NBA 2K12 Demo Roundtable

[adwin7]

Quote: Originally Posted by thevaliantx

Your point was well made, but you seem to be missing the old adage of "build it and they will come". You can not put out a crappy product (ie, demo) and claim to the folks you're trying to sell the game to that the demo is nothing like the real thing. It's a DEMOnstration of the real thing. A poor demonstration at that. That's like a car dealer saying "we have XYZ sports car for sale, it's just not viewable. What I need for you to is try out this ABC 4-cylinder look-alike car. It's really the same thing as the sport car that you want, just with a lesser motor and some things taken out because we feel that the average person taking this for a spin isn't going to be buying the real thing anyway. Let me know your offer!".

Their is a fundamental difference in our thinking though. The demo was not poor. Not one bit in my eyes. I most certainly play "sim ball" and have never liked the way players stand at the top of the key waiting for the play to work out, but I do like how this year unlike any other year picks are set very intelligently by the cpu, making guarding the ball handler take more thought and work than ever before. Also the cpu is passing smarter this year and the dynamic play system is very much at work when you watch players run off screens. Cpu players are more aggressive, i saw Lebron split the two defenders after coming off a pick, it was beautiful. This demo was meant to show the new things such as isomotion, the new shooting system and revamped movement(as far as gameplay,) which all feels good and markedly different from last years. It also show a lot more that I thought a "sim baller" with a discerning eye would immediately notice.

[adwin7]

Quote: Originally Posted by BlackRome

I see the fan boys are out in force. The same fan boys who thought last years version was the greatest when it was the worst release game play wise since 2k6. I don't see where they are to far off. In the demo the animations are to slow. Dribbling is a basic fundamental of basketball. It's been broke since 2k9 was released. They decided to destroy the passing system last year and all but erased the first step from the game. So yes the fundamentals of basketball like passing and dribbling still need to be corrected. The ball last year did not get the correct height on passes. Way to easy to intercept. Passes wiz by players heads all the time. Not in 2k. Passing and dribbling hit their low points last year. So yes the fundamentals were lacking. From what Dustin said. The build he played was smoother and the animations were better. ' I hope he's right. I think most of you are just pick up basketball players. Maybe you made your high school team. I've played on a very high level and have played against or with most of the dudes who came out of Philly that made the pros. I played in the games at McGonigle hall on Temple's campus with Kobe, Aaron Mckie and Eddie Jones. Kobe bussed Eddie behind so bad he ran and told Jerry West to draft him. Remember. At the time Kobe was 17 and destroying a lock down all NBA defensive player. I had a front row seat. As the PG. Playing against Rick Brunson. So let's just say I know the game. 2k11 sucked. Badly.

Thats your opinion and being on the same court with Kobe does not validate it any more. Maybe because I played with Mcgrady a couple of times my opinion should matter more(then get traded, a big contract, hurt and retire early.) 2k11 was a great game.

[LS33]

WE need 9 more days of info to keep us busy

[clipperfan811]

Quote: Originally Posted by thevaliantx

Actually, if you even follow the real sport of basketball, you KNOW that 2K11 (and 2K12 is no different, going on the demo and history) does not focus on fundamentals. 2K11 wasn't realistic or fundamental. It was fun, against other human player, but the AI dribbler should NOT be standing at the top of the key dribbling out the shot clock, despite the human player trying to knock the ball away. It simply would not happen in real life. The AI should not be inbounding the ball to the same place each time, nor should the AI sprint up the court each time with the ball. Those are the types of things that 'sim baller' looks for, and it's the type of things that separate a sim baller from the guy who is focused on so-and-so's tattoos or what color socks some guy is wearing. Nothing wrong with the folks who play a basketball game because of its' looks, but we sim ballers definitely have a problem with a game that, after 11 versions, for all intents and purposes still does not realistically represent the game of basketball.

I'd be interested to know what basketball video game you think represents the game of basketball more realistically?

I'm not saying that there are no issues that could be improved on over time but that's exactly what I'm seeing.... Improvement over time, specifically very significant improvements from one year to the next.

The advancement it tendencies and signature animations has given us a game that when we play against the ai controlled Heat Chris Bosh is going to typically score from where real world Chris Bosh likes to score, so is Lebron, Wade and even Chamlers.

There will always be ways in which ai controlled opponents won't be capable of certain things a human would be (and when it does watch out... can you say Terminator). As it stands I feel these last two 2k incarnations are scary close to what basketball is about.

[clipperfan811]

Quote: Originally Posted by elprez98

Well I think the round table is fine. It gives a good spectrum of opinions, as it should. Steve comes across a 2k fan who appreciates some of the finer details that have been updated in 2k12. Jayson comes across a Live fan who is understandably disappointed that 2k is the only game on the market. Caley seems like the casual fan with whom basketball isn't his sport of choice, but enjoys the presentation in 2k12. Dustin is the guy most likely to play with the Grizzlies and use Rudy Gay way too muc........wait wrong thread. I think Dustin's opinion is a bit unfairly skewed due to the fact that he's already played a later build. In my opinion, this is one of the few times I'd be happy that my favorite game's demo is considered, "underwhelming."

I'm with you on this assessment, nice breakdown of the different perspectives.

It's pretty funny how extreme people get with their support and/or disapproval of games. There definitely are a few areas where I'd like to see improvements. Namely passing which I'll wait for the full version to dissect but movement is coming along nicely.

The most unplayable games from a movement perspective have been 2k5 and 2k10, I could totally live with 2k11 and 2k12 feels the closest to real life yet. Again I'll wait for the retail to dissect it but I can more than live with the demo's movement refinements.

For those who cling to NBA Live's right stick dribbling, I've actually done some nice back and forth stationary dribbling ala live in this 2k12 demo.

To me it feels really nice and realistic, especially watching Wade go to work it's so smooth and at times has legitimately gotten me off balance as it should.

[DustinT]

Quote: Originally Posted by elprez98

Well I think the round table is fine. It gives a good spectrum of opinions, as it should. Steve comes across a 2k fan who appreciates some of the finer details that have been updated in 2k12. Jayson comes across a Live fan who is understandably disappointed that 2k is the only game on the market. Caley seems like the casual fan with whom basketball isn't his sport of choice, but enjoys the presentation in 2k12. Dustin is the guy most likely to play with the Grizzlies and use Rudy Gay way too muc........wait wrong thread. I think Dustin's opinion is a bit unfairly skewed due to the fact that he's already played a later build. In my opinion, this is one of the few times I'd be happy that my favorite game's demo is considered, "underwhelming."

Thats cuts deep

[thevaliantx]

Quote: Originally Posted by clipperfan811

I'd be interested to know what basketball video game you think represents the game of basketball more realistically? I'm not saying that there are no issues that could be improved on over time but that's exactly what I'm seeing.... Improvement over time, specifically very significant improvements from one year to the next. The advancement it tendencies and signature animations has given us a game that when we play against the ai controlled Heat Chris Bosh is going to typically score from where real world Chris Bosh likes to score, so is Lebron, Wade and even Chamlers. There will always be ways in which ai controlled opponents won't be capable of certain things a human would be (and when it does watch out... can you say Terminator). As it stands I feel these last two 2k incarnations are scary close to what basketball is about.

Actually I don't think ANY of the 2K basketball games (or any from the other publishers) represent the game of basketball realistically. Sliders hardly work as they claim to be designed for, so trying to get the games to play realistically, each year, is a futile effort. Fundamentals are absent from this year's game (If you are to believe that the demo is a DEMONSTRATION of the selling points of the retail game). The AI still doesn't have a clue about how to run an offense (it only reacts to the human player), and it still stands there at the top of the key like a lump on a pickle, dribbling the shot clock away. The computer teammates don't set picks unless you run a play where they are programmed to go to a certain spot on the court. The AI does not use the clock wisely as the game comes down the stretch. That last thing I just mentioned is not something I saw or did not see in a demo, it's just a very strong hunch AFTER 11 VERSIONS that it won't be something that's included in 2K12. So, which game do you think implemented the above-mentioned things?

[CX1329]

Quote: Originally Posted by thevaliantx

Actually I don't think ANY of the 2K basketball games (or any from the other publishers) represent the game of basketball realistically. Sliders hardly work as they claim to be designed for, so trying to get the games to play realistically, each year, is a futile effort. Fundamentals are absent from this year's game (If you are to believe that the demo is a DEMONSTRATION of the selling points of the retail game). The AI still doesn't have a clue about how to run an offense (it only reacts to the human player), and it still stands there at the top of the key like a lump on a pickle, dribbling the shot clock away. The computer teammates don't set picks unless you run a play where they are programmed to go to a certain spot on the court. The AI does not use the clock wisely as the game comes down the stretch. That last thing I just mentioned is not something I saw or did not see in a demo, it's just a very strong hunch AFTER 11 VERSIONS that it won't be something that's included in 2K12. So, which game do you think implemented the above-mentioned things?

I don't know what 2K games you've been playing, but they must not be the same ones I've been playing.