Pro Wrestling Discussion Thread **Spoilers Possible**

[Mota]

Everyone keeps saying it was a squash but it wasn’t. The road agent instruction “Keep strong” definitely was in there because he was very very hurt & wasn’t 100% in moxleys win.

The TEW is strong in you.

[RainMaker]

I think Ospreay is ridiculously good but I just can't get into the choreographed stuff he does sometimes. That match last night was great but the first 2 minutes with one of the Lucha guys just came across silly. I know I'm in the minority on that since the crowd seemed to enjoy it, but it's just so out of place to me and feels unnecessary for such a talented wrestler.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think Ospreay is ridiculously good but I just can't get into the choreographed stuff he does sometimes. That match last night was great but the first 2 minutes with one of the Lucha guys just came across silly. I know I'm in the minority on that since the crowd seemed to enjoy it, but it's just so out of place to me and feels unnecessary for such a talented wrestler.

There are moments where he falls back into Silly Ospreay, I only saw a couple clips from last night and spotted one of those moments myself. But better there than on a bigger stage I guess.

[RainMaker]

What's the deal with him and Omega? Do they legitimately not like each other?

[JonInMiddleGA]

What's the deal with him and Omega? Do they legitimately not like each other?

They either don't care for each other much OR it's been a pretty good work.
In 2022, unless it involves Eddie Kingston, who can be sure?

(I 100% believe Kingston doesn't like Guevara ... but then again, at this point, who does?)

[RainMaker]

I don't think Kingston likes many people which is sort of the fun part about him.

They should also fire Guevara for the statement he just put out. I'm not going to go full-on Cornette with the "maintaining kayfabe" stuff, but come on. Say what you want about WWE, but I can't imagine that would fly during an ongoing feud.

For those who didn't see it, here is his statement:

Sammmy Guevara issued the following to Fightful after our report of the Eddie Kingston suspension. The full context can be seen in the previous article.

"As a professional you communicate things that you don’t want to be said (like other people I’ve been in programs with and have worked with Matt Hardy, Jericho and others) and I did communicate of what I didn’t want to be said in this angle and Eddie didn’t. But Eddie did not do the same and Eddie did not mention to me or the coaches or TK or anyone in AEW what he didn’t want said.

So after Tay’s and my match with Sky Blue and Dante I cut a promo on Eddie insulting Eddie and the fans as a heel. Which I know the thing everyone loves to do is hate Me & Tay so I’m the perfect person to play this ass hole character for Eddie to ultimately beat at All Out. I see what people say online about Eddie and his appearance. (Which anyone who legitimately shames Eddie for how he looks can go to hell, it’s the same people who shame me for being too small) so Sammy Guevara the character I could be the physical person playing that person that Eddie can shut up at All Out.

But Eddie did not do the professional thing and communicate to me, which if he did I never would have said it cause the last thing I want to do is hurt someone for real.

So after the promo I get to the back and Eddie is flipping out yelling “YOU CANT CALL ME FAT” over and over as I’m trying to walk down the stairs in gorilla making a big scene. People get in between us, Eddie try’s to pie face me and he more life touches my face it was weird. And everyone backs everyone up. It was unfortunate cause this promo was on a taped show and easily could have been edited (which they ended up doing anyways) i know this isn’t Eddie’s first time being aggressive and getting out of control backstage. I know he had to do some kind of anger management after this whole thing. This whole thing was very unnecessary but it Is what it is, Live & learn I guess, onto the next we go."

Guevara requested to be quoted directly on the matter.

[JonInMiddleGA]

They should also fire Guevara for the statement he just put out.

It's the sort of shit you get when people who don't have a clue about the business work for people who don't have a clue about the business.

[RainMaker]

It's Russo shit. Like I know it's fake, the deal is that you pretend it's real.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's Russo shit. Like I know it's fake, the deal is that you pretend it's real.

And it's a pretty basis tenet of the entire business.

We know as viewers that "suspension of disbelief" is required. What possible benefit is there to making our end of the bargain MORE difficult?

[RainMaker]

Can someone fill me in on what happened with Ospreay? I don't follow NJPW much, but did years ago before the pandemic. He was a junior heavyweight who just did flippy matches. Talented guy and all, but never imagined him as a heavyweight.

So it seems like he bulked up a lot over the past few years and changed his style. Kind of a hybrid of the flippy stuff with some strong style. Pretty impressive that he can still do the athletic stuff with the added size.

I know I'm late to the party but everything I've seen from him this year is so impressive. He's also not bad on the mic. Again, old news to most of you but was a "wait that's Will Ospreay????" from me.

[hoosierdude]

I second that thought Rainmaker. Surprise to me too.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Can someone fill me in on what happened with Ospreay? I don't follow NJPW much, but did years ago before the pandemic. He was a junior heavyweight who just did flippy matches. Talented guy and all, but never imagined him as a heavyweight.

So it seems like he bulked up a lot over the past few years and changed his style. Kind of a hybrid of the flippy stuff with some strong style. Pretty impressive that he can still do the athletic stuff with the added size.

I know I'm late to the party but everything I've seen from him this year is so impressive. He's also not bad on the mic. Again, old news to most of you but was a "wait that's Will Ospreay????" from me.

His transition to heavyweight was pretty quick. And as he said recently (paraphrasing) "I'm mostly hated for stuff I physically can't even do anymore lol"

[JonInMiddleGA]

CM Punk gonna CM Punk.

That's what happens when a company has zero adult leadership.

{don't worry, if you have no idea what I'm talking about, you'll know by tomorrow if you follow the IWC}

[Toddzilla]

OK, Jon, how much of that was worked? I mean it was def 100% real and legit, but do you think how hard he buried the "EVPs" was at least a little work?

To me, the fact that he name checked Page but not the Bucks or Kenny leads me to believe they want to turn this into an angle. I know, they want to turn *everything* into an angle, but with Tony sitting there eating shit while Punk rants, it just seemed too....real?

[JonInMiddleGA]

OK, Jon, how much of that was worked? I mean it was def 100% real and legit, but do you think how hard he buried the "EVPs" was at least a little work?

To me, the fact that he name checked Page but not the Bucks or Kenny leads me to believe they want to turn this into an angle. I know, they want to turn *everything* into an angle, but with Tony sitting there eating shit while Punk rants, it just seemed too....real?

Most indications are that it was mostly Punk taking advantage of the much richer version of Dixie Carter, a money mark when all is said & done.

Given what we've heard in recent months, it would be on brand for Punk and the EVPs to be almost completely incompatible. I mean, that'd be a LOT of egos to get along in any situation.

The one thing I think isn't getting enough consideration is that Punk may have been motivated by nothing more strongly than a desire to make sure HE was the talk of the next day instead of MJF.

The Chicago crowd being strongly pro-MJF, on the heels of the crowd being roughly 50-50 for Mox, that had to sting the most overblown ego currently under contract anywhere.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The latest dirt sheet info from the post-media altercation in the back is that Punk threw a punch/punches at at least one of the Bucks.

Will be interesting to see how TK handles that, given that he just suspended (legit, not work, apparently) Eddie Kingston for taking a swipe at Guevara.

[molson]

CM Punk gonna CM Punk.



This was pretty funny. Punk is outraged about having to talk about Colt Cobana even though nobody asked him about Colt Cobana.

CM PUNK SHOOTS ON COLT CABANA, ADAM PAGE, AEW EVPS & MORE--- AEW ALL OUT 2022 MEDIA SCRUM - YouTube (https://youtu.be/UBAvjOYD6hs)

[RainMaker]

CM Punk gonna CM Punk.

That's what happens when a company has zero adult leadership.

{don't worry, if you have no idea what I'm talking about, you'll know by tomorrow if you follow the IWC}

Say what you will about HHH, but this promo he cut on Punk was as spot-on as it gets. Punk is always the martyr and while he talks a big game about helping the business, his motives have always been to help himself. He has never elevated anyone he has ever worked with.

That shit worked when he was a really good wrestler in an industry where guys like him didn't normally go mainstream. But now he looks washed in the ring and there are guys who do his antihero gimmick much better.

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The more time passes, the more you realise this promo wasn't entirely wrong<a href="https://t.co/kFBTtd7rq3">pic.twitter.com/kFBTtd7rq3</a></p>&mdash; Just Talk Wrestling (@JustTalkWrestle) <a href="https://twitter.com/JustTalkWrestle/status/1566758577481605120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 5, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[JonInMiddleGA]

This was pretty funny. Punk is outraged about having to talk about Colt Cobana even though nobody asked him about Colt Cobana.

He said Scott Colton numerous times after saying how he should never have to say Scott Colton's name.

The whole thing would have been a reasonable argument for CTE concerns if not for the reality that Phil Brooks has been well established as a complete prick for a long time now.

[Toddzilla]

FFS the same jerkoffs who reported ad nauseum about the MJF situation for days an basically got every single detail wrong are now trying to tell us they know the play-by-play of what happened backstage at AEW while the owner of the company took questions about being 13-years old in ECW arena and didn't, you know, go check on his biggest star and the EVPs of the company he owns purportedly getting into a major fracas.

The only consistency here is that the sheets consistently get this shit very wrong, so I don't buy a word of any of it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

FFS the same jerkoffs who reported ad nauseum about the MJF situation for days an basically got every single detail wrong are now trying to tell us they know the play-by-play of what happened backstage at AEW while the owner of the company took questions about being 13-years old in ECW arena and didn't, you know, go check on his biggest star and the EVPs of the company he owns purportedly getting into a major fracas.

The only consistency here is that the sheets consistently get this shit very wrong, so I don't buy a word of any of it.

There's no indication TK had the slightest clue what was occurring off-stage while he continued to talk. For as little as I think of the guy, I don't know that you can read anything into his inaction if he was unaware.

Should somebody have told him? That's probably a different question.

[JonInMiddleGA]

fwiw

Sports Illustrated have reported that Kenny Omega, The Young Bucks, Pat Buck, Christopher Daniels, Michael Nakazawa, and Brandon Cutler have all been suspended by the promotion. CM Punk and Ace Steel will either be suspended or will be gone from All Elite Wrestling by the end of Wednesday.

I'm not linking to the SI article referenced here cause I think they are/were one of the links that used to break threads around here.

Interesting to see the recently promoted Pat Buck and Christopher Daniels caught up in the suspensions, guessing it was because they didn't stop the whole mess?

[Mota]

Something needs to happen, that's for sure. Tony has lost control of the locker room, and it really feels like the best days of AEW are behind them. If CM Punk wants to be a malcontent and piss off everybody, he can go back home again. This is quickly becoming another WCW where the wrestlers are running the show, and we all know how quickly it can spiral.

[dubb93]

Something needs to happen, that's for sure. Tony has lost control of the locker room, and it really feels like the best days of AEW are behind them. If CM Punk wants to be a malcontent and piss off everybody, he can go back home again. This is quickly becoming another WCW where the wrestlers are running the show, and we all know how quickly it can spiral.

It's a difficult thing because while yea Punk said a bunch of stuff he had no business saying....you also have three company Executive Vice Presidents literally kicking his locker room door in after he wouldn't answer it (according to some reports, reports are all over the place.) Going to be fascinating to see how this ends up playing out. IDK if Tony has it in him to fire Punk.

[miami_fan]

Something needs to happen, that's for sure. Tony has lost control of the locker room, and it really feels like the best days of AEW are behind them. If CM Punk wants to be a malcontent and piss off everybody, he can go back home again. This is quickly becoming another WCW where the wrestlers are running the show, and we all know how quickly it can spiral.

Casual fan alert so this may be obviously wrong but isn't that the selling point of AEW? That Tony Khan is not controlling the locker room? Of course there has to be a balance but just reading about the suspensions read more WWE than what AEW was supposed to represent. Or is that not what it was supposed to represent?

[RainMaker]

It's a difficult thing because while yea Punk said a bunch of stuff he had no business saying....you also have three company Executive Vice Presidents literally kicking his locker room door in after he wouldn't answer it (according to some reports, reports are all over the place.) Going to be fascinating to see how this ends up playing out. IDK if Tony has it in him to fire Punk.

If you're going to try and destroy someone's career, they may kick your door down and look for a fight.

[dubb93]

If you're going to try and destroy someone's career, they may kick your door down and look for a fight.

I think generally when you bad mouth high ranking company executives you generally get called in for a meeting and/or a call from HR that results in you being suspended without pay or fired. I don't think it's standard to have a company executive kick your door in and start a fight.

I mean the only play here is to either fire them all or fire none of them IMO. Both are going to be hard to stomach.

[RainMaker]

Casual fan alert so this may be obviously wrong but isn't that the selling point of AEW? That Tony Khan is not controlling the locker room? Of course there has to be a balance but just reading about the suspensions read more WWE than what AEW was supposed to represent. Or is that not what it was supposed to represent?

Giving talent freedom in the ring and on promos is a good thing. It makes for a more organic product. But having wrestlers sabotaging characters and storylines is bad for business.

Tony sounds like a genuinely nice guy. But you can't always be the nice guy in this business. The fact that half the roster has a title now and they are putting on 15 match PPVs shows he is just trying to appease everyone. And trying to appease everyone leads to your biggest star feeling emboldened enough to sit next to you and trash the company and most of the roster.

The company desperately needed someone who could put their foot down. Someone who would nip these things in the bud. And now they're left with a pretty monumental shakeup that could be the downfall of the company.

[Toddzilla]

Sidebar

I hope Tommy End (Malakai/Aelister Black) is going to be okay and he gets whatever help he may need and finds peace.

[molson]

Meltzer says Punk is injured and needs surgery and will be out for a while regardless. So that will be a convenient saving-face "suspension"

I admit I'm pretty entertained by all this stuff. I miss WCW backstage insanity.

[RainMaker]

Sidebar

I hope Tommy End (Malakai/Aelister Black) is going to be okay and he gets whatever help he may need and finds peace.

Same. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up back in WWE. I believe his wife is still with the company and he seemed to get along well with HHH.

The House of Black stuff was a nice idea in AEW but they never really did much with it.

[SirFozzie]

He got a limited release, meaning he can't sign with WWE for quite a while.

[RainMaker]

MJF is so good

[JonInMiddleGA]

MJF is so good

That was so much gold.

[JonInMiddleGA]

On a side note, could Trent Baretta look or work any worse than he has tonight?

He looks like he ate Colt Cabana and has worked lighter than a feather. He's made Cassidy look like f'n Shibata.

[RainMaker]

MJF reminds me of The Rock in the late 90s. Ability to just completely control a crowd. Jericho mentioned that he will hit a point where he won't be able to be a heel anymore. Kind of like The Rock.

[RainMaker]

On a side note, could Trent Baretta look or work any worse than he has tonight?

He looks like he ate Colt Cabana and has worked lighter than a feather. He's made Cassidy look like f'n Shibata.

I think he had spinal fusion surgery and just hasn't looked right since. Doesn't help that he is going against some crazy athletic wrestlers in that match.

[SirFozzie]

Ok. Watched it live, and rather then reacting then (because it would have been gushing fanboy-level shit, I was that pumped up), fell asleep for a few hours. Now, However is the time to REACT.



Highly professional way to open the show. No attempts to be too cute, refer to things in an oblique way, and the fact that they didn't even say any of the suspended folks names (due to the ongoing investigation) or show their faces makes me think it's a shoot. (If it is, the fact that Punk is likely out long term (I've heard a year) due to his injuries means they likely will not turn it into a worked shoot later.

MJF is such an ass. The question was if he could even keep a straight face for five minutes. Shameless face pandering to let the crowd kinda get it out of their system, and then going back to the Maximum Cheap Heat stuff.

Mox wasn't having ANY of this crap. I wonder if Tony let him leave early as a thank you for coming in on his day off. Honestly, if Moxley was a bit (ok, at least five-ten years) older, I'd buy another Minoru Suzuki tour and let the two of them run riot (not Ruby) through the backstage, beating up anyone who doesn't take pro wrestling and the RING seriously. (Someone in the middle of a silly angle? Suzuki-Moxley show up and beat the shit out of them, and just walk away.). But seriously, this was one of those things where the emotion behind it made the promo organic and thus, awesome.

The trios match was well.. insane. Danhausen Falcon Punching Alex's jimmies was awesome. Danhausen also immediately getting the RECEIPT from PAC was DOUBLE awesome. Triple Canadian Destroyer was Triple (of course) Awesome. While I think that Orange/Friends deserve a trios title run, they're an act that doesn't NEED the belt right now, while Death Triangle have been stuck in neutral collectively (other than PAC's title) and needed the belts more.

One complaint. Way too much taunt spamming at the beginning, but at least they got rid of it as the match went on. They should have gone straight to the finish after the Destroyers, but that was a minor quibble (it conditions folks to only expect a pinfall after a finisher)

I feel sad that this looks like the end of Dark Order, with Andrade headhunting Vance.

Toni Storm-Penelope Ford was to me, a meh to meh+ match (but that's a lot because there was so much insanity in the other matches). No challenge in the result really

The Acclaimed. Oh god, this could get spicy.. Swerve interrupts so we'll never know what Caster was going to say (which is another reason I think the brawl is real. Caster would be EXPECTED to meta-comment on the whole thing, so, don't even give him a chance to speak.) I'm probably going to catch some heat for this, but heel Swerve's facial expressions remind me of a famous rapper. Sadly, it's Flava Flav. The thought of the pop in two weeks when the Acclaimed (Hopefully) win the belts in NEW YAWK CITY! warms my pro-wrestling soul.

If you told anyone from the Ruthless Agresion era that the top catchphrase in 2022 is "Now Scissor Me, Daddy Ass!" they'd wonder where the hell things went wrong.

Wardlow is so stuck in neutral, some of this because well, they won't give him anyone real to squash so it's just a one-hit wonder hitting that one-note over and over again. They need to figure out.. something with him. fish or cut bait. Then again with the other titles hot potatoing lately, maybe it's good that Jade and Wardlow hold down the secondary singles belts with an infinite lock.

Danielson-Page 3 wasn't on the levels of the first two, but that just means it was **** awesome instead of ***** awwwwwwwwesome (and truth be told, Jericho half-spoiling the result in his promo took away some of the shine from the match).

Sad that Wheeler Yuta is no longer the Pure Champion but it's great to see that there was no shenanigans, and they give the fans what they want. I half-question why this was the main event behind Danielson-Page, but I get that they wanted to finish with the hometown pop)

They threaded the needle very adroitly. It looks like we won't see or hear from any of the fight parties for several months+, which while sad, is possibly the best for the roster, where they get a chance to shine. The brass ring is available boys, now grab it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

We're obviously (I mean, it's well-established previously) in different camps about the promotion overall but we actually agree on several specifics from last night



MJF is such an ass. The question was if he could even keep a straight face for five minutes. Shameless face pandering to let the crowd kinda get it out of their system, and then going back to the Maximum Cheap Heat stuff.

Well done stuff, he's such gold. As good as there is on the mic in North America* (*that's not grading on a curve, it's just me acknowledging that promos are a different animal in Japan)

Danhausen also immediately getting the RECEIPT from PAC was DOUBLE awesome.

I like Danhausen generally speaking and I dislike PAC ... but that was precisely what the situation needed & I popped for it.


The Acclaimed. Oh god, this could get spicy.. Swerve interrupts so we'll never know what Caster was going to say (which is another reason I think the brawl is real. Caster would be EXPECTED to meta-comment on the whole thing, so, don't even give him a chance to speak.)

Yeah, as eagerly anticipated as the comments were, it's for the best for his future that they didn't give him a chance to get himself in trouble. I know he could, you know he could, they know he could ... so just don't let it happen.

Wardlow is so stuck in neutral, some of this because well, they won't give him anyone real to squash so it's just a one-hit wonder hitting that one-note over and over again. They need to figure out.. something with him. fish or cut bait.

I so badly wanted Lance Archer to appear there. I'm not a Wardlow guy, I don't see much there frankly and consider him more smoke than fire ... but if it's there, a prolonged hoss feud with Archer might be the thing to bring it out.

[RainMaker]

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Ladies panicking on my TL don’t worry. <br><br>Just cuz there’s a goalie doesn’t mean you can’t score. <br><br>Strive for greatness. <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Saltoftheearth?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Saltoftheearth</a> <a href="https://t.co/M4v2qPY9TF">https://t.co/M4v2qPY9TF</a></p>&mdash; Maxwell Jacob Friedman™️ (@The_MJF) <a href="https://twitter.com/The_MJF/status/1570520742160375809?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 15, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[RainMaker]

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I love how Roman Reigns was already doing WWE moves on QBs as a Georgia Tech football player.<br><br>CC: <a href="https://twitter.com/Brady_Quinn?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Brady_Quinn</a> <a href="https://t.co/yc0W16IdVb">pic.twitter.com/yc0W16IdVb</a></p>&mdash; Jim Weber (@JimMWeber) <a href="https://twitter.com/JimMWeber/status/1574449987433414661?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 26, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[miami_fan]

Antonio Inoki, famed combat sports trailblazer, dies at 79 (https://www.espn.com/mma/story/_/id/34698840/antonio-inoki-famed-combat-sports-trailblazer-dies-79)

I only knew him as the guy who fought Ali and the guy American wrestlers faced when they went to Japan. Never knew he did so much more both in and out of the ring.

Anyone know the reasoning behind this creative decision?

He was also the first Japanese wrestler to win the WWF championship (though the reign is not currently recognized by WWE)

[RainMaker]

Feels like MJF is at that stage the Rock got to where he's such a ridiculously good heel that it just turns him babyface.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Logan Paul impresses in a WWE ring ... and tore his MCL and meniscus, and potentially an ACL

[dubb93]

My 6 year old is officially a huge WWE fan. He's casually watched stuff for about a year now (maybe a couple of shows a month) and enjoyed the game but we are at the point now where he is wanting WWE toys, shirts, belts, and tracks the days down to RAW and Smackdown.

Seeing him watch it reminds me of him at that age. It's also refreshing to watch with someone who thinks everything is real still.

[dubb93]

Also can’t believe I’m saying this, but if Logan Paul would commit the sky is literally the limit for that man in wrestling. I just don’t know that he is going to be willing to commit.

[miami_fan]

Homeland Security Admits It Tried to Manufacture Fake Terrorists for Trump (https://news.yahoo.com/homeland-security-admits-tried-manufacture-114500599.html)

Sounds like the taxpayer got good value for the money spent to create those narratives in Portland.

[Toddzilla]

Homeland Security Admits It Tried to Manufacture Fake Terrorists for Trump (https://news.yahoo.com/homeland-security-admits-tried-manufacture-114500599.html)

Sounds like the taxpayer got good value for the money spent to create those narratives in Portland.DHS Works media into a shoot, film at 11.

[miami_fan]

Oops wrong thread:lol:

[dubb93]

When does Tribute to the Troops air? I’m sitting here watching the taping and it’s odd that Gunther doesn’t have his title.

[RainMaker]

Also can’t believe I’m saying this, but if Logan Paul would commit the sky is literally the limit for that man in wrestling. I just don’t know that he is going to be willing to commit.

It's probably not worth it to commit full time. Seems like the money is in the big shows. There's probably better ways to make money than doing house shows in Rochester.

I also think he's probably better off as a part-time guy. They have so much TV that guys get overexposed so fast. Now he can pop-in for a couple months, make a few million, and then move on. Him being out for Wrestlemania in Los Angeles is a big blow though.

[dubb93]

It's probably not worth it to commit full time. Seems like the money is in the big shows. There's probably better ways to make money than doing house shows in Rochester.

I also think he's probably better off as a part-time guy. They have so much TV that guys get overexposed so fast. Now he can pop-in for a couple months, make a few million, and then move on. Him being out for Wrestlemania in Los Angeles is a big blow though.

I get it, he’s already a rich dude. I just think what he does is pretty fickle as many top social media stars have dried up over night. I don’t think he needs to be doing a ton of house shows but the man won’t hit anywhere near where he could if he continues to wrestle 3 matches a year. I honestly think if he would get more reps in that in 5 years you could be looking at one of the top workers in the world which is to say nothing of his charisma and all that.

Also between the botched table spot at Smackdown last night and Rhonda legit falling off the top rope at Tribute for the Troops (I have never seen this happen before last night) it was a bad night for women’s wrestling. Honestly it was a weird Smackdown. Super hot opener and then show just kinda died on us. There were super long stretches of just commercials and backstage segments(the ring announcer actually sang a song to keep up engaged during one commercial break-backstage segments only-commercial break segment.) I’ve previously been to several RAW shows (years ago) and wasn’t really expecting the down time. Things definitely picked up when Roman came out at the end and then Tribute for the Troops started but I don’t know how well that will play on TV as a large portion of the crowd left when Smackdown ended(atleast 25%.)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Wrestle Kingdom 17 card is now set, January 4th at the Tokyo Dome

Ryohei Oiwa vs. Boltin Oleg - Kickoff Show
New Japan Ranbo - Kickoff Show
Satoshi Kojima, Yuji Nagata, & Togi Makabe vs. Tatsumi Fujinami, Minoru Suzuki, & Tiger Mask - Antonio Inoki Memorial Match
Francesco Akira & TJP (c) vs. Lio Rush & YOH - IWGP Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Championships
KAIRI (c) vs. Tam Nakano - IWGP Women's Championship
FTR (c) vs. Bishamon - IWGP Heavyweight Tag Team Championships
Zack Sabre Jr. vs. Ren Narita - NJPW World TV Championship
Karl Anderson (c) vs. Tama Tonga - NEVER Openweight Championship
Keiji Muto, Hiroshi Tanahashi, & Shota Umino vs. Tetsuya Naito, SANADA, & BUSHI
Taiji Ishimori (c) vs. Hiromu Takahashi vs. El Desperado vs. Master Wato - IWGP Junior Heavyweight Championship
Will Ospreay (c) vs. Kenny Omega - IWGP United States Heavyweight Championship
Jay White (c) vs. Kazuchika Okada - IWGP World Heavyweight Championship

[Toddzilla]

You need to go out of your way to watch the Omega/Osprey presser from this morning.

[RainMaker]

That was terrific. Felt bad for Jay White and Okada after that.

Ospreay was really impressive. Didn't know he had that in him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Opsreay promo was excellent ... which leaves me fearing the worst for the booking (it'd be SO njpw to have him lose after that and have to wait years to get the win back)

[RainMaker]

I think it would make sense to have Ospreay win this one. Omega win at an AEW PPV. And then have the blowoff at Forbidden Door 2.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I think it would make sense to have Ospreay win this one. Omega win at an AEW PPV. And then have the blowoff at Forbidden Door 2.

I agree ... which is why I have so little faith in it actually being booked like that.

(Yes, I'm rather sick of watching NJPW act like AEW's bitch and making bad decisions repeatedly, so my expectations are fairly colored)

[Toddzilla]

Osprey's post-match presser is another must-fucking-watch. He took the presser from Monday and topped it x10.

[RainMaker]

Incredible match. Not sure I understand the finish. Feels like Ospreay needed that win more than Omega. And it continues to make NJPW look like the minor leagues.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And it continues to make NJPW look like the minor leagues.

More & more, it feels like they think they're TNA and only matter when they can bring in people from outside.

With the $$$$ being thrown at Sasha (reportedly more than they paid Jericho), I expect we'll start to see a steady exodus of longstanding employees as their contracts expire.

It's clear that the current "leadership" is looking to go other directions.

[RainMaker]

I was too tired to look up reactions but that Sasha debut was brutal. Didn't seem like the crowd cared and then she botched her move.

Can see how Sasha would get a big pop in the States but it just doesn't seem like the Japanese audience cares much and it's a huge waste of money.

[RainMaker]

And I like Sasha. But I think her gimmick is far more suited for an American audience.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Osprey's post-match presser is another must-fucking-watch. He took the presser from Monday and topped it x10.

Jay White post-match presser was also strong.

[JonInMiddleGA]

A fairly interesting New Year Dash*.

We get a tease of what's next for Suzuki, we get a new faction for Taka and most of the Suzuki-gun remnants, we get Jay challenging Hikuleo to a loser-leaves-Japan match, we get an even newer member for TMDK, we get next challengers for most of the belts, and we have a Dragon as KOPW.

And oh yeah, we got to see Okada & Omega in a tag match ... as partners.


*until it was tweeted about, I never consciously realized that the correct name for the event is "Year" not "Year's" which is how most people tend to say it.

[Toddzilla]

NYD was cute, nothing spectacular, but fun to watch.

I am curious how the "Loser Leaves Japan" match is going to turn out.

[dubb93]

WWE looks like they could be headed for possibly years of litigation with Vince giving his notice today that he plans to vote himself and two former execs that are loyal to him as board members. To do this it appears he would have to fire three existing board members. In order to get no one to fight this he added the juicy part to all of this.....if they don't allow him to do this he will block any and all media rights deals in the future (and the deals are reportedly due to be renegotiated shortly.)

It's unclear if the first part actually violates any laws (you could argue Vince knows that doing this could impact the company negatively considering how his exit was forced) but I imagine having Vince back on the board will be bad PR overall but I think his added part about basically nuking the company off TV could for sure have some legal ramifications if a minority shareholder decides to make a point of it.

TLDR Vince is who we thought he was.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Actually, my read was that all the media rights deals would be subject to his approval regardless, but the end goal is he's returning in order to facilitate the sale of the company.

Stock rose 23% with hours of the news.

[dubb93]

Actually, my read was that all the media rights deals would be subject to his approval regardless, but the end goal is he's returning in order to facilitate the sale of the company.

Stock rose 23% with hours of the news.

The stock went up on the rumors of a possible sale yea, but there really isn't any reason for Vince to come back and be involved in any of that IMO. He's toxic at this point.

Khan for instance, is 100% capable of leading those discussions if that is the direction they choose to go.

There is also a whole world of distance between subject to his approval due to how much stock he holds and him basically saying even if you get the best deal you could ever get it's finna be a no from me if you don't put me on the board.

[RainMaker]

Does his statement change anything? I was under the impression that he owned a controlling stake in the company. So of course he could refuse to accept a new media deal or do practically anything he legally wants with the company.

The sale makes sense. The demand for not just live content but archived content is still pretty high (although I bet they wish they had sold last year). Plus they have an endless supply of intellectual property.

I guess the question becomes whether Vince gets involved in the day-to-day stuff again.

[dubb93]

Does his statement change anything? I was under the impression that he owned a controlling stake in the company. So of course he could refuse to accept a new media deal or do practically anything he legally wants with the company.

Minority stockholder rights are a thing. He can't act as the majority shareholder in any way that would intentionally hurt the minority shareholders. Pretty big gray area but I think taking the WWE off of TV (and maybe even the threat) would probably qualify here. You could make arguments that after the board decided the guy with 2 pending sexual assault lawsuits and countless more allegations coming back would be bad for business that him forcing himself back could qualify here too. With his money though any court case would be tied up probably until his death honestly. He could drag this out forever.

As for getting involved in day to day operations....I'd say that is basically worst case scenario at this point for everyone not named Vince. The product has improved, the stock price has improved, and the morale in the company have all improved with him gone.

[RainMaker]

I think people are interpreting his statement on the media rights as a threat when it's not. I take it as "I'm not going to allow us to sign a media deal that will hamstring us in sales talks".

If the company is to be sold, signing a long media rights deal significantly changes the landscape. I'm guessing the company is much more appealing to Comcast or Disney if they don't have a 10-year deal to air one of their programs on Fox. The companies buying WWE likely want to decide that stuff.

[JonInMiddleGA]

but there really isn't any reason for Vince to come back and be involved in any of that IMO

He still owns the majority stake, that's reason enough.

As for Khan, I'd say he's probably among the most likely to be ousted. I figure Steph & Trips may not be long for the place either.

[dubb93]

He still owns the majority stake, that's reason enough.

Fair enough. They really should have forced him out when all the allegations hit. It's pretty disgusting that he's back in charge after all that he has done and with the litigation and possible (although unlikely) charges still pending.

I think people are interpreting his statement on the media rights as a threat when it's not. I take it as "I'm not going to allow us to sign a media deal that will hamstring us in sales talks".

Also fair even though that is not the way I'm taking it. Time will tell though.

If the company is to be sold, signing a long media rights deal significantly changes the landscape. I'm guessing the company is much more appealing to Comcast or Disney if they don't have a 10-year deal to air one of their programs on Fox. The companies buying WWE likely want to decide that stuff.

Not going to argue that if you were going to sell then now is the time to get that done, but if they aren't sold by the time the deals are up you can't just not put your shows on TV. That all gets me back to where I don't know what the point in the statement was if it wasn't a threat.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The three ousted board members were Dillon (former Chief Legal Officer of ExOne Company) , Speed (former EVP & CFO of Six Flags) , and Wexler (ex-SVP General Motors).

In addition, reportedly, Lahoud (CEO of Majid Al Futtaim - Leisure, Entertainment & Cinemas) and Singh (ex Presof Home Entertainment, Sony Pictures) also resigned from the Board of Directors.

[dubb93]

Wonder if there will be any sponsorship fallout? I imagine Fox and NBC won’t say anything as they both almost certainly want to buy WWE.

[dubb93]

Just read that one of the people who resigned was in charge of the WWE’s internal investigation into Vince’s allegations. That would be quite the statement.

[SirFozzie]

Kinda expected this, after all, we all know that retirement stips in wrestling never stick...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Just read that one of the people who resigned was in charge of the WWE’s internal investigation into Vince’s allegations. That would be quite the statement.

But I'm not sure it's a statement of anything quite so definitive as "yeah, I'll be about as welcome here as a torn rotator cuff"

[JonInMiddleGA]

Wonder if there will be any sponsorship fallout? I imagine Fox and NBC won’t say anything as they both almost certainly want to buy WWE.

Interesting to me that the first speculative article I've seen doesn't list Fox among the most likely early suitors.

The Saudis, Amazon, Comcast, Endeavor (aka the old William Morris Agency) and CAA (the other big time artist rep company), and Liberty Media were the ones mentioned by that particular financial analyst (one among the many I'm sure)

[molson]

Kinda expected this, after all, we all know that retirement stips in wrestling never stick...

I chuckled.

[RainMaker]

The Saudis always made the most sense. I never understood why they tried to go thr golf route. MMA and wrestling feels much easier.

[dubb93]

The Saudis always made the most sense. I never understood why they tried to go thr golf route. MMA and wrestling feels much easier.

I can’t even imagine what that could look like. I think maybe they would be pretty hands off on creative, but ask for the older stars to be featured more. Would we be looking at all the big events moving to Saudi? And the women? That’s kind of a bad thought to think about.

[Carman Bulldog]

So he's not actually the majority shareholder in the sense that he only owns around 37.6% of the company. However, the specific type of shares that he owns allow him 80.6% of the voting power.

[Mota]

So he's not actually the majority shareholder in the sense that he only owns around 37.6% of the company. However, the specific type of shares that he owns allow him 80.6% of the voting power.

When he "retired", those b-stocks with extra voting power should have been converted to regular stock. Obviously he never planned on being away for too long.

[JonInMiddleGA]

"Sources" say that NJPW does not expect to be able to re-sign Jay White when his contract expires shortly, same sources say WWE frontrunner to acquire him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

per PWInsider, Stephanie McMahon has resigned from all WWE positions today

edit to add: Quotes from Vince, Steph, and new CEO Nick Khan
https://www.pwinsider.com/ViewArticle.php?id=166852

[Carman Bulldog]

Has Vince ever really cared about anything but creative? There's usually always been other people there that have focused on the admin operations while Vince takes the lead on creative. From what I understand, any shareholders calls or meetings always involved Vince doing a brief opening and then turning it over to others to talk actual business.

If anything, I have to think that this ultimately ends with
a. Vince taking over creative; or
b. A sale negotiated by Vince which involves him staying on with the new owners and remaining in charge of creative

I can't imagine he came back for any other reason except for wanting to be involved in creative.

[Carman Bulldog]

DOLA: This might be my favourite line from the Board of Director's response letter back to Vince's initial feelers about coming back in December...

"...it is also our unanimous view that your return to the Company at this time, while government investigations into your conduct by the U.S. Attorney’s Office and SEC are still pending, would not be prudent from a shareholder value perspective.”

I mean, "unanimous" means the whole Board, correct?

[dubb93]

Quite a bit of dirt slinging around that WWE has been sold to Saudi and that Vince will return to head of creative in the new deal. Seems quite fast to get a deal done but I've read crazier things. Was really hoping that would not end up being the buyer if I'm being honest.

[Flasch186]

Man is AEW looking poised to crush WWE in the short term in regards to talent relations and 'patriotic' gravitas.

[RainMaker]

On the other hand, the Saudis don't have to appease shareholders and probably don't care a ton about record profits. They could gut the AEW roster if they wanted.These were people willing to pay millions for a crappy DX vs Brothers of Destruction match.

I think this is the worst case scenario for AEW.

[dubb93]

Does not appear to have been a true rumor anyway according to Ariel Helwani atleast. The shareholders appear to have filed a lawsuit against Vince McMahon though, but I imagine the company could be sold before there is any resolution to that case barring some sort of injunction from the court.

[PilotMan]

Billy Corgan is the real American hero we all need.

[RainMaker]

I wonder if they floated the rumor to see what kind of backlash came from the companies that would be bidding on rights in the coming years. There might be a few who just won't do business with the Saudis (Disney off the top of my head).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Billy Corgan is the real American hero we all need.

Alas, he has access to virtually no real wrestling talent to speak of. That roster is atrocious.

[Flasch186]

The wwe roster would be gutted in that a huge % of women/divas would boycott wrestling there and the backlash in the locker room would be unbelievable. Look, not to toot my horn, but I called from day one (maybe before) that AEW was coming and was going to be a real player in all of this and I think I was right. I think I’ll be right that a sushi involvement will but wwes value by 33% and they’ll struggle mightily to compete on a go forward basis because the Khans will be able to get their talent at a discount due to the discontent.

[Toddzilla]

the Khans will be able to get their talent at a discount due to the discontent.The Saudi investment group have about $800 BILLION to spend - ain't nobody getting a discount on nothing.

[dubb93]

Saudi has paid more for 5 events than WWE has grossed in ticket sales for every WrestleMania that has ever taken place.

[molson]

Vince and the Saudis is a fascinating dynamic. There's an above zero chance this ends with him being publicly executed in Riyadh.

But, there are reports too saying there's nothing to this, and another one that they're talking to Disney.

[Mota]

It's likely that the Saudis will just buy compliance from the wrestlers. Why protest when your salary could double or triple? All of a sudden, those transgressions don't seem quite as bad anymore.

[molson]

Barron's even says that the Khans are looking into acquiring a partner and getting in on this.

[Mota]

Now some of the deals include retaining Vince as part of the company. Is there anything to stop them from pulling a swerve on him and canning him as soon as the deal is made? I mean, I've heard so many stories about "no changes expected" after a buyout, and we all know that's not true. Maybe he'll have a massive golden parachute in the deal.

[Toddzilla]

Vince has always maintained that he wouldn't sign off on a deal that didn't keep him in charge.

[dubb93]

Took my 7 year old to RAW last night. It was his second wrestling show (we went to Smackdown in Indianapolis when they filmed Tribute to the Troops.) it was a completely different show pace wise. Smackdown had a killer match (Usos and New Day for the title record.) but they killed the show in the middle with commercial breaks sandwiched between backstage segments. This show was paced much better with no obvious action break, but it didn’t really have a killer matchup.

We did have the Alexa Bliss and Bianca segment happen right in front oh us which was fun. Alexa was literally tossed into the rail where she was like 4 feet from us. Then later in the show during what was apparently a commercial break Bobby and Baron came into the crowd and Bobby tossed Baron into the same spot and then started hitting him.

It was a really good time and those two segments really gave us some memories plus my son really got excited when I started getting texts that people saw us on TV.

[dubb93]

Forgot to add it was a really small crowd. We estimated somewhere between half to 1/3 the size of Indy with large sections of the upper deck tarped off compared to Indy where nothing was tarped . It’s also just a smaller arena in general. All that means we had no wait to get out of the parking garage which was nice. Took 30+ minutes to exit in Indy.

[RainMaker]

That's a great story. Kids love wrestling despite us adults arguing about it.

Speaking of which, I'm really happy Adam Cole is healthy. The guy could not be further from the character he plays on TV. I took my niece to a meet and greet with him at a local Target (maybe Walmart, I don't remember). She was 10 and so nervous (I think partly because he plays a bad guy on TV). Needed some prodding to walk up to the table for the autograph.

Anyways, Adam notices this and says something about how much he likes her shirt and comes out from behind the table for the photo (they normally just sit at the table and smile for the photo). He asks if she can hold his belt for him (it was the NXT title at the time), which is apparently much heavier than you'd think.

It made for an incredible photo and she was so giddy about it. Will always support the guy for that. It was a class move from a guy who spotted a very shy kid and made her comfortable.

If you have young kids, I highly recommend the meet and greets. I'm sure it depends on who is signing, but everyone with the exception of one I've taken her and my nephew to see has been great. Kevin Owens is another person who was incredibly kind to the kids.

[JonInMiddleGA]

That's a great story. Kids love wrestling despite us adults arguing about it.

Speaking of which, I'm really happy Adam Cole is healthy. The guy could not be further from the character he plays on TV. I took my niece to a meet and greet with him at a local Target (maybe Walmart, I don't remember). She was 10 and so nervous (I think partly because he plays a bad guy on TV). Needed some prodding to walk up to the table for the autograph.

Anyways, Adam notices this and says something about how much he likes her shirt and comes out from behind the table for the photo (they normally just sit at the table and smile for the photo). He asks if she can hold his belt for him (it was the NXT title at the time), which is apparently much heavier than you'd think.

It made for an incredible photo and she was so giddy about it. Will always support the guy for that. It was a class move from a guy who spotted a very shy kid and made her comfortable.

If you have young kids, I highly recommend the meet and greets. I'm sure it depends on who is signing, but everyone with the exception of one I've taken her and my nephew to see has been great. Kevin Owens is another person who was incredibly kind to the kids.

I'd pretty much echo this. Very similar to our experiences 20 years ago with TNA. Both AJ Styles and particularly Samoa Joe were fantastic with kids, Eric Young also.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Absolutely gutpunching news :(
Just ... damn.

Rest in peace.

https://cultaholic.com/posts/jay-briscoe-passes-away

[RainMaker]

It appears Jay Broscoe died in a car accident. Tragic news.

[RainMaker]

Oh no it sounds like his kids were hurt pretty bad in the accident too. News just gets worse and worse.

[RainMaker]

Also, reading through some of these tributes from other wrestlers, it seems like he was an incredibly kind person. So many people like Owens, Zayn, Cole, and others who attribute their success to him.

[BYU 14]

It is such a shame the Briscoe's never got a shot on a national stage. Easily as good as any tag team in the US and their last ROH tag team title match against FTR was incredible.

Such sad news R.I.P and positive vibes for his young daughters in their recovery

[Toddzilla]

Just watched the Kiyomiya/Okada thing and that shit was next level. Pissed-off Okada is more than we as humans deserve. HOLY FUCK.

[Toddzilla]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Kaito Kiyomiya BOOTS Okada in the F*CKING FACE at today’s Wrestle Kingdom Day 2 (01.21.2023)<a href="https://t.co/u1d3Z6RJhD">pic.twitter.com/u1d3Z6RJhD</a></p>&mdash; Dark Puroresu Flowsion (@PuroresuFlow) <a href="https://twitter.com/PuroresuFlow/status/1616746109359251458?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 21, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[dubb93]

Big RAW tonight with legends, two title matches, a cage match, and Sami Zayn's trial.

[dubb93]

My wrestling obsessed 7 year old, “Triple H knows I started watching AEW this week, that’s why they are showing the matches during the ads.”

I found it funny, we did start watching AEW this week for first time because he is so into wrestling and I’ve been honest with him that HHH is in charge of WWE right now. He does still believe in kayfabe. Anyone have any thoughts on their experience handling THAT transition?

[Toddzilla]

Marc Briscoe is wrestling on Dynamite tonight v. Jay Lethal, WBD gave AEW the okay to allow Marc on TV.

[BYU 14]

Marc Briscoe is wrestling on Dynamite tonight v. Jay Lethal, WBD gave AEW the okay to allow Marc on TV.

That whole thing with Warner is such BS. Jay made that comment so long ago, apologized numerous times, took sensitivity training and was beloved in the business, with many openly gay wrestlers advocating for him.

Meanwhile, Warner is okay with letting Sammy back after sensitivity training for the audio that popped up of him saying he wanted to rape Sasha Banks, has a wrestler convicted of felony bank robbery (Nick Gage) on their TV show because he is buddies with Jericho and Moxley, and has no issue with bringing MJF back after his profanity laced shoot on Khan on live TV, then there is the whole Punk/Bucks/Omega issue.

Very selective in what they find acceptable

[RainMaker]

Let's not forget that the show after Dynamite is the new slap fight league which, beyond how incredibly dumb it is, features a guy who was caught on camera hitting his wife a few weeks ago.

The tribute last night was really well done. I didn't know they were the ROH Tag Champs.

[Mota]

No excusing his behavior for hitting his wife, which should never be done, but why does no one ever talk about his wife slapping him first? I don't see anybody cancelling her, and talking about how abusive she is.

[BYU 14]

No excusing his behavior for hitting his wife, which should never be done, but why does no one ever talk about his wife slapping him first? I don't see anybody cancelling her, and talking about how abusive she is.

She obviously has culpability too, but as a man, considerably stronger than her, he could have reacted differently and there are levels to this too.

Dana is a former boxer and significantly stronger, if walking away didn't work, he could have just restrained her until things calmed down.

Women can and should be charged for domestic abuse just like a man and I believe there is a point where a man would have to defend himself against a woman, but I don't think this is it. Not sure if this would have happened if alcohol was not involved, but that still doesn't give him a pass.

I am considerably bigger and stronger than my wife. (6' 215 to 5'1 130) and also boxed when I was young, so even a slap in anger could hurt her and I can say it would never happen, even if she slapped me first because I just don't believe that should be the initial reaction, unless there was legit danger of being hurt.

Beyond that, I really don't think White is suffering severe consequences for this. People are going to rightfully criticize him, especially as this happened immediately preceding the launch of his Slap League, which I also think is incredibly stupid. But beyond words/reputation, he certainly doesn't seem to have suffered much here. Nowhere near the level of a professional athlete for sure.

[BYU 14]

And the Briscoe tribute was amazing. Props to Mark and Jay lethal for performing through what must have been an incredible crush of emotions. Loved what AEW did and the love they showed his family.

[Mota]

I'm very surprised that this Slap League was allowed to continue, especially because of the incident. It's also extremely dangerous, in 2023 should we really be giving people unprotected blows to the face? I think we've collected enough data to show that it's a ridiculously bad idea. It's almost like creating a football league where only helmet to helmet hits are allowed.

A strike doesn't have to physically injure in order to hurt. A close friend of mine would be slapped by his wife in public quite often, she would use it as a tool to emasculate him. He'd never hit her back. Nobody ever called the cops on her. She'd also verbally put him down in front of all of our friends, and he wouldn't yell back because he had to be the bigger man. But by being the bigger man, eventually he became a shell of the man he was, because he was smaller and smaller over time. They're not together anymore.

[BYU 14]

I'm very surprised that this Slap League was allowed to continue, especially because of the incident. It's also extremely dangerous, in 2023 should we really be giving people unprotected blows to the face? I think we've collected enough data to show that it's a ridiculously bad idea. It's almost like creating a football league where only helmet to helmet hits are allowed.

A strike doesn't have to physically injure in order to hurt. A close friend of mine would be slapped by his wife in public quite often, she would use it as a tool to emasculate him. He'd never hit her back. Nobody ever called the cops on her. She'd also verbally put him down in front of all of our friends, and he wouldn't yell back because he had to be the bigger man. But by being the bigger man, eventually he became a shell of the man he was, because he was smaller and smaller over time. They're not together anymore.

Totally agree with your analysis of Slap League it is just beyond stupid.

I get what you are saying in the second part, but I also think it is important to differentiate what was long term abuse in your friends case and an apparently, by all accounts, isolated incident. Your friends Ex sounds absolutely toxic, I would assume that he probably feels he didn't get out of that relationship fast enough.

[Mota]

Totally agree with your analysis of Slap League it is just beyond stupid.

I get what you are saying in the second part, but I also think it is important to differentiate what was long term abuse in your friends case and an apparently, by all accounts, isolated incident. Your friends Ex sounds absolutely toxic, I would assume that he probably feels he didn't get out of that relationship fast enough.

She was starting to abuse my wife as well. Not as far as hitting her, but she pushed her into a wall once, and grabbed her arm hard enough that she had a bruise on another occasion. So we got out of that situation as well.

[miami_fan]

WWE Drops ‘The Banger Bros’ Name After Finding Out About Bang Bros (https://www.wrestlezone.com/news/1341613-report-wwe-drops-the-banger-bros-team-name-after-finding-out-about-bang-bros)

Why can't they just say that having a tag team named The Banger Bros goes against the sensibilities of a potential buyer?

[RainMaker]

I think what turns me off from the slap league is that you can't defend yourself. I enjoy a good MMA or boxing match because it's two people who can attack and defend. This feels like something you'd see on Jackass but they are playing it serious.

I did tune in for a bit to see the trainwreck, so maybe that's the goal. But I can't fathom caring about who wins or being invested in any of the slappers.

[Toddzilla]

It's not a matter of if someone is going to get paralyzed or killed, it's when.

[dubb93]

Eventually this “sport” will just get to the point where every match is won by the coin flip, right? These guys are all basically untrained at this point. Assuming it isn’t canceled, once they learn to actually throw the slaps it’s just gonna be KO after KO. Am I missing something here? This works a lot better in local bars for a $5 admission fee than it does with professional fighters throwing bombs against defenseless people.

[PilotMan]

It's just a really dumb concept to try and sell as a 'respectable sport'.

It's not even skillful. Just some over pumped machismo.

[dubb93]

I like Cody, but I think they really missed the mark not running that end angle first and having Sami sneak into the Rumble somehow and win it. Based on the crowd reaction at the end of the show this has the potential to turn into a Daniel Bryan/Batista situation where the WWE simply picked the wrong guy.

[miami_fan]

It's just a really dumb concept to try and sell as a 'respectable sport'.

It's not even skillful. Just some over pumped machismo.

I think this is why it has a great chance of success. As a society, we watch grown men punch each other with gloves on. We watch grown men kick each other. We watch grown men get try to choke each other. We are going to turn out collective noses up at watching people slap each other? Is there a more common phrase used by men supposedly preparing to fight than "I will slap the **** out of you."? In a society that is more and more desperate to cling to any vestige of old school masculinity, I am not sure why this can't succeed as long as they make sure someone is there to call it off when required.

[PilotMan]

I think this is why it has a great chance of success. As a society, we watch grown men punch each other with gloves on. We watch grown men kick each other. We watch grown men get try to choke each other. We are going to turn out collective noses up at watching people slap each other? Is there a more common phrase used by men supposedly preparing to fight than "I will slap the **** out of you."? In a society that is more and more desperate to cling to any vestige of old school masculinity, I am not sure why this can't succeed as long as they make sure someone is there to call it off when required.

It could be the new sport for people who only care about such things, not training, or skill, or commitment. Just pumped up men slapping one another because "it's a fantastic display of manhood". Eh...if that's what you want to watch fine, but give me Boxing, give me MMA, give me people who need talent and commitment, not just some dude with a beard who can hold onto a table and take or give a slap. The future of this really doesn't seem beyond a niche sport like Arm Wrestling or Cornhole.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The future of this really doesn't seem beyond a niche sport like Arm Wrestling or Cornhole.

Both of which get minor TV time.

I can't imagine anyone thinks this has a future bigger than that.

[Mota]

I like Cody, but I think they really missed the mark not running that end angle first and having Sami sneak into the Rumble somehow and win it. Based on the crowd reaction at the end of the show this has the potential to turn into a Daniel Bryan/Batista situation where the WWE simply picked the wrong guy.

Imagine they're putting Cody out, doing his generic face promos, with Sami Zayn getting incredible heat for the most captivating storyline the WWE has right now.

They're going to end up putting Zayn in the main event, and you made a good point, it's going to turn the fans against Rhodes, similar to Bautista when Daniel Bryan was on his run.

They're going to job Zayn out at the Feb PPV to try and end that storyline before Wrestlemania, but we'll see if the fans allow that to happen.

[RainMaker]

Curious to see how it turns out. There is a chance that Sami gets the Daniel Bryan treatment from fans and just shits on everything else. Gutsy move to have Sami lose in his hometown and then throw Cody out there the next night to try and get cheers.

Sort of wonder if they end up going the triple threat route (which sucks). Other option is to split the belts up by having Roman work double duty at Wrestlemania. Lose one to Sami and the other to Cody.

[PilotMan]

Rest in Peace Leapin' Lanny.

I really enjoyed his insights and behind the scenes with his brother. Such a talented family.

[BYU 14]

One of the more memorable JTTS's passed away this week as well, the 'Sodbuster' Kenny Jay. Always a staple on AWA TV and I remember popping when he got his upset win over Jacque Goulet. R.I.P to both he and Poffo

[cartman]

get well soon, King

Jerry Lawler suffers stroke at Florida home (https://www.actionnews5.com/2023/02/07/jerry-lawler-suffers-stroke-florida-home/)

[JonInMiddleGA]

Much as I hate Switchblade's departure, at least they got something out of the post-match from it.

The promo that someone cut afterwards (avoiding spoiler just in case anyone cares) was really pretty damned good. I like what they can get out of that if they don't fuck it up.

[dubb93]

Last night in WWE really feels like a missed opportunity. As much as they say no one is willing to grab the brass ring anymore it just seems like anytime anyone gets within reach they add 20 feet to the pole. Last night has to be on the shortlist of hottest crowds in wrestling history and they sent them home disappointed.

[Flasch186]

It almost makes me wonder if Vince is back to being the say in creative.

What a miss. I haven’t watched a ppv of wwe’s in years and I did. I don’t know how they get me to tune in again.

Incredible mistake and I can’t believe someone couldn’t talk sense into whomever was the final decision maker.

I mean, so much so, that they ought to leak an apology in short order or else I’d say they cut their viewership and momentum by 33%.

[Mota]

Now does Cody Rhodes get the same positive fan support on Monday? That's the big question.

Meanwhile, I've actually been watching a decent amount of Stardom recently. It's actually pretty good! Lots of good wrestlers that I'd never heard of before. It's hard because there isn't English commentary, so it is definitely tougher to get into the storylines. The interviews are subtitled though, so you do get a general idea of things. But my NJPW viewing became more rewarding after Kevin Kelly started to do the English commentary.

[dubb93]

Dirt sheets are reporting Vince is back in WWE creative. Not that we needed confirmation if you have been watching the last couple of shows.

[RainMaker]

Last night in WWE really feels like a missed opportunity. As much as they say no one is willing to grab the brass ring anymore it just seems like anytime anyone gets within reach they add 20 feet to the pole. Last night has to be on the shortlist of hottest crowds in wrestling history and they sent them home disappointed.

I feel like this was the perfect time to split the belts. Make the Sami match for the Universal title. Sami wins in his hometown, place goes nuts, million ways to go from there.

Then you have Roman and Cody for the WWE Championship. The title that eluded his father. Sami doesn't hang over that match.

The Roman reign has been great but they've had 2 opportunities now to end it which would have created an enormous pop and momentum for someone. The other being the match in Europe against Drew.

[RainMaker]

Well MJF can still cut a promo.

[dubb93]

Anyone bought one of these AEW PPVs that can tell me how long you have access to them? There isn’t any way we could watch it in one night, but my oldest child wants me to buy it and I’m considering it. We always watch wrestling an hour and a half at a time besides Smackdown which we watch all of.

[Toddzilla]

AEW has an opportunity to make the 4-way Tag match at Revolution palatable by adding FTW to the mix, instead opting for...(checks notes)...Danhausen and Orange Cassidy.

Then they close the go-home Dynamite with a showdown between MJF and Danielson and MJF says....nothing.

WTF is going on

[dubb93]

I had the crazy Bing AI write out a segment for the Royal Rumble that I was calling for back in January. It isn't perfect but you get the gist.

[The scene is backstage at the Royal Rumble. Sami Zayn is walking with his luggage and sees a piece of paper on the floor. He picks it up and looks at it.]

Zayn: What? No way! This can't be right!

[He runs to Adam Pierce's office and knocks on the door.]

Pierce: Come in.

Zayn: [enters] Adam, you have to help me. I found this on the floor and it's a nightmare.

Pierce: What is it?

Zayn: It's an entry number for the Royal Rumble. Look!

[He shows Pierce the paper. It has the number 1 on it.]

Pierce: Oh, wow. That's unlucky.

Zayn: Unlucky? It's a disaster! You know I'm part of the bloodline, right? You know Roman Reigns is my leader and I'm the honorary uce, right? You know he's the Universal Champion and he expects me to support him in everything he does, right?

Pierce: Yeah, I know all that.

Zayn: Then you have to do something! You have to let me out of this match. I don't want to be in the Rumble. I don't want to fight for a shot at Roman's title.

Pierce: Sorry, Sami. But that's not how it works. The numbers are randomly drawn and they're final. You can't surrender your number or withdraw from the match.

Zayn: But how do you even know this is my number? Maybe someone dropped it and I just picked it up by mistake.

Pierce: Well, that's possible. But we have a record of who got which number. And according to our records... [checks his laptop] ...this number belongs to you.

Zayn: No! No! No! This is a conspiracy! This is a setup! Someone is trying to ruin me!

Pierce: Calm down, Sami. Nobody is out to get you.

Zayn: Oh yeah? Then how do you explain this? How do you explain that I have to enter the Rumble first and face 29 other superstars who want to eliminate me? How do you explain that I have to betray Roman's trust and go against his wishes? How do you explain that?

Pierce: Well...that's just how the Rumble works.

Zayn: No! That's not fair! That's not right! That's not loyal!

[Zayn throws the paper on Pierce's desk and storms out of his office.]

Zayn: [shouting] This is ridiculous! This is outrageous! This is unacceptable!

[Pierce sighs and shakes his head.]

Pierce: Good luck out there, Sami.

The AI threw in the fact that The Rock is its favorite wrestler and its favorite Rock moment was in 2011 when he returned to host Wrestlemania and started his fued with John Cena for free.

[RainMaker]

AEW has had some good cards in the past but I have zero interest in Revolution and have lost most of my interest in the promotion as a whole.

Did catch the ladder match last night and it was just weird. Lot of big dangerous spots for a TV match.

[dubb93]

AEW has had some good cards in the past but I have zero interest in Revolution and have lost most of my interest in the promotion as a whole.

Did catch the ladder match last night and it was just weird. Lot of big dangerous spots for a TV match.

Were the camera angles weird or have I just not noticed the refs constantly holding all the ladders and things like that before. I was really taken out of the match by the refs holding the ladders every time someone climbed. Was my first AEW ladder match but I can’t say I’ve ever noticed that before in WWE.

I mean the finish had what, 4 refs holding that ladder so Hobbs could climb it and it was all in the shot that made TV.

[Toddzilla]

Were the camera angles weird or have I just not noticed the refs constantly holding all the ladders and things like that before. I was really taken out of the match by the refs holding the ladders every time someone climbed. Was my first AEW ladder match but I can’t say I’ve ever noticed that before in WWE.

I mean the finish had what, 4 refs holding that ladder so Hobbs could climb it and it was all in the shot that made TV.
Refs typically hold the ladder often, especially when it's wobbly. Usually however the producer is smart enough not to get them on camera.

The ladder Hobbs was using had been used for a bump or two, so it was all fucked up - it couldn't even stand on it's own.

AEW stepping on it's own dick yet again.

[RainMaker]

Yeah, WWE has refs hold the ladder too but they make sure that the refs aren't in the camera shot.

[RainMaker]

Well I didn't like the card for Revolution but it was a hell of a show if you like wrestling. Their PPVs have the best wrestling in the states.

Iron Man match was terrific and MJF held his own and then some.

[dubb93]

I bought the show last night and watched it with my wrestling obsessed son. Was a great show. I did laugh when Samoa Joe was “choked out” and then immediately rolled out of the ring ON CAMERA. They really need to fire whoever is in charge of camera cuts.

[miami_fan]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/08/wwe-betting-scripted-match-results.html

I gotta say, this would have the Montreal Screwjob story much more interesting.

[albionmoonlight]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/08/wwe-betting-scripted-match-results.html

I gotta say, this would have the Montreal Screwjob story much more interesting.

That seems like a HORRIBLE idea. Though someone suing a referee for negligence for missing a run-in and causing them to lose their bet will be hilarious.

[molson]

You can hell who is going to pro wrestling matches based on late odds swings on the offshore betting sites. The insiders definitely already bet. The max bets for those kinds of bets is small, maybe $50 or $100 usually.

[SirFozzie]

I'm pretty sure that wrestling workrate folks were grinding their molars to powder in that Orange Cassidy-Jeff Jarrett match (Cassidy is polarizing, Jarret old and polarizing), but it was definitely a 4* match if you just count enjoyment of a wrestling match, with all Jarrett's fuckery countered (including Cassidy channeling Eddie Guerrero with the fake guitar stuff.)

[PilotMan]

That any company would even consider taking, let alone, actually run odds and take bets on such a thing blows me away.

[Toddzilla]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/03/08/wwe-betting-scripted-match-results.html

I gotta say, this would have the Montreal Screwjob story much more interesting.

Ah, yes, that old boring tale.

[Mota]

That any company would even consider taking, let alone, actually run odds and take bets on such a thing blows me away.

Yes, we already have a track record of insiders that know the results betting on matches at the last minute, causing these massive swings in the odds. It would be a great time to be the booker, you could make infinite money.

[Mota]

Well, I got my ticket for Forbidden Door 2. Hopefully they put together a good card. Obviously last year was an issue because half the AEW roster got injured right before that card.

Now I have to do my best to catch up on the programs, I'm really digging into NJPW right now but am currently at Feb 2020. I could just skip to current stuff, but this is peak NJPW and there's no point in skipping it. I loved the 2019 G1 and Super Jr tournaments, and the Wrestle Kingdom from Jan 2020 was just amazing. AEW I'm watching Nov 2022, I stalled there because it was getting a bit stale to me.

[Mota]

Dola, Monster Factory on Apple TV is definitely worth watching! We've watched the first 2 episodes so far and it is interesting to follow the lives of all these people training to make it big.

[RainMaker]

It's not a style I typically like but that Vikingo guy is pretty crazy.

[JonInMiddleGA]

CNBC (and everybody else now) reporting that UFC-parent Endeavor & the WWE are near an agreement that would created a new entity, 51% controlled by Endeavor & 49% by WWE.

Vince & Dana would remain in place as the heads of their respective lanes, both answering to the Endeavor chairman (whose name escapes me atm)

[Mota]

So I guess the investigation into the hush money and payoffs just goes away? McMahon wins in the end.

[RainMaker]

Genuinely don't understand that finish. I don't think you could setup a better storyline to dethrone Roman.

Like where do you even go from there? Is there a babyface left on the roster to put up against him?

[RainMaker]

Also Shane coming back and blowing out his knee in 30 seconds was genuinely funny.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Also Shane coming back and blowing out his knee in 30 seconds was genuinely funny.

Torn quad, per Trips in the post-match press scrum.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Genuinely don't understand that finish. I don't think you could setup a better storyline to dethrone Roman.

Like where do you even go from there? Is there a babyface left on the roster to put up against him?

Not really.

Best I can figure next would seem to be Lashley? Or Edge? Or Brock?

Or Jay White?

edit to add: among the more popular speculations tonight is that a face turn Jey Uso is actually gonna eventually be the guy.

[RainMaker]

He already beat Edge and Brock. Lashley feels like a big step down and is not nearly as over as other guys he has beat. Orton maybe?

Just feels like a weird decision when you have no credible person waiting.

[JonInMiddleGA]

He already beat Edge and Brock. Lashley feels like a big step down and is not nearly as over as other guys he has beat. Orton maybe?

Just feels like a weird decision when you have no credible person waiting.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FswqUP6aQAE8x0U?format=jpg&name=medium

[RainMaker]

Finn Balor just posted a photo of the gash he got on his head to Twitter. Props to him for finishing the match. That's one of the gnarliest wounds I've seen.

[SirFozzie]

"Hey, it's the Main Event of Wrestlemania. The Grandest Stage of them all. We need something top tier.. whaddaya got?"

"I dunno, all I can think of is the same old bullshit, Bloodline interference and a bullshit ending"

"A rerun of the last two+ years? That's so money."

Fuck off, WWE.

edit in place of dola:

I mean, if you're going to have Reigns retain, do it in a way that excites the crowd. Have Rhodes have it nearly won, and then make that one mistake that leads to Reigns taking over, and then something like three Spears to finish Rhodes. a finish worthy of WrestleFUCKINGMania. Instead it's "Hey, it's "Bloodline saves Roman in a bullshit ending", part XXV!

I mean, it's not like this was the biggest show of the year, 160,000 people over two days./ Who cares that you give them the same type of ending that you would on a general RAW.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Last night's rumor is this morning's news.

The ESPN dot com summary below

A new publicly traded company will house UFC and World Wrestling Entertainment brands, with Endeavor Group Holdings Inc. taking a 51% controlling interest in the new company. Existing WWE shareholders will hold a 49% stake.

The companies put the enterprise value of UFC at $12.1 billion and WWE's value at $9.3 billion.

The new business, which does not yet have a name, will be led by Endeavor CEO Ari Emanuel. Vince McMahon, executive chairman at WWE, will serve in the same role at the new company. Dana White will continue as president of UFC, and Nick Khan will be president at WWE.

[RainMaker]

Torn quad, per Trips in the post-match press scrum.

If you are a McMahon or marry one, it seems like a right of passage at this point. Don't mean to laugh at a serious injury but out of all the things that man has put his body through, it's wild that he gets injured on a leap frog.

It was a bad sign when he sounded totally gassed as he got to the ring.

[RainMaker]

Well it's safe to say Vince is back.

[Toddzilla]

Well it's safe to say WWE is dead

[Toddzilla]

Finn Balor just posted a photo of the gash he got on his head to Twitter. Props to him for finishing the match. That's one of the gnarliest wounds I've seen.They had to staple the wound shut DURING THE MATCH

[JonInMiddleGA]

Jay White is All Elite.

Sigh.

Okay, NOW I'm pissed about Vince's return to creative.

[molson]

On of the more hilarious pro wrestling rumors I can remember reading, is that, (reported by two sources including Meltzer), the current AEW plan is to bring Punk back, but then have a new TV show and soft brand split, with the roster separated by who is willing to be in a locker room with Punk and vice versa. The creation of a separate Punk-verse, if you will.

[Toddzilla]

APW

[JonInMiddleGA]

On of the more hilarious pro wrestling rumors I can remember reading, is that, (reported by two sources including Meltzer), the current AEW plan is to bring Punk back, but then have a new TV show and soft brand split, with the roster separated by who is willing to be in a locker room with Punk and vice versa. The creation of a separate Punk-verse, if you will.

As I've said for quite a while, that company could be interesting if they had any competent leadership whatsoever. Alas ... :(

At least this way maybe the obnoxious half of FTR will finally STFU and stop trying to be Punk's unpaid mouthpiece. They're at just-go-away heat with me simply because I'm sick to death of the steady stream of social media horseshit, nothing they've done / will ever do in the ring is worth enduring the constant blathering.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Paul Heyman is a cheat code.

(the Rhea / Solo bit, he took it from potential cringe to downright entertaining ... and made doing so look effortless)

[Mota]

I just finished watching WrestleMania (one of my only WWE shows of the year).

Zayn/Owens vs. Osos was very good. Loved the crowd pop.
Shane McMahon and any less athletic person (including most MLB players) should make sure to do extensive stretching before any jumping activities (I'm also talking about Edwin Diaz)
Cody Rhodes vs. Roman Reigns didn't feel like a WrestleMania main event to me. Yes, the crowd was over, but it was the same interference finish they always do. It was fun to watch at the time, but it's not going to be one of those matches we're talking about in 2-3 years, let alone 10-20.

Overall it was okay, but with Vince in charge again, wasn't enough to get me back on board again as a regular viewer.

[dubb93]

Zayn/Owens vs. Osos was very good. Loved the crowd pop.

I hate to sound like Jim Cornette, but damn there we a ton of super kicks in that match. Don't those guys know any other moves?

Cody Rhodes vs. Roman Reigns didn't feel like a WrestleMania main event to me. Yes, the crowd was over, but it was the same interference finish they always do. It was fun to watch at the time, but it's not going to be one of those matches we're talking about in 2-3 years, let alone 10-20.

If Cody would have went over the roof would have blown off that place and it would have felt much more like a Wrestlemania main event. Roman going over just sucked the life out of the arena.

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I see a ton of talk about splitting the world titles up again. Am I the only one that prefers only having one world title? I would rather it be on Cody right now, but I sure as hell don't want Cody to get his title without going through Roman.

[Mota]

If you have more than one World title, you have no world titles.

I'm worried about AEW adding another 2 hour show. If you count 2 hours of Dynamite, 1 hour of Rampage, and now 2 hours Saturday night, I think I might be out. I can't watch that much of one company. When Raw went to 3 hours, it killed me and I stopped watching the product about a year later. Too much of a good thing can still be too much.

[Toddzilla]

I can watch 3 hours, but if it goes to 4 or 5, I'll have to watch 0.

[PilotMan]

I just saw that charges were brought against Ted DiBiase Jr in the Mississippi fraud case. He's looking at real time and his dad's ministry, that he was using and working for was ordered to pay nearly 800k in restitution.

[RainMaker]

So I guess there's now a 3rd world championship being added to WWE? Having too many worthless belts is AEW's gimmick.

[Carman Bulldog]

So I guess there's now a 3rd world championship being added to WWE? Having too many worthless belts is AEW's gimmick.

How far is WWE from just having sponsored championships at this point? The Mountain Dew Code Red Champion? The Cinnamon Toast Crunch Champion? The Snickers Undisputed Championship?

[RainMaker]

Is it that much different from the TNT or TBS Championship?


I really hate the multiple world champions in one organization thing that WWE does. Say what you will about Roman and his reign, it at least feels important. His matches are a big deal.

[dubb93]

I quite liked the IC and US titles being elevated by Roman’s reign. Instead of Dolph Ziggler vs Miz we have actually gotten some really big players in the secondary title scene. Seth was chasing it for a while, Drew and Sheamus have chased them, and Bobby Lashley is currently challenging for it. With two world titles in the past you would be lucky to get Chad Gable against Miz for a secondary title.

Multiple world champions in a single promotion has always been lazy booking. It’s how we ended up with a generation of mid carders all holding the world title. SPOILER: those should have been IC and US title matches and reigns. But hey, I’m just an old man yelling at clouds. What do I know?

[RainMaker]

Yeah, I don't mind a good mid-card belt if you're going to make the World title special. I just hate the two world champ, same promotion thing.

[Mota]

Is it that much different from the TNT or TBS Championship?


I really hate the multiple world champions in one organization thing that WWE does. Say what you will about Roman and his reign, it at least feels important. His matches are a big deal.

TV Titles have been a thing for many years, TNT or TBS titles are just another way of doing the same thing.

[Mota]

Yeah, I don't mind a good mid-card belt if you're going to make the World title special. I just hate the two world champ, same promotion thing.

Yeah, Roman won't even be the champion of the WWE, let alone the world, if they split the titles.

[molson]

I think Roman's two belts will be consolidated into one, and, maybe he'll challenge for the new one eventually.

I also wonder if they feel like they have to do something big for the Night of Champions show because it's in Saudi Arabia and a lot of their stars (including their tag team champions) might be sitting it out. And maybe someone on the fence will go thete for a world title.

[dubb93]

My kids are so far down the wrestling rabbit hole that they are begging me to take them to a Fozzy concert this weekend.

Did some research and it's an all ages concert. I'm considering it, they love the band and like to put Fozzy concerts on the TV via youtube and dance around the living room. Any good reason not to take them? Ages 7 and 4, outside concert, school is out for the summer so bedtime is irrelevant.

[JonInMiddleGA]

My kids are so far down the wrestling rabbit hole that they are begging me to take them to a Fozzy concert this weekend.

Did some research and it's an all ages concert. I'm considering it, they love the band and like to put Fozzy concerts on the TV via youtube and dance around the living room. Any good reason not to take them? Ages 7 and 4, outside concert, school is out for the summer so bedtime is irrelevant.

It's a great show, seen them twice now. I don't recall anything untoward (language wise) from the stage or anything, he's a definite showman and Rich Ward is a treat to see from a musicianship standpoint (granted, probably lost on most kids that young)

edit to add: Will's take was "nothing in it stronger than stuff that is said on AEW so if you're fine with it then the concert should be fine"

[dubb93]

It's a great show, seen them twice now. I don't recall anything untoward (language wise) from the stage or anything, he's a definite showman and Rich Ward is a treat to see from a musicianship standpoint (granted, probably lost on most kids that young)

edit to add: Will's take was "nothing in it stronger than stuff that is said on AEW so if you're fine with it then the concert should be fine"

Thanks. I’m less worried about the content of the show and more about the crowd it attracts. I’d much rather have my kids in a pro wrestling fan crowd than a heavy metal crowd for instance.

[Mota]

Thanks. I’m less worried about the content of the show and more about the crowd it attracts. I’d much rather have my kids in a pro wrestling fan crowd than a heavy metal crowd for instance.

I'd personally rather let a random heavy metal fan babysit my small pretend child than a random wrestling fan. Heavy metal unites people.

[dubb93]

I'd personally rather let a random heavy metal fan babysit my small pretend child than a random wrestling fan. Heavy metal unites people.

One heavy metal fan isn’t the issue. LOL. You know what I mean. I’ve been to RAW, Smackdown, and Ozzfest. There is a different mood in the air when Otis wrestles a Maximum Male Model than when Slipknot hits the stage.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Thanks. I’m less worried about the content of the show and more about the crowd it attracts. I’d much rather have my kids in a pro wrestling fan crowd than a heavy metal crowd for instance.

It's a pretty light crowd in terms of intensity, typically older (not quite my age worth of old) than the baseline metal crowd. 0-for-2 on circle pits (though I did see one of those with Stuck Mojo/Rich in a church building once)

[Mota]

One heavy metal fan isn’t the issue. LOL. You know what I mean. I’ve been to RAW, Smackdown, and Ozzfest. There is a different mood in the air when Otis wrestles a Maximum Male Model than when Slipknot hits the stage.

Yes, I wouldn't suggest you bring them into the pit, you can probably safely be off to the side a bit. They won't be able to see at all if you're right in it.
Also at that age, I think they should still have some sound dampening to protect their ears?

[miami_fan]

Per TMZ

Superstar Billy Graham has passed away at the age of 79.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Catching up on the semi-finals of the Best of Super Juniors from NJPW ... it's been a perfectly fine tournament. A diverse group of talents that had quite a few bangers along the way to the semis. Feels like a changing of the guard in the division with many believing that Hiromu (and possibly another major player?) is heavyweight bound sooner than later.

And therein lies the big difference I believe that's upon us: the junior division is certainly stocked with talent, but it's also years if not a decade away from getting anywhere near the level that Hiromu has taken it.

It returns to being an entertaining undercard component, because I don't see anything in the division that can get into a serious main event discussion for a major show. Nothing wrong with that .. but it's definitely going to be different.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And the reason I prefer NJPW to any & all other wrestling promotions ends up on display during one of the semi-finals: Attention to detail.

It's usually done with callbacks, sometimes references that go back five, even ten, years. This time it was more of a "okay, I don't remember the last time I've seen this thing happen"

You have to follow the product, and fairly closely over an extended period to be honest, to get what any number of subtle things mean but if you do then the payoff is there. There's a much higher bar to entry for NJPW fandom, but there's also a higher ceiling afaic.

[Mota]

I agree about the attention to detail. It's exactly the opposite of the WWE. With the WWE, the more you watch, the less it makes sense. Almost as though someone is writing and rewriting it as the show happens, and the continuity is terrible.
With NJPW, the more you watch, the better it is. I'm watching G1 2020 right now, and Okada is trying to get a new finisher over. They're talking about average match lengths, and how it's going to wear down wrestlers in the late stages of the tournament. They're talking about last year's matches, stats and lifetime wins in the G1. It's fantastic.

Have you watched Stardom at all? I have been watching since Nov 2022 and it is also great! The crazy thing is that it's just as hard hitting as NJPW, I've seen some of the hardest hitting dropkicks that I have no idea how jaws weren't broken. Headbutts that drew blood hard way. And some crazy intense feuds (Tam Nakano and Giulia).

Back around November, Mina Shirakawa took a Phoenix Splash that went wrong and it broke her jaw and several teeth. She still went to the back and gave a full interview, saying that she needed to get revenge for taking this damage. And then months later when she came back, they get a rematch, and Kamitani can't do the Phoenix Splash. She freezes on the top rope. Eventually Shirakawa wins, and they have a great moment as Kamitani puts the belt around her and they forgive each other. Really good stuff!

[JonInMiddleGA]

Have you watched Stardom at all? I have been watching since Nov 2022 and it is also great! The crazy thing is that it's just as hard hitting as NJPW, I've seen some of the hardest hitting dropkicks that I have no idea how jaws weren't broken. Headbutts that drew blood hard way. And some crazy intense feuds (Tam Nakano and Giulia).

They had a good chance at getting me into it ... and then they hired "Mercedes Mone" and just felt like they crapped all over their own promotion by doing so.

It felt like "we don't believe in this (as constituted)" and left me feeling like "why should I then?"

[Mota]

Stardom does have a history of bringing in outsiders. Prominence was the 6 person tag champs and they weren't contracted with Stardom. Several of Syuri's recent opponents were also outsiders.
Sasha Banks is also on a per match deal, she's not long term.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I give no shits about Master Wato, and I've been fairly lukewarm about Titan being in LiJ ... but they both did one helluva job in the BoSJ final. It was a banger of a match, the crowd was hot as hell for it, and that IS the job they're supposed to do.

Very well done by both ... as well as whoever acted as the road agent(s) for the match.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The kid channel surfed over to AEW for a bit.

How in the fuck does anybody watch this shit? Good God, this makes WCW look coherent and well booked.

[Mota]

Another 2 hour show for AEW scares the crap outta me. I'd prefer a more coherent set of storylines, and I'm worried it'll be like WWE where they just end up trying to fill time, and you end up with incoherent storylines and matches that are repeated many times.

[JonInMiddleGA]

and you end up with incoherent storylines and matches that are repeated many times.

As we get a meaningless mixed tag match.

All the talent they have / have access to ... and we get this drizzling shit, with drizzling shit commentary as the cherry on top.

I lived through the decline of WCW, I never thought I'd see anything to rival that, yet here's TK killin it.

[RainMaker]

I usually think the AEW PPVs are pretty good, but I can't really bother with the weekly TV show. The recent PPV had a great Fatal 4-way for the title but I just couldn't get into anything else they were doing.

Maybe Tony was a big ECW fan but I don't get why every other match has to be some silly hardcore stipulation. I'm fine with a hardcore match to blow off a big feud, but AEW just has them to have them. There is nothing special about it anymore and almost no one in the company knows how to sell these days.

I also don't get why you still have guys like Jeff Jarrett in title matches on major PPVs. If you want him backstage helping or putting guys over on TV, fine. But out of all the talented tag teams you have in the company you're using him in a match? Come on. Same goes for the Hardys and a few others. I think Christian is good at what he is but I also don't need him in title matches either.

Just a really weird promotion.

[Mota]

The way they use Sting has been great. He rarely gets in the ring. He's been there to give the rub to Darby Allin.
Jeff Jarrett was great as a 1-2 week thing and got some really good heat, but in 2023, that tag team bores me and I fast forward every time.
The roster is definitely way too big. I just looked at the roster on their page, and there are tons of wrestlers who have wrestled less than 5 matches all year. That's just a waste of talent.

[JonInMiddleGA]

The way they use Sting has been great. He rarely gets in the ring. He's been there to give the rub to Darby Allin.

The problem I had with Sting last night specifically had nothing to do with him.

Embassy surrounds the ring after Doofus Darby & Pockets Cassidy win their match. Beatdown looming ... but here comes Sting, slow walking the aisle with his bat. That's still fine by me.

Where it fell apart was, as my astute child pointed out, they just let Sting walk his ass down & slide into the ring, not only no effort to stop him but hell, no effort to impede his progress at all.

Among those surrounding the ring was Brian Cage. Now I've always thought he was an overrated stiff but how weak does he look if he literally steps aside just short of cowering at the approach OF A SIXTY FOUR YEAR OLD MAN !?!?!?

The sequence made the entire stable look like a bunch of buffoons if you thought about what occurred for even half a second.

That ain't Sting's fault.

[RainMaker]

This company has Jay White on the roster and used him as a throw-in in a battle royal for their 3rd tier title.

[Mota]

I give no shits about Master Wato, and I've been fairly lukewarm about Titan being in LiJ ... but they both did one helluva job in the BoSJ final. It was a banger of a match, the crowd was hot as hell for it, and that IS the job they're supposed to do.

Very well done by both ... as well as whoever acted as the road agent(s) for the match.

I'm watching BOSJ 2020 right now, and Master Wato looks like a geek to me. But 2 1/2 years is a lot of time for him to develop.

I've seen pics of the new Yota Tsuji, and he is still a young lion at the point that I'm at. I can't believe how different he looks.

And yes, it's weird that I'm still watching 2020 wrestling, but there are tons of great matches that I would miss forever if I just skipped to today, so I might as well keep watching sequentially. It WILL be weird when I go to Forbidden Door later this month with 3 year's ago knowledge of the NJPW guys though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

As expected, G1 Climax 33 field announced tonight at NJPW Dominion.

And, as I feared, it's a 32 man field this year. That's a LOT of filler.

It'll end up one of two ways:
1) Multiple, and it would need to be several given the amount of questionable entrants, people provide Lance Archer-esque breakout performances and forever change how they're perceived

or

2) There'll be a lot of opportunities for fast-forwarding through matches for anybody watching on a delayed basis

[Mota]

I noticed there's a lot of Jr Heavyweights in there.
Seems interesting though, I guess they do 4 groups of 8? 7 matches each? That's a lot of total matches to put on, though (and watch).
I just finished G1 2020 and found it to be a bit dull. To me, 2019 was one of the best years ever, the G1 and BOSJ tourneys were just incredible.

[Mota]

Forbidden Door matches announced:
Bryan Danielson vs. Okada
Ospreay vs. Omega for IWGP US Title

That's a great start!

[JonInMiddleGA]

I noticed there's a lot of Jr Heavyweights in there.
Seems interesting though, I guess they do 4 groups of 8? 7 matches each? That's a lot of total matches to put on, though (and watch).
I just finished G1 2020 and found it to be a bit dull. To me, 2019 was one of the best years ever, the G1 and BOSJ tourneys were just incredible.

It's a grind, an endurance test for the workers and the viewers.

Last year was almost unwatchable at times, doing 1 match from each block each night destroyed any sense of continuity at no point after a couple days did I feel like I had a clue who was advancing or where anybody stood.

How they'll format it with the even larger blocks this year I don't know.

[cartman]

The Iron Sheik has passed away at the age of 81.

WWE legend The Iron Shiek passes away at 81 (https://www.sportskeeda.com/wwe/news-wwe-legend-the-iron-shiek-passes-away-81)

[SirFozzie]

RIP Shieky Baby..

[Lathum]

Iron Sheik has performed his last camel clutch.

[molson]

Mean Gene/Sheik interviews were amazing.

Gene would would use Sheik's real name, Sheik would call Gene an "intelligent jew businessman".

[RainMaker]

Forbidden Door matches announced:
Bryan Danielson vs. Okada
Ospreay vs. Omega for IWGP US Title

That's a great start!

I haven't had much interest in AEW lately but I'll buy that just for those 2 matches.

[JonInMiddleGA]

MJF to Adam Cole "You have a physique that makes crack whores jealous"

[JonInMiddleGA]

And from the sublime to the ridiculous, from that segment (which kinda under delivered overall tbh) to something with Hook & Jungle Child

[RainMaker]

I liked the MJF segment. Cole was a little cringe in his response but it sort of worked. It's just real tough to go up against MJF on a mic.

[SirFozzie]

My thoughts on the first episode of Collision, taken from elsewhere.

Count me on the side of those not impressed by the opening promo. Why? A couple of reasons. 1) It smacked of the Insider Knowledge "fake shoot comments that are really shoot comments" bs. 2) It didn't do a thing to sell the main event of your very first show. (which is something I'll get back to).

Women's Tag Match: If they don't give Skye Blue some gold in the next six months, they're missing an opportunity. It'd probably have to be new Women's Tag Team Championships, but has anyone had more of a rocket push over the space of a few weeks.

AEI/Buddy Matthews was 10 pounds of great in a six pound bag.

Other than Christian Cage's celebration, did Luchasaurus/Wardlow mean anything or do anything for the TNT title? It feels like we're in a "I dunno what we're going to do with this title going forward, so let's switch it every couple months so it feels like anything can happen". I honestly think that the International Title has moved in front of the TNT title because despite it only having one champion,. it's been defended often, and more and more often, you've been given compelling reasons to watch the match and to guess about what's going to happen.

Miro kicks ass well. Nese takes a ass kicking well. That makes a good segment, but not one I'm sure really deserves to be on the debut episode of a new show.

Now, the main event. First off, I will say in the bounds of what it was, it is a good story they're telling. However, it didn't do a thing really to use the Impetus of Punk's return match to make their opponents. Jay White (especially) and Juice Robinson really could have used this to springboard up in the fans eyes, but did Punk speak about them and build them up in his promo? Did they get a chance to speak on their own behalf? No. That's why, to me at least some of this is "You didn't beat anybody because you made no body" (Sorry, Bully Ray, for butchering your oft-quoted promo). We KNOW Joe's an ass kicker, but from an AEW centric point of view, is there any reason one of your top stars in his return match ISN'T going to go over two guys who are fairly new to the company and haven't been placed at Punk's level? It's almost literally "These are guys who Punk can have a good match with for workrate with no doubt who wins", and the fact that there was no real promo time or buildup from either side of it proves it.

Combined, makes me put this in the good but not great side with glaring holes

(I forgot to give One Dill Pickle Phil (sorry, couldn't resist) deserved props for taking the LGBT sign into the ring post-show. )

edit:

and one last bit that may explain my antipathy towards the show. I am a fan of AEW. Will freely admit it. It seemed to me like two major parts of Collision were rewarding people who were assholes (off screen) in AEW. That being Punk and AEI. It feels weird that they're getting rewarded for being off-screen assholes.



I'm going to use a pretty weird analogy here, but if AEW is a skyscraper under forever construction, the actions of AEI and Punk came off more like someone taking a wrecking ball to the skyscraper from the inside, and being rewarded for it. Weird analogy, but while I think they're good wrestlers, I don't think their past actions towards the company they were contracted for deserved being rewarded with a whole show dedicated to them

[JonInMiddleGA]

My offspring had a morbid curiosity so I had to endure Saturday Nitro.

I could weep at Kevin Kelly - the best in the business right now afaic - being associated with this abomination but we all got bills to pay I guess.

I'll just toss a few random observations in, with full acknowledgement that I consider AEW - as it has evolved - to be the worst thing to happen to professional wrestling since Vince Russo got a job.|

-- Skye Blue looked at least 4-5 years away from being ready for TV to me. And don't even get me started on Willow. It's not either of their faults, I don't blame them personally, but neither should be anywhere near a TV taping without buying a ticket.

-- I couldn't care less about Miro but I thought that match was actually booked/agented fairly well

-- Cage/Lucha deal seemed to be mostly about setting up their eventual split and a Luchasaurus face turn. They didn't make enough of it but if you could read Cage's lips/hear the faint audio when he's on the turnbuckle he says "I did it", while ignoring the poor dino completely.

-- for as many shit show elements as there are with AEW, perhaps none (other than poor ol' JR) is worse than the godawful ring announcer chick. She's horrific.

-- Andrade/Matthews was fine, both worked harder than the situation deserved. And bonus points for the dumbass ring announcer calling him Buddy Murphy in the introductions

-- White had so little involvement in the ring tonight I seriously wonder if he's nursing an injury. That was almost Tanahashi level of not doing much other than being there. Joe actually looked better than I'd seen him look in a while.

[SirFozzie]

Kelly really had an off night with several flubs, but hopefully it's first night jitters.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Kelly really had an off night with several flubs, but hopefully it's first night jitters.

Yeah, I caught a couple of those at least.

But for the love of all that's decent, PLEASE get JR off the air. It's pitiful.

[Carman Bulldog]

Count me on the side of those not impressed by the opening promo. Why? A couple of reasons. 1) It smacked of the Insider Knowledge "fake shoot comments that are really shoot comments" bs. 2) It didn't do a thing to sell the main event of your very first show. (which is something I'll get back to).

They put themselves in a weird spot, because if you just ignore it entirely, people would complain about that as well.

[SirFozzie]

yeah. But he needed to at least acknowledge that he had a match tonight and that defeating samoa joe and jay white (to be fair, Juice is not on that level) was a step that he needed to take to get to that level where what's in the bag (probably his old title) would come into play.

[SirFozzie]

Yeah, I caught a couple of those at least.

But for the love of all that's decent, PLEASE get JR off the air. It's pitiful.

Apparently he had a fall before this, which would explain the black eye and hoarseness he had

[JonInMiddleGA]

Apparently he had a fall before this, which would explain the black eye and hoarseness he had

Last night was not isolated by any means, that's the root of my criticism.

I won't lie, I still haven't gotten over the absolutely abominable "work" he did for NJPW on AXS. That was straight up thievery of every dime he ever took from them.

But his work in AEW hasn't been much better. He's a day late and a dollar short of being useful every time he opens his mouth at this point.

Is it simply age? Is it lack of interest? Is it lack of preparation? Is it lack of effort? A combination of several of these?

I don't know and I hesitate to attempt a definitive answer. Thing is, whatever the cause it doesn't change how atrocious his past several years on air have been.

[Mota]

I've watched a lot of Jim Ross lately, and he's just a shell of the announcer he used to be. When he first started, a large part had to do with him not knowing many of the wrestlers. He'd get names wrong, be confused over storylines, etc. Now I think it's due to his health and mental condition, he's just not as sharp as he used to be. It's really time for him to realize this himself and to retire. And there's nothing wrong with that. I'd rather remember the great years anyways.

As for CM Punk, all of this bickering and in-fighting isn't going to turn into money, and I'm afraid this is the thing that will cause AEW to go down a bad path. If you keep Punk but several other wrestlers leave when their contracts elapse, I don't think it's worth it, because Punk is a cancer to the company at this point.

[Toddzilla]

I was as big a CM Punk fan as anyone back in the day, but for the love of god he needs to shut up and go away

[JonInMiddleGA]

If you keep Punk but several other wrestlers leave when their contracts elapse, I don't think it's worth it, because Punk is a cancer to the company at this point.

I think he's beyond that, he's a cancer to the business itself. I mean, there isn't anywhere he can go that he wouldn't be a negative influence.

[miami_fan]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I apologize for the way I sounded tonight. <br><br>Going to step away to heal. <br><br>Thanks for your support. <br><br>🤠</p>&mdash; Jim Ross (@JRsBBQ) <a href="https://twitter.com/JRsBBQ/status/1670271806668787712?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 18, 2023</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

We always say that the great athlete is the last one to know that they are no longer a great athlete. Maybe it is the same with the great announcers. Or maybe JR being a huge college football fan remembers Bear Bryant. Can he walk away from being behind the mic?

I went down a mini wrestling announcer rabbit hole. Gordon Solie retired at 66. Lance Russell was pretty much done at 69.

[RainMaker]

I think JR is just old and has had a lot of health issues over the years. Plus around 40+ years of constant travel is tough.

Can't really blame him either. It's AEW who is putting him on the air when he has no business being on TV anymore.

[dubb93]

Is CM Punk a draw for AEW? I haven't paid attention, but did ratings, buy rates, and attendance go up when he showed up and back down when he left? Otherwise I simply don't understand why you would do business with him.

He just always comes off a miserable know it all and it clearly isn't a character he is playing. It's just who he is.

[RainMaker]

Is CM Punk a draw for AEW? I haven't paid attention, but did ratings, buy rates, and attendance go up when he showed up and back down when he left? Otherwise I simply don't understand why you would do business with him.

He just always comes off a miserable know it all and it clearly isn't a character he is playing. It's just who he is.

I believe they were pretty good with him, although not earth shattering.

My guess is they feel that the company desperately needs mainstream star power. Especially now that WWE has improved quite a bit in the past year. And Tony Kahn being a huge mark for wrestlers he liked growing up.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Toronto crowd for Collision decidedly anti-Punk. Despite the fact they're facing BC Gold.

There's gonna be no choice but to turn him/his allies full heel. Outside of Chicago nobody wants any part of this fuckwit.

[RainMaker]

The only way it was going to work is if he came back as a heel. And to be honest, I never have found him that interesting as a face.

He's no longer the underdog and he no longer has a big corporation he can be the antihero fighting against. And his wrestling is nowhere near where it needs to be to compete with some of the folks on that roster.