Madden 2010 News Post

Madden NFL 10 Blog: The Importance of an Early Community Day (New Screenshot Included

05:59 PM - April 13, 2009 by Ian_Cummings

Check out the new Madden NFL 10 blog. This one features the importance of an early community day.

Quote:


	"On April 10, we flew in 8 of the most hardcore Madden fans for a marathon testing day to get an extremely early look at our Alpha build and provide feedback based on where the game is thus far. You may ask, �What is new about this? Haven�t you had community events in the past?� Yes, we have done these before, but there are some key differences."

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Member Comments

# 221 NYyankz225 @ 04/14/09 12:34 AM

If you don't see how APF 2k8 has less user control than Madden you're blind to how games work.

Ian (or anyone for that matter) could create the most realistic looking game ever if everything from the snap of the ball to the whistle was completely controlled by noninterruptable, non user controlled animations. It'd make his job a lot easier thats for sure. Fortunately, from his comments so far, he will always choose to give the user control when possible. 2k didn't take this approach. Can you honestly say that you have NEVER had a moment in a 2k where you felt what you were doing with the controller didn't happen on the screen? It happens all the time. Sure, when you're watching a replay or a friend play it looks nice and seems "realistic" but it's frustrating when you lose control of a player and it goes into canned animations. Ian's (or Tiburon's I should say) approach (branching, layered animations) is much more difficult to pull off and is going to take time to perfect. I personally appreciate the effort.

Of course this "forced qb dropback" does go against that general belief, but again, even if Madden adds some of these aspects, the amount of control you have over your player is still higher than 2k has ever had. And it sounds like Ian is still tinkering with branching animations to allow you to interrupt it when necessary.

And coach, I'm just hoping LBzrule comes in and embarrasses you with more football knowledge in one post than you have in your whole head. The dude is one of the most knowledgeable football guy you'll see. He and adembroski have both coached AND played, something I doubt you've ever done. You can't even seem to string together a single coherent sentence. Please don't embarass yourself anymore.

# 222 NFLHITMAN @ 04/14/09 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by g2thecore


	Dude chill out. These guys that you're insulting know their stuff. They played an alpha build of the game, not a final retail build. That's the whole point of having them there so early, is so issues like what you've pointed out don't get shipped with the game. You're sitting here insulting Kane's football knowledge because he said that Madden 09 was a good game. Well it was, it was one of the best ones we got in the next-gen era. It was playable to a certain extent. Sure it had issues, and it needed vast improvements, but what game doesn't? I understand your concerns, but rest assured that these guys provided Ian the kind of feedback that will prevent these issues from popping up on our final builds.

Coach Ruckus is not a new person to Madden LOL. He was on the Madden bus for Madden Nation at one time. That should tell you something considering he used to love Madden but even a very good tournament player like himself has lost faith. Coach Ruckus wants the game to be fixed and he is tired of all the sugar coating that is going on with it. I am surprised he posted something because he usually doesn't. He usually just stays on the outside watching.

Good stuff Coach!

# 223 NFLHITMAN @ 04/14/09 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coach_ruckus


	Yooo Hitman some of these guys havent played any 2k gms, they think a hand towel is cool and dont care about the Xs and Os of the game lol

Hey I loved the new picture of Hasselbeck

Maybe because I am a Seahawk fan

I did post a 2K Community saying though.....

" If you want shiny helmets buy Madden but if you want Game Play buy 2K! "

# 224 coach_ruckus @ 04/14/09 12:37 AM

dude ive gotta do a dear madden on this my god people are happy to see hand towels and dont care about game play. Please guys dont be fooled by pictures. how many years have we see nice pictures and got bad game play. we need to ask real questions

# 225 streamline @ 04/14/09 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coach_ruckus


	dude ive gotta do a dear madden on this my god people are happy to see hand towels and dont care about game play. Please guys dont be fooled by pictures. how many years have we see nice pictures and got bad game play. we need to ask real questions

i see your point, but we are in april and the game doesn't drop until august. we should be happy that the madden team has decided to consult us to make sure that the complaints will be minimal this year since its impossible to make a perfect game. maybe ian will surprise us this year

# 226 coach_ruckus @ 04/14/09 12:43 AM

Ea should of brought in 2k fans, backbreaker fans and guys who are not sure if they want to spend their money on the game not fan boys who think they put out a good game every year. the madden guys will always buy the game.

# 227 g2thecore @ 04/14/09 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NFLHITMAN


	Coach Ruckus is not a new person to Madden LOL. He was on the Madden bus for Madden Nation at one time. That should tell you something considering he used to love Madden but even a very good tournament player like himself has lost faith. Coach Ruckus wants the game to be fixed and he is tired of all the sugar coating that is going on with it. I am surprised he posted something because he usually doesn't. He usually just stays on the outside watching. Good stuff Coach!

First, I know who coach ruckus is. But honestly, even in his state of "fame" he shouldn't come on these boards talking reckless.

To the "coach", I never said that Madden 09 was better than any 2K game. Go back and read my post, I never mentioned 2K in fact.

Second, I understand the points that you were making. The reason why I posted was because of the tone used to approach your concerns. You were attacking these guys' football knowledge, their understanding of x's and o's. I don't think that's a diplomatic way of approaching things. That's my beef.

Don't misconstrue anything that I said as me saying that Madden 09 was better than this or better than that. My point was that, Kane699 said that it was a fun game to play, and honestly it was. That's my opinion. But as you probably already understand (or maybe I should still point it out to you), fun does not mean that the game did not have it's fair share of problems.

# 228 streamline @ 04/14/09 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coach_ruckus


	Ea should of brought in 2k fans, backbreaker fans and guys who are not sure if they want to spend their money on the game not fan boys who think they put out a good game every year. the madden guys will always buy the game.

lol the only thing backbreaker has going for it are the tackling animations and even those look suspect to be even remotely sim. backbreakers looks like nfl blitz lite

# 229 NYyankz225 @ 04/14/09 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coach_ruckus


	Ea should of brought in 2k fans, backbreaker fans and guys who are not sure if they want to spend their money on the game not fan boys who think they put out a good game every year. the madden guys will always buy the game.

You don't even know anything about the people that came, how can you make this assumption? None of the people that went are "Madden guys". Spend some time here and you'd see that.

# 230 g2thecore @ 04/14/09 12:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coach_ruckus


	Ea should of brought in 2k fans, backbreaker fans and guys who are not sure if they want to spend their money on the game not fan boys who think they put out a good game every year. the madden guys will always buy the game.

See that's what I'm talking about right there.

Have you seen any of LBzRule's earlier posts (pre Madden 10)? What about BeZo or Joborule? These guys are far from your ordinary "Madden guys". These guys know their stuff, and they've been known to be very vocal about their dislikes about the Madden series. And you should probably go read Ian's blog today, where he talked about The Watcher bringing in a copy of 2K5 into the EA studios.

Hey just cuz they don't make "dear Madden" videos, doesn't mean they're Maddenites.

# 231 coach_ruckus @ 04/14/09 12:50 AM

ok lets go back. now lets talk football101

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJrZRGmCiJA

now watch that and let me know if any of these were answered at Ea madden day

#2 have you ever played football in high school or just any football im not trying to be funny but have you. once you answer that ill go on

# 232 Valdarez @ 04/14/09 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NYyankz225


	If you don't see how APF 2k8 has less user control than Madden you're blind to how games work.

Thanks for clarifying your point. I now understand your position fully, and realize that the 1000+ games I have played, the community site I run, and the host of videos I have posted means I know nothing of the game. And, for the record, I am legally blind in one eye, so your comment is extremely perceptive on multiple fronts.

So are canned animations your basis for claiming there is less control? Because both games have canned animations, and both are pretty random when a play is being made from what I have seen / played of Madden and APF2K8. I think you would have had more of a leg to stand on with the instant directional changes in Madden which definitely give you more control, just not in a realistic manner.

I agree that most animations (other than user moves) are not under your control. They are canned, but that's the same for both games. I just want the QB drop back to be fluid, consistent in how I control them, and to allow me to adjust without penalty if I do so properly (in other words don't penalize me for reading a blitz, stopping early to make a throw).

# 233 cowboysfan440 @ 04/14/09 12:54 AM

i love how you see the reflection of the stadium on the helmet

# 234 LBzrule @ 04/14/09 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGaither84


	Something that honestly worries me about the forced drop back, that I am otherwise in favor of, is the nano blitz. I fear that there may be nano blitzes in M10 and if there are there will be no real counter for them. I hate to break off right away from my drop but if people can nano blitz, you need ot be aware of it and avoid it. Also, I think one of the other solutions ot the run n chuck is what LBzrule has said many times before. Proper DE containemnt to prevent the roll out. I do like forced drop back agaisnt those who run backwards the whole time, but they will do that anyway after the drop back, wont they?

I tried running backwards on a few occasions, it did not feel natural coming out of the drop and running backwards. The QB had to "start up again." And I hope they keep that part that way.

# 235 coach_ruckus @ 04/14/09 12:56 AM

all these guys who are happy over some towels i want to know if you played real football out side

# 236 Ian_Cummings @ 04/14/09 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheTodd84


	I hate to sound like a debbie downer here, but I'm going to bc something just completely irritated me about that blog. Loved the community day, but I was dissecting that image of the "common issues" on the blog and most of them are issues that should not still be propping up with all of the new stuff... on the running plays it says that the OL let's the LB in too much and doesn't get to the 2nd level. Why was this not addressed? This should have been addressed BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE was put into the game. On the pass blocking, it says that the D-ends are firing in too much and the O-Line isn't firing off at a 45 degree angle. Again, why wasn't this one of the first things addressed? The SINGLE BIGGEST complaint from 09 was the OL-DL interaction. One other thing deeply concerned me, and that was on their list of simulation aspects that they were working on. The two that stood out for me were: - Lower “tolerance” amount on tackles and blocks (much less suction) - Much lower ‘warp’ amount on catch animations. Umm... first of all, 'Lower tolerance'? There should be NO tolerance or suction AT ALL bc that is not realistic in the least bit. The OL and blocking animations should have been re-done. And lower 'warp' on catches? Again, there should be NO warp on catches at all and if a ball is out of reach, then it should hit the turf or be intercepted, etc. I really hope these issues are totally addressed by release or they will once again be game-killers. Not to be cynical, but after reading that blog, I am still excited, but taking a wait-and-see approach with this game. These are deeply concerning issues that should have been addressed from day one. I love the idea of them being so open and I hope they continue to be in the future. It is amazing to be able to read their blogs and get updates on the game. So, for the next 7 weeks, EA's list of things to improve should be as follows: 1.) OL-DL interaction 2.) OL-DL interaction 3.) OL-DL intercation 4.) OL-DL interaction and 5.) OL-DL interaction. Just like a good, successful football team, winning is predicated on fundamentals, blocking and tackling. Football games should be the same way. Without good blocking and tackling, the game cannot be realistic, or be as successful as it should be. Am I the only one who noticed that picture? And Am I the only one who was concerned by that picture of the issues the guys pointed out?

Please read my posts in this thread. We have obviously made drastic changes in many areas related to blocking. What that means in game development is often a total re-write or scrapping of much of the code that was previously used. This is like the 4th or 5th post saying the same thing - that we should have addressed X, Y, or Z from DAY ONE and I guess I understand the concern but it's frustrating because we DID address it from day one. But nothing from before applies anymore...when you scrap old systems you have to re-tune everything.

Second, as for 'warping' and 'suction', those terms are used inside our company differently from what you all use them as. Suction as you know it is all but eliminated on tackles and wraps and such. Catch warping as you know it has been improved drastically from last year...but there is still some stuff that we're working on. IMO major improvement to something that has been a problem in the Madden series for the past 4 years can't be a "game killer", but I can understand your concern.

# 237 g2thecore @ 04/14/09 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	I tried running backwards on a few occasions, it did not feel natural coming out of the drop and running backwards. The QB had to "start up again." And I hope they keep that part that way.

That sounds good, I hope they keep that as well.

# 238 coach_ruckus @ 04/14/09 01:02 AM

come on ian are you sure?? because it seems like you guys at EA wont answer the sim questions 2k fans have been asking for years. I love what your doing and im glad you got rid of the baseball team but come on if you say its in the game why not make it in the game

# 239 NYyankz225 @ 04/14/09 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Valdarez


	Thanks for clarifying your point. I now understand your position fully, and realize that the 1000+ games I have played, the community site I run, and the host of videos I have posted means I know nothing of the game. And, for the record, I am legally blind in one eye, so your comment is extremely perceptive on multiple fronts. So are canned animations your basis for claiming there is less control? Because both games have canned animations, and both are pretty random when a play is being made from what I have seen / played of Madden and APF2K8. I think you would have had more of a leg to stand on with the instant directional changes in Madden which definitely give you more control, just not in a realistic manner. I agree that most animations (other than user moves) are not under your control. They are canned, but that's the same for both games. I just want the QB drop back to be fluid, consistent in how I control them, and to allow me to adjust without penalty if I do so properly (in other words don't penalize me for reading a blitz, stopping early to make a throw).

First of all, besides the fact that I had not meant blind in a visual sense, but simply as a metaphorical way of showing an understanding of how games are made, I hope I didn't offend you by my comment. Blindness is nothing to joke about and I know some close people who suffer from eye related issues that makes their life hell. Obviously I had no idea about your situation but I hope I didn't cause you to be upset.

Anyway, both definitely do have canned animations and Madden definitely isn't immune. The biggest issue is user catching which has been an issue in earlier next gen Maddens specifically. You can press the "catch button" early with almost no penalty as the actual catch or jump animation will only trigger when the ball is close to the player. In 2k this is superior because if you press the jump button your player WILL jump/go for the catch regardless...but that's the only area. As far as running and player interaction 2k has always had more canned animations.

Madden has been moving to a branching (the ability to trigger/interrupt an animation to go into another based on user input/the situation) system which is far superior to the 2k method. It allows a much more dynamic feel, but the penalty for more openness is that it requires a lot more work to make sure if looks/feels "realistic". I'm confident that Madden will make HUGE strides in this aspect and this will be the thing that blows people away. This branching and layered animation system will play a big part in the new pileup feature.

# 240 Valdarez @ 04/14/09 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA


	IMO major improvement to something that has been a problem in the Madden series for the past 4 years can't be a "game killer", but I can understand your concern.

I think the difference that it sounds like you are looking at it from a software perspective, itemizing the defects based on criticality (for some reason I want to say Flawless Victory now... but I digress) as you warrant it. The gamers are obviously going to rank these items differently, based on their expectations / desires.

When you say 'warp' catch, to me that's the defensive superman float interception, where the DB slides in the air floating one to two yards towards the ball, even though their body movement may have had them going in an opposite direction. That's what I'm calling Warp, and that's in my top 10 list of items that break Madden, and ruin the passing game for me. Is my definition different from what you have labeled as a Warp?

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