So Zorn is gone, the entire Bills staff is gone and it sounds like Mangini is out.

Plus we have an uncapped year that is going to not be as big a deal as a lot of people make it out to be.

Should be a fun thread.

It's not the off season yet.

It is if you're a Detroit Lions fan.

It is if you're a Detroit Lions fan.

Our offseason started the moment Stafford went down.

So who are the Rams taking?

The Steelers offseason started the second that Jamarcus Russell appeared in the 2nd half vs the Ravens. The Raiders offseason started much earlier, basically the first snap that Jabustus took this year.

No word from the Bears but it appears Lovie Smith is safe. Disappointing but expected from a franchise that plays it cheap. Hopefully some fans wise up and start cancelling their season tickets. He'll be forced to fire some assistants (again) and we'll go through the same song and dance. Most likely be his 4th offensive coordinator and 4th defensive coordinator since he took over in 2004.

No word from the Bears but it appears Lovie Smith is safe. Disappointing but expected from a franchise that plays it cheap. Hopefully some fans wise up and start cancelling their season tickets.

I've been hearing alot on sports radio lately that they expect Turner to be the sacrificial lamb.

I've been hearing alot on sports radio lately that they expect Turner to be the sacrificial lamb.
Yeah, the problem is that it's going to be impossible to find a quality OC willing to take over the team for one season before Lovie is fired. That also means that after next season, Cutler will start with his 3rd OC in 3 years with the Bears.

Lovie is scared of coaches that are a threat to him so it's going to be a no-name coach with no potential to take over the HC job. That or Mike Martz.

So who are the Rams taking?

Not sure...


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0608/ncf_g_suhts_576.jpg

That or Mike Martz.

That would be...interesting. I'm pretty sure it would be a disaster, but it would be an interesting disaster.

Sheridan out in New York.

New York Giants fire defensive coordinator Bill Sheridan - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4795970)

That would be...interesting. I'm pretty sure it would be a disaster, but it would be an interesting disaster.
I was hoping Charlie Weis (think he was a crappy college coach but a real good offensive mind) but there is no way he takes a 1-year deal.

Press conference scheduled for 2pm tomorrow at Halas Hall.

Not sure where you're getting that it sounds like Mangini is out. I haven't heard anything either way.

Not sure...


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0608/ncf_g_suhts_576.jpg
I would almost put dollars to donuts that say Suh does not go to the Rams.

I would almost put dollars to donuts that say Suh does not go to the Rams.

Ok, I'm game. :)

I'd really like to see the Rams sell yet another defensive linemen to their disinterested fans. They probably can score some major value with a trade down, though, and still get one of the top 2 QB's I'd think. Seahawks trade 6 and 14 for #1?

Also, from NFL.COM
Picks 21 to 24 will be the wild-card losers. Picks 25 to 28 will be the divisional-round losers. Picks 29-30 will be the conference championship losers. Pick 31 will be the Super Bowl loser. Pick 32 will be the Super Bowl winner

This is new, right? I must have missed it, but it's actually a really good idea.

I think that's new. The SB winner always got the last pick and the SB loser always had the next to last, but in previous years they just ordered everyone from 1-29 by record. regardless of playoff results.

This is new, right? I must have missed it, but it's actually a really good idea.

Im not sure on 21-30 but the last two picks have gone to the SB winner and SB runner up as long as I can remember.

Ok, I'm game. :)

It would probably be a huge mistake to pass on Suh but they need a QB and some WRs in the worse way. They cant go another year with Bulger I wouldnt think.

I feel sorry for Jackson every time I see a Rams game. Such a great back with nothing around him.

Early word is Lovie is back, Ron Turner is gone, Rod Marinelli is the new D-Coordinator. Meet the new bosses, same as the old.

Money talks. 1 more year of uselessness, at the least.

Early word is Lovie is back, Ron Turner is gone, Rod Marinelli is the new D-Coordinator. Meet the new bosses, same as the old.

Money talks. 1 more year of uselessness, at the least.
The problem with that is that it's still Lovie's defense. Just someone else running the meetings.

The problem with that is that it's still Lovie's defense. Just someone else running the meetings.

Perry Fewell is a name that's being bounced around. If he's hired, then it's definitely more of the same.

It would probably be a huge mistake to pass on Suh but they need a QB and some WRs in the worse way. They cant go another year with Bulger I wouldnt think.

I feel sorry for Jackson every time I see a Rams game. Such a great back with nothing around him.

You can get good value at 2.1 for a QB, or WR. You aren't finding Suh type of value at 1.1 for those positions.

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The problem with that is that it's still Lovie's defense. Just someone else running the meetings.

No argument from me. This team doesn't change until Lovie is gone.

You can get good value at 2.1 for a QB, or WR. You aren't finding Suh type of value at 1.1 for those positions.

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Suh is setting up nicely to be the next Brian Bosworth. ;)

Ken Laird just reported on ESPN radio from the Southside that Bruce Arians is going to be out.

It would probably be a huge mistake to pass on Suh but they need a QB and some WRs in the worse way. They cant go another year with Bulger I wouldnt think.

I feel sorry for Jackson every time I see a Rams game. Such a great back with nothing around him.

They could find a QB in the 2nd round, I would believe.

Ken Laird just reported on ESPN radio from the Southside that Bruce Arians is going to be out.
There is a god!

Then again hopefully we don't hire Mike Martz.

Listened to the Bears press conference this afternoon. My summary:


Ron Turner and 5 position coaches have been canned.
Lovie Smith will no longer be acting as Defensive Coordinator.
Ted Phillips may be fine when it comes to being an executive, but he should stay the hell away from a microphone at all times.
Lovie Smith and Jerry Angelo still have currency with the Bears organization, presumably from the Super Bowl run. It wouldn't surprise me if they've now used up the last of that currency.
Winning the last two games of the year helped Lovie survive for another year.
Whoever comes in as DC will be running the Tampa 2, and will probably end up being little more than a yes-man for Lovie.

So, much as expected...

Turner is the sacrificial lamb, and it's business as usual for another season.

They could find a QB in the 2nd round, I would believe.

Well they could but many times them 2nd round QBs are project types.

They are going to need a player that will keep the fans coming to the games since they likely arent going to be winning many games for a few years. Im not sure if a great DT is on a lousy team is going to keep the fans excited.

I wonder if Jeremy Bates leaves USC to be reunited with Cutler in Chicago (either as OC or QB coach.)

The Rams problems are not so much the D.

They could find a QB in the 2nd round, I would believe.

Not much of one I'm afraid. Just picking a list to work from, regardless of rank order this at least provides the possible names.
NFL Draft - 2010_QB Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2010_QB)

The top 10 seniors this year are McCoy, Tebow, Pike, Canfield, Lefevour, Brown (WVU), Crompton, Skelton, Skull (Fordham), and Kafka. Add Clausen & Bradford into that list as well, and I guess Snead if he declares.

Assuming Claussen & Bradford go in the first then the only shot might be probably McCoy and that's assuming he falls through the first. Otherwise, are you really prepared to hand a team over to any of the other names on the list besides Tebow & he doesn't seem like a fit for the Rams to me.

I wonder if Jeremy Bates leaves USC to be reunited with Cutler in Chicago (either as OC or QB coach.)

Martz is already publicly lobbying for the OC job, but I've seen Bates' name mentioned a couple times.

Please, for the love of all that is good and holy, do not hire Mike Martz. Please? I'd like Jay Cutler to live to see the year 2011.

Please, for the love of all that is good and holy, do not hire Mike Martz. Please? I'd like Jay Cutler to live to see the year 2011.

Marinelli + Martz = SUPER SUCCESS!!

Do it! Come on, Chicago! DO IT!

Martz is a mad genius. Look at the kind of numbers Jon "Jesus" Kitna put up under Martz? Think of what Cutler could do in that system. Between Marinelli and his pad level and Tampa 2 and Martz's air attack... It would be unstoppable!

Also, St. Louis needs to draw fans. Draft Jimmy Clausen, Sam Bradford, Dez Bryant, or someone like that. The people love that kind of thing. Haven't they had enough defensive linemen over the past several years?

Not much of one I'm afraid. Just picking a list to work from, regardless of rank order this at least provides the possible names.
NFL Draft - 2010_QB Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2010_QB)

The top 10 seniors this year are McCoy, Tebow, Pike, Canfield, Lefevour, Brown (WVU), Crompton, Skelton, Skull (Fordham), and Kafka. Add Clausen & Bradford into that list as well, and I guess Snead if he declares.

Assuming Claussen & Bradford go in the first then the only shot might be probably McCoy and that's assuming he falls through the first. Otherwise, are you really prepared to hand a team over to any of the other names on the list besides Tebow & he doesn't seem like a fit for the Rams to me.

Yes, in my opinion at least, as to me Pike and LeFevour are a hair behind Clausen and an injured Bradford. There are enough questions about these guys where they don't look anywhere close to be locks to be successful. Add in the tremendous amount of guaranteed money a QB gets for going #1, and you can sure as hell say I'd take my chances with Suh + Pike/LeFevour.

Well they could but many times them 2nd round QBs are project types.

They are going to need a player that will keep the fans coming to the games since they likely arent going to be winning many games for a few years. Im not sure if a great DT is on a lousy team is going to keep the fans excited.

I'm excited at what's about to come! These fans here are all baseball F them! :D

Not much of one I'm afraid. Just picking a list to work from, regardless of rank order this at least provides the possible names.
NFL Draft - 2010_QB Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2010_QB)

The top 10 seniors this year are McCoy, Tebow, Pike, Canfield, Lefevour, Brown (WVU), Crompton, Skelton, Skull (Fordham), and Kafka. Add Clausen & Bradford into that list as well, and I guess Snead if he declares.

Assuming Claussen & Bradford go in the first then the only shot might be probably McCoy and that's assuming he falls through the first. Otherwise, are you really prepared to hand a team over to any of the other names on the list besides Tebow & he doesn't seem like a fit for the Rams to me.

Suh is > than any player, reguardless of position

Marinelli + Martz = SUPER SUCCESS!!

Do it! Come on, Chicago! DO IT!

Martz is a mad genius. Look at the kind of numbers Jon "Jesus" Kitna put up under Martz? Think of what Cutler could do in that system. Between Marinelli and his pad level and Tampa 2 and Martz's air attack... It would be unstoppable!

Great post, in large part because of the source and also because I second the thought as a Packer fan.

Suh is > than any player, reguardless of position

I don't disagree, but that's different than them being able to get an NFL starting QB in R2 this year.

Please, for the love of all that is good and holy, do not hire Mike Martz. Please? I'd like Jay Cutler to live to see the year 2011.
I'm not sure why anyone of substance would come to coach the Bears O. It'll be a one-year deal only as another bad season and the entire coaching staff and GM gets overhauled.

Suh looks good, but is DE worth taking at 1.1? I look at all the sack leaders and the majority of DEs in there were taken in later rounds. Dumervil, Allen, Cole, Schoebel, Mathis, Edwards, etc. Not saying Suh won't be a stud, but I'm trying to think of DEs that have gone #1 overall and had great success. I guess Peppers is the closest I can think about.

Listened to the Bears press conference this afternoon. My summary:
Ron Turner and 5 position coaches have been canned.
Lovie Smith will no longer be acting as Defensive Coordinator.
Ted Phillips may be fine when it comes to being an executive, but he should stay the hell away from a microphone at all times.
Lovie Smith and Jerry Angelo still have currency with the Bears organization, presumably from the Super Bowl run. It wouldn't surprise me if they've now used up the last of that currency.
Winning the last two games of the year helped Lovie survive for another year.
Whoever comes in as DC will be running the Tampa 2, and will probably end up being little more than a yes-man for Lovie.Yeah, this press conference surprised no one. It's more of the same crap this organization has done through much of its existence in the NFL. Their words say that they want to win but their actions say something different. They are at the bottom of the league when it comes to football smarts. And taking money out of the equation, what can proponents of Lovey/Jerry cite as being reasons to keep them? Oh..it must be that great track record of making it to the playoffs. :banghead:<roll eyes=""><roll eyes=""></roll></roll>

Suh looks good, but is DE worth taking at 1.1? I look at all the sack leaders and the majority of DEs in there were taken in later rounds. Dumervil, Allen, Cole, Schoebel, Mathis, Edwards, etc. Not saying Suh won't be a stud, but I'm trying to think of DEs that have gone #1 overall and had great success. I guess Peppers is the closest I can think about.

Mario Williams?

edit: Courtney Brown was a miss in 2000, but the prior #1 overall DE was Bruce Smith in '85.

edit #2: As I look on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_first_overall_National_Football_League_draft_picks), going back further...

1976: Lee Roy Selmon - 6 Pro Bowls
1974: Too Tall Jones - HoF
1973: John Matsuzak - Miss
1967: Bubba Smith - HoF

So it looks like 1.1 DEs have been pretty damn successful. Of course, all this is contingent on Suh actually being a DE, and he's looking more like a DT.

There is a god!

Then again hopefully we don't hire Mike Martz.

I don't get the hate for Arians this season. Big Ben threw for over 4,000 yards, had 26 TDs to 12 INTs, and finished the season with a rating over 100. Holmes and Ward each went for over 1100 yards receiving, Miller had a career year w/ over 700 yards, and Mike Wallace came out of nowhere to give, pretty much, a prototypical 3rd receiver/deep threat season. Mendenhall went over 1,000 yards and both he and Parker averaged over 4 YPC. All of this with an offensive line full of late picks and undrafted/afterthought offensive linemen.

It sucks that we missed the playoffs and dropped to 9-7, but it wasn't the offense's fault and certainly not Arians' fault. It isn't Arians' fault that the kickoff team allowed 4 TD returns (all in games that were very close) or that Troy Polamalu was only healthy for a handful of games this season or that Roethlisberger had some poorly timed injuries that directly lead to losses (do we lose to KC or Baltimore, both in OT, if Roethlisberger is the QB rather than a rusty Batch or Dennis Dixon?). He is an easy scapegoat and I haven't been his biggest fan through the past few seasons, but I don't see a whole lot more that he could have done with this offense, given the offensive line situation, Sweed's seeming to forget how to catch the football even though he has the ability to consistently get open and the inherent flaws in Roethlisberger's game.

Suh looks good, but is DE worth taking at 1.1? I look at all the sack leaders and the majority of DEs in there were taken in later rounds. Dumervil, Allen, Cole, Schoebel, Mathis, Edwards, etc. Not saying Suh won't be a stud, but I'm trying to think of DEs that have gone #1 overall and had great success. I guess Peppers is the closest I can think about.

Suh is 6'4, 300 lbs. He is a DT through and through. Very comparable to Kevin Williams, both size and skill wise.

As a fan of a team who had a dominant DT a few years ago (Tommie Harris), it can change the entire team. It is worth taking a chance on because they can literally make everyone on the team look good.

Harris commanded a double team on every down which left the ends and other tackle with one blocker. The linebackers like Urlacher and Briggs had free reign. Pass rush was so good that it made our corners and safeties look like Pro Bowlers. I mean Nathan Vasher got a huge contract and made the Pro Bowl thanks to Harris. I still contend that if he didn't get hurt, the Bears would have won the Super Bowl in 2006.

Anyways, the Rams would be insane to pass on Suh. He's already got NFL size and moves. Plus the word is that his work ethic is incredible.

Not sure if this was posted, but apparently Jamarcus Russell left town early and skipped out on final meetings for a trip to Vegas.

Candid Cam: JaMarcus Russell's Vegas vacation? - Inside Bay Area (http://www.insidebayarea.com/sports/ci_14128243)

If I'm the Raiders, I cut the guy. Seriously, he's not going to change. He's a fat loser who got his money and doesn't care. He's Ryan Leaf.

I doubt Jay Cutler would be willing to put in the kind of work necessary to be successful under Mike Martz, given that Martz tends to install ridiculously complex systems.

Mario Williams?

edit: Courtney Brown was a miss in 2000, but the prior #1 overall DE was Bruce Smith in '85.

edit #2: As I look on wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_first_overall_National_Football_League_draft_picks), going back further...

1976: Lee Roy Selmon - 6 Pro Bowls
1974: Too Tall Jones - HoF
1973: John Matsuzak - Miss
1967: Bubba Smith - HoF

So it looks like 1.1 DEs have been pretty damn successful. Of course, all this is contingent on Suh actually being a DE, and he's looking more like a DT.

I think maybe what I was trying to say is that easier to find value at DE in rounds 2 and 3 than it is on QBs. Maybe it's because more QBs are drafted higher up, but the sack leaderboards are studded with guys taken later, whereas outside of Romo and Brady, the majority of QBs that are successful are taken in the first 2 rounds. Obviously not saying taking a QB in the first is even sometimes a boon (hello Alex Smith, Leaf, Carr, Akili, and Cade).

Ken Laird just reported on ESPN radio from the Southside that Bruce Arians is going to be out.

Arians will return to Steelers | ProFootballTalk.com (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/06/arians-will-return-to-steelers/)

Arians to return.

Arians will return to Steelers | ProFootballTalk.com (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/01/06/arians-will-return-to-steelers/)

Arians to return.

Yeah but they fired the O-Line coach.

Quarterbacks: Best and Worst



Top 5

1) Tom Brady, New England Patriots: 2,159 DYAR (2,170 passing DYAR, -11 rushing)
2) Philip Rivers, San Diego Chargers: 1,918 DYAR (1,919 passing DYAR, -2 rushing)
3) Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts: 1,911 DYAR (1,932 passing DYAR, -21 rushing)
4) Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints: 1,884 DYAR (1,846 passing DYAR, 39 rushing)
5) Brett Favre, Minnesota Vikings: 1,797 DYAR (1,803 passing DYAR, -6 rushing)


Analysis: How are Peyton Manning and Drew Brees not, in some order, 1-2? The answer is strength of schedule. The difference between Brady's DVOA and VOA (our DVOA statistic, minus the defensive adjustments) is 9.5 percentage points, the largest such figure in the league for any quarterback with more than 100 attempts. That makes sense when you look at Brady's schedule: Over the course of the season, the Patriots played the pass defenses DVOA ranked first (the New York Jets, who they played twice), second (Carolina Panthers), third (Buffalo Bills, again twice), fifth (Denver Broncos), sixth (Baltimore Ravens, with a second matchup coming this weekend) and ninth (Saints). That's half a season against defenses ranked in the top 10, plus two games against the defense ranked 11th (Miami Dolphins). Brady had only one game against a pass defense ranked in the bottom five. Based on our numbers, Brady played the hardest schedule of pass defenses of any quarterback in the past 15 years.




Bottom 5

1) JaMarcus Russell, Oakland Raiders: -722 DYAR (-755 passing DYAR, 33 rushing)
2) Matthew Stafford, Detroit Lions: -498 DYAR (-531 passing DYAR, 33 rushing)
3) Matt Cassel, Kansas City Chiefs: -483 DYAR (-460 passing DYAR, -20 rushing)
4) Keith Null, St. Louis Rams: -402 DYAR (-394 passing DYAR, -7 rushing)
5) Derek Anderson, Cleveland Browns: -342 DYAR (-361 passing DYAR, 19 rushing)


Analysis: Russell's minus-722 DYAR is not only the worst by a wide margin, but it stands as the fifth-worst single-season quarterback DYAR in the 16-year history of the metric. He finished ahead of only David Carr (2002, -1,075 DYAR), Bobby Hoying (1998, -1,004 DYAR), Alex Smith (2005, -910 DYAR), and Akili Smith (2000, -733 DYAR). Russell recorded positive DYAR only twice during the season, in Week 1 (19 DYAR) and Week 15 (17 DYAR). On a bright note, he finished last for the week only once.


Null's inclusion on this list is also remarkable considering that he only played four games, but his week-by-week DYAR totals go minus-191, minus-60, minus-85 and minus-67. He never made it out of the bottom six in DYAR during any of the weeks he started.


Other Quarterback Trends



Better than his standard statistics made him look: Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons: Outside of Brady, Ryan had the biggest difference between his DVOA and VOA, 8.3 percentage points. (Backup Chris Redman was at 9.1 percent.) Although Ryan's sophomore season was considered a disappointment by most, his DVOA only fell from an elite 30.4 percent in 2008 to a very good 16.7 percent this season. If you believed that Ryan was a star a year ago, his advanced metrics suggest that's still the case.

Yeah but they fired the O-Line coach.

They better fire their special teams coach(es).

I'm not sure why anyone of substance would come to coach the Bears O. It'll be a one-year deal only as another bad season and the entire coaching staff and GM gets overhauled.

This is the main reason I'm hopeful that Bates won't go to Chicago. I know a lot of SC fans who want him to leave, but I'm not convinced we'll get someone better and I think he is only going to improve with a year of experience.

Weis and Pioli, back together...

Sources: Charlie Weis to become Kansas City Chiefs offensive coordinator - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4802526)

People forget that Suh has already missed a season because of knee surgery and banged up his knee again 2 years later. He could very well be a guy that slides because of injury concerns. Especially with guys like Eric Berry and Gerald McCoy in the same draft.

I don't disagree, but that's different than them being able to get an NFL starting QB in R2 this year.

I'm not sure there are any clear cut starting QB's in the draft.. to me, it's too muddy at that position for a clear 1.1 pick.

I just feel Suh is so far ahead of being a sure thing, that I don't see how any team could NOT take him and feel good about someone else at that spot.

People forget that Suh has already missed a season because of knee surgery and banged up his knee again 2 years later. He could very well be a guy that slides because of injury concerns. Especially with guys like Eric Berry and Gerald McCoy in the same draft.

But hasn't he played two years of injury free, dominating football?

Eric Berry is phenomenal, but, he's still a safety. Zero chance of being the #1 pick.

Weis and Pioli, back together...

Sources: Charlie Weis to become Kansas City Chiefs offensive coordinator - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4802526)

I guess this lets us know who is in charge in KC. Pioli appears to be pulling the strings.

I saw that KC along with the Giants are pursuing Romeo Crennel as well. Trying to get the old band together again apparantly.

Quarterbacks: Best and Worst



Top 5

1) Tom Brady, New England Patriots: 2,159 DYAR (2,170 passing DYAR, -11 rushing)
2) Philip Rivers, San Diego Chargers: 1,918 DYAR (1,919 passing DYAR, -2 rushing)
3) Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts: 1,911 DYAR (1,932 passing DYAR, -21 rushing)
4) Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints: 1,884 DYAR (1,846 passing DYAR, 39 rushing)
5) Brett Favre, Minnesota Vikings: 1,797 DYAR (1,803 passing DYAR, -6 rushing)
Analysis: How are Peyton Manning and Drew Brees not, in some order, 1-2? The answer is strength of schedule. The difference between Brady's DVOA and VOA (our DVOA statistic, minus the defensive adjustments) is 9.5 percentage points, the largest such figure in the league for any quarterback with more than 100 attempts. That makes sense when you look at Brady's schedule: Over the course of the season, the Patriots played the pass defenses DVOA ranked first (the New York Jets, who they played twice), second (Carolina Panthers), third (Buffalo Bills, again twice), fifth (Denver Broncos), sixth (Baltimore Ravens, with a second matchup coming this weekend) and ninth (Saints). That's half a season against defenses ranked in the top 10, plus two games against the defense ranked 11th (Miami Dolphins). Brady had only one game against a pass defense ranked in the bottom five. Based on our numbers, Brady played the hardest schedule of pass defenses of any quarterback in the past 15 years.




Bottom 5

1) JaMarcus Russell, Oakland Raiders: -722 DYAR (-755 passing DYAR, 33 rushing)
2) Matthew Stafford, Detroit Lions: -498 DYAR (-531 passing DYAR, 33 rushing)
3) Matt Cassel, Kansas City Chiefs: -483 DYAR (-460 passing DYAR, -20 rushing)
4) Keith Null, St. Louis Rams: -402 DYAR (-394 passing DYAR, -7 rushing)
5) Derek Anderson, Cleveland Browns: -342 DYAR (-361 passing DYAR, 19 rushing)
Analysis: Russell's minus-722 DYAR is not only the worst by a wide margin, but it stands as the fifth-worst single-season quarterback DYAR in the 16-year history of the metric. He finished ahead of only David Carr (2002, -1,075 DYAR), Bobby Hoying (1998, -1,004 DYAR), Alex Smith (2005, -910 DYAR), and Akili Smith (2000, -733 DYAR). Russell recorded positive DYAR only twice during the season, in Week 1 (19 DYAR) and Week 15 (17 DYAR). On a bright note, he finished last for the week only once.


Null's inclusion on this list is also remarkable considering that he only played four games, but his week-by-week DYAR totals go minus-191, minus-60, minus-85 and minus-67. He never made it out of the bottom six in DYAR during any of the weeks he started.


Other Quarterback Trends



Better than his standard statistics made him look: Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons: Outside of Brady, Ryan had the biggest difference between his DVOA and VOA, 8.3 percentage points. (Backup Chris Redman was at 9.1 percent.) Although Ryan's sophomore season was considered a disappointment by most, his DVOA only fell from an elite 30.4 percent in 2008 to a very good 16.7 percent this season. If you believed that Ryan was a star a year ago, his advanced metrics suggest that's still the case.


WTF does any of that mean? I feel like I'm back in the military with a frackin acrunym for taking a shit.... ""I'll be OOC for JAB due to TAS"

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Methods To Our Madness (http://footballoutsiders.com/info/methods)

Worth the read.

I guess this lets us know who is in charge in KC. Pioli appears to be pulling the strings.

I saw that KC along with the Giants are pursuing Romeo Crennel as well. Trying to get the old band together again apparantly.

Isn't Pioli the GM? Why wouldn't he be pulling the strings??

WTF does any of that mean? I feel like I'm back in the military with a frackin acrunym for taking a shit.... ""I'll be OOC for JAB due to TAS"

I want to B my L on her T's

Isn't Pioli the GM? Why wouldn't he be pulling the strings??

Point being that the head coach selected his coordinator in his first year. It's obvious that Pioli is the one making the selections this time around.

As a fan of a team who had a dominant DT a few years ago (Tommie Harris), it can change the entire team. It is worth taking a chance on because they can literally make everyone on the team look good.

Harris commanded a double team on every down which left the ends and other tackle with one blocker. The linebackers like Urlacher and Briggs had free reign. Pass rush was so good that it made our corners and safeties look like Pro Bowlers. I mean Nathan Vasher got a huge contract and made the Pro Bowl thanks to Harris. I still contend that if he didn't get hurt, the Bears would have won the Super Bowl in 2006.

Anyways, the Rams would be insane to pass on Suh. He's already got NFL size and moves. Plus the word is that his work ethic is incredible.

+1000

DT and o-linemen are the most underrated positions on the field. they make everyone around them look better. take a few good linemen away and that "stud" qb looks average and so do your wr's. same goes on defense

I still do not understand why Shanahan would sign with the Redskins for $7 million a year, when he is making $8 million a year with the Broncos staying at home?

I still do not understand why Shanahan would sign with the Redskins for $7 million a year, when he is making $8 million a year with the Broncos staying at home?

He likes to coach?

Maybe he likes to coach.

He likes to coach!

He likes to coach football?

They better fire their special teams coach(es).

Steelers Coach Mike Tomlin continued to make changes in his coaching staff today, firing special teams coordinator Bob Ligashesky, the Post-Gazette has learned.

Point being that the head coach selected his coordinator in his first year. It's obvious that Pioli is the one making the selections this time around.

Actually, ESPN radio Mike and Mike/Cowherd said word on the inside was the Coach was pushhing for this more than Pioli.

Mangini and staff to stay on, per Schefter.

Mora out in Seattle, per Glazer.

Interesting about Mora. Given that all indications from ownership were that he was not going to lose his job, the only thing I can think of is that the rumors of the team not "buying in" to his program was true.

Which also indicates that we've got a bunch of bitch-ass crybaby players. I think this team really just is old and not all that good anymore.

The mixed messages from management don't bode well though, especially with Paul Allen being ill. It's going to be a challenge for whoever the next GM is.

I think this is a good move for the Seahawks. I had high hopes for Mora, but the on field product and rumors about the locker room were very bad signs for a guy who had been in that locker room long enough that he should have known how to deal with the guys.

They may also be in position to greatly capitalize on the cap free year if it happens. Given the rules in place for that eventuality, an owner with deep pockets willing to eat a few contracts could fix a lot of problems that with cuts they probably wouldn't consider otherwise.

Very important offseason coming up for the team and if they hire the proper people for the GM and HC spots as well as hit on 3 of their top 4 picks, this team could turn it around in a hurry.

You also have to wonder if Seattle's trying to make a run at one of the "Big 3" unemployed HCs out there (Cowher, Shanahan, Gruden), though admittedly more than one of them might already be effectively gone.

Shanahan is the head coach of the Washington Redskins.

ESPN seems to think it'll be Carroll to the Hawks. They just can't go a season without shamelessly throwing his name out there can they?

Rest easy USC fans, as Mort says he'll be shocked if it didn't happen. Expect Cowher now.

Rest easy USC fans, as Mort says he'll be shocked if it didn't happen. Expect Cowher now.

I was never worried about that for a second... now when a NFL team moves to Los Angeles, I will get a bit worried.

I don't see it happening but as I think about it, Carroll to the Hawks isn't that absurd. He'd get full control of the football operations which it seems like he wants. So if that happened it wouldn't be too nuts.

When you have a good thing going in college, why go back to the NFL, where you have already failed (for the most part)?

When you have a good thing going in college, why go back to the NFL, where you have already failed (for the most part)?

I wouldn't say he failed. He finished 33-31, and 1-2 in the playoffs. His last 3 years in NE he was 10-7, 9-7, 8-8. Not great but not as awful as a lot of people make him out to be.

I don't see it happening but as I think about it, Carroll to the Hawks isn't that absurd. He'd get full control of the football operations which it seems like he wants. So if that happened it wouldn't be too nuts.

Especially if he's worried about the NCAA coming to get the program eventually.

Especially if he's worried about the NCAA coming to get the program eventually.

Also a very good point.

I wouldn't say he failed. He finished 33-31, and 1-2 in the playoffs. His last 3 years in NE he was 10-7, 9-7, 8-8. Not great but not as awful as a lot of people make him out to be.

Failure. I welcome him to come back and replace Belicheck.

Carroll may have been 33-31, but by the end of his tenure he had totally lost the players by treating them like college kids (from what i remember - that was before i got very into football).

Carroll may have been 33-31, but by the end of his tenure he had totally lost the players by treating them like college kids (from what i remember - that was before i got very into football).

Yup. He took a pretty decent roster and drove it into the ground.

So Mora is too buddy-buddy rah-rah with players to control the team so we're now talking about Pete Carroll???

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuccccccccccckkkkkkkkkkk.

Especially if he's worried about the NCAA coming to get the program eventually.

Reggie Bush situation?

Reggie Bush situation?

Bullet point #1.

There are other bullets.

Which also indicates that we've got a bunch of bitch-ass crybaby players. I think this team really just is old and not all that good anymore.

ESPN seems to think it'll be Carroll to the Hawks. They just can't go a season without shamelessly throwing his name out there can they?

Perfect. Been there, done that, except now Pete will have to learn how to coach players with less money.

Yeah, Carroll is high-tailing it out of there in the event the NCAA grows some balls and penalizes USC.

I was never worried about that for a second... now when a NFL team moves to Los Angeles, I will get a bit worried.

I'm now worried. This has nothing to do with NCAA sanctions and everything to do with Paul Allen reportedly offering Pete close to 50 million over 5 years and complete control.

I do love the backup plan of Mike Riley if Pete leaves. He wanted to come to USC years ago when SD wouldn't let him interview and he did wonderful things with Canfield's development. I think he would help retain at least the offensive recruits in this class.

I do love the backup plan of Mike Riley if Pete leaves. He wanted to come to USC years ago when SD wouldn't let him interview and he did wonderful things with Canfield's development. I think he would help retain at least the offensive recruits in this class.

This is my nightmare, and it could realistically happen.

You see, Carroll is easy to demonize. He's petulant, whiny, classless, hypocritical and egotistical asshat, and he recruits a lot of players & coaches of that same bent (not all, most USC players aren't any different than other college programs, but Carroll does seem to attract a certain "swagger" of athlete, if you will).

From what reports have stated, funny stuff has been going on at USC, and Pete's gotten really good at looking the other way, if the rumors are anywhere near true. If the NCAA does come around and lay down trhe hammer, Carroll deserves to be on campus for it and taking the brunt of it. But it apepars that won't happen; he'll hightail it like Floyd did, leaving the players and new staff to take on the punishment, despite not being involved at all.

So I'm annoyed at that, and then, turnaround, the guy USC might hire is one of the nicest coaches in football, and just not a guy that it's easy to root against. It would be a lot harder for me to dislike USC with Mike Riley at the helm, and at the same time, I don't think there would be much drop off, outside of possible sanctions.

Riley would be a great hire for USC.

Good luck Seattle. Despite all his success at USC when I hear his name all that comes to mind is is laughable Pats days.

I wouldn't say he failed. He finished 33-31, and 1-2 in the playoffs. His last 3 years in NE he was 10-7, 9-7, 8-8. Not great but not as awful as a lot of people make him out to be.
He inherited a Super Bowl team that had been improving for several years. He came on and the team got progressivly worse year by year under his watch. It's not like he inherited a mess or even an average club. That and he always looked confused and frightened on the sideline. Probably wasn't true, but that perception didn't instill confidence.

Really the only positive thing you could say is he was sandwiched in between Parcells and Belichick, so maybe they made him look worse than he really was.

And Peyton Manning wins his 4th MVP:

Indianapolis Colts quarterback Peyton Manning corrals NFL-record fourth MVP - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4811050)

Pete is going to struggle in the NFL I think. He is focused on bringing his guys and while losing Norton will really hurt USC and help Seattle, Pete reportedly is also taking Seto with him. If he keeps all of his guys around him, that is going to be a weak NFL staff.

Pete is going to struggle in the NFL I think. He is focused on bringing his guys and while losing Norton will really hurt USC and help Seattle, Pete reportedly is also taking Seto with him. If he keeps all of his guys around him, that is going to be a weak NFL staff.

Bates is supposed to interview in Chicago Tuesday. Have you heard anything about Pete taking him to Seattle?

Bates is supposed to interview in Chicago Tuesday. Have you heard anything about Pete taking him to Seattle?

I've heard that Pete loves Bates and is trying to convince him to go with him, but nothing beyond that. He's trying to take most of his current USC staff with him actually which is going to hurt USC but also hurt Seattle as I think only a few of them are good NFL quality coaches (most notably Norton who has proven he can develop linebackers.)

Pete is going to struggle in the NFL I think. He is focused on bringing his guys and while losing Norton will really hurt USC and help Seattle, Pete reportedly is also taking Seto with him. If he keeps all of his guys around him, that is going to be a weak NFL staff.

He's taking Seto? Wow...okay, that surprises me. Ruel, Norton, Franklin, Bates...those guys don't surprise me. Veteran coaches with NFL resumes and proven ability. Seto is largely unproven or proven to not be all that great, depending on how you view the impact of USC's losses last year on this year's team and on whether there was enough improvement in the D across the whole season.

He wouldn't hire him as the DC, would he? Or is this one of those "Seto is the DC in name only" sort of things?

He's taking Seto? Wow...okay, that surprises me. Ruel, Norton, Franklin, Bates...those guys don't surprise me. Veteran coaches with NFL resumes and proven ability. Seto is largely unproven or proven to not be all that great, depending on how you view the impact of USC's losses last year on this year's team and on whether there was enough improvement in the D across the whole season.

He wouldn't hire him as the DC, would he? Or is this one of those "Seto is the DC in name only" sort of things?

I'm also surprised that he is taking Seto. At least, he is being loyal to "his guys" and keeping that consistent. I'm thinking that Seto would be a DB coach in the NFL, but I haven't heard anything about what position he will have, just that he is almost certainly going to be on Pete's staff. Ruel and Norton seem like definite hires for his staff as well.

Edit: Although USC will fight hard to keep Norton and they might be successful in doing so if they give him enough power/money.

Really the only positive thing you could say is he was sandwiched in between Parcells and Belichick, so maybe they made him look worse than he really was.

Carroll was the coach for the Jets before Rich Kotite, so he is a football god in New York

Bates is supposed to interview in Chicago Tuesday. Have you heard anything about Pete taking him to Seattle?

Just heard (and ESPN is also reporting it) that Bates has decided to accept Pete's offer in part because he thinks it offers longer job security with the uncertain situation in Chicago.

Just heard (and ESPN is also reporting it) that Bates has decided to accept Pete's offer in part because he thinks it offers longer job security with the uncertain situation in Chicago.

Crappy situation for the Bears that was already foretold by some here earlier this week (IIRC). Who really wants that job with Lovie Smith on the hot seat and one more year on his deal? And a mixed bag with respect to offensive talent? They're going to have to accept some position coach loking for his first opportunity at a coordinator job, I'll bet.

Crappy situation for the Bears that was already foretold by some here earlier this week (IIRC). Who really wants that job with Lovie Smith on the hot seat and one more year on his deal? And a mixed bag with respect to offensive talent? They're going to have to accept some position coach loking for his first opportunity at a coordinator job, I'll bet.

And word is their first and only choice for Def Coordinator, Perry Fewell, is now off to the Giants. Whee.

Carroll was the coach for the Jets before Rich Kotite, so he is a football god in New York

Fucking Rich Kotite...you just ruined my day. Every time some Eagles fan bitches about Andy Reid they should be shown a picture of Kotite.

Time to bring back Buddy Ryan.

And word is their first and only choice for Def Coordinator, Perry Fewell, is now off to the Giants. Whee.

Perry Farrell? So no Janes reunion tour?

Time to bring back Buddy Ryan.

Kissing Suzy Kolber » Blog Archive » Coach Ryan Gets An Unwelcome Visitor | kissingsuzykolber.com (http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2010/01/coach-ryan-gets-an-unwelcome-visitor.html)

Fucking Rich Kotite...you just ruined my day. Every time some Eagles fan bitches about Andy Reid they should be shown a picture of Kotite.

You mean this guy? :p

http://www.the700level.com/images/rich_kotite_2.jpg

... and then, turnaround, the guy USC might hire is one of the nicest coaches in football, and just not a guy that it's easy to root against.

Well at least that situation was avoided ;)

Pats fired their defensive coordinator, Dean Pees.

That's all well and good, but maybe they should replace the magic 8 ball calling their offensive plays.

Pats fired there defensive coordinator, Dean Pees.

That's all well and good, but maybe they should replace the magic 8 ball calling their offensive plays.

replace them both. and get me a RB, a third WR (Edelman maybe?), and some fucknig pass-rush please.

shit, i'm of the opinion you prolly need a #2 WR for at least most of next year too...I think it's prolly like 50/50 odds that Welker is on IR the whole year (or at least that he probably should be to return with full Welker-ness if possible).

replace them both. and get me a RB, a third WR (Edelman maybe?), and some fucknig pass-rush please.

shit, i'm of the opinion you prolly need a #2 WR for at least most of next year too...I think it's prolly like 50/50 odds that Welker is on IR the whole year (or at least that he probably should be to return with full Welker-ness if possible).

I think we're pretty close to needing a #1. Can't tell if Moss is completely disinterested, or doesn't have much left in the tank.

I'm not completely unsold on the idea that they just don't look to him in certain coverages, at all. In 2007 they were tossing it to him when he was doubled and sometimes triple covered and he was just pulling them down. That's how they put the crazy numbers up. About 3/4 through the season they just stopped.

I'm not saying they should go hog wild, but take a risk every once in awhile. Randy seems to make those plays, at least he did when they were trying.

Do we really think Welker is pulling in 100+ catches without Moss? Would be interesting to see.

i think they certainly have to consider the idea of a #1 yeah...we'll see

I'm not completely unsold on the idea that they just don't look to him in certain coverages, at all. In 2007 they were tossing it to him when he was doubled and sometimes triple covered and he was just pulling them down. That's how they put the crazy numbers up. About 3/4 through the season they just stopped.

I'm not saying they should go hog wild, but take a risk every once in awhile. Randy seems to make those plays, at least he did when they were trying.

Do we really think Welker is pulling in 100+ catches without Moss? Would be interesting to see.

That version 6.3 is a bitch.

You mean this guy? :p

http://www.the700level.com/images/rich_kotite_2.jpg

"Sparring partner for Muhammad Ali." It all makes sense now.

"Sparring partner for Muhammad Ali." It all makes sense now.


So thats where the dope came from

replace them both. and get me a RB, a third WR (Edelman maybe?), and some fucknig pass-rush please.I think RB was fine. Maroney will likely be gone and we'll probably pick someone up mid/late in the draft or in FA, but I thought Taylor/Morris/Faulk all looked good at times. WR you need a legitimate 2 more than a 3. Put Edelman in the slot, and even if he's playing great when Welker returns you can use them both in the 4 WR spread sets we like to use. Burgess actually was pretty well-rounded and complimented Mayo well, but adding a 3rd LB would be huge. Banta-Cain may have had 10 sacks, but just wasn't cutting it as an every down player.

Anyone saying Randy Moss is done or doesn't help the team isn't worth arguing with at this point.

Well at least that situation was avoided ;)

Heh, heh...yeah, glad for that. Like I said in the college football hiring thread, "at least I can hate USC again". :)

Chan Gailey to Buffalo as HC .. wow.

Also, Mike Nolan and Josh McDaniels "mutually part ways" so Denver is in the market for a DC.

Looks like Brian Westbrook is going to retire :(

Looks like Brian Westbrook is going to retire :(

That's been reported for some weeks....

Vick Calls Fumble In Cowboys Game 'The Worst Thing I've Ever Done' | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/vick_calls_fumble_in)
Tom Coughlin Scores 2 Touchdowns In Season-Ending Speech To Giants Defense | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/tom_coughlin_scores_2)
Tom Brady: 'I'd Have Booed Us Too, But Patriots Fans Are Still Ungrateful Front-Running Shitheads' | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/tom_brady_id_have_booed_us)

I think RB was fine. Maroney will likely be gone and we'll probably pick someone up mid/late in the draft or in FA, but I thought Taylor/Morris/Faulk all looked good at times. WR you need a legitimate 2 more than a 3. Put Edelman in the slot, and even if he's playing great when Welker returns you can use them both in the 4 WR spread sets we like to use. Burgess actually was pretty well-rounded and complimented Mayo well, but adding a 3rd LB would be huge. Banta-Cain may have had 10 sacks, but just wasn't cutting it as an every down player.

Anyone saying Randy Moss is done or doesn't help the team isn't worth arguing with at this point.

I don't think Moss is done or doesn't help the team, but he's certainly getting older and as he gets older the risk of injuries keeping him out of the lineup grows. He's definitely still got stuff left in the tank and can be an asset to this team though.

Plan for the future.

I think RB was fine. Maroney will likely be gone and we'll probably pick someone up mid/late in the draft or in FA, but I thought Taylor/Morris/Faulk all looked good at times. WR you need a legitimate 2 more than a 3. Put Edelman in the slot, and even if he's playing great when Welker returns you can use them both in the 4 WR spread sets we like to use. Burgess actually was pretty well-rounded and complimented Mayo well, but adding a 3rd LB would be huge. Banta-Cain may have had 10 sacks, but just wasn't cutting it as an every down player.

Anyone saying Randy Moss is done or doesn't help the team isn't worth arguing with at this point.

Agree wholeheartedly with all these points. Just wanted to point out that both Brandon Tate and Tyrone McKenzie could conceivably help to fill these holes as well.

Agree wholeheartedly with all these points. Just wanted to point out that both Brandon Tate and Tyrone McKenzie could conceivably help to fill these holes as well.

Yeah. I was real high on them (particularly McKenzie) coming out of the draft. It was a huge bummer to me when he got injured - I hope he's able to make a complete recovery and come in next year and really have put a lot of work in to learn the playbook and such so that he'll be a solid player.

It's been overshadowed (and rightfully so) by the death of Gaines Adams, but the Bears hired Mike Tice as Offensive Line coach last Friday.

Yeah, too bad they didn't go after Nolan for DC. That would involve them abandoning the Tampa 2.

I'm not completely unsold on the idea that they just don't look to him in certain coverages, at all. In 2007 they were tossing it to him when he was doubled and sometimes triple covered and he was just pulling them down. That's how they put the crazy numbers up. About 3/4 through the season they just stopped.

I'm not saying they should go hog wild, but take a risk every once in awhile. Randy seems to make those plays, at least he did when they were trying.

Do we really think Welker is pulling in 100+ catches without Moss? Would be interesting to see.


Teams are probably started playing that 2 deep zone against the Patriots most of the time later in the 07 season like they did against him when he was a Viking that is why Welker is wide open so often. I think Moss does become very frustrated seeing that defense game in and game out because it eliminates the strongest part of his game. Its hard for any QB to force that ball when the safetys are playing 20 yards off the LOS even if it is Brady throwing to Moss.

I havent watched much of the Pats the past 2 years so this is purely speculation.

It should open up the run game much more than it has however.

Marinelli + Martz = SUPER SUCCESS!!

Do it! Come on, Chicago! DO IT!

Martz is a mad genius. Look at the kind of numbers Jon "Jesus" Kitna put up under Martz? Think of what Cutler could do in that system. Between Marinelli and his pad level and Tampa 2 and Martz's air attack... It would be unstoppable!

The dream's become reality!

Martz is the Bear's OC!

Chicago Bears hire Mike Martz as offensive coordinator - ESPN Chicago (http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/nfl/news/story?id=4877772)

The latest news from Bears beat reporter Jeff Dickerson. Blog (http://espn.go.com/chicago/columns/blog?name=dickerson)
<!-- END INLINE MODULE -->

Martz interviewed with the Bears on Friday then traveled to Nashville, Tenn., to speak with Bears quarterback Jay Cutler (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9597). Martz, working for the NFL Network, had criticized Cutler's comportment after the quarterback threw four interceptions in a season-opening loss at Green Bay.

The hiring ends a prolonged search that included an interview with Minnesota Vikings (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=min) quarterbacks coach Kevin Rogers. The Bears also were interested in former Denver Broncos (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=den) quarterbacks coach Jeremy Bates, who worked with Cutler in Denver, but Bates went to the Seattle Seahawks (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=sea) with Pete Carroll after serving a season on USC's staff.

The Bears also interviewed the Cincinnati Bengals' Ken Zampese and the San Diego Chargers' Rob Chudzinski.

Martz is a former St. Louis Rams (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=stl) head coach and offensive coordinator. The Rams won a Super Bowl with Martz as the offensive coordinator and lost a Super Bowl when he became head coach.

Martz hired Lovie Smith as the Rams defensive coordinator.

"Even though I've never worked with Mike Martz, I'm in favor of the Bears hiring anybody that can get us back on the right track, and hopefully back to a Super Bowl," Bears tight end Desmond Clark (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=1932) said. "Mike Martz has a great track record, and I'm excited to see how this offense could grow in 2010."

Chicago is now just one Brandon Marshall signing away from a Super Bowl run.

:D

Let's run down all the ways this is a disaster for the Bears:

1. His QB's get blasted a ton, and that's with okay OL's. Chicago does not have an okay OL.

2. He doesn't use his TE's. Chicago's best weapon is a TE.

3. His system takes at least two years to implement. He will be there one year.

4. You need to have smart WR's. I have no idea how smart the Bears WR's are because they are all young.

5. His system leads to a ton of INT's. Jay Cutler already throws a ton of INT's. This could be awesome.

The one positive here is it means Lovie and co. are for sure gone after this year so that is something.

Let's run down all the ways this is a disaster for the Bears:

1. His QB's get blasted a ton, and that's with okay OL's. Chicago does not have an okay OL.

2. He doesn't use his TE's. Chicago's best weapon is a TE.

3. His system takes at least two years to implement. He will be there one year.

4. You need to have smart WR's. I have no idea how smart the Bears WR's are because they are all young.

5. His system leads to a ton of INT's. Jay Cutler already throws a ton of INT's. This could be awesome.

The one positive here is it means Lovie and co. are for sure gone after this year so that is something.

6. He is notoriously difficult to get along. Jay Cutler is notoriously difficult to get along with. There will be friction.

cutler and him already not getting along - this is great.

bears WR's are dumb. devin hester is nobody's idea of a "smart & precise route-running WR" for example.

knox actually might do well in that type of system I guess? if cutler can get the ball to him instead of the other team.

for all those ragging on Randy Moss

Source: Patriots Randy Moss diagnosed with separated shoulder - ESPN Boston (http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=4877704)

Potentially may have happened on 10/11 (he showed up on the injury report with "shoulder" after that week's game against Denver).

Heh, just came here to post that.

So Martz comes in as a lame-duck OC for a lame-duck coach. Just don't get Jay killed, Mike. That's all I ask.

I don't know, I'm curious to see how Martz and the Chicago O get along. Could either result in entertaining news stories or a potent offense (with a WR or two coming in).

Jay could use a good killin'.

Teams are probably started playing that 2 deep zone against the Patriots most of the time later in the 07 season like they did against him when he was a Viking that is why Welker is wide open so often. I think Moss does become very frustrated seeing that defense game in and game out because it eliminates the strongest part of his game. Its hard for any QB to force that ball when the safetys are playing 20 yards off the LOS even if it is Brady throwing to Moss.

I havent watched much of the Pats the past 2 years so this is purely speculation.

It should open up the run game much more than it has however.Not really. Teams were playing 1 deep safety and rolling him to Moss' side. While it did open up underneath for Welker and Edelman, it also opened up the other side deep but they never had anyone who could go deep on the other side. They signed Galloway, but he was finished, they hoped Brandon Tate could be but he was injured most of the year, and they tried desperately to make Sam Aiken that guy, but aside from one or two highlight reel catches he proved he was a glorified Special Teams player.

For what it's worth, Football Outsiders also had the combined pass defenses the Pats faced this year as the toughest any team has faced since this decade, and Moss still ended up with 1200+ yards. So injury or not, I really don't get the desire for him to leave.

Other Pats news, Wilfork is getting really pissed about the thought of being Franchise Tagged. The timing of his statements are just annoying since the Pats coaches are on vacation for like 2 weeks and said they wouldn't be negotiating with anyone over that time. We'll see - I really don't think we can afford to lose Wilfork. Ron Brace didn't show much, and even if Pryor was a nice surprise, neither of them look to be the stud DT you need in a 3-4 to do anything against the run.

I figure with the way Wilfork has handled the situation so far he's earned the right to say whatever he wants.

Agree one hundred percent. He's been the good solider for six years. Pay the man.

yep. VW deserves to get paid.

And Moss is fine. I know earlier I was kind of "meh" on him, but that was before I looked at the ratings of the pass defenses they faced on Football Outsiders, and also considered that he was quite clearly not 100% physically this season.

My only point was that he is getting older (that's undeniable) and they need to start considering who's going to slide into that role once he's finished.

I'll be very surprised if Martz is a success next season in Chicago. On the assumption (based on what little I know) that his system relies on timing, complexity and intelligence, I think it's particularly ill-suited for the Bears' current personnel.

For a start, the O-Line is weak, and so the window for complex plays to develop will be very small.

Secondly, Cutler hasn't shown himself to be a terribly accurate or patient passer. I understand he had most of his success in Denver as a roll-out passer, and certainly when he was forced into that in Chicago last season he often looked good.

Thirdly, and most importantly, the Bears' receiving corps is long on physical ability and short on football precision. Greg Olsen and Devin Hester are the two best examples, using their physical abilities to compensate for the crappy routes they run.

So who knows? Everything could click, but I have a feeling this could be a 2-win season. Maybe they can go Empty Cupboard for 2011.

My only point was that he is getting older (that's undeniable) and they need to start considering who's going to slide into that role once he's finished.


Almost think you need to consider changing that role somewhat, how many people could fill it. Maybe 2 or 3?

Almost think you need to consider changing that role somewhat, how many people could fill it. Maybe 2 or 3?

+1.

Casey Hampton will likely get tagged as well. Dunno what Wilfork played for last year. But the tag for DTs is only around 6M. So either guy could make a good case for being pissed off.

Almost think you need to consider changing that role somewhat, how many people could fill it. Maybe 2 or 3?


i didn't necessarily mean "go find the next randy moss" - more along the lines of "go find a guy to play opposite welker who can burn opposing defenses if they don't cover him."

and the idea behind looking now (in the draft preferably) is that it gives you time to develop the guy

Wilfork was still on his 6 year rookie contract. I was shocked he played last year with only a very minor fuss.

Let's run down all the ways this is a disaster for the Bears:

1. His QB's get blasted a ton, and that's with okay OL's. Chicago does not have an okay OL.

2. He doesn't use his TE's. Chicago's best weapon is a TE.

3. His system takes at least two years to implement. He will be there one year.

4. You need to have smart WR's. I have no idea how smart the Bears WR's are because they are all young.

5. His system leads to a ton of INT's. Jay Cutler already throws a ton of INT's. This could be awesome.

The one positive here is it means Lovie and co. are for sure gone after this year so that is something.
Ugh. :(

Ugh. :(

For as much as pain in the ass Martz can be, the Lions did have their best offensive years under the guy. Kitna threw for over 4,000 yards, Roy Williams had over 1,000 yards receiveing. They didn't win a lot of games because of their incredibly bad defense, but at least they put up some points.

It will definitely be interesting.

What would make it more interesting would be if the Bears finally install Field Turf for the upcoming season. This a one year move for the Bears and thankfully we'll be looking for a new Coach and OC again next offseason.

Jesus, this thread is about the Pats in the same way that ALL the college sports threads are about Missouri and the Big 12.

So Uche Nwaneri tell us how you really feel about Tim Tebow:

Jaguars lineman unloads on Tebow
Posted by Mike Florio on February 3, 2010 10:50 PM ET
Plenty of people in Jacksonville would love to see quarterback Tim Tebow become one of the newest members of the Jaguars.

One of them isn't current Jaguars offensive lineman Uche Nwaneri, who has started 28 games over the past two seasons.

In a posting on the team's official message board (our pal Vito Stellino of the Florida Times-Union has confirmed through the team that Nwaneri wrote the item), the three-year veteran was candid in his assessment of the former Florida quarterback.

Here's Nwaneri's five-point breakdown:

"5. He cant throw. PERIOD.

"4. He cant read any coverage other than probably cover 2 or man cov. PERIOD (the only cov. in college lol).

"3. the QB wildcat WILL NOT WORK IN THIS LEAGUE. PERIOD.

"2. He doesnt know how to take a snap from center, nor is he even comfortable enough to.

"1. HE CANT THROW. and thats really something you either have or not, never seen a qb who couldnt ever throw, just all of a sudden be able to throw just because hes now in the NFL."

So there you have it. On the very site owned by the team owned by a man who has made clear his interest in acquiring Tebow's rights, one of the team's fairly important employees has offered a contrary opinion, in very strong terms.

I wonder if the Pats will take Tebow.

Why would the Jags take Tebow, anyway? They have a Pro Bowl quarterback.

Oh, and how come he only ended three of his five sentences with periods?

Why would the Jags take Tebow, anyway? They have a Pro Bowl quarterback.

Because they improved their record by 2 wins this year and yet lost 16k in attendance, dropping to 30th in the league ahead of only Detroit & Oakland?

I'm torn. On the one hand, drafting Tebow would likely hurt the Jaguars competitively because he has NFL bust written all over him. This would be good since I dislike that team. But drafting Tebow could possibly increase attendance, making it less likely that the team fucks off to L.A./Toronto/London/wherever leaving Miami as the closest AFC team to my county and increasing the amount of times per year I won't have to go to a bar or watch my team on the Internet instead of local TV. Hmm.

Why would the Jags take Tebow, anyway? They have a Pro Bowl quarterback.

Isn't being the 6th best QB in a 16 team conference approaching the "average" range? And is he really even the 6th best? If you threw all the AFC starting QBs into a hat and let teams draft them, he would not go in the top 6. The 3 original QBs, then Roethlesberger, then the two other "pro bowlers" then probably Carson Palmer and Joe Flacco. Now we get to where Garrard gets considered.

Dude was a "pro bowler" because he was willing to show up.

Isn't being the 6th best QB in a 16 team conference approaching the "average" range?

The lack of sarcasm tags claim another victim.

:D

The lack of sarcasm tags claim another victim.

:D

My thoughts exactly.

Oh, and how come he only ended three of his five sentences with periods?

Good question.

For point 2, I think Mr. Nwaneri is being fair and giving Tebow the benefit of the doubt that he can learn, at some point, to take a snap from center. So, there is some ambiguity there, thus no need for "PERIOD", which he appears to reserve only for very definitive statements.

As to point 1, of Mr. Nwaneri's essay, it's really just a further elaboration of point 5. Also, I believe the all caps "HE CANT THROW" would make "PERIOD" redundant.

I checked "Strunk and White" on that last point and they concur.

Tebow's just a project/filler pick, isn't he? He's not actually going to start at QB in the NFL. Someone will think he can be a "versatile" player that will play different positions, but that really never seems to work well.

Not very professional and not very smart, seeing as I'm pretty sure they are going to be teammates next year. Awkward.

But ultimately I can't disagree with anything he said. Tebow had a below average arm in college, never mind the NFL. He's never played under center and the one game he's played in a pro style offense he looked awful. He's not going to be great running the ball in a league where every linebacker and defensive end is faster, stronger and just as big as he is. He's got horrific bust written all over him IF you are drafting him to be a starting QB in this league. If you draft him to do a little bit of everything (QB, wildcat/option, maybe some TE/WR) and design a package based around him he might be useful but is that really worth the #13 pick?

The lack of sarcasm tags claim another victim.

:D

Yep. I thought that "David Garrard in the Pro Bowl" was enough of a joke that everyone would have known I was being sarcastic -- my bad!

Good question.

For point 2, I think Mr. Nwaneri is being fair and giving Tebow the benefit of the doubt that he can learn, at some point, to take a snap from center. So, there is some ambiguity there, thus no need for "PERIOD", which he appears to reserve only for very definitive statements.

As to point 1, of Mr. Nwaneri's essay, it's really just a further elaboration of point 5. Also, I believe the all caps "HE CANT THROW" would make "PERIOD" redundant.

I checked "Strunk and White" on that last point and they concur.

The problem is that if further elaboration on point 5 was required, it shouldn't have ended with a PERIOD, right? QUESTION MARK?

The problem is that if further elaboration on point 5 was required, it shouldn't have ended with a PERIOD, right? QUESTION MARK?

I think he was just becoming long winded and, for some reason, wanted 5 points instead of 4 and ended up repeating himself, PERIOD.

I have had enough of this Tebow bashing. PERIOD.

It's become a matter of just piling on now. Everyone is saying the same thing:

He can't throw. PERIOD.

Bad mechanics. PERIOD.

Can't read defenses. PERIOD.

Can't take a snap from under center. PERIOD.

Yes, we get it. We understand. None of this is new. It's been around for a while.

At this point, I want to see the guy succeed. While I doubt it would ever happen, I'd love to see Tebow become a successful NFL QB just to rub it in all the face of all of these jack-asses.

That horribly slow release is a bigger concern to me than his seemingly below average arm. He is going to be a sitting duck and the defensive backs will be getting a better break towards the ball than the WR with that release.

Put him at TE and lets see what he can do. If he tries to make it as a QB his NFL career will be a short one.

This from someone that likes Tebow and hopes he has some success as a pro.

At this point, I want to see the guy succeed. While I doubt it would ever happen, I'd love to see Tebow become a successful NFL QB just to rub it in all the face of all of these jack-asses.

I can't believe I sort of feel this way, too.

I think he was just becoming long winded and, for some reason, wanted 5 points instead of 4 and ended up repeating himself, PERIOD.



It's probably because he started with 5 points, COMMA, and counted down from there. PERIOD. Then when he couldn' APOSTROPHE t think of a fifth point and didn't want to re- HYPHEN number the whole thing, COMMA, he just repeated his first point.

PERIOD.

WHAT DO YOU CALL THAT THING THAT LOOKS LIKE A P WITH TWO LINES THAT MEANS THE END OF A PARAGRAPH? PUT ONE HERE PLEASE! exclamation point

At this point, I want to see the guy succeed. While I doubt it would ever happen, I'd love to see Tebow become a successful NFL QB just to rub it in all the face of all of these jack-asses.

I might, except he's going all Eric Crouch with his "I want to be a QB, period". If his attitude was "I want to be the best possible NFL player I can be", I'd be all for him, as I suspect he'll be a better Slash-type weapon than Kordell Stewart ever was. Running the wildcat (where he's a threat to both run and pass), splitting out wide as a TE or receiver, fitting the H-back role, being the backup QB for the team, ... I'd love to see him on the Patriots in that type of role. But if he maintains that "QB or bust!" approach, the attitude alone will get him in trouble in the NFL.

Someone desperate will give it a whirl though.

Pats fired their defensive coordinator, Dean Pees.

That's all well and good, but maybe they should replace the magic 8 ball calling their offensive plays.

Maybe it is semantics and depends on which source but I thought and read out here that Pees resigned from the Pats. In anycase, I did not thing his schemes were the problem but the retirements of a number of players plus Hobbs leaving back a year or so ago and particularly Seymour being dumped. Plus, the Pats did allow the 5th fewest points which most teams would love to have been able to say.

LT is pretty sure his time with the Chargers is done:

Tomlinson says he won't be back with Bolts - SignOnSanDiego.com (http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/feb/04/tomlinson-says-he-wont-be-back-with-bolts/)

Let me be the first person to predict he'll end up in New England. :D

GOOD LORD EVERYTHING IN HERE IS ABOUT THE PATRIOTS OR BEARS

WHERE MY TEXANS FANS AT

Actually, the Texans do need a running back....

Actually, the Texans do need a running back....
Domanick Davis or Domanick Williams or whatever the hell his name is can't be very busy right now. Maybe they can bring him back.

WHERE MY TEXANS FANS AT

Maybe this will bring some out of the woodwork:

http://bp0.blogger.com/_ZzSeX2ctOaA/Rnv1ZPh7WSI/AAAAAAAAAIk/7pBDX17Y09s/s400/texanscheer.jpg

Maybe this will bring some out of the woodwork:

http://bp0.blogger.com/_ZzSeX2ctOaA/Rnv1ZPh7WSI/AAAAAAAAAIk/7pBDX17Y09s/s400/texanscheer.jpg

I don't know about out, but it's brought me into the woodwork.

In the 2nd least shocking move of the offseason, Bears have named Rod Marinelli as DC.

BEARS AGAIN GRR

WHERE MY SEAHAWKS FAN AT

I think I talked myself into the Texans camp

BEARS AGAIN GRR

WHERE MY SEAHAWKS FAN AT

You rang?

What? It's still beats checking the net for news about the Edmonton Oilers :(

WHERE MY TEXANS FANS AT

I think they jumped on the Colts bandwagon.

If Tebow insist on playing QB and flames out, maybe he'll make an updated commercial with his mom?

He needs to go somewhere he won't have to play for 3 seasons if he's going to play QB. He is a day 2....er I guess day 3 now...pick.

Seahawks? with good ole Petey? Bwahahahahahaha

A look at the free agent QB list. Really not much to look at.

2010 Free Agency Primer: Quarterbacks -- NFL FanHouse (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/02/09/2010-free-agency-primer-quarterbacks/)

Vick admits to basically mailing in this season.

Michael Vick admits on Sports Radio he didn't... | Gather (http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978041636&grpId=3659174697259360&nav=Groupspace)
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The saber-rattling has begun. Smith was asked during Super Bowl week about the possibility of readying his union for a lockout in 2011. "On a scale of 1 to 10," Smith said. "it's a 14."


Oh, whew. I was worried it would be a 15. Or a 20. THEN it would be time to freak out.

Vick admits to basically mailing in this season.

Michael Vick admits on Sports Radio he didn't... | Gather (http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978041636&grpId=3659174697259360&nav=Groupspace)
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He does not admit to mailing in this season.

He admits to not giving 100% to preparing while in Atlanta due to some combination of relying on his natural talents and smoking pot.

A look at the free agent QB list. Really not much to look at.

2010 Free Agency Primer: Quarterbacks -- NFL FanHouse (http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2010/02/09/2010-free-agency-primer-quarterbacks/)

Vick admits to basically mailing in this season.

Michael Vick admits on Sports Radio he didn't... | Gather (http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action?articleId=281474978041636&grpId=3659174697259360&nav=Groupspace)
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That Vick story is where he talks about not doing all he could in Atlanta to grow as a QB. He doesn't admit mailing in this last year..

Edit: What Samdari said.

That Vick story is where he talks about not doing all he could in Atlanta to grow as a QB. He doesn't admit mailing in this last year..

Edit: What Samdari said.

still - makes him very dissapointing and not someone i'd want on my team

still - makes him very dissapointing and not someone i'd want on my team

I agree. I'm looking forward to when the Eagles cut ties with him.

I agree. I'm looking forward to when the Eagles cut ties with him.

I hope they trade him and at least get something in return.

What did they sign him to? Was it a 2-year deal?

Has Tebow said whether he would be willing to play a position other than QB? I think that he has real potential as an H-back type (assuming that he can catch) who would be a threat to throw a few HB-Option passes.

Oh, whew. I was worried it would be a 15. Or a 20. THEN it would be time to freak out.

Given the history of the NFL labor agreement not being even worked on until the last 6 hours before the deadline, I am also finding it hard to take all these "imminent lockout" reports seriously in February 2010, when the deadline is March 2011.

Has Tebow said whether he would be willing to play a position other than QB? I think that he has real potential as an H-back type (assuming that he can catch) who would be a threat to throw a few HB-Option passes.

Everything I've heard is that he wants a shot to be a QB, but if it doesn't work out he would try another position. I agree that it is worth giving him a shot in that H-back type of role.

God I hate Mike Brown.

Yesterday it was reported that the Bengals offered a contract to Matt Jones, are working out Adam Jones, have interest in Dante Stallworth and are working to get Charles Manson released on parole.

God I hate Mike Brown.

Yesterday it was reported that the Bengals offered a contract to Matt Jones, are working out Adam Jones, have interest in Dante Stallworth and are working to get Charles Manson released on parole.

They won the division, they have to screw it up next year somehow! :devil:

They won the division, they have to screw it up next year somehow! :devil:

With their schedule next year, they have almost no shot at winning the division.

Yeah, especially since they're playing the Patriots.

Yeah, especially since they're playing the Patriots.

They'll kill the Pats by at least 20. But everyone else is gonna be tough.

Giants cut Antonio Pierce (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/giants/2010/02/giants-cut-antonio-pierce.html)

God I hate Mike Brown.

Yesterday it was reported that the Bengals offered a contract to Matt Jones, are working out Adam Jones, have interest in Dante Stallworth and are working to get Charles Manson released on parole.
Actually I hear they are looking to sign Rae Carruth this weekend.

Dolphins released Joey Porter today.

I was reluctant to click on this thread cause I saw swaggs posted. I was afraid I would see "steelers". "franchised" and "Willie Colon" in the same sentence.

I think the Big Snack is going to get the Steelers' franchise tag.

I'm wondering how many restricted free agents we will see change hands this offseason.

Also, I gotta wonder if a team will make a decision to go after an established RFA that costs them a 1&3 vs gambling on a college kid and paying him top 10 money.

God I hate Mike Brown.

Yesterday it was reported that the Bengals offered a contract to Matt Jones, are working out Adam Jones, have interest in Dante Stallworth and are working to get Charles Manson released on parole.
If I recall, MJ only did drugs. I'm rooting for a 2nd chance for him.

I was reluctant to click on this thread cause I saw swaggs posted. I was afraid I would see "steelers". "franchised" and "Willie Colon" in the same sentence.

Rumor is Steelers are hoping for the uncapped year, just to keep Big Willie Styles as an RFA and avoid the bidding war that would have followed should he reach unrestricted status.

Ravens sign Donte Stallworth.

Seems like a good move for all parties. Ravens desperately need either a #1 or a #2 WR (depending on whether Mason retires). Stallworth should get tons of playing time if he earns it. And, if he pans out, he's a great deep threat weapon for Flacco.

And, if he does not pan out, then it isn't like the Ravens had to give up anything for him.

Yeah, nice to have two murderers on one team. Fitting that a group of ravens is called a murder (stolen from PFT and thought it was funny, I don't really care either way).

PING stevew


SI most recent issue has a small section of the top 5 players who, because of the uncapped year and conditions that come with it, lost out on UFA status and remain RFAs. #5 on that list...Willie Colon.

Then, looking at CBS Sportsline, Pete Prisco (who I don't really like his stuff to begin with) lists Colon as the #7 overall FA this year, a list including both UFA and RFA.

I pray to God that someone signs him to an offer sheet!

The Bears had an announcement saying that they're not going to go "hog wild" in free agency this year.

The Bears had an announcement saying that they're not going to go "hog wild" in free agency this year.

Do they ever?

The Bears had an announcement saying that they're not going to go "hog wild" in free agency this year.

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o395/Izulde08/hogwild.jpg

Going hog wild ain't a bad thing.

Just saying.

One hot chick in the entire bunch (top left). Was expecting better from you Izulde

One hot chick in the entire bunch (top left). Was expecting better from you Izulde

I know. I admit I was very lazy on this one and just grabbed the first thing that popped up in GIS.

I'll do better next time.

Not sure if this has been posted, but it made me LOL:

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/?go=forum_framed.posts&forum=2&thread=1584335&page=1&pc=4

Not sure if this has been posted, but it made me LOL:

http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/?go=forum_framed.posts&forum=2&thread=1584335&page=1&pc=4

:thumbsup:

One hot chick in the entire bunch (top left). Was expecting better from you Izulde

really of all them that's the one you picked out as hot? :confused:

personal taste i suppose

really of all them that's the one you picked out as hot? :confused:

personal taste i suppose

Yeah I'd have to see closeups, but at first glance it seems like anywhere from 33-66% of them can be considered hot.

They are all shaggable

"which girl are you getting"

"that one - and EVERY ONE ON THE BOTTOM ROW"

Chargers released LT.

Next time I'm at Hermann's I'll take a photo...

Wonder who will pick LT up.

N.O.

He'll have plenty of suitors, so long as he's OK with coming into a RB-by-committee situation and not being "the man."

"which girl are you getting"

"that one - and EVERY ONE ON THE BOTTOM ROW"

Pumpy likes Mitch Hedberg? Nice...

Wonder who will pick LT up.

He said the main thing now is winning a championship. So unless Snyder throws him an offer he can't refuse (you never know) I would bet (in order)

1. New England
2. New Orleans
3. Green Bay
4. Pittsburgh
5. Philly

He said the main thing now is winning a championship. So unless Snyder throws him an offer he can't refuse (you never know) I would bet (in order)

1. New England
2. New Orleans
3. Green Bay
4. Pittsburgh
5. Philly

I bet the Vikes. Chester Taylor is gonna walk so they have that opening.

lol. Not a snowball's chance in hell he goes to NE.

Pumpy likes Mitch Hedberg? Nice...
i have no idea what the smeg you're talking about

i have no idea what the smeg you're talking about

I think he meant Bernie Mac show reruns?

I think he meant Bernie Mac show reruns?
oh hell yes

and i watch the jeffersons every night too

It is pretty sad when one of the great runners of our generation is basically done. The simple fact that I'm thinking that I'd rather have Mewelde Moore over Tomlinson is telling.

Or a Pats fan would probably take Kevin Faulk right now. You know what you're getting out of a Faulk or a Moore. I'm unsure that tomlinson will be able to humble himself and take a secondary role.

Yeah, I had pretty much the same thought process in the case of the Steelers. LDT brings some star power and jersey sales, but realistically the Steelers sell out evey game and probably don't need the jersey sales. Moore knows the offense and his role, while LDT would obviously have to learn the offense and may not be satisfied as a 3rd down/change of pace guy. Sad to say, but I can't see a roster spot on the Steelers available for him.

Maybe somewhere like Arizona, if Edge retires? I keep trying to think of scenarios where he could return to the state of Texas, but I can't see it working out with the Cowboys or Texans.

Edge got cut last year and was on the Seahawks I think.

The Texans might be a place where he can get a chance. Slaton played like warm garbage all year.

So does San Diego go with Sproles full-time, or do they pick up a bigger back to help share the load?

Personally, I think that they should give Sproles a year to be The Man. He's shown the talent when he has been on the field. Now give him the chance to be the bell cow.