Madden 2010 News Post

Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum

04:54 PM - March 16, 2009 by Ian_Cummings

Check out the latest Madden NFL 10 blog. This one covers player momentum.

Quote:


	"Hey Madden fans, it's that time again...time for another weekly blog update! Last week, I shared some of the details around the successes and challenges we've had in trying to create simulation gameplay for Madden NFL 10. To be clear, 'simulation' gameplay isn't new - IMO it's what put EA SPORTS (and Madden) on the map in the early 90's after all. Well this week we wanted to touch on one of the biggest aspects in creating an NFL sim, and as you might expect, this is also usually most difficult to get to an area where it still 'feels right'. That aspect is Player Momentum. Creating momentum in a football game is typically handled in many different ways, so today I'm going to just touch on one key area (and leave other topics for future weeks)."

Game: Madden NFL 10Reader Score: 7.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Wii / Xbox 360Votes for game: 76 - View All

Madden NFL 10 Videos

Member Comments

# 41 kcarr @ 03/16/09 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe


	Player with better route running skill should have a much sharper turn rate!

I don't know about that. Route running should determine the quality of the fakes made, the accuracy of the routes, the separation gained at the point of the cut, etc. The turns should be based on agility mostly. The plant/turns should be based on acceleration with maybe some agility.

Of course, great route runners usually have great acceleration and agility which helps them make their cuts even better. This allows players to be great in any of the three areas but no matter how skilled a player is at running routes, there will be limitations if the other areas are weak. No matter how well a player accelerates or how agile he is it won't make them great route runners because the defense will be much more able to read their routes allowing them to stay ahead. That said, being great in any one area can be used as a weapon.

# 42 ghostlight85 @ 03/16/09 06:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	He's not making cuts in these videos. This is to illustrate you can't just instantly change directions while running full speed anymore. I specifically asked on twitter, "Can I lay off the stick a bit to get my guy to plant and make a cut?", and he said yes, that's exactly how it works.

If that's the case, and it works well, then I'm fine with that. The problem is that it's such a tricky feel to manually decelerate, cut and go without losing too much speed for it to be effective. It's hard to get just right, and I'm just worried that often even if you feel like you timed it right and everything it will still seem like you don't get that plant and go feel.

# 43 sin18 @ 03/16/09 06:31 PM

Ian, Great start with the whole momentum blog

This will make a huuuge difference in the way the game is played, how people attack the run and the pass...defense will be a hole new ball game (all the more reason to keep in gameplay playmaker, Toss, run right/run left[momentum for counter plays])

guillotine does raise a good point about the full stride and keeping the exact same sprinting animation, but i'm sure your already on that to certain extent

keep the good news comming!

# 44 KANE699 @ 03/16/09 06:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillotine 1


	I want to work through this openly, so we all understnad what were getting, expecting, and what Ian is doing. This way the results will be what we all want. When I looked at the runner running in those videos, it didn't look, or seem to feel real or right. In my humble opinion, the runner was on the wrong foot at times. He would lean, step, turn on his pivot feet going the other way, and then the correct leg would move and the cooresponding foot would hit the ground. He runner never put his head up, shoulders back, and strided through his max speed with a sprinters form. Go back, watch the tape. This is good, but....nevermind...

I like the points your making but I don't think they are meant to show up in this video.

Not to say that what you're asking for will be in later but, this whole video is based on the turning of a player (mostly with the ball in his hand) at full speed or close to it. I don't see a chance for any of the players in these videos to even reach full speed going straight to open up stride, and the whole point of this video was to show off the turning, now what I can't wait for honestly is to see this now show up on the Defensive ends leaning underneath offensive tackles to get past them to get to the quaterback rather than running upright the whole time in an attempt to make a sack.

# 45 Cryolemon @ 03/16/09 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stroehmerbasebal


	I like that quote. I think a player should have knowledge of the game to win.

Yeah, it was a positive =0.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	Knowledge + Execution. I don't want them to go TOO far the other way. It's one thing to make the right calls, but the team's execution is based on "stick skills". If someone who knew football picked it up and beat someone who'd been playing for years, there'd be something wrong. I don't think Ian was quite being literal... the hope is that the Madden Challenge folks in the next few years will be people will and equal share knowledge of the game, strong tactical mind, and stick skills. BTW, this is cool... this is PRECISELY the issue I layed into Ian about back in '09 that eventually brought him to MM, and to OS. Yeah, I'm taking credit, bitches, deal.

Exactly, there needs to be a balance between the two things, but a guy who has average stick skill but no coaching ability should lose to a guy with average stick skills who is a football coach.

# 46 GoToledo @ 03/16/09 06:53 PM

Great job, Ian. As always, I am coming around to Madden a little more each week.

# 47 SageInfinite @ 03/16/09 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Derrville


	What about the ball physics? The last gen is so much better, you can put the ball wherever you wanted, over corners heads, over LBs heads, hit guys in stride without doing weird alligator arms slow down thing. More than 2 different passes. Once i see that and improved line play im sold.

Good point. I'd like to see improved ball physics as well. Last gen was definitely better, but I'd definitely like to see them improve beyond those if possible.

Either way it's March and Madden is already looking MUCH improved. I can't say I've ever been looking forward to Madden this early.

# 48 briax87 @ 03/16/09 06:57 PM

Great blog Ian, the momentum and player agility looks a lot better. Looks like it will have a big effect in 2010.

# 49 xX CASCABEL Xx @ 03/16/09 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillotine 1


	In the very first run video, the ball carrier makes his first turn to the right. He has his right foot on the ground, and then go turns to the right with his left foot in the air....this is wrong human locomotion. If I want to go right, my left foot should be on the groun. I f I want to go left, then my right foot shoult be on the ground. ...and Ian...please. Please for the life of me...create a top speed run animation with correct sprinter form. Head up, shoulders back, and feet kicking out in a full blow sprint. Come on man, please. I am so not trying to deflate the board or not give love. Like I said, I love the news addition.

I see what you are saying however it is a work in progress, it is only going to get better, it is already better than 09, the next few monthes should be interisting...

# 50 adembroski @ 03/16/09 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostlight85


	If that's the case, and it works well, then I'm fine with that. The problem is that it's such a tricky feel to manually decelerate, cut and go without losing too much speed for it to be effective. It's hard to get just right, and I'm just worried that often even if you feel like you timed it right and everything it will still seem like you don't get that plant and go feel.

This is basically how it worked Last Gen, and it worked well then.

# 51 Von Dozier @ 03/16/09 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickywal


	Leave the running animation alone for now dude. Its probably something they are addressing later. This is about player momentum not the sprint animation. I see what you mean about what foot should be on the ground, but this is a computer game and if I want to turn left but need to wait based on what foot is down it won't be so responsive. When playing the game I am watching defenders and looking for holes, not my players feet. I wouldn't be happy to take the hit on gameplay to make sure the players correct foot is down when turning.

This.

# 52 thudias @ 03/16/09 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rickywal


	Leave the running animation alone for now dude. Its probably something they are addressing later. This is about player momentum not the sprint animation. I see what you mean about what foot should be on the ground, but this is a computer game and if I want to turn left but need to wait based on what foot is down it won't be so responsive. When playing the game I am watching defenders and looking for holes, not my players feet. I wouldn't be happy to take the hit on gameplay to make sure the players correct foot is down when turning.

I actually see what you are saying locomotion is the point of the blog not player specific animation. I am not saying that other point isn't valid.

# 53 green94 @ 03/16/09 07:20 PM

Loved the quote at the end referring to a Head Coach never playing Madden beating one of those guys on the Madden Challenge!

# 54 Cryolemon @ 03/16/09 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgun styles


	I'll repeat my question: Does the CPU have to play with these physics in Madden mode, or can the CPU just start compressing animations when it gets out of position? Having great momentum is useless if only the human controlled players have to abide by it.

I can't see why they'd let the CPU cheat it.

# 55 Ian_Cummings @ 03/16/09 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guillotine 1


	I am being as understanding as I can. 2K5 did this right. FIFA does this right..nevermind...

Good feedback.

FYI, the ballcarrier has an entirely different set of cuts and plants as soon as you let off of the stick or slow down...so you don't have to "turn" when you want to go somewhere. This blog was geared specifically for turn rates. You can call it rushed...it still took me over an hour to capture and write everything (on my busiest day so far of the year).

Regardless, to your point about not blending correctly based on having a certain foot forward - actually to my knowledge no game accurately does that. It is something that is given away for responsiveness. Meaning, if i have a juke animation that starts with my right foot on the ground, and I am running in a sprint, it will play that same animation whether my right foot just left the ground or whether my left foot is down - and blend appropriately. I actually talked with FIFA guys about this once...and they prototyped this - it just felt miserable to do something on your controller, and sit there and wait for a guy to complete a full phase of locomotion before he responds to that command.

It would be similar to an NBA game waiting to make a move until the ball was up in your hand...responsiveness would likely suffer too much.

I bet some of you guys would probably dig it though.

# 56 Ian_Cummings @ 03/16/09 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shotgun styles


	I'll repeat my question: Does the CPU have to play with these physics in Madden mode, or can the CPU just start compressing animations when it gets out of position? Having great momentum is useless if only the human controlled players have to abide by it.

User and CPU share the same model.

# 57 Ian_Cummings @ 03/16/09 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	Hey man, much thanks for showing how it will impact defense!!

That was actually just for you.

I was going to do ballcarrier only but I thought about your last few posts.

# 58 CapnKill @ 03/16/09 07:31 PM

Another step in the right direction! Don't be afraid to look at more of the PS2 game for ideas, it did a lot of things very well

I know one of your goals is for people to stop comparing Madden to NFL2k, but it should also be to stop comparing Madden NG w/ the PS2 version...

# 59 NYG34 @ 03/16/09 07:32 PM

Ian i have a quick Question will their be any crowd noise in the game. cause madden 09 crowd is dead. and i really hope u guy were able to fix that

# 60 BezO @ 03/16/09 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostlight85


	I watched the videos a few more times and I still am happy about the overall impact I think it will have on the game, but I also want to float an idea. Top runners like LT and in the past guys like Barry Sanders don't run like that. They would if they were making turns to stay at top speed, but there should be some system where I can control them like the run in real life. They need to make sharp, change of direction cuts and this should be built into the foot plant thing. They do need to slow down to do this, and explode out of it. The problem is how to trigger the animation from a user end without just pressing a button. Juke moves are there, but I'm talking about just agility based cutting and acceleration based explosion out of the cut. This is where most runners pick up yards, not from a juke or a truck. I don't think with the current controls it is possible to effectively run like Barry Sanders, even when using a player with a comparable rating set to what he would have had. The only thing I can think is to add some sort of trigger modifier to enable the foot planting to be more dominant in the running style. So with no trigger the player would run much like what you showed in the video. But with the trigger on, a cut would result in a foot plant and then release the trigger and run/sprint to explode out of it. Pressing the button shouldn't make an animation of a cut happen, just enable foot planting so that a sharper cut will be the result when i change directions with the left stick, rather than one of the rounded turns as in the video. Just an idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	He's not making cuts in these videos. This is to illustrate you can't just instantly change directions while running full speed anymore. I specifically asked on twitter, "Can I lay off the stick a bit to get my guy to plant and make a cut?", and he said yes, that's exactly how it works.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ghostlight85


	If that's the case, and it works well, then I'm fine with that. The problem is that it's such a tricky feel to manually decelerate, cut and go without losing too much speed for it to be effective. It's hard to get just right, and I'm just worried that often even if you feel like you timed it right and everything it will still seem like you don't get that plant and go feel.

Yeah, I expected to see much more cutting & less turning. No way I want to be responsible for decelerating to see a cut animation. I'd prefer the deceleration be automatic when you attempt to change direction. This is not what I was hoping for.

So, for those who play Super Star mode and pick a WR, when they run their routes, they'll have to decelerate before breaks?

And ghostlight, I too want a modifier similar to FIFA or NBA 2K. Maybe when using it, a player could run more under control in preparation for cuts & such.

« Previous 1 234 5 6 7 8 9 Next »

More Links

Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Momentum