there are P{ERMANENT pellets?!~?~?

Whatg do you call Delta and Omicron? Any covid power pellet should have expired by now :P

sorryantivaxxer.com | A repository of stories of anti-vaxxers who died or came close to dying of COVID. (https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/)

I'm pretty much resigned to getting it, especially when classes resume, but that's the driving force behind me behind vaxed/boosted. If you aren't protected, getting covid is just playing Russian roulette with the chamber holding extra bullets if you are older or have comorbidities.

I used that same Russian roulette analogy with my anti-vax sister 2 days before Christmas when she told me she was bringing my 81 year old unvaccinated Mom to her house for Christmas. My sister has 3 daughters all married with kids so the house had 15-20 unvaccinated Trump loyalists there.
My sister, her husband, 2 daughters and their husbands, and 2 children under 5 years old all tested positive and my Mom is in the hospital right now fighting for her life with covid.
People are fucking idiots !!!

I'm really sorry about your Mom. I really hope she makes it.

sorryantivaxxer.com | A repository of stories of anti-vaxxers who died or came close to dying of COVID. (https://www.sorryantivaxxer.com/)

/r/HermanCainAward is compelling reading on reddit. Filled with people spending their lives mocking vaccinated people on social media all day, only to die at a hospital while blaming the doctors and nurses.

Though I do like the additional commentary and context provided by sorryantivaxxer.com

I used that same Russian roulette analogy with my anti-vax sister 2 days before Christmas when she told me she was bringing my 81 year old unvaccinated Mom to her house for Christmas. My sister has 3 daughters all married with kids so the house had 15-20 unvaccinated Trump loyalists there.
My sister, her husband, 2 daughters and their husbands, and 2 children under 5 years old all tested positive and my Mom is in the hospital right now fighting for her life with covid.
People are fucking idiots !!!

Jesus I can't imagine. Hope your mom is ok and this is a wake up call for everyone.

Man that's pretty awful-hope your Mom survives and all others recover quickly. And maybe just learn a lesson

/r/HermanCainAward is compelling reading on reddit. Filled with people spending their lives mocking vaccinated people on social media all day, only to die at a hospital while blaming the doctors and nurses.

Though I do like the additional commentary and context provided by sorryantivaxxer.com

And there's an r/HCA page or two on the front page of r/all every day. I mean, there could be some karma farming going on there, but most of them seem legit.

SI

Yikes. Good luck, Silver Owl.

Pretty sure I got COVID from my son. Woke up with mild symptoms this morning. Coughing, running nose, sore throat, kind of a cloudy mind, almost like a cold.

And there's an r/HCA page or two on the front page of r/all every day. I mean, there could be some karma farming going on there, but most of them seem legit.

SI

You can usually find the posts and people on Facebook with a little trickery. Which I admit I've done out of morbid curiosity - though I've certainly never posted anything on those pages. There's a pretty similar pattern - many many hateful/mocking political meme posts a day, mixed in with God memes and family photos. And then the last post is always, "Aunt Anti-vaxxer has gone to be with her heavenly father to live in eternal paradise." The cause of death is usually omitted. I've never actually known someone like this in real life (and I know a lot of Lutherans, who do not generally hate meme on social media), but I can certainly now understand others' descriptions of their Facebook experiences that are so much different than mine.

Back when I thought the "Jim didn't believe in COVID, and now's he dead. Please get vaxxed" stories would move people to get vaccinated, I liked them.

Now they just make me sad. I don't like anyone dying of a preventable disease, even if they "deserve" it in a karma-based way.

I completely understand how people cannot gin up any empathy or sympathy for anti-vaxxers getting COVID. But I'm just sad and tired at this point and feel bad for everyone.

You can usually find the posts and people on Facebook with a little trickery. Which I admit I've done out of morbid curiosity - though I've certainly never posted anything on those pages. There's a pretty similar pattern - many many hateful/mocking political meme posts a day, mixed in with God memes and family photos. And then the last post is always, "Aunt Anti-vaxxer has gone to be with her heavenly father to live in eternal paradise." The cause of death is usually omitted. I've never actually known someone like this in real life (and I know a lot of Lutherans, who do not generally hate meme on social media), but I can certainly now understand others' descriptions of their Facebook experiences that are so much different than mine.

In my experience, Lutherans mostly snark meme on social media (or the run-of-the-mill sappy inspirational stuff from every religion). As I like to (half) joke - we're a religion of complainers: just look at how we started.

SI

Yikes. Good luck, Silver Owl.

Pretty sure I got COVID from my son. Woke up with mild symptoms this morning. Coughing, running nose, sore throat, kind of a cloudy mind, almost like a cold.


take care Spleen!

I used that same Russian roulette analogy with my anti-vax sister 2 days before Christmas when she told me she was bringing my 81 year old unvaccinated Mom to her house for Christmas. My sister has 3 daughters all married with kids so the house had 15-20 unvaccinated Trump loyalists there.
My sister, her husband, 2 daughters and their husbands, and 2 children under 5 years old all tested positive and my Mom is in the hospital right now fighting for her life with covid.
People are fucking idiots !!!

Yikes. Good luck to you and your mom.

I have a HS friend that was anti-vax and has now flipped to pro-vax after his aunt and cousin died and his mom went into ICU. I don't understand it.

Thanks guys, but there is absolutely zero chance that this will change their minds.

I used that same Russian roulette analogy with my anti-vax sister 2 days before Christmas when she told me she was bringing my 81 year old unvaccinated Mom to her house for Christmas. My sister has 3 daughters all married with kids so the house had 15-20 unvaccinated Trump loyalists there.
My sister, her husband, 2 daughters and their husbands, and 2 children under 5 years old all tested positive and my Mom is in the hospital right now fighting for her life with covid.
People are fucking idiots !!!

Awful story man, just awful. So sorry to hear it. I don't know how you have any sort of relationship with your sister after that. If I knew that I was responsible for sending mom to the hospital to fight for her life I don't know how I would get over it.

And not just the generic "people" are fucking idiots. These people are fucking idiots.

Best wishes to you & family Silver Owl and Spleen

Just had to get my daughter from school because she has a headache and her fever was 100. Off for a covid test. I am so over this shit.

Good luck, man.

Awful story man, just awful. So sorry to hear it. I don't know how you have any sort of relationship with your sister after that. If I knew that I was responsible for sending mom to the hospital to fight for her life I don't know how I would get over it.

And not just the generic "people" are fucking idiots. These people are fucking idiots.

I have 3 sisters and they are all anti-vax Trump people and it is hard for me to admit that my relationship with all 3 is probably beyond repair at this point. I finally had enough over the last few days and got a lot off my chest that they didn't want to hear. (BTW, I'm Tim McM over at JBL)

I think I mentioned earlier that I have a gaming acquaintance with multiple underlying conditions who refused to get vaccinated and spent a month or so on a ventilator, and several months on oxygen. He just informed us he has got Covid again.

I have 3 sisters and they are all anti-vax Trump people and it is hard for me to admit that my relationship with all 3 is probably beyond repair at this point. I finally had enough over the last few days and got a lot off my chest that they didn't want to hear. (BTW, I'm Tim McM over at JBL)

II think I mentioned earlier that I have a gaming acquaintance with multiple underlying conditions who refused to get vaccinated and spent a month or so on a ventilator, and several months on oxygen. He just informed us he has got Covid again.

Do these people believe that there is no difference in probability of outcomes between vaccinated v. unvaccinated, that the probable harm of the vaccine is greater than the probable harm of COVID, or, just that the vaccine is like a liberal badge that they're rather die than put on?

It seems like the "COVID is a hoax" angle that was the more predominant one isn't really an option once you're personally faced with it. Though I have seen a few Herman Cain Award posts where the patient refused to believe they had COVID all the way through the respirator and to the end. Or that COVID is no big deal if treated with horse dewormer but that the hospitals refuse to give that treatment by order of Biden who wants to kill them. Which is kind of an acknowledgment of COVID's seriousness.

/r/HermanCainAward is compelling reading on reddit. Filled with people spending their lives mocking vaccinated people on social media all day, only to die at a hospital while blaming the doctors and nurses.

Though I do like the additional commentary and context provided by sorryantivaxxer.com

HCA is a deep dark dive but there is some helpful info there. For example if you don't want to get vaxxed/have a compromised immunity I would at least monitor blood oxygen levels periodically. Seems like once you hit a certain low point on that it becomes a pretty big chance you'll die.

Just had to get my daughter from school because she has a headache and her fever was 100. Off for a covid test. I am so over this shit.

Fucking hell....positive.

She got tested that quickly?

I've been waiting for days and I don't get tested until tomorrow.

She got tested that quickly?

I've been waiting for days and I don't get tested until tomorrow.

yeah. Took her to the pediatrician who did it right there. Called 30 minutes later. Her head hurts a bit otherwise she is fine. 10 day mandatory quarantine with virtual schooling. Her older brother is vaxed so he can still attend in person school as long as he has no symptoms. Going to keep him home a couple days to be safe.

Waning immunity from past infection and/or vaccination will keep COVID around, but at least there's more and more evidence that Omicron can kill far fewer people (by percentage) and is so transmissible that Delta probably won't stick around.

I think there's hope that once we weather the crush of new Omicron cases, we can enter the post-COVID phase of life.

I don't think it helps to blame anti-vaxxers - it looks like Omicron will eliminate Delta and vaccinated people get Omicron almost as easily as unvaccinated.

However... those who are vaccinated probably won't die. So maybe those Darwin awards are justified, but the unvaccinated aren't the reason we're dealing with this right now. You could also look at it like a timing issue - those who are vaccinated aren't being vaccinated all as one world-wide group. Immunity wanes. Omicron is also wreaking havoc in countries that are more vaccinated than the US.

We will certainly, some day soon, get to a point where COVID doesn't rule our lives (for the most part, that was the case in many places until Omicron). Will we get through the division and hate this is causing? It's too bad there isn't a vaccine for hating people because they look a little different or have different beliefs.

I think there's hope that once we weather the crush of new Omicron cases, we can enter the post-COVID phase of life.



Cynical hanging-by-a-string some days me thinks this is maybe the 5th time this carrot was put in front of us.

"Just avoid your friends and family and traveling and having fun a little longer...."

So it's hard to care or heed any warnings.

A few months ago, a friend who can be prone to believing conspiracy theory stuff asked me what I thought about the Covid vaccine and we had a nice discussion (no conspiracy theories mentioned).

Fast forward to last weekend and he came over and proudly told me he got his first two doses since we last talked and said he felt foolish for being hesitant in the first place. I didn’t think too many people were sitting on the fence at this point in time but they are out there.

Do these people believe that there is no difference in probability of outcomes between vaccinated v. unvaccinated, that the probable harm of the vaccine is greater than the probable harm of COVID, or, just that the vaccine is like a liberal badge that they're rather die than put on?


My sisters and Mom believe that there is no difference between getting and not getting the vaccine. Anything I try to show them that says otherwise comes from a liberal source so its not true. I have been fighting this battle for months and am done with it. You can't fix stupid.

Cynical hanging-by-a-string some days me thinks this is maybe the 5th time this carrot was put in front of is.

"Just avoid your friends and family and traveling and having fun a little longer...."

So it's hard to care or heed any warnings.

I guess living in a part of the country where life will go on regardless gives me a different perspective. We originally talked about herd immunity - and it doesn't really apply well to these viruses that can mutate so effectively.

It's terrible what happened - so many people have died. And there are still those, especially among the elderly, who have isolated and vaccinated and still might be at significant risk.

But what can we do once the overwhelming majority have enough antibodies and pure genetic luck to live in a world where you can still get sick? What do we do about the kids who are extremely unlikely to get seriously ill, but the damage from isolation and school closings adds up? We're starting to get studies about what happens to younger children living in a world where they can't see people speak.

Nothing definitive yet, I think. But an issue worth watching. I know it's a different world for me, being hearing impaired - people can be talking to me and wearing a mask and they might as well be speaking Latin until I can "tune in" on their voice somehow. But I have the life experience to put these interactions in context so that it doesn't affect me. Kids don't have that yet.

I think of the popular movie "Boy in a Plastic Bubble" from when I was a kid - John Travolta in his most meaningful role. Eventually, and maybe we're almost there now, those who would die from COVID will be a little like that. Get the vaccine - for themselves, not for society. Eventually take responsibility for their own decisions, as Travolta did.

Even before immunity were talking about "flattening the curve".

I remember some discussions before the vaccine about what the world be like if an effective vaccine couldn't be developed. The consensus seemed to be that that was a world we would just have to live with if it came to that. The vaccine was the expected flashpoint to where we would see where things were going. But it just made things more confusing.

saw a story that in 6-8 weeks, half of Europe will be infected with Omicron. I'm hoping that means "Has had at least one Omicron infection" and not "Currently infected"

And amid everything else, my Covid test comes back negative.

"I can't say you didn't have it, I can only say that you don't have an active transmittable case now"

However... those who are vaccinated probably won't die. So maybe those Darwin awards are justified, but the unvaccinated aren't the reason we're dealing with this right now. You could also look at it like a timing issue - those who are vaccinated aren't being vaccinated all as one world-wide group. Immunity wanes. Omicron is also wreaking havoc in countries that are more vaccinated than the US.

This is a gradation thing, not a binary thing. Two-dose mRNA vaccines still show some efficacy against transmissability and a good amount of efficacy against serious symptoms. Two doses plus booster jumps those a good bit, especially the latter.

So, this is an averages thing, and, with Omnicron, the unvaccinated both pull up the R0 average, and (dramatically) the hospitalization average. While it's true to say "the unvaccinated aren't the reason we're dealing with this right now" (depending on your definition of "this"), it's also true that if most of them were vaccinated, we'd see somewhat less transmissability (good, perhaps, for avoiding additional variants, though probably irrelevant given the lack of worldwide vaccine penetration) and significantly less hospitalization (really, really, important given that hospitals being overrun means less availability for non-COVID needs - thinking of Jon's wife, here).


It's terrible what happened - so many people have died. And there are still those, especially among the elderly, who have isolated and vaccinated and still might be at significant risk.

But what can we do once the overwhelming majority have enough antibodies and pure genetic luck to live in a world where you can still get sick? What do we do about the kids who are extremely unlikely to get seriously ill, but the damage from isolation and school closings adds up? We're starting to get studies about what happens to younger children living in a world where they can't see people speak.

With this, I agree, especially once we get past this winter/omnicron surge. The impact on isolated elderly, kids' education, kids' happiness (how many have already missed half of high school or half of college?), parents' sanity, etc... just has to be too deleterious for society as a whole.

But we also need to realize that there's going to be more mutations, more overwhelming of hospitals, all simply because those unvaccinated aren't going to get vaccinated. Without a higher vaccination rate, we do consign ourselves to some sort of new variant fire drill here and there, including a potentially just-as-transmissable-but-considerably-more-deadly version we haven't seen yet.

So, if you want some semblance of normality, advocate for vaccination. It's that simple.

I would say based on the flare-ups we've seen globally even in countries with 90% vaccination rates, you could hit 100% and it would still be an issue. The more vaccinated the better obviously, I totally agree with that. We would be in a better situation if that number was higher. It wouldn't be anything approaching 'normal' though.

That's not the way to normality. The way to normality - primarily - is to simply accept that this is part of life. Not saying that to be callous on how scary that is for a percentage of people. It's just the way it is.

Do these people believe that there is no difference in probability of outcomes between vaccinated v. unvaccinated, that the probable harm of the vaccine is greater than the probable harm of COVID, or, just that the vaccine is like a liberal badge that they're rather die than put on?

I think all of that is part of it. How many are in each boat ... unsure. There are people who are legit 'it's a hoax'. They flat-out deny that people are dying of COVID, call the vaccine the 'cemetery shot', etc. These people are generally impervious to evidence to the contrary. The 'softer hoax' people are the ones you see changing their minds once it affects their personal circle, as they didn't think it was real when it didn't affect them, note that most people survive it and aren't hospitalized, etc. There are some people who - wrongly ofc - are more worried about the vaccine side-effects than those of the virus. And definitely part of the 'nope, because liberals want me to' crowd as well. And more buckets of people beyond these, if you want to really get detailed.

Yeah, as I said, the best we're going to get is a semblance of normality, not normality itself. But we're better off the more people get vaccinated.

More people vaccinated worldwide means fewer chances for future mutations because of fewer possible hosts.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">WI GOP State Rep. Treig Pronschinske, in support of a law banning business from requiring vaccines, says that there is no way to prevent covid since you “can’t physically see the virus.”<a href="https://t.co/SLe2W3fhj2">pic.twitter.com/SLe2W3fhj2</a></p>&mdash; Ron Filipkowski (@RonFilipkowski) <a href="https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1481446345579843585?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 13, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Party of free speech, right?

I think I mentioned earlier that I have a gaming acquaintance with multiple underlying conditions who refused to get vaccinated and spent a month or so on a ventilator, and several months on oxygen. He just informed us he has got Covid again.
And he is now back in the hospital. He's hoping the new treatments will keep him off the vent this time.

Looks like SCOTUS allows the CMS mandate but not the OSHA one.

Not a legal mind here, but, from the sounds of it, this was kindof expected, especially since the conservative court has already started going after the administrative parts of government and is trying to get rid of the Chevron deference. Does that sound about right, lawyers?

SI

You can usually find the posts and people on Facebook with a little trickery. Which I admit I've done out of morbid curiosity - though I've certainly never posted anything on those pages. There's a pretty similar pattern - many many hateful/mocking political meme posts a day, mixed in with God memes and family photos. And then the last post is always, "Aunt Anti-vaxxer has gone to be with her heavenly father to live in eternal paradise." The cause of death is usually omitted. I've never actually known someone like this in real life (and I know a lot of Lutherans, who do not generally hate meme on social media), but I can certainly now understand others' descriptions of their Facebook experiences that are so much different than mine.

you missed the
1. prayer warriors unite around antivaxxer with goatee or obvious health concerns
2. we set up a go fund me, please help.

Glenn Beck has COVID again and this time its spread to his lungs.

The Gofundmes are infuriating.

And he is now back in the hospital. He's hoping the new treatments will keep him off the vent this time.

That can't be cheap.

He is on Disability and Medicare.

Sent from my SM-G996U using Tapatalk

This is instructive...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Great real time example of how pointing out basic facts often does very little to change someone’s mind once they’ve bought into so much misinformation <a href="https://t.co/jtmIWZHgMY">https://t.co/jtmIWZHgMY</a></p>&mdash; Brian Tashman (@briantashman) <a href="https://twitter.com/briantashman/status/1481763912689369095?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 13, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Once you have "done your own research" by leafing through some facebook posts and having people you sought out whisper to you their truth, and so forth... your shell really hardens. Tough for actual information to gain any purchase.

This is instructive...

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Great real time example of how pointing out basic facts often does very little to change someone’s mind once they’ve bought into so much misinformation <a href="https://t.co/jtmIWZHgMY">https://t.co/jtmIWZHgMY</a></p>&mdash; Brian Tashman (@briantashman) <a href="https://twitter.com/briantashman/status/1481763912689369095?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 13, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Once you have "done your own research" by leafing through some facebook posts and having people you sought out whisper to you their truth, and so forth... your shell really hardens. Tough for actual information to gain any purchase.


There's no grift or money to be made by being pro vax right now. There's a rumor that Rogan is actually vaccinated but sees moving forward with his anti-vax stance as more profitable. To the point where he felt the money lost by canceling the show in Canada was worth it in the long run.

Well Walgreens says I'm positive. Nice knowing you all.

Well Walgreens says I'm positive. Nice knowing you all.

I hope for mild symptoms that resolve quickly.

Well Walgreens says I'm positive. Nice knowing you all.

Hope you get better soon

... but that isn't as important as your other update? :)

Well Walgreens says I'm positive. Nice knowing you all.

Can I have your stuff?

I can't believe I don't have it, and, more specifically, that my kids don't have it. Their schools have been overrun (and still haven't switched to virtual). But no positive tests in the household so far! It continues to feel like it's only a matter of time, or that we all got it and were asymptomatic and didn't test on the right days to catch it. What a world.

Can I have your stuff?

There's to be a fight to a death at my funeral. Winner takes all.

My symptoms earlier this week lasted about a day. My son had them for about 36 hours or so. I am getting tested this afternoon just to see if I have it. I don't know if I will show positive if my symptoms were on Tuesday.

Apparently, all of the unvaxxed players on my daughter's softball team came back to school with it after the holiday break. All of them have tested positive and have symptoms. None of the vaxxed are showing symptoms so they haven't been tested. I'm assuming they all have it at this point.

Hope you get better soon

... but that isn't as important as your other update? :)


There's to be a fight to a death at my funeral. Winner takes all.

"And here at the estate sale, we move on to lot number 47. It is a rejected letter to a publisher with notes for a dating book here called 'How to be Cocky and Funny' with a foreword by Kyle"

SI

Hope that all here who test positive have mild symptoms and quick recoveries

"And here at the estate sale, we move on to lot number 47. It is a rejected letter to a publisher with notes for a dating book here called 'How to be Cocky and Funny' with a foreword by Kyle"

SI

I'd fight to the death for that.

Hope all impacted get better soon.

I'm really trying hard to understand the purpose of testing with no symptoms.

If you have close contact but no symptoms and are fully vaccinated, the recommendation is to get tested after 5 days. I did this. I was told a rapid test is unreliable and a full PCR test is needed. It got sent to a lab and took 5 days for results. So at that point, it's fully stale information. If it's positive, that was 5 days ago (let's even say 3 days if a test comes back a little quicker) and I still have no symptoms, so I've been living my life, masked. Now that I'm positive, guidance is to isolate for 5 days and wear a mask an additional 5 days. But I've already blown through the 5 day isolation period? So WTF cares anymore? I'm back to ... mask for 5 days?!

I'm frustrated because my daughter is in the same boat now, but with the complication of playing HS basketball. Two teammates tested positive this week and the season is continuing as usual. Coach emailed everyone to strongly encourage everyone to get tested this weekend and if you have any symptoms, stay away. My daughter is symptom-free. That means a PCR test and wait for results. In the interim, she'll be practicing and playing games. If she comes back positive, the damage is already done because of the delay in test results - plus, she has to sit out even with no symptoms.

It seems useless to test if there's that kind of lag in results. It made sense during 2020 when we were mostly sitting in our houses with limited interactions, but now, we're supposed to go about our normal lives and then act on stale information if a positive results comes back.

She's a senior and has like a dozen games left in her career. Unless she has symptoms or is forced to test, I'm not testing her on the off-chance she has to miss games because she now knows she had Covid several days ago and may not have it now (which we won't know for ... 3-5 more days!).

My county gives us results w/in 12 hours, so testing after contact makes sense.

I agree that any lag in results makes testing pointless.

sliver of good news:

Data is coming in, and it looks like lockdowns did not/do not have the negative mental health affects on kids (increased suicides, etc.) that we had feared they might:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">/1 THREAD: I knew this day would come. <br><br>While pediatric societies &amp; &quot;hospital organizations&quot; did &quot;science by press release,&quot; breathlessly discussing a correlation on a parent survey or releasing a statement about 1 month of admissions in May 2021, I knew we would get REAL DATA.</p>&mdash; Tyler Black, MD (@tylerblack32) <a href="https://twitter.com/tylerblack32/status/1481734046543716356?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 13, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Anecdotal counterpoint - all my friends' kids are unpleasant weirdos now.

That may be unrelated to COVID though.

I'm really trying hard to understand the purpose of testing with no symptoms.

If you have close contact but no symptoms and are fully vaccinated, the recommendation is to get tested after 5 days. I did this. I was told a rapid test is unreliable and a full PCR test is needed. It got sent to a lab and took 5 days for results. So at that point, it's fully stale information. If it's positive, that was 5 days ago (let's even say 3 days if a test comes back a little quicker) and I still have no symptoms, so I've been living my life, masked. Now that I'm positive, guidance is to isolate for 5 days and wear a mask an additional 5 days. But I've already blown through the 5 day isolation period? So WTF cares anymore? I'm back to ... mask for 5 days?!

I'm frustrated because my daughter is in the same boat now, but with the complication of playing HS basketball. Two teammates tested positive this week and the season is continuing as usual. Coach emailed everyone to strongly encourage everyone to get tested this weekend and if you have any symptoms, stay away. My daughter is symptom-free. That means a PCR test and wait for results. In the interim, she'll be practicing and playing games. If she comes back positive, the damage is already done because of the delay in test results - plus, she has to sit out even with no symptoms.

It seems useless to test if there's that kind of lag in results. It made sense during 2020 when we were mostly sitting in our houses with limited interactions, but now, we're supposed to go about our normal lives and then act on stale information if a positive results comes back.

She's a senior and has like a dozen games left in her career. Unless she has symptoms or is forced to test, I'm not testing her on the off-chance she has to miss games because she now knows she had Covid several days ago and may not have it now (which we won't know for ... 3-5 more days!).

I decided this morning to cancel my test for this afternoon. Someone who really needs it should get tested.

I stay at home 98% of the time and the only people I will see in the near future are my wife and son. My son is headed home tomorrow.

While ready your post I was thinking I just wouldn't have my daughter tested. If anyone asks, I would say she didn't test positive and let it be. I guess you can 'Aaron Rodgers' people. :) You don't have to say she tested negative. Just say she didn't test positive. Let her have the rest of her senior year.

After I wrote my post above, I went to workout and got a call from my daughter that tonight's game is off. Not for Covid on her team, but the other team. I sure hope this peaks and recedes quickly or the end of basketball and the start of spring sports are going to be severely hampered/compromised. Again...

sliver of good news:

Data is coming in, and it looks like lockdowns did not/do not have the negative mental health affects on kids (increased suicides, etc.) that we had feared they might:

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None of that should be surprising. The "increase in suicide" crowd was just using it as an excuse to get kids back to school. Pressures from school/work is a large contributing factor to suicides in general, and time taken out of those pressure cooker situations is going to be pluses to mental health for most. The only caveat would be for people in abusive situations, but you would hope that would be a tiny fraction of people.
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sliver of good news:

Data is coming in, and it looks like lockdowns did not/do not have the negative mental health affects on kids (increased suicides, etc.) that we had feared they might:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">/1 THREAD: I knew this day would come. <br><br>While pediatric societies &amp; &quot;hospital organizations&quot; did &quot;science by press release,&quot; breathlessly discussing a correlation on a parent survey or releasing a statement about 1 month of admissions in May 2021, I knew we would get REAL DATA.</p>&mdash; Tyler Black, MD (@tylerblack32) <a href="https://twitter.com/tylerblack32/status/1481734046543716356?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 13, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

The lockdown has been better for my kids, school-wise. Since they are homeschooled, they are more excited about learning and have done better with their schoolwork. They are able to work at their own pace and are able to get any special accommodations to meet their needs. My wife and I are playing this out on a year by year basis.

We've also been able to get braces, with the myriad of checkup visits, and address any other issues without worrying about missing school.

It's good to see that children were not as negatively impacted by the lockdowns as we initially feared.

Spring 2020 was a clusterfuck for schools, for the obvious reasons. No one was prepared for going online. 2020-21 was much better when they had to go online.

Nothing outside of normalcy is ideal, of course, but we aren't living in ideal circumstances.

The turnaround time and availability of testing varies from area to area; I think advice/guidance should vary based on that as well For example, unlike KSyrup's report of a 5-day turnaround, mine was 24 hours for a PCR test. So I really think it just depends on some of those factors.

Tried to post this yesterday but it got botched in the thread. Here's where I was tested. More and more I'm reading about them, it seems like they weren't even really testing samples and just telling everyone they were negative.

Seems like maybe there should be a bit more oversight over these places. They were operating out of a number of states and I guess just now being shut down.

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">EXCLUSIVE: The Center for COVID Control opened pop-up testing sites across the US.<br><br>Now, it's temporarily closing amid federal+state investigations &amp; mounting complaints.<br><br>We got a copy of a federal report that says the chain wasted 40,000 tests — &amp; more: <a href="https://t.co/Pe0fBYLdz2">https://t.co/Pe0fBYLdz2</a>. <a href="https://t.co/3oXwLql7L6">pic.twitter.com/3oXwLql7L6</a></p>&mdash; Block Club Chicago (@BlockClubCHI) <a href="https://twitter.com/BlockClubCHI/status/1481997131133165569?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 14, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

Also seems like a bad idea that they were all over social media bragging about buying lambos and stuff. Should have watched Goodfellas for an important criminal lesson.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/UlMOgvQdSic" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This makes me think the death counts are going to get real ugly soon.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">�� I’d love to understand why the federal government will no longer require hospitals to report the daily number of <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/COVID19?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#COVID19</a> deaths as of February 2nd<br><br>Cc <a href="https://twitter.com/HHS_Spox?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@HHS_Spox</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/HHS_ASH?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@HHS_ASH</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hhs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@hhs</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/cyrusshahpar46?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@Cyrusshahpar46</a> <a href="https://t.co/dlugV4Vm7P">pic.twitter.com/dlugV4Vm7P</a></p>&mdash; Jorge A. Caballero, MD (@DataDrivenMD) <a href="https://twitter.com/DataDrivenMD/status/1482049687519580166?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 14, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I work in two elementary schools. Have not seen any increases in mental health needs. Have seen far more kids not prepared for school behaviorally and academically. I was in support of safety first before this year but let's not kid ourselves and deny it has had an academic impact for younger kids.

Fuck. I blew my voice during an audition on Tuesday. Wed-Thurs my throat felt...uncomfotable. Yesterday I was sneezing a lot and tired. This morning I felt stuffy and sinus achey. And now I have pretty bad congestion. Hope to fuck it isn't....well you know. Hopefully it's major allergies due to the weather changes.

I work in two elementary schools. Have not seen any increases in mental health needs. Have seen far more kids not prepared for school behaviorally and academically. I was in support of safety first before this year but let's not kid ourselves and deny it has had an academic impact for younger kids.

It would be good to have data. My wife is an education professor and some of her new research is in remote learning, but she's more a qualitative researcher, so this isn't the type of issue she would address.

We talk about it. It's a tricky subject. She made many modifications to her own classes when they went remote. Even had some oral finals over Zoom rather than written exams. I don't want to assert I know everything she has considered, but she feels that lecturing students is far more difficult - they're often just online and doing who-knows during class. But using the classroom software to manage smaller sub-discussions among students on class topics is working and students are even happy to have some interaction in that world.

Her university returns to mostly in-person learning next week with the new semester, though she's still doing one online section.

My sense... and there's no data yet. I could be wrong... For affluent parents, there have been "pods" and tutors and a home life with more interaction. Opportunities that single parents closer to the poverty line might not be able to provide. This might be particularly difficult in more closed-in settings, like an urban apartment building. Just being able to run around in the back yard with a couple of friends could mean a lot to a young kid.

I think COVID is going to end up taking a hammer to any recent progress on closing "gaps" in achievement. As for the suicide stuff... that would take years to properly analyze. Damage today does not necessarily have a specific result tomorrow. We just don't know yet and can't make assumptions.

Not about mental health (how is that defined) but more academic impact ...

Wife is a Special Ed teacher (autism etc.) and she is of the opinion that remote doesn't work as well for the kids. Can't get the kids near as focused when they are at home.

But it's better for her. She doesn't have to deal with the inevitable small "dramas" that occur between the kids and the physical stuff (e.g. she gets hit, has to sometimes restrain a kid etc.).

This makes me think the death counts are going to get real ugly soon.

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�� I’d love to understand why the federal government will no longer require hospitals to report the daily number of #COVID19 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/COVID19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) deaths as of February 2nd

Cc @HHS_Spox (https://twitter.com/HHS_Spox?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) @HHS_ASH (https://twitter.com/HHS_ASH?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) @hhs (https://twitter.com/hhs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) @Cyrusshahpar46 (https://twitter.com/cyrusshahpar46?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) pic.twitter.com/dlugV4Vm7P (https://t.co/dlugV4Vm7P)
— Jorge A. Caballero, MD (@DataDrivenMD) January 14, 2022 (https://twitter.com/DataDrivenMD/status/1482049687519580166?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) <script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Misleading Viral Claim on Government Tracking COVID-19 Deaths Debunked (https://www.businessinsider.com/misleading-viral-claim-on-government-tracking-covid-19-deaths-debunked-2022-1)
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Anecdotal, but the general consensus in our town is that curriculum has definitely been scaled back the past couple of years, at all levels K-12. We have friends who have both our kids & older kids, so can do a comparison between "normal", say, 8th grade, and what we've seen recently. Educational attainment is definitely going to be down. It'll be interesting to see what impacts this has in the future. Probably not great.

Edit: plus, you have issues like currently where my 13-year-old son told me he had a sub in his math class yesterday who had to leave halfway through the class (reason unknown) and no adult replaced him (other parents have told stories of similar experiences). They weren't learning much in math prior to the sub leaving, but definitely didn't stick with the work after he left.

This makes me think the death counts are going to get real ugly soon.

�� I’d love to understand why the federal government will no longer require hospitals to report the daily number of #COVID19 (https://twitter.com/hashtag/COVID19?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) deaths as of February 2nd

Cc @HHS_Spox (https://twitter.com/HHS_Spox?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) @HHS_ASH (https://twitter.com/HHS_ASH?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) @hhs (https://twitter.com/hhs?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) @Cyrusshahpar46 (https://twitter.com/cyrusshahpar46?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) pic.twitter.com/dlugV4Vm7P (https://t.co/dlugV4Vm7P)
— Jorge A. Caballero, MD (@DataDrivenMD) January 14, 2022 (https://twitter.com/DataDrivenMD/status/1482049687519580166?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) <script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Average Daily New Covid-19 Hospitalizations By Week (Monday-Sunday) - Texas Medical Center (https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/average-daily-new-covid-19-hospitalizations-by-week-monday-sunday/)

Two weeks ago, Texas Med Center registered its highest new hospitalization rate of the entire pandemic at 401 per day. This past week, they shattered that with 497 per day. So that's basically 3500 last week alone. Not cases - those numbers are going to be suppressed by testing capacity. These are straight up hospitalizations.

Total TMC Covid-19 Positive Patients In Hospital - Texas Medical Center (https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/total-tmc-covid-19-positive-patients-in-hospital/)

We're not quite at our peak hospitalization total yet, tho (we're at around 2500 vs a peak of 2800). But I suspect we'll see a new high this week once the numbers are tallied on Monday (or maybe Tuesday due to the holiday).

SI

Hand-wringing over potential suicides, collective shrugs over school shootings.

It would be good to have data. My wife is an education professor and some of her new research is in remote learning, but she's more a qualitative researcher, so this isn't the type of issue she would address.

We talk about it. It's a tricky subject. She made many modifications to her own classes when they went remote. Even had some oral finals over Zoom rather than written exams. I don't want to assert I know everything she has considered, but she feels that lecturing students is far more difficult - they're often just online and doing who-knows during class. But using the classroom software to manage smaller sub-discussions among students on class topics is working and students are even happy to have some interaction in that world.

Her university returns to mostly in-person learning next week with the new semester, though she's still doing one online section.

My sense... and there's no data yet. I could be wrong... For affluent parents, there have been "pods" and tutors and a home life with more interaction. Opportunities that single parents closer to the poverty line might not be able to provide. This might be particularly difficult in more closed-in settings, like an urban apartment building. Just being able to run around in the back yard with a couple of friends could mean a lot to a young kid.

I think COVID is going to end up taking a hammer to any recent progress on closing "gaps" in achievement. As for the suicide stuff... that would take years to properly analyze. Damage today does not necessarily have a specific result tomorrow. We just don't know yet and can't make assumptions.

We have data for our students. I'll add that I work for a lower ses area and I'm sure that plays a part. As you said I imagine more affect areas likely have much better outcomes. The shutdowns definitely widened the gap further from those with and those without

Hope you get better soon

... but that isn't as important as your other update? :)

I think I'm done with that. I asked her out. She gave a non-committal response. There also may be some complications I'm not going into on this board. But don't be worried I know I will be asking for more fruitless answers on this board before too long.

I've decided if I don't get a girlfriend before I turn 40 then I'm just going to get realdoll2 and go to town.

https://scontent.fluk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/271920885_1714296832109693_7492557929113454051_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=35hcwXNm-9MAX-jPiWh&_nc_ht=scontent.fluk1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_Lpa2qRJzwmOQVU5QP-HQdC8-vaESJiKCAOoSs_l_rEQ&oe=61E9DB54

Heh

I think I'm done with that. I asked her out. She gave a non-committal response. There also may be some complications I'm not going into on this board. But don't be worried I know I will be asking for more fruitless answers on this board before too long.

I've decided if I don't get a girlfriend before I turn 40 then I'm just going to get realdoll2 and go to town.


There's always a boyfriend if all else fails :D

Hand-wringing over potential suicides, collective shrugs over school shootings.

Yeah, there is a lot of concern trolling over mental health and development in kids. The people who are the loudest about this have also been the people who fight the hardest against providing more educational opportunities, mental health resources, and general health care for children.

It's all a pretext for shutting down government-run education so private Christian schools become indoctrination incubators to create a white majority of Charlie Kirks, MTGs, and Madison Cawthorns.

Captain Kirk and Magic the Gathering?

Yeah, there is a lot of concern trolling over mental health and development in kids. The people who are the loudest about this have also been the people who fight the hardest against providing more educational opportunities, mental health resources, and general health care for children.

I particularly love the people who like to compare group A now to group A in 2018, like there isn't the giant obvious variable of a global pandemic that's different. It's one thing to compare achievement gap now vs then because then you are comparing apples to apples and oranges to oranges and it's a fair comp. But like you said, the people advocating loudest for it are the ones who don't give a damn about kids anyways and are just using them as pawns in their anti-mask culture war and have no sincere belief in actually trying to better things.

SI

Part of the issue is the toll this has taken on education providers who have been largely villainized and unappreciated. There are huge staff shortages and it's likely going to get worse. It has been a terrible time to work in education, people are leaving the field or choosing not to enter it. Credentialing programs are lowering their standards and its going to be an uphill battle

I finally got my test results back, 10 days after I first made the appt & 4 days after getting tested. Even the lab processing is gummed up at this point. My symptoms were gone like a week ago & I quarantined the whole time, so it's almost purely informational at this point.

https://i.imgur.com/aHaMf6N.png

Absurdly, part of me was relieved by the positive, if only because positive feels like the only definitive result. Considering the testing delays/hiccups/conditions I wouldn't have entirely believed a negative result.

Absurdly, part of me was relieved by the positive, if only because positive was the only definitive result. Considering the testing delays/hiccups/conditions I wouldn't have entirely believed a negative result.

I get it.

My negative really doesn't mean a whole lot to me since I've been sicker since the negative than I was before it (and by the time I got tested, my symptoms were largely gone).

And there's not much point in testing again since I'd likely be in the same situation if I tried anyway(with the worst seemingly behind me and a 3 day delay to get tested)

Part of the issue is the toll this has taken on education providers who have been largely villainized and unappreciated. There are huge staff shortages and it's likely going to get worse. It has been a terrible time to work in education, people are leaving the field or choosing not to enter it. Credentialing programs are lowering their standards and its going to be an uphill battle

Its like this in retail and the service industry. You basically have a segment of the population who are insulated from the risks getting upset at people for not taking risks with their lives for substandard pay.

Oof, accidentally clicking on the first page of this thread and reading some of the opinions is a bit painful (and not a shot at those people either as I don’t think any of us saw this happening in our most vivid nightmares early on)

Oof, accidentally clicking on the first page of this thread and reading some of the opinions is a bit painful (and not a shot at those people either as I don’t think any of us saw this happening in our most vivid nightmares early on)

It's a good thing we could laugh at a televangelist who was transparently a snake oil salesman for what he is. Boy, it would be embarrassing if the President would make statements that sounded like using sterilizing UV light and ingesting bleach, millions wouldn't take a free vaccine, and more people seemingly listen to some meathead making $100M on Sirius and quacks on YouTube recommending horse dewormer then legions of scientists who study this for a living. /nervous chuckle/

SI

Oof, accidentally clicking on the first page of this thread and reading some of the opinions is a bit painful (and not a shot at those people either as I don’t think any of us saw this happening in our most vivid nightmares early on)

You could do the same in the Ebola thread. Though that one was politically swapped - the conservatives were telling us that we were all going to die and needed to shut the country down.

and then there was the Lost series of threads...oh my!

I have a feeling when this is over we're going to find out some really scummy stuff went on with the testing. I posted about that large testing company that appears to just be a scam at this point. And with how easily those people were able to get into the testing industry (they owned an axe throwing bar a year earlier), I think we'll find a lot of similar stories.

I wish I had a positive test too like thesloppy mentioned. At least it would have made sense. My symptoms were pretty mild so it could have been other stuff, but it happened during the surge and at the same time some people around me got it. But seems pointless to get tested now that it's past me and I doubt I can trust a test from a company that seems like a scam.

Are there any accurate tests out there to show you had it? It would be more for informational purposes at this point.

when this is over, he says...

Are there any accurate tests out there to show you had it? It would be more for informational purposes at this point.

I believe (and you should really double/triple check, because I'm just repeating third hand info myself) that the PCR-type tests are more accurate but will report positive for several weeks & perhaps months after you've had covid & those need to be sent to a lab to be tested and take at least a day and maybe 4-5 days to get results.

The antigen-type tests will report positive if you are actively shedding a critical amount of covid at that very moment, so you might test negative even if you have it but it is in the early stages or if you just had it but you're below that indicative level. I think those results are available onsite within a half-hour or less. I think these are also predominantly/exclusively the kind of test you can order online and do at home. You can get some of this type on Amazon, if you want to be proactive about a possible next time, but they are still taking like 3-4 weeks to ship.

The dedicated testing place where I got tested (https://curative.com/) offered both types of tests & you could select from one or the other. I think you can get faster access to testing if you have a primary care doctor or through an urgent care facility, if your insurance will cover it, but they might not have a full selection of tests available.

I believe (and you should really double/triple check, because I'm just repeating third hand info myself) that the PCR-type tests are more accurate but will report positive for several weeks & perhaps months

They may do so, but on average it really is 3ish weeks. It does simply show infection very accurately even at low 'dosage'. There are instances it does give a positive for longer but that isn't the norm.

What Rainmaker is looking for is an antibody test, which starts to show positive about 2-3 weeks after being infected. There's some cases it doesn't and won't work forever (both dependend on your body building antibodies and how much/long they stay above the detection threshold)

@rainmaker: EUA Authorized Serology Test Performance | FDA (https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/coronavirus-disease-2019-covid-19-emergency-use-authorizations-medical-devices/eua-authorized-serology-test-performance)

Bit of a clusterfuck to read and i am sure there are articles on this giving you simply a list but here you get Evaluation performance of all FDA authorized tests under their marketed name (so you could crosscheck what you find available to buy or what your doctor/pharmacy/testing center offers).

I kinda admire China's zero Covid policy but being unexpectedly locked down like this would really, really suck. What will they do if they find Covid inside their Olympic venue? Need to read up on their Olympic controls.

My guess is they know zero covid is untentable with omicron but they want to wait until Olympics, Chinese New Year (when a lot of people travel), get more people booster #3, and somehow ease/transition into it.

Or I guess they can continue to shut down cities when cases are found but I have to believe that would cause social unrest and adversely impact the economy. Interesting experiment walking the tightrope there.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/17/china/beijing-omicron-olympics-mic-intl-hnk/index.html
At an office building in China's capital on Sunday, masked Covid control personnel lugged boxes of pillows and bedding through the closely guarded entrance for white collar workers stuck inside, preparing for what may be days of lockdown as Beijing rushes to prevent the spread of Omicron ahead of the Winter Olympics.

The snap lockdown meant the building in the west of the city was sealed off without advance warning, with everybody inside unable to leave and subject to compulsory Covid testing. The decision to lock the office down came after an employee tested positive for Omicron on Saturday -- the city's first recorded case of the highly transmissible variant.

Let's just say i would need to be very well paid in a job i reaaallly love to travel there for the Olympics.

Thanks for the testing info. I'll ask my doctor and if they can offer a way to get tested, I'll do it. But I'm done with the pop-up testing places for now.

Cannabis to control COVID-19? Research finds a hemp compound blocks infection - WISH-TV | Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic (https://www.wishtv.com/news/coronavirus/cannabis-to-control-covid-19-research-finds-a-hemp-compound-blocks-infection/)

Good job GOP.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJF2pcHXMAIXXBk?format=jpg&name=small

We are a stubborn, stupid country.

Who are the "plans to get vaccinated" group at this point? I feel like a good portion of those are people who definitely aren't getting vaccinated but are embarrassed to say so, even for a poll.

Who are the "plans to get vaccinated" group at this point? I feel like a good portion of those are people who definitely aren't getting vaccinated but are embarrassed to say so, even for a poll.

I mean, they could just accidentally have hit the wrong button on the survey. Seems just as likely at this point, honestly.

SI

Google "Lizardman Constant." It helps explain those weird survey results that always pop up.

Who are the "plans to get vaccinated" group at this point? I feel like a good portion of those are people who definitely aren't getting vaccinated but are embarrassed to say so, even for a poll.

Or they're just big procrastinators, like I am in regards to the booster shot.

It actually makes me really sad. If you think back to the beginning of the pandemic, there was a sense of "we are all in this together." A "we will all sacrifice for the greater good." It felt somewhat like what it must have felt like when we were all banding together to beat the Nazis. It was nice. The virus was horrible, but we were going to get it under control because we were Americans and were humans and we were undefeated.

Then Russian propaganda trolls got on your great aunt's facebook page, and we lost all of that.

USPS now has their site up for the free testing kits. Seems pretty easy to use.

COVID Home Tests | USPS (https://special.usps.com/testkits)

With autofill in Chrome, it took me less than 60 seconds to order mine.

With autofill in Chrome, it took me less than 60 seconds to order mine.

That seems kind of long actually lol

Yeah, I believe it took me 15 seconds.

This, too. So many deaths after the vaccinations became available.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FJY1ep_VUAMoR9Q?format=jpg&name=small

USPS now has their site up for the free testing kits. Seems pretty easy to use.

COVID Home Tests | USPS (https://special.usps.com/testkits)


Got mine ordered-no hassle, very quick

Got mine ordered also. Let's see how long it takes to get here.

Also saw that Biden is making N95 masks available also. This one seems to be an afterthought and gimmicky (e.g. wasn't announced at same time as test kits).

Then Russian propaganda trolls got on your great aunt's facebook page, and we lost all of that.

Good ole american antivaxxers, professional grifters, Republican politicians and professional contrarians did more damage than Russia could ever do. I'm not saying they didn't try pretty hard. Heck, the manufacturer of their own vaccine spread out of context 'information' about other vaccines. Which i am pretty sure backfired. People constantly overestimate other peoples ability to differentiate. They don't read "1 vaccine good, all others bad" but get doubts about the 1 as well. Same with "elderly vaxx (kinda maybe sorta) good, but 40 year olds ? Never !"

https://www.counterhate.com/_files/ugd/f4d9b9_b7cedc0553604720b7137f8663366ee5.pdf

Not the best plan.

Hana Horka: Czech singer dies after catching Covid intentionally (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60050996)

The Orange County, FL Health Director has been put on leave by the Governor's office because he was strongly encouraging his staff to get vaccinated.

The Orange County, FL Health Director has been put on leave by the Governor's office because he was strongly encouraging his staff to get vaccinated.

DeSantis really is going to make his push for the GOP nomination based on "Trump isn't pro-virus enough"

Bold strategy, etc.

Not the best plan.

Hana Horka: Czech singer dies after catching Covid intentionally (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60050996)

The timing probably doesn’t line up in this instance but I have to wonder how many of these Mr Djokovic is going to influence. He certainly seems to have legitimized the “get infected, have immunity and get allowed to do stuff again” theory more than anybody else, even if he did end up not being allowed to do the thing.

DeSantis really is going to make his push for the GOP nomination based on "Trump isn't pro-virus enough"

Bold strategy, etc.
And some of Trump's recent reactions to him strongly suggests that he feels threatened.

EDIT--Post moved to Trump thread.

It won't happen, but I hope him and his kids are in jail by the time 2024 gets here.

I have reached the point where getting a swab up my nose and twirled around is as normal as getting a needle in my arm.

The timing probably doesn’t line up in this instance but I have to wonder how many of these Mr Djokovic is going to influence. He certainly seems to have legitimized the “get infected, have immunity and get allowed to do stuff again” theory more than anybody else, even if he did end up not being allowed to do the thing.

I'm not sure if I'm going to laugh at how obstinate Novaxx is or applaud his unflagging dedication to the cause if he is also forced to miss the French Open for the same reason.

Who are the "plans to get vaccinated" group at this point? I feel like a good portion of those are people who definitely aren't getting vaccinated but are embarrassed to say so, even for a poll.

It's also actually harder to get a vaccine right now than it was in the spring/summer/early fall, at least in my area. We're no longer in 'unlimited supply, just walk in whenever and get one' but there's an appointment protocol, which is a small additional obstacle.

If those people really wanted to get the vaccine, they'd have an appointment already.

My parents are actually in this category, at least as far as the booster goes. They're Trumpers, got the vaccine because my brother (a doctor) told them to, but they won't get the booster. We're going to Hawaii in June and it looks like they are going to require the booster, so my parents said they'll get it in time for the trip. Then my mom proceeded to tell me about how many young athletes are dying after getting the booster shot. I was waiting for the "Betty White died because of the booster" comment, but to my surprise, they didn't go that far.

Oh for sure, it's really only an issue if you're on the fence/don't really want it/are procrastinating. I'm just saying there are a certain small 0number - don't know how many - who would get the vaccine without the appointment issue.

I haven't seen any polling on it, but 'vaccine fatigue' or what-have-you appears from my anecdotal observation to be having an effect on people getting boosters who already had the first two vaccine shots. I'd be interested in any hard info on that, but I've heard people who got the vaccine express thoughts along the line of regretting it and planning not to get boosted. How that plays out in the next year or two will be curious.

My mom is a Trumper too and she wasn't going to get the vaccine. She has heart problems and her heart doctor told her if you get COVID you're going to die. So, she got vaccinated.

She mentions being poisoned here or there, yet she'll keep on smoking a pack a day.

People are strange.

When you're a stranger.

For those keeping score (and since I've mentioned it), my home test tonight was indeed positive. Wife tested positive likewise on .. Tues?

She's moving clear of her symptoms, I'm a much slower recovery (having started with this shit 8 days ago) but am approaching 24 hours without an uncontrollable coughing fit for the first time in a week.

The one observation I might have is this: that stuff about "Covid brain"?
F'n real afaic. I ain't had this much lost time without liquor involved ever.

The one observation I might have is this: that stuff about "Covid brain"?
F'n real afaic. I ain't had this much lost time without liquor involved ever.

I had an absolutely horrible time sleeping, despite being constantly exhausted, during my covid bout & that really twisted time for me.

I had an absolutely horrible time sleeping, despite being constantly exhausted, during my covid bout & that really twisted time for me.

After the two longest days had passed, I realized that there were moments -- in the middle of the night when I coughed myself out of sleep I guess -- that I had some ... hallucinations.

The next day I'd realize that "hmm, X didn't actually happen overnight, it couldn't have"

The biggest issue is that most of these anti-vaxxers get their "data" from VAERS, which they think is an official database or something. I can write whatever I want, but it does not necessarily get removed from that system, and you do not even need to have the vaccine to submit things. My dad keeps telling me about the scores of people having heart attacks and strokes from the vaccine, but most of what he talks about is coming from VAERS.

Yesterday was my first time hearing about an active duty member of the military that was medically retired due to the after effects of having COVID. I am really curious how we as a country categorizes the different effects from having COVID moving forward. Not just in the military but in the civilian world as well. This is especially interesting when it comes to who has disabilities worthy of lifelong compensation and who does not.

i really hate covid. i have it now :(

Good luck!

In the last month our school district has had more positive tests for teachers than all of last year and almost as many student cases as last year.

Sorry CF! :( Hope you get over it quick!

Hope it's mild for you! My wife and kid tested positive last week - we are pretty sure it came from my son's daycare. He was completely fine (a runny nose was it, but that's normal daycare stuff). My wife had a sore throat which then became general congestion and she was super tired. Unfortunately she also lost her taste which has still not fully come back but she is more than fine otherwise.

I tested negative and had no symptoms at all. Go figure.

Yesterday was my first time hearing about an active duty member of the military that was medically retired due to the after effects of having COVID. I am really curious how we as a country categorizes the different effects from having COVID moving forward. Not just in the military but in the civilian world as well. This is especially interesting when it comes to who has disabilities worthy of lifelong compensation and who does not.


In regards to assessing for special education and section 504, our legal guidance is we have to consider long covid (if there is an official diagnosis)

Hopefully this is true and future mutations will be relatively less severe.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/22/world/omicron-changed-pandemic-intl-cmd/index.html
Omicron's reduced severity compared to previous variants, and the perceived likelihood that individuals will eventually be infected, have contributed to that relaxation in people's mindsets, Williams said. This has even caused some people to actively seek out the illness to "get it over with" -- a practice experts have strongly warned against.

But some within the scientific community are cautiously optimistic that Omicron could be the pandemic's last act -- providing huge swathes of the world with "a layer of immunity," and moving us closer to an endemic stage when Covid-19 is comparable to seasonal illnesses like the cold or flu.

"My own view is that it's becoming endemic, and it will continue to stay endemic for some time -- as has happened with other coronaviruses," said David Heymann, professor of infectious disease epidemiology at the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.

"All viruses try to become endemic, and to me this one looks like it's succeeding," he said.

@Edward: quoting myself from earlier in the thread:

It's complicated, but generally the problem a more lethal strain of the same virus has is that it can't outcompete a less lethal strain for hosts. The less lethal strain has an easier time spreading because it a) doesn't kill so many of its hosts and b) a lot of its hosts don't even realize they're carrying the virus.

So basically you have a less lethal strain out there, infecting hosts left and right and causing those hosts to build up antibodies. Along comes the more lethal strain, encountering these hosts. It either a) loses against those antibodies and can't propagate or b) wins, but then kills the host and doesn't propagate as much.

So yes, what you posted is also my hope. Of course where this falls apart is when a variant is different enough that it can bypass any level of "immunity" gained from previous infection and/or vaccination.

Idle observation from the covid files:
that "Body Armor" drink?
That shit is nasty.

Kinda knew I was up against it when I saw coconut water on the label, despite the flavor being "orange mango"

John Stockton has gone mad.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">dude is out of his damn mind <a href="https://t.co/dMqiaCbAUX">https://t.co/dMqiaCbAUX</a> <a href="https://t.co/zZq7tU05rq">pic.twitter.com/zZq7tU05rq</a></p>&mdash; Brian Floyd (@BrianMFloyd) <a href="https://twitter.com/BrianMFloyd/status/1485292836098490370?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 23, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Not a surprise, he was apearing in a high profile Antivaxx documentary last Winter, boasting of having done "significant amounts of research" (and being irritated that his children don't believe his ramblings over official guidance)

-----------


Joe Rogan&#x27;s Friends Assemble in D.C. to Do Something They Say Isn&#x27;t an Anti-Vax Rally (https://www.vice.com/en/article/88g5bk/joe-rogans-friends-assemble-in-dc-to-do-something-they-say-isnt-an-anti-vax-rally)

Usefull as a field guide to (mostly) american Antivaxxers. Plus, a Kwame Brown sighting.

I hope they at least sleep badly at night.

These people haven't, in general, changed. What's changed is that we care what they think about these issues now.

I can't eat ketchup or hot sauce right now and the world is a darker place.

Aaron Rodgers stopped trying to walk a fine line and came out as fully anti-vax and at least borderline Q.


“When the president of the United States says, ‘This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated,’ it’s because him and his constituents, which — I don’t know how there are any if you watch any of his attempts at public speaking — but I guess he got 81 million votes,” the NFL star told ESPN before his season ended in a playoff loss to the San Francisco 49ers on Saturday.

“But when you say stuff like that, and then you have the CDC, which — how do you even trust them — but then they come out and talk about 75% of the COVID deaths have at least four comorbidities,” he continued. “And you still have this fake White House set saying that this is the pandemic of the unvaccinated. That’s not helping the conversation.”

lol

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">power ranking the top 10 aaron rodgers nicknames <br><br>1. klan marino <br>2. rush lambeau<br>3 throw rogan<br>4. prager unitas <br>5. Brietbart Starr<br>6. QB giuliani<br>7. OANy romo<br>8. tuckrule carlson <br>9. Qaaron rodgers <br>10. kurt d wormer</p>&mdash; Ben Pfeifer (@bjpf_) <a href="https://twitter.com/bjpf_/status/1485146200961691648?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 23, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Winning is the only thing. So I expect the Packers will make nice and keep him around.

But there has to be a growing "Even another Super Bowl isn't worth spending another second with that asshole" sentiment in that building.

Am I missing something entirely? Is Rodgers a QAnon guy? I thought his outbursts were limited to the concept of forced vaccination. And since many pro athletes are very, very involved in knowing exactly what they put into their bodies, his concerns seemed honest to me. He seems convinced that he could have a bad reaction.

But if he's running around like the guy with the Bravehart getup, then I withdraw my concern that he's getting a bad rap here. Though calling someone a Klan member (the Pfeifer guy, whoever he is) seems like an entirely different breed of awful if there's no real justification.

Am I missing something entirely? Is Rodgers a QAnon guy? I thought his outbursts were limited to the concept of forced vaccination. And since many pro athletes are very, very involved in knowing exactly what they put into their bodies, his concerns seemed honest to me. He seems convinced that he could have a bad reaction.

But if he's running around like the guy with the Bravehart getup, then I withdraw my concern that he's getting a bad rap here. Though calling someone a Klan member (the Pfeifer guy, whoever he is) seems like an entirely different breed of awful if there's no real justification.

He takes that horse paste so I don't really think this is about concerns over what is going into his body.

His girlfriend also advocates eating clay because a cab driver told her it works.

But if he's running around like the guy with the Bravehart getup, then I withdraw my concern that he's getting a bad rap here. Though calling someone a Klan member (the Pfeifer guy, whoever he is) seems like an entirely different breed of awful if there's no real justification.

It's the usual pile-on. I haven't seen any quotes from Rodgers putting him in the Q camp.

There's a difficulty in certain circles - or a lack of interest in doing it possibly - in differentiating between degrees of opposition to the approved line. Often one is either in agreement with the vaccine mandates and all that entails, or they are considered to be 'pro-virus' 'Q-positive', and so on.

I think it's important to note that the veterinary pastes are a different form of the ivermectin that can be proscribed to humans.

It's also important to note that while ivermectin is considered a "wonder drug" in places where there are a lot of parasitic infections, it isn't considered a valid way to avoid COVID. However, the tablets proscribed to humans are very safe.

Calling something that has saved millions of human lives "horse paste" doesn't help advance the discussion any more than calling someone a Klan member who has never advocated Klan behavior.

I hadn't heard about the eating clay thing, but I looked it up, and it's not like she's digging around in the garden for it. It seems to fall into the general class of strange supplement stuff that probably doesn't hurt you. And 22-year-old actresses generally tend to be into strange stuff (older ones, too, thinking of Gwyneth Paltrow making a career out of it).

I'm not trying to defend Rodgers, especially over the anti-vaccination stuff. I'm just not cool with this trend of connecting people we don't agree with on one subject to all sorts of other evil.

Am I missing something entirely? Is Rodgers a QAnon guy? I thought his outbursts were limited to the concept of forced vaccination. And since many pro athletes are very, very involved in knowing exactly what they put into their bodies, his concerns seemed honest to me. He seems convinced that he could have a bad reaction.

But if he's running around like the guy with the Bravehart getup, then I withdraw my concern that he's getting a bad rap here. Though calling someone a Klan member (the Pfeifer guy, whoever he is) seems like an entirely different breed of awful if there's no real justification.

Usually those that question the election results and fall into the anti-vax CDC conspiracy group are Q followers or at least Q-adjacent. Which is why I said borderline Q.

He held back his true feelings on vaccinations and tried to spin himself not as antivax but his recent statement showed there was more there. I wouldn't be surprised at all that there's more to his thoughts on the election than simply questioning 81 million votes as well.

Yeah, the 81 million line hints that he's a big lie guy at a minimum.

There&rsquo;s also a group that are fully Q but know that that will make them judged if they truly let their true feelings out so they couch their statements to be able to disassociate when questioned. You can see that many will cut those a break or benefit of the doubt if they don&rsquo;t explicitly espouse a doctrine exactly as promoted online or on oan.

Watch the movie US

It&rsquo;s exactly this


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Oregon Wages Rose 17% Since the Pandemic Started—and a State Economist Says They’ll Keep Rising (https://www.wweek.com/news/business/2022/01/23/oregon-wages-rose-17-since-the-pandemic-startedand-the-state-economist-says-theyll-keep-rising/)

Am I missing something entirely? Is Rodgers a QAnon guy? I thought his outbursts were limited to the concept of forced vaccination. And since many pro athletes are very, very involved in knowing exactly what they put into their bodies, his concerns seemed honest to me. He seems convinced that he could have a bad reaction.

“When the president of the United States says, ‘This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated,’ it’s because him and his constituents"

How do you interpret that as "limited to the concept of forced vaccination"? I mean it's so poorly stated that it could be interpreted many ways, but none of them are rooted in a concern for his personal health.

However, the tablets proscribed to humans are very safe.

So is the vaccine that has been administered to billions.

Your argument here is that he's concerned about what he puts in his body. The same guy who is taking Ivermectin and Hydrochlorique. Two drugs with side effects that have zero scientific evidence they help in combating COVID. Doesn't sound like someone who is concerned about what he puts into his body.

The horse paste joke is because few reputable doctors will prescribe the drug for COVID. So the anti-vaxx crowd resorted to buying the horse version. Rodgers probably has enough money to get it legitimately, but who knows?

I hadn't heard about the eating clay thing, but I looked it up, and it's not like she's digging around in the garden for it. It seems to fall into the general class of strange supplement stuff that probably doesn't hurt you. And 22-year-old actresses generally tend to be into strange stuff (older ones, too, thinking of Gwyneth Paltrow making a career out of it).

If someone literally wants to eat dirt, go for it. But you don't get to argue that they are careful with what they put into their body.

I'm not trying to defend Rodgers, especially over the anti-vaccination stuff. I'm just not cool with this trend of connecting people we don't agree with on one subject to all sorts of other evil.

Of course you are. You came up with a ridiculous excuse as to why he wouldn't take it. An excuse he doesn't need because he's been very clear as to what he feels works (random drugs touted by Joe Rogan and vitamins) and what doesn't (the vaccine).

After reading some more, especially what Rodgers has been quoted as saying, I disagree with you (including the dirt/clay confusion, not that what his new girlfriend said she did seven years ago is relevant here, nor am I interested in a discussion about the claimed health benefits of this type of clay).

Given the millions whose lives have been saved by Ivermectin, I'm not certain I understand why it's a joking matter. I didn't think when you posted that you were intending it as a joke. It's very important for those who are trying to obtain Ivermectin that they understand the difference between the veterinary form and the pills approved for human use.

While it's not approved for COVID use in the US, that is still being studied (the small 2020 study from Bangladesh is still referenced on the NCBI site) and Rodgers did take it when sick with COVID and while symptomatic. He said the symptoms reduced. So I can understand why he feels it worked for him, even though the evidence is weak at this point.

Some of the stuff Rodgers is spreading about the vaccines (the infertility argument), I would call him out on, since that's not based on anything other than speculation. The vaccines have saved a lot of lives. I think he's being sincere, even though I disagree with a lot of what he says.

.

For some people it's literally black or white, no grey. So I wouldn't bother.

Given the millions whose lives have been saved by Ivermectin, I'm not certain I understand why it's a joking matter. I didn't think when you posted that you were intending it as a joke. It's very important for those who are trying to obtain Ivermectin that they understand the difference between the veterinary form and the pills approved for human use.

I'm sure Ivermectin has saved lives and if this thread was about roundworm, it would be highly relevant. But if someone is at a point where they are going to feed stores to buy the stuff with a horse on the wrapper, they're probably too far gone to listen to any rational medical advice.

While it's not approved for COVID use in the US, that is still being studied (the small 2020 study from Bangladesh is still referenced on the NCBI site) and Rodgers did take it when sick with COVID and while symptomatic. He said the symptoms reduced. So I can understand why he feels it worked for him, even though the evidence is weak at this point.

I'm sure he did take it when he had COVID and I'm sure he did recover. I drank Diet Mountain Dew and played video games when I had the flu a couple years ago and recovered. Correlation does not imply causation.

I guarantee you that if there was any evidence that Ivermectic worked to cure or prevent COVID, the giant pharmaceutical company that makes it would have let us all know by now. Instead, they are begging people to not take it.

Some of the stuff Rodgers is spreading about the vaccines (the infertility argument), I would call him out on, since that's not based on anything other than speculation. The vaccines have saved a lot of lives. I think he's being sincere, even though I disagree with a lot of what he says.

What he is spreading is misinformation. Acting like some Vitamin C and Zinc pills immunizes you from COVID. What he has said is factually incorrect and has no scientific evidence to back it up. Not to mention dangerous to the populace and increases the spread of a deadly virus.

But I do agree that he is sincere in what he believes.

Ivermectin caught on because one study showed in a lab setting that a higher than approved use dosage of Ivermectin kills the Covid 19 virus. I'm sure there are countless other things we could find that kills Covid in a lab setting as well, but there's no evidence it works within the human body with the same effectiveness when given an approved dosage.

These people don't trust science unless it aligns with their agenda or preconceived beliefs. In this case they believe there's a global conspiracy to keep Covid drugs away from the public to push the dangerous vaccines onto us.

For some people it's literally black or white, no grey. So I wouldn't bother.

The numbers are black and white. You can look up data points as to the effectiveness of the vaccine. You can read actual scientific studies on the effectiveness of Ivermectin, HCQ, Vitamin C, and others he touted to compare it to the vaccine.

The numbers are black and white. You can look up data points as to the effectiveness of the vaccine. You can read actual scientific studies on the effectiveness of Ivermectin, HCQ, Vitamin C, and others he touted to compare it to the vaccine.

THE VITAMIN C AND D HAVE TO BE TAKEN WITH ZINC!!!

I'm so tired of this shit.

re: 400M N95 masks for free.

Trying to understand the rationale for this. About 250M or so adults. So we are talking about 2 masks each. I guess this is just for the omicron spike (which will probably be on a downhill when the masks get to us).

Don't know how much it costs to take it out of the stockpile, but the $ may be better spent by somehow making more N95 masks readily available at lower costs. Work with a company that has direct manufacturing capacity and churn those out.

I think 40-60% of the US will be living with and using masks for the near-mid future ... and there'll probably be another mutation later this year.

I got a box of N95s from work when the pandemic started. I've had to wear one a couple of times on the Covid floors of our hospital and they're currently sitting in my vehicle glove box in case someone forgets a mask. They are not fun to wear at all. I'd definitely suck it up if I were at risk, but for now I'm just relying on double layer cloth masks and my vaccines+booster.

I had a box from before this started for woodworking. They really are miserable to wear and I don't know how doctors and nurses pull it off for 8+ hour shifts. 20 minutes in a grocery store was enough for me.

After I got vaccinated I just went down to a bandana but I usually keep good distance from people in public and have avoided crowded areas.

re: 400M N95 masks for free.

Trying to understand the rationale for this.

Appearing to do everything possible.

Given the millions whose lives have been saved by Ivermectin, I'm not certain I understand why it's a joking matter. I didn't think when you posted that you were intending it as a joke. It's very important for those who are trying to obtain Ivermectin that they understand the difference between the veterinary form and the pills approved for human use.

While it's not approved for COVID use in the US, that is still being studied (the small 2020 study from Bangladesh is still referenced on the NCBI site) and Rodgers did take it when sick with COVID and while symptomatic. He said the symptoms reduced. So I can understand why he feels it worked for him, even though the evidence is weak at this point.

Millions of lives have been saved by Ivermectin for parasitic diseases. That seems an odd thing to bring up in the COVID thread. I think that when Aaron Rodgers and all of us are talking about Ivermectin in the COVID thread, we're talking about his stance on taking it for COVID, right?

And, yes, the science for the COVID pandemic isn't going to be fully settled for years. But Ivermectin (and Hydroxychloroquine and a number of other drugs) do not appear to have statistically significant effects on COVID in the vast majority of studies. Of course, most professional athletes who are in great physical shape, are going to have limited difficulties with a disease that significantly affects those with comorbidities worst so, anecdotally, most athletes will be fine.*

*Though, if you traffic in public health, you're going to want to make policies based on overall populations not just small pockets or small unique samples.

SI

For some people it's literally black or white, no grey. So I wouldn't bother.

I, for one, am glad I'm able to always bask in the aura of one of my social and moral betters who is always ready to remind us that said wisdom is only surpassed by a greater humility.

SI

I, for one, am glad I'm able to always bask in the aura of one of my social and moral betters who is always ready to remind us that said wisdom is only surpassed by a greater humility.

SI

Funny you should say that. Definitely no shortage of moral betters in FOFC. Oblivious hypocrisy.

For some people it's literally black or white, no grey. So I wouldn't bother.

Yeah. I know. The one point that Rodgers makes that resonates (and there's some irony there) is that healthy, unemotional debate can advance knowledge. So one would hope that with intelligent people (and I think Rodgers is intelligent), engaging them from the perspective that they are trying to help and can add to the debate will allow us to better establish what needs further study and what is just misinformation.

I've come to the conclusion, and this is recent with me, maybe only the last few years, that the overwhelming majority of people feel very strongly that they would like to make the world a better place. What we call moral values as human beings - we have more in common than not. Life is not a superhero movie. Or a television "news" show.

However... we have as many different ways of expressing those values as there are individuals. And those expressions are more a function of the intersection of thousands of variables that we don't like to change or want to change or maybe cannot change.

It helps me to recognize that no matter how hard I try, there's no way (unless I'm not around to assess it) that many of the thoughts I feel strongly about today I might feel very differently about ten years from now. Or that "history", whatever that is, won't judge 2022 as harshly in 2042 as we judge 2002 today.

So the Ivermectin thing - it's an incredibly valuable drug, maybe one of the most valuable drugs ever developed, but it is not a substitute for the vaccines. Reviewing some of the newer studies on the NCBI site, it's still being investigated as a potential treatment, though I haven't seen anything on prevention (and I'd rather just not get COVID, period). Given the number and recency of these studies, I think the medical community still thinks it's worth considering as treatment in some cases because it has so few side-effects. So the studies continue.

So the Ivermectin thing - it's an incredibly valuable drug, maybe one of the most valuable drugs ever developed, but it is not a substitute for the vaccines. Reviewing some of the newer studies on the NCBI site, it's still being investigated as a potential treatment, though I haven't seen anything on prevention (and I'd rather just not get COVID, period). Given the number and recency of these studies, I think the medical community still thinks it's worth considering as treatment in some cases because it has so few side-effects. So the studies continue.

I've read there is a robust Duke study going on the human version of Ivermectin (not the horse version).

I do think there are covidiots taking the horse version (and bleach and etc.). But don't think Rodgers was talking about that. Horse version definitely no-no.

Yeah. I know. The one point that Rodgers makes that resonates (and there's some irony there) is that healthy, unemotional debate can advance knowledge. So one would hope that with intelligent people (and I think Rodgers is intelligent), engaging them from the perspective that they are trying to help and can add to the debate will allow us to better establish what needs further study and what is just misinformation.

If they were trying to help, wouldn't they tell people to choose the path that has mountains of scientific evidence backing it?

Also, how can you have a scientific debate with someone who doesn't believe in scientific evidence? Their beliefs are based on a completely different criteria.

I've read there is a robust Duke study going on the human version of Ivermectin (not the horse version).

I do think there are covidiots taking the horse version (and bleach and etc.). But don't think Rodgers was talking about that. Horse version definitely no-no.

Cattle version of Ivermectin is the way to go. It’s a pour-on. Dump some in your hair and don’t shower for a few days so you know it worked. Given how concentrated it is, you won’t need much. I used to buy it by the gallon!

If they were trying to help, wouldn't they tell people to choose the path that has mountains of scientific evidence backing it?

Also, how can you have a scientific debate with someone who doesn't believe in scientific evidence? Their beliefs are based on a completely different criteria.

Belief is a terribly tricky concept. We tend to confirm as "scientific" what we want to believe.

It seems to me that Rodgers would sincerely say the same thing about his loyal opposition.

Our goal can and should be to be non-political about this sort of thing. None of us meets that standard. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

how can you have a scientific debate with someone who doesn't believe in scientific evidence? Their beliefs are based on a completely different criteria.

People just think differently. There are people who believe in scientific evidence and have been convinced by it to become flat earthers, for crying out loud. This is why it's important to engage with people of all views. As much for our benefits as theirs. As repulsive as it may seem to us at times, we can learn a lot from the Aaron Rodgers of the world.

John Stockton has gone mad.

.....


Ok, so who are the 100+ professional athletes that have died during a game/competition or practice over the last 2 years? Can he name any? I can't remember any for this rumor to even start. Maybe during sports I don't follow as closely?

There have been pro athletes to pass away, but not during action and many that died from COVID had finished their careers.

Belief is a terribly tricky concept. We tend to confirm as "scientific" what we want to believe.

It seems to me that Rodgers would sincerely say the same thing about his loyal opposition.

Our goal can and should be to be non-political about this sort of thing. None of us meets that standard. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

This is just vague gibberish people use when they don't have the courage to say what they believe.

You either believe the billions of data points we have from countries, medical facilities, doctors, researchers, scientists, and organizations mean something, or you don't.

People just think differently. There are people who believe in scientific evidence and have been convinced by it to become flat earthers, for crying out loud. This is why it's important to engage with people of all views. As much for our benefits as theirs. As repulsive as it may seem to us at times, we can learn a lot from the Aaron Rodgers of the world.

People entrenched into conspiracy theories are nearly impossible to engage. If everyone who can disprove your theory is in on the conspiracy, it only strengthens your resolve when provided evidence from those sources. Their logic is self-sealing.

There are thousands of people a day in this country dying because they are so committed to this conspiracy. Millions that are so entrenched that they are willing to put their friends and families lives at risk over it. I think it's narcissistic to believe that we can convince those people with some spirited debate.

People entrenched into conspiracy theories are nearly impossible to engage. If everyone who can disprove your theory is in on the conspiracy, it only strengthens your resolve when provided evidence from those sources. Their logic is self-sealing.

Reality isn't that monolithic. There are a lot of people like you describe, but it sounds to me like you may not have actually read my last post that you quoted. People legitimately trying to find answers come to widely differing points of view based on the same facts. Convincing them largely isn't the point. There's value in the discussions/debate even if nobody leaves it with a different opinion. A greater understanding of why we disagree can be gained. It can help people on both sides of whatever issue keep the 'opposition' humanized. The mental value in challenging our own POV. Etc. Changing people's minds rarely happens even outside of conspiracy theorists - and most of what Rodgers has said falls well outside of that anyway - but that doesn't and shouldn't stop us from engaging.

A greater understanding of why we disagree can be gained.

But I know why we disagree. He doesn't believe the statistics that have been presented by the government and scientific community. He thinks there is a vast global conspiracy to hide the real cure because it is a generic drug. These are things he has said publicly.

But I know why we disagree. He doesn't believe the statistics that have been presented by the government and scientific community. He thinks there is a vast global conspiracy to hide the real cure because it is a generic drug. These are things he has said publicly.

Maybe if there wasn't such a political spin on everything, one could engage on these issues. You talk about Belief like it's some sort of religious truth. Studies are often messy. Even messier when a government appointee is presenting them. Faith and science don't play well together. Scientists have to be skeptics when they're analyzing a hypothesis because what they're trying to do is present a confidence that two concepts are not part of the same data set.

Rodgers has made the point that spirited debate and science are constants. He's absolutely right about that. We're only two years into COVID - medical researchers are still learning, and what they've learned so far is because their research proposals for human subjects have been fast-tracked.

We miss the opportunity to find out what his objections are when we vilify him, call him a heretic, make fun of his girlfriend's past, reduce his arguments to simple extreme statements and then attack those like he's an idiot. When we talk about "horse paste" and accuse him of being a Klan member.

Why would he engage with someone like that, then? Why would anyone engage in a real debate with someone who does that? And thus a chance to address what we're fairly certain isn't true (his Ivermectin conspiracy remarks) by pointing, calmly, to the studies that have already been written.

Perhaps, even, there are things you Believe that haven't been shown at all. If you've been relying on government appointees and the media rather than looking at studies, it's possible you've come to some conclusions that are just as dangerous as anyone else's. I don't know. You don't present yourself as someone who could have a calm, rational conversation about all of this. You sound just as entrenched as the extreme controversy Believers on the other side.

It's hard to talk about this stuff once it gets so political and so religious. Good advice on COVID has changed rapidly, and will continue to change. We're all in this together. I think the media has done far more harm than good with its continual hot takes and Beliefs. Their clicks come from division and hate, and that's exactly what we don't need right now.

I somewhat agree with this BUT there's a great many on both sides of the extreme that premeditatedly have said publicly or privately in encrypted ways that the end goal of debate is a 'fight or war or revolution'. These are dangerous groups and dangerous tides and I think the hard part is figuring out the line of people who are dabbling in crazy but keep a foot in moderation and those who dabble in moderation (vocally at times [I would argue a willingness to lie which I find ironic]) yet are preparing for the impending fight. That's why those who showed up at 1/6 with weapons and those who fought at the capital must be treated with the harshest of penalties. those who were merely swept up in the push to move towards the big building because 'tourism' might get a lesser slap on the hand. Yes some will be caught in both nets and that's a price one pays for being around their flock of feathers.

Just for the record

“But when you say stuff like that, and then you have the CDC, which — how do you even trust them — but then they come out and talk about 75% of the COVID deaths have at least four comorbidities,” he continued. “And you still have this fake White House set saying that this is the pandemic of the unvaccinated. That’s not helping the conversation.”

Walensky said:

"A really important study — if I may just summarize it — a study of 1.2 million people who were vaccinated between December and October and demonstrated that severe disease occurred in about 0.015% of the people who receive their primary series. And death in 0.003% of those people. The overwhelming number of deaths — over 75% — occurred in people who had at least four comorbidities, so really these are people who were unwell to begin with.

WHO WERE VACCINATED

That's right. So the math (I think) is

1.2M vaccinated x .003% Deaths x 75%. So a miniscule number relatively speaking.

Ivermectin caught on because one study showed in a lab setting that a higher than approved use dosage of Ivermectin kills the Covid 19 virus. I'm sure there are countless other things we could find that kills Covid in a lab setting as well, but there's no evidence it works within the human body with the same effectiveness when given an approved dosage.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure that liquid bleach administered via intramuscular injection would also destroy COVID*, but it's not a super great idea.

I've read there is a robust Duke study going on the human version of Ivermectin (not the horse version).

Meanwhile, there are 3 vaccines with billions of administered doses being monitored by multiple health authorities for statistically significant adverse events and what has been found is that they are statistically safer than ivermectin even when ivermectin is administered to humans for its intended use.

To use an analogy appropriate for this forum, you are head coach of an NFL team down by 7 points with 2 minutes left in the game. I give you your choice of QB. You may have Tom Brady (Pfizer COVID vaccine) or LeBron James (Ivermectin). Which do you choose?

*though would unlikely be as effective as Pfizer's new antiviral drug

Perhaps, even, there are things you Believe that haven't been shown at all. If you've been relying on government appointees and the media rather than looking at studies, it's possible you've come to some conclusions that are just as dangerous as anyone else's. I don't know. You don't present yourself as someone who could have a calm, rational conversation about all of this. You sound just as entrenched as the extreme controversy Believers on the other side.

It feels like you're asserting that it's just as legitimate to believe what Aaron Rodgers says about the science behind COVID as, say, Anthony Fauci.

If that's not what you're asserting, maybe you should clarify.

We miss the opportunity to find out what his objections are when we vilify him, call him a heretic, make fun of his girlfriend's past, reduce his arguments to simple extreme statements and then attack those like he's an idiot. When we talk about "horse paste" and accuse him of being a Klan member.

Why would he engage with someone like that, then? Why would anyone engage in a real debate with someone who does that? And thus a chance to address what we're fairly certain isn't true (his Ivermectin conspiracy remarks) by pointing, calmly, to the studies that have already been written.

We've missed nothing. Aaron Rodgers is a HOF NFL QB with ready access at any time to spread his message on national media both friendly (Rogan, FOX, OAN) and unfriendly.

He has been given ample opportunity to explain his position, he has taken that opportunity, and his assertions have been dissected and disproven by data, facts, and logic. Only then did the name-calling come out.

That's right. So the math (I think) is

1.2M vaccinated x .003% Deaths x 75%. So a miniscule number relatively speaking.

Risk Factors for Severe COVID-19 Outcomes Among Persons Aged ≥18 Years Who Completed a Primary COVID-19 Vaccination Series — 465 Health Care Facilities, United States, December 2020–October 2021 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7101a4.htm)

Here's the study in question. It's pretty clear it's only a study of vaccinated people and obviously before Omicron made up almost 100% of new cases, as is the case today in the US. Eight out of 1.2 million who didn't have four or more co-morbidities and were vaccinated died. Of the 1.2 million, 189 became seriously ill, and none of those 189 didn't share at least one co-morbidity.

This is the list of co-morbidities: Age 65 or older, overweight or obese, diabetes mellitus, immunosuppression (includes HIV, cancer, organ transplant drugs, immunosuppressive therapy, immunodeficiency), chronic kidney disease, chronic neurologic disease (includes Dementia), chronic cardiac disease, chronic pulmonary disease (includes Asthma) and chronic liver disease.

"Adjusted odds ratios (aOR) of severe COVID-19 outcomes after primary vaccination were higher among persons aged ≥65 years (aOR = 3.22; 95% CI = 1.81–5.74), and those with immunosuppression (aOR = 1.91; 95% CI = 1.37–2.66), pulmonary disease (aOR = 1.69; 95% CI = 1.31–2.18), liver disease (aOR = 1.68; 95% CI = 1.12–2.52), chronic kidney disease (aOR = 1.61; 95% CI = 1.19–2.19), neurologic disease (aOR = 1.54; 95% CI = 1.06–2.25), diabetes (aOR = 1.47; 95% CI = 1.14–1.89), or cardiac disease (aOR = 1.44; 95% CI = 1.01–2.06) (Figure 1). Compared with persons who received the Janssen vaccine, Pfizer-BioNTech recipients had similar odds of severe outcomes (aOR = 0.70; 95% CI = 0.39–1.26), whereas recipients of the Moderna vaccine had lower odds (aOR = 0.56; 95% CI = 0.32–0.98). Odds of severe outcomes did not differ significantly by sex, race/ethnicity, time since primary vaccination, or whether infection occurred during the period of Delta variant predominance. Previous COVID-19 illness was associated with reduced odds of severe outcomes (aOR = 0.27; 95% CI = 0.09–0.84)."

We do not seem to have a similar large-scale study that would answer the question Rodgers and others have wrongly attributed to the entire population (including unvaccinated).

However.... only 2,246 of the 1.23 million vaccinated people got COVID. So now we're looking at 8.4% of those who got COVID and were vaccinated getting seriously ill (again, all with at least one co-morbidity, though that could mean the only risk was that they were over 65).

What we see with Omicron is a huge number of infections in those who are vaccinated.

A similar-scale study in our new Omicron world seems important - I'm sure it's being completed at this point. But I don't like the assertions from the government when we're kinda talking apples and oranges here. It's a legitimate topic to discuss and the goal should be to convince people it's in their own best interest to get vaccinated.

BNT162b2 (Pfizer–Biontech) mRNA COVID-19 Vaccine Against Omicron-Related Hospital and Emergency Department Admission in a Large US Health System: A Test-Negative Design by Sara Y. Tartof, Jeff M. Slezak, Laura Puzniak, Vennis Hong, Fagen Xie, Bradley K. Ackerson, Srinivas R. Valluri, Luis Jodar, John M. McLaughlin :: SSRN (https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=4011905)

Here's a Pfizer study showing that the vaccine provides only partial protection against Omicron. The flow-chart (click on the link) indicates about half of the emergency department visits related to Omicron are in vaccinated people.

(they caution that this study has not yet seen peer review)

So, Pfizer is working on a vaccine candidate specifically tailored to Omicron.

Pfizer and BioNTech Initiate Study to Evaluate Omicron-Based COVID-19 Vaccine in Adults 18 to 55 Years of Age | Pfizer (https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-initiate-study-evaluate-omicron-based)

Like flu shots, it's possible (and I have no idea - apples and oranges again) that there might be new, tailored boosters every year or even less. That's going to be a very hard sell to people. Right now, about 52% of the adult population gets annual flu shots. I don't. Perhaps I should. I should definitely read more.

Maybe if there wasn't such a political spin on everything, one could engage on these issues. You talk about Belief like it's some sort of religious truth. Studies are often messy. Even messier when a government appointee is presenting them. Faith and science don't play well together. Scientists have to be skeptics when they're analyzing a hypothesis because what they're trying to do is present a confidence that two concepts are not part of the same data set.

Rodgers has made the point that spirited debate and science are constants. He's absolutely right about that. We're only two years into COVID - medical researchers are still learning, and what they've learned so far is because their research proposals for human subjects have been fast-tracked.

We miss the opportunity to find out what his objections are when we vilify him, call him a heretic, make fun of his girlfriend's past, reduce his arguments to simple extreme statements and then attack those like he's an idiot. When we talk about "horse paste" and accuse him of being a Klan member.

Why would he engage with someone like that, then? Why would anyone engage in a real debate with someone who does that? And thus a chance to address what we're fairly certain isn't true (his Ivermectin conspiracy remarks) by pointing, calmly, to the studies that have already been written.

Perhaps, even, there are things you Believe that haven't been shown at all. If you've been relying on government appointees and the media rather than looking at studies, it's possible you've come to some conclusions that are just as dangerous as anyone else's. I don't know. You don't present yourself as someone who could have a calm, rational conversation about all of this. You sound just as entrenched as the extreme controversy Believers on the other side.

It's hard to talk about this stuff once it gets so political and so religious. Good advice on COVID has changed rapidly, and will continue to change. We're all in this together. I think the media has done far more harm than good with its continual hot takes and Beliefs. Their clicks come from division and hate, and that's exactly what we don't need right now.

We've had a large number of people who are also willfully engaging in bad faith arguments to just try and muddle the actual discussion you're talking about. We've seen this as a very popular topic with everything from smoking to climate change to COVID. Some do it for personal enrichment, some do it because they like the attention, some do it for personal reasons ranging from ignorance to narcissism, and some just like to watch the world burn.

I strongly disagree with what seems to be your sentiment that engaging in that sort of rhetoric is some harmless sophist exercise. It has literally - not "literally" like coachspeak misspeak "literally" - but literally - in the dictionary definition - cost millions of lives over the last century.

That can't be brushed aside when we're talking about this. How do you propose to provide scrutiny because that's part of providing a large platform to someone like Rodgers (or Joe Rogan or whoever)?

SI

Here's a Pfizer study showing that the vaccine provides only partial protection against Omicron. The flow-chart (click on the link) indicates about half of the emergency department visits related to Omicron are in vaccinated people.

This is really stretching the word "partial". Every vaccine we have for every disease provides "partial" protection.

The study you linked to shows that those who are boosted have a vaccine effectiveness of 89%. That is an absolutely remarkable number and a miracle of modern medicine. If everyone received the vaccine, the virus would likely cease to exist (barring some massive genetic mutation).

I get that you're trying to muddy the water, but you're just providing links to studies that prove how well the vaccine works.

We miss the opportunity to find out what his objections are when we vilify him, call him a heretic, make fun of his girlfriend's past, reduce his arguments to simple extreme statements and then attack those like he's an idiot. When we talk about "horse paste" and accuse him of being a Klan member.

No we didn't. He explained what his objections were to a national audience. From blood clots to infertility to exceptionally rare allergic reactions. Many experts in the field proceeded to address his objections and show they are not merited using actual data we have from scientific studies.

Perhaps, even, there are things you Believe that haven't been shown at all. If you've been relying on government appointees and the media rather than looking at studies, it's possible you've come to some conclusions that are just as dangerous as anyone else's. I don't know. You don't present yourself as someone who could have a calm, rational conversation about all of this. You sound just as entrenched as the extreme controversy Believers on the other side.

We aren't talking about things I believe that haven't been shown at all. What I believe is backed up by countless data points and scientific studies (even the studies you posted). There is no political or religious slant to that. Just as there is no slant to when I take an antibiotic when I have an infection.

I don't really know how you can debate someone who believes all the evidence is a vast global conspiracy. It's why conspiracy theorists are hard to debate. Everyone who provides evidence to the contrary is part of the conspiracy or in Rodgers case, trying to "cancel" him.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As a result of the <a href="https://twitter.com/US_FDA?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@US_FDA</a>'s abrupt decision to remove the EUAs for two monoclonal antibodies, monoclonal antibody treatment sites will be closed until further notice. Full press release is below. <a href="https://t.co/RGeWTPwxCs">pic.twitter.com/RGeWTPwxCs</a></p>&mdash; Florida Dept. of Health (@HealthyFla) <a href="https://twitter.com/HealthyFla/status/1485813688967827461?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 25, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

For those keeping track, anti-vax logic is we can't trust the fully authorized vaccines because there isn't enough evidence. BUT actually, no, the government should authorize any treatment whatsoever unless there is a clinical study saying that it is harmful.

This isn't even about medicine anymore. It's an assault on the idea of using logic itself.

dola:

Even better. Apparently, there is just a concession on the Right that Republicans will benefit from COVID treatments more than Democrats.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The FDA is trying to make it so that people in Florida die of Covid. They’ll kill people to harm Republicans. Steel yourselves for the evil that is being unleashed. <a href="https://t.co/hP55vngVbh">https://t.co/hP55vngVbh</a></p>&mdash; Cernovich (@Cernovich) <a href="https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1485822612433358851?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 25, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And why might the members of the political party who are more likely to be vaccinated have less need for extreme COVID treatments? I guess we'll never know.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">As a result of the <a href="https://twitter.com/US_FDA?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@US_FDA</a>'s abrupt decision to remove the EUAs for two monoclonal antibodies, monoclonal antibody treatment sites will be closed until further notice. Full press release is below. <a href="https://t.co/RGeWTPwxCs">pic.twitter.com/RGeWTPwxCs</a></p>&mdash; Florida Dept. of Health (@HealthyFla) <a href="https://twitter.com/HealthyFla/status/1485813688967827461?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 25, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

For those keeping track, anti-vax logic is we can't trust the fully authorized vaccines because there isn't enough evidence. BUT actually, no, the government should authorize any treatment whatsoever unless there is a clinical study saying that it is harmful.

This isn't even about medicine anymore. It's an assault on the idea of using logic itself.

The only way to keep the outrage against THEM (and fear of THEM) going is to oppose everything they do. It doesn't matter if it's logical or prudent or even falls within what has historically been a conservative position, agreeing means that you have something in common with evil, and that cannot stand.

dola:

Even better. Apparently, there is just a concession on the Right that Republicans will benefit from COVID treatments more than Democrats.

The FDA is trying to make it so that people in Florida die of Covid. They’ll kill people to harm Republicans. Steel yourselves for the evil that is being unleashed. Florida Dept. of Health on Twitter: "As a result of the @US_FDA's abrupt decision to remove the EUAs for two monoclonal antibodies, monoclonal antibody treatment sites will be closed until further notice. Full press release is below.… https://t.co/79v1N599IH" (https://t.co/hP55vngVbh)
— Cernovich (@Cernovich) January 25, 2022 (https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1485822612433358851?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) <script async="" src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

And why might the members of the political party who are more likely to be vaccinated have less need for extreme COVID treatments? I guess we'll never know.

It's also part of that whole lack of imagination where you accuse your "enemies" of that horrible thing you've already done. Remember when Jared Kushner killed off COVID testing because it was killing more blue state voters?

How Jared Kushner’s Secret Testing Plan “Went Poof Into Thin Air� | Vanity Fair (https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/07/how-jared-kushners-secret-testing-plan-went-poof-into-thin-air)

SI

Until today, I didn't realize that this was a thing... but I'm also not at all shocked.

My neighbor and her husband both got COVID. Instead of going to her doctor, she saw a fee-based doctor virtually and was prescribed Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin. The doctor also told them "Make sure you don't go to the hospital. Don't let them take you to the hospital."

My immediate thought was... so this is what all those doctors that were writing hundreds of Oxycontin prescriptions a day are doing now.

Until today, I didn't realize that this was a thing... but I'm also not at all shocked.

My neighbor and her husband both got COVID. Instead of going to her doctor, she saw a fee-based doctor virtually and was prescribed Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin. The doctor also told them "Make sure you don't go to the hospital. Don't let them take you to the hospital."

My immediate thought was... so this is what all those doctors that were writing hundreds of Oxycontin prescriptions a day are doing now.


Ivermectin frenzy: the advocates, anti-vaxxers and telehealth companies driving demand | Coronavirus | The Guardian (https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/13/ivermectin-treatment-covid-19-anti-vaxxers-advocates)

Those are some of the very same people (or members of the same organisations) that stand on podiums and decry the money grabbing of *insert anybody in pharma or medicine down to the nurses getting paid extra for administering vaccines on Sundays*.

Has the increased demand on Ivermectin either reduced the supply or increased the cost to people/livestock that need it for its real use? I've never seen that directly addressed in any articles. If so than taking or promoting it for evidence-free, off-label usage isn't a harmless exercise.

Has the increased demand on Ivermectin either reduced the supply or increased the cost to people/livestock that need it for its real use? I've never seen that directly addressed in any articles. If so than taking or promoting it for evidence-free, off-label usage isn't a harmless exercise.

Why yes, of course it has:

In countries where there’s either a shortage of ivermectin meant for humans or people are unable to get prescriptions, some are seeking out the veterinary variant, which can pose the risk of severe side effects. Afrivet Business Management, a major South African maker of animal medicines, has seen prices of its ivermectin product at retail outlets in the country jump tenfold, to almost 1,000 rand ($66) per 10 milliliters.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-10-13/ivermectin-demand-sends-sales-soaring-for-foreign-generic-drugmakers)

So Dr. Emerson began rationing the medicine to give to snakes and other exotic animals for which she had no other deworming treatment. She told dog owners to pay for a more available replacement drug that can cost seven times as much.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/28/technology/ivermectin-animal-medicine-shortage.html


More:

US horse owners face ivermectin shortage as humans chase unproven Covid ‘cure’ | Coronavirus | The Guardian (https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/sep/20/ivermectin-shortage-horse-owners-covid)

Ivermectin is a wonder drug but not for COVID — and misinformation is causing a shortage (https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.6158777)


People also tend to be more likely to overdose taking stuff 'off-label' (Actual off-label use would still require a doctor to specifically prescribe it along with verbal advise on dosage, which obviously isn't likely to be the case for many getting it via these telemarketing firms or other dodgy methods). And even aside from all that: of course it's inherently dangerous to sell people on what might well be nothing more than a Placebo. Because of course that influences not only their or their environments decision to get vaccinated but also seek proper treatment once ill. Delaying this because you have a 'cure' at home or on the way isn't exactly going to improve the outcome.

I know some feed stores in Wisconsin were stashing the stuff behind the counter and requiring proof you owned an actual horse (or other animal that would use it).

Why yes, of course it has:

Thanks for that info. I feel like a lot of Ivermectin promoters have framed it as an entirely personal choice, and touted its lifesaving history, while ignoring that any dosage someone takes for unproven covid treatment is actively reducing the supply to those folks/animals who have a proven use for it.

I know some feed stores in Wisconsin were stashing the stuff behind the counter and requiring proof you owned an actual horse (or other animal that would use it).

this sounded like a butcher shop the way you described it :(

https://mobile.twitter.com/gorskon/status/1486141701785890823

Speaking of consequences going much further than 'only' personal choice or Covid. This is NOT about Covid vaccine mandates or Covid vaccines for the figures you see at the head of those movements or the politicians latching onto them.

Also, FOX isn't even bothering to hide it's agenda anymore:

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1486072329172140032

Perfect illustration by the way on muddying the waters with talk of treatments in a vacuum and as a replacement for prevention. Treatments are great ti have but not having them or their respective limitations (availability, effectiveness, timing of when they help vs when people get them) isn't a conspiracy. It's literally bitching about issues that were communicated beforehand.

(Good on the guest doctor, who certainly isn't coming back, for pointing out the obvious)

https://mobile.twitter.com/MattGertz/status/1486160372910465033

"Personal choice" (Alex Berenson saying the vaccines should be shelved entirely)

Not a medical ethics person but this sounds right to me. I generally admire someone sticking to his principles but this seems so unnecessarily stubborn. Is this non-vax principle really worth it at death's door? What really is it about "this vaccination" that is keeping you from getting a heart transplant that will very likely prolong your life for X years?

In this particular case, it doesn't seem his anti-vax stance is putting anyone at risk so have at it. The next patient in line might want to write this guy a nice thank you letter.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brigham-and-womens-hospital-boston-refusing-heart-transplant-man-wont-get-vaccinated/
A Boston hospital says it won't consider performing a heart transplant on a patient who refuses to get vaccinated against COVID-19, CBS Boston reports.

DJ Ferguson, 31, is fighting for his life at Brigham and Women's Hospital and in desperate need of a heart transplant.
:
DJ's family says he was at the front of the line to receive a transplant but hospital policy stipulates that he's no longer eligible because he hasn't received the vaccination. And David Ferguson says his son simply won't.

"It's kind of against his basic principles — he doesn't believe in it," David Ferguson says. "It's a policy they are enforcing and so, because he won't get the shot, they took him off the list (for) a heart transplant."

Brigham and Women's released a statement saying, "Like many other transplant programs in the United States — the COVID-19 vaccine is one of several vaccines and lifestyle behaviors required for transplant candidates in the Mass General Brigham system in order to create both the best chance for a successful operation and also the patient's survival after transplantation."
:
"Post any transplant, kidney, heart whatever, your immune system is shut off," Caplan said. "The flu could kill you, a cold could kill you, COVID could kill you. The organs are scarce, we are not going to distribute them to someone who has a poor chance of living when others who are vaccinated have a better chance post-surgery of surviving."

It’s mind blowingly idiotic. So the vaccine kills him lets say. Gonna sue anyway dude and if you’re concerned about what you are putting in your body newsflash. You’re going to take about 20 pills a day.

My mother in law is a heart transplant recipient. The amount of meds she takes is insane.

These people are beyond my comprehension.

I certainly don't think its a malicious thing but seems there are a lot of pharmacies refusing to give 4th shots for immune compromised folks.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/26/health/fourth-shots-immune-compromised/index.html
The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention plans to send a clear message to pharmacies on a conference call this week: Stop turning away immune-compromised people when they come seeking fourth doses of Covid-19 vaccines.

Although fourth doses are not currently recommended for the vast majority of Americans, the CDC has urged millions of people with compromised immune systems to get them.

But many immune-compromised people tell CNN that pharmacies and hospitals have refused to give them fourth doses, leaving those most vulnerable to the virus without the protection the CDC wants them to have.

Several of the pharmacies that denied fourth shots told CNN that they look to their state health departments for guidance, and they'd heard nothing from them about fourth shots for immune-compromised people.

Seems more of mis-communication (or under communication). I didn't realize pharmacies look for final guidance on State vs CDC. Basically, State websites are not up to date. Hope they get this fixed soon.

Several of the pharmacies that denied fourth shots told CNN that they look to their state health departments for guidance, and they'd heard nothing from them about fourth shots for immune-compromised people.

Crystal Boatenreiter, a liver transplant recipient, says she was denied a fourth shot at Springfield Drug Store in Springfield, Louisiana.

David Cassanova, the pharmacist there, told CNN that he's been watching his state website and hasn't seen anything about fourth shots for immune-compromised people.

"People on the front lines are not familiar with fourth doses being available yet," he said. "We haven't been given guidance on this."
:
A review last week by CNN found that several state health departments fail to mention on their websites that the CDC recommends four shots for immune-compromised people.

These people are beyond my comprehension.

"It's his body. It's his choice," Ferguson added.

I would love to know this families stance on abortion.

Covid has developed stealth technology!

Health officials monitoring new 'stealth Omicron' subvariant (https://nypost.com/2022/01/26/health-officials-monitoring-new-stealth-omicron-subvariant/)

I wonder if my coworker got this one. She started showing symptoms, then she took a test that ended up negative. A week later she took another test that came back positive.

Covid has developed stealth technology!

Health officials monitoring new 'stealth Omicron' subvariant (https://nypost.com/2022/01/26/health-officials-monitoring-new-stealth-omicron-subvariant/)

I wonder if my coworker got this one. She started showing symptoms, then she took a test that ended up negative. A week later she took another test that came back positive.

That's so stupid and sensationalist. not you, the article. (It is the NY Post after all)
Tldr version: No, the tests identify every variant/subtype including this one. There's merely a little sort of 'life hack' for labs that is now a little (!) less usefull in positively identifying it as a subtype since this new subtype and Delta give the same 'readout' in the lab looking at the test result while Delta and the original Omicron looked different.
For your coworker a likely scenario is simply that one sample was less well taken or handled for example. Or she just got her symptoms uncharacteristically early in the process of viral load buildup.

The long version:

You'll notice the article very much avoids burdening the reader with any explanation of how or why it's more difficult to detect, yet somehow the danish authorities referenced still quite obviously manage it, seeing they can quantify it's prevalence (65%) and btw also have record case rates, not exactly flying under their radar is this bugger ;)

The answer: It's 'stealth' aspect due to a certain mysterious and unspecified genetical trait has no bearing on tests ability to detect it as SarsCov2 (positive test). It makes it a little harder to identify it as a subtype very quickly with very high certainty but even that is largely a theoretical issue. There's this phenomenon, exclusive to PCR Tests called Spike Gene Target Failure (SGTF) which means that the 'portion' of the PCR Test looking at the Spike Gene comes up negative while the other portions targetting different Genes showing positive.
A PCR Test is essentially a testing series looking at multiple, usually 4 IIRC areas of the genome to make it able to identify the Virus (and only this one) reliably even if there are genetic changes to some areas or, say, certain genomes are better preserved in a sample than others. Even if just 1 shows positive you still know it is SarsCov2.
(Antigen tests work a bit differently in some ways but are also designed to detect all variants)

Now with Delta the Spike Gene portion showed positive, with Omicron it didn't due to a specific mutation: A small area of the S gene is missing (a deletion) in the Spike Gene. This meant that the lab could preliminarily differentiate the 2 quickly rather than waiting for full scale sequencing results. Imagine it usually coming back as PPPN for Omicron but PPPP for Delta.
This new Omicron Subtype, BA.2 for now, does not have this deletion but is otherwise so similar that it is still considered a subtype of Omicron. So now in theory you can't as easily tell if it is Delta or Omicron. In practice however Delta has been getting so rare and declining most everywhere that with more and more of tests showing as PPPP again (and of course a portion of cases getting fully sequenced in the lab, alerting scientists to the new subtype being there) you can still use the SGTF as a proxy to differentiate the difference between Omicron and BA.2.

Denmark did hit a sort of plateau of cases that then took off again after a couple of days, so it seems reasonable to think this has outcompeted the 'normal' Omicron at a time when it was starting to fizzle out there. This may also well mean other countries with different timing will see 2 seperate Omicron waves ...

These people are beyond my comprehension.

What is beyond most of our comprehension is the power of the communication tactics that have brought most of these people to this point.

For a professional take on these things 2 Twitter Threads by Scientists regularly explaining these things very well:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">��NO! There is no new variant that isn't detectable by PCR��<br><br>The a new set of sequences, closely related to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Omicron?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Omicron</a> has been detected &amp; we *absolutely can* detect cases with PCR. What we can't tell as easily is /that they are Omicron or Omicron-like/.<a href="https://t.co/5bCKxdv8vF">https://t.co/5bCKxdv8vF</a></p>&mdash; Dr Emma Hodcroft (@firefoxx66) <a href="https://twitter.com/firefoxx66/status/1468254350124494852?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 7, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">COVID-19 surveillance, England. The most recent 5 days (to 28 Nov) show an increase in S gene target failure in community testing data. An explainer follows. �� <a href="https://t.co/ZBEMEzbpOt">pic.twitter.com/ZBEMEzbpOt</a></p>&mdash; Nick Davies (@_nickdavies) <a href="https://twitter.com/_nickdavies/status/1466204363110633476?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 2, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I wonder if my coworker got this one. She started showing symptoms, then she took a test that ended up negative. A week later she took another test that came back positive.

There are a lot of informal indications that many Omicron cases do not fully exhibit in the nasal cavity, so people testing that way might show false negatives, while swabbing the throat would yield an accurate positive test.

Frustrating, as we want to hang a lot of day-to-day functional policy around the value of a negative test.

These people are beyond my comprehension.

what's to comprehend. They are stubborn stupid assholes.

For my birthday, instead of presents, I would like you to go out and tell an antimasker or antivaxxer to go to hell.

For my birthday, instead of presents, I would like you to go out and tell an antimasker or antivaxxer to go to hell.

In lieu of flowers, send flaming bags of dog poop to Joe Rogan and his cadre of snake oil salesmen.

SI

Denmark is opening up!

Hopefully this is causing some people to finally see the benefits of the vaccines.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Robert LaMay, the ex-Washington state trooper who said the governor could “kiss his ass” over the state’s vaccine mandate, has died<br><br>He was reportedly battling COVID and unvaccinated <a href="https://t.co/HMOmR5wkq0">pic.twitter.com/HMOmR5wkq0</a></p>&mdash; philip lewis (@Phil_Lewis_) <a href="https://twitter.com/Phil_Lewis_/status/1487241850431881219?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 29, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Judging by the first few responses...nah.

Washington trooper who defied state vaccine mandate and told gov to &#x27;kiss my a--&#x27; dies from COVID-19 | Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/washington-trooper-who-defied-states-vaccine-mandate-dies-from-covid)

I mean, fuck 'em. They want to be martyrs, let them be martyrs.

I don’t feel owned by his unnecessary death.

In lieu of flowers, send flaming bags of dog poop to Joe Rogan and his cadre of snake oil salesmen.

SI

I think a more fitting karma would be that he has to eat ALL of the things he made his contestants eat on Fear Factor.

https://scontent.fluk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/272915769_10161876317354196_2627121993860767955_n.jpg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=g95ly_ZHjKUAX9PhmA3&_nc_ht=scontent.fluk1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-XfOsIq_QF_nMHZSQjHYE_4zE-3YSN8Gi2_y6q7aRigA&oe=61F9E4B8

Another mutation that is easier to catch but current vaccines should do the job.

https://www.cnn.com/2022/01/27/health/omicron-sublineage-ba2/index.html
A new spinoff of the Omicron variant of the coronavirus is getting attention from scientists as it becomes the dominant cause of Covid-19 infections in some parts of the world.

Experts say there's no reason to panic over the lineage, called BA.2, which was first identified in early December and has since spread to 49 countries including the United States.
:
:
There's no indication that BA.2 causes more severe disease or spreads more easily than the original strain of Omicron. A report released Thursday by the UK's Health Security Agency offers additional reassurance, suggesting that current vaccines protect about as well against BA.2 as they do against the original Omicron variant, with better protection against symptoms — an average of about 70% -- two weeks after a booster.
And about my comment above about Denmark opening up ...

In Denmark, BA.2 now accounts for about half of all new Covid-19 cases, according to a recent statement from Denmark's Statens Serum Institute.

On Thursday, Dr. Sujeet Kumar Singh, director of India's National Centre for Disease Control, said that BA.2 had become the dominant strain there.

Neil Young probably knew he would lose out to Rogan but hoped he would start something going. So kudos to Joni Mitchell for joining.

This brings up the question if/when will other "more popular" artists will join the fight. Obviously they'll have to assess the cost/benefit of such a move.

Singer-songwriter Joni Mitchell said she will remove her music from Spotify, following controversy over vaccine misinformation hosted on the streaming platform.

"Irresponsible people are spreading lies that are costing people their lives," the Canadian musician wrote in a statement posted on her website Friday. "I stand in solidarity with Neil Young and the global scientific and medical communities on this issue."

Been saying this whole time Neil Young isn't shit, but if Taylor Swift and a few others jump in they are in real risk of being a platform that has Rogan, Ted Nugent, and Kid Rock as their draws.

Why is Joe Rogan's podcast popular? What is his appeal?

I'm not insinuating any criticism here but I really don't know who the guy is other than hearing about his podcast.

Why is Joe Rogan's podcast popular? What is his appeal?

I'm not insinuating any criticism here but I really don't know who the guy is other than hearing about his podcast.

Rogan may have had a standup carerer but the first time i saw him was on the 90s sitcom Newsradio. He was hilarious there as was everyone. That was the first time I saw Stephen Root(Office Space, King of the Hill), Maura Tierney (ER), Khandi ALexander (CSI Miami), Vicki Lewis (Finding Nemo), Andy DIck (Ben Stiller show/Andy Dick show) too.

After that he did Fear Factor forever a survivor like reality show that skipped the voting out and just made people do challenges to tackle their fear...usually things involving heights, vehicles, and eating disgusting animal parts.

I don't know how or why or when he became a rightwing mouthpiece the size of Moreton Downey Jr or Rush Limbaugh. The more obnoxious they are, the more the right follows them seems to be the rule

https://scontent.fluk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/p843x403/272143324_10158807843093869_7102272293665221848_n.jpg?_nc_cat=1&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=akDEDMc586UAX_bNeJR&_nc_ht=scontent.fluk1-1.fna&oh=00_AT_5f-LAiFS_ncx4nSii0QGdamqG0UBqPrwjWToHN9sOQA&oe=61FAF6C9

It's an empowering feeling when you gather that you have it right, and they are suckers and are missing it. That's basically always been the motivation behind conspiracy theories and the psychology at work is what makes stuff like Art Bell popular. It's invigorating to have someone say "you and me, we get it, not like those other people."

That's an awful lot of what's going on with the wave of... skepticism isn't the right word... denialism, maybe. you don't lure someone to that side with logic or information, you lure them there with empowerment and satisfaction. (And that's also why logic and information are rarely useful on helping anyone out of that mindset)

People like Aaron Rodgers, frex, really are convinced "I did my own research" and that feels good to say. It's horseshit, of course, he just skimmed through some crap that supported his predispositions, and ignored stuff from sources he was inclined to ignore. We're all human, we all do it to a degree.

But when you beg someone to join your side, on today's topics of vaccinations and COVID-related points of view, you're all but telling them to trade in "I'm the one who makes the decision" and instead accept "someone else will make the decision for me," and that feels impossibly stupid and dangerous and hard, especially if they've bought in along the way to the notion that the scientists and politicians are not merely wrong about this, but that they have evil or harmful intentions.

This is powerful stuff.

I'm not an expert on Joe Rogan, but have listened now and then... he's a pretty good interviewer, and I think his appeal is partially pandering to the "badass" side, right? Just enough non-conformist stuff to make him a bit edgy, he smokes weed in the studio with Elon Musk and that makes headlines... but he gets Elon Musk into the studio at this point. I think it's a bit like Howard Stern in his prime - Stern was actually a gifted interviewer in my view, but he knew that his schtick required spanking lesbians from time to time to keep it rated R, and that there's a formula for being more widely popular than Fresh Air on public radio.

Rogan gets that, feels like a free spirit, and maybe isn't teflon enough to resist the draw of some of the low-hanging fruit of a conspiracy here and a russian propaganda article there... and so he falls into saying to a huge audience of millions and millions that (paraphrasing) "young healthy people shouldn't get the vaccine, this isn't a risky disease, but the vaccine is risky." Onece a bunch of authority figures line up to try to shout him down, he ends up trapped in this psychology... and predictably, he just goes full on jbmagic here and doubles his bet every next step. He'll bark untruths at the epidemiologist he has on as a guest, he'll go out of his way to find cockeyed sources to back up the side he has now taken.

I don't think he's a genuine right-winger, I think he's a regular guy, an actor, trying professionally to remain interesting and popular and relevant... and that has worked really well for him. Going public two or three steps into this and saying "gee, I really was a dope and didn't know what i was talking about, I'm so glad that some smart people fixed that for me" is counter to that brand, as well as counter to human instincts... so it won't happen. We all dig in facing that situation, and he just gave into strong instincts there.

Not saying he's blameless, but I think the whole thing is pretty understandable. It sucks, because he does have a meaningful effect on views of many listeners, I'm certain... he's almost certainly killed people as a consequence of his decision to be provocative on this.

I'm not an expert on Joe Rogan, but have listened now and then... he's a pretty good interviewer, and I think his appeal is partially pandering to the "badass" side, right? Just enough non-conformist stuff to make him a bit edgy, he smokes weed in the studio with Elon Musk and that makes headlines... but he gets Elon Musk into the studio at this point. I think it's a bit like Howard Stern in his prime - Stern was actually a gifted interviewer in my view, but he knew that his schtick required spanking lesbians from time to time to keep it rated R, and that there's a formula for being more widely popular than Fresh Air on public radio.

Rogan gets that, feels like a free spirit, and maybe isn't teflon enough to resist the draw of some of the low-hanging fruit of a conspiracy here and a russian propaganda article there... and so he falls into saying to a huge audience of millions and millions that (paraphrasing) "young healthy people shouldn't get the vaccine, this isn't a risky disease, but the vaccine is risky." Onece a bunch of authority figures line up to try to shout him down, he ends up trapped in this psychology... and predictably, he just goes full on jbmagic here and doubles his bet every next step. He'll bark untruths at the epidemiologist he has on as a guest, he'll go out of his way to find cockeyed sources to back up the side he has now taken.

I don't think he's a genuine right-winger, I think he's a regular guy, an actor, trying professionally to remain interesting and popular and relevant... and that has worked really well for him. Going public two or three steps into this and saying "gee, I really was a dope and didn't know what i was talking about, I'm so glad that some smart people fixed that for me" is counter to that brand, as well as counter to human instincts... so it won't happen. We all dig in facing that situation, and he just gave into strong instincts there.

Not saying he's blameless, but I think the whole thing is pretty understandable. It sucks, because he does have a meaningful effect on views of many listeners, I'm certain... he's almost certainly killed people as a consequence of his decision to be provocative on this.


I've never been a Rogan fan but I did get his appeal. I've described it as the guy that graduated high school a few years ago and still hangs around high schoolers smoking weed, buying beer, and dropping his worldly knowledge. It's cringe to a lot of people, but it strikes a certain cord with others.

I don't believe he's a right winger, but I do think he's seen the grift from others surrounding the MAGA movement and found himself a place firmly within that circle while tossing enough of his non-MAGA followers just enough of a bone to keep them around.

I think some of the anger toward Rogan is misguided. He's just a dumb guy who gets his views from random YouTube videos. This has been the case long before the pandemic. I think people like Carlson are worse because they know the truth but distort it for money.

His views aren't necessarily right-wing, it's just contrarian (which I guess is mostly the entire right-wing movement at this point). Common dumb guy who wants to look smart move. And other dumb people fall for it. There is no doubt his show has led to countless deaths, but I feel the bulk of the blame still goes to the audience who are just acting as a death cult now.

It'll be interesting to see how Spotify handles things. They killed their customer service yesterday to prevent people from cancelling which is likely not a good sign for how things are going. Losing a handful of artists is not going to matter, and music is a loss leader for their service. I don't think they'll ditch Rogan, but I do think it's a pretty big opportunity for competitors to snipe some market share.

I think some of the anger toward Rogan is misguided. He's just a dumb guy who gets his views from random YouTube videos. This has been the case long before the pandemic. I think people like Carlson are worse because they know the truth but distort it for money.

His views aren't necessarily right-wing, it's just contrarian (which I guess is mostly the entire right-wing movement at this point). Common dumb guy who wants to look smart move. And other dumb people fall for it. There is no doubt his show has led to countless deaths, but I feel the bulk of the blame still goes to the audience is just part of a death cult at this point.

It'll be interesting to see how Spotify handles things. They killed their customer service yesterday to prevent people from cancelling which is likely not a good sign for how things are going. Losing a handful of artists is not going to matter, and music is a loss leader for their service. I don't think they'll ditch Rogan, but I do think it's a pretty big opportunity for competitors to snipe some market share.


Tucker Carlson is 1000x times more dangerous as there are people that watch people like him and Hannity on Fox News and believe they're getting actual news. They're outright inflammatory and keep their audience's attention by keeping them angry. Rogan sells himself as the guy that wants to see things from the other perspective. He is 100% a professional contrarian.

That's an awful lot of what's going on with the wave of... skepticism isn't the right word... denialism, maybe. you don't lure someone to that side with logic or information, you lure them there with empowerment and satisfaction. (And that's also why logic and information are rarely useful on helping anyone out of that mindset)


I just want to say that I think this is a very interesting statement.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Suffolk?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Suffolk</a> County DA arrested two people including the owner of an Amityville pediatric office for selling fake Covid-19 vaccine cards. $220 for adults, $85 for children. Ledgers show they may have made $1.5 million dollars from this illegal scheme <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NBC4NY?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NBC4NY</a> <a href="https://t.co/jm0bcOkCeX">pic.twitter.com/jm0bcOkCeX</a></p>&mdash; Pei-Sze Cheng (@PeiSzeCheng4NY) <a href="https://twitter.com/PeiSzeCheng4NY/status/1487191814033584131?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">January 28, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>