amazing.

Yep, that's one of the cool things about following the lower levels.

On a much smaller scale just seeing Austin "Consequences" Creed debut in TNA, and in person to boot, was the biggest mark out moment I've had in years.

There's something about "knowing them back when" (or even just feeling like we knew them) that makes it a lot of fun when they really hit it big.

[DeToxRox]

Mysterio looks like he spent three days in a drying machine.

[DeToxRox]

Santino continues to be the best thing going in wrestling. LMAO at his WWE Magazine Cover photo.

[DeToxRox]

Punk vs JBL tonight for the strap. Should be fun in a morbid kind of way. I truly see Punk losing lol.

[Noop]

How did CM punk become champ? I missed the first hour.

[SirFozzie]

JR did a farewell speech. Edge came out, and had his cronies escort JR out, and said "You'll never see this belt on raw again".

Batista came running down and did a number on Edge (press slam to the announcing table, batista bomb in the center of the ring)

CM Punk came running down, cashed in MITB, Go2Sleep, pin.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That's a missed opportunity right there, had a chance to elevate somebody's profile by at least attempting a save for Cena. Didn't have to be successful, a JBL cheap shot could have ended the effort. Just seems like a blown chance to accomplish something beyond seeing JBL for the 2nd of 3 times in one night.

[DeToxRox]

This Raw has been fantastic. I'd love for "martial law" to go on on Raw for a while until they decide on a new GM. Every week anything can actually happen. I doubt this keeps on but it should.

[Noop]

Dang so the Big Gold Belt is on Raw? Nice to see the NWA Belt on the number 1 show.

[SirFozzie]

with the changes in the draft, it's arguable if RAW is still the A-show.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Incidentally, the two jobbers are from the WLW indy in Missouri. The one that looked like a raggedy Eric Young is the head trainer for Harley Race's academy.

[Jas_lov]

Punk vs JBL tonight for the strap. Should be fun in a morbid kind of way. I truly see Punk losing lol.

Nah, Cena will come back into the building and cost JBL the match.

[Flasch186]

Y'know the fact that the draft is done so randomly, so uninformed speaks volumes to how poorly the company is run. They should be planning everything, with backup plans in case of injury or suspension but scripts should be written out months in advance with care and analysis about arcing and stuff. But WTF do I know, they dont seem to pay any attention to that sort of stuff at all. Now Ill go watch the rattlesnake save Stephanie from marrying the undertaker in one of the best character arc moments in WWE history.

[DeToxRox]

I think this is leading to a multi man match at the Bash. Maybe an Elimination Chamber.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Kane & Noble? And Noble actually got some offense? WTF?
Now that's random.

[DeToxRox]

There has been no wrestling tonight but this has been my favorite Raw in ages, because I have no idea what's happening. For once the predictability is gone.

[DeToxRox]

See No Evil 2 starring Chris Jericho

[JonInMiddleGA]

Gosh that was sloppy. Were these two that bad together last night?

The Lionsault was sweet & looked effortless but otherwise there were quite a few half hit moves, some low Indy quality moments, and just all around meh moments.

[Flasch186]

u watched a Jericho match, eh?

[JonInMiddleGA]

u watched a Jericho match, eh?

I think I've seen most of the ones since his return, but this was by far the worst I've seen. He had some ring rust early on but this wasn't like that, Kingston even looked a lot worse than the few times I've seen him too.

Along the train of thought you were on earlier, this looked for all the world like a couple of guys who have spent virtually no time working together at all, which would be mind boggling since they just PPV'ed together last night.

[Flasch186]

I swear if they would let 4 or 5 guys with any writing ability, knowledge of emotion(s) and their carry, and some $ I think we could turn this thing around. I really do. Anyone wanna put together a group resume?

[JonInMiddleGA]

I swear if they would let 4 or 5 guys with any writing ability, knowledge of emotion(s) and their carry, and some $ I think we could turn this thing around. I really do. Anyone wanna put together a group resume?

I'd offer except that I'd want angles that could last more than 1 PPV to the next and there's no way they'd ever allow it to happen.

As an odd aside, I actually think I'd be more useful in the scouting than the booking end anyway. I've played enough TNM/EWR/TEW to know how easily I can write myself into predictable situations that become lather-rinse- repeat but I feel like I'm pretty good (IRL) at spotting talent. So I'll find 'em, you get 'em over ;)

[DeToxRox]

That security guard by the announce table is Cena I think. That hair looked so fucking fake. If it isn't him, then I am in disbelief someone can have such greasy hair.

[DeToxRox]

Okay, seeing the guy's face, I take it back. Jesus christ his hair does not look real.

[DeToxRox]

Wow, this was so random I loved it. Cryme Tyme and Cena?! Count me in.

[DeToxRox]

There was literally like 15 minutes of wrestling tonight, but all that aside, this was seriously one of the best Raw's I've seen in a long time.

[RawIsDan]

Well, at least they are trying to mix things up a bit. I thought for sure that Punk would loose to JBL but at he kept it. Santino still continues to crack me up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

OUCH !
New TNA knockout Mickie Knuckles (aka Moose), who had been getting a TV push with back to back wins, reportedly suffered a broken femur at an indy show (IWA Mid-South) over the weekend. The break is being compared to the Sid Vicious injury back in WCW. According to Ed Chuman, who is the promoter for NWA Midwest Wrestling, Knuckles took a jump from a high platform and came down with all of her weight on one leg. Sara Del Ray, her opponent for the match, tried to catch her, but was unable to latch on to the free-falling 185-pound women's wrestler.

http://www.tnawrestlingnews.com/headlines/217447230.shtml

edit to add: Mike Johnson at PWI is reporting this morning that the surgery to repair will be done later today & apparently it was a clean break instead of a compound fracture which will at least make the healing process easier.

[JonInMiddleGA]

After reading a recap I think I'm glad I skipped everything except the last 20 minutes.

And suddenly Kane has gone loonytoons because Vince isn't there?

When did Jarrett, Russo, and Mantel start writing Raw?

edit: And the show ends three minutes early?

[DeToxRox]

Raw was interesting. The focus on new guys and ideas is definetly there for another week, but the execution was nowhere near last week. At least Punk killed Zitsky.

[DeToxRox]

Dola .. Batista being interupted backstage by a guy doing Batista's pyro machine gun move was awesome. With that and the "snaffus" production wise, I feel like Raw is using the "inmates run the asylum" to bring in a new GM or bring back Evil Dictator Vinny Mac.

[Flasch186]

worst show i can remember...

[General Mike]

worst show i can remember...

Definitely. What kind of drugs did Brian Gewirtz take before he wrote this show?

[saldana]

After reading a recap I think I'm glad I skipped everything except the last 20 minutes.

And suddenly Kane has gone loonytoons because Vince isn't there?

When did Jarrett, Russo, and Mantel start writing Raw?

edit: And the show ends three minutes early?


actually that didnt even occur to me...i thought it was another "kane has another psychotic break because he wants to know if the undertaker is coming back or not" bit as a lead in to them bringing UT back...he cant come back to smackdown as long as that academy award winning actress, vicki guerrero, is the GM

[JonInMiddleGA]

actually that didnt even occur to me...i thought it was another "kane has another psychotic break because he wants to know if the undertaker is coming back or not" bit as a lead in to them bringing UT back...

That's what I thought at first too but I swear I heard him say "Vince" (or actually "Vince McMahon") toward the end of the segment.

[Maple Leafs]

Didn't see it, but Raw sounds like WCW in the "new blood" era. Why can't they bring a few guys along at a time, instead of suddenly having every mid-carder on the roster suddenly get pushed at once?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Didn't see it, but Raw sounds like WCW in the "new blood" era. Why can't they bring a few guys along at a time, instead of suddenly having every mid-carder on the roster suddenly get pushed at once?

Desperate times lead to desperate measures. They seem to be hoping that they can catch lightning in a bottle & hit on the next Stone Cold. Ratings are down, not even giving away large sums of cash gave them the boost they wanted/ needed, the return of Jericho fizzled, they've devalued the ECW brand almost completely, their #2 show got dropped by a second tier network & ends up on the broadcast equivalent of a third world country, etc, etc. There's very little good news for them lately and I sense a growing amount of frustration & desperation.

The one thing that might give them the best chance at pulling out of the slump, namely working hard to create a solid product, seems to be the one thing they're most unwilling to try.

[TexasT]

Please get rid of that hag Vickie Guerrero!:banghead:

[JonInMiddleGA]

Please get rid of that hag Vickie Guerrero!:banghead:

Testify.

[albionmoonlight]

The one thing that might give them the best chance at pulling out of the slump, namely working hard to create a solid product, seems to be the one thing they're most unwilling to try.

You know more about the economics of the business than I do, but would it be possible for them to have an offseason? Or at least some planned breaks during the year?

It seems like both the writing and the wrestlers' bodies could use an offseason in order to heal/become stronger.

And I could see things basically build up to Wrestlemania every year--kind of like the Super Bowl. And during the offseason, they could show "Best of RAW" or "WWE opens the Vault" and show classic matches from their film archives.

But, I have a sneaking suspicion that they make way too much money from house shows and PPVs and their TV contract to basically go into re-run mode for 2 months a year.

Still, desperate times . . .

[RawIsDan]

Another good segment from Jericho and HBK. I like the way they are slooowly building this one up.

Batista being interupted backstage by a guy doing Batista's pyro machine gun move was awesome.

Got a chuckle out of that myself.

[molson]

You know more about the economics of the business than I do, but would it be possible for them to have an offseason? Or at least some planned breaks during the year?

It seems like both the writing and the wrestlers' bodies could use an offseason in order to heal/become stronger.

And I could see things basically build up to Wrestlemania every year--kind of like the Super Bowl. And during the offseason, they could show "Best of RAW" or "WWE opens the Vault" and show classic matches from their film archives.

But, I have a sneaking suspicion that they make way too much money from house shows and PPVs and their TV contract to basically go into re-run mode for 2 months a year.

Still, desperate times . . .

I'm pretty sure their TV/PPV contracts would prevent that, and I don't think Vince would want to leave all that money on the table anyway. He's always run a crazy schedule (much less crazy now than the 80s), with the idea that if a wrestler doesn't like it, he can bring someone else in, and that's probably more true now than ever with no real competition. (Though I think everyone agrees that an offseason would be better for the health of the wrestlers, and it would probably help creatively as well)

TV ratings aren't really all that down (unless you're comparing them to '99-'01), and the WWE still does great business compared to most other eras of their history, especially internationally. I think the "desperation" stuff is a little overplayed - they business grew in the late 90s, and it still hasn't fallen to close the level it was before then.

[JonInMiddleGA]

TV ratings aren't really all that down (unless you're comparing them to '99-'01), and the WWE still does great business compared to most other eras of their history, especially internationally.

I don't know that I agree, not when they've been at/around four year lows on a regular basis for several months & on a slow but steady decline during that time.

I also don't think they're looking for the 6.0-7.0 ratings they saw during the peak, but I do believe there's some pressure coming from USA for things to get back up in the 4's where they had spent most of '05, over half of '06, and the first quarter of '07.

I also suspect that a good bit of the pressure that I believe is coming from the network has to do with how close TNT is to passing USA as "the most watched cable network" in multiple demo's. Just in the past year, USA has slipped from 1st to 3rd overall (behind both TBS & TNT) in the primetime viewers 18-34, and has seen their lead over TNT narrowed by more than 25% in primetime 18-49's. Given the good performance of several of their original series over the past couple of years, I believe USA feels like they ought to be increasing their advantage instead of losing it and when your number one show has dropped around 1/4th of it's audience that would seem likely to make it a focal point.

[Neon_Chaos]

Is www.scoopthis.com making a comeback!?!?!?!?!?!

I can't wait.

(that is, if you guys still remember the old www.scoopthis.com website. hehehe.)

[molson]

Is www.scoopthis.com making a comeback!?!?!?!?!?!

I can't wait.

(that is, if you guys still remember the old www.scoopthis.com website. hehehe.)

Aw shit yo.

Is the old stuff still out there anywhere?

Wrestling stuff on the internet was a very exciting thing in the late 90s, it was as responsible for the boom as anything, and this just reminded me how fun it was to find stuff like this back then.

[JonInMiddleGA]

A 12-man tag X Division World Cup match to open Victory Road tonight.
Spotastic. Part lucha, part indy showcase, kind of like watching ROH meets ECWA meets DG meets CMLL meets NWA Hammerlock.

Fun though.

[DeToxRox]

Er .. uh .. hmm .. Russo?

[JonInMiddleGA]

F'n asinine booking in the title match.

And I'm not talking about whether they turn Joe heel or Booker face or anything in between.

What irritates the blind fuck out of me with this is that they defied wrestling logic, the "rules" if you will, by attempting to have the two replacement refs call Joe off without stopping the match first. If they're calling for a stoppage because Booker is unable to defend himself then why isn't the match stopped for that reason? At no time did anyone call for the bell or do anything. I've been watching for close to 40 years and best I can figure, the bell is sort of the universal standard for, you know, ENDING A FUCKING MATCH.

I know, I know, "suspension of disbelief" and all that. Which is fine with me ... except when you do something stupid that makes playing along damned near impossible.

[Toddzilla]

F'n asinine booking in the title match.

And I'm not talking about whether they turn Joe heel or Booker face or anything in between.

What irritates the blind fuck out of me with this is that they defied wrestling logic, the "rules" if you will, by attempting to have the two replacement refs call Joe off without stopping the match first. If they're calling for a stoppage because Booker is unable to defend himself then why isn't the match stopped for that reason? At no time did anyone call for the bell or do anything. I've been watching for close to 40 years and best I can figure, the bell is sort of the universal standard for, you know, ENDING A FUCKING MATCH.

I know, I know, "suspension of disbelief" and all that. Which is fine with me ... except when you do something stupid that makes playing along damned near impossible.QFMFT :banghead: :rant: :banghead: :rant: :banghead:

[molson]

It's amazing how much better a wrestling show can look with a hot crowd. I mean obviously, you need to give them something to be excited about, but a good crowd can can really bring up even a mediocre segment. This RAW crowd is all hopped up on something or other.

[DeToxRox]

Love this Raw so far. Punk looks good and will retain Sunday I believe with how this Batista/Kane angle is progressing. The kids are getting the ball and running with it. The Rhoads/Orton promo on Duggan was great, and Kingston keeps improving, so I've enjoyed the change of pace.

Also, my guess is Kane's got his mask in that bag, and will be remasking soon.

[duckman]

Just a hunch, but I think Austin is coming back to RAW as the GM/enforcer role again.

[RawIsDan]

Another week where I felt it was a good show. Well, except for the JBL/Cena car bit at the end. Santino loosing to Beth was pulled off well and his pepsi line to Kane about Punk was great.

[Noop]

Last night was good. Although I don't like John Cena, I think his gimmick is played out but the Jamaican wrestling put on a great match.

[Flasch186]

santino's pepsi line was best line since Piper's find a driver line. Funny Santino was involved in two of the best lines ive heard in months.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Lordy. Lance Hoyt is now Lance Rock? Why not just call him Lance Jobber?

And, even the lower card they can't get simple stuff right in the Land of Misfit Booking.
Knockouts battle royal for a title shot, final three are Gail & both of the Beautiful People. With a face champ the fairly obvious result is going to be a heel winner so why not have a little fun with it? Instead of having Gail eliminate one before losing to the other, why not have Gail just hop the top rope & eliminate herself, leaving the pair she hates to figure out who gets the title shot? It would have been fun for the crowd, they could probably have handled it well enough to make a few minutes of mildly entertaining TV out of it and could have still managed to avoid anything that would have required a longterm dissension storyline.

But noooooooo, the village idiots go the standard route.

[DeToxRox]

Anyone watching the GAB? Was the Cena/JBL match as embarrassing as it reads?

It was wrestlecrap worthy, that is for sure. So far, not a bad PPV. Liked Punk/Batista, as Punk looked credible in the ring and a double DQ didn't hurt him. And frankly as long as Punk left with the belt I didn't care what happened.

Jericho/HBK had a good match with a great story. Definetly setting up to an epic at SummerSlam in my opinion. Can't wait for that

[JonInMiddleGA]

Forgot all about GAB. Saw the bloodbath recap on Jericho/HBK on Raw.

And just for the heck of it, the Phoenix/Santino storyline is basically the same one that's been going on in NWA-Anarchy for the past several months (not that it's entirely original in the first place) with ex-WWE developmental Melissa Coates and an old hand named Brody Ray Chase. Just kind of funny to see the same set up running in the big leagues.

[molson]

And just for the heck of it, the Phoenix/Santino storyline is basically the same one that's been going on in NWA-Anarchy for the past several months (not that it's entirely original in the first place) with ex-WWE developmental Melissa Coates and an old hand named Brody Ray Chase. Just kind of funny to see the same set up running in the big leagues.

Wherever the hell it comes from, Santino will make it pure gold.

And without knowing anything about NWA-Anarchy, I certainly prefer that the WWE take storylines from indy promotions, rather than re-do stuff they did themselves in the last couple years. There's probably a wealth of great stuff going on out there in smaller promotions that I don't have access to, I'd love to see the WWE mine it for good ideas.

[RawIsDan]

I thought Santino's facial expressions were great. Funny segment as usual when he's involved. Good to see D'lo back.

[Flasch186]

Santino is the best thing WWE has going IMO. Jericho turning heel could be helpful but Stone Cold jackass being his protege is gonna hurt him. Once again the girls simply are bad wrestlers and while Mickie James seems to be the best in the bunch her horrible acting and huge belly is killing me! Seeing CM Punk get more comfortable with the mic is helping and I hope he continues to develop, Cena's 2 person finisher was pretty impressive considering his shoulder surgery just a little while ago. all in all though wrestling is certainly searching for something to, ahem, save them.

[Noop]

Hey man Kelly Kelly keep me entertained when we was wrestling last night. She is hot.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Seeing CM Punk get more comfortable with the mic is helping and I hope he continues to develop

Just curious (since you brought it up) ... did you get the feeling that his whole bit was scripted? Don't get me wrong, I know there's a ton of scripted stuff over there, it just struck me last night how scripted that bit felt. His last line with JBL was a good one IMO and I thought he hit the mark with it well enough, but somehow I had this feeling he was trying to recite his lines more than I usually get with WWE guys.

And a question for you or anybody who is more familiar with Punk's pre-WWE work, how were his mic skills during that time & how much was likely scripted vs outlined with him freestyling the actual lines?

[DeToxRox]

Just curious (since you brought it up) ... did you get the feeling that his whole bit was scripted? Don't get me wrong, I know there's a ton of scripted stuff over there, it just struck me last night how scripted that bit felt. His last line with JBL was a good one IMO and I thought he hit the mark with it well enough, but somehow I had this feeling he was trying to recite his lines more than I usually get with WWE guys.

And a question for you or anybody who is more familiar with Punk's pre-WWE work, how were his mic skills during that time & how much was likely scripted vs outlined with him freestyling the actual lines?

Punk was the best guy on the mic in the indy's. Period. His stuff vs Raven was absolutely out of this world. The Summer of Punk era of ROH was the best fucking thing ever. When he said he signed with WWE, then won the title, and signed his contract on the ROH Title was just phenominal. Problem is he a natural heel, forced to be a face.

Here is a great CM Punk IWA-MS promo against the ICP Juggalos.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=uQ3c884VjXc

[Maple Leafs]

Any other good Punk clips on youtube (mic or ring)? I know he's an indy legend, but so far I'm just not seeing it in WWE. Everything he does looks so forced and scripted.

[molson]

Any other good Punk clips on youtube (mic or ring)? I know he's an indy legend, but so far I'm just not seeing it in WWE. Everything he does looks so forced and scripted.

And the Punk die-hards would tell you that's the WWE's fault. I think it's a little of both. It's a very different thing to play a character in an indy v. WWE environment, and sometimes talent just doesn't translate across that.

And the WWE uses more scripts (I think almost everything is scripted down to the word). Performing from a script is a difficult skill, and you never know what indy guy who is used to having free reign is going to handle that well. And you never really know which guys are REALLY good at it, because everyone assumes that the people who come across smoothly aren't working from a script (I've heard people allege that Cena isn't required to work from the script - I'd guess that he's just really good at delivering scripted lines)

Most people think the WWE should use less scripts, and maybe that's true, but I understand why they do it that way. There's a different need for control when you're writing for something that's going to be mass-produced - deviations can really screw you up more than they would in a 500-seat venue with no TV.

[Schmidty]

Mickie James seems to be the best in the bunch her horrible acting and huge belly is killing me!

Dude. You have mental issues. Huge belly?

http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/6913/facepalmzl3.jpg

[Flasch186]

well maybe its the way she seems to push it out...HOWEVER a quick search brought up some nudes and I now have the ultimate respect for her and retract everything...Girl deserves a golden globe or something.

[Schmidty]

well maybe its the way she seems to push it out...HOWEVER a quick search brought up some nudes and I now have the ultimate respect for her and retract everything...Girl deserves a golden globe or something.

PM K THANKS

[JonInMiddleGA]

And the WWE uses more scripts (I think almost everything is scripted down to the word). Performing from a script is a difficult skill, and you never know what indy guy who is used to having free reign is going to handle that well. And you never really know which guys are REALLY good at it, because everyone assumes that the people who come across smoothly aren't working from a script (I've heard people allege that Cena isn't required to work from the script - I'd guess that he's just really good at delivering scripted lines)


Right around (at?) his retirement I recall Flair commenting on how much he was scripted & that's when I realized that it was done even more than I thought (and I already thought it was pretty high).

And it's certainly not just the WWE, although I know you know that, just saying. The difference when, for example, Samoa Joe is working from a script versus an outline is pretty obvious to me I think. He's horrible on a script that goes beyond a couple of specific lines but not bad when he's allowed to work his way through an outline.

[Flasch186]

PM K THANKS

Just google images and it was pretty much right at the top

[DeToxRox]

Here is some FIP CM Punk fun vs Homicide inside a strip club:

YouTube - CM Punk vs. Homicide FIP Fall Count Anywhere (http://youtube.com/watch?v=QFFPfv3h4LY)

Here is Punk pwning some dumb bitch (literally)

YouTube - CM Punk and the invisible microphone (http://youtube.com/watch?v=rdRo9JsfBZM&feature=related)

Good Punk tribute:

YouTube - cm punk tribue (http://youtube.com/watch?v=82jwvJhM-WA)

[DeToxRox]

Punk has done some of my favorite stuff in wrestling, such as tieing up Raven to the ropes when he was known to be in AA and dousting him with beer, only to see Tommy Dreamer make the save and along with Raven destroy Punk and tie him up to the ropes and force him to drink beer. That entire feud was brutal. Then add in Punk winning the title while under a WWE contract and having a summer long reign of terror, as well as a brutal feud with Jimmy Rave and you have some amazing moments.

What you need to know about Punk in IWA-MS, ROH, etc, is that he was always told he was too "WWE" for the indy's, yet he could go with anyone, but he worked such a heel style that he slowed matches down and didn't try killing himself (to his credit). When needed though he's been in barbed wire, through tables, had chairs dented over his skull, etc.

He is not a face though. When he finally is a heel in the E, you'll see how amazing he can be

[DeToxRox]

Er um .. from SD! spoilers ..

*The Great Khali (with the returning Ranjin Singh)won a Battle Royal to earn a Summerslam title shot. Also in the match were Ken Kennedy, Umaga and Big Show. The Order of elimination is MVP, Umaga, Kennedy, Show, and Hardy. Triple H comes out and has a staredown with Khali, but Singh tells Khali to leave the ring and he does.

[saldana]

Er um .. from SD! spoilers ..

*The Great Khali (with the returning Ranjin Singh)won a Battle Royal to earn a Summerslam title shot. Also in the match were Ken Kennedy, Umaga and Big Show. The Order of elimination is MVP, Umaga, Kennedy, Show, and Hardy. Triple H comes out and has a staredown with Khali, but Singh tells Khali to leave the ring and he does.

refresh my memory, is singh the guy that used to come out with Dhavari and yell about mistreatment of arabs, even though he was from detroit

[Neon_Chaos]

refresh my memory, is singh the guy that used to come out with Dhavari and yell about mistreatment of arabs, even though he was from detroit

Nope, that was Muhammad Hassan. His entire gimmick was based on being an Arab-American and how the US of A continues to treat arab-americans as 2nd-class citizens / racism against arab americans.

Ranjin Singh is Great Khali's translator.

[DeToxRox]

LMAO!

And the new GM of Raw is ... MISTERR MIKE ADAMLE!

[Noop]

I was hoping for it to be Michael Cole kinda like Keisar Soze.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Now I really think that Jarrett/Mantel/Russo/et al are booking Raw.

[DeToxRox]

Adamle as GM can continue the anarchy storyline as no one will respect him and do as they wish. It will be awesome. He is like Michael from the Office.

[Maple Leafs]

I'm guessing the dead silence/smattered boos that met the announcement aren't a good sign for this angle.

[molson]

I like the idea of a "suit" GM that nobody respects, it's a little against the grain. They shouldn't have spent all show hyping that "mystery" though.

[RawIsDan]

I'm guessing the dead silence/smattered boos that met the announcement aren't a good sign for this angle.

Not surprising. I'd guess most don't know who he is and were expecting a bigger name to come out.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It could be awesome if the role were being played by someone who could act or otherwise had any charisma (even anti-charisma) on screen.

Fixed that for you ;)

Instead, Adamle is pretty much being booed not for his character but for himself.
It's not "we hate you (in character)" heat, it's "get off my TV" heat, and that isn't often a good situation.

[molson]

Instead, Adamle is pretty much being booed not for his character but for himself.
It's not "we hate you (in character)" heat, it's "get off my TV" heat, and that isn't often a good situation.

This disctinction is often made, but I'm not sure "we hate you (in character) heat" exists any more. When was the last time you boo'd a wrestler because of his dastardly deeds?

Making a heel is extremely difficult these days. They have to be disliked by the fans outside of the character, otherwise the fans will just cheer them if they're doing their job well. WCW had no clue how to make a heel. WWF is getting better at it - Edge, Orton, even Khali, ect. all give off a real-life "prick" vibe that allows fans to actually dislike the the people behind the character. (and even smarky fans on internet message boards actually believe that Orton is the asshole who he portrays) That's who they're booing, not the fact that they're big cheaters.

[saldana]

all i know is, if i had actually fought to stay awake last night for the mike adamle annoucement, i would have driven to CT today to punch someone.

[Deattribution]

This disctinction is often made, but I'm not sure "we hate you (in character) heat" exists any more. When was the last time you boo'd a wrestler because of his dastardly deeds?

Making a heel is extremely difficult these days. They have to be disliked by the fans outside of the character, otherwise the fans will just cheer them if they're doing their job well. WCW had no clue how to make a heel. WWF is getting better at it - Edge, Orton, even Khali, ect. all give off a real-life "prick" vibe that allows fans to actually dislike the the people behind the character. (and even smarky fans on internet message boards actually believe that Orton is the asshole who he portrays) That's who they're booing, not the fact that they're big cheaters.

I disagree, Edge is a perfect example of a heel getting heel heat, because besides the Matt Hardy thing, nobody even knows much of anything about his real personality (which could be said about alot of wrestlers). He's just a ton of fun to watch, and hits a home run with mostly everything he's given. Orton isn't disliked because he gives off a real life prick vibe, he's just effin boring and plodding when he gets the mic. Real heels are fewer and further between, but it's because of the way they are booked and the talent they have.

[molson]

I disagree, Edge is a perfect example of a heel getting heel heat, because besides the Matt Hardy thing, nobody even knows much of anything about his real personality (which could be said about alot of wrestlers). He's just a ton of fun to watch, and hits a home run with mostly everything he's given. Orton isn't disliked because he gives off a real life prick vibe, he's just effin boring and plodding when he gets the mic. Real heels are fewer and further between, but it's because of the way they are booked and the talent they have.

Edge is getting the closest thing to real heel heat I've seen in years, he's tremendous. But the WWE LOVED the fact that the Hardy/Lita stuff went public because it gave fans a real-life reason to dislike him - though I think I could concede that he really doesn't need it anymore. (But note that the WWE has partnered him with one of the most legitimately disliked people in the entire company - Vicki Guerrero)

I would disagree on Orton, he's wrestled plenty of great matches, and many wrestling fans believe the character is his real-life personality. Maybe it's worked, maybe it hasn't, my point is just that the WWE is very calculated and deliberate in trying to create heels - there's no easy answer on how to do it. People can point to something that's worked well in ROH or whatever but this is a different stage and a much more diverse fanbase.

[JonInMiddleGA]

This disctinction is often made, but I'm not sure "we hate you (in character) heat" exists any more. When was the last time you boo'd a wrestler because of his dastardly deeds?

Edge comes to mind pretty quickly. I think his heel response right now (or sometimes facey pop to his heel character) is character based moreso than real-life based.

Jericho in the current HBK feud is another one (although he's heel as much by default there as anything). Santino is another albeit a much enjoyed heel character, Regal could get character heel heat too. Lesser degree example would be Cody Rhodes (although I'm not sure how much heat he gets period), as whatever crowd reaction there is comes from his alignment not him personally. Chavo too I guess.

Outside of the WWE, Ray & Devon right now are getting it from the crowd (after getting X-Pac heat for a while), AMW got it during the feud with Styles/Daniels. And LAX definitely got it from me for a while too (although I enjoy the hell out of Homicide in the ring when he brings his work boots).

Granted, I'm not a great example. I don't always react like a complete smark to characters, some heels I will jeer their character even though I really enjoy the person's work, others I'll cheer in spite of their heelishness because I'm really trying to give go away heat to their Facey McFace opponent.

I guess that comes from having at least a little smarkish understanding of how guys playing heels sometimes need to draw heel heat to be effective no matter how much some of us want to cheer them for their talent while others can get away with being a smark favorite as long as the majority of the marks are booing approporiately. Heck, I've known several indy guys over the years to ask smarks privately not to cheer them since it was killing their character. So there are times when I'll respect that even though I'm privately cheering their effort/performance.

Another thing I kind of watch on this score is my son, who has a real hybrid reaction to different guys. Certain workers (AJ & Cage come to mind) will get face pops from him regardless of their alignment. Others he's got X-Pac heat for no matter their alignment (pretty much anybody with a dead zero workrate, or as he calls them "punch-kick-punch" guys). But if a heel gets a heelish response from him, that's generally legit heel heat.

[Deattribution]

Edge is getting the closest thing to real heel heat I've seen in years, he's tremendous. But the WWE LOVED the fact that the Hardy/Lita stuff went public because it gave fans a real-life reason to dislike him - though I think I could concede that he really doesn't need it anymore. (But note that the WWE has partnered him with one of the most legitimately disliked people in the entire company - Vicki Guerrero)

I would disagree on Orton, he's wrestled plenty of great matches, and many wrestling fans believe the character is his real-life personality. Maybe it's worked, maybe it hasn't, my point is just that the WWE is very calculated and deliberate in trying to create heels - there's no easy answer on how to do it. People can point to something that's worked well in ROH or whatever but this is a different stage and a much more diverse fanbase.

WWE has too much top talent that is ambiguous, John Cena is... well, John Cena... Triple H is the 'Game' which just means he's a guy who runs around saying he's the best (much like Cena). Randy Orton isn't the Legend Killer anymore (which was what built his momentum) he's just Randy Orton, a guy who thinks he should have the title (the Game lite). They're essentially all the same except Orton gets to play the whipping boy. And he doesn't get to play it like Edge, who plays an old school heel that does anything he can to stay at the top cheating every chance he gets.

Orton is a great wrestler, but he'll never be a great heel until he's given something that is actually interesting. He's portrayed as a cutting-edge ( no pun intended) heel who is an elite wrestler but nobody could tell me how many wins he's gotten over Triple H, Cena, Undertaker ect. because nobody cares. Much like what they think of Orton. He's suppose to be hated because he's a prick, but the only thing I can remember him doing in the last year is kicking Cena's dad in the head. That's it.

And as far as other heels, by the time they reach the top they've been squashed in every way possible, including silly stuff like 5 of them vs 1 top guy matches.

[Maple Leafs]

I don't think it's really that hard to get heel heat these days, and all the guys listed above are good examples of how it can be done.

The key is that you have to be willing to play a real heel, and not a "cool" heel in the mode that Nash, Hall and HHH have perfected. For a while, every heel seemed to be in business for themselves. Now with guys like Edge and Orton, we're seeing it being done the right way again.

[RawIsDan]

For those Santino fans who haven't checked his video's out. I'd advised you give them a view. The guy is a riot.

WWE: Superstars > Raw > Santino Marella > Videos > Santino's Casa (http://www.wwe.com/superstars/raw/santinomarella/videos/santinoscasa/)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Note to WWE creative ... don't let Matt Hardy talk.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, lots of little tidbit info out there in the past few days it seems.

-- The strangest one might be the announcement of the latest addition (http://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.php?id=32441&p=1) to the WWE creative team: Freddie Prinze, Jr.

-- Both Tomko & Dustin Rhodes are gone from TNA, Rhodes reportedly because they had nothing for him to do and Tomko allegedly in part because of some attitude issues.

-- Kevin Nash reportedly walked out of last night's Impact taping because he didn't like the finish but has apparently returned today with cooler heads prevailing.

-- A trailer/promo for the proposed Kurt Angle reality show is floating around the web (http://www.horizonent.tv/screening_area/the_real_angle.html.) and includes him talking about the WWE and admitting to an extramarital affair.

[molson]

Okay, lots of little tidbit info out there in the past few days it seems.

-- The strangest one might be the announcement of the latest addition (http://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.php?id=32441&p=1) to the WWE creative team: Freddie Prinze, Jr.



I was SO sure that was some kind of fake-news experiment by some trashy wrestling news site. Wow. Hey, maybe he'll be good. Just surreal though.

It's been a while since we've seen Goldust. It seems like the WWE thing to do to have some kind of mini-family angle with Cody, especially with Dusty under contract also.

[Schmidty]

Note to WWE creative ... don't let Matt Hardy talk.

Or Batista. Or Jeff Hardy. Or Lance Cade. Or Cody Rhodes. Or Kane. Or CM Punk. Or....a lot of other guys. If Bobby Lashley was still around, he'd top the list.

Seriously, I'm an admitted Batista "hater", but he is horrible. When he was on this week's RAW talking to Cena, he couldn't finish a sentence without stuttering or sounding like a roided-up robot. Damn, I dislike that guy.

[RawIsDan]

Actually, I don't think Punk is bad on the mic at all.

It's too bad they let booker go otherwise they could grab dusty and reunite them. They were great together.

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[duckman]

This is interesting:

The following statement, buried in WWE's quarterly stock filing, could have major future ramifications.

"Levy et al. On July 24, 2008, we were served with a summons from three of our former talent purporting to be on behalf of themselves and a class of similarly situated persons. The lawsuit alleges breach of contract and unjust enrichment arising from our treating them as independent contractors rather than employees, which the plaintiffs allege is an erroneous classification. We have not formally responded to the suit but intend to deny any liability for claims asserted against us and to defend vigorously against the suit."The Levy being mentioned here is Scott "Raven" Levy who is apparently challenging WWE's classification of wrestlers. WWE classifies its wrestlers as "independent contractors" which allows them to not have to pay benefits and do other things that they otherwise would have to do for "employees." This has been a topic that has been debated for years. Some think WWE is grievously at fault while others think they do just enough to get away with it. If the court sides with Levy, it would lead to major financial ramifications for WWE.

Credit: WrestlingObserver.com

hxxp://www.411mania.com/wrestling/news/82335/Raven-Lawsuit-Challenges-WWE//s-Wrestler-Classification.htm

[JonInMiddleGA]

TNA PPV crowd in Trenton is being brutal to Consequences Creed, cheering Petey Williams hard and booing Creed. Given how reactive TNA is reportedly being to single event reactions I'm afraid they'll kill what was supposed to be a push for Creed. I think they sort of monster push he was rumored to be headed for is premature but I don't want one crowd to kill the guy's career either. He's a good kid, smart & mature for his age (wouldn't sign his TNA contract unless they agreed to let him finish his last course work & graduate college), and if he's handled right he can be a decent part of the roster for a number of years.

edit to add: "Fire Russo" chant coming toward the end of the Lethal/Sonjay match.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Styles beats Angle, Sting lays out AJ afterwards.

Looks like Russo won the argument & we'll get another attempt to turn Sting heel.

[Noop]

This PPV has been okay.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Well, didn't see that finish coming.

Of course, since it appears that Styles & Angle/Trigg will remain engaged for a while, looks like we're going to end up with Joe being the only guy under 40 in the title picture.

[DeToxRox]

Who does Joe even have to face now?

Roode and Storm are tag champs
Angle is presumably taking time off
Styles and Sting look to have some angle going
Jarrett and Booker look to have some angle going
Tomko got canned
So that leaves .. Nash?

[molson]

LOL at guys like Tomko that get fired for "bad attitude", as if there's anywhere else for him to work.

I also saw that Chris Harris got cut loose from WWE after two appearances. His demise was related to fast food rather than bad attitude.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Who does Joe even have to face now?

Roode and Storm are tag champs
Angle is presumably taking time off
Styles and Sting look to have some angle going
Jarrett and Booker look to have some angle going
Tomko got canned
So that leaves .. Nash?

Next month seems like Joe & Jarrett (and maybe Nash) vs Booker & Sting (& ?)
Nash turns (which I'm convinced will happen, to reunite the Wolfpack).

October leads to Joe vs Sting for the title with Sting winning while Jarrett takes out Nash (or Booker), with probably Cage (or maybe Matt Morgan) taking care of the 3rd heel.

November or December leads to Jarrett taking the title from Sting (as his contract winds down & he heads toward retirement) and retaining it against Booker as Sting probably comes to his senses to retire as a face.

By then we'll have finished the combinations of Angle/Styles/Trigg and we can go into the new year with Angle taking the belt off of Jarrett.

[JonInMiddleGA]

LOL at guys like Tomko that get fired for "bad attitude", as if there's anywhere else for him to work.

Actually it seems as though his Japan work was a big part of the issue for TNA.
And Tomko seems to have preferred it to TNA at the moment.

[molson]

Actually it seems as though his Japan work was a big part of the issue for TNA.
And Tomko seems to have preferred it to TNA at the moment.

I've never seen anything remotely redeeming about his work in the ring, but if he can make a living there, good for him.

[SnDvls]

ROH is having a buy 3 get 1 free DVD sale....what 4 DVDs would you all recomend. I have never seen a ROH show living in AZ.

[DeToxRox]

ROH is having a buy 3 get 1 free DVD sale....what 4 DVDs would you all recomend. I have never seen a ROH show living in AZ.

Supercard of Honor III
Better Than Our Best
Joe vs Punk II
Manhattan Mayhem

[chrisj]

"Levy et al. On July 24, 2008, we were served with a summons from three of our former talent purporting to be on behalf of themselves and a class of similarly situated persons. The lawsuit alleges breach of contract and unjust enrichment arising from our treating them as independent contractors rather than employees, which the plaintiffs allege is an erroneous classification. We have not formally responded to the suit but intend to deny any liability for claims asserted against us and to defend vigorously against the suit."The Levy being mentioned here is Scott "Raven" Levy who is apparently challenging WWE's classification of wrestlers. WWE classifies its wrestlers as "independent contractors" which allows them to not have to pay benefits and do other things that they otherwise would have to do for "employees." This has been a topic that has been debated for years. Some think WWE is grievously at fault while others think they do just enough to get away with it. If the court sides with Levy, it would lead to major financial ramifications for WWE.

So why would Levy, etc sue the WWE about this? This seems like something the IRS/CRA would be more interested in. And while I don't know how often the IRS would look at this, I am confident that the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) has audited the WWE about this in the past.

I don't know what the US rules are - but in Canada they look at four factors (I assume the US is similar):

- Control
- Ownership of tools
- Chance of profit / risk of loss
- Integration

I think in each of these areas, there are arguements for/against the treatment of the wrestlers as independent contractors. But honestly, I think Levy, etc are right - the wrestlers should likely be employees.

With that being said, why would they want to be employees? There are likely some better tax planning opportunities if they were independent contractors (again, in Canada), so unless the rules are significantly different in the states... ?

[Neon_Chaos]

OH MY GOD!

IT'S BACK!

SCOOPTHIS ARCHIVES!

THEY'RE BACK!

*cry*

hxxp://www.scoopthis.com/

[Neon_Chaos]

One of the best articles ever.

hxxp://www.scoopthis.com/pages/article.cgi?file=articles/wrestling/032_wwfsatan.htm

[JonInMiddleGA]

tnawrestlingnews.com is reporting (and I imagine others are as well) that Mick Foley has reached an agreement with TNA.

[Flasch186]

wow, I like Mick when he plays Cactus Jack...

[molson]

Wow - I wonder what went down between Foley and Vince. Or maybe he just wants a full-time paycheck but doesn't want to travel.

I look at TNA's roster and it just looks like they have more than enough to be competitive with the WWE. Yet they still come off as so bush league and wacky. They just need the right direction.

[TazFTW]

So I have ESPNEWS in the background and I hear the following, "I'm JW Stewart and sitting next to me is Jonathan Coachman." :eek:

I knew he did pbp for some college football games but I had no idea ESPN hired him. He's pretty reserved doing sports highlights.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Charlie Haas is almost certainly about to get his ass beat ... but his JBL imitation was pretty funny.
Having him dress to the part, right down to the trunks & boots, was a great finish to the bit.
And a win (even by countout) was an unexpected bonus.

[Comey]

Coach is a good newsman with a pretty diverse background. WWE probably served him well for him being able to live in the moment and still be able to do his job well.

Charlie Haas, by the way, appears to be McMahon's favorite whipping boy. It is said that McMahon *hates* Haas, but likes to keep him around because he can put him through whatever he wants.

[Flasch186]

why "hates"?

[Comey]

I've read that McMahon finds Charlie Haas to be the most boring person he's ever had in the ring, or something. His style is like watching paint dry (that's a direct quote).

[molson]

Dibiase/Rhodes/Manu sure didn't inherent their fathers' ring presence. Those guys are boring as hell.

Charisma is such a rare quality these days. It's strange - in the 80s WWF, EVERYONE had it. Everyone was larger than life. A few weeks ago on RAW, Jim Duggan came out and cut a promo that was better than what 95% of the current guys can do (and he was never considered a great mic guy even in his prime).

Why is everyone today so bland? TNA and the indies too.

[Neon_Chaos]

Dibiase/Rhodes/Manu sure didn't inherent their fathers' ring presence. Those guys are boring as hell.

Charisma is such a rare quality these days. It's strange - in the 80s WWF, EVERYONE had it. Everyone was larger than life. A few weeks ago on RAW, Jim Duggan came out and cut a promo that was better than what 95% of the current guys can do (and he was never considered a great mic guy even in his prime).

Why is everyone today so bland? TNA and the indies too.

I blame it on scriptwriters.

Back in the day, they'd just get bullet points and be able to let their personalities shine through.

Now? It's all cookie-cutter scripts.

[bulletsponge]

I blame it on scriptwriters.

Back in the day, they'd just get bullet points and be able to let their personalities shine through.

Now? It's all cookie-cutter scripts.

+1

[JonInMiddleGA]

Why is everyone today so bland? TNA and the indies too.

While the aforementioned scripts are certainly one of the main reasons, there's another factor that gets overlooked more than it should. That would be the reality that most of the workers today haven't spent nearly as much time in the ring or in the studio as their predecessors.

In decades past, many workers were going 200+ nights a year. Today, most indy guys are lucky if they can find 100 dates that even pay enough to cover expenses. So the relative scarcity of shows with a lack of local TV -- largely gone are the days of shows being taped for individual markets, when places like Memphis, Nashville, Knoxville, and Chattanooga all had their own TV, each getting their own promos, etc -- and you have a situation where today's workers simply haven't spent nearly as much time on the mic. And as bad as a lot of them are, they aren't likely to get many opportunities to get better, so it'll probably only get worse as time goes on.

[Flasch186]

If WWE were smart they'd train in this dept. as well as the in ring skills...the difference between a Rock and a Shelton Benjamin is their skills on the miggidity miggidity mic ya'll.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The new game TNA Impact video game from Midway (at least the PS2 version) is actually even worse than the reviews & previews had led me to believe.

Average graphics with some truly bizarre gameplay. Haven't seen this many phantom punches and completely unaware wrestlers in a long time. Watching my son play for a bit, I particularly liked watching Booker stand completely still with no reaction at all long enough for Joe to connect with the third swing with a chair. I also liked noticing in the first five minutes that when Angle tossed AJ out of the ring, he actually turned his back to his opponent & stayed in the same position no matter what Styles did until a button was pushed. I think you could have actually gotten back to the ring without Angle even turning around if you kept your fingers off the other buttons while moving. The long distance stationary camera angles that pop up at times are amusing too, it's like playing the game while sitting in the nosebleed section.

This is unbelievably bad. Instead of Impact, I'm thinking they should have called it Maxmium Wretsling.

edit to add: At the moment, I'm watching him win matches in the first chapter of the story mode needing to do little more than a move or two to get his opponent on the ground then stomping him repeatedly until his health is low enough to pin him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

TNA PPV tonight, having one of those WWE bad luck runs I guess.

-- Booker T, scheduled for the main event, not expected to attend due to travel issues getting a flight out of Houston. Daivari questionable for the same reason.

-- James Storm, scheduled for a tag title defense, questionable for tonight after suffering an apparent concussion at a house show last night. Jackie Moore questionable after losing three teeth in a separate incident in the same house show match.

-- Recently signed talent Akira Raijin collapsed during his house show match last night. Condition unclear, some speculation that there may have been a subdural hematoma, possibly pre-existing.

-- Kevin Nash reportedly not backstage (and not scripted for tonight), furthering speculation that he's WWE bound shortly.

-- Rumors have resumed about the condition of Kurt Angle becoming a concern once again.

-- Knockouts Angelina Love, Velvet Sky, ODB, and Salinas all have expiring contracts in the next 30-45 days. Not much concern about ODB & Salinas being poached but definitely concerns that The Beautiful People could be lured by Vince same as Gail Kim was.

Also, some announcement of Mick Foley's debut expected, not clear whether it'll be via video, in person, or what.

[Mota]

edit to add: At the moment, I'm watching him win matches in the first chapter of the story mode needing to do little more than a move or two to get his opponent on the ground then stomping him repeatedly until his health is low enough to pin him.

I'm having a different experience on the 360 version. It's a reversal fest, and really tough to win even at the easiest levels in story mode.

I am a little baffled at the generic movesets that everybody has... seems like the default holds which you use most of the time are virtually the same for every wrestler.

My son does enjoy the game though so I have vowed to play through story mode and unlock as many characters as I can for him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Although I'll be relieved to see the Sonjay/Lethal/Val storyline end (maybe?), they've done a nice job of being creative with this laddermatch. Can't say I've ever seen a guy stood on his head & stuck between the rungs of the ladder then hit with a baseball slide (although Sonjay actually hit the ladder not the head).

One of at least a half dozen different things they've done with the ladders so far tonight.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Crowd is really hating the Trigg/Styles "MMA" match. Chant of "We Want Wrestling" started less than 5 minutes into it.

edit: By round two, the chant has become "This is bull shit"

[SirFozzie]

Apparently the Comcast feed had the "MMA" match replaced mid match by lesbian porn, for about five minutes.

The reviewer I'm reading the review from gave the MMA match 1 star, and the porn 4...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Apparently the Comcast feed had the "MMA" match replaced mid match by lesbian porn, for about five minutes.

Heh. Fits nicely with Don West's comments about Skinimax earlier in the night (when Val celebrated with Sonjay)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Addition by subtraction AFAIC but ...
TNA News: Breaking News: TNA Knockout Quits (http://www.tnawrestlingnews.com/headlines/223454924.shtml)
Shelly "Salinas" Martinez is through with TNA. She quit the company.

It was announced during tonight's No Surrender pay-per-view broadcast that Jacqueline had attacked Salinas backstage. That's the storyline reason for her departure from the company.

Martinez was recently tapped for a role in an Italian film that would have conflicted with her bookings for TNA. Reportedly, she offered to give up the film role if TNA increased her pay, but they refused. As a result, she handed in her notice to the company. Her contract was due to expire next month anyway.

TNA may have tried to get her to come to the pay-per-view and/or TV this week to finish the storyline, but when that didn't happen, they simply said that she was attacked off camera.

[Flasch186]

It seems to me from your posts, that TNA is spinning out of control.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It seems to me from your posts, that TNA is spinning out of control.

Eh, maybe a little more than usual but on the whole it's nothing new I think, just more of the same Russo-Jarrett-Mantell slide.

My son talks about that quite a bit, how much TNA has changed since he's been watching. My gripes would match his pretty well.

-- The X-Division is reduced to an afterthought. It made TNA as much as anything & more than most things.
-- No more AMW, no more Styles/Daniels, no more LowKi.
-- AJ not in the main title picture, MCMG reduced to bottom tier status
-- Match to angle ratio is much lower
-- Too little emphasis on new talent and far far too much emphasis on "other people's talent"

I'd also add too many feuds that we're happy to see end & not enough feuds that we actually enjoy watching.

About the only bright spot in months has been the success of the knockouts and even that seems to be in jeopardy right now. With Gail seemingly gone and The Beautiful People at least possible, all that would be left are Kong, ODB, Roxi, and Taylor. That's basically half strength, and they'll either have to reload quickly or watch it grow stale in a hurry.

I might give them credit for getting Matt Morgan over a little bit (although he's not my cup of tea) and I believe making Tomko rise above cringeworthy deserves some praise too (although we see how that worked out).

Bottom line is that there's nobody booking anything that ought to be. The company has pretty much soured from the top down, as it's run by an idiot and booked by incompetents. They desperately need to take a look at WCW and see how that formula turns out.

edit to add: The irony of my complaints is that they've reportedly gone from being in the red to being in the black. But they've also changed the business model quite a bit over that time. I can't help but think that the profit would be higher if they actually, you know, managed to not suck when they're most visible.

[DeToxRox]

TNA has done so much awful booking in the past, it is finally coming to bite them.

Joe vs Sting is a match people want to see, except they're trying to make it Face vs Face and only giving it 3 weeks of build, which is retarded because Sting is at the point where everyone will cheer him, so now Joe is going to be boo'd for the most part.

LAX was given a huge push, and now have jobbed out two PPV's in a row, which is fine, because I like Beer Money, but now there are no teams who can really feud with them with any credibility left. MCMG have been start/stopped pushed then anyone I remember.

Abyss is the new Kane. He is a far better worker, but he has been booked so bad no one cares because you know he will lose no matter what.

Jay Lethal and Sonjay Dutt were put in the worst angle. Ever. And now I am sure it will continue with how their match ended.

Worst off, Christian, if you believe internet reports, is likely to go back to WWE when his deal is up mainly because why wallow in the midcard in TNA when you can have a run on top in WWE for a few months, make a few huge PPV bonuses, and then at least make more money midcarding there?

One last note ... Sting is about to headline this 3rd straight BFG without ever wrestling on a house show.

[Noop]

I thought the show last night was good. I really am appreciation women wrestling watching TNA because some of them are very good. TNA was much better off with the new guys oppose to bringing in the WWE cast offs. Christian won't ever amount to any in the WWE so I doubt he goes back but then again who knows.

[DeToxRox]

I thought the show last night was good. I really am appreciation women wrestling watching TNA because some of them are very good. TNA was much better off with the new guys oppose to bringing in the WWE cast offs. Christian won't ever amount to any in the WWE so I doubt he goes back but then again who knows.

It makes sense he'd go back, as for one, it's a different climate there now since he left. Smaller guys are getting pushed more, and I am sure he noticed when CM Punk was World Champ, he's the same size as Christian.

Christian is an established WWE name with solid work ability and amazing mic skills. I would suspect him coming back, especially with these rash of injuries WWE has had in the last year plus to main eventers (Cena twice, Edge, HBK, Orton, HHH, Kennedy, etc) that having someone who you know will get over and can headline if needed is a plus.

Remember, before he left a lot of people were clamoring for a Cena/Christian feud, but he had the carpet pulled out from under him on that one.

As far as the Knockouts go, last night they looked awful. That Knockouts title match was painful to watch, and ODB vs Kong was way too dangerous because they looked really sloppy last night.

[DeToxRox]

Story is a brewing that Jeff Hardy may've had his third strike with an incident at an airport per Mike Johnson on PWI.


SERIOUS ISSUE FOR TOP WWE STAR
by Mike Johnson @ 7:06 PM on 9/17/2008

We were told earlier in the day that there was an issue with Jeff Hardy at the Nashville International Airport as he was heading home today from last night's Smackdown taping.

We are still triple sourcing the details because we want to be 100% correct before we go with this story. Watch the site for further updates.

We'll see tonight I assume.

[Noop]

Damn what is Jeff's problem? He is beginning to remind me of one of my workers in TEW, every single time I want to really give him a serious push he gets some backstage incident.

[Noop]

It makes sense he'd go back, as for one, it's a different climate there now since he left. Smaller guys are getting pushed more, and I am sure he noticed when CM Punk was World Champ, he's the same size as Christian.

Christian is an established WWE name with solid work ability and amazing mic skills. I would suspect him coming back, especially with these rash of injuries WWE has had in the last year plus to main eventers (Cena twice, Edge, HBK, Orton, HHH, Kennedy, etc) that having someone who you know will get over and can headline if needed is a plus.

Remember, before he left a lot of people were clamoring for a Cena/Christian feud, but he had the carpet pulled out from under him on that one.

As far as the Knockouts go, last night they looked awful. That Knockouts title match was painful to watch, and ODB vs Kong was way too dangerous because they looked really sloppy last night.

CM Punk got screwed out of the World Title and was given a pretty sorry run as champion. The only person he beat was JBL and JBL is basically the jobber to the stars. Christian would be regulated to midcard duty with maybe a run at the US/Intercontinental title. That's just my opinion though I am trying to catch up with all that I have missed while I was away.(Few years I stopped watching.)

As for the knockouts I thought they did good because usually I could careless about women wrestling and I was actually enjoying their matches. I have no expectations so to me it came out good.

[PilotMan]

I saw Jeff Hardy at LaGuardia on Friday. He was by himself, and pretty much looked just like he does on TV, no shades, hat. I didn't see anyone else that recognized him, and would have said hi if I wasn't on the phone at the time.

[Maple Leafs]

So, how long until Kimbo Slice is in the WWE?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Ya gotta like a running Canadian Destroyer.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Can't tell much about the size of the crowd for TNA's Bound For Glory tonight but they seem pretty into it at least. Even managed to get 'em to face pop & chant and stuff for Creed.

[JonInMiddleGA]

My goodness Mongo looks rough.

[Tigercat]

Mongo looked out of shape 10 years ago, I can't imagine how bad he looks now.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mongo looks like a large pasty doughboy. They had him slow count several times during the night, finally decided it wasn't a gimmick he just didn't seem to have all the neurons firing in sequence.

At one point (during a no DQ Monster's Ball match) he prevented the use of the bag of thumbtacks. Later, when Hernandez couldn't get the same bag open, Mongo helps him untie it.

Nice to see the Dudleys bust out the flaming tables spot though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Mr Socko !