Any holdup or shortage in test funding is going to directly affect the hospital I work at since it's a federal facility. They also only offer lab testing there. My wife, however, was able to go to urgent care and easily get tested with no symptoms. it took her 4 days to get the results back, though, compared to the roughly 20 hours it took me to get notification.

We have work clients who are requiring tests results to allow us on site (these are medical facilites so it makes sense)
The local urgent care is "free" for 7-10 day or '$200 and we will not even attempt to file insurance' for rapid results.
Due to the nature of our needs we've been using rapid. Between me and my guys they've made about $5k off me this month..

FIL is much worse today. You can tell while talking to him on the phone that he is struggling to breathe. BIL is an EMT so, he is going to check on him in person and likely take him.

This a few days after he said he was feeling better.

Ugh. Hoping for the best.

I hope things turn for the better soon, Spleen.

We have work clients who are requiring tests results to allow us on site (these are medical facilites so it makes sense)
The local urgent care is "free" for 7-10 day or '$200 and we will not even attempt to file insurance' for rapid results.
Due to the nature of our needs we've been using rapid. Between me and my guys they've made about $5k off me this month..

This still sucks and I'm surprised at how terrible testing is. How do we not have a test that can get results in hours like most other countries? Those saliva tests seem to work well.

This still sucks and I'm surprised at how terrible testing is. How do we not have a test that can get results in hours like most other countries? Those saliva tests seem to work well.


The rapid test results are 15-20 minutes.
What do you mean?

Shit Spleen, I hope things turn around fast :(

An article explaining how Hahn misrepresented the 35% reduction in mortality.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-24/fda-trump-officials-misrepresent-key-statistic-on-covid-therapy)
To understand the confusion over the 35% figure, it’s important to look at two concepts: relative risk and absolute risk.

Imagine a clinical trial to test an experimental drug, with 2,000 patients split into two groups. The first 1,000 patients don’t get the drug, and in that group 10 people die. The other group of 1,000 patients gets the drug, and five people in that group die.

Using relative risk, that’s a 50% improvement -- a tremendous number. But using absolute risk, the imaginary drug only decreases the likelihood of death from 1% to 0.5%. That means 5 more of those 1,000 people treated with the drug would live, not the 500 implied if you mistakenly use the 50% relative risk number.

The claim of a 35% mortality benefit made by Trump, Azar and Hahn uses the first measure -- relative risk. But because clinical trials of plasma therapy haven’t been completed, how many lives it actually saves -- the absolute risk improvement -- still isn’t known.

Hahn, in his tweet Monday, said he had muddled the difference. “What I should have said better is that the data show a relative risk reduction not an absolute risk reduction,” he said.

I get the difference but a 35% relative risk reduction is still pretty significant isn't it?

An article explaining how Hahn misrepresented the 35% reduction in mortality.

Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-08-24/fda-trump-officials-misrepresent-key-statistic-on-covid-therapy)


I get the difference but a 35% relative risk reduction is still pretty significant isn't it?

It's crazy how long that goddamn article is, and how complicated the explanation is, without mentioning the actual figures in question. I'm just going off of memory, but I believe that the treatment resulted in reducing the mortality rate from 11 percent to 8 percent, FWIW.

And it might well be those patients receiving less plasma (everybody in the study got treated with Plasma !) had a lower risk anyway. They literally and by design did not test if Plasma has X or Y positive effect compared with other forms of treatment or no treatment. They tested if it was safe to use and if there might be potential positive difference in higher dosages.

Efficacy of medication is a bitch to figure out, much less prove. That's the reality. It's understandable that this is frustrating and that the only proven method is offputting (taking many, many patients* and half get the new treatment and half get nothing or, by now, a different treatment regiment where we already have a baseline). But without that literally all is guesswork. Especially when your parameter is mortality. It's like measuring the quality of a sports team purely based on the end result in a single day tournament with 3 games against random opponents, without watching the games or even looking up any statistics beyond the score. Afterwards you can say with confidence who won that day, but that is it. But you can't really judge how the same team would do over the next 100 Games.
Maybe they got the perfect opponents. Maybe they won despite playing terrible.

* Because individually you just don't know beforehand what a persons risk of dying is.

This is pretty cool.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Some big news out of the University of Arizona (<a href="https://twitter.com/uarizona?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@uarizona</a>):<br><br>UA scientists &amp; staff found a coronavirus outbreak on campus *before it happened* — and seem to have snuffed it out.<br><br>How in the world do you do that?<br><br>You use wastewater testing.</p>&mdash; (((Charles Fishman))) (@cfishman) <a href="https://twitter.com/cfishman/status/1299049476288544768?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">August 27, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

So, both in laws were admitted to the hospital on Wednesday. MIL was confirmed to have COVID.

FIL was doing better last night when we talked to him, but Wed night and yesterday morning things were kind of scary. Dude has COVID, pneumonia, and a blood clot in one of his lungs. They treat the clot with blood thinners which made his temp drop to 93. He could barely say 2-3 words without having trouble breathing. They are also treating him with an antibiotic that I assume is for the pneumonia.

Talked to him around 5pm last night and he wasn't struggling to breathe and they had his temp under control. He sounded almost normal on the phone.

Today, they are both getting blood that has COVID anti-bodies.

I appreciate the well wishes. Thanks, guys.

Yikes that's terrifying! Glad to hear your FIL is getting better. Hope there are no more scares!

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Glad things seem to be getting better. So scary.

So good to hear.

Either my Kroger is getting a lot more efficient the last month or the number of people doing grocery pick up is dwindling a lot.

I get my groceries at almost the same time every week (12:30-1 after lunch) though on variable days. Into June, you sometimes couldn't find a spot (mainly because some jackasses refused to pull all the way up in their 2-deep parking spots, but that's beside the point here). But the last month, I've been by myself or 1 of 2 cars there.

Anyone else seeing this where they are at?

SI

Either my Kroger is getting a lot more efficient the last month or the number of people doing grocery pick up is dwindling a lot.

I get my groceries at almost the same time every week (12:30-1 after lunch) though on variable days. Into June, you sometimes couldn't find a spot (mainly because some jackasses refused to pull all the way up in their 2-deep parking spots, but that's beside the point here). But the last month, I've been by myself or 1 of 2 cars there.

Anyone else seeing this where they are at?

SI

My Walmart has actually added 5-10 more parking spots because so many people use it-almost always a lot of cars in them when driving by.

Either my Kroger is getting a lot more efficient the last month or the number of people doing grocery pick up is dwindling a lot.

I get my groceries at almost the same time every week (12:30-1 after lunch) though on variable days. Into June, you sometimes couldn't find a spot (mainly because some jackasses refused to pull all the way up in their 2-deep parking spots, but that's beside the point here). But the last month, I've been by myself or 1 of 2 cars there.

Anyone else seeing this where they are at?

SI

Our pickup has had a lot more items in stock. Fewer substitutions. Our Kroger did add like double the spots as well earlier this year, bit it seems things are well stocked when they weren't before.

Stock on certain items is finally picking back up to normal. Like I wanted a tow behind garden cart for the last several months and was SOL. On Monday I checked and there were like 6-8 options.

Haven't had problems finding stuff at local Kroger's other than hand sanitizers (which I've found in abundance at CVS).

My wife has told me to stop buying toilet paper. We are definitely stocked up for the in-progress or forthcoming second wave!

Anyone else seeing this where they are at?

FYI this doesn't seem to be the case in my area. The only difference I've noticed is more professional shoppers as the fallout from reduced unemployment continues.

Seeing random weird stuff missing from Kroger and other stores in our area. For instance, slow cooker pulled pork seasoning packets. Haven't seen one in over a month. Check every time we go to a grocery store. Coke Zero and all of their flavors have been missing for months. Windex - can't find it anywhere. Things like that.

I'm not sure what this data tells. Would have been nice if there were % also. With Influenza and pneumonia listed as #1, I guess that's why there is a push to get people to get flu shots this year.

The CDC listed the following as the top conditions contributing to deaths involving coronavirus disease:

Influenza and pneumonia
Respiratory failure
Hypertensive disease
Diabetes
Vascular and unspecified dementia
Cardiac Arrest
Heart failure
Renal failure
Intentional and unintentional injury, poisoning and other adverse events
Other medical conditions
Table 3 shows the types of health conditions and contributing causes mentioned in conjunction with deaths involving coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19). For 6% of the deaths, COVID-19 was the only cause mentioned. For deaths with conditions or causes in addition to COVID-19, on average, there were 2.6 additional conditions or causes per death.
The table
https://fox8.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/12/2020/08/Table-3.png?resize=768,1347

Looks like India is in a world of hurt. There's likely more and its under reported (just like other countries). Wonder what the "excess deaths" are as compared to 2019 equivalent months.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-india-53969118
The nation, the world's third-most infected, on Sunday reported 78,761 new cases in 24 hours, passing the number posted in the US on 17 July.

The rise comes as the government continues to lift restrictions to try to boost an economy that lost millions of jobs when the virus hit in March.
:
:
Cardiology doctor, Manoj Kumar, told Reuters: "It is the largest one-day surge in cases worldwide and the reason behind this - because the pandemic is spreading in the rural areas."

In the initial stages of Covid-19, India appeared to be doing fairly well, imposing a strict lockdown, but the virus then hit megacities like Mumbai and Delhi, before surging in smaller cities and rural areas.

Despite the increase, the government has pressed ahead with easing restrictions.

Gatherings of up to 100 people will be allowed at cultural, entertainment and sports events from next month, with face mask and social distancing measures.

Underground train networks will also start to reopen in big cities.

Article also talked about the potential influence on decision making. Regardless, I think its a good thing to do especially with the comment below about 150 test cases.

Wouldn't want to be in the first batch and will wait for 4-6 weeks I think to see if any negative reactions pop up.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/30/health/fda-covid-19-vaccine-eua/index.html
"Our emergency use authorisation is not the same as a full approval," he said. "The legal, medical and scientific standard for that is that the benefit outweighs the risk in a public health emergency."
Two Covid-19 vaccines are currently in Phase 3 trials in the United States -- those made by Moderna and Pfizer/BioNTech -- and two more are expected to begin Phase 3 trials by mid-September. Vaccine makers are seeking to enroll at least 30,000 volunteers so they can tell whether the vaccine is really safe and protects people from infection.

Both already in advanced-stage trials in the United States have enrolled more than half the number of participants needed, US health officials said during a call with reporters on Friday about Operation Warp Speed.

During the call, the health officials said there could be enough data even before 30,000 people are enrolled in a trial, but Operation Warp Speed officials aren't able to see the data yet.

"There is a thing called a Data Safety Monitoring Board, an independent body that is assigned to each clinical trial," Paul Mango, deputy chief of staff for policy at the US Department of Health Human Services, said during the briefing.

"We have no insight into the data until the DSMB says we can look at it. They can come back and say, 'This is not a good vaccine.' They could come back before we even have 30,000 folks enrolled and say 'We have enough. This looks great.' "

Adverse reactions to the vaccine could also trigger the DSMB to stop the trial.

"What we are really looking for is cases -- the number of positive cases from both the placebo and the vaccine group," Mango said.

"Once we get to 150 or so, statistically that is significant regardless of how many enrollees we have in the trial," he added.

"That may be surprising to some, but really the number of events that have to occur ... is relatively small," US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention Director Dr. Robert Redfield added during the call.

Seeing random weird stuff missing from Kroger and other stores in our area. For instance, slow cooker pulled pork seasoning packets. Haven't seen one in over a month. Check every time we go to a grocery store. Coke Zero and all of their flavors have been missing for months. Windex - can't find it anywhere. Things like that.

Pepsi Zero has been missing around here but no issues on Coke Zero. My theory on that is that your guy that delivers either Coke or Pepsi delivers either a tiny bit of Zero or none at all and absolutely fills the shelves with the top couple of sellers. I don't know that it's a real shortage but a delivery choice based on what your store sells. If you complain to the store, you might have a shot at getting it fixed.

Well there are signs all over the shelves about Coke shortages, and it's not just Kroger. Meijer/Target haven't had any either.

In the last 2 weeks, a bit more Zero is showing up along with Zero Cherry Vanilla. Still no Zero Cherry, Orange Vanilla or Fresca. And very little diet Dr. Pepper, no creme soda of any kind.

OK, well that's weird then.

I think the same is happening with Pepsi Zero but I don't drink Pepsi so I haven't paid much attention.

We actually prefer Pepsi Zero to Coke Zero, but would prefer Coke to Pepsi if I drank full sugar soft drinks. I have full sugar Coke maybe 4 times a year or something like that.

I appreciate the well wishes from everyone. Thanks a ton you guys.

My in-laws went home yesterday. FIL says everything changed about an hour after he started getting the blood therapy. He felt 100 times better.

I don't know if this sort of thing works for everyone, but it is refreshing to hear that they have some therapies that help with this thing.

Great news!

My in-laws went home yesterday. FIL says everything changed about an hour after he started getting the blood therapy. He felt 100 times better.

I don't know if this sort of thing works for everyone, but it is refreshing to hear that they have some therapies that help with this thing.

One of the possible silver linings to this horrible horrible disease is that we are learning a lot about therapies and vaccines and the like.

It would be great if, after COVID-19 is under control, we end up being able to treat and prevent future diseases better than we would otherwise because of the crash course we had to take due to COVID-19.

Yay Spleen!, great news about the therapy helping

Wonder what the "excess deaths" are as compared to 2019 equivalent months.

Globally we aren't at the point of tracking that effectively. Based on what's happened in other large cities around the world though, by year's end excess mortality will likely be in the low tens of millions.

Excess deaths are at 214,000 this year which is sort of right in line with the data. Especially when you figure we missed a bunch early on due to testing.

Well there are signs all over the shelves about Coke shortages, and it's not just Kroger. Meijer/Target haven't had any either.

In the last 2 weeks, a bit more Zero is showing up along with Zero Cherry Vanilla. Still no Zero Cherry, Orange Vanilla or Fresca. And very little diet Dr. Pepper, no creme soda of any kind.

I can't say anything that specifically other than this seems to be regional to a degree - different areas have different relative levels of demand and so forth. Dr. Pepper for example has been fine where I am, but some of the Zero products have been gone for extended stretches. Fresca waved bye for a while, but it is now sometimes back.

Paper towel has replaced the original outage of toilet paper for reasons I can't decipher.

Excess deaths are at 214,000 this year which is sort of right in line with the data. Especially when you figure we missed a bunch early on due to testing.

Do you have a link for this. Want to send to a friend who is trending towards the hoax camp. He plays drums in one of the biggest cover bands in the east coast so his livelihood has really taken a hit basically having no gigs over the summer, so I get his frustrations. Would like some data to show him.

I can't say anything that specifically other than this seems to be regional to a degree - different areas have different relative levels of demand and so forth. Dr. Pepper for example has been fine where I am, but some of the Zero products have been gone for extended stretches. Fresca waved bye for a while, but it is now sometimes back.

Paper towel has replaced the original outage of toilet paper for reasons I can't decipher.

I still haven't seen an Lysol/Clorox wipes on the shelves since like April, so I've been using bleach spray and paper towels for kitchen disinfectant. I can't imagine I'm the only one...so that maybe explains the paper towel shortage.

I still haven't seen an Lysol/Clorox wipes on the shelves since like April, so I've been using bleach spray and paper towels for kitchen disinfectant. I can't imagine I'm the only one...so that maybe explains the paper towel shortage.

And find it anywhere and I really want to have some to send to school.

And find it anywhere and I really want to have some to send to school.

I still owe my 4th grader's teacher the 3 containers of wipes I was supposed to send on the first day of school.

I still haven't seen an Lysol/Clorox wipes on the shelves since like April, so I've been using bleach spray and paper towels for kitchen disinfectant. I can't imagine I'm the only one...so that maybe explains the paper towel shortage.

It'll occasionally show up for ship to home on the Kroger app. But, it's pretty darn rare.

SI

My wife was just complaining that she can't find Lysol wipes, bathroom scrubber, or Windex. We checked 4 stores this weekend, nothing. Wipes was a biggie early on but things seem to be getting worse, not better.

I can't say anything that specifically other than this seems to be regional to a degree - different areas have different relative levels of demand and so forth. Dr. Pepper for example has been fine where I am, but some of the Zero products have been gone for extended stretches. Fresca waved bye for a while, but it is now sometimes back.

Paper towel has replaced the original outage of toilet paper for reasons I can't decipher.

No problems with any Coke & Pepsi products in Atlanta suburbia (no surprise I guess), don't look for Fresca so can't say.

Plenty of Charmin and Bounty paper products also.

I appreciate the well wishes from everyone. Thanks a ton you guys.

My in-laws went home yesterday. FIL says everything changed about an hour after he started getting the blood therapy. He felt 100 times better.

I don't know if this sort of thing works for everyone, but it is refreshing to hear that they have some therapies that help with this thing.

Glad he is trending upward.

If you don't mind telling us, what is the "blood therapy"?

Glad he is trending upward.

If you don't mind telling us, what is the "blood therapy"?

They gave my MIL 2 pints of blood with COVID anti-bodies and my FIL 3 pints.

On the wipes, there was a thing from Lysol or Clorox saying they didn't expect to be stocked back to normal levels until at least early next year. That one is pretty consistent I think. Isopropyl alcohol is another, for similar reasons.

Happy for your in-laws spleen. Glad things turned around.

News on the rapid test. Not perfect or as accurate as the other test but still pretty good.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/heres-what-to-know-about-abbotts-15-minute-covid-19-test-11598982464?mod=home-page
On Aug. 26, the Food and Drug Administration granted an Emergency Use Authorization to a new rapid antigen test for COVID-19 called the BinaxNOW test.

I study public health policy to combat infectious disease epidemics. Testing is one of the most powerful tools available to fight the spread of COVID-19. The new test is inexpensive, rapid and easy to use. It will massively scale up access to testing, but hurdles remain in achieving widespread, frequent COVID-19 testing.

What type of test is BinaxNOW?

The credit-card-sized test is an antigen test that detects a specific viral protein from SARS-CoV-2. It costs $5 and doesn’t require a lab or a machine for processing.

Performing the test is simple. A health-care worker or technician would use a swab to collect a sample from less than 1 inch inside the nostril. They would then combine the sample with a few drops of chemicals inside the test card. Within 15 minutes, the test strip would show a positive or negative result. The test is also paired with an app that produces a digital code that can be scanned to show proof of a recent negative COVID-19 test.
:
:
Abbott, the health technology company ABT, -3.07% that produces the test, reports that when patients had symptoms the test was in agreement with PCR testing for 97.1% for COVID-19 positive cases and 98.5% for COVID-19 negative cases. This is high enough for diagnostic settings where accuracy is critical.

However, the true accuracy could be lower because the performance testing group was only 102 people and the accuracy hasn’t been validated by the FDA as part of the full approval process. There will inevitably be some false negatives and false positives with the BinaxNOW test since accuracy isn’t 100%, but the FDA will monitor the data to make sure the test meets the reported accuracy.

I'd love the idea, but, c'mon:

However, the true accuracy could be lower because the performance testing group was only 102 people and the accuracy hasn’t been validated by the FDA as part of the full approval process. There will inevitably be some false negatives and false positives with the BinaxNOW test since accuracy isn’t 100%, but the FDA will monitor the data to make sure the test meets the reported accuracy.

A test group of 102?!? Like, that's one large hospital's worth of COVID patients. Could we try something a little more rigorous before running it to market?

I will be shocked(!) when it turns out it's more like 85% accurate, which is kindof a big damn deal.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/5n2fV5Vg58Z3Bceowj/giphy.gif

SI

I'd love the idea, but, c'mon:


A test group of 102?!? Like, that's one large hospital's worth of COVID patients. Could we try something a little more rigorous before running it to market?

I will be shocked(!) when it turns out it's more like 85% accurate, which is kindof a big damn deal.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/5n2fV5Vg58Z3Bceowj/giphy.gif

SI

You're a glass half empty guy aren't you :)

Com'on, this is a big-enough-of-a-win to celebrate some even if it is only 85% accurate.

I'm glad we're working towards a fast test. And, yes, 85% would be something. But, c'mon, a 102 person test and not validated by the FDA (which is rushing to fast track stuff as is)? That's awful science. Wait 2 more weeks and test hundreds more. It's not as if we're lacking for test subjects when we have tens of thousands getting infected daily.

Scientifically, it's maybe a step above, say, using a 42 patient study with disparate cohorts to prove a particular drug works to cure an ailment (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920300996).

SI

The U.S. is pulling out of a multi-nation effort to produce a vaccine and going alone.

That's because Trump is forcing through a vaccine and wants to take total credit for it before the election.

The Rock has announced he's gotten the covid.

Here's wishing he drops the People's Elbow on it.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/PennState?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#PennState</a>'s director of athletic medicine, Wayne Sebastianelli, says that cardiac MRI scans revealed that roughly 30-35 percent of Big Ten athletes who tested positive for COVID-19 appeared to have myocarditis. <a href="https://t.co/md4p1IoaLh">https://t.co/md4p1IoaLh</a></p>&mdash; Parth Upadhyaya (@pupadhyaya_) <a href="https://twitter.com/pupadhyaya_/status/1301544819731451904?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 3, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That....doesn’t sound good.

Similar story recently about a top French rugby team, but lung damage

Coronavirus: Stade Francais rugby players develop lung lesions after contracting COVID-19 | World News | Sky News (https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-stade-francais-rugby-players-develop-lung-lesions-after-contracting-covid-19-12052789)

Edit: although after a bit more reading up on what lung lesions are, and how they are caused / treated, this one falls into the overly scary headline. Benign lung lesions often form after pneumonia, and are easily treated with antibiotics

Fuck this fucking virus. Heart damage. Lung damage.

What the fucking fuck.

Stop being such a stupid fucking virus.

I'm sure a certain segment of the population will be like "Life's full of risk and uncertainty. Play on!"

I'm sure a certain segment of the population will be like "Life's full of risk and uncertainty. Play on!"

There's always been a decent number of people willing to risk your life for their own gain

SI

Or even just for their entertainment.

That....doesn’t sound good.

I'm curious if that rate is any different for non-athletes? I'm guessing they didn't get the expensive MRI test.

So the sexy new COVID theory (I mean a science-based one, not some bullshit peddling one like the 6% thing) is around something called bradykinin (which, honestly, I'd never heard of before yesterday):

Is a Bradykinin Storm Brewing in COVID-19? | The Scientist Magazine® (https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/is-a-bradykinin-storm-brewing-in-covid-19--67876)
https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

SI

I'm curious if that rate is any different for non-athletes? I'm guessing they didn't get the expensive MRI test.Yeah, that was the crux of what spurred my comment. We’re not far enough into this thing to have even an intuitive feel for long-term impacts, and the great majority of people who are infected and recover aren’t getting an MRI.

Kirk Cousins says hello.

Yeah, that was the crux of what spurred my comment. We’re not far enough into this thing to have even an intuitive feel for long-term impacts, and the great majority of people who are infected and recover aren’t getting an MRI.

Hopefully, these are short term problems that will heal, but we just don't know. Will these heart problems linger for athletes? Will it shorten careers? Does it raise the risk of early death? Maybe we don't need to assume the worst case, but I think we need to take precautions because we don't know what it is coming for people five, ten, thirty years down the line.

I'm sure a certain segment of the population will be like "Life's full of risk and uncertainty. Play on!"

don't choose to live in fear, man!

don't choose to live in fear, man!

I usually have the urge to punch those folks in the face.

I usually have the urge to punch those folks in the face.

them and the "it's just the flu, people!" people are funny. I know the flu is theoretically deadly but it literally never enters my calculations. This isn't super deadly or anything but all those unknown side effects are enough to give me pause.

We spent all weekend with our friends who are covid deniers and “it’s just the flu” - plus they know a nurse and they don’t have any covid patients so it’s a big hoax.

My answer to that was basically sure it’s the flu - if we didn’t have 100 years of knowledge on how to treat and care for at risk people who have the flu or any vaccine for said people. I mean let’s not forget that the worse pandemic in modern history was “just” the flu.

So was Captain Trips.

Let alone that as far as I can tell anybody who thinks "it's just the flu" isn't even accounting for the concept of ANOTHER ongoing flu when they say that.....they think that saying "covid is just the flu" somehow means (results-of-covid)+(results-of-flu)=(results-of-flu).

So was Captain Trips.

Summer colds are the worst

SI

Local news station posted an article about a Canadian health expert recommending people wear masks during sex, and someone commented: "Does a ball gag count"? Ha!

https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/university_covid_model.png

Interesting article on the covid impact on real estate in cities. Basically people are moving out of bigger cities like NY, Boston, LA, SF and going to cheaper places like suburbia or even lower cost of living states like FL.

I love to visit NYC but can't imagine living there long-term in an apartment that is 1/3 the size of my house in Atlanta at 2-3 times the cost.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/31/success/leaving-the-city-for-suburbs/index.html
Signed contracts for sales of condos and co-ops in Manhattan, for example, plunged nearly 60% in July, while contracts for single-family homes in areas outside of New York City skyrocketed, according to a recent report from brokerage firm Douglas Elliman and Miller Samuel.

Similar shifts are playing out in suburban areas around other major cities. Norfolk County, outside of Boston, saw a 38% increase in new contracts for single-family homes in July over last year, according to Compass. Collin County, Texas, outside of Dallas, saw a 58% increase. San Bernardino County, outside of Los Angeles, saw a 62% jump and Marin County, outside of San Francisco, saw a 77% increase over last year.

I have mentioned before, but the Real Estate market here is insane. Houses don't last two days on the market.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

OTOH, I'm starting to see some early signs of a housing market crash in Las Vegas. It might just be people way overvaluing their properties initially, but I'm seeing a lot of places get price drops lately.

We live on the Jersey Shore, about an hour south of NYC. Train station to NYC 5 minutes away. Bus station 5 minutes away. Beach 5 minutes away. Real estate here is flying. Friend listed her deceased fathers house and got an offer for full asking price, 560K, the same day they listed it.

I'm curious if that rate is any different for non-athletes? I'm guessing they didn't get the expensive MRI test.

How Covid-19 Coronavirus May Cause Heart Damage, Here Are Two New Studies (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/29/study-how-covid-19-coronavirus-may-affect-your-heart/amp/)


They followed up with 100 patients in the State of Hesse (which rhymes with “bench press”) who had previously tested positive for the SARS-CoV2.

For the study, these patients underwent MRI (magnetic resonance imaging) of their hearts and blood testing to check for evidence of heart damage. This didn’t happen right after their Covid-19 coronavirus diagnoses but a median of 71 days afterwards, which is over two months after the initial diagnosis. These also were people who were still fairly young at heart, literally, with the median age being 49 years old. Many of them hadn’t gotten super-sick either, as two-thirds of the patients hadn’t even been hospitalized.

Nevertheless, the MRIs did show that 78% of the patients had some type of abnormality in their hearts. These ranged from signs of inflammation to enlarged left ventricles to decreased ability of their hearts to pump blood to the rest of the body. Many of these findings were consistent with patients having myocarditis or pericarditis.

And you know what ? Most of them will be fine for years. But any sort of heart damage is not sth i would want to start carrying around any more/earlier than necessary. Kinda need that thing humming smoothly, as well as them lungs, for quality of life i'd say.

How Covid-19 Coronavirus May Cause Heart Damage, Here Are Two New Studies (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/29/study-how-covid-19-coronavirus-may-affect-your-heart/amp/)




And you know what ? Most of them will be fine for years. But any sort of heart damage is not sth i would want to start carrying around any more/earlier than necessary. Kinda need that thing humming smoothly, as well as them lungs, for quality of life i'd say.

I get that heart damage is a side effect. While I haven't done extensive research, I haven't seen anything that tells me being a member of a college football team increases the risk of either contracting COVID-19 or having more significant impacts from it. Therefore, having on campus college or not is the question but if you decide to have students on campus then you should also allow football. I don't think having students on campus is the right thing, but I think you should make a consistent decision between your general student population and your athletes.

I have mentioned before, but the Real Estate market here is insane. Houses don't last two days on the market.

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I assume you are referring to Covington which is midway between Atlanta and Augusta? I wouldn't think there is substantial house price or COL difference between Atlanta and Covington.

What do you attribute the hot market to? Is it people moving away from Atlanta or not a lot of houses for sale because people are sitting tight?

I went on zillow to check my house valuation. It hasn't budged much if at all and there hasn't been a lot of recent sales (red dot markers). I am a little surprised because during the GR there were noticeably many more zillow red dots in the neighborhood.

Just one data point that indicates that this melt down isn't quite as bad as the GR (or at least, not yet) to homeowners. I am guessing that commercial real estate (as in office space) will be substantially hurt as companies renegotiates to reduce their sq ft in 2-3-4 years.

I get that heart damage is a side effect. While I haven't done extensive research, I haven't seen anything that tells me being a member of a college football team increases the risk of either contracting COVID-19 or having more significant impacts from it. Therefore, having on campus college or not is the question but if you decide to have students on campus then you should also allow football. I don't think having students on campus is the right thing, but I think you should make a consistent decision between your general student population and your athletes.

Football observes far fewer of the masking/distancing rules than is expected from the general student population. Many "normal" college activities are not taking place this semester. For example, I'm not able to produce a play due to safety concerns for the actors/crew.

How Covid-19 Coronavirus May Cause Heart Damage, Here Are Two New Studies (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/29/study-how-covid-19-coronavirus-may-affect-your-heart/amp/)




And you know what ? Most of them will be fine for years. But any sort of heart damage is not sth i would want to start carrying around any more/earlier than necessary. Kinda need that thing humming smoothly, as well as them lungs, for quality of life i'd say.

How does Hesse rhyme with "bench press"?

I assume you are referring to Covington which is midway between Atlanta and Augusta? I wouldn't think there is substantial house price or COL difference between Atlanta and Covington.

What do you attribute the hot market to? Is it people moving away from Atlanta or not a lot of houses for sale because people are sitting tight?

I went on zillow to check my house valuation. It hasn't budged much if at all and there hasn't been a lot of recent sales (red dot markers). I am a little surprised because during the GR there were noticeably many more zillow red dots in the neighborhood.

Just one data point that indicates that this melt down isn't quite as bad as the GR (or at least, not yet) to homeowners. I am guessing that commercial real estate (as in office space) will be substantially hurt as companies renegotiates to reduce their sq ft in 2-3-4 years.
I am dealing mostly with Conyers-Covington-Loganville-Monroe-Madison. All of those areas seem to be selling like hot-cakes. I am mostly seeing people moving out of Atlanta, or people that may have went north of Atlanta last year, but choose to move here instead because of the house pricing being lower. All the people that are selling (almost every single one) are looking to move further out (Madison mostly). They all seem to want the same thing, a few acres to build a house on that is not in a subdivision. I think only 10-20% already have a place in mind to move to when they sell. They have no idea that trying to buy less than 100 acres or more than a half acre lot in a subdivision is almost impossible out there.

How Covid-19 Coronavirus May Cause Heart Damage, Here Are Two New Studies (https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2020/07/29/study-how-covid-19-coronavirus-may-affect-your-heart/amp/)




And you know what ? Most of them will be fine for years. But any sort of heart damage is not sth i would want to start carrying around any more/earlier than necessary. Kinda need that thing humming smoothly, as well as them lungs, for quality of life i'd say.

I'm guessing that most if not all, of these people had not had MRIs before, so we don't know for sure that these conditions were not present beforehand too, especially those that will have no effects for years to come (and therefore if they were present pre-Covid would not have given any reason for the people to got to the doctors or have an MRI)

The only way we know for sure is to do MRIs for people who had already had MRIs before they were sick with Covid

They have no idea that trying to buy less than 100 acres or more than a half acre lot in a subdivision is almost impossible out there.

Everyone who has land wants to sell it to a developer for the $$$. (Or in the case of 100+ acres, keep it farmland, I suppose.)

My brother lives in Bloomfield, a suburb of NYC right next to where we grew up (Montclair). He listed his house at 370k last week, probably a little under market. Went away for a few days to the shore and had 58 showings in the first 4 days and 12 offers. Ended up getting a contract at $430k with the buyer saying they would ignore the first 3k of inspection issues (if any) and would cover an appraisal difference up to $415k.

I just don't get it - where are the wages coming through to justify this because real wages are not moving like the real estate market is

SI

There are a ton of people with jobs that are leaving NYC. They are tired of paying big rent and can work from anywhere.

I just don't get it - where are the wages coming through to justify this because real wages are not moving like the real estate market is

SI

I think the scenario is people currently paying rent/mortgage in a big, expensive city moving to cheaper suburbia because they are now allowed to work remote. Wouldn't be surprised if they save money by moving to suburbia.

There are a ton of people with jobs that are leaving NYC. They are tired of paying big rent and can work from anywhere.

Which makes sense and I agree, but the weird thing is we're seeing houses moving like hotcakes in LA as well (2 of our friends have moved and got well above offering and part cash).

The 2 scenarios I can think of that make a little sense are either prospectors betting on a big rebound in 2021 or people who are moving out of expensive neighborhoods closer to LA to the Valley (because of remote work) but either way, we've seen the same and I have no idea who is buying 2 million dollar houses above asking prices in the middle of a pandemic, and it doesn't line up with the stats that show people leaving LA and California in droves.

I'll assume there was plenty of orientation about the rules and warning about dismissal if violated. Even so, if this was their first violation, I would be inclined to give them a no-third chance warning and have them quarantine themselves.

Don't agree about the keeping the $36,500 tuition if kicking them out though. Glad to see schools taking this seriously. I'll have to ask my kids about how serious their colleges really are.

bars (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/05/world/coronavirus-covid.html)
Northeastern ousts 11 students for violating safety protocols, and keeps their $36,500 tuition.

In one of the harshest punishments imposed to date against students for violations of coronavirus safety protocols, Northeastern University dismissed 11 first-year students this week and declined to refund their $36,500 tuition after they were discovered crowded into a room at a Boston hotel serving as a temporary dormitory.

About 800 students are staying in two-person rooms at the hotel, the Westin, which is less than a mile from Northeastern’s Boston campus.

Two university staff members making rounds on Wednesday evening discovered the gathering, which violated university rules against any “guests, visitors or additional occupants,” the university said in a news release.

In addition, the students were not wearing masks or practicing social distancing, in defiance of university requirements, a university spokeswoman, Renata Nyul, said.

Only schools like Northwestern can get away with that. Less prestigious schools can't get away with stuff like that.

My old company learned the remote working lesson from Superstorm Sandy. They had a ton of office space in Manhattan but saw how effectively most people worked from home for several months when they had to, and during the next year took steps to get out of leases and use the remaining office space for "hotelling" people in and out of the office when needed.

Fast forward several years, and I talked to a guy who is based just outside NYC who is interviewing for my old job. He said the biggest appeal of it is that they will let him work anywhere he wants, so he and his wife are looking at it as an opportunity to pick any place in the country to move if he takes the job, and they have no interest in staying in or around NYC.

My cousin is one of those who moved out of nyc. Her long time boyfriend is high risk and they were uncomfortable with the impact of being in the city.


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I think the scenario is people currently paying rent/mortgage in a big, expensive city moving to cheaper suburbia because they are now allowed to work remote. Wouldn't be surprised if they save money by moving to suburbia.

Yep. Once my townhouse sells in Vegas (which has been no end of drama and expense and fuck the lazy shitstain asbestos tester when I bought the place - costing me almost $5,800 which pretty much wipes out all the profit I'll get from selling) and I buy the place here in town, my monthly housing costs go from $1,000 a month to like $350 a month. So that's $650 a month in my back pocket. Plus with the two jobs (teaching and copywriting), I'm making more money than I ever have before.

I'm guessing that most if not all, of these people had not had MRIs before, so we don't know for sure that these conditions were not present beforehand too, especially those that will have no effects for years to come (and therefore if they were present pre-Covid would not have given any reason for the people to got to the doctors or have an MRI)

The only way we know for sure is to do MRIs for people who had already had MRIs before they were sick with Covid

Radiology technicians (i know a few) do plenty of MRIs for checkups every week. That percentage is insanely unusual in any group and would border on the most coincidental coincidence in history. You don't even get close to that when you suspect sth to be wrong and test that amount of people.

And on top of that the study authors are not laypeople just looking at numbers/checking yes/no boxes etc either, you can judge very well how recent inflammation and other damage etc is from the images. You can say with high certainty the damage ocurred in the same timeframe they had Covid.

Plus with the two jobs (teaching and copywriting), I'm making more money than I ever have before.

How is the copywriting business? Could you ever see that as bringing in the majority of your income one day?

I've read copywriting was something globe-trotting "digital nomads" can do (e.g. me in retirement).

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">We estimate that over 250,000 of the reported cases between August 2 and September 2 are due to the Sturgis Rally. Roughly 19 percent of the national cases during this timeframe. <a href="https://t.co/6tCCV6aXYf">https://t.co/6tCCV6aXYf</a></p>&mdash; Andrew Friedson (@FriedsonAndrew) <a href="https://twitter.com/FriedsonAndrew/status/1302591878957862912?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 6, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That's incredible.

Effing Smashmouth!

That seems a really high estimate

SI

Kristi Noem is going to be a problem. Something like letting Sturgis go on should tank any career she'd have in politics but I figure it will make her an early front runner in 2024.

Kristi Noem is going to be a problem. Something like letting Sturgis go on should tank any career she'd have in politics but I figure it will make her an early front runner in 2024.

This showed up in my email yesterday from my Dad. I simply LOLed back at him and then posted a link to stats that showed that the 11x less stat that's there was total bullshit. He didn't reply, but many of his like minded military buddies sure liked it.

https://apis.mail.yahoo.com/ws/v3/mailboxes/@.id==VjN-rlmBVptNSfbk7KgmIy23-KCeVcYrK7QdZZihgnw2NwtUwtB1EfjrbpBRdqTxY5GC6F676llwJijNHGM9Rx73ng/messages/@.id==APxFQdNvw5LDX1adgwpUiIm3F3A/content/parts/@.id==2/thumbnail?appId=YMailNorrin

Hopefully this isn't a big problem with the vaccine, but it's a good illustration of why you need complete testing for a drug you plan to give to tens of millions of people.
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: AstraZeneca's <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Covid19?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Covid19</a> vaccine trials have been paused as the company investigates a serious adverse event the occurred in the UK. Not clear if the unexplained illness is linked to the vaccine, or what it was. <a href="https://t.co/wGqvvXIBTD">https://t.co/wGqvvXIBTD</a></p>&mdash; Helen Branswell (@HelenBranswell) <a href="https://twitter.com/HelenBranswell/status/1303443741764661253?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 8, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

That Sturgis number seems high but didn't they find most of the cases in Italy could be traced back to a soccer match?

Some pretty good news I guess. Probably premature with the "near perfect" but I understand having to keep momentum for your company and play to the market.

There's a fair (or more than negligible) change that real & legit good/great vaccine news will come out before Nov.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/08/health/pfizer-biontech-vaccine-october-intl-grm/index.html
Pfizer and BioNTech are confident they can have a vaccine against the novel coronavirus ready for regulatory approval by the middle of October or early November, BioNTech CEO and co-founder Ugur Sahin told CNN Tuesday.

"It has an excellent profile and I consider this vaccine ... near perfect, and which has a near perfect profile," Sahin said in an exclusive interview with CNN.

US drug giant Pfizer and German firm BioNTech say they plan to provide 100 million doses of their vaccine candidate, BNT162, by the end of the year, and up to 1.3 billion doses in 2021.

In July, the US Department of Health and Human Services and Department of Defense announced a $1.95 billion agreement with Pfizer to produce 100 million doses of a Covid-19 vaccine. The deal also allows the US government to acquire an additional 500 million doses.

Sahin told CNN he believes that approval for emergency use will be granted quickly by regulatory authorities, adding that the company's "understanding of the mode of action, in combination with the safety data coming in from the running trial" meant that they have "a lot of confidence" in it.

I have mentioned before, but the Real Estate market here is insane. Houses don't last two days on the market.

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Good news for you!

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/09/mortgage-demand-from-homebuyers-surges-40percent-from-a-year-ago.html
The end of August usually marks the beginning of the slow season for housing, but as with everything else, this year’s trends are like no other.

Mortgage applications to purchase a home rose 3% last week from the previous week and were a stunning 40% higher from a year ago, according to the Mortgage Bankers Association’s seasonally adjusted index. The year-on-year comparison is usually in single digits. While it may have been skewed slightly by the Labor Day holiday,which fell earlier last year, purchase demand is still running significantly higher than a year ago.

Buyers are still getting significant incentive from low mortgage rates. The average contract interest rate for 30-year fixed-rate mortgages with conforming loan balances up to $510,400 fell to 3.07% from 3.08%, with points remaining unchanged at 0.36, including the origination fee, for loans with a 20% down payment.

For the 15-year fixed, the rate declined to a record low of 2.62% on conventional loans.

“There continues to be resiliency in the purchase market,” said Joel Kan, an MBA economist. “The average loan size continued to increase, hitting a survey high at $368,600. Highlighting the strong overall demand for buying a home, conventional, VA and FHA purchase applications all increased last week.”

https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

https://elemental.medium.com/a-supercomputer-analyzed-covid-19-and-an-interesting-new-theory-has-emerged-31cb8eba9d63

Thanks for the read.

Covid-19 is like a burglar who slips in your unlocked second-floor window and starts to ransack your house. Once inside, though, they don’t just take your stuff — they also throw open all your doors and windows so their accomplices can rush in and help pillage more efficiently.
:
:
The end result, the researchers say, is to release a bradykinin storm — a massive, runaway buildup of bradykinin in the body. According to the bradykinin hypothesis, it’s this storm that is ultimately responsible for many of Covid-19’s deadly effects.

Theory that vitamin D may help.

As Jacobson and team point out, several drugs target aspects of the RAS and are already FDA approved to treat other conditions. They could arguably be applied to treating Covid-19 as well. Several, like danazol, stanozolol, and ecallantide, reduce bradykinin production and could potentially stop a deadly bradykinin storm. Others, like icatibant, reduce bradykinin signaling and could blunt its effects once it’s already in the body.

Interestingly, Jacobson’s team also suggests vitamin D as a potentially useful Covid-19 drug. The vitamin is involved in the RAS system and could prove helpful by reducing levels of another compound, known as REN. Again, this could stop potentially deadly bradykinin storms from forming. The researchers note that vitamin D has already been shown to help those with Covid-19. The vitamin is readily available over the counter, and around 20% of the population is deficient. If indeed the vitamin proves effective at reducing the severity of bradykinin storms, it could be an easy, relatively safe way to reduce the severity of the virus.

Other compounds could treat symptoms associated with bradykinin storms. Hymecromone, for example, could reduce hyaluronic acid levels, potentially stopping deadly hydrogels from forming in the lungs. And timbetasin could mimic the mechanism that the researchers believe protects women from more severe Covid-19 infections. All of these potential treatments are speculative, of course, and would need to be studied in a rigorous, controlled environment before their effectiveness could be determined and they could be used more broadly.

And here's how to get vitamin D.

How to Get Vitamin D: 7 Effective Ways (https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-to-increase-vitamin-d#The-bottom-line)
1. Spend time in sunlight
2. Fatty fish and seafood
3. Mushrooms
4. Egg yolks
5. Fortified foods (cow, soy, almond, hemp milk; orange juice; tofu)
6. Supplements (vitamins). My multi-vitamin has 50% of recommended daily dose

Dude, Sportsdigs had this last week :p

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778) (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=3299490&postcount=6314)

SI

Dude, Sportsdigs had this last week :p

Front Office Football Central - View Single Post - COVID-19 - Wuhan Coronavirus (a non-political thread, see pg. 36 #1778) (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc/showpost.php?p=3299490&postcount=6314)

SI

Sorry.

I never knew Andre 3000 was talking about coronavirus protection.

Sorry.

I was more busting Lathum's chops for the repost :p

SI

Stanozolol

Should we expect a Covid treatment book from Canseco?

Email from my kid's school.

1 kid was at school displaying "Covid-Like Symptoms" (which is like, everything under the sun). Tested negative. However, they are still sending that kid's entire class home to quarantine for 2 weeks.

In short ... an entire classroom is sent home for 2 weeks because a kid had a cold. Or allergies.

Shit like that makes me crazy. You can’t go back to in person school then push the panic button when someone inevitably gets sick.

Shit like that makes me crazy. You can’t go back to in person school then push the panic button when someone inevitably gets sick.It’s like the whole thing is disingenuous. I’ve been more attuned to this with regard to higher eds that brought thousands of 18-22-year-olds on campus and then shut down over the inevitable asymptomatic positive tests, but it’s a similar dynamic here. If you were gonna shut down over sniffles, why’d you even bother opening in the first place???

Exactly.

It gets better here, too. Colorado has had major wildfire issues lately. Air quality has been shit. PLUS, we just went from 90 degrees on Sunday, to 30 degrees and snow. And it'll be back to 80 by Friday. Think that's not going to trigger allergies and colds? They'll be lucky to have a single class still in person if they're gonna keep this nonsense up.

It’s like the whole thing is disingenuous. I’ve been more attuned to this with regard to higher eds that brought thousands of 18-22-year-olds on campus and then shut down over the inevitable asymptomatic positive tests, but it’s a similar dynamic here. If you were gonna shut down over sniffles, why’d you even bother opening in the first place???

From what I can tell - from a state that is largely keeping kids home - it's simply a political relief valve. Parents want their kids in school for a variety of reasons, and so in a bunch of places, school districts are going to give them what they want until there's justification to do what they should have done to begin with.

In sports, it's the equivalent of starting the senior because he's supposed to get the job and you don't want to hear it from the parents and letting him fail so you have clear-cut evidence that the freshman is better.

TBH a shortage of test subject monkeys never occurred to me.

COVID vaccine, treatment trials create monkey shortage for science (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2020/09/10/covid-vaccine-treatment-trials-create-monkey-shortage-science/5714115002/)
The race for a coronavirus vaccine to help end the pandemic has consumed the scientific community and created an escalating demand for an essential resource: monkeys.

Before drug companies call on human volunteers, monkeys are used in preclinical trials to test a vaccine’s safety and effectiveness. But with more than 100 vaccines in development around the world, there aren’t enough monkeys to go around.

“There is a shortage,” said Dr. Skip Bohm, associate director and chief veterinary medical officer of the Tulane National Primate Research Center.

Like other aspects of society, the pandemic has underscored an already existing problem. Nonhuman primate research centers have been strained in recent years because of restrictions on imported monkeys from countries like China and India, and a lack of funding to support domestic breeding.

“We’ve always been in a state where we were always very close to the level of production to meeting the demand for research, and that has been the status for several years,” Bohm said. “When the COVID pandemic came about, that just pressed us even further.”

I wondered what PETA's stance is with coronavirus testing of animals and found a statement.
As the coronavirus outbreak threatens to become a worldwide pandemic, laboratories are busy planning to infect animals in deadly pathogen tests—even though this antiquated 19th century approach has a history of delaying treatments, wasting funds, and causing more harm to human patients, who are now suffering from dangerous 21st century diseases. The public is fearful of this coronavirus, but let’s not fool ourselves into thinking that killing animals in laboratories will be the solution. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, and given that the pathogens that cause pandemics typically jump from farmed animals to humans, it’s time to stop breeding and eating billions of animals each year. Concerned people should go vegan, since filthy farms and markets crammed full of sick animals are breeding grounds for both viruses and superbugs.

From what I can tell - from a state that is largely keeping kids home - it's simply a political relief valve. Parents want their kids in school for a variety of reasons, and so in a bunch of places, school districts are going to give them what they want until there's justification to do what they should have done to begin with.

In sports, it's the equivalent of starting the senior because he's supposed to get the job and you don't want to hear it from the parents and letting him fail so you have clear-cut evidence that the freshman is better.

That's a good analogy.

TBH a shortage of test subject monkeys never occurred to me.


When I was very first employed I ran across a job that was for something like "Head of Maintenance at an Animal Research Facility" and reading a little further it became obvious that they were looking for someone to clean up the chimp testing facility every day & they did their best to fill the ad with lots of positive talk of the benefits and the 'beautiful facilities' but I can't think of a worse job "No thanks, I'll keep my soul."

When I was very first employed I ran across a job that was for something like "Head of Maintenance at an Animal Research Facility" and reading a little further it became obvious that they were looking for someone to clean up the chimp testing facility every day & they did their best to fill the ad with lots of positive talk of the benefits and the 'beautiful facilities' but I can't think of a worse job "No thanks, I'll keep my soul."

I want to believe test animals are treated as humanely as possible but my gut tells me it's maybe a couple levels better than a cow processing facility.

I want to believe test animals are treated as humanely as possible but my gut tells me it's maybe a couple levels better than a cow processing facility.

We tried to adopt a dog from the Beagle Freedom project - a group that adopts beagles out from testing facilities. Beagles are chosen for that role because they tend not to fight back no matter what testers do to them.

It's a very secretive process. The labs are willing to play ball and release some dogs to the group for adoption, but, for most of them, the group is not allowed to post the dogs online like a typical rescue might. They don't want anyone to know where the dogs come from exactly and what companies are involved. (This is mostly cosmetics and other household item testing done by large corporations). So you just put your name on a list and you might be contacted if the group is able to get dogs from a mystery lab in your area.

We tried to adopt a dog from the Beagle Freedom project - a group that adopts beagles out from testing facilities. Beagles are chosen for that role because they tend not to fight back no matter what testers do to them.

Hey, good for you. My opinion of you has gone up significantly! :)

It's a very secretive process. The labs are willing to play ball and release some dogs to the group for adoption, but, for most of them, the group is not allowed to post the dogs online like a typical rescue might. They don't want anyone to know where the dogs come from exactly and what companies are involved. (This is mostly cosmetics and other household item testing done by large corporations). So you just put your name on a list and you might be contacted if the group is able to get dogs from a mystery lab in your area.

You bring up a good point about cosmetics.

I know there is a lot of gray area. However, animal testing for coronavirus vaccine/therapeutics is a no brainer to me. Animal testing for cosmetics is unnecessary. I can't help but feel there is more animal testing than is actually needed because it's convenient or cost effective.

PSA: avoid eating inside a restaurant.

Haven't eaten inside a restaurant since forever now. We did contemplate eating outside at a Mellow Mushroom but decided against it. I do miss it.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/10/health/restaurant-dining-covid-19-cdc-study-wellness/index.html
Adults who tested positive for Covid-19 were approximately twice as likely to have reported dining at a restaurant in the 14 days before becoming ill than those who tested negative, according to a new study from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"In addition to dining at a restaurant, case-patients were more likely to report going to a bar/coffee shop, but only when the analysis was restricted to participants without close contact with persons with known COVID-19 before illness onset," the researchers wrote.
:
:
Adults who tested positive for Covid-19 were approximately twice as likely to have reported dining at a restaurant in the 14 days before becoming ill than those who tested negative, according to a new study from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"In addition to dining at a restaurant, case-patients were more likely to report going to a bar/coffee shop, but only when the analysis was restricted to participants without close contact with persons with known COVID-19 before illness onset," the researchers wrote.
As states reopen, the CDC's guidelines for restaurants and bars list dining options from the lowest to the highest risk on the agency's website:

Lowest risk: Food service limited to drive-through, delivery, takeout and curbside pickup.
More risk: On-site dining limited to outdoor seating. Seating capacity reduced to allow tables to be spaced at least 6 feet apart.
Even more risk: On-site dining with both indoor and outdoor seating. Seating capacity reduced to allow tables to be spaced at least 6 feet apart.
Highest risk: On-site dining with both indoor and outdoor seating. Seating capacity not reduced and tables not spaced at least 6 feet apart.

A group of students knew they had covid-19. They hosted a party over Labor Day anyway. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/a-group-of-students-knew-they-had-covid-19-they-hosted-a-party-over-labor-day-anyway/ar-BB18VP1o?li=BBnb7Kz)

https://gif-finder.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Facepalm.gif

I mean it's definitely student logic though... we all have Covid, so why can't we have a party together?

I can say there's a Pac12 baseball program that isn't making kids with clear COVID symptoms get tested, isn't doing tracing, and isn't having kids that do test positive notify their family, and quarantining is inconsistent based on who you are. One highly regarded freshman left last weekend and will likely transfer because of what's going on there.

I can say there's a Pac12 baseball program that isn't making kids with clear COVID symptoms get tested, isn't doing tracing, and isn't having kids that do test positive notify their family, and quarantining is inconsistent based on who you are. One highly regarded freshman left last weekend and will likely transfer because of what's going on there.

ASU?

ASU?

You got the last 2 letters correct.

You got the last 2 letters correct.

Cougin it! hahah

Haven't eaten inside a restaurant since March 7th, I think it was. Wasn't planning on it until next year at earliest.

If we’re still not sure about the possibility that people with antibodies can be re-infected, does that also call into question our ability to create an effective vaccine?

If we’re still not sure about the possibility that people with antibodies can be re-infected, does that also call into question our ability to create an effective vaccine?

It very much remains to be seen. But I think the consensus is that this will be more like the flu vaccine (yearly and quasi-effective) than, say, an MMR shot that you get one or twice and are done with. COVID-19 appears to mutate slower than the flu but still faster than many other viruses.

SI

What I have been reading is that we will, hopefully, be able to engineer a vaccine that produces better immunity than actual infection does.

And, hopefully, with yearly boosters, that supercharged immunity will be enough.

One of my friends has been trying to make the "Vid" a thing. We have to constantly tell him, there is already a shortened version of the name: "Rona".

Even before the shutdown and this became a big deal, whenever anyone in the office coughed or sneezed someone would say "You got da Rona!"

PSA: avoid eating inside a restaurant.

Why do you hate our essential workers? Do you have turpentine in your soul?!?

Even before the shutdown and this became a big deal, whenever anyone in the office coughed or sneezed someone would say "You got da Rona!"

Yeah. Why try to make something else a thing? Also when I hear Vid, I think of a YouTube video.

Why do you hate our essential workers? Do you have turpentine in your soul?!?

Does that help? Should we be doing that?!! ;)

The OSU athlete study is out. The 30-35% number is not accurate but out of 26 athletes scanned,

4 with myocarditis, all male, fortunately with preserved ejection fraction, 2 had a pericardial effusion
8 additional athletes with suggestive pattern of heart injury, without inflammation c/w myocarditis

Why do you hate our essential workers? Do you have turpentine in your soul?!?

Hey, don't shoot the messenger.

Just trying to do a public service to keep the right wing extremists, right leaning moderates, left leaning moderates & left wing extremists folks on this board safe.

(And don't forget to take your vitamin D supplements)

We went to Costco early morning and picked up supplies (can't beat their bacon and some frozen meals).

Everyone was playing nice except for this woman who was louder than she needed to be when talking to her family, she had her mask under her nose. One of those covidiots.

BTW my regular Costco multi-vitamin (Kirkland brand) was only like 65% of Vitamin D daily dose and got some One-a-day which was like 125%. Beats me how really effective Vitamin D is but it does reassure me some that I now get more than the recommended daily dose.

From our favorite family doctor, he recommends Vitamin D & C.

The 2 Vitamins Dr. Fauci Says You Should Take to Boost Immunity (https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/the-2-vitamins-dr-fauci-says-you-should-take-to-boost-immunity/ar-BB191V3K?li=BBnba9O)
That's why Anthony Fauci, MD, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), recommends two vitamins you should take to boost your immunity: vitamin C and vitamin D.
:
A study published on Sept. 3 by the Journal of the American Medical Association found that having a vitamin D deficiency increases your risk of testing positive for the coronavirus by nearly 80 percent. This was after studying 489 subjects, 60 percent of whom had adequate vitamin D levels. Out of that 60 percent, only 12 percent had the virus. But among the among the 25 percent of patients with a vitamin D deficiency, 22 percent tested positive.Another study found that vitamin D could even help those already infected with the virus.
:
But Fauci also mentioned vitamin C in his interview. "The other vitamin that people take is vitamin C because it's a good antioxidant, so if people want to take a gram or two, at most, of vitamin C, that would be fine," he said.There is more research on the direct link between the coronavirus and vitamin D than on the relationship between COVID and vitamin C. However, the National Institutes of Health (NIH) does note that vitamin C "plays an important role in immune function,"

FWIW, somewhat reassuring graphic on 7 day average for deaths.

Zoom In Icon (https://www.cnbc.com/2020/09/15/coronavirus-live-updates.html)
https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106702756-1600171377755-us_new_deaths_curve_0915.png?v=1600171399&w=740&h=435

We are soooooo bad at this.

<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If I were an old-school Soviet making the case for government control over everything, I'd point to 2020 U.S.A. as my primary evidence. SMH. <a href="https://t.co/OLqFoTRfzB">https://t.co/OLqFoTRfzB</a></p>&mdash; Ben Lewis (@benelou) <a href="https://twitter.com/benelou/status/1306721901734133760?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">September 17, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

Haven't really been keeping up with Europe but apparently there is a second wave going on (or in-progress)? Easing of lock downs and reopening the economies.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/17/europe/coronavirus-europe-who-second-wave-intl/index.html
The World Health Organization (WHO) has warned that coronavirus cases are surging alarmingly in Europe, as a "very serious situation" unfolds across the continent.

As Covid-19 infections spike to record numbers, European governments are imposing strict local measures and weighing up further lockdowns in a bid to halt a second wave of the pandemic.

But WHO regional director Hans Kluge said at a Thursday news conference that the increase in cases should serve as a warning of what is to come.
"Weekly cases have now exceeded those reported when the pandemic first peaked in Europe in March," Kluge said. "Last week, the region's weekly tally exceeded 300,000 patients."

More than half of European nations have reported an increase of more than 10% in new cases in the past two weeks, Kluge added. "Of those, seven countries have seen newly reported cases increase more than two-fold in the same period," he said.

Jup, Spain and France especially are just stumbling towards desaster. Especially in Paris, Madrid and the South of France you already have hospitals stretched and operating in contingency modes.
UK could also be ugly. Cases not jumped as much yet but their procedures are an utter shambles with private contractors not suited or having the power they need.

Testing and Tracing was never properly set up. Yeah, France and the UK for example now tests a lot but has no lab capacity or PH ressources to go along with that, meaning they face the same issues as the US with looooong wait times for results and difficulty accessing them for the public (basically waiting in line for hours).

Germany so far still keeping up with demand, but the margins get smaller and what's already a wrinkle is that age of cases creeps up. 0-49 stayed stable the lasz 2 weeks, 50+ up 40%.

And fall/winter isn't even close, which will 100% have a negative aspect. Some People are under the insane impression that the spread not disapearing in Summer means it won't be that bad. As if the 'floor' (spreading under worst, for the virus, circumstances) says anything about the 'ceiling'.
It's a respiratory virus spread best indoors ...

There is no "Europe" in this context, so I can't speak about the other 50+ countries on the western part of Eurasia, but the Netherlands is seeing the start of the second wave in North and South Holland. Infection rate (R) is 1.4 here right now, probably bigger than in this part of the country. Hospitalization rate is behind on the wave of infections, but R is reason for concern.

Almost as if an expected second wave in the fall and winter is going to second wave?

SI

One more time: there really is no "Europe" in this context. There's a wide variety how countries are coping with this, are hit by it, either by their own actions or by random luck. Hence, my previous similar statements, I'm only going to comment about the situation here (the Netherlands) and it will only reflect on how it is here, and probably only on where I live: in the outer regions of a crowded city (a small city with a high population density). I have hardly a clue about how it goes in other provinces, like those that border Germany and Belgium. Let alone, how good or bad it is over the border in Belgium and Germany, not to mention our other neighbor across the North Sea in the UK (from where I live, the border with the UK is technically closest). My hometown is in the middle of what our neighboring countries this week have upgraded to a "red zone": stay away, 2 weeks of quarantine compulsory if you've been there. But it doesn't feel like we're in a red zone at all.

Perhaps how good things were going about 6-8 weeks ago here are catching us off guard. It felt like it was gone (it wasn't) and people were slowly getting "back to normal". But "good" was relative, Maassluis was the center of the COVID-19 news for about a week when a mini-outbreak wiped out a chunk of nursery home's population.

As a result, I think people here are thinking: "huh, second wave already? This wasn't supposed to be back until flu season, when it starts raining again." But since about 3 years ago it doesn't even rain anymore in September, flu season used to slowly start mid to late September (*looks at calendar*). And this September even more, it actually feels like it's July on the Mediterranean coast. I posted in the extreme weather thread about it being 30 Celsius in September. Nobody alive has experienced that before in this country. Who said it will get cooler, just watch?

Besides that climate change, what I think is catching people off guard is the not knowing/realizing they could be carrying it. Sure, it might not help that we're not allowed to test without any symptoms, despite we all know you can have it without showing symptoms. Testing is limited, we can't waste the resources. Digging up some numbers, we're heading towards 2K positive cases on a capacity of roughly 25K test per day, with a 17M population. Knowing that still a good portion of those tested isn't really showing symptoms, if you want to get tested, just say you have symptoms.

Tonight was a new press conference by the minister-president and the minister of health care, but it's like: okay, we see more people catching it, testing positive, but very few getting severely ill. As if it only hops around between healthy people. They tried to urge all to remember the social distancing rules, but so much has gone out of lockdown, in rural areas people are starting to act like it's vanished. Despite that the number of infected people in the big 4 cities is spiking to higher numbers than the peaks in April/May. But apparently the Facebook feeds of people are no longer flooded by COVID-19, or whatever.

Before this post gets any longer, I think our sense of "back to normal" takes away the cautiousness. not just because we're back to normal (we aren't!), but people acting like the semi-lockdown is over. And the lack of seeing it around us is seriously making us all, well, less cautious. Unaware. Naive? Dare I call it ignorant?

Went to get my regular 4-5 week haircut at the mall. My haircut place did a great job on masks and social distancing but very disappointed to see large minority of people not wearing masks inside the mall. Covid fatigue I'm sure, made me want to take off my mask also.

There was an anti-lockdown demo in Trafalgar Square today. One of the placards read ‘A virus smarter than the people it effects’... oh, the irony!

There was an anti-lockdown demo in Trafalgar Square today.

Been to that place! Not near as active as Times Square but still fun.

Maybe this will end up being a better fit for the political thread, but who knows what's going on.

Last week the CDC published that COVID is spread by droplets and aerosols. Today the CDC revoked that and said it was just a draft.

Been trying to keep up on vaccine progress or lack of.

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/there-are-seven-coronavirus-vaccine-candidates-being-tested-in-the-us-heres-where-they-stand-2020-09-08?mod=home-page

I'm not sure if this has always been there but I noticed today they had vaccine "target effectiveness".

AstraZeneca - 50%
BioNTech - 60%
Moderna - 60%

Don't know what "target effectiveness" really means but as a layperson reading this, I am somewhat disappointed. But something is definitely better than nothing.

Don't know what "target effectiveness" really means but as a layperson reading this, I am somewhat disappointed. But something is definitely better than nothing.

Yeah. Hopefully that's a floor and the actual number is better.

We can get well over 50% with masks and distancing.

The flu vaccine effectiveness last year was around 45%.

Interim Estimates of 2019–20 Seasonal Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness — United States, February 2020 | MMWR (https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6907a1.htm)

Do they consider "effectiveness" as prevention from getting the virus, or do they consider it as mitigating seriousness of contracting the disease itself? Because my son got the flu vaccine last year, then ended up getting the flu in like January and had some mild-to-moderate symptoms for about a day. My wife and I didn't get it at all with a lot of close contact to him (though we did start on the flu meds as soon as we found out he had it).

Do they consider "effectiveness" as prevention from getting the virus, or do they consider it as mitigating seriousness of contracting the disease itself? Because my son got the flu vaccine last year, then ended up getting the flu in like January and had some mild-to-moderate symptoms for about a day. My wife and I didn't get it at all with a lot of close contact to him (though we did start on the flu meds as soon as we found out he had it).

The flu study is a reduction in positive confirmed cases of flu.

Yeah, so in this case I would think that it will be some percentage effective in preventing COVID, but another percent effective in preventing severe cases. Thanks

Yeah, so in this case I would think that it will be some percentage effective in preventing COVID, but another percent effective in preventing severe cases. Thanks

That cheers me up some.

More good news I guess.
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/johnson-johnson-begins-phase-3-covid-19-vaccine-trial-u-n1240446
A fourth Covid-19 vaccine candidate has gone into the final stage of clinical trials in the U.S., with Johnson & Johnson announcing the start of its Phase 3 trial Wednesday.

The drugmaker follows Pfizer and Moderna, whose Phase 3 trials began in late July. AstraZeneca also started its Phase 3 vaccine trial this month, but it remains on pause in the U.S. after a participant in the U.K. was reported to have developed a spinal cord injury.

The Johnson & Johnson trial is not expected to yield preliminary results for at least two months.

Good news, bad news with this virus:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/23/houston-coronavirus-mutations/?arc404=true

Scientists in Houston on Wednesday released a study of more than 5,000 genetic sequences of the coronavirus, which reveals the virus’s continual accumulation of mutations, one of which may have made it more contagious.

That mutation is associated with a higher viral load among patients upon initial diagnosis, the researchers found.

The new report, however, did not find that these mutations have made the virus deadlier or changed clinical outcomes. All viruses accumulate genetic mutations, and most are insignificant, scientists say.

So it appears this mutation may not have made Covid-19 deadlier, but may have made it more contagious.

Now, it hasn't been peer reviewed yet, note.

I'm really worried about the effect ofa vaccine that is 50% effective. People expect a vaccine will be a cure, and when reports of vaccinated people getting sick start rolling social media will drown in anti-vax stories.

The latest estimates are @400000 deaths by Jan 1, and I'm starting to lean towards 1000000 or more before this is over.

The 4th vaccine entering Phase 3 made me wonder what was the success rate for a Phase 3 vaccine?

There's a chart in the middle of the article. For vaccines (infectious disease) it's at 85.4% once a drug gets into Phase 3 (think I'm reading that right).

Clinical Trial Success Rates by Phase and Therapeutic Area | American Council on Science and Health (https://www.acsh.org/news/2020/06/11/clinical-trial-success-rates-phase-and-therapeutic-area-14845)

However, there's a big caveat. Still a lot of unknowns.

So bottom-line. Eagerly awaiting a FDA approved vaccine. But won't be in the first set of vaccinations (wait 4-6 weeks maybe?).

However, a major caveat is that just because a drug or vaccine is deemed a success by receiving FDA approval does not mean it works particularly well. Why would the FDA approve something like that? Because there aren't any good alternatives. For instance, neither the antiviral drug Tamiflu nor the seasonal flu vaccine are particularly impressive. But, there's nothing better available.

The same concern will remain for any approved coronavirus drug or vaccine. We still don't know if humans develop robust, long-lasting immune responses to coronaviruses. No matter what the FDA says, basic biology ultimately will determine how successful a vaccine is.

Good news, bad news with this virus:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/23/houston-coronavirus-mutations/?arc404=true



So it appears this mutation may not have made Covid-19 deadlier, but may have made it more contagious.

Now, it hasn't been peer reviewed yet, note.

I'm curious where this goes and if it can be validated. There have been other studies about the "G Strain" supplanting the "D Strain" (I believe) from earlier in the summer.

However, I'm a but surprised about a paper that found it "more contagious", "with higher viral load", and yet not "deadlier or changed clinical outcomes". That seems to fly in the face of what we "know" about this virus.

Then again, we're still learning about it so I'm definitely open to the idea that what we thought we knew a few months ago isn't actually true, but, man - it seems like we're starting to know more about it and this goes against a lot of that.

SI

However, I'm a but surprised about a paper that found it "more contagious", "with higher viral load", and yet not "deadlier or changed clinical outcomes". That seems to fly in the face of what we "know" about this virus.

Generally mutations make viruses less deadlier (while also making them more contagious). And that was the hope with Covid mutations that it would make the virus less deadly. It's a bit saddening if the mutations did not make it less deadlier while making it more contagious.

Good news, bad news with this virus:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/23/houston-coronavirus-mutations/?arc404=true



So it appears this mutation may not have made Covid-19 deadlier, but may have made it more contagious.

Now, it hasn't been peer reviewed yet, note.

And again and it annoys the shit out of me this is not clarified in all those articles: This all happened in February/March for a lot of areas ! What happened in NYC (there was a study showing that, while IIRC correctly the West Coast had the old one dominant for a while), Italy, France etc was almost exclusively caused by this very version of the virus people keep speculating is a weaker version. In Italy 100% of tests showed exactly this one from Feb 20th.
It might well be weaker than the older version (as you said that makes sense for a virus) but that does not change anything because that switch happened in February/March and not recently. So pinning any hopes on that as a "well, the virus now is less dangerous" thing makes no sense.

DEFINE_ME (https://www.cell.com/action/showPdf?pii=S0092-8674%2820%2930820-5)

(Graphics in the appendix)

So, yup - just restating what was found out and reported on this summer about what had happened months prior.

Looks like the Washington Post article shows that graphic at the very end but doesn't really talk about it in the article so you'd have to bring that knowledge with you from other articles/papers.

Idle speculation: Because of that timeline, I wonder if it is actually more deadly but has been offset by how we've made it less deadly with the better knowledge we have of treating the virus. Which would also be bad news. As ISiddiqui says, viruses tend to mutate to less deadly (the whole "downward pressure" idea because if you kill hosts, well, it's harder to reproduce.

SI

So, yup - just restating what was found out and reported on this summer about what had happened months prior.

Looks like the Washington Post article shows that graphic at the very end but doesn't really talk about it in the article so you'd have to bring that knowledge with you from other articles/papers.

Idle speculation: Because of that timeline, I wonder if it is actually more deadly but has been offset by how we've made it less deadly with the better knowledge we have of treating the virus. Which would also be bad news. As ISiddiqui says, viruses tend to mutate to less deadly (the whole "downward pressure" idea because if you kill hosts, well, it's harder to reproduce.

SI

My phone doesn't do graphics from the Post for some reason and i admittedly skimmed the article ... (But there were a wave of them over here recently from a lot less dilligent media, often of a certain tendency to declare it all over)

Many scientists actually don't think it is even close to being that functionally different (even the respective study authors are very cautious with that Interpretation). It might just be due to migratory effects, i.e. being introduced by more people from the outside. (In Asia both versions were evenly spread in April still btw) Coincidence happens and with still lowish numbers has a disproportionate effect.

Also scientists are in agreements that this virus (like coronaviruses in general) is not mutating significantly, that's just not sth they are build to do. More than, say, Measles or others but way less than the Influenza Viruses. And if you read about dozens or hundreds of genetically different versions that's correct. But that's way less exciting than it sounds. 99,9 % of genetical changes don't have any effect (or in animals/humans just visual ones, too).

The sum of it is discussion on purposely infecting candidates for vaccine research. Obviously not educated enough to understand the pros and cons of this approach but TBH, doesn't sit well with me when we are talking about a life threatening infection. Interesting ethical dilemma.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/23/health/coronavirus-vaccine-uk-challenge-trials-intl/index.html
The British government is exploring the possibility of clinical trials in which volunteers are deliberately exposed to coronavirus to test the effectiveness of vaccine candidates, the UK Department for Business, Energy, and Industrial Strategy (BEIS) revealed Wednesday in a statement.
:
:
In so-called "challenge trials," researchers give study subjects an experimental vaccine and then intentionally expose them to coronavirus to see if the vaccine works. Such trials were used in early research with smallpox, yellow fever and malaria.

However, deliberately infecting study participants poses more risks and raises ethical concerns, compared to randomized controlled trials, where study subjects receive a vaccine or a placebo, and researchers monitor to see if they become ill as they go about their daily lives.
:
:
It also said controlled infection trials could be ethically acceptable if they met certain criteria. These include choosing young and healthy adults as participants, starting with low doses, ensuring public engagement, and providing high-quality care and close monitoring.

But in July, members of the US National Institutes of Health "Accelerating Covid-19 Therapeutic Interventions and Vaccines" (ACTIV) Working Group said such trials would not hasten development of a vaccine.

That idea is beyond dumb on so many levels.

Sure seems like Boris has been working to purposefully expose people to the virus for the past few months.

A long read. What I got out of it was


Vaccine by late 2020 or early 2021
First set of vaccines won't be as effective as later ones
Everyone will get vaccinated by 2H 2021
Over time/years, it'll eventually become like the flu

Or in other words, long road ahead and die with a whimper, not a bang. I think most of us know this but I am disappointed by the 2H (or actually Nov) 2021 projection. You would think most of US could get vaccinated in the 1H.

Disappointing that article only had one paragraph on therapies, I think therapies are just as important as vaccines especially in the near term.

Here&rsquo;s How the Pandemic Finally Ends - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/09/25/how-covid-19-pandemic-ends-421122)
Fast forward to the future. Now, when the prickly enemies invade the lungs, they slip past the human cells, unable to take hold. They’re marked for destruction, soon to be surrounded and eliminated. Though some escape through the airways, they confront the same defenses in their next target—if, that is, they can get anywhere near the human cells. There are so few people left to infect that the germs have nowhere to replicate, nowhere to survive.

This is the end of the coronavirus pandemic. And this is how it could happen in the United States: By November 2021, most Americans have received two doses of a vaccine that, while not gloriously effective, fights the disease in more cases than not. Meanwhile, Americans continue to wear masks and avoid large gatherings, and the Covid-19 numbers drop steadily after a series of surges earlier in the year. Eventually, as more and more Americans develop immunity through exposure and vaccination, and as treatments become more effective, Covid-19 recedes into the swarm of ordinary illnesses Americans get every winter.

“It will take two things to bring this virus under control: hygienic measures and a vaccine. And you can’t have one without the other,” says Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center and an attending physician in the Division of Infectious Diseases at Children’s Hospital of Philadelphia.

Everyone will get vaccinated by 2H 2021


There are way too many people out there that consider an upcoming vaccination "the mark of the beast". I'm very curious if attitudes change in the Evangelical community by then.

A long read. What I got out of it was


Vaccine by late 2020 or early 2021
First set of vaccines won't be as effective as later ones
Everyone will get vaccinated by 2H 2021
Over time/years, it'll eventually become like the flu

Or in other words, long road ahead and die with a whimper, not a bang. I think most of us know this but I am disappointed by the 2H (or actually Nov) 2021 projection. You would think most of US could get vaccinated in the 1H.

Disappointing that article only had one paragraph on therapies, I think therapies are just as important as vaccines especially in the near term.

Here&rsquo;s How the Pandemic Finally Ends - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/09/25/how-covid-19-pandemic-ends-421122)

Lol at masks and avoiding large gatherings in 2021. Lots of people won't do that now. I'm pretty sure that before football season ends we'll see full college stadiums.

A long read. What I got out of it was

Vaccine by late 2020 or early 2021
First set of vaccines won't be as effective as later ones
Everyone will get vaccinated by 2H 2021
Over time/years, it'll eventually become like the fluOr in other words, long road ahead and die with a whimper, not a bang. I think most of us know this but I am disappointed by the 2H (or actually Nov) 2021 projection. You would think most of US could get vaccinated in the 1H.

Disappointing that article only had one paragraph on therapies, I think therapies are just as important as vaccines especially in the near term.

Here’s How the Pandemic Finally Ends - POLITICO (https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/09/25/how-covid-19-pandemic-ends-421122)

Not that different than these articles written back in March:
Coronavirus: How does the Covid-19 outbreak end? - Vox (https://www.vox.com/science-and-health/2020/3/6/21161234/coronavirus-covid-19-science-outbreak-ends-endemic-vaccine)
How Will the Coronavirus End? - The Atlantic (https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/03/how-will-coronavirus-end/608719/)


Some of the future predictions were a bit off and there were no dates. But the process and ideas were the same.

SI

Lol at masks and avoiding large gatherings in 2021. Lots of people won't do that now. I'm pretty sure that before football season ends we'll see full college stadiums.

I do have this morbid thought: we are, as an American society (and I'm sure this is true around the world, too - just to different percentages) working towards herd immunity. The people who will take the vaccine and the people who don't trust a vaccine/wear a mask are working towards it - just in different ways. One part is working towards avoiding it until they can get vaccinated while another part is working on catching it and getting immunity that way.

SI

I wonder if masks will start getting more "creative" as Halloween approaches.

I hope so. I usually get a laugh or two when I go out grocery shopping in my plague doctor mask.

I wonder if masks will start getting more "creative" as Halloween approaches.

I hope so. I usually get a laugh or two when I go out grocery shopping in my plague doctor mask.

Somewhat related, wife and I were discussing if Halloween was even going to happen much this year.

Wouldn't parents be concerned about kids taking candy (1) from someone's hand or (2) from a candy box that had a bunch of other hands in it and afterwards (3) unwrapping candy that's been touched or breathed on by someone etc.

We were wondering how we would distribute the candy and were thinking about a spaghetti fork/spatula where we would scoop the candy into kids hands.

We are skipping Halloween. Not going to mess with it. My job tells me to protect my bubble, so seeing a bunch of random people is not worth it.

And our subdivision is a very popular stop for the towns people.

We were talking about this, too. We're either doing nothing or leaving out a bowl of candy for kids to take from at their own risk. Not really excited about this and bummed that we're going to miss a fun year for Halloween with our 5yo :(

SI

If Im drinking bourbon and get a runny nose, do I have covid?

If Im drinking bourbon and get a runny nose, do I have covid?

Better drink more bourbon to find out.

We've got a really good Halloween system going where my B-I-L sets up a firepit at that top of his driveway and we sit there and drink lots of beer while we hand out candy while our kids go trick or treat in the neighborhood.

It is going to suck to not get to do that this year. We've really distilled it down to a perfect holiday (beer, candy, fire).

We've got a really good Halloween system going where my B-I-L sets up a firepit at that top of his driveway and we sit there and drink lots of beer while we hand out candy while our kids go trick or treat in the neighborhood.

It is going to suck to not get to do that this year. We've really distilled it down to a perfect holiday (beer, candy, fire).

Yes. We build a fire in the fire pit in the driveway and sit by it. We have a table by the sidewalk and let the kids get what they want and we enjoy life.

This year is a no go.

Better drink more bourbon to find out.

If there was ever a right answer to a question, this is it to every question. Drink more.

Wife and I had a discussion and have agreed not to patronize stores that do not have mask required.

There is a bagel store close by that my wife drops by after a run. For the past 3 weekends, there's been customers lined up without masks.

I know our Kroger have the mask required. I honestly don't know if Publix or Target does, I'll pay closer attention next time.

There's also a car tune-up, oil change, tire place that is owned by someone in our subdivision. It's got a lighted up sign saying "only 1% death rate" (no idea where he got that stat), you get the idea. That used to be our go-to place for non major stuff since it was so close but we're not going to give it our business anymore.

Unbelievably stupid for a business to make a statement like that.

I walked into a pizza joint the other day that I don’t usually go to. 4 people behind the counter. Three not wearing a mask. Turned around and left.

Wife and I had a discussion and have agreed not to patronize stores that do not have mask required.

There is a bagel store close by that my wife drops by after a run. For the past 3 weekends, there's been customers lined up without masks.

I know our Kroger have the mask required. I honestly don't know if Publix or Target does, I'll pay closer attention next time.

There's also a car tune-up, oil change, tire place that is owned by someone in our subdivision. It's got a lighted up sign saying "only 1% death rate" (no idea where he got that stat), you get the idea. That used to be our go-to place for non major stuff since it was so close but we're not going to give it our business anymore.

We've made this decision with regards to our food carryout. Though I'd argue it's as much about self-preservation than anything. I don't want a bunch of people who don't care about this messing with my food. Yes, there are no confirmed food or fomite transmission cases but it's not impossible. And I suspect some of that has to do with the fact that you can't trace down the transmission means for the majority of cases.

I guess, similar idea with the car place: I wouldn't want to get into my car if some dude not wearing a mask was breathing (coughing?) in it for a few minutes before I was in it. That said, we haven't done any car stuff in 6 months because we just aren't driving it that much.

SI

Unbelievably stupid for a business to make a statement like that.

I walked into a pizza joint the other day that I don’t usually go to. 4 people behind the counter. Three not wearing a mask. Turned around and left.

Our local pizza/pasta place had the same thing the last time we did take-out. We haven't ordered from them since.

Our local pizza/pasta place had the same thing the last time we did take-out. We haven't ordered from them since.

Yup. We have a new pizza place b/c of what I saw the employees of our old pizza place doing.

This all makes me wonder if these states that are "opening the economy" are really going to get the boosts that they expect.

With most places putting half-measure into place and then not even enforcing those, it seems like most everyone who wants to be out and about is already doing it.

And a lot of people who have switched to takeout/curbside, etc. aren't doing it to comply with the law but because they don't want to catch a dangerous disease.

Opening things up is not going to get these people back into stores and resturants.

Only some combination of widely available rapid testing, mask compliance, and a vaccine is going to really get the economy "open" again.

There isn't a restaurant in Newburgh where the atmosphere is worth taking a risk regarding the virus. I'd hate to get to heaven and have to tell St. Peter that I died because I absolutely had to experience the atmosphere at Perkins.

I don't know the layouts of the places mentioned but do consider one thing. If the ovens/kitchens are in close proximity to the counter, restaurant kitchens are a fucking sauna. Wearing a mask constantly in a super hot kitchen has got to be unbearable. Entirely possible they were just taking some time to breathe.

I don't know the specific situation, but if there were no customers in close proximity, and they weren't actively preparing food, they might deserve to be cut a little slack.

In my case, it's a small area. The east side is a prep station. The west side is for pizza by the slice display. The south side is the pizza oven. The real problem is the north side is the register and food pickup. The last time I went in, there were four people in this small area, one guy had a mask, but it was around his neck, one guy had a mask on his chin, below his mouth, and the two girls doing the register and takeout didn't have masks at all.

edit: It takes two steps to get from one side to the opposite side.

I don't know the layouts of the places mentioned but do consider one thing. If the ovens/kitchens are in close proximity to the counter, restaurant kitchens are a fucking sauna. Wearing a mask constantly in a super hot kitchen has got to be unbearable. Entirely possible they were just taking some time to breathe.

I don't know the specific situation, but if there were no customers in close proximity, and they weren't actively preparing food, they might deserve to be cut a little slack.

Go outside if you need a mask break. Having worked in restaurants I truly do empathize with them, but they have to know the perception.

Go outside if you need a mask break. Having worked in restaurants I truly do empathize with them, but they have to know the perception.

And in NY it isn't just perception. If somebody turns them in, I didn't and won't, they'll get some good sized fines.

I don't mind if the folks in the back where masks, tbh. The far less of a risk of transmission on surfaces and the high heat (and it's affect on viruses) make me ok with it. However all public facing employees should surely be wearing them.

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There isn't a restaurant in Newburgh where the atmosphere is worth taking a risk regarding the virus. I'd hate to get to heaven and have to tell St. Peter that I died because I absolutely had to experience the atmosphere at Perkins.

But its Perkins....

But its Perkins....

Mmmmmm....Perkins.

Good to know companies are planning ahead. The article does go into more detail on preparation by Hormel, General Mills, Kellogg, Campbell, Walmart, Coca-Cola.

Probably a good idea to buy some extra canned foods, paper products, and other things you will eventually eat & use.

Grocers Stockpile, Build ‘Pandemic Pallets’ Ahead of Winter - WSJ (https://www.wsj.com/articles/grocers-stockpile-build-pandemic-pallets-ahead-of-winter-11601199000)
Supermarkets are stockpiling groceries and storing them early to prepare for the fall and winter months, when some health experts warn the country could see another widespread outbreak of virus cases and new restrictions. Food companies are accelerating production of their most popular items, and leaders across the industry are saying they won’t be caught unprepared in the face of another pandemic surge.
:
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Associated Food Stores recently started building “pandemic pallets” of cleaning and sanitizing products so it always has some inventory in warehouses
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Industry executives say they don’t think a potential wintertime burst in grocery demand will be as extreme as it was in March, when people panic-shopped, fearing grocery-store closures or food shortages. Consumers are better prepared this time around

The big new outbreaks in NY are driven largely by the Orthodox Jewish communities that are basically ignoring all precautions. My county has a 20% positivity rate, but almost exclusively driven by the Kiryas Joel community and surrounding areas.

The big new outbreaks in NY are driven largely by the Orthodox Jewish communities that are basically ignoring all precautions. My county has a 20% positivity rate, but almost exclusively driven by the Kiryas Joel community and surrounding areas.

Same problem here in New Jersey where there is a huge hasidic jewish community in Lakewood. They really are the worst. Zero interest in following the rules and claiming rule of their god over public health. They clogged up the hospitals around here in March. They couldn't care less about the rules of effects their behaviors have on anyone else. That goes for everyday life also, not just the pandemic. They are terrible.

Lest anyone think my comments were anti-Semitic my dad and his whole side of the family are Jewish. These people are in a world of their own and are human cockroaches.

Here in Maine we still have very few cases and very little community transmission, but our largest outbreak is fueled by a church in Sanford which insists on continuing to hold indoor services with choirs (in addition to an indoor wedding the pastor there served at). It's nothing like these other larger communities but it's frustrating that there are groups who are somehow seeing this as an act of faith to refuse to wear masks or gather carefully.

If I'm out and see the Amish I get the fuck out of their airspace. They travel in packs and aren't too keen on masks.

Lest anyone think my comments were anti-Semitic my dad and his whole side of the family are Jewish. These people are in a world of their own and are human cockroaches.

I find their behavior and attitude has a lot left to be desired. I really want to know where the groups are that demand that they 'integrate into American culture'? Because it's ok to say that only to certain groups, but not to others.

If I'm out and see the Amish I get the fuck out of their airspace. They travel in packs and aren't too keen on masks.

Or deoderant

Only some combination of widely available rapid testing, mask compliance, and a vaccine is going to really get the economy "open" again.

Or the return of rational thought instead of tragically asinine paranoia.

{thinks a minute}

Yeah, you're right. A miracle cure probably has better odds.

These people are in a world of their own and are human cockroaches.

You may want to rethink this language. It has really bad historical context.

I used to live close to a large Amish community. Nicest people you could ever meet. I am surprised they are not wearing masks because they are allowed use of modern medicine. I wouldn't think it was political either.

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You may want to rethink this language. It has really bad historical context.

We disagree on much but we agree on this.

Change the context from hasidic jews cockroaches to brown illegal cockroaches and this board would be in an uproar at the bigotry. Glad that you (so far) proved me wrong on the oblivious hypocrisy.

Or deoderant

I have been to at least 2 different Amish restaurants in OH. It may have been because they were in the service industry but I really didn't notice anything out of the norm (and there was at least one really cute girl!). They interacted with their customers just fine and didn't smell, sound funny etc.

I will say I was disappointed at the food because I was expecting something different. But it was pretty much the typical fried chicken, spaghetti, biscuits etc. They did have pies that I've never tried before - rhubarb and something like "three berries pie" but don't think they are specific to the Amish.

We disagree on much but we agree on this.

Change the context from hasidic jews cockroaches to brown illegal cockroaches and this board would be in an uproar at the bigotry. Glad that you (so far) proved me wrong on the oblivious hypocrisy.

It has nothing to do with hypocrisy. Cockroaches has a very specific historical context towards Jews. I don't think Lathum meant it in that way, but if it were me I'd use different language.

I have been to at least 2 different Amish restaurants in OH. It may have been because they were in the service industry but I really didn't notice anything out of the norm (and there was at least one really cute girl!). They interacted with their customers just fine and didn't smell, sound funny etc.

I will say I was disappointed at the food because I was expecting something different. But it was pretty much the typical fried chicken, spaghetti, biscuits etc. They did have pies that I've never tried before - rhubarb and something like "three berries pie" but don't think they are specific to the Amish.

I don't know about these businesses, but it isn't uncommon for Mennonites to front Amish businesses.

This thread has gone in a weird (and somewhat uncomfortable) direction I did not expect

SI

We have gotten back most foods, toilet paper and paper towels. Are we ever getting printer cartridges back and if so, back to a normal price? $95 is not going to be a thing that I do.

Clorox wipes are still fleeting. I've managed to get a couple of tubs (as we use about half a tub during monthly cleaning) so we're set for a while but have to be pretty eagle eyed to see them. Everything else has been smooth sailing for a while. Most of the grocery supply issues seem to be more of not having a particular brand and them not wanting to give my a more expensive sub for the lower price than anything else.

SI

We disagree on much but we agree on this.

Change the context from hasidic jews cockroaches to brown illegal cockroaches and this board would be in an uproar at the bigotry. Glad that you (so far) proved me wrong on the oblivious hypocrisy.

I'll assume you know nothing about Lakewoods hasidic jews and how they conduct themselves. Brown illegals come here to make a better life for themselves. They want to work hard, not make waves, and earn a living for their kids and send money to their families back home. I own a business in a commiunity full of them. I know these people.

Twenty minutes away is one of the largest hasidic jewish communities. They have destroyed the town they live in. Purposely tank real estate, destroy the schools, etc...they actively look to destroy everything around them to suit their needs. They are very organized and run their communities like a corrupt business. I would feel the same way if they were any religion.

Race, religion, corruption and politics: A guide to the crisis in Lakewood - nj.com (https://www.nj.com/news/2017/08/lakewood_inside_the_turmoil_in_njs_most_controvers.html)

Influx of Orthodox Jews in Lakewood Causing Growth, and Conflict | New Jersey Public Radio | WQXR (https://www.wqxr.org/story/influx-orthodox-jews-lakewood-causing-growth-and-conflict/)

As for historical context I am not aware of any and meant no offense.

While I agree with the jist, it is pretty offensive to call Jews 'cockroaches'. I'm glad to hear that you were unaware of the problematic history (to say the least) of term and I would counsel you never to use that word again (especially around Jewish people).

While I agree with the jist, it is pretty offensive to call Jews 'cockroaches'. I'm glad to hear that you were unaware of the problematic history (to say the least) of term and I would counsel you never to use that word again (especially around Jewish people).

duly noted.

You are from that area, I think you get why I would describe them with that term.

Wow.

I'll assume you know nothing about hasidic jews and how they conduct themselves. Brown illegals come here to make a better life for themselves. They want to work hard, not make waves, and earn a living for their kids and send money to their families back home. I own a business in a commiunity full of them. I know these people.

Twenty minutes away is one of the largest hasidic jewish communities. They have destroyed the town they live in. Purposely tank real estate, destroy the schools, etc...they actively look to destroy everything around them to suit their needs. They are very organized and run their communities like a corrupt business. I would feel the same way if they were any religion.

Race, religion, corruption and politics: A guide to the crisis in Lakewood - nj.com (https://www.nj.com/news/2017/08/lakewood_inside_the_turmoil_in_njs_most_controvers.html)

Influx of Orthodox Jews in Lakewood Causing Growth, and Conflict | New Jersey Public Radio | WQXR (https://www.wqxr.org/story/influx-orthodox-jews-lakewood-causing-growth-and-conflict/)

As for historical context I am not aware of any and meant no offense.

We'll agree to disagree.

I do not consider this "racist" but do consider this extremely "bigoted" and will wait (may be a long while though) to hear from others condemning this. Not because the word "cockroaches" have a "problematic history" re: Jews but because of the word itself.

I'm sure you've thoroughly researched all the definitions so I'll accept your findings.

I'm sure you've thoroughly researched all the definitions so I'll accept your findings.

Nice pithy comeback. Sounds like what Trump would have said Tue night when he was sulking.

Nice pithy comeback. Sounds like what Trump would have said Tue night when he was sulking.

Lighten up Francis.

Lighten up Francis.

Best thing you could do is say I'm sorry or I misspoke. Instead you continue to insert foot into mouth and digging a much deeper hole.

As for historical context I am not aware of any and meant no offense.

You must have been to busy with your faux outrage to see this.

You must have been to busy with your faux outrage to see this.

My outrage (actually more like confused amusement at the oblivious hypocrisy going on here) is not on the "historical context" or the "problematic history" as your bros tried to soften your words, it is describing them as cockroaches.

Not because the word "cockroaches" have a "problematic history" re: Jews but because of the word itself.

I guess you can call a group of people cockroaches and not mean to offend, but not in my world.

Fair enough.

If you are from monmouth or ocean county NJ you would understand my use of that word with regards to them. As far as I know Isiddiqui is the only other person on this board from there and he got the jist.

Again, I apologize for my ignorance with regard to not knowing the historical context of that particular word. I won’t apologize for my generalization of them.

Getting back on to the subject at hand ...

I personally have not had any vaccine reactions as bad as the 5 described below (and I've been vaccinated quite a bit traveling overseas). Sore spot where the injection went in and that is about it.

I hope they are the exceptions or that the approved vaccines will be more finetuned.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/01/coronavirus-vaccine-trial-participants-exhaustion-fever-headaches.html
Luke Hutchison woke up in the middle of the night with chills and a fever after taking the Covid-19 booster shot in Moderna’s vaccine trial. Another coronavirus vaccine trial participant, testing Pfizer’s candidate, similarly woke up with chills, shaking so hard he cracked a tooth after taking the second dose.

High fever, body aches, bad headaches and exhaustion are just some of the symptoms five participants in two of the leading coronavirus vaccine trials say they felt after receiving the shots.

In interviews, all five participants — three in Moderna’s study and two in Pfizer’s late-stage trials — said they think the discomfort is worth it to protect themselves against the coronavirus. Four of them asked not to be identified, but CNBC reviewed documentation that verified their participation in the trials.

While the symptoms were uncomfortable, and at times intense, they often went away after a day, sometimes sooner, according to three participants in the Moderna trial and one in Pfizer’s as well as a person close to another participant in Moderna’s trial.

I do not consider this "racist" but do consider this extremely "bigoted" and will wait (may be a long while though) to hear from others condemning this.

I'll elaborate if anyone thinks it's useful, but I agree 100% - hence my one-word post preceding yours. It's not even the only problematic post (or poster) on this page of this thread in that regard.

As above, I have a problem with broad brushing any group of people from a faith (or race, gender, etc) like that.

(EDIT: Unless there's something inherent in their beliefs that would be part of the broad brush. For instance, if there was the "Club for Guys who hate Oreos", hating oreos is kindof in their name. Similarly, this fits into the "If you're voting for a particular candidate/political party, there are things you value some things more than other things" because otherwise, you'd vote for the other person)

SI

As above, I have a problem with broad brushing any group of people from a faith (or race, gender, etc) like that.

SI

Believe me when I say their faith is completely irrelevant. My comments and opinions are in no way critical of their religious beliefs. They are rooted in the fact they are a criminal enterprise hiding behind a religion. This isn’t akin to saying all Muslims are terrorists. It’s more like saying all members of isis are terrorists. I wish there was a better way to describe them, because I know how it comes across. You’ll just have to trust me when I say if you had experience with this group you would understand what I’m trying to say, albeit poorly.

I'll elaborate if anyone thinks it's useful, but I agree 100% - hence my one-word post preceding yours.

yeah my initial reaction is to agree 100% with this. The whole thing makes me extremely uncomfortable and if someone who was right leaning making the post I imagine there would be a ton of people jumping all over it. Wow, and ick.

How have you never had a rhubarb pie? My all time favorite pie is Strawberry/rhubarb. Heat in the microwave and plop some vanilla ice cream on it and man I am in heaven. The right balance of sweet and tart. So, so good.

yeah my initial reaction is to agree 100% with this. The whole thing makes me extremely uncomfortable and if someone who was right leaning making the post I imagine there would be a ton of people jumping all over it. Wow, and ick.

We differ quite a bit but thank you for that acknowledgement about the hypocrisy.

We have an Orthodox community in Orange County, and they have caused a number of problems refusing to follow state and county laws, and I find their treatment of women objectionable. That being said, I think Lathum goes way too far in his language and I called that out a while ago. The comparison to ISIS isn't much better.

How have you never had a rhubarb pie? My all time favorite pie is Strawberry/rhubarb. Heat in the microwave and plop some vanilla ice cream on it and man I am in heaven. The right balance of sweet and tart. So, so good.

My wife makes good pecan & blueberry pie. We also buy frozen pies once in a while but don't remember ever seeing frozen rhubarb pie (or maybe I never looked for it).

Yeah, vanilla (w/beans) ice cream is great on pies.

It is clear I am doing a poor job explaining myself, and will probably just make it worse so I am just going to say I am sorry and move on. I have no hate in my heart and sorry it comes across like I do.

and I like pie.

Highly recommended reading:


FAQs on Protecting Yourself from Aerosol Transmission - Google Docs (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fB5pysccOHvxphpTmCG_TGdytavMmc1cUumn8m0pwzo/preview?pru=AAABdQ2udnk*sKxXxOW95qUqu8KCZG4jYA)


Group of scientists from different fields from collecting the current knowledge/consensus (but also unclear stuff) around transmission in general and aerosol transmission in particular.
Easily understandable, comprehensive and relatable to practical aspects. Done in FAQ style and thus can jump here and there depending on what piques your interest.


As an aside: Mother of a friend had to get testet as a known contact today. Said friend helped me and my parents move some furniture around yesterday, so fingers crossed she's negative (Results take 1-3 days ...)

It's only fair for me to mention, not to prolong the discussion or anything, that Lathum clearly wasn't comparing anyone to ISIS. That was an argument from logic.

This is the issue with sports in the Covid era...

Sale Sharks: Premiership game with Worcester Warriors to go ahead despite Covid-19 cases - BBC Sport (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54391167)

16 positive cases in a squad, but unwilling to not play as it will cost them a playoff spot. A ‘crucial’ game to play, maybe more crucial not to play

This is the issue with sports in the Covid era...

Sale Sharks: Premiership game with Worcester Warriors to go ahead despite Covid-19 cases - BBC Sport (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/54391167)

16 positive cases in a squad, but unwilling to not play as it will cost them a playoff spot. A ‘crucial’ game to play, maybe more crucial not to playThat's so wrong. These are times that require special precautions as we/they knew well ahead of time situations like this would come up. The schedules that were made, they knew there was a 99% chance that COVID-19 would show up and put games in danger. What happens if both teams have a positive case, do both lose by default, or does the team that was cowardly enough to report it last win?

The problem with forfeiting as a punishment, it will encourage to not properly test players and field infected players. Besides, why on earth do these sports teams need to be tested so thoroughly and take away from the testing capacity that's so scarce all across the globe. Many countries are still amidst their rising peak, while others are heavily battling their second wave, as governments start buying testing capacity across borders in bidding wars.

In the remainder of 2020 all team sports should have the same guideline: 1 positive case on a team and all the games of that team in the next 7, 10, 14 days (whatever the guidelines of quarantine are in their homeland) must be postponed. No exceptions.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/02/health/coronavirus-misc-cdc-new-syndrome-adults/index.html

I hesitate to post but I am hoping the CDC is back providing to non watered down information.