People here with severe allergies have officially been advised not to take the Pfizer vaccine after two NHS workers suffered reactions in the first day of vaccination... It doesn’t help convince the sceptics who think the whole process has been rushed through

People here with severe allergies have officially been advised not to take the Pfizer vaccine after two NHS workers suffered reactions in the first day of vaccination... It doesn’t help convince the sceptics who think the whole process has been rushed through

I think the vaccine Pharma executives, board members etc. and their families should take it first.

The cynical me says this was discussed already and for one reason or another, was not done.

I know there will always be a certain % with adverse reaction, and I believe the risks to be acceptable (considering the alternative). Nevertheless, it would be a good show of confidence to general public.

Wouldn't people just view it as the Russian vaccine that Putin gave his daughter(?) where we all just assume it was for show and probably not even a real shot?

SI

Wouldn't people just view it as the Russian vaccine that Putin gave his daughter(?) where we all just assume it was for show and probably not even a real shot?

SI

I would assume the western reporters will do their due diligence and make sure it wasn't a fraud injection.

My boss is in the hospital with COIVD and I have been drafted into some pretty intense stuff that I am figuring out on the fly. I feel like that guy who played QB for the Broncos a few weeks ago. I spend my short breaks dreaming about my next vacation - even if that's just me at home for a few weeks.

Get better soon, MrBug.

Interesting tool to see how overwhelmed your hospital is.

Thanks for the link. No data for three of the four hospitals in the rural country I live in. The one that does report, 72% and 42%. It wouldn't take many patients to tip that either way.

One of ours is 100% and 27%. The other is 83% and 14%.

Emory is doing pretty well because the highest cases are out in the country.

https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/130945110_10225073656889525_8813482897997793088_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=St4AkAj4HswAX-qIZ81&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=85e4b885d8dfa865068e9ae0c18db3c9&oe=5FF9377D

heh

spoilered for some nsfw language

https://i.imgur.com/VsDwIDO.jpg

heh again

I'm still trying to rationalize the tremendous spike. Someone help me understand.

On the worldometers site, it show the start of 7-day moving avg increases beginning in mid-Oct. With incubation period of let's say 14 days, what happened in mid Sept, early Oct that cause this?

The flip answer is many people got weary and got careless etc. but looking for something more tangible.

Was it the GOP mask-less political campaigning? Might explain TX but doesn't explain CA or NY

Air travel did seem to tick up in late Sept, early Oct according to • COVID-19 impact on TSA checkpoint numbers | Statista (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1107016/coronavirus-tsa-checkpoint-travel-numbers-us-airports/). So I guess that might be a factor

Was it that workers returning to office? I couldn't find any stats but don't remember reading any articles on that. I think most companies are still have workers do remote as preferred choice.

Was it the opening up of restaurants and other small businesses? Maybe

So what happened in mid Sept to early Oct, that didn't occur over the summer, to start this?

Schools?

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Usually takes 6-8ish weeks for a little bit of noise to equal a major spike so, I think some combination of schools and pandemic fatigue

SI

I think all the data about "well, little kids don't spread COVID like we thought" is going to be found to be false or at least partially false. It's pretty hard to show where exactly you got a communicable disease when it's endemic in the population (also a good reason to doubt all the airline studies that are like "no one is reporting they got sick on the plane" because not only were they on a plane but a new city, a hotel, etc - so it would be impossible to pinpoint exactly where you got infected). And I think it's going to fit into the category of "duh, of course schools were a major vector for transmission (especially those who threw their hands up in the air and said 'kids can't wear masks so don't even try to enforce it'").

SI

It's even more simple than schools. It's colder weather. We saw the growth hit Europe, who starts colder weather before the states, we knew the case growth was coming, and it did. It's not terribly surprising.

It's even more simple than schools. It's colder weather. We saw the growth hit Europe, who starts colder weather before the states, we knew the case growth was coming, and it did. It's not terribly surprising.
How you feeling, PM? Think about you all the time.

Thanks, I have mostly recovered. All my symptoms have lessened and today was the first day that my boys and I got outside for a couple hours and played some disc golf. I'm legal to go out again. Only my wife is still under quarantine in the house. She's the last one to get better, and it's mostly making her exceptionally tired.

My middle son tested negative, so I wonder if that means that he was the one who brought it in when he came back from college. He had been exposed, but he never had a single symptom. He came back on a Thursday, and my Monday my oldest had gotten it. It's either that or the oldest from work.

We are very thankful that we have managed to avoid the worst of the cases. The recovery isn't fast though. Even yesterday I still didn't feel right. We all are way more fatigued than normal and shaking the cough has been hard.

Glad y'all are getting better. Hope the recovery continues smoothly!

I am so glad. Great to hear.

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Yay PM and family!

Count me as one of the COVID patients. I think I started a post here before I didn't finish it, but it's been a crazy ride. Got back from out of town during Thanksgiving. Work up Tuesday, the 1st with a fever. Went in and got tested. Results back last Thursday as COVID positive. Wife tested positive and has been asymptomatic ever since. First five days, had fever, chills, aches, fatigue, slight loss of smell, slight cough, diarrhea, pretty much everything but loss of smell and breathing issues. Fast forward to Tuesday and I was monitoring my oxygen levels and they were hovering around 90, so I went down to urgent care and had a pretty bad coughing fit. They sent me to the ER where I waited for about three hours before I received a room. They gave me oxygen and admitted me about 930 on Tuesday. Wife is freaked out at this point because the stories about going to the hospital and never coming back weighed on her mind. Oxygen helped, had a rough night being monitored but most of my sytems were going away other than breathing. Went to get up and go to the bathroom and nearly passed out there due to shortness of breath. Really scariest moment of my life. Discharged last night, but going to have to be on oxygen for 2-3 weeks hile my breathing stabilizes. Definitely not out of the woods, but it does feel like I'm in the back half of recovery. Getting hospitalized for this is something that I never imagined happening, but it happened anyways.

Looks like I did post, Oops! Hopefully this is a little more insight into what I went through!

Edit - Pilotman did and others saw my facebook! Glad you guys were watching out for me!

Good to see you Bug.

Good to see you got the help you needed Bug, lets hope for a speedy recovery

Count me as one of the COVID patients. I think I started a post here before I didn't finish it, but it's been a crazy ride. Got back from out of town during Thanksgiving. Work up Tuesday, the 1st with a fever. Went in and got tested. Results back last Thursday as COVID positive. Wife tested positive and has been asymptomatic ever since. First five days, had fever, chills, aches, fatigue, slight loss of smell, slight cough, diarrhea, pretty much everything but loss of smell and breathing issues. Fast forward to Tuesday and I was monitoring my oxygen levels and they were hovering around 90, so I went down to urgent care and had a pretty bad coughing fit. They sent me to the ER where I waited for about three hours before I received a room. They gave me oxygen and admitted me about 930 on Tuesday. Wife is freaked out at this point because the stories about going to the hospital and never coming back weighed on her mind. Oxygen helped, had a rough night being monitored but most of my sytems were going away other than breathing. Went to get up and go to the bathroom and nearly passed out there due to shortness of breath. Really scariest moment of my life. Discharged last night, but going to have to be on oxygen for 2-3 weeks hile my breathing stabilizes. Definitely not out of the woods, but it does feel like I'm in the back half of recovery. Getting hospitalized for this is something that I never imagined happening, but it happened anyways.

Good you are doing better.

Question - did they give you any of the fancy therapeutics or just oxygen and monitored you?

Great to see you back around these parts buddy!

FOFC has our rally caps on. Glad to see things turning around for our posters and their families.

My wife's father just got diagnosed yesterday. They live in Kansas, and his wife won't wear a mask. Had a big Thanksgiving get-together with about 30 people, including two who were known to have coronavirus. Smart plan. Needless to say, my wife is pissed at her stepmother.

Good you are doing better.

Question - did they give you any of the fancy therapeutics or just oxygen and monitored you?

Just oxygen from the tank. Took one home and have oxygen at the house as well.

My dad had a co-worker (and good friend) who was out with "the flu." He didn't want to get tested, but finally decided to earlier this week. The friend was feeling better, so he was back at work today, where he and my dad work closely together. Probably not always wearing masks, just because they both hate them.

This afternoon his (the co-worker's) test came back positive.

I have no words right now for the idiocy involved here.

Dola - this is the same work environment where a DIFFERENT co-worker already tested positive and had already had close contact with several of their employees, leading my dad to be COVID tested yesterday.

Just oxygen from the tank. Took one home and have oxygen at the house as well.

You didn't get the special antibody treatment? Weird!

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/09/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-treatments.html

Also glad you are doing better. Just not knowing where things are headed has to be terrifying.

So I worked the clock st s freshman basketball game tonight. The visiting coacj wore his mask around his nose and our AD did not cover his nose. We are a mask must be worn district, but admin isnt. So much craziness.

We are much better in Spain and seems the second wave is going down... but now we have the Christmas. Everybody will visit and have dinners with family despite the rules, because hey, we are latins, we love party and family and freedom and rules are for the others, not for me! We will relax measures, etc and January the third and hope the last big wave will hit us harder than the second, as it happened with the second after a relaxed summer.

Pure darwinism I'd say, I have lost the faith in governments and people.

Good to hear you are doing better, Bug. I know when my b-i-l went into the hospital, it terrified us. Glad you are battling it out.

Of course this happens in Yuma, home of Batshit crazy GOP chairwoman Dr. Kelli Ward.

'A slap in the face': Arizona ER doctor fired after talking about severity of COVID-19 pandemic (https://www.yahoo.com/news/slap-face-arizona-hospital-fires-160537298.html)

Youngest, who successfully came off his epilepsy medication this year (after 3 years seizure free), who got his driver's license, who is dual enrolled in college for his Senior year, who has overcome Covid, now looks like he's got some post-covid syndrome symptoms. He's been quite tired, but can't sleep more than a couple hours, chest pains, dizzy spells, foggy mind. Poor kid has been through a lot. He's carrying a lot of anxiety, wants a clear answer as to what is going on, he's scared. His pediatrician cancelled an appointment today because he didn't think there was much they could do to help and said we should go to the ER. He's not in ER level distress, and we explained to our son that they are only going to treat his symptoms, which we can do, and that they don't know enough to be able to 'fix' it. It's a difficult situation.

My daughter is having a rapid test tonight. Two people in her office tested positive, and now she can't taste or smell anything.

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Youngest, who successfully came off his epilepsy medication this year (after 3 years seizure free), who got his driver's license, who is dual enrolled in college for his Senior year, who has overcome Covid, now looks like he's got some post-covid syndrome symptoms. He's been quite tired, but can't sleep more than a couple hours, chest pains, dizzy spells, foggy mind. Poor kid has been through a lot. He's carrying a lot of anxiety, wants a clear answer as to what is going on, he's scared. His pediatrician cancelled an appointment today because he didn't think there was much they could do to help and said we should go to the ER. He's not in ER level distress, and we explained to our son that they are only going to treat his symptoms, which we can do, and that they don't know enough to be able to 'fix' it. It's a difficult situation.

There's definitely more that the right Department/Specialist can do. Covid19 is especially pesky, but longterm issues and need for 'rehabilitation' isn't unique to it but an issue with many viral infections including the flu. And there is definitely stuff that ought to be checked out. Which is not meant to alarm, but there's often more to it than outward symptoms.
I find it pretty shocking the doctor's bestest and onliest idea was the ER and not even doing some basic diagnosis. That being said: People at the ER might know where to turn within the hospital system. I doubt very much you'd be the first they find asking that question.

Hope it works out well and fast and he gets well soon.

Sorry to hear of everyone's challenges right now.

My best wishes to everyone and hope you guys & family get over this.

Crap. She tested positive. She has been home the last few days since her birthday was last weekend. This is not good.

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God bless, Grant. Best wishes to her.

Best of luck to her and your family.

Not sure if this was reported in MSM earlier re: Feb conference but I didn't know about it. Also pretty cool (and scary) how they are able to essentially do contact tracing with the "genetic fingerprinting".

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/11/health/superspreader-covid-boston-biotech-conference/index.html
A biotech conference in Boston last February that's already been flagged as a Covid-19 superspreading event led to at least 245,000 other cases across the US and Europe, a new genetic fingerprinting study shows.

One single case seems to have been responsible for many of the other eventual cases, the team at the Broad Institute in Massachusetts reported.
Their study finds two particular genetic fingerprints of viruses associated with the conference and then tracks those lineages across the US. One "was exported from Boston to at least 18 US states as well as to other countries, including Australia, Sweden, and Slovakia," the team, led by Bronwyn MacInnis, director of pathogen genomic surveillance at the Broad Institute, wrote in the journal Science.
:
:
It's hard to document a superspreading event. Researchers must show that people were infected and in contact with one another. When tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people are involved, it's almost impossible.

But genetic fingerprinting makes it possible. The Broad team used databases of the virus to track these individual changes, known as single nucleotide polymorphisms or SNPs (pronounced "snips).

Youngest, who successfully came off his epilepsy medication this year (after 3 years seizure free), who got his driver's license, who is dual enrolled in college for his Senior year, who has overcome Covid, now looks like he's got some post-covid syndrome symptoms. He's been quite tired, but can't sleep more than a couple hours, chest pains, dizzy spells, foggy mind. Poor kid has been through a lot. He's carrying a lot of anxiety, wants a clear answer as to what is going on, he's scared. His pediatrician cancelled an appointment today because he didn't think there was much they could do to help and said we should go to the ER. He's not in ER level distress, and we explained to our son that they are only going to treat his symptoms, which we can do, and that they don't know enough to be able to 'fix' it. It's a difficult situation.

I spent a good part of the day in the ER today. The boy woke up with vision issues and he really started escalating from there. We knew that his major symptoms were stuff we could manage, but he's also 17, and he needs to have some faith that we do know what we're doing. However, it was just one thing too much, and it was hard to argue against him. He ended up getting an IV with some pain meds for headaches, and an upper GI cocktail to control some of his stomach pain. All his tests and xrays came back normal, and he got to talk with the doctor for a while. He was reassured that he was ok, that he will be ok, that he won't be in danger at this point from the Covid, that the medication that we are giving him will be the best for him, and he left feeling much better about everything. The vision issues were stemming from a migraine style headache, that he's never had before. The rest is still just post-covid symptoms that they felt would take another couple weeks to resolve.

As a dad, this was a very hard choice. His mom and I could have argued that we know best, and that we are doing what we know is best for him, but at his age, it's hard to argue that he can't have a say in what is best for him. The bill is going to suck, but we have pretty good insurance, and are fortunate to have a little money to cover it. I think though, that we earned some teenager respect (which we aren't short on) and he got the information helped relieve his anxiety.

Another interesting website. Essentially tracking vaccine pre-purchases by country and the discrepancies between the haves and have nots.

COVID-19 | Launch and Scale Speedometer (https://launchandscalefaster.org/COVID-19)
9.6 BILLION DOSES ARE ALREADY RESERVED, EVEN BEFORE ANY CANDIDATES ARE ON THE MARKET

Despite this public commitment to equity, individual countries are incentivized to purchase as many vaccine doses (and from as wide a pool of candidates) as possible in order to increase their chances of covering their population. Before any vaccine candidates are even approved for market, confirmed purchases cover 7.2 billion doses, with another 2.4 billion doses currently under negotiation or reserved as optional expansions of existing deals.
https://launchandscalefaster.org/sites/default/files/inline-images/COVID-19%20AMCs%20by%20Country_0.png

I see Indonesia and Brazil. I think they are participating in China's trials so this chart does include that vaccine(s).

It also shows the US with approx $1B in confirmed vaccine doses purchases. With a population of 330M x 2 doses max = 660M, this seems like overkill especially when also including "potential dose purchases" for a total of 2.6B does. My guess is US was hedging across the top 2-3 drugs (at least) and hence the overbought no. In a situation like this, no one will complain much about wasting money.

I am surprised that SA, Qatar, Kuwait are seemingly left out? You would think the richer countries could get access to the vaccines early.

I spent a good part of the day in the ER today. The boy woke up with vision issues and he really started escalating from there. We knew that his major symptoms were stuff we could manage, but he's also 17, and he needs to have some faith that we do know what we're doing. However, it was just one thing too much, and it was hard to argue against him. He ended up getting an IV with some pain meds for headaches, and an upper GI cocktail to control some of his stomach pain. All his tests and xrays came back normal, and he got to talk with the doctor for a while. He was reassured that he was ok, that he will be ok, that he won't be in danger at this point from the Covid, that the medication that we are giving him will be the best for him, and he left feeling much better about everything. The vision issues were stemming from a migraine style headache, that he's never had before. The rest is still just post-covid symptoms that they felt would take another couple weeks to resolve.

As a dad, this was a very hard choice. His mom and I could have argued that we know best, and that we are doing what we know is best for him, but at his age, it's hard to argue that he can't have a say in what is best for him. The bill is going to suck, but we have pretty good insurance, and are fortunate to have a little money to cover it. I think though, that we earned some teenager respect (which we aren't short on) and he got the information helped relieve his anxiety.
You did the right thing, and I am glad it was no more than that. It is a scary disease, and sometimes the mental part of it is as hard as the physical.
My daughter is having headaches/body-aches and general nausea. Her breathing is rough, but so far not unlike what she normal deals with a winter cough (she is asthmatic, so any chest congestion is usually bad). She never leaves her room without a mask, and her mom has been bringing her food.
Neither of our work is going to let us quarantine. We are disposable, er I mean, essential workers. My wife's doctor/boss called her last night and said she should stay home, then at 10 O'clock last night asked her to come in this afternoon to set her area up for the week, then take a rapid test. If it is negative, she is supposed to work. So, instead she actually having my wife work more, and come expose others even though if she tests negative today she could be positive any time next week.
I work mostly outside, so I am not as likely to expose co-workers or customers. I will just do drive through and curb side for lunches. I have 4 big co-morbities, so that is the biggest worry. Our house is too small to be isolated. There is next to no chance that if my wife gets it, that I will not get it.

I feel for you Grant. I mean, her boss shouldn't be asking that. They should be keeping her home until she's either negative and your daughter isn't contagious anymore. We didn't try to change anything in our home, and it was pretty clear that everyone was going to be sick. By the time it even looked like it might be Covid, everyone had been exposed and was feeling something. I hope that she comes through it without feeling too awful.

My wife is 2 weeks past her initial symptoms and is still exhausted. She's up for a bit, back to bed, all day long, still dealing with sore throat and congestion.

This is why a liability shield for COVID is awful. These exact stupid situations.

We all know what the right thing to do is, but we're not allowed to do them.

SI

Looks like 2Q for the regular folks.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/13/health/covid-vaccine-rollout-messy/index.html
Operation Warp Speed chief adviser Moncef Slaoui has projected Pfizer and Moderna together can make and deliver 60 million to 70 million vaccines in January, and hopes two other vaccines makers, AstraZeneca and Johnson & Johnson, will join the mix of authorized vaccines in the coming months.

"We can immunize 20 million in December, 30 million in January, 50 million in February," Slaoui said at the White House Tuesday. But he doesn't project having vaccinated the full population until June.
My wife would fall under 1b. I guess me and the kids would fall in group 2.

ACIP member Dr. Robert Atmar, a professor of infectious diseases at Baylor College of Medicine, said ACIP will likely put essential workers into group 1b. "That would include teachers, people in law enforcement, firefighters and a variety of other groups, and then 1c would be persons with underlying conditions who had higher risk of developing complications or dying should they get Covid-19 and that would include persons over the age of 65," he said.

They'll be lucky if it's not closer to September before they have enough vaccinated.

Given the timeline for the two injections, vaccinating the WH staff first is pretty much bullshit.

Given the timeline for the two injections, vaccinating the WH staff first is pretty much bullshit.

There's people in the WH that didn't already get infected ? ;)

On that point, are people who already got it going to get the vaccine? Eventually, you can get it again from what I understand. So by June I expect that even Covid positives from 2020 would need to get the vaccine, right?

They'll be lucky if it's not closer to September before they have enough vaccinated.

Yeah I don’t believe anything out this administration. Azar on TV this morning saying by end of March regular folks can walk into a Walgreens or CVS and get the vaccine like the flu vaccine. Sorry but does anyone believe that based on this administrations track record? I would say yeah that might happen March 2022. I am hoping my wife a public school teacher and my 90 year old mother can get the vaccine by August. As for me and my five teen age kids by Thanksgiving 2021. We should have reasonable expectations.

Not good news... 1000 cases of a new variant of the virus here

Trying to link to the BBC story, but been having problems posting links for a while without taking up the whole screen...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55308211

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/14/health/home-covid-hotspot-study-wellness/index.html

Hey, remember for a few minutes in the summer when there were a handful of studies that were like "family transmission isn't terribly high" "or surprisingly rare" or whatever? Unsurprisingly, when we look closer at it, that is not the case and, frankly, never it really intuitively made sense.

In my mind, we generally don't quite understand the "how" of the virus but we understand the "what". It's a black box - we understand the outputs and inputs but we don't understand the exact mechanism. Viral load seems to matter a huge deal so duration and density of exposure are the major factors. Being older and/or with comorbidities exacerbate the illness significantly... but that's true of most illnesses. However, it's unlike the flu in that the old and the young are particularly vulnerable - more the old.

Remember how, at first, kids were not going to die. And then they did.

The airline industry keeps touting a study or two about how it's really safe to fly right now. Only, all that I've seen have been funded by industry groups and, again, it doesn't intuitively make sense with what was know about the disease.

Opening schools is really safe? C'mon, we know better. Any parents with kids will tell you how kids catch every illness under the sun and spread them around at school. There's no reason to think COVID would be any different. And, again, anyone with kids knows how well different age groups of kids will follow different sets of instructions like wearing masks and keeping socially distant.

That's not to say there aren't/won't be odd little quirks to the illness. But I've just been really skeptical of every time a study comes out that says it behaves significantly different than we think it should. We're past the point where we should be acting like we don't understand many of the major facets of this illness.

SI

I spent a good part of the day in the ER today. The boy woke up with vision issues and he really started escalating from there. We knew that his major symptoms were stuff we could manage, but he's also 17, and he needs to have some faith that we do know what we're doing. However, it was just one thing too much, and it was hard to argue against him. He ended up getting an IV with some pain meds for headaches, and an upper GI cocktail to control some of his stomach pain. All his tests and xrays came back normal, and he got to talk with the doctor for a while. He was reassured that he was ok, that he will be ok, that he won't be in danger at this point from the Covid, that the medication that we are giving him will be the best for him, and he left feeling much better about everything. The vision issues were stemming from a migraine style headache, that he's never had before. The rest is still just post-covid symptoms that they felt would take another couple weeks to resolve.

As a dad, this was a very hard choice. His mom and I could have argued that we know best, and that we are doing what we know is best for him, but at his age, it's hard to argue that he can't have a say in what is best for him. The bill is going to suck, but we have pretty good insurance, and are fortunate to have a little money to cover it. I think though, that we earned some teenager respect (which we aren't short on) and he got the information helped relieve his anxiety.

Back to the Doctor today with testicular pain that started late Saturday. There's no way that this is related to Covid, right? Good news is that it's not torsion. I was fully prepared to spend the rest of the day back at the hospital, but it wasn't that. It is indeed related, and can last for 3 months. He is really frustrated with all this. Next up is an ultrasound on his balls to make sure that he's got good flow. His doctor expects it to be fine, but needs to be totally sure. He said that my son is the 3rd case of this he's seen, but nobody else in his Dr group has had one. Typically it's with the worst cases, but my son seems to have really stepped out of the typical results here. He's down in the tenths of percent of total cases.

Back to the Doctor today with testicular pain that started late Saturday. There's no way that this is related to Covid, right? Good news is that it's not torsion. I was fully prepared to spend the rest of the day back at the hospital, but it wasn't that. It is indeed related, and can last for 3 months. He is really frustrated with all this. Next up is an ultrasound on his balls to make sure that he's got good flow. His doctor expects it to be fine, but needs to be totally sure. He said that my son is the 3rd case of this he's seen, but nobody else in his Dr group has had one. Typically it's with the worst cases, but my son seems to have really stepped out of the typical results here. He's down in the tenths of percent of total cases.
Poor guy. That is not where you want pain.

His mood must be absolute shit. Best wishes for him, and you by extension.

Yikes. Sorry to hear that PM :(.

Back to the Doctor today with testicular pain that started late Saturday. There's no way that this is related to Covid, right? Good news is that it's not torsion. I was fully prepared to spend the rest of the day back at the hospital, but it wasn't that. It is indeed related, and can last for 3 months. He is really frustrated with all this. Next up is an ultrasound on his balls to make sure that he's got good flow. His doctor expects it to be fine, but needs to be totally sure. He said that my son is the 3rd case of this he's seen, but nobody else in his Dr group has had one. Typically it's with the worst cases, but my son seems to have really stepped out of the typical results here. He's down in the tenths of percent of total cases.

Sorry to hear him going through this.

Yes, I would never have thought it was related. Pretty weird.

Woke up this morning with symptoms. And of course Gmail was down right when I need to notify the principal. So I also called it in. Spoke to healthcare folks. They're marking me as presumed positive due to transportation issues to get tested. A mobile unit is coming to town Friday so I'll hike over and get tested then.

Mandatory 10 day quarantine and trying to navigate the paperwork needed since I'm going to teach from home unless I reach a point where I have to be hospitalized.

Sorry, Izulde. Hope everything goes well.

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On that point, are people who already got it going to get the vaccine? Eventually, you can get it again from what I understand. So by June I expect that even Covid positives from 2020 would need to get the vaccine, right?

It's unknown as of yet how long either immunity 'version' (infection or vaccine) actually lasts for the majority. Just because there are confirmed reinfectionss doesn't mean it won't last quite a bit longer for the vast majority. On the flipside, the fact that reinfections are rare also doesn't guarantee it won't happen more often in a few months. Immunology is devilishly complex from what i understand (or not understand). So far the consensus is that it will fall somewhere between looooooong term immunity (the first SARS patients still are most likely immune) and a somewhat 'cycle' type thing.
It definitely is not a flu situation as some allude to on social media, simply because the issues with the flu are ones that aren't aplicable here (Flu is actually a varity of different viruses and disctinctly different 'sub-strains' that also change rather rapidly from season to season). Which again does not mean there aren't other factors at play. Just that whatever will turn out to be the case, it's not a "well, just look at flu" thing.

Here the question isn't wether the virus side of things changes too much, but if the immune systems reaction is creating enough of a protection for long lasting immunity. And if it does, the question is wether it protects against re-infection or 'only' against illness, meaning it'll be less severe the 2nd and 3rd time around. Where again a few counter-examples of people having a worse reaction don't mean that isn't the case for the vast majority. There's hardly ever any "always" with immunology or health in general.

And the vaccines come with pretty much the same caveats. They are designed to get the body to follow a certain 'playbook', but it's not foolproof. And the longevity itself, while not so rarely actually being longer from vaccination than infection (think of a vaccine as a pretend-infection optimized for the best outcome), still can't be pinpointed any better simply because the reference point from infections isn't there.

in short, i doubt there will be a "no vaccine for infected persons" formula, but on the other hand also not much harm if skipped for now. Especially if they still show antibodies (which of course i don't know if there are plans to provide that information via testing). Considering likely some 75% or more never get diagnosed, more in spring than now, there will be plenty who get both (and no, that's not a problem).

Man Izulde, very sorry to hear that. (((big hug)))

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/14/health/home-covid-hotspot-study-wellness/index.html

Hey, remember for a few minutes in the summer when there were a handful of studies that were like "family transmission isn't terribly high" "or surprisingly rare" or whatever? Unsurprisingly, when we look closer at it, that is not the case and, frankly, never it really intuitively made sense.

In my mind, we generally don't quite understand the "how" of the virus but we understand the "what". It's a black box - we understand the outputs and inputs but we don't understand the exact mechanism. Viral load seems to matter a huge deal so duration and density of exposure are the major factors. Being older and/or with comorbidities exacerbate the illness significantly... but that's true of most illnesses. However, it's unlike the flu in that the old and the young are particularly vulnerable - more the old.

Remember how, at first, kids were not going to die. And then they did.

The airline industry keeps touting a study or two about how it's really safe to fly right now. Only, all that I've seen have been funded by industry groups and, again, it doesn't intuitively make sense with what was know about the disease.

Opening schools is really safe? C'mon, we know better. Any parents with kids will tell you how kids catch every illness under the sun and spread them around at school. There's no reason to think COVID would be any different. And, again, anyone with kids knows how well different age groups of kids will follow different sets of instructions like wearing masks and keeping socially distant.

That's not to say there aren't/won't be odd little quirks to the illness. But I've just been really skeptical of every time a study comes out that says it behaves significantly different than we think it should. We're past the point where we should be acting like we don't understand many of the major facets of this illness.

SI

I find it fascinating how media makes a narrative fresh again by choosing different numbers and assigning new meaning or combining vastly different study designs for an article Because the comprehensive META study basically bang on consolidates the earlier estimates. We always knew homes are 'hotspots' but the numbers also were surprisingly low. Which never meant "non-existant" but simply not high enough to explain the amount of spread.

And with kids the fact remains, that it spreads less than expected when comparing it to other viruses, to them and from them. It's just that nuance is a lost art and people want it to be all or nothing. With an Influenzavirus keeping schools open would be impossible, with this it is justified to at least try und n tandem with keeping transmissions lowiah in general. Unfortunately that part has proven nigh impossible without a heavy hand. But this remains the problem, not schools properly monitored and managed (of course not simply doing business as normal, that's daft) somehow kickstarting things.

I think we know this already but reinforcing the "light at the end of the tunnel" news - regular people probably Mar-Apr-May.

I won't be surprised if the roll-out is faster and early part of that timeline. A focused President should be able to do wonders.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/14/covid-vaccine-cvs-walgreens-early-spring.html
In interviews with CNBC, Walgreens and CVS Health officials said they expect to give shots to the general public starting in the early spring.
:
Chris Cox, a senior vice president of CVS, said he hopes the company can give the vaccine at its drugstores “somewhere in the April/May timeframe.”

Two prominent public health officials — Dr. Anthony Fauci, White House coronavirus advisor, and Dr. Ashish Jha, dean of Brown University School of Public Health — both said Monday that they expect healthy Americans who don’t qualify for a vaccine due to their job or health condition to start getting the vaccine by late March or April.

I'm supposed to do some traveling to plan a potential cross country move in May/June, the timing will be perfect it would appear.

So our county (Dekalb, GA) decided while cases are spiking higher than it's been, it's a GREAT time to open schools. So the plan is for teachers to go back January 4 and then students go back two weeks later. They used to have a cases per 100k standard, but they've decided to discard that because they are waaaay too far from meeting that standard.

Our hospital starts vaccinating staff tomorrow. No word on a schedule or where our IT department will fall in line.

Our hospital starts vaccinating staff tomorrow. No word on a schedule or where our IT department will fall in line.

Let us know how it goes (and any side effects) !

Spent way too much time today looking at the COVID tracking project website. Based on current cases per 1MM people, the SE / Texas are among the lowest rates while the NE / MW are the bigger hot spots. Based on mask-wearing and public policy that surprised me. Do we think that is mostly driven by weather and increased indoor contact or just randomness of the virus?

Spent way too much time today looking at the COVID tracking project website. Based on current cases per 1MM people, the SE / Texas are among the lowest rates while the NE / MW are the bigger hot spots. Based on mask-wearing and public policy that surprised me. Do we think that is mostly driven by weather and increased indoor contact or just randomness of the virus?

https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/weekly-average-of-daily-new-covid-19-positive-cases/
Texas and the SE got hammered hard in the 2nd wave (if we're counting March as the 1st, Summer as the 2nd, and now as the 3rd). We've been heading back up for the last month but it seems like other places were ahead of our pace early on. I think our worst months are going to be January and February while I think maybe some of the other parts of the country are cresting now.

https://www.tmc.edu/coronavirus-updates/weekly-average-of-covid-19-testing-metrics-across-tmc-hospital-systems/
That said, I think we're at a fraction of cases we were at then. We were running at an insane 20%+ on tests back then so we were badly under-counting cases.

I think people did modify their behavior here a bit back in June or July. But it's been back to "normal" for a while now so I'm not sure why it's taking until now to start ramping back up.

Maybe the weather is a significant factor - either physically or socially (more people indoors). It's been posited but I haven't seen a great conclusive study as to why.

SI

We're back into semi-lockdown for 5 weeks. "Black Friday" will forever be about the rise of COVID-19 deaths and the second lockdown of 2020. What non-sense is it to have people cheer while having no frickin' clue why they brought over a should be unique to the USA tradition, which gets widely frauded with by yanking up prices 33% a week earlier to be able to claim to give 25% off.

How can someone be a nurse 9 months into a pandemic and still be "politically motivated" to refuse a vaccine?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dr. Joseph Varon, chief of critical care at Houston Memorial Medical Center, tells NPR that half of his nurses won't take the COVID vaccine for 'political' reasons:<br><br>&quot;Most of the reasons that most of my people don’t want to get the vaccine are politically-motivated.&quot;</p>&mdash; Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) <a href="https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1339284159005601794?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 16, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

What are they worried about politically? That the numbers might go down and that would benefit Biden?

The country is split. Half want the virus to continue to infect people and the other half doesn't. No need to make it more confusing than it is.

How can someone be a nurse 9 months into a pandemic and still be "politically motivated" to refuse a vaccine?

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Dr. Joseph Varon, chief of critical care at Houston Memorial Medical Center, tells NPR that half of his nurses won't take the COVID vaccine for 'political' reasons:<br><br>&quot;Most of the reasons that most of my people don’t want to get the vaccine are politically-motivated.&quot;</p>&mdash; Kyle Griffin (@kylegriffin1) <a href="https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1339284159005601794?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 16, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>5 days ago I was in a store to grab something real quick. I saw only two people without a mask, one was wearing an RN badge from the local hospital.

What are they worried about politically? That the numbers might go down and that would benefit Biden?I know one nurse who isn't getting it because, well, it might make her look like a liberal. For some it's as basic as "my tribe isn't afraid of coronavirus, and my tribal identity is the most important identity I have."

Yeah, I guess that's it. F reality, I am more concerned with being true to Trump/GOP than I am to my patients.

As I've said before, there are people I know in the medical profession, work in ERs, etc. who think the whole mask thing is absurd, have no plan to take the vaccine, etc. For some of them it isn't political, they believe the long-term older studies about mask effectiveness, don't buy the newer vaccine tech being used here, think it's too much of a rush, etc. Medical professionals.

There's a real divide here.

As I've said before, there are people I know in the medical profession, work in ERs, etc. who think the whole mask thing is absurd, have no plan to take the vaccine, etc. For some of them it isn't political, they believe the long-term older studies about mask effectiveness, don't buy the newer vaccine tech being used here, think it's too much of a rush, etc. Medical professionals.

There's a real divide here.Agree 100%. Both groups most definitely exist.

Even though both groups exist there is one of those two groups that is substantially larger, and newer to the entire argument against masks. Besides, all the people who are holding onto the old study that was published have ignored subsequent studies related, and instead of looking for the best answers are picking and choosing what is convenient for them.

Like the guy I flew with who based his entire point of view on the 'hoax' of global warming because he'd been flying over Siberia for 15 years and nothing had ever changed, therefore 'hoax'.

As I've said before, there are people I know in the medical profession, work in ERs, etc. who think the whole mask thing is absurd, have no plan to take the vaccine, etc. For some of them it isn't political, they believe the long-term older studies about mask effectiveness, don't buy the newer vaccine tech being used here, think it's too much of a rush, etc. Medical professionals.

There's a real divide here.

That is why I asked about the specific group that said it was political. The people you are describing all seem to have non political reasons. I may agree or disagree with the reasoning but I do understand for the most part. That divide makes sense to me. I don’t understand not taking the vaccine because it may make them look like a liberal.

I think Ben summed it up - being accepted by their tribe matters more.

I also think social media has allowed us to be so open about our beliefs to so many people that its harder to change your opinion/belief when you've been so vocal one way to so many people. When it was just you and your nuclear family and maybe a few people at work, it's a lot easier to flip on a position when you get more facts or are confronted with reality. But now, the embarrassment of admitting you got duped is too great, so these people are doubling down on these positions, to the point of believing misinformation and lies. And it's easy to do, because you can find support for literally ANY position and that justifies it.

As I've said before, there are people I know in the medical profession, work in ERs, etc. who think the whole mask thing is absurd, have no plan to take the vaccine, etc. For some of them it isn't political, they believe the long-term older studies about mask effectiveness, don't buy the newer vaccine tech being used here, think it's too much of a rush, etc. Medical professionals.

There's a real divide here.

Not really. Most of those people are complete morons and in the minority.

I can maybe see young people being wary of the vaccine for awhile till it's been tested more. Anyone over 50 though is an imbecile for not getting it.

Even if you don't believe in science and think masks are ineffective, there is no harm in wearing them. It's like using a blinker at a light when there are no cars around.

I know one nurse who isn't getting it because, well, it might make her look like a liberal. For some it's as basic as "my tribe isn't afraid of coronavirus, and my tribal identity is the most important identity I have."

What is there to be done then? If we get to a point where everyone who wants the vaccine can actually get it...? I mean, at a certain point don't you just have to shrug and let them do what they want, consequences be damned? Go ahead, kill yourself tilting at windmills all you like.

Problem is it’s relatively unlikely they go ahead and kill themselves but they may well still kill somebody at risk given all the vaccines are somewhere south of 95% effective.

So they can still stop us getting to herd immunity which means things still can’t get back to normal - which ironically is completely counterintuitive to their overall goals. But can’t let the snowflake libtard virus win or something.

As I've said before, there are people I know in the medical profession, work in ERs, etc. who think the whole mask thing is absurd, have no plan to take the vaccine, etc. For some of them it isn't political, they believe the long-term older studies about mask effectiveness, don't buy the newer vaccine tech being used here, think it's too much of a rush, etc. Medical professionals.

There's a real divide here.

I think it's perfectly okay for some not to want to take it right away and yeah, taking it gives me a little pause as there has not been any long term studies and it is new tech. But the pros outweigh the cons.

I have no problems taking it in Mar+. But unsure if I really want to take it in in Dec (but reserve the right to change my mind).

Re: healthcare professionals, I was not able to find a poll. As of Nov, there was a poll that said about 65-35% would take it. My guess (and hope) is healthcare professionals will be much less than 35%.

As for masks, not sure what the study is but how could it not help lessen the spread, even some?

Here's are the categories of people who should/not take it (at least for now).

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/16/health/who-should-and-shouldnt-get-covid-19-vaccine/index.html

Oliver Stone says he's taken Russian coronavirus vaccine | TheHill (https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/in-the-know/530476-oliver-stone-says-hes-taken-russian-coronavirus-vaccine)

Well, and the vaccines are guaranteed to kill some people. Everything carries risk with it. But the risks from not taking the vaccine far, far outweigh the stories about them killing people. Those stories are going to be the headlines on many news leads, but it's not going to focus the story. Instead it'll be how someone got sick, died, and how the vaccines are now suddenly unsafe. Then there will be lawsuits, and a shitload of negative coverage. Guaranteed. But you know, if we don't have any vaccines instead of a few thousand who might die, it'll be a few hundred thousand more who die without it.

Well, this isn't the first group of people that Brian claims to know an entire set of, that isn't represented by a single person here or a single person known by anybody here. Do all these medical professionals come from the Reason.com comments, by any chance?

People who tried to spread the virus should not be first in line for a vaccine.

COVID-19 the leading cause of death for US police officers in 2020 (https://nypost.com/2020/09/03/covid-19-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-us-police-officers-in-2020/amp/?__twitter_impression=true)

Problem is it’s relatively unlikely they go ahead and kill themselvesBingo. This is a 30something in great physical condition and I don’t believe her to have any comorbidities. Odds are if she gets it, she’s fine in a few days. Just a combination of selfishness and overly tribal identity—neither of which are uncommon traits in our society.

I have a sister and brother that are RN's. I have 2 SIL that are RN's. I have a BIL that is an OBGYN. Of that group, one said they would not take it anytime soon. I don't view this relative as crazy or irrational, just a different way of assessing risks vs benefits.

So yeah, they exist.

With vaccines having a 95% success rate ... if I take the vaccine, how can I find out if I'm in the 95%? Is it a measure of antibodies?

Roll 2d10

Roll 2d10

3d6 actually

Roll 2d10

This board needs a like button.

Well, this isn't the first group of people that Brian claims to know an entire set of, that isn't represented by a single person here or a single person known by anybody here. Do all these medical professionals come from the Reason.com comments, by any chance?

Why does the first part surprise you in the slightest? Sports sim games don't exactly represent the majority of the populace. As has been demonstrated repeatedly, this board doesn't represent America proportionally in many ways, not the least of which is opinion on politics, the coronavirus, etc. It would be far more shocking if people on here didn't know others who were different from what's reflected on the board.

I'm talking about people I've served at church with. People I've sang with. People who I know the names of their children, where they live, people who trusted me and I them with personal information I wouldn't share on this board. People who have helped me through crises in my life and whose character I hold in high esteem for the most part, with full justification.

Not that it's the slightest bit relevant, but I don't frequent Reason.com.

Even if you don't believe in science and think masks are ineffective, there is no harm in wearing them. It's like using a blinker at a light when there are no cars around.

Not necessarily. Mask use can contribute to other health problems, and that's before you get into other factors like contributing to lemming-like behavior, reinforcing panic, the political aspects regarding government control, etc. If someone believes that masks are ineffective, I don't think it's at all a stretch to go from there to think doing so is harmful. If I thought they were ineffective (I don't, as discussed many times), I wouldn't wear them.

not sure what the study is but how could it not help lessen the spread, even some?

There are lots of potential reasons. One would be masks themselves spreading by getting contaminated by virus and helping spread it, not being cleaned often enough or properly disposed of, people relying on the mask instead of social distancing, masks not actually being effective in preventing the spread of droplets, etc.

One of the issues that often comes up is that the studies showing transmission mitigation often are measuring large droplets, whereas the argument is made based on studies such as Yang 2011, Balazy 2006, Yezli and Otter 2011, etc. that smaller particles than even a N95 mask is capable of filtering out are responsible for most disease transmission. A number of studies backing this up show no improvement in N95 vs. normal surgical masks in influenza transmission, etc. A representative statement is this:

It would be a paradox if masks and respirators worked, given what we know about viral respiratory diseases: The main transmission path is long-residence-time aerosol particles (< 2.5 μm), which are too fine to be blocked, and the minimum-infective dose is smaller than one aerosol particle.

I'm not saying they are right about this, I think there's a strong and convincing scientific consensus for mask-wearing, I've been in favor of most of the restrictions enacted to date so far, etc. At the same time though, it's not at all a stretch and a worthwhile exercise in unity and empathy to understand how people can come to the conclusion that this consensus may be more fear-based than rational, view it as an overreaction, desire to just do something in order to be seen as doing something rather than assess correctly, etc. It's not a case of wanting the vaccine, masking, etc. if you believe in science. Some believe in science and that's why they're against those things. Not everyone who is scientifically minded is going to search out and thoroughly personally read stuff debunking people like Rancourt. Some will just see something confirming their presuppositions and be done with it - and of course that's a phenomenon definitely shared by a certain number on the other side of the issue as well.

Watching my extended family all post in the Facebook Christmas party group just seems so strange.

It isn't like there are long screeds about the fake pandemic or MUH FREEDUMS.

There is just a complete and utter non-acknowledgement of it. Everyone is going to come in (some from out of town), bring a covered dish, and cram next to each other for 4 hours.

I was talking to my daughters Girl Scout troop leader yesterday who is a doctor. She said she has tons of sick patients and every single one of them went to a large thanksgiving gathering.

Fantastic idea. I hope it comes to fruition.

NFL plans to invite vaccinated healthcare workers to Super Bowl LV, Roger Goodell says in memo (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-plans-to-invite-vaccinated-healthcare-workers-to-super-bowl-lv-roger-goodell-says-in-memo/)

What type of colleterial studies and research are the "temporary" anti-vaccers utilizing to ensure the vaccine is safe for them? It's just funny to me that they don't trust the results of the trials, the conclusions of the medical authorities, and the science built upon decades of vaccine research, but maybe if they eyeball some people in their neighborhood who took it and they don't turn into Democrats or homosexuals or something then they'll decide if it's OK to take down the road.

If too many people sit out the vaccine, even on a "wait and see" basis, we're not getting anywhere close to normal until much longer down the road, years maybe. I just hope that they are excluded from regular life as much as possible as we head back - and that proof of vaccination is a prerequisite to get onto a plane, etc.

There will be adverse effects, maybe even serious ones. But this is an emergency situation. We glorify military service, giving back to your community, etc. Sitting it out based on on what we know now is cowardly and selfish. Worst than draft dodging, because the sacrifice required is much less. But the stakes might be higher.

Not necessarily. Mask use can contribute to other health problems.

My local grocery store parking lot is littered with the corpses of people who wore a mask inside to do their grocery shopping. There's just nowhere to put all of the bodies, so we just drive around them. RIP.

Not necessarily. Mask use can contribute to other health problems,
Which health problems do cloth mask use contribute to?

I guess we could say they can exacerbate problems with say, claustrophobia or autism. But beyond that, how do masks contribute to health problems?

SI

There are multiple medical studies that indicate that masks can be detrimental in certain situations. No idea how credible they are.

Not necessarily. Mask use can contribute to other health problems, and that's before you get into other factors like contributing to lemming-like behavior, reinforcing panic, the political aspects regarding government control, etc. If someone believes that masks are ineffective, I don't think it's at all a stretch to go from there to think doing so is harmful. If I thought they were ineffective (I don't, as discussed many times), I wouldn't wear them.

There are lots of potential reasons. One would be masks themselves spreading by getting contaminated by virus and helping spread it, not being cleaned often enough or properly disposed of, people relying on the mask instead of social distancing, masks not actually being effective in preventing the spread of droplets, etc.

One of the issues that often comes up is that the studies showing transmission mitigation often are measuring large droplets, whereas the argument is made based on studies such as Yang 2011, Balazy 2006, Yezli and Otter 2011, etc. that smaller particles than even a N95 mask is capable of filtering out are responsible for most disease transmission. A number of studies backing this up show no improvement in N95 vs. normal surgical masks in influenza transmission, etc. A representative statement is this:

I'm not saying they are right about this, I think there's a strong and convincing scientific consensus for mask-wearing, I've been in favor of most of the restrictions enacted to date so far, etc. At the same time though, it's not at all a stretch and a worthwhile exercise in unity and empathy to understand how people can come to the conclusion that this consensus may be more fear-based than rational, view it as an overreaction, desire to just do something in order to be seen as doing something rather than assess correctly, etc. It's not a case of wanting the vaccine, masking, etc. if you believe in science. Some believe in science and that's why they're against those things. Not everyone who is scientifically minded is going to search out and thoroughly personally read stuff debunking people like Rancourt. Some will just see something confirming their presuppositions and be done with it - and of course that's a phenomenon definitely shared by a certain number on the other side of the issue as well.

They can use pseudo-science all they want to justify it but I can tell you exactly who they voted for and who they would kill to show allegiance to him.

Like if you're a superhero and you fly too close to an airplane engine; mask might get sucked in.

There are multiple medical studies that indicate that masks can be detrimental in certain situations. No idea how credible they are.

Even if this is a legitimate concern, the impacted person could wear one of those plastic face shields. Granted, I fall under the lemming category but it seems like such a small sacrifice.

Like if you're a superhero and you fly too close to an airplane engine; mask might get sucked in.

NO CAPES!

SI

Looks as if Moderna's vaccine will be approved.

Keep'em coming.

There are multiple medical studies that indicate that masks can be detrimental in certain situations. No idea how credible they are.

Largely not. Heck, most that get touted don't even claim to show an actual health issue. Like the one where they have people exercise hard and show that even then effect on oxygenation is minimal. And still it gets touted. "See, there is an effect !"
Others look at strains on HC workers wearing masks for hours. Even others show you can on purpose grow virus/bacterial cultures on certain materials (as a proof of concept to use those when proper material is in short suply). Even others show that masks contain bacteria, that are on the skin for most people anyway (like S.Aureus) and thus you expect them in masks of course too.

Which health problems do cloth mask use contribute to?

I guess we could say they can exacerbate problems with say, claustrophobia or autism. But beyond that, how do masks contribute to health problems?

I think mental health is a big part of it. But aside from that people with breathing difficulties need an unobstructed flow, there have been reports of increased headaches, I've personally had issues with it obstructing vision, etc.

I can tell you exactly who they voted for and who they would kill to show allegiance to him.

There are more things in heaven and earth sir, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.

Went to my dentist today and we discussed if dentist and wife (dental assistant) would be up first. Husband said yes, wife said not early adopter. No, they are not Trump supporters.

Interestingly, the dentist said he has not heard any news/plans on him and practice getting the vaccine. No communication what so ever. I guess he is lower on the list but still should be in the initial group.

BTW, I continue to be impressed by how careful my dentist is with patients. From the front lobby chairs nicely spaced apart, a glass shield at the front desk, gargling with whatever, motion sensor bathroom trash can, foot sensor faucets, plastic stickies on their equipment, masks and face shields & scrubs, and a big "air suck" machine in each station. I don't know how effective the last thing is but every little bit helps I guess.

I'm scheduled to get the vaccine in about an hour and a half.

I'm scheduled to get the vaccine in about an hour and a half.

You won the lottery!

Any concerns? Even a little bit? Let us know if you start craving brains ...

You won the lottery!

Any concerns? Even a little bit? Let us know if you start craving brains ...

Not really. They sent an email out at 11 offering it to all staff through a link to schedule a time. I took the first available time. The guy working next to me has the slot 15 minutes later.

One of my family members works at a hospital where they’ve had the vaccine since Tuesday afternoon and, as of last night, already 1200 front line workers have been vaccinated (1st dose, Pfizer) as of last night. They have about 4500 doses and expect it all to be administered before New Year’s.

Also, the stories about extra doses in the vials is true with this one. Apparently, it’s common practice to overfill vials with additional vaccine to make sure there is extra to give each dose. They’ve noticed 6 and sometimes even enough for 7 doses in the vials and have been given the go-ahead from CDC (or maybe it was FDA – I forget which) to inject the additional one (but not two) if there is enough to do it safely. So maybe we’re talking a few hundred more doses, too.

SI

One of my family members works at a hospital where they’ve had the vaccine since Tuesday afternoon and, as of last night, already 1200 front line workers have been vaccinated (1st dose, Pfizer) as of last night. They have about 4500 doses and expect it all to be administered before New Year’s.

Also, the stories about extra doses in the vials is true with this one. Apparently, it’s common practice to overfill vials with additional vaccine to make sure there is extra to give each dose. They’ve noticed 6 and sometimes even enough for 7 doses in the vials and have been given the go-ahead from CDC (or maybe it was FDA – I forget which) to inject the additional one (but not two) if there is enough to do it safely. So maybe we’re talking a few hundred more doses, too.

SI

Is this voluntary? And any ramifications if someone declined to take it or defer it till late (e.g. Feb)?

Sounds totally voluntary. If you are in the first phase or two and decline to participate, you can get into a later phase - you just don't get higher priority and you're sloshed into the later bucket with everyone else.

Typically they have a system to know if you took your annual flu shot or not and you have to go through a lot of extra hoops if you opt out of it. However, it sounds like the messaging is "hey, this is an experimental vaccine and this is an EUA not a standard one". There may be strings attached later but right now it sounds like they're just trying to get through as many as they can and use up their allocation.

There's also a bunch of special care like how once the vaccine is out, it can't be returned to refrigeration so they have an extra pool of people that can take the extra doses at the end of the day. However, they're also constrained in that state guidelines say it has to go to certain categories of front line responders so you can't, say, start just giving it to other staff, but certain things like food staff and some IT are included.

It's pretty interesting to hear about it from a logistics standpoint.

SI

Similar process for my wife who works in a hospital. Any employee who wants the vaccine submitted a request form and they were going to build out a schedule to prioritize, but figured they had enough to get through all of them by the end of January. Still waiting for her time slot.

Has there been any word on why they cut some vaccine distribution to some states by almost half? Saw Illinois and Nevada on the list unfortunately.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/17/politics/pfizer-vaccine-fewer-doses-states-confusion/index.html

A Health and Human Services spokesperson said reports of jurisdictions' allocations being reduced "are incorrect," and that overall states will receive their full supplies, though deliveries may be spread out over a longer time frame.

"As was done with the initial shipments of Pfizer vaccine, jurisdictions will receive vaccine at different sites over several days. This eases the burden on the jurisdictions and spreads the workload across multiple days. This same process was successfully used for the initial distribution of Pfizer's vaccine, and we are simply applying lessons learned," the spokesperson added.

It's been exploding here. For a while it hovered between 100-200 a day in the county (500k people). Today was almost 650 and it's been over 400 a day for 2 weeks. I have no idea what's happening up here.

So I'm still alive and no extra limbs or anything yet. It burned a bit for me going in, but the guy I work with said he didn't feel anything. No issues or even soreness yet.

They said bad reactions tend to occur within the first 15 minutes of getting the shot. I'm supposed to follow up in 3 weeks to get the 2nd dose.

https://cdn.pleated-jeans.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/memes-12-18-20-19.jpg

So I'm still alive and no extra limbs or anything yet. It burned a bit for me going in, but the guy I work with said he didn't feel anything. No issues or even soreness yet.

They said bad reactions tend to occur within the first 15 minutes of getting the shot. I'm supposed to follow up in 3 weeks to get the 2nd dose.

Damn I was hoping we'd get an extra limb or superpowers! Isn't that how superhero origins work? :) Seriously glad you got the vaccine and hope it does its job

So I'm still alive and no extra limbs or anything yet. It burned a bit for me going in, but the guy I work with said he didn't feel anything. No issues or even soreness yet.

They said bad reactions tend to occur within the first 15 minutes of getting the shot. I'm supposed to follow up in 3 weeks to get the 2nd dose.

Three weeks until freedom.

I'm just really glad that the election is over so this whole Covid thing could finally disappear like it totally has.

So I'm still alive and no extra limbs or anything yet. It burned a bit for me going in, but the guy I work with said he didn't feel anything. No issues or even soreness yet.

They said bad reactions tend to occur within the first 15 minutes of getting the shot. I'm supposed to follow up in 3 weeks to get the 2nd dose.

I hear the 2nd dose is a doozy, like you should be prepared to take a day or two off.

Both my girls got Covid back in November. It's been almost a full month since Mackenzie's isolation/quarantine ended. HS basketball practice was allowed to officially start this week and her doctor cleared her. Well, she's been shut down with headaches, dizziness and general inability to concentrate (including during an online test).

I already had little patience with the "...but 99% survival rate!" idiots, but now it's even more clear that this isn't just some typical illness you easily get over. And this comes on the heels of one of Caitlin's former softball teammates getting a Covid-related heart condition that shut her down for a minimum 4 months.

:(

Both my girls got Covid back in November. It's been almost a full month since Mackenzie's isolation/quarantine ended. HS basketball practice was allowed to officially start this week and her doctor cleared her. Well, she's been shut down with headaches, dizziness and general inability to concentrate (including during an online test).

I already had little patience with the "...but 99% survival rate!" idiots, but now it's even more clear that this isn't just some typical illness you easily get over. And this comes on the heels of one of Caitlin's former softball teammates getting a Covid-related heart condition that shut her down for a minimum 4 months.

That is terrifying. I hope she gets back to normal soon.

Both my girls got Covid back in November. It's been almost a full month since Mackenzie's isolation/quarantine ended. HS basketball practice was allowed to officially start this week and her doctor cleared her. Well, she's been shut down with headaches, dizziness and general inability to concentrate (including during an online test).

I already had little patience with the "...but 99% survival rate!" idiots, but now it's even more clear that this isn't just some typical illness you easily get over. And this comes on the heels of one of Caitlin's former softball teammates getting a Covid-related heart condition that shut her down for a minimum 4 months.

Sorry for the stress you and family must be going through. Have you gone back to Dr. to see if there are any treatment or how to alleviate the symptoms?

That sucks, Ksyrup.

Thoughts are with you Ksyrup. Unfortunately many people aren’t taking it seriously, despite global evidence that they must simply be choosing to ignore.

Looks like we’ll be going back into lockdown and Christmas plans may well be changed - Boris has an announcement on the BBC this pm, and has advised the WHO the new Covid variant here seems to be spreading more quickly than the previous virus

Has there been any word on why they cut some vaccine distribution to some states by almost half? Saw Illinois and Nevada on the list unfortunately.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/17/politics/pfizer-vaccine-fewer-doses-states-confusion/index.html

Or...

DeSantis says Florida shipments of vaccines are ‘on hold.’ Pfizer disagrees. (https://www.tampabay.com/news/florida-politics/2020/12/17/desantis-says-florida-shipments-of-vaccines-are-on-hold-pfizer-disagrees/?itm_source=parsely-api)

Late Thursday, after this story was initially published, McClatchy DC reported that the federal government is to blame for the confusion. Tiberius, the federal clearinghouse used by the states to monitor vaccine shipments, initially quoted shipment numbers to states using outdated, overestimated figures, an anonymous federal official told McClatchy.

Sorry for the stress you and family must be going through. Have you gone back to Dr. to see if there are any treatment or how to alleviate the symptoms?

Calling the doctor on Monday to determine how to proceed. The trainer said they are starting to look at neurological issues related to Covid, so this might be something along those lines. The bad thing is, she's already had 4 concussions by the time she was 15, so she might be more susceptible to headaches, dizziness, etc., than she otherwise would be. I have to think the two are related.

Both my girls got Covid back in November. It's been almost a full month since Mackenzie's isolation/quarantine ended. HS basketball practice was allowed to officially start this week and her doctor cleared her. Well, she's been shut down with headaches, dizziness and general inability to concentrate (including during an online test).

I already had little patience with the "...but 99% survival rate!" idiots, but now it's even more clear that this isn't just some typical illness you easily get over. And this comes on the heels of one of Caitlin's former softball teammates getting a Covid-related heart condition that shut her down for a minimum 4 months.

Sorry to hear about that, KSyrup. Hope she's fully past this soon.

This is definitely part of my concern with the kids: the impacts after they've "recovered". While the odds are very low for fatality and fairly low for side effects, I don't see a need to gamble with their health.

It's unfortunate that everyone can't make that call based solely on their health. Instead, they have to balance the ability to work and earn a living with the potential impacts of contracting COVID-19. Not a great position to be in. The guilt of bringing home the disease to a loved one that becomes seriously sick could be crippling at times.

Both my girls got Covid back in November. It's been almost a full month since Mackenzie's isolation/quarantine ended. HS basketball practice was allowed to officially start this week and her doctor cleared her. Well, she's been shut down with headaches, dizziness and general inability to concentrate (including during an online test).

I already had little patience with the "...but 99% survival rate!" idiots, but now it's even more clear that this isn't just some typical illness you easily get over. And this comes on the heels of one of Caitlin's former softball teammates getting a Covid-related heart condition that shut her down for a minimum 4 months.

Damn, that’s terrible. I’m sorry to hear that. And it bothers me as well that people are just looking at survival rate and not realizing that for some survivors there are serious longer term complications. I hope everything works out for the best with your daughter.

My son and wife are both suffering from dizziness and headaches as part of their post-covid symptoms. My son also has the ball pain too. In fact, they both say that the post symptoms have been worse than the actual illness. Hope your daughter recovers soon.

Calling the doctor on Monday to determine how to proceed. The trainer said they are starting to look at neurological issues related to Covid, so this might be something along those lines. The bad thing is, she's already had 4 concussions by the time she was 15, so she might be more susceptible to headaches, dizziness, etc., than she otherwise would be. I have to think the two are related.

Hoping for the best CK

It's awful to hear y'all kids & families are suffering. I hope everybody gets better as soon as possible.

People who tried to spread the virus should not be first in line for a vaccine.

COVID-19 the leading cause of death for US police officers in 2020 (https://nypost.com/2020/09/03/covid-19-the-leading-cause-of-death-for-us-police-officers-in-2020/amp/?__twitter_impression=true)

While I still believe it is important for the public to see its leaders getting the vaccine, I do find myself getting angry at seeing people who have spent the last nine months downplaying the seriousness of the virus get the vaccine. Can some of those “essential” store workers who were getting their asses kicked, being coughed and spat on just for asking people to wear masks get pushed to the front of the line too?

This the kind of crap that drives me crazy: Georgia Covid vaccine distribution to health care facilities is uneven (https://www.ajc.com/news/coronavirus/questions-arise-in-vaccine-distribution-as-georgia-tops-500000-covid-19-cases/LKZ5YVEXQVHGPI33VE4WPNZE2Q/)


To sum up, rich private cancer center with no ER or COVID ward has their entire staff vaccinated, while a non-profit hospital chain on the front line of dealing with COVID has yet to receive any. Priority is always to the wealthy.

Pence should not have been given a vaccine. Same for Congress.

I disagree, Rainmaker. The more people willing to take the vaccine, the better. It is pretty important for prominent Republicans to publicly take the shot as an example. They have done nearly everything wrong on this, but if they refused the vaccine, that would be among the worse.

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Even though cases have been peaking since after Thanksgiving, our health department will stop doing daily news releases in the new year.

Problem solved.

Not sure which thread to post this, but guess it will be seen by more here. Just another example that while being young and healthy mean the likelihood is that you won’t have major issues, it’s not a guarantee

Newcastle: Allan Saint-Maximin & Jamaal Lascelles suffering from Covid-19 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/55400922)

Pence should not have been given a vaccine. Same for Congress.

Apparently this is tied to some executive orders, AOC (and others I'm sure but I follow AOC) basically got hers live via instagram, I believe she said that she didn't expect to get it so soon but there was a directive "strongly encouraging" all members of congress to do so.

I'm fine with this, personally.

I'm a little opposed to Congress going first, but anyone in the line of succession should absolutely get it ASAP.

Apparently this is tied to some executive orders, AOC (and others I'm sure but I follow AOC) basically got hers live via instagram, I believe she said that she didn't expect to get it so soon but there was a directive "strongly encouraging" all members of congress to do so.

I'm fine with this, personally.

I can be convinced otherwise but my first reaction is cutting in line.

I get that America wants to see "leaders" take the vaccine to reassure it's safe. I want to see that and it makes sense for McConnell, Pelosi, Surgeon General, Pence, Birx, Fauci etc. to take it.

But other healthy, younger politicians don't fall in 1a or 1b (currently where we are I think). It smacks of cutting in line. Why should AOC get it before my wife who is a teacher and literally on the front line dealing with kids (and yes, parents send their kids to school when sick)? Rhetorical question, we know why and I don't like it.

I'm okay if it was clearly defined that XX politicians will be given the vaccine when 1a and 1b was defined, but I don't remember reading this in MSM. So this is a surprise and leaves a bad taste.

Question - is this one off or is everyone in Congress going to get it before regular folks?

I'm not sure I believe what both SG say. From the article, it's all fluff words without anything much behind it. It would have been better if they said like

"We are in touch with our colleagues in the UK, they've provided us with some sample and CDC is currently looking at it. Most likely our vaccines will work against this new strain but we will give you a preliminary confirmation by XX date. In the meantime, err on the side of caution and continue to ...."

I'm definitely not a researcher but IMO can smell some BS here with the lack of specificity.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/coronavirus-mutation-not-vaccine-resistant-current-future-surgeon-generals-believe
The current and potential surgeons general of the United States have assured they see no potential danger posed by the new coronavirus strain reported in Britain.

News of a more virulent strain of COVID-19 found in the U.K. has unsettled world leaders and citizens alike, seeming to arise just as global distribution of the Pfizer vaccine is underway and Moderna’s vaccine not far behind it.

However, both Surgeon General Dr. Jerome Adams and President-elect Biden's pick for the position, Dr. Vivek Murthy, believe that the new strain does not pose a threat as long as Americans continue to observe basic health policies as suggested by the CDC guidelines.

Adams cautioned that the public should remember that viruses mutate "all the time," but that it does not necessarily make them more dangerous.

"We don’t even know if it’s really more contagious yet or not, or if it just happened to be a strain that was involved in a super-spreader event," Adams told "Face the Nation" host Margaret Brennan. "Right now, we have no indications that it is going to hurt our ability to continue vaccinating people or that it is any more dangerous or deadly than the strains that are out there and we currently know about."

Apparently this is tied to some executive orders, AOC (and others I'm sure but I follow AOC) basically got hers live via instagram, I believe she said that she didn't expect to get it so soon but there was a directive "strongly encouraging" all members of congress to do so.

I'm fine with this, personally.

She is 31 and from what we know a healthy individual. She has the ability to socially distance unlike many other jobs.

My main issue is people like Joni Ernst who was pro-virus for the past year cutting the line to get a vaccine. Reap what you sow bitch.

Mock Joni Ernst for her hypocracy, but still televise her getting that shot. Can you imagine the level of crazy the conspiracy theories would get if no Republicans got the vaccine?

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Pro-virus? What policy positions are pro-virus?

The below questionnaire is to gauge where you may be in line.

New tool tells you when you may be able to get COVID-19 vaccine (https://nypost.com/2020/12/21/new-tool-tells-you-when-you-may-be-able-to-get-covid-19-vaccine/)
A new online tool shows Americans when they may be able to get the coronavirus vaccine.

While the COVID-19 shot began being administered to healthcare workers across the country last Monday, the general public isn’t expected to get access until the spring or summer.

Using data from the Vaccine Allocation Planner tool by Ariadne Labs and the Surgo Foundation, ABC News created a questionnaire that helps people find out where they stand in the vaccine line.
How many people may get a COVID-19 vaccine before you? (https://dig.abclocal.go.com/ccg/interactives/vaccine-calculator/index.html)

My result is no surprise.
There are an estimated 8,639,496 people in such groups in Georgia, which means about 81% of the state population will probably get the COVID-19 vaccine before you. These groups include high risk workers in health care facilities, first responders, people with significant health problems, nursing home residents, teachers, transportation workers, people over 65, and food and retail workers.

Locally, in Forsyth, Georgia, There are an estimated 159,744 people in phases before you.

I am phase 1b. Only 6% of people should be ahead of me. We'll see. I bet I will be lucky to get it in phase 2

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Thanks for the link to the tools Edward

Thanks for the link to the tools Edward

You are welcome.

FWIW, I don't want it in Dec but I don't want it last either. Thinking about spending $25K to bribe someone to cut in line :)

Scott fucking Atlas getting a WSJ opinion to blame HC professionals for spreading disinformation is such a 'perfect' way to end 2020 that i have to wonder if that really was meant to be released Dec 31. What a shitshow.

Pro-virus? What policy positions are pro-virus?

Heh, good point. How about "not believing in the severity/danger of coronavirus".

I am phase 1b. Only 6% of people should be ahead of me. We'll see. I bet I will be lucky to get it in phase 2

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Damn elitist.

Apparently, according to the tool I may never get the Vaccine.

Phase 2 for me from the looks of it.

Only 2 million people ahead of me in my state.

Only 2 million people ahead of me in my state.

And you are complaining?

8.6M ahead of me.

SO many people at my wife's work won't take it that she may get in tomorrow or Thursday.

Birx is resigning. She was hypocritical and didn't think her directions to regular folks applied to her. I don't think she needed to resign, just a heart felt apology that she screwed up would have been okay.

Might also have been miffed that Biden seemed to have preferred Fauci.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EofMZJ5XIAUTQGo?format=jpg&name=small

Birx is resigning. She was hypocritical and didn't think her directions to regular folks applied to her. I don't think she needed to resign, just a heart felt apology that she screwed up would have been okay.

Might also have been miffed that Biden seemed to have preferred Fauci.

Is she resigning under trump? I don't see Biden really playing into it at the moment. Or am I missing something?

Pro-virus? What policy positions are pro-virus?

If you are pushing policy or conspiracy theories that result in the virus spreading, you are pro-virus. Just as if she was consistently pushing policies that led to war, I'd consider her and others pro-war.

Is she resigning under trump? I don't see Biden really playing into it at the moment. Or am I missing something?

Was pretty vague but it just sounds like she won't be working for the Biden administration. My guess is they told her she was gone when they take over and resigning is a nicer way of leaving. Can maybe salvage a shred of whats left of her reputation.

I find this very hard to believe ... can it be true that SF only had 173 coronavirus fatalities? I get it's city vs county (county is what is typically reported in GA) but the 173 seems extremely low.

Overdose deaths outnumber COVID-19 deaths more than 3 to 1 in San Francisco | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/531269-overdose-deaths-outnumber-covid-19-deaths-more-than-3-to-1-in-san)
Drug overdose fatalities in San Francisco this year outnumbered COVID-19 deaths by a 3 to 1 margin, as deaths related to the powerful painkiller fentanyl rose.

In 2020 alone, 621 people have died from drug overdoses in San Francisco, while the number of coronavirus fatalities were 173, The Associated Press reported.

They have had some of the strongest restrictions and high compliance rates. Plus a world class health system and department of health that made testing real easy for anyone.

I think people have said that the AIDS crisis in the city helped build a great health infrastructure for today.

I find this very hard to believe ... can it be true that SF only had 173 coronavirus fatalities? I get it's city vs county (county is what is typically reported in GA) but the 173 seems extremely low.

Overdose deaths outnumber COVID-19 deaths more than 3 to 1 in San Francisco | TheHill (https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/531269-overdose-deaths-outnumber-covid-19-deaths-more-than-3-to-1-in-san)

The takeaway here, if the numbers are correct, is the great job dealing with the virus. Drugs are a threat to every city and they aren't going away with a vaccine. There are much more complex problems at play with drug and drug addiction than just dealing with prevention and emergency medical treatment of a virus.

Was pretty vague but it just sounds like she won't be working for the Biden administration. My guess is they told her she was gone when they take over and resigning is a nicer way of leaving. Can maybe salvage a shred of whats left of her reputation.
Weird technical question - how do contracts work for political appointees at that level? Are they on month to month contracts with a set buyout if they're terminated?

Like if Birx is not wanted by Biden, but not being pushed out by Trump, isn't it basically at-will employment/allowed for the incoming administration to decline to keep anyone? Or is that a perception I have because people used to play by honorable rules, but the legal reality is murkier?

Weird technical question - how do contracts work for political appointees at that level? Are they on month to month contracts with a set buyout if they're terminated?

Like if Birx is not wanted by Biden, but not being pushed out by Trump, isn't it basically at-will employment/allowed for the incoming administration to decline to keep anyone? Or is that a perception I have because people used to play by honorable rules, but the legal reality is murkier?

She works at the discretion of the President. It doesn't appear she is going to be asked to be on his coronavirus task force. Biden could move her elsewhere into the shadows to avoid having to let her go, but my guess is she sees the writing on the wall.

Texas and Florida doing it their own way, prioritizing the older folks before essential workers. I don't agree or disagree, don't think there is one right answer to sequencing.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/23/covid-vaccine-texas-other-states-break-from-cdc-in-prioritizing-who-gets-next-round-of-shots.html
Texas was among the first states to split from the CDC guidance. The state announced Monday that it is prioritizing those 65 years and older as well as those with certain medical conditions in its phase 1b vaccination plan, making front-line essential workers wait a bit longer.

“The focus on people who are age 65 and older or who have comorbidities will protect the most vulnerable populations,” said Imelda Garcia, chair of Texas’ expert vaccine allocation panel and associate commissioner for laboratory and infectious disease services at the Texas Department of State Health Services. “This approach ensures that Texans at the most severe risk from Covid-19 can be protected across races and ethnicities and regardless of where they work.”
:
Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis followed Texas on Tuesday, saying he intends to prioritize people over age 70 to be first to get the vaccine, not essential workers.

“The vaccines are going to be targeted where the risk is going to be greatest, and that is in our elderly population,” DeSantis said at a news briefing. “We are not going to put young, healthy workers ahead of our elderly, vulnerable population.”

I thought all the people 65 and older sacrificed their lives already on behalf of the economy.

Let's hope that 2021 is the expected slow plodding of vaccinations, some bumps and acrimony, but largely completed by late-summer.

Because we apparently have mutated strains in UK (not new news), in South Africa (not quite new news but came out yesterday) and now in Nigeria (today's new news).

It's 50-50 right now whether we get the Zombie Apocalypse / 24 Days worse case scenario.

Bloomerberg has a really nice vaccine tracker that they're updating throughout the day. Some of the states and countries report data a few days after the fact, so it's fair to say we're well over 3.3 million globally vaccinated so far, and 1.23 million in the U.S. Just a nice daily boost to your morale. At least 3 states have already vaccinated over 1% of their population (they're counting everyone who has started the 2 drug sequence).

Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/)

Bloomerberg has a really nice vaccine tracker that they're updating throughout the day. Some of the states and countries report data a few days after the fact, so it's fair to say we're well over 3.3 million globally vaccinated so far, and 1.23 million in the U.S. Just a nice daily boost to your morale. At least 3 states have already vaccinated over 1% of their population (they're counting everyone who has started the 2 drug sequence).

Bloomberg - Are you a robot? (https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/)

I read somewhere the goal was 20M vaccinated in the US in Dec. Likely be missing that goal but hopefully we can really get in gear in Jan or right after the inauguration.

I don't think we should be critical of missing that goal, this is all uncharted territory since polio/small pox mass vaccinations. Definitely a learning curve here.

My wife got the first dose yesterday.

My wife got the first dose yesterday.

How does she feel?

A bit sore in the arm, but otherwise fine.

It's 50-50 right now whether we get the Zombie Apocalypse / 24 Days worse case scenario.

I'm assuming this is a joke, but I'm not sure.

I'm assuming this is a joke, but I'm not sure.

We haven't heard from Atocep for the past couple days, and he was the first of us to get a shot.

So like History Channel Ancient Aliens series "... could it be that Atocep is now slowing turning into a zombie or a rager?"

I don't know what the big deal is with people having allergic reactions to the vaccines. Yeah, the first time it was interesting and nice to know there is a process to resolve it (e.g. epipens). But does MSM have to report (seemingly) every time it happens now?

Approx 1M+ have been vaccinated, and there have been < 10 bad allergic reactions, all taken care of.

Let me know if someone dies or something really, really bad happens. Otherwise, just keep on saying vaccines are safe and that if you have an allergic reaction, the health care workers know what to do etc.

Let's hope that 2021 is the expected slow plodding of vaccinations, some bumps and acrimony, but largely completed by late-summer.

Because we apparently have mutated strains in UK (not new news), in South Africa (not quite new news but came out yesterday) and now in Nigeria (today's new news).

It's 50-50 right now whether we get the Zombie Apocalypse / 24 Days worse case scenario.

Add France to the list of a new variant.

So let's up the odds to 60-40 now :)

I don't know what the big deal is with people having allergic reactions to the vaccines. Yeah, the first time it was interesting and nice to know there is a process to resolve it (e.g. epipens). But does MSM have to report (seemingly) every time it happens now?

Approx 1M+ have been vaccinated, and there have been < 10 bad allergic reactions, all taken care of.

Let me know if someone dies or something really, really bad happens. Otherwise, just keep on saying vaccines are safe and that if you have an allergic reaction, the health care workers know what to do etc.

The reporting of the <10 bad allergic reactions are not meant for you. They are meant for the record to show that they did report the reaction and did not hide them. It will not make that big of a difference because for anti vaxxers, the coverage of those bad reactions should be covered in the way 9/11 was covered.

Thems the rules of the game until told otherwise.

The reporting of the <10 bad allergic reactions are not meant for you. They are meant for the record to show that they did report the reaction and did not hide them. It will not make that big of a difference because for anti vaxxers, the coverage of those bad reactions should be covered in the way 9/11 was covered.

Thems the rules of the game until told otherwise.

Okay, I see what you are saying. I can buy that.

79% of the CT population will get it before me. That's fine. Just get it for my Dad and wife A.S.A.P.

Hmmm, not sure how accurate all of this is but from AJC, I would fall under Phase 2. I would come before Phase 3 "young adults 18-30".

My kids in college would also be Phase 2 "individuals in congregate settings". I think there is a large overlap between Phase 2 & 3 folks.

Coronavirus: When will Georgia teachers, police officers get COVID vaccine? (https://www.ajc.com/news/atlanta-news/georgia-teachers-police-wait-for-early-shot-at-covid-19-vaccine/ERAR2X4JFFDSZPWECEAG3ZGCHU/)

https://www.ajc.com/resizer/P5RY8J1doL_qaib8zXXP5_hCIqY=/800x0/cloudfront-us-east-1.images.arcpublishing.com/ajc/ZLFR47APWZD6BGJWUUURBUHDJU.png

Reading a lot of frustration about how so far there are roughly 11.5 million vaccines distributed and only 2 million administered. The Feds say it's up to the states and the states don't have any money and increasingly hand it over to frontline workers to figure out. It's the testing debacle all over again.

Was talking to my back specialist this afternoon and he basically said he was given almost no information other than being told that it would probably be spring/summer for the first tier of public health workers to be finished in LA County. We are still going to be dealing with this in 2022 I would imagine.

I have a suspicion that the situation will improve after another three weeks

This has basically nothing to do with the federal government at this point. So yeah, I don’t think it’s remotely that simple.

I have a suspicion that the situation will improve after another three weeks

I do think it will improve with a focused President. Periodic/daily national briefings reporting progress (or lack of) will put state governments on notice.

I can easily see Biden asking Governors "besides vaccines, what can I help you with". Biden has had time to understand the problems. There will be bumps and mistakes for sure.

I'll be disappointed if the is not largely ready to go on Day 1.

The relief bill should help some as there is money for vaccine distribution, but there seems to be surprisingly little planning for actually getting vaccines into people's arms. There's going to be a lot of outrage at the first stories of vaccines thrown away because they expired before use.

I don't think any of that stuff moves the needle in the current environment.

I don't think any of that stuff moves the needle in the current environment.

Pun intended?

No actually, but if it works ... :p

I do think it will improve with a focused President. Periodic/daily national briefings reporting progress (or lack of) will put state governments on notice.

I can easily see Biden asking Governors "besides vaccines, what can I help you with". Biden has had time to understand the problems. There will be bumps and mistakes for sure.

I'll be disappointed if the is not largely ready to go on Day 1.

This is where I was coming from (although I did not know that it outside the direct control of the President) - Biden appears to be putting Covid at the forefront of his mind and comes across as having a can-do attitude, rather than the incumbent who has never acknowledged the seriousness of the disease and appears to be operating a scorched earth policy on his way out.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/29/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

No surprise, it's here folks.

This is where I was coming from (although I did not know that it outside the direct control of the President) - Biden appears to be putting Covid at the forefront of his mind and comes across as having a can-do attitude, rather than the incumbent who has never acknowledged the seriousness of the disease and appears to be operating a scorched earth policy on his way out.

US president-elect Joe Biden criticises Covid vaccine handling by Trump administration | The National (https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/the-americas/us-president-elect-joe-biden-criticises-covid-vaccine-handling-by-trump-administration-1.1137086)

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/29/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

No surprise, it's here folks.

Zombie watch! Post any sightings here.

The thing is that's mostly a lot of bluster. Invoking the DPA to produce more vaccine is irrelevant when the issue is distributing the vaccine we already have. Biden may be able to improve coordination with some states, use the bully pulpit, etc. and that may have some impact. States where a significant number of people don't want the vaccine though are not going to see much movement no matter what he does, and a lot of this is up to state and local beauracracy outside of his control.

Yeah, totally agree. The issue (based off a 2 min conversation, so don’t take this as gospel) in the case I was told about is that the county can’t even coordinate with the state as to who is a critical health worker, so it’s basically sign up to this list and wait for the word that we’ve got your vaccine ready but don’t hold your breath.

Not sure it matters who the president is in that case. Best case scenario is additional funding helps, but still... if it’s anything like the testing and contact tracing it’s all going to be outsourced to the lowest bidder anyway, so good luck with that.

RIP another republican congressman

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/congressman-elect-luke-letlow-dies-after-covid-diagnosis-n1252520?fbclid=IwAR1mUNFxyK8iJgsqdE5biU2XT_g7ygZMUuSwQnhUyLEq64KDDvsBbXFFQ3g

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/29/health/us-coronavirus-tuesday/index.html

No surprise, it's here folks.

yeah I was not surprised at ALL

COuld have originated here

My 86 year-old mother tested positive yesterday. So far no symptoms, but it's very worrying.

My 86 year-old mother tested positive yesterday. So far no symptoms, but it's very worrying.

Yeah my mother is almost the same age and very worried for her if she gets it. Thinking of your family JP, and I hope your mom quickly recovers.

Sorry if this is one of the other threads, but I saw yesterday that a Republican Congressman-Elect in Louisiana got COVID right before Christmas, and has now died of COVID complicatons at age 41. Leaves behind a wife and two young kids. :(

Sorry if this is one of the other threads, but I saw yesterday that a Republican Congressman-Elect in Louisiana got COVID right before Christmas, and has now died of COVID complicatons at age 41. Leaves behind a wife and two young kids. :(

I'm sorry for being an ass but would like to know if he was a Covid denier. If so, not going to be sorry about it. Don't wish it on anyone but not going to give my sympathies either.

I'm sorry for being an ass but would like to know if he was a Covid denier. If so, not going to be sorry about it. Don't wish it on anyone but not going to give my sympathies either.

Not sure but he did make comments about learning to live with covid, have to open the economy, other countries are coping, etc...

Good luck to your Mom, JP. I sincerely hope the symptoms are mild or non-existent.

Not familiar with this outlet but it collected a lot of Tweets that are just embedded Tweets of him going maskless at a lot of campaign events, while voting, etc.

Maskless Event Photos Surface After Luke Letlow Dies of COVID-19 (https://www.dailydot.com/debug/luke-letlow-covid-death-maskless-campaign-events/)

SI

I'm sorry for being an ass but would like to know if he was a Covid denier. If so, not going to be sorry about it. Don't wish it on anyone but not going to give my sympathies either.Getting ill and that feeling like "he had it coming" is one thing, but not feeling sympathies when somebody dies, that's a whole different level.

Nobody deserves to die from this pandemic, we're all victims here (unless it turns out somebody actually constructed this thing in some lab as a means of chemical weapon of sorts), but it's actually frightening when it was somebody in his early 40s that died.

Getting ill and that feeling like "he had it coming" is one thing, but not feeling sympathies when somebody dies, that's a whole different level.

Nobody deserves to die from this pandemic, we're all victims here (unless it turns out somebody actually constructed this thing in some lab as a means of chemical weapon of sorts), but it's actually frightening when it was somebody in his early 40s that died.

If he truly was a Covid denier (and we don't know if he was or not), he very likely influenced others (he's a politician) and put others in danger. So no sympathies from me, just neutral "okay, let's move on".

Not familiar with this outlet but it collected a lot of Tweets that are just embedded Tweets of him going maskless at a lot of campaign events, while voting, etc.

Maskless Event Photos Surface After Luke Letlow Dies of COVID-19 (https://www.dailydot.com/debug/luke-letlow-covid-death-maskless-campaign-events/)

SI

Yeah, he may not have been a vocal denier but it's pretty evident he didn't take any precautions multiple times. So no sympathy from me.

I'm sorry for being an ass but would like to know if he was a Covid denier. If so, not going to be sorry about it. Don't wish it on anyone but not going to give my sympathies either.

If this was one of the more well known Republicans/COVID denier who then caught it and died, I would have less sympathy for them. This guy didn't even make it to Congress yet, and left behind two very young kids and a wife. I have sympathy for them. I don't know if this guy was a state politician before coming to Congress. If it turns out he ran on being a COVID Denier, then I have little symoathy for him and a lot for his family.

My 86 year-old mother tested positive yesterday. So far no symptoms, but it's very worrying.
Sorry to hear. Please keep us updated and she will for sure be in my prayers.

There's a difference between sympathy and supporting what someone did. IMO there's never a good reason not to have sympathy for somebody in these situations. Some people were voted for *because* of their stances - I think COVID denier goes too far as I've yet to have see any significant public official say the virus doesn't exist - but are we prepared to say that it's good for nobody to be willing to represent constituents whose preferred policy on the pandemic we don't agree with?

There's a difference between sympathy and supporting what someone did. IMO there's never a good reason not to have sympathy for somebody in these situations. Some people were voted for *because* of their stances - I think COVID denier goes too far as I've yet to have see any significant public official say the virus doesn't exist - but are we prepared to say that it's good for nobody to be willing to represent constituents whose preferred policy on the pandemic we don't agree with?

"Covid denier" is not 100% accurate, I really meant "denying or purposely oblivious to the severity and transmissibility of Covid (and quite possibly endangering others on multiple occasions) after plenty of evidence has been provided". Because it's a mouthful, I'll just use the shortcut of "Covid denier".

I agree that covid deniers have the right to be represented, as in this case, with another covid denier. I (personally) don't need to spend anytime feeling sympathy for "them" if they pass away.

That's fair enough. I think 'Covid minimizer' might be an easier way to go, but so long as we know what you're trying to say it's not something to quibble over.

I just think sympathy is for all, even those who caused their own suffering.

I (personally) don't need to spend anytime feeling sympathy for "them" if they pass away.

The way I read this is as such, and its not a great condemnation by any stretch, but when I see these things it's how I am thinking:

You learned that someone had died, and chose to spend time on them, because you replied. So, the way I read that is that you found your reaction worthy of sharing with the rest of us, and that comment was to go out of your way to point out that you don't feel sympathy for them, so in my head, I take that to mean that your reaction was some version of "good, I'm glad" that covid denier died (otherwise why is it worth the time to share your reaction). And that is a reaction that I personally don't like whenever I feel it for someone else's suffering, so seeing you express it is slightly unsettling.

This is way more minor than the words I just put to it. But that's how I read it, take that however you'd like.

(otherwise why is it worth the time to share your reaction).

Because I was responding to a post about the death and like many of us are apt to do here, we share our thoughts.

If it was out of the blue where I originated/linked the story and said no sympathy, I could see your point.

I don't wish death or disease on anyone, but I do understand why some don't mourning a loss of someone who cavalierly endangered themselves or others.

I don't wish death or disease on anyone, but I do understand why some don't mourning a loss of someone who cavalierly endangered themselves or others.

That's where I'm coming from.

I don't wish death or disease on anyone, but I do understand why some don't mourning a loss of someone who cavalierly endangered themselves or others.

yeah. Especially when they were in a position to harm others through policy and leadership. Callous as it is his death may save lives. It is sad for his kids, but perhaps knowing he had those kids he should have been more cautious.

I'm now in quarantine. My nephew tested positive this morning. I haven't had direct contact with him, but my parents have, and they've been at my house since the 26th. Getting tested on Saturday.

I'm now in quarantine. My nephew tested positive this morning. I haven't had direct contact with him, but my parents have, and they've been at my house since the 26th. Getting tested on Saturday.

Thinking about you and your family Cartman :::hug:::

I don't wish death or disease on anyone, but I do understand why some don't mourning a loss of someone who cavalierly endangered themselves or others.

This can be said about anybody whose policy positions we disagree with though. To take a super-obvious example, I don't think the board would be just fine with pro-lifers not valuing the lives of people who advocated for a woman's right to choose.

This can be said about anybody whose policy positions we disagree with though. To take a super-obvious example, I don't think the board would be just fine with pro-lifers not valuing the lives of people who advocated for a woman's right to choose.

Sorry but I call bullshit on this. We aren't talking about a policy, we are talking about downplaying the worst public health crisis in a century. Nuance matters here.

You can call BS on it all you want, but it doesn't apply here. If you want to talk about numbers, pro-lifers will happily point out to you that more people get aborted every year than will die of COVID in this country. The main point though isn't about that; it's more fundamental. It's the logical underpinning of the idea that we get to not treat other people with humanity because we don't like what they say. How we treat the pandemic most definitely is a policy. If we're talking about some aspect of it that isn't about public policy, then we aren't talking about anything that an elected representative is responsible for.

Four thousand people dieing a day and hospitals are overflowing, and we still have people arguing like the virus is a matter of opinion or political preference.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

It isn't about what they say, it is about what they do, and the effect that has on other peoples lives.

If Trump drops dead of a massive stroke I will be happy about it, not because he died, but because his death will likely save countless lives. That isn't a lack of humanity, that is looking at the situation from perhaps an uncomfortable perspective. I believe the same with this congressman.

dola- and again I will call bullshit on Covid being policy. We are in this situation because the right made it a culture war and a political war, not because of any policies they did or didn't put in place.

If Trump drops dead of a massive stroke I will be happy about it, not because he died, but because his death will likely save countless lives. That isn't a lack of humanity, that is looking at the situation from perhaps an uncomfortable perspective. I believe the same with this congressman.

This congressman isn't getting replaced by a liberal who will point policy in another direction. He's going to get replaced by someone with similar ideas. His death doesn't change the landscape at all. It doesn't save lives. His death is pointless.

Four thousand people dieing a day and hospitals are overflowing, and we still have people arguing like the virus is a matter of opinion or political preference.

Leaving the exaggeration of the facts aside, I would pose the question below I asked to Lathum to you as well. When do we get to decide, and on what basis, that contrary opinions on an issue are not to be tolerated?

again I will call bullshit on Covid being policy. We are in this situation because the right made it a culture war and a political war, not because of any policies they did or didn't put in place.

What's the line on when it's ok to have a different opinion on an issue and still be treated with humanity? When does something become 'beyond policy'?

f Trump drops dead of a massive stroke I will be happy about it, not because he died, but because his death will likely save countless lives. That isn't a lack of humanity, that is looking at the situation from perhaps an uncomfortable perspective. I believe the same with this congressman.

In that case we need to be ok with people doing the same with public figures who espouse points of view we don't like. If they die, the damage people believe they are doing to the country/humanity/etc. ends as well.

This congressman isn't getting replaced by a liberal who will point policy in another direction. He's going to get replaced by someone with similar ideas. His death doesn't change the landscape at all. It doesn't save lives. His death is pointless.

It is an excellent point, but I would say perhaps at least a small portion of people may change their perspective because of his death, just look at Chris Christie