Complete WC/DS schedule

2012 MLB playoff schedule: Postseason set | Big League Stew - Yahoo! Sports (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/2012-mlb-postseason-picture-set-022136424--mlb.html)

(all times TBD unless listed, all games broadcast on TBS )

Friday's wild card play-in games
(winners advance to LDS round)
NL — St. Louis Cardinals at Atlanta Braves, 5 p.m. ET
AL — Baltimore Orioles at Texas Rangers, 8:30 p.m. ET

Saturday
ALDS Game 1 — Oakland Athletics at Detroit Tigers, 6 p.m. ET
NLDS Game 1 — Cincinnati Reds at San Francisco Giants, 9:30 p.m. ET

Sunday
ALDS Game 1 — New York Yankees at Baltimore or Texas
NLDS Game 1 — Washington Nationals at Atlanta or St. Louis
ALDS Game 2 — Oakland at Detroit
NLDS Game 2 — Cincinnati at San Francisco

Monday
ALDS Game 2 — New York at Baltimore/Texas
NLDS Game 2 — Washington at Atlanta/St. Louis

Tuesday
ALDS Game 3 — Detroit at Oakland
NLDS Game 3 — San Francisco at Cincinnati

Wednesday
ALDS Game 3 — Baltimore/Texas at NY
ALDS Game 4* — Detroit at Oakland
NLDS Game 3 — Atlanta/St. Louis at Washington
NLDS Game 4* — San Francisco at Cincinnati

Thursday
ALDS Game 4* — Baltimore/Texas at New York
ALDS Game 5* — Detroit at Oakland
NLDS Game 4* — Atlanta/St. Louis at Washington
NLDS Game 5* — San Francisco at Cincinnati

Friday
ALDS Game 5* — Baltimore/Texas at New York
NLDS Game 5* — Atlanta/St. Louis at Washington

* If necessary, all series are best of five

SI

Figured it was time for a new thread

SI

play in game at 5? woo hoo, another reason to get home... see who will loose to the NATS!!!!

( I have tix for games 4 and 5... so dont sweep :) )

play in game at 5? woo hoo, another reason to get home... see who will loose to the NATS!!!!

( I have tix for games 4 and 5... so dont sweep :) )

I have tickets for all of the postseason.. where are you sitting?

That would be fun.

Never been to a playoff game. It's definitely on my baseball bucket list along with All Star game. I finally got to go to Opening Day this year

SI

I have tickets for all of the postseason.. where are you sitting?

i got nosebleed seats for game 4 (403 I think) and ill be sitting in my regular season tickets for game 5 (106). being in a 10 person ticket share is great, until the playoffs :( I got one game for each series and on my own for the others.

Let's Go Bravos! Take out the Cards so you can beat up on the Expos/Nationals

That would be fun.

Never been to a playoff game. It's definitely on my baseball bucket list along with All Star game. I finally got to go to Opening Day this year

SI

I was at the Angels' home opener, but that was three games into the season. Does that count for "Opening Day"? Been to a playoff game, too (two, actually).

I would have liked to attend the All Star game in Anaheim last year, but it was crazy trying to get tickets.

My thought was that I didn't feel that it was Opening Day unless the team was 0-0. Other games could have already been played but not for the team you were going to see.

I was at the Astros Opening Day this year and that was after the Japan series, fake Opening Day, and even real Opening Day as they started the season on Friday when about half the teams started on Thursday (and the fluky game on Wednesday and the week before).

SI

i got nosebleed seats for game 4 (403 I think) and ill be sitting in my regular season tickets for game 5 (106). being in a 10 person ticket share is great, until the playoffs :( I got one game for each series and on my own for the others.

I'm in 135 if for some reason you want to try to meet up. I'm in a season ticket group as well, but the tickets "belong" to me and a buddy. We get opening day every year and any postseason tickets (obviously this is the first year for that). We also managed to get some extra seats in our section that were randomly alotted to the other members of the ticket group.

Braves Roster Today:

PITCHERS (9): Luis Avilan, Chad Durbin, Cory Gearrin, Tim Hudson, Craig Kimbrel, Kris Medlen, Mike Minor, Eric O'Flaherty, Jonny Venters

CATCHERS (3): J.C. Boscan, Brian McCann, David Ross

INFIELDERS (8): Jeff Baker, Freddie Freeman, Eric Hinske, Chipper Jones, Lyle Overbay, Tyler Pastornicky, Andrelton Simmons, Dan Uggla

OUTFIELDERS (5): Michael Bourn, Jose Constanza, Jason Heyward, Reed Johnson, Martin Prado

Chad Durbin's still in the league. How about that...

SI

Go Cards!

I'm in 135 if for some reason you want to try to meet up. I'm in a season ticket group as well, but the tickets "belong" to me and a buddy. We get opening day every year and any postseason tickets (obviously this is the first year for that). We also managed to get some extra seats in our section that were randomly alotted to the other members of the ticket group.

our coordinator gets opening day, but we did a lottery for post season tix

does your share have any spots available? MOAR!

also, he got tix today, never have i hoped so much to pay 150 for a single seat.....

David Ross!!!!!!!

Hell yeah David Ross!

Ross Geller!

Well, Chipper bit the Braves

Fuck

First and third with one out. Pitcher on deck.

Bunt??

Great call by the ump, terrible decision to bunt with the 1st and 3rd, one out and the pitcher due up. It would be a shame if the Braves go out here and Chipper is the goat.

Gonzalez said it was a safety squeeze. Should have pinch hit for Medlen. Ou have 6 relievers for a reason.

GO CARDS GO!

These play in games are stupid. Either expand the playoffs with full series' or stick with the same format.

I like the one-game playoff for the wild card. Adds a sense of urgency without watering down the field.

WOW, Holliday!

And weakens (slightly) whichever Wild Card actually wins this.

I like the one-game playoff for the wild card. Adds a sense of urgency without watering down the field.

I dont think a team should be able to make up being a worse regular season team by winning one game.

I swear, the Cards are the luckiest bastards

SI

i love the new format... just dont like the 2-3

I dont think a team should be able to make up being a worse regular season team by winning one game.

The wild card shouldn't be equal to winning a division title. And now it's not. Plus, one extra team gets hope and I think that's great for baseball in an era where other sports let a lot more teams in than that.

I dont think a team should be able to make up being a worse regular season team by winning one game.

But you could say that about the first wildcard. If the Braves were to win this game they'd play the Nationals who already finished ahead of them in the regular season. They'd play 5 games but it's still the same concept. I like this format, just go to a 3 game series and put all 3 games at the better team's park, then make the LDS 7 games.

For the second time in three years, the Braves are bumbling their way out of the playoffs.

You needed Kimbrel. Strikeouts are much better at preventing a run scoring from third than ground balls.

Same old Braves.

The wild card shouldn't be equal to winning a division title. And now it's not. Plus, one extra team gets hope and I think that's great for baseball in an era where other sports let a lot more teams in than that.

This pretty much nails my view point. Win your division and you don't have to worry about it.

Constanza pinch hitting over McCann ? Fuck Fredi.

worked....

Congrats to the Cards. They had the better hitting team. The Braves shot themselves in the foot, but the Cards had to take care of the mistakes, and they did.

Congrats to the Cards. They had the better hitting team. The Braves shot themselves in the foot, but the Cards had to take care of the mistakes, and they did.

...with the tying run at bat, 1 down in the 8th inning?

Wow...

Can anybody play defense in this one?

Infield fly????? WTF?????

that is not an infield fly. terrible call

Errr...wow on the call. Yikes

Dam right throw shit

Stay classy Atlanta

Those Atlanta fans are classless. Take the bad call with class.

What a terrible call.

throw it all night boys, the fix is in. not even NFL replacements made calls that bad.

Roger Goodell must be loving this.

Those Atlanta fans are classless. Take the bad call with class.

If I were a Braves fan I would probably call for the commissioner to overturn the game result. If that doesn't happen its clearly a conspiracy.

That ref should be fired. you cant give away a game.

Those Atlanta fans are classless. Take the bad call with class.

Would you see anything different in any other city? A shocking call in an elimination game, in the bottom of the 8th, when the home team load the bases while down by three?

What? This doesn't get a thread of its own?

Good title...

Fans are Idiots, Guess Where?

That was a total joke, and I can understand the response, that was a total fuck job.

What? This doesn't get a thread of its own?

Good title...

Fans are Idiots, Guess Where?

LF Ump fans?

What a shitty fucking game this turned out to be

Horrible game if it turns out this is Chipper's final game.

is it any less of a travesty, simply because the braves had no chance anyways?

is it any less of a travesty, simply because the braves had no chance anyways?

Do not feed....

Do not feed....

what? just because only the yankees get calls like that....

What a horrible, horrible call.

It was not that bad of a call. Kozma parked under it to where it was an easy catch.

Good things Atlanta fans don't care about baseball. If this was real fans, an umpire would have been dead.

Hey idiots. Stop throwing shit so your team can try to score.

It was not that bad of a call. Kozma parked under it to where it was an easy catch.

Then call it, dot wait until he moves out of the way.

Good thing American sports fans don't care about baseball. If these were any other rabid soccer fans, an umpire would have been dead.


fixed

It was not that bad of a call. Kozma parked under it to where it was an easy catch.

It was a ball hit to the outfield...not the infield. That isn't called with 4 umpires, it shouldn't be called with 6.

Classic case of adrenaline and overthrowing here.

It was a ball hit to the outfield...not the infield. That isn't called with 4 umpires, it shouldn't be called with 6.

There are plenty of balls hit to the outfield that are called infield fly.

Good lesson taught by Motte to the Braves fans that throwing shit on the field does not win. He even teased them by walking and going behind.

And then nothing but straight gas.

Horrible call in every possible way. It was NOT any easy catch as you just saw because he didn't fucking catch it..that's to whoever said it was easy. Its the playoffs. Nerves count. Just look at Hamilton's drop the other day. As routine as it gets.

No defending the call just like the packer Seahawks game.

There are plenty of balls hit to the outfield that are called infield fly.

Not like that. I have never seen such a deep ball called on the infield fly.

From MLB rules about Infield Fly:

The umpire’s judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately.

Horrible call in every possible way. It was NOT any easy catch as you just saw because he didn't fucking catch it..that's to whoever said it was easy. Its the playoffs. Nerves count. Just look at Hamilton's drop the other day. As routine as it gets.

Can you point to the rule that tells umps to consider nerves when evaluating the infield fly rule?

The reds should keep Billy Hamilton at short, then ever home run would have to be an infield fly.

Meh...questionable call, but I can see where he was coming from. It certainly looked like an easy catch up until he abandoned it.

Either way, sucks to be Braves fan for several reasons tonight...not the least of which is nearly approaching the classlessness of Philadelphia fans.

What an awful awful call. That ball was not to the shallow infield, it was well into the outfielder and he was moving over to get it.

If I were a Braves fan I would probably call for the commissioner to overturn the game result. If that doesn't happen its clearly a conspiracy.

Wait, are you suggesting the Braves should be given the win due to one horrible call despite being down 3 at that point. I'm a braves fan and I don't believe that

What an awful awful call. That ball was not to the shallow infield, it was well into the outfielder and he was moving over to get it.

The Cards SS broke away before the call was even made as well. At least I think he did.

Wait, are you suggesting the Braves should be given the win due to one horrible call despite being down 3 at that point. I'm a braves fan and I don't believe that

Yeah...I mean, it wasn't the greatest call ever, but the Braves have been playing like shit all night. Absolute best case scenario there, in my opinion, was 2 runs.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A4e3CXHCIAAEQok.png:large

Dude waited until the ball hit the ground to start waving his arm for an infield fly. Should have been calling it when it was in the air instead of bailing out the fielder.

Well, good for chipper

My opinion is that if they didn't overturn the final out of a perfect game, it'll require an insane number of bad calls that were obviously neglegent or intentional to cause a change in any game going forward

That was an equally horrible call.

Really, I have to hope for Uggla

Wait, are you suggesting the Braves should be given the win due to one horrible call despite being down 3 at that point. I'm a braves fan and I don't believe that

I am not sure that he was suggesting that the Braves should be awarded the win, rather that the game should be replayed from the point of the bad call.

I am not sure that he was suggesting that the Braves should be awarded the win, rather that the game should be replayed from the point of the bad call.

Ah that makes more sense

The Braves lost it, but fuck did the umps help make sure.

I do love the new playoff format that it puts more emphasis on winning the division, and forces the WC to burn players on an all or nothing game before they play the LDS games.

Damn, now I'm down to just the Reds.

Well, baseball fans have six months of bitching from Braves fans to look forward to.

ugh

Either way, sucks to be Braves fan for several reasons tonight...not the least of which is nearly approaching the classlessness of Philadelphia fans.

Really? This was necessary? You're more troll like than I'll ever be.

I don't know too much about appeals / protests (see my previous posts) but can you appeal a judgement call like this?

Radio just said when the umps disappeared after the incident it was to deal with the appeal, which in the playoffs is handled right there and then (obviously denied).

Yeah the anger isn't about the umps costing the Braves the win. It's about a rally being hurt by a horrible call that isn't even close to being correct (even if you accept the umpire's judgment on the easiness of the call, it wasn't made immediately)

Can you point to the rule that tells umps to consider nerves when evaluating the infield fly rule?

YOu said it was an easy catch, it wasn't, let them play ball and don't affect the game with an awful call.

He bailed the SS out since he called it a split second AFTER the SS pulled off.

Yeah the anger isn't about the umps costing the Braves the win. It's about a rally being hurt by a horrible call that isn't even close to being correct (even if you accept the umpire's judgment on the easiness of the call, it wasn't made immediately)

Well the fact of the matter is that one out, bases loaded is a different position strategically than 2 on and 2 out. The pitcher and hitter each approach the at bat very differently than they would have otherwise.

Buck needs to have that bullpen ready. Saunders won't get through this lineup twice.

Oh RKG, chill out. I meant all of them except for you, of course.

Oh RKG, chill out. I meant all of them except for you, of course.

Thanks jackass ;)

Thanks jackass ;)

Lol. You know what's funny? I actually thought about you, but for some reason I had convinced myself you were a Pirates fan.

You know you hold a special place in my heart.

;) ;)

Sun Tzu is cool. He wants you to know.

Wait, are you suggesting the Braves should be given the win due to one horrible call despite being down 3 at that point. I'm a braves fan and I don't believe that

Oh, my comment was just a little dig at the overreaction of a certain Packers fan in NFL threads. Not a serious comment at all.

Anyway, go Orioles!

Anyone that hasn't seen the call from the Braves game, here it is:

2012 NL Wild Card | NL WC: Umps call infield fly rule on Simmons' popup - Video | MLB.com: Multimedia (http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=25336303&topic_id=37973554)

Anyway, go Orioles!

Yeah! Go O's!

No chance the appeal is granted, but the two people who hear the appeal, one is a former Cardinal and the other's dad is a former Cardinal.

I guess I should be satisfied as a Braves fan. Nearly everything went wrong for them, yet they still could/should have been able to win it in the 7th, 8th and 9th.

Really? This was necessary? You're more troll like than I'll ever be.

Well you knew it would be coming from somebody.

And no, not really a fan of the extra WC. Washes out a six game advantage in one league, and serves as the same old tiebreaker in the other. As Blackistone said today on the radio - it's basically game 163. Or the NCAA "play-in" game. It's not a playoff.

Either way, sucks to be Braves fan for several reasons tonight...not the least of which is nearly approaching the classlessness of Philadelphia fans.

More brilliance from this worthless POS.

Well, at least nobody here takes what's said in a baseball thread too personally.

;) :D :) :cool:

Well you knew it would be coming from somebody.

And no, not really a fan of the extra WC. Washes out a six game advantage in one league, and serves as the same old tiebreaker in the other. As Blackistone said today on the radio - it's basically game 163. Or the NCAA "play-in" game. It's not a playoff.

What's worse is giving the wc winner the first two games of the next series at home. They stopped that several years ago because it gave them too much of an advantage, now they bring it back. Wc should have it the toughest, they didn't win their division.

YOu said it was an easy catch, it wasn't, let them play ball and don't affect the game with an awful call.

He bailed the SS out since he called it a split second AFTER the SS pulled off.

Yea, he would have time to think about it. What if he dropped the ball, picked it up, and turned an easy double play?

Sun Tzu is cool. He wants you to know.

Wait, wait, weren't you telling us in the other thread how the Phillies were going to make the playoffs despite being 13 out? :D

13 out? No, no, that's not possible.

http://noontimesports.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/oakland_athletics.jpg

Press conference on mlb.com

Protest denied. Umpire snide that he made the right call...absolutely as he says.

Yea, he would have time to think about it. What if he dropped the ball, picked it up, and turned an easy double play?

Yeah that wasn't possible here. The runners did not tag up because the umpire made his call so late. In fact, by calling it that way, if the catch was made a double play was easier. The runner advancing to third would've been easily tagged up at 2nd base.

That's why the "immediately" wording is in the rule. The runners have to know whether they need to tag up or not. You can keep pretending that "immediately" is not in the rule, but you look really silly for doing so.

What's worse is giving the wc winner the first two games of the next series at home. They stopped that several years ago because it gave them too much of an advantage, now they bring it back. Wc should have it the toughest, they didn't win their division.

I was thinking about this. It's possible in the event of a sweep that the division winner plays only a single game at home.

(Kind of rooting for that to happen. Well, for the Yankees I'm certainly rooting for that to happen. :D )

Yeah that wasn't possible here. The runners did not tag up because the umpire made his call so late. In fact, by calling it that way, if the catch was made a double play was easier. The runner advancing to third would've been easily tagged up at 2nd base.

That's why the "immediately" wording is in the rule. The runners have to know whether they need to tag up or not. You can keep pretending that "immediately" is not in the rule, but you look really silly for doing so.

The call was made immediately. Thats why the runners ran. You advance at your own risk. You dont have to tag up.
The right call was made. It was tough. But as was stated earlier, what if he had dropped it and a double play was turned? ATL fans would have been hollering for the infield fly rule to be called.

What's worse is giving the wc winner the first two games of the next series at home. They stopped that several years ago because it gave them too much of an advantage, now they bring it back. Wc should have it the toughest, they didn't win their division.

Yeah i dont get this. What is the series? 2-3-2? So the WC gets 4 home games and the team with the best record gets 3? Is that correct?

One more thing. A wise person once told me you should never leave the result of a game in the hands of an umpire. It never works out.

The call was made immediately. Thats why the runners ran. You advance at your own risk. You dont have to tag up.
The right call was made. It was tough. But as was stated earlier, what if he had dropped it and a double play was turned? ATL fans would have been hollering for the infield fly rule to be called.

1) You need to rewatch the play because it was clearly not immediately. It was made as the fielder backed off.

2) You do have to tag up on an infield fly.

The ball is alive and runners may advance at the risk of the ball being caught, or retouch and advance after the ball is touched, the same as on any fly ball. If the hit becomes a foul ball, it is treated the same as any foul.

The call was made immediately. Thats why the runners ran. You advance at your own risk. You dont have to tag up.
The right call was made. It was tough. But as was stated earlier, what if he had dropped it and a double play was turned? ATL fans would have been hollering for the infield fly rule to be called.

How can you say it was called immediately? It was called a second before it hit the ground.

Yeah...they showed the call in slo-mo later on. The ump raised his hand around one second (possibly less than) before the ball hit the ground. It was definitely a late call, but I don't know that there's nearly enough evidence to say it was an out-and-out blown call.

I stand corrected. The runners do have to tag up. My bad. Thanks for the clarification.
The rul also states the infielder must be comfortably under the ball. The SS would have been comfortably under the ball had he not bailed out on it.

This was a tough one. A subjective call. Again, the Braves should bot have made 3 costly errors to put them in the situation where they allowed a controversial call to affect them.

This is starting to remind me of Bartman. It wasn't Gonzalez's error and the shitty bullpen it was all a fan's fault. Just like it wasn't the Braves and their 3 errors that led to most of the Cardinal runs. It was an infield fly call that cost them the game. Let's litter the field with bottles like European hooligans.

This late game is playing out completely different than the early game. Smooth fielding, well turned double plays, solid pitching.

Both teams look sharp.

Not sure the point of the comments about what the Braves should've done. No shit they should've played much better. I don't think anyone here has said the Braves were robbed, just that it was an incredibly shitty call that sucked.

I dont think it sucked. Or it was a terrible call. I think it was the right call and a great one to boot.

Not sure the point of the comments about what the Braves should've done. No shit they should've played much better. I don't think anyone here has said the Braves were robbed, just that it was an incredibly shitty call that sucked.

It's more of a commentary on the fans behavior and that somehow this result will probably go down as the "infield fly" game when in fact their complete lack of fielding fundamentals are what cost them the game. The classless behavior of the fans probably did lead to an absoletly mind boggling safe call on Chipper's last at bat.

(Wasn't really directed at the Braves fans on here)

Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy!

Per ESPN, that was the longest infield fly in baseball over the last three years by 50 feet. No mention from before that.

The Rangers have been replaced with the Pedro Feliz all-stars. Lets see if anyone notices!

Yea, he would have time to think about it. What if he dropped the ball, picked it up, and turned an easy double play?

You are kidding me. Even if you have three Fat Alberts running the bases you're still not going to get a double play in that situation with how far in the outfield he was... lmao

IF, and it's a huge IF he got under the ball he would have had all of 1/10th of second to make that decision. There is ZERO chance for a double play to happen there. Again you're way off. That ball fell a half a second after he pulled back from catching. A half second. He still had a few feet to move.

Horrible call and it should have been a group discussion between the third base ump who was clearly looking at the LF ump when he followed him in making the call. He should have said, "dude what the fuck was that.. you called it almost as the ball landed.. runner is safe at first.." This is exactly what should have happened in the Packer game. Both refs should have waived there arms in the air, stepped aside for five seconds and then made the call interception or TD call.

Infield fly my ass.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/spleen1015/infield-fly.png

Nate McClutch

Great McClouth

Great Nate McClutch

Nice pick-up for the Os!

Nate McClutch

Great McClouth

Great Nate McClutch

Nice pick-up for the Os!

I remember thinking "HELLO! Not even the Pirates wanted him!!"

I just reviewed the play and there was no chance to get a double play. Maybe a chance to get the guy at 3rd...but that's it.

Seriously, has Baltimore sacrificed someone to Jobu? There has to be a supernatural explanation for this, right?

I dont think it sucked. Or it was a terrible call. I think it was the right call and a great one to boot.

Are you standing by your argument that the call was made immediately? Because it clearly wasn't and an infield fly call has to be made immediately.

It's more of a commentary on the fans behavior and that somehow this result will probably go down as the "infield fly" game when in fact their complete lack of fielding fundamentals are what cost them the game. The classless behavior of the fans probably did lead to an absoletly mind boggling safe call on Chipper's last at bat.

(Wasn't really directed at the Braves fans on here)

Was there ever a good replay shown at that Chipper play? I swear it looked like he reached his foot back to the base before Jones touched the bag. For some reason the only replays were from the next county.

Also, an interesting thing about the infield fly rule discussion was the announcers saying the umpire should have called it earlier so the runners could go back and tag up. If they went back to tag up I doubt they advance.

That also got me thinking, what is the rule for tagging up on an infield fly rule call?

If the Rangers lose will they fire Ron Washington? He clearly isn't very good. In no situation is Derek Holland better than Yu. And his team blew a 13 game lead to the As. Nolan should fire him and get someone there with a clue.

"jas lov..."

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/759165/wash.gif

"...say that to my face!"

Ron Washington is fascinating. Players clearly love playing for him, but he was the tactical skill of a 3 year old on acid. I think back to 2010, when he lovingly let Vlad play RF and wouldn't let Ogando pitch.

Having the extra umpire standing in left field when normally there isn't an ump there might be the reason he called it. He's calling 50+ games a year from the the 3rd base spot, had he been running up the foul line to make the call, I guarantee he doesn't call infield fly on the run like that. Him standing there already 50 feet up the line and being able to just watch it all without running his 'natural instinct' when he's normally standing at 3rd and watching a pop up and being 20 feet away from him in a normal game at 3rd base would have been called an infield fly...

Infield fly my ass.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i225/spleen1015/infield-fly.png

I hadn't seen it until now...holy shit. THAT far out??

He managed them to 2 straight WS. Yeah, I think firing him is the right move.

I turned on the Braves game while all of the BS was happening. How did the runners get the 2nd and 3rd any way? If the IF fly rule was called, they have to tag up right? Holiday got the ball to the SS almost immediately. They had no time to tag up. So, how did they get to 3B and 2B?

I hadn't seen it until now...holy shit. THAT far out??

Yeah, I stopped the video right when the ball hit the ground. Pretty insane.

He managed them to 2 straight WS. Yeah, I think firing him is the right move.

I turned on the Braves game while all of the BS was happening. How did the runners get the 2nd and 3rd any way? If the IF fly rule was called, they have to tag up right? Holiday got the ball to the SS almost immediately. They had no time to tag up. So, how did they get to 3B and 2B?

If nobody catches it you can run without tagging. If they caught it they most certainly would have gone back to their bases.

I hadn't seen it until now...holy shit. THAT far out??

And the ump called the infield fly less than a half second earlier...

Are you standing by your argument that the call was made immediately? Because it clearly wasn't and an infield fly call has to be made immediately.

No. I saw the play again. It was a late call by the ump. It looks like he was waiting to see if Kozma could get to it. Which he would have. Had he not thought Holliday called him off or heard footsteps.
This play is in the definition of the infield fly rule.

Are you standing by your argument that the call was made immediately? Because it clearly wasn't and an infield fly call has to be made immediately.

Define clearly wasn't?

The Braves actually were helped by the call not being made immediately (in terms of it being called an infield fly). If it's made immediately the runners are back at the base and most likely don't advance.

It's all a lot of bad timing to be honest. At the same time the umpire decided to call the infield fly rule it happens to be the same time that the shortstop flinched. Did the umpire yell it before he raised his arm? If so, did the shortstop hear someone yelling from that direction and think it was the left fielder. He clearly glances in that direction as he bailed out (the outfielder was in the other direction) so something spooked him from that way.

If that was the case, the Braves really have nothing here as without the yell if would have been a catch and an out with runners still at 1st and 2nd.

If nobody catches it you can run without tagging. If they caught it they most certainly would have gone back to their bases.

But don't they have to tag up because the IF fly was called?

No. I saw the play again. It was a late call by the ump. It looks like he was waiting to see if Kozma could get to it. Which he would have. Had he not thought Holliday called him off or heard footsteps.
This play is in the definition of the infield fly rule.

If it was 50 feet closer to the infield, sure.

Wash puts in an angry, vengeful Uehara--slick move.

Are you standing by your argument that the call was made immediately? Because it clearly wasn't and an infield fly call has to be made immediately.

The infield fly rule can be made as late as the catch. it does not have to be made immediately. Preferably it should be made on its descent or at its highest point. But this does not have to happen.

If it was 50 feet closer to the infield, sure.

Infield fly rule is defined as an infielder is able to camp under a fly ball. It has nothing to do with being on the infield.

The infield fly rule can be made as late as the catch. it does not have to be made immediately. Preferably it should be made on its descent or at its highest point. But this does not have to happen.

You are wrong. The rules state "When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare Infield Fly for the benefit of the runners."

When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare “Infield Fly” for the benefit of the runners. If the ball is near the baselines, the umpire shall declare “Infield Fly, if Fair.”
The ball is alive and runners may advance at the risk of the ball being caught, or retouch and advance after the ball is touched, the same as on any fly ball. If the hit becomes a foul ball, it is treated the same as any foul.

I read the bold part to say that the umpire calls it an infield fly immediately once he determines it is an infield fly. So, if that umpire didn't think it was until he thought the SS was going to catch it, then it might be the right call.

You are wrong. The rules state "When it seems apparent that a batted ball will be an Infield Fly, the umpire shall immediately declare Infield Fly for the benefit of the runners."

Exactly. When it seems apparent..........

It wasnt apparent until he was about to the ball.

No. I saw the play again. It was a late call by the ump. It looks like he was waiting to see if Kozma could get to it. Which he would have. Had he not thought Holliday called him off or heard footsteps.
This play is in the definition of the infield fly rule.

The point of the infield fly rule is you don't have to wait and see if it can be caught, the point is you assume it is going to be caught, so that the team in the field doesn't try to pull any tricks. That's why it's supposed to be called immediately.

Rule 2.00 (Infield Fly) Comment: On the infield fly rule the umpire is to rule whether the ball could ordinarily have been handled by an infielder—not by some arbitrary limitation such as the grass, or the base lines. The umpire must rule also that a ball is an infield fly, even if handled by an outfielder, if, in the umpire’s judgment, the ball could have been as easily handled by an infielder. The infield fly is in no sense to be considered an appeal play. The umpire’s judgment must govern, and the decision should be made immediately.

Arbitrary and subjective definitions. Just like offsides in Soccer, eh?

The infield fly rule can be made as late as the catch. it does not have to be made immediately. Preferably it should be made on its descent or at its highest point. But this does not have to happen.

At first I was going to disagree with this, but after reading the rule book, I think you are right. The rulebook says that as soon the umpire makes the determination, he has to make the call immediately--but it allows the umpire to make the determination at any point during the play. The immediately applies to the umpire's decision, not to the flight of the ball.

Probably the rule should be rewritten to take into account a situation like the one that happened tonight.

Also, it looked to me like Chipper was dogging it on his final at bat, jogging slowly down the line until the bad throw.

Come on O's. Don't blow this thing.

Go O's.

Rangers are about to be blown up. Who takes on Hamilton?

YESSSSSSSSSS!!

PS, Rooting for the O's here. That's a great franchise that deserves better than the reign of Angelos and Thrift.

He wasn't even close to camping under the ball either. He was still backing up. Still the wrong call.

Pinch-runner for Thome?

He was almost under it and would have been camping. Thats why the ump made the call.
He bailed for some reason. Probably heard footsteps. But he would have been camped.

He was almost under it and would have been camping. Thats why the ump made the call.
He bailed for some reason. Probably heard footsteps. But he would have been camped.

So you're saying he WASN'T camped after all. He never camped. EVER. ALMOST doesn't count in this situation. Not even for a split second did he camp. He was waiving the outfielder off and then never even made it to where the ball ended up. Never camped. Never. Never. Never.

I'm a Cubs fan, maybe I'm just pissed that the Cardinals made it into the best of 5.

Infield fly rule is defined as an infielder is able to camp under a fly ball. It has nothing to do with being on the infield.

I'd agree with you if not for my opinion that he wasn't camped under the ball. His body language suggested that he was settling in for an easy catch, but the ball hit the turf four or five feet away from where he was when he finally peeled off. His momentum was taking him to his right towards the left field corner, but the ball comes down the other direction (to his left). IMO, by the end he wasn't even moving in the right direction to make a play on the ball.

Pinch-runner for Thome?

I don't know why they waited until after the double to do it....

Gah, that was a fat picth, Manny.

Manny doesn't need fat pitches!

GJ Machado.

great piece of hitting

I would like to take this opportunity to thank Wash for pulling Uehara after striking out the side, and putting in Nathan instead.

Some drama in the 9th.

Just as I type that he pops up.

Bring on the Yankees.

Who got hurt in a celebration?

Not what I expected...all year. Continuing to play with house money...this has been pretty fun.

Amazing collapse. 10 days ago the Rangers were 5 up and now they do not even make the real playoffs.

Losing the World Series in game 6, then game 7, now this. What a crap set of three years to be a Rangers fan.

Losing the World Series in game 6, then game 7, now this. What a crap set of three years to be a Rangers fan.

At least you've had a shot.

- Signed a Toronto Blue Jays fan.

At least you've had a shot.

- Signed a Toronto Blue Jays fan.

Ugh

-KC

SI

I hadn't seen it until now...holy shit. THAT far out??

Was totally wrapped up in HS football, so I knew nothing until reading the recaps a few minutes ago. And I'm seeing any pic for the first time here.

O.M.G.

http://i.imgur.com/O4yEq.jpg

I have watched the infield fly play frame by frame several times now. I am sure by this point, everyone has their mind made up (especially Braves and Cardinals fans), but here is what I saw in the video:

1. The time from ball hit to ball lands was about 6 seconds
2. The umpire calls infield fly about 1/2 second before the ball lands
3. I am pretty confident that the shortstop would have caught, or at least had a play on the ball if he had continued his progress
4. The umpire does not call infield fly (with his hand motion) until the shortstop breaks off the ball.


Personally I don't think it should have been an infield fly, due to the depth of the ball and the length of time it took to call it. I believe that the spirit of the rule is to stop defensive players from intentionally dropping the ball to pull off a double play. From that depth, I do not think such a play was possible. I believe that the umpire erred due to the shortstop selling the "easy catch" and possibly due to the umpire getting lost (starting in LF instead of 3B).

This play will go down like Buckner and Bartman. While it hurt the Braves, it was not the only reason they lost this game.

Seems like it's way too far out for an infield fly, but whatever.

So is this where I get to ask when the real umps in baseball are coming back and we can get rid of the replacement umps from the Braves game?

I really don't understand why the SS broke away. It looked a lot like he was called off by someone, but it didn't look like it was the leftfielder.

That's basically what happened here, I suspect, CraigSca. The SS is tracking backwards for so long that I'll bet he was anticipating the OF to call him off, particularly since the level of difficulty was no long routine. It looks like he heard something, obviously not the outfielder, but something, and he tried to move out of the way.

I think the umpire was reading into the rule too much and lost track of just how impossible the double-play was in that scenario and just botched it in the few seconds that he had to make a determination.

I can see two scenarios why Kozma pulled out of the play,

First, it appears to me on the video that as soon as Kozma raises his hand to let Holliday know that he's got it, the infield fly is called. Makes me wonder if the ump yelled "out" or "infield fly" at that time, confusing Kozma.

The other scenario is earlier in the game, Kozma retreated to a similar depth in centerfield and made the putout. Immediately after, Jon Jay says something to Kozma. Who knows, but he may have been saying "hey kid, that's the outfielders ball". Possibly on the infield fly what Jay said to him made him bail.

Wait, wait, weren't you telling us in the other thread how the Phillies were going to make the playoffs despite being 13 out? :D

You lack reading comprehension. I said they would be be competitive, get to .500 and make a run. They did just that. I NEVER said they were going to the playoffs.

Congrats to the O's! It's going to be tough if the Orioles and Giants meet in the World Series. My childhood team against my adulthood team.

I'm happy the Cardinals made it, but I agree with those who said that was a horrible call when they called infield fly on that gaffe by Kozma. Cardinals got lucky on that one.

I don't think we will make it past the Nationals though.

So you're saying he WASN'T camped after all. He never camped. EVER. ALMOST doesn't count in this situation. Not even for a split second did he camp. He was waiving the outfielder off and then never even made it to where the ball ended up. Never camped. Never. Never. Never.

I'm a Cubs fan, maybe I'm just pissed that the Cardinals made it into the best of 5.

This probably plays a part. :)

If you read the rule. An outfielder can make a play on a fly ball that is called an infield fly. I think the name adds to the confusion. It doesnt matter in the depth. It matters of an infielder can make a play. It is not restricted to the dirt or the baseline.
In this case, Kozma was going to make an easy play. If he had gotten there and not pulled off and purposely dropped it, the Cards would have had a double play.

Rooting for the O's the rest of the way. Great city, nice fan base that deserves better than Angelos. My "RKG wants YOU to win" list goes like this:

1. Orioles
2. A's
3. Tigers
4. Reds
5. Cardinals
6. Yankees
7. Giants
8. Nats

My list:

1. Nats
2. Giants
3. Yankees
4. Cardinals
5. Reds
6. Tigers
7. Athletics
8. Orioles

So many teams I like are in the playoffs plus one that I don't (Yankees) now that two other teams I don't like are gone. That leaves with many potential historical matchups (from previous WS). I had my son give them all to me and he got all of the them except Cardinals-Orioles from 1944.

I would love to see the Reds in the WS against Orioles or A's. I told my son stories about the 70 and 72 WS when I was a Reds fan. I wouldn't mind to see the Cardinals, lots of old matchups there or the Giants again (Bay Area).

I don't think I could handle an Orioles v Giants WS, so I'm going to have to pull for another Bay Bridge series.

Go A's, Go Giants.

Good luck to the Reds fans out there. Should be fun. The 2-3 format makes things interesting, and I think the onus is on the Giants to win both games at home before going to Cincinnati.

So many teams I like are in the playoffs plus one that I don't (Yankees) now that two other teams I don't like are gone. That leaves with many potential historical matchups (from previous WS). I had my son give them all to me and he got all of the them except Cardinals-Orioles from 1944.

I would love to see the Reds in the WS against Orioles or A's. I told my son stories about the 70 and 72 WS when I was a Reds fan. I wouldn't mind to see the Cardinals, lots of old matchups there or the Giants again (Bay Area).

Agreed with some of the other sentiments out there. So many teams I would be ok with winning and only 2 I don't (Yankees, Cards). So, go to Vegas and get those Yankees-Cards odds now before they go up

I think the order would be:
Orioles - I would love for this long suffering fan base to get a win with this oddly improbably team
Nats - should be pretty good for a while but worried this will become a primo bandwagon location; still shouldn't punish the long suffering for what other morons will do
Reds - good, historical team with good fans
As - perennial underdogs - what's not to like
.
Giants/Tigers/(Braves) - Have had some success lately; nothing offensive but I'm all for sharing the wealth
.
(Rangers) - I wouldn't mind them getting one World Series as it would represent how good their team has been; becoming like the Phillies: not quite Yankees/Boston "south" but getting there; odds are the next one will be Dodgers
Cardinals - Cards suck
Yankees - Yankees suck worst

SI

My list:

1) Cardinals
2) Tigers
3) Orioles
4) Nats
5) A's
6) Giants
7) Yankees




100000000000000) Reds

:p

My list:

1) Tigers

1. A's
2. Nats
3. Reds
4. O's
5. Tigers
6. Cards
7. Yankees

That's right I didn't include the Giants.

I would love to see the Reds in the WS against Orioles or A's. I told my son stories about the 70 and 72 WS when I was a Reds fan. I wouldn't mind to see the Cardinals, lots of old matchups there or the Giants again (Bay Area).

This is probably not a bad basis for a long-time fan who has no rooting interest left to work from.

That '70 WS is the earliest one I have any recollection of (kinda fuzzy but I definitely remember bits) so that'd be kinda interesting. Not really an NL team I can pull for with any gusto so going with the O's is probably my likely option.

Definitely rooting for the Nats to bow out quickly so they are forever questioned on the Strasburg decision.

Yankees
A's
Giants
Nuclear Holocaust
Other teams
800000000000000th The 88 win STL Cardinals(which i guess is better than an 83 win cards team winning)

Definitely rooting for the Nats to bow out quickly so they are forever questioned on the Strasburg decision.

Oh yeah, most definitely.

Definitely rooting for the Nats to bow out quickly so they are forever questioned on the Strasburg decision.

I'll be rooting for the Nats - especially against StL - but yeah, I would smirk at that too.

O's
A's
Nats
Reds
---
Tigers
Giants
---
Cards
Yankees

My list:

1) Cardinals
2) Tigers
3) Orioles
4) Nats
5) A's
6) Giants
7) Yankees




100000000000000) Reds

:p

Close.. even though I despise the Reds, I really cannot stand the Yankees. If the Yankees and Reds play, I'm buying a Votto jersey. :)

1) Cardinals
2) Orioles
3) A's
4) Tigers
5) Nats
6) Giants
7) Reds




100000000000000) Yankees

From the Wisconsin company who brought you a similar shirt after the Packers MNF loss ...

T-shirt taps Braves fans’ ‘Worst Call Ever’ outrage | www.ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/sports/baseball/t-shirt-taps-braves-fans-outrage/nSWj7/)

http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/lt/lt_cache/thumbnail/188/img/photos/2012/10/06/17/c2/WorstCallEver_InfieldFly_3.jpg

Wow. Thats sad that you have to grab on to that t-shirt. At least it deflects from the horrible play by the home team.

Dude, we get it, you're a troll. Go back to your bridge.

Wow. Thats sad that you have to grab on to that t-shirt. At least it deflects from the horrible play by the home team.

Presumably you realize that I'm just sharing the link. I never had the slightest inkling the Braves were gonna win yesterday, I'm only surprised they kept it as close as they did all things considered.

Yes, I understand you were posting a linek. I hope you understand I was speaking in general terms of the sad Braves fans that think a controversial infield fly rule call cost them a game where they had three horrible errors that led to most of the runs scored by the Cardinals.

Have you not read the thread? Every braves fan in here said they lost the game. It doesn't mean they can't be pissed about a horrible call.

Well, the worst call ever was this, so quit being a baby:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/246/213/OrtasSafe_display_image.jpg?1275576250

Wow. Thats sad that you have to grab on to that t-shirt. At least it deflects from the horrible play by the home team.


Is there any reason why you feel it necessary to continue trash talking Braves fans? Can't you just be happy your team is continuing on in the postseason and go away?

I never figured the Braves were long for this postseason, they just weren't a good enough team. Right now many things about last night's game annoy me:

1) The horrible play of the Braves is likely number 1
2) A ridiculously stupid call annoyed me to no end, but Braves fans are no strangers to miserable calls in the postseason
3) This stupid Wildcard format. First of all, I am not a fan of the wildcard in the first place. Adding a second wildcard annoys me that much more.. but then I really get annoyed by this one game and done format for the Wildcard playoffs. I fully realize there has been precedence before to single game playoffs for various reasons in the past, but it still is pretty anti-baseball in my mind.

Reds
Orioles
Nats
Giants
A's
Tigers
Cancer
AIDS
Cardinals
Yankees

Reds
Orioles
Athletics
Nationals
Giants
Tigers
Asteroid
Yankees
Cardinals

It is interesting how many of us view the Yankees as an evil, but an evil which can be usurped. Ie, if the Yankees were playing the Dodgers, I'd go out and buy a goddamn Derek Jeter jersey and become a bleacher creature. Hell if Al Queda was playing the Dodgers, I'd be a jihadi.

It is interesting how many of us view the Yankees as an evil, but an evil which can be usurped. Ie, if the Yankees were playing the Dodgers, I'd go out and buy a goddamn Derek Jeter jersey and become a bleacher creature. Hell if Al Queda was playing the Dodgers, I'd be a jihadi.

Pretty much. In a Yankees-Cardinals series I am pulling hard for the Yankees.

Or asteroid.

It is interesting how many of us view the Yankees as an evil, but an evil which can be usurped. Ie, if the Yankees were playing the Dodgers, I'd go out and buy a goddamn Derek Jeter jersey and become a bleacher creature. Hell if Al Queda was playing the Dodgers, I'd be a jihadi.

Not for me. Nats are too young to hate. Mets I actually liked in the 80s (Phillies were irrelevant when they were good). Braves I dislike, but respect the organization. Not keen on the Marlins, but I'd rather them than the Yankees.

Well, the worst call ever was this, so quit being a baby:

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/246/213/OrtasSafe_display_image.jpg?1275576250

Wow. Thats sad that you have to grab on to that {play}. At least it deflects from the horrible play by the {visiting} team.

SI

Well.... Shit.

Not for me. Nats are too young to hate. Mets I actually liked in the 80s (Phillies were irrelevant when they were good). Braves I dislike, but respect the organization. Not keen on the Marlins, but I'd rather them than the Yankees.

I think this gets at another thing. While I love the thought of having a team again in Washington DC (I remember the old Senators), they are still a "new" team. While it was cool, having teams like the Marlins or Diamondbacks win just doesn't seem right. And don't get me started on the Blue Jays. However, hypocritically, I don't have any problems with the Royals. Perversely, I can't root for the "new" Rangers nor the Brewers. Kinda of weird and stupid.

I'd look down on this point of view...except that I more or less share it as it relates to Arizona/Miami/Colorado/Tampa. I don't remember anything [baseball related] prior to the late 70s, so the Blue Jays (and Mariners) are fine by me.

I'd look down on this point of view...except that I more or less share it as it relates to Arizona/Miami/Colorado/Tampa. I don't remember anything [baseball related] prior to the late 70s, so the Blue Jays (and Mariners) are fine by me.

Yeah, and my timeframe is about 8-9 years earlier (right after the big 1969 expansion). This also works in a different way in that I came in after Mantle retired and the only thing I knew about him was reading Ball Four in 1974 and Byrlecream; therefore, in my hobby I still don't get the intense popularity of Mantle.

This is an awfully inconsistent strike zone so far.

This is an awfully inconsistent strike zone so far.

More like ridiculous...

TY Mr. Parker

5 innings in and the strike zone is only getting worse. That last called strike low and away would have hit a batter standing in the other batters box.

Very quiet in here...kind of like the Oakland Colosseum every time the A's play a home game.

*rimshot*

Not for me. Nats are too young to hate. Mets I actually liked in the 80s (Phillies were irrelevant when they were good). Braves I dislike, but respect the organization. Not keen on the Marlins, but I'd rather them than the Yankees.

Interesting - they are "root for anyone" team for you, huh? You're a Phillies fan primarily, correct?

Okay. Time for some Matt Cain!!!!

Let's Go Giants!

Wow. Seats to be had on Stubhub for tomorrow's Tigers game for $25. If I were there, I'd totally do that

SI

Time for the Reds to get it on! Let's go Reds!!

Time for the Reds to get it on! Let's go Reds!!

Except Giants. :D Good luck folks, should be a good one.


Also, not a good sign that Johnny Cueto seems to be injured.

Wow. That's series changing.

Except Giants. :D Good luck folks, should be a good one.


Also, not a good sign that Johnny Cueto seems to be injured.

Just another one of those enigmas this year: players going down injured against the Giants

I just lost all respect I had for Giants fans. Cheering the fact that Cueto is hurt. Jackasses.

No hit two years ago in game one and now this.

So Reds fans, does Latos or Bailey come in here? Let LeCure pitch an inning, then bring one of the starters in, give him 20 min?

If imagine it has to be Bailey, right? Keep Latos for game 3.