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NBA 2K12 Demo Roundtable

Steven Bartlett: The NBA 2K12 demo is very stripped down from the build I played just a few weeks back. Here, there isn’t too much to be explored when compared to 2K11, as it almost feels the same. However, the improvements in gameplay do arise in certain situations.

The game tempo flows smoother, and that is due in the overall execution of individual movesets. The size-up animations occur quicker, and in a more controlled space allowing for chaining animations together and finding an open shooter. Catch and shoot corner threes execute faster. 

Mid-air controls play out more natural. Switching hands and changing shots dynamically occurs without any slow up or awkward animations – it actually works effectively. 

The Y-button post up is intriguing in its ability to free up the whole arsenal of buttons and triggers to execute moves. Originally, I wasn’t comfortable with it but I have faith in the 2K team’s control scheme. The shot stick is very effective out of the post. 

2K12 is a title that will never be mastered, but always provide a level of perfection in controls to be desired. There are so many points of attack that this franchise never gets stale. I look forward to achieving Iso-Motion from the 2K camera, where I have a better feel of direction on the shot stick.

Jayson Young: Player movement still feels incredibly awkward and bogged down by the bazillion animations Visual Concepts crams into their basketball games. NBA 2K12makes the effort to capture unique jump shots for most of its players, yet the game struggles with basic transitional animations like going from the triple threat position into a blow-by dribble or catching a pass and then making a quick first step in another direction.

My biggest pet peeve is how the passing, after more than 10 years of 2K basketball, is still slow and floaty. Shouldn't Jason Kidd be zipping passes around the court? Beach ball passing, sadly, is still the norm in 2K12.

Playcalling isn't available in the demo, and with set plays being a weak point in the NBA 2K series for years, I'm skeptical that Visual Concepts has gotten this crucial element of basketball correct. NBA 2K's play system has been plagued by a cumbersome interface and dumb AI teammates since its Dreamcast debut.

NBA 2K12 certainly looks great graphically and sold a ton of copies last year, but I just haven't been impressed with the animation-heavy direction the on-court gameplay has taken since NBA 2K7. Like many of today's NBA superstars, NBA 2K12 seems to focus too much on the flash and glamour of basketball and not enough on the sport's fundamentals.

Caley Roark: I'm not a basketball expert, and didn't really give NBA 2K11 enough time last year to fully appreciate the improvements. That said, I found some positive and negative aspects of the demo that I feel qualified to dissect.

First, compared to recent demos, this one seems especially limited. I understand why there is no commentary, but no play calling? This seems like a basic function of the game, and one that's supposedly been improved by adding player specific options. It seems like something that might have been showcased in a demo, not unlike Fifa's new defensive system. 

While I'm complaining, I saw that typical 2K jerkiness between animations that I believe Jayson is talking about. Only, in my case, it's more noticeable when we are watching guys who aren't in action. Those pre-game zoomed in shots look good, except when the player awkwardly twitches between warming up and heading to the bench.

On the presentation side, this game should continue to build on 2K's recent legacy of outstanding television-style camera work and graphics. While it was just an ad, the little animated banner with Lebron and Dirk looks like something you'd see on just about any channel. And the pre-game video was current, authentic and awesome. 

I wish the demo might have touted the game's new features a bit better, but I did have fun with it. I think the things I'm really looking forward to (My Player, great commentary, era specific presentations) couldn't have been included anyway. For being only a casual basketball fan, the press for this game, and now the demo, has me itching to see the whole thing.

Dustin Toms: The NBA 2K12 demo is not impressive to me. Compared to what I played down at 2K Studios, this demo is slow, slightly clunky and just not that fun. You only get four minutes to begin to get a feel for the game, which is entirely too short. All in all, it's a typically 2K demo. Their demos are known for being very early, stripped down builds of the retail product.

The demo does showcase some of the new gameplay features, mainly the collisions and fast break system. The fast break does happen too often, though. Jason Kidd had three steals in a row that lead to easy points. That was way too often for more liking, regardless if the sequence looked like a thing of beauty.

The help defense is showing up, which is a big factor for 2K12's success. Miami had to fight their way into the paint; they couldn't just post up with Chris Bosh or, *gasp*, LeBron. There were a couple times when Bosh would just give up, spin around and take a terrible fade-away over Dirk.

The post game is there, but it doesn't feel as fine tuned as when I was abusing it with our boy Dirk. The Y button doesn't feel as responsive as in the build I played, which made posting up feel slow and unbalanced. I was still able to watch Dirk's pretty signature style, which really is one of the best animations I have seen in a sports game.

And lastly, for you Dallas fans out there, Caron Butler can stroke it again. Four 3s in a row.


NBA 2K12 Videos
Member Comments
# 61 Aceballer1737 @ 09/24/11 11:14 PM
"Actually, if you even follow the real sport of basketball, you KNOW that 2K11 (and 2K12 is no different, going on the demo and history) does not focus on fundamentals. 2K11 wasn't realistic or fundamental. It was fun, against other human player, but the AI dribbler should NOT be standing at the top of the key dribbling out the shot clock, despite the human player trying to knock the ball away. It simply would not happen in real life. The AI should not be inbounding the ball to the same place each time, nor should the AI sprint up the court each time with the ball. Those are the types of things that 'sim baller' looks for, and it's the type of things that separate a sim baller from the guy who is focused on so-and-so's tattoos or what color socks some guy is wearing. Nothing wrong with the folks who play a basketball game because of its' looks, but we sim ballers definitely have a problem with a game that, after 11 versions, for all intents and purposes still does not realistically represent the game of basketball."

The only thing more realistic to the game of basketball compared to 2k11 is the actual real game of basketball.
 
# 62 Dazraz @ 09/25/11 02:48 AM
The demo of NBA 2K12 is a nice little taster for the game although it's stripped down nature means it's hard to come away without feeling a little underwhelmed. That said I'm sure the full game, with it's brilliant presentation & solid game modes, will once again blow us away.
 
# 63 BlackRome @ 09/25/11 08:41 AM
Let's stop saying how they improved the series. The series has gone down hill every year since 2k8. It was the last game they had where everything worked.

2k9. The dribble system was broke. The only moved that allowed you to get by someone was a spin move.
Online they got rid of the lobbies. Big mistake. Madden copied the 2k lobbies and they are great.

2k10. XBOX360. You could score at will in the paint. Online became a layup fest. They slowed the game down and the slow animations started to show their ugly head. Floating for the first time was introduced into the 2k series. I have a great first step on the ball court. The first step disappeared from the 2k series with this release.

PS3. Played a much better game of basketball than the 360 but the floating was much worst on PS3.

2k11. Online unplayable. Floating reached NBA Live levels. You move the stick. You wait for your man to complete the move. Then you do your next move. This to me was the worst 2k released since 2k6.
 
# 64 BlackRome @ 09/25/11 09:00 AM
I see the fan boys are out in force. The same fan boys who thought last years version was the greatest when it was the worst release game play wise since 2k6.

I don't see where they are to far off. In the demo the animations are to slow. Dribbling is a basic fundamental of basketball. It's been broke since 2k9 was released.

They decided to destroy the passing system last year and all but erased the first step from the game.

So yes the fundamentals of basketball like passing and dribbling still need to be corrected.

The ball last year did not get the correct height on passes. Way to easy to intercept. Passes wiz by players heads all the time. Not in 2k. Passing and dribbling hit their low points last year.

So yes the fundamentals were lacking.

From what Dustin said. The build he played was smoother and the animations were better. '

I hope he's right. I think most of you are just pick up basketball players. Maybe you made your high school team.

I've played on a very high level and have played against or with most of the dudes who came out of Philly that made the pros. I played in the games at McGonigle hall on Temple's campus with Kobe, Aaron Mckie and Eddie Jones. Kobe bussed Eddie behind so bad he ran and told Jerry West to draft him.

Remember. At the time Kobe was 17 and destroying a lock down all NBA defensive player. I had a front row seat. As the PG. Playing against Rick Brunson.

So let's just say I know the game.

2k11 sucked. Badly.
 
# 65 scottyp180 @ 09/25/11 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKasmar
I wonder how many times they played the demo? It's the type of game where if you arent familiar with the controls then it can damper the experience. I can understand how a new user could come away more frustrated than impressed.
This is something I'm wondering too. Out of any game I got out of the pass year 2k11 got the most play, so once I started the 2k12 demo I noticed an immediate difference to the feel and controls which threw off my game a bit but once I looked up the controls and played the demo more it felt natural.

For those who don't like the controls and/or feel of the game did you actually look up the new control scheme for this year and read the control insight? Because without reading these I wouldn't know how to do half the moves I do and there is still tons more that I haven't figured out yet (waiting for retail to use training camp and get moves done pat).
 
# 66 Colts18 @ 09/25/11 10:38 AM
Quote:
Jayson Young: "NBA 2K12 seems to focus too much on the flash and glamour of basketball and not enough on the sport's fundamentals."
What the hell dude?
 
# 67 TreyIM2 @ 09/25/11 10:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyp180
This is something I'm wondering too. Out of any game I got out of the pass year 2k11 got the most play, so once I started the 2k12 demo I noticed an immediate difference to the feel and controls which threw off my game a bit but once I looked up the controls and played the demo more it felt natural.

For those who don't like the controls and/or feel of the game did you actually look up the new control scheme for this year and read the control insight? Because without reading these I wouldn't know how to do half the moves I do and there is still tons more that I haven't figured out yet (waiting for retail to use training camp and get moves done pat).
Apart of the problem with NBA2K is how the animations and momentum take you OUT OF CONTROL of the player. What it really comes down to is KNOWING the animations and how they play out. This game doesn't balance the fast twitch aspect of playing a video game very well. Not to mention, the control scheme can feel very un-intuitive and convoluted.
U add these things together and many a time a person is doing moves that they don't feel they actually did themselves. NBA 2K has had this feeling for a long time, now, seemingly since 2KSports took over the brand and I remember saying this to one of my friends while playing 2K6. I got fed up and left 2K7, and Live 07, for that matter, lol, in the stores not even bothering to buy a basketball game that year.

Now, after more and more play of this demo, I really believe there was a placebo effect that got to the NBA2K diehards. And what's funny is how if someone tried to speak on how this demo doesn't feel much different than 2K11, they'd get "textually" beat down on here but THEN you have someone in this roundtable who mentions how they've played the actual retail version and they basically confirm that this demo is not as tight, control wise, as the final version. Who deserves that beatdown, now? Brainwashing is very pervasive in this world and this site is not immune to it. Some of us see much clearer than others but popular thought blinds many...
 
# 68 deejay2 @ 09/25/11 10:52 AM
I'm a big sports game lover. I bought Xbox 360 just becouse Nba 2k8. But now I'm pissed off! There is not enough new things in NBA 2k every year. Passing still looks like a crap, player animations are also faaaaar from smooth. 2k will remaking this game for the next 50 years and after that we still won't get perfect basketball game. Believe me they could improve game a lot more every year but they don't want to!
 
# 69 TheKasmar @ 09/25/11 11:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TreyIM2
Apart of the problem with NBA2K is how the animations and momentum take you OUT OF CONTROL of the player. What it really comes down to is KNOWING the animations and how they play out. This game doesn't balance the fast twitch aspect of playing a video game very well. Not to mention, the control scheme can feel very un-intuitive and convoluted.
U add these things together and many a time a person is doing moves that they don't feel they actually did themselves.
Well said. This is why putting down 2k11 was a little easier for me because I know how all the animations are going to play out. Yes, I know how to avoid those annoying bump, charge, and steal animations, but at this point it feels like a chore and cant wait to play 2k12. With the changes made I hope to see less predictable gameplay for 2k12 also.
 
# 70 CX1329 @ 09/25/11 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deejay2
I'm a big sports game lover. I bought Xbox 360 just becouse Nba 2k8. But now I'm pissed off! There is not enough new things in NBA 2k every year. Passing still looks like a crap, player animations are also faaaaar from smooth. 2k will remaking this game for the next 50 years and after that we still won't get perfect basketball game. Believe me they could improve game a lot more every year but they don't want to!

I'm all for constructive criticism, but this isn't much more than a semi-elaborate version of "THIS GAME SUCKS!!". I'd be discouraged if I was a developer and read something like this.
 
# 71 mrmass413 @ 09/25/11 12:04 PM
i playd all 2k b-ball games and 2k11 was the best. this year seems better to me no game is perfect but it is the closest to the real thing imo. u have total control on collisions that alone warrants first day buy imo. besides they said demo is no where near as smooth as retail
 
# 72 elprez98 @ 09/25/11 12:06 PM
Well I think the round table is fine. It gives a good spectrum of opinions, as it should.

Steve comes across a 2k fan who appreciates some of the finer details that have been updated in 2k12.
Jayson comes across a Live fan who is understandably disappointed that 2k is the only game on the market.
Caley seems like the casual fan with whom basketball isn't his sport of choice, but enjoys the presentation in 2k12.

Dustin is the guy most likely to play with the Grizzlies and use Rudy Gay way too muc........wait wrong thread.

I think Dustin's opinion is a bit unfairly skewed due to the fact that he's already played a later build. In my opinion, this is one of the few times I'd be happy that my favorite game's demo is considered, "underwhelming."
 
# 73 adwin7 @ 09/25/11 12:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thevaliantx
Your point was well made, but you seem to be missing the old adage of "build it and they will come". You can not put out a crappy product (ie, demo) and claim to the folks you're trying to sell the game to that the demo is nothing like the real thing. It's a DEMOnstration of the real thing. A poor demonstration at that. That's like a car dealer saying "we have XYZ sports car for sale, it's just not viewable. What I need for you to is try out this ABC 4-cylinder look-alike car. It's really the same thing as the sport car that you want, just with a lesser motor and some things taken out because we feel that the average person taking this for a spin isn't going to be buying the real thing anyway. Let me know your offer!".
Their is a fundamental difference in our thinking though. The demo was not poor. Not one bit in my eyes. I most certainly play "sim ball" and have never liked the way players stand at the top of the key waiting for the play to work out, but I do like how this year unlike any other year picks are set very intelligently by the cpu, making guarding the ball handler take more thought and work than ever before. Also the cpu is passing smarter this year and the dynamic play system is very much at work when you watch players run off screens. Cpu players are more aggressive, i saw Lebron split the two defenders after coming off a pick, it was beautiful. This demo was meant to show the new things such as isomotion, the new shooting system and revamped movement(as far as gameplay,) which all feels good and markedly different from last years. It also show a lot more that I thought a "sim baller" with a discerning eye would immediately notice.
 
# 74 adwin7 @ 09/25/11 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackRome
I see the fan boys are out in force. The same fan boys who thought last years version was the greatest when it was the worst release game play wise since 2k6.

I don't see where they are to far off. In the demo the animations are to slow. Dribbling is a basic fundamental of basketball. It's been broke since 2k9 was released.

They decided to destroy the passing system last year and all but erased the first step from the game.

So yes the fundamentals of basketball like passing and dribbling still need to be corrected.

The ball last year did not get the correct height on passes. Way to easy to intercept. Passes wiz by players heads all the time. Not in 2k. Passing and dribbling hit their low points last year.

So yes the fundamentals were lacking.

From what Dustin said. The build he played was smoother and the animations were better. '

I hope he's right. I think most of you are just pick up basketball players. Maybe you made your high school team.

I've played on a very high level and have played against or with most of the dudes who came out of Philly that made the pros. I played in the games at McGonigle hall on Temple's campus with Kobe, Aaron Mckie and Eddie Jones. Kobe bussed Eddie behind so bad he ran and told Jerry West to draft him.

Remember. At the time Kobe was 17 and destroying a lock down all NBA defensive player. I had a front row seat. As the PG. Playing against Rick Brunson.

So let's just say I know the game.

2k11 sucked. Badly.
Thats your opinion and being on the same court with Kobe does not validate it any more. Maybe because I played with Mcgrady a couple of times my opinion should matter more(then get traded, a big contract, hurt and retire early.) 2k11 was a great game.
 
# 75 LS33 @ 09/25/11 01:30 PM
WE need 9 more days of info to keep us busy
 
# 76 clipperfan811 @ 09/25/11 02:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thevaliantx
Actually, if you even follow the real sport of basketball, you KNOW that 2K11 (and 2K12 is no different, going on the demo and history) does not focus on fundamentals. 2K11 wasn't realistic or fundamental. It was fun, against other human player, but the AI dribbler should NOT be standing at the top of the key dribbling out the shot clock, despite the human player trying to knock the ball away. It simply would not happen in real life. The AI should not be inbounding the ball to the same place each time, nor should the AI sprint up the court each time with the ball. Those are the types of things that 'sim baller' looks for, and it's the type of things that separate a sim baller from the guy who is focused on so-and-so's tattoos or what color socks some guy is wearing. Nothing wrong with the folks who play a basketball game because of its' looks, but we sim ballers definitely have a problem with a game that, after 11 versions, for all intents and purposes still does not realistically represent the game of basketball.
I'd be interested to know what basketball video game you think represents the game of basketball more realistically?

I'm not saying that there are no issues that could be improved on over time but that's exactly what I'm seeing.... Improvement over time, specifically very significant improvements from one year to the next.

The advancement it tendencies and signature animations has given us a game that when we play against the ai controlled Heat Chris Bosh is going to typically score from where real world Chris Bosh likes to score, so is Lebron, Wade and even Chamlers.

There will always be ways in which ai controlled opponents won't be capable of certain things a human would be (and when it does watch out... can you say Terminator). As it stands I feel these last two 2k incarnations are scary close to what basketball is about.
 
# 77 clipperfan811 @ 09/25/11 02:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elprez98
Well I think the round table is fine. It gives a good spectrum of opinions, as it should.

Steve comes across a 2k fan who appreciates some of the finer details that have been updated in 2k12.
Jayson comes across a Live fan who is understandably disappointed that 2k is the only game on the market.
Caley seems like the casual fan with whom basketball isn't his sport of choice, but enjoys the presentation in 2k12.

Dustin is the guy most likely to play with the Grizzlies and use Rudy Gay way too muc........wait wrong thread.

I think Dustin's opinion is a bit unfairly skewed due to the fact that he's already played a later build. In my opinion, this is one of the few times I'd be happy that my favorite game's demo is considered, "underwhelming."
I'm with you on this assessment, nice breakdown of the different perspectives.

It's pretty funny how extreme people get with their support and/or disapproval of games. There definitely are a few areas where I'd like to see improvements. Namely passing which I'll wait for the full version to dissect but movement is coming along nicely.

The most unplayable games from a movement perspective have been 2k5 and 2k10, I could totally live with 2k11 and 2k12 feels the closest to real life yet. Again I'll wait for the retail to dissect it but I can more than live with the demo's movement refinements.

For those who cling to NBA Live's right stick dribbling, I've actually done some nice back and forth stationary dribbling ala live in this 2k12 demo.

To me it feels really nice and realistic, especially watching Wade go to work it's so smooth and at times has legitimately gotten me off balance as it should.
 
# 78 DustinT @ 09/25/11 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elprez98
Well I think the round table is fine. It gives a good spectrum of opinions, as it should.

Steve comes across a 2k fan who appreciates some of the finer details that have been updated in 2k12.
Jayson comes across a Live fan who is understandably disappointed that 2k is the only game on the market.
Caley seems like the casual fan with whom basketball isn't his sport of choice, but enjoys the presentation in 2k12.

Dustin is the guy most likely to play with the Grizzlies and use Rudy Gay way too muc........wait wrong thread.

I think Dustin's opinion is a bit unfairly skewed due to the fact that he's already played a later build. In my opinion, this is one of the few times I'd be happy that my favorite game's demo is considered, "underwhelming."
Thats cuts deep
 
# 79 CX1329 @ 09/25/11 09:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thevaliantx
Actually I don't think ANY of the 2K basketball games (or any from the other publishers) represent the game of basketball realistically. Sliders hardly work as they claim to be designed for, so trying to get the games to play realistically, each year, is a futile effort. Fundamentals are absent from this year's game (If you are to believe that the demo is a DEMONSTRATION of the selling points of the retail game). The AI still doesn't have a clue about how to run an offense (it only reacts to the human player), and it still stands there at the top of the key like a lump on a pickle, dribbling the shot clock away. The computer teammates don't set picks unless you run a play where they are programmed to go to a certain spot on the court. The AI does not use the clock wisely as the game comes down the stretch. That last thing I just mentioned is not something I saw or did not see in a demo, it's just a very strong hunch AFTER 11 VERSIONS that it won't be something that's included in 2K12. So, which game do you think implemented the above-mentioned things?

I don't know what 2K games you've been playing, but they must not be the same ones I've been playing.
 
# 80 kolanji @ 09/26/11 01:22 PM
Dustin;unlike the rest of the roundtable actually played a later version of nba 2k12 and not just the demo and this actually gives me even more encouragement as to appreciate his opinion on the demo more so overall.
 


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