It was already mentioned in this thread, but is worth mentioning again. McNabb has to agree to sign an extension to make this trade work, and I think Washington was the only team he was willing to do that with. I don't blame him when the other options are Buffalo and Oakland.

You didn't quote the right part of my post where I said if this was the only deal they got. It might very well have been given McNabb's reported intention not sign the extension with the Bills or Raiders.

Unless you are the Patriots sending Bledsoe to the Bills, giggling to yourself while Bills fans jack off all over themselves in anticipation.

Was Bledsoe still near his peak ability when they made that trade? I can't remember. McNabb still is near his peak ability at this point in my opinion.

I can only imagine what the fury will be in Philly should the Redskins now beat the Eagles twice this season and/or beat them in a late in the year game (and you know there will be one scheduled for late in the season now) and knock them out of the playoffs. I don't really have a problem with trading McNabb-he's closer to the end of his career than the start and never won the Super Bowl despite his playoff appearances. But trading a still very good QB to a divisional rival that only increases that team's chances of doing better in the division now? Don't get it, unless it really was the only offer they got. I still trade him to Buffalo or Oakland even if the deal wasn't as good over Washington.

You don't honor a players years of service by trading him to where its a good fit for him first if it means trading him to a team you'll have to face at least twice during the season and potentially hurting your team in the process.

Either a) they still feel as if they are better than the Redskins, or b) they don't figure they would be better than the Cowboys/Giants WITH McNabb, in which case trading him to WAS doesn't matter.

a) is possible. I saw some comparisons of Campbell vs McNabb, and it was noted the Campbell was more accurate, but was awful throwing the deep ball, where McNabb would be better. That's fine, but I think part of Campbell's problem was that he had an offensive line that couldn't give him time, a set of WR that wasn't exactly stellar, and a band of idiots calling plays. The last has gotten better, but not so sure on the other two. Skins also have questions on defense, with a new scheme coming that doesn't suit all of the personnel (Haynesworth, A. Carter, Fletcher). And how good were McNabb's numbers on deep balls (major difference was YPA and TD, comp % was again similar) because of DeSean Jackson? The Eagles didn't trade HIM to WAS too, did they? Sure, WAS is probably better with McNabb. But remember, this was a 4-12 team.

b) sadly is also possible. The Eagles have some question marks with their own OL, are passing the torch at RB, and might have some defensive issues (LB, DB?) Would they have won the SB with McNabb? Probably not. No, he hasn't always had good WR, which they may have now. But they had a better defense and, well, a better McNabb. If you don't think you can win the SB, why not trade him now while you get value, especially if you have a QB you're itching to develop (ask BEL about that one - he'd have traded Wallman in FOFL a while ago if thought he couldn't win it).



And heck, even if he IS good, he still faces your other rivals (Giants/Cowboys) a couple of times a season. Maybe WAS steals a couple games vs them, too.

I would like to make the call that the Skins will now draft Tebow.

Was Bledsoe still near his peak ability when they made that trade? I can't remember. McNabb still is near his peak ability at this point in my opinion.

Bledsoe was four years younger than McNabb is now. It's hard to tell when Bledsoe's peak was though, because he was horrible for a couple of years on some really bad Patriots teams, and then put up maybe his best season with Buffalo in '02.

If you don't think you can win the SB, why not trade him now while you get value, especially if you have a QB you're itching to develop (ask BEL about that one - he'd have traded Wallman in FOFL a while ago if thought he couldn't win it).


I have this debate with a friend of mine all the time. IMHO, it is always better to keep a proven vet QB & try to win now. It's better because more fans show up to your games, TV ratings are better, quality free agents see your team as a winner they want to play for, and there is NO guarantee (and in fact...highly unlikely) of future success by expecting you will draft a new franchise QB.

Getting "something" for McNabb, without a proven replacement, is very risky if you intend to win this year. And if you have a bad season...it's rebuilding time as next year's starting vets w/ expiring contracts will head out as well. I don't think a year-in-year-out contender like Philly should be thinking of rebuilding after making the NFC championship 2 years ago, then (almost) winning the Division last season(at least they made the playoffs).

There are definitely times when just starting fresh can be the best option. But that is for teams that struggle to win 6 or 7 games with old vets. The Eagles were not that type of team with McNabb. IMO they are now without him.

All the experts are behind you on this. Everyone is now saying that the Redskins are no longer interested in drafting a QB in the 1st round.

Like Todd McShay, who was convinced that Andre Woodson and Brian Brohm were first rounders?

McShay/Mel Kiper aren't "experts". I bet if someone actually looked at their hit/miss rate over the past five years, they've missed on a lot more guys than hit.

If you look at the timing; hours after Clausen worked out in Washington the Redskins were on the phone overpaying for McNabb it looks like Washington has changed their minds a Clausen.

When the Broncos traded up to draft Jay Cutler, it caught a lot of people by surprise because Shanahan had not met or worked out with Cutler before the draft. A lot of what the "workouts" you see now are more dog and pony show than anything. Teams have their draft boards completed and nothing will be done in these manufactured workouts which changes coaches/scouts perception.

I still think drafting a QB, who could sit behind a veteran for a couple of years, in the 1st would be the smart move for the skins.

Pick will be Russell Okung, another OT or a trade down. Write it down now.

I agree. No way do you take a QB #4 overall in this day and age when you just traded for a quality QB that has 3 or 4 years left at least.


Agreed.

I have this debate with a friend of mine all the time. IMHO, it is always better to keep a proven vet QB & try to win now. It's better because more fans show up to your games, TV ratings are better, quality free agents see your team as a winner they want to play for, and there is NO guarantee (and in fact...highly unlikely) of future success by expecting you will draft a new franchise QB.

Getting "something" for McNabb, without a proven replacement, is very risky if you intend to win this year. And if you have a bad season...it's rebuilding time as next year's starting vets w/ expiring contracts will head out as well. I don't think a year-in-year-out contender like Philly should be thinking of rebuilding after making the NFC championship 2 years ago, then (almost) winning the Division last season(at least they made the playoffs).

There are definitely times when just starting fresh can be the best option. But that is for teams that struggle to win 6 or 7 games with old vets. The Eagles were not that type of team with McNabb. IMO they are now without him.

But in their minds they've already drafted the new franchise QB. Similar to Rodgers in Green Bay. They might not be right, but they've had Kolb for a bit of time now and haven't soured on him.

I don't think TV ratings are going to exactly dip in Philly any time soon, it would take a few years for that to happen (heck, for that look at the Skins - they've sucked for a decade and still make money hand-over-fist). I'm also not sure there are any really huge FA out there to be impressing.

A few things:

- Shanahan won his Super Bowls with a QB older than McNabb (Elway was 35, I believe, for the first win)

- I would be pretty shocked if the Skins went QB at 1.4. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see them trade down to try and recoup a 2nd rounder. There is a ton of OT talent in the draft and they can get one later in the first.

- This is much different than Gibbs bringing in the 8 car in exchange for a first day pick way back when. McNabb is still an all-pro calber QB. He is a massive upgrade over Jason Campbell. The move was a no-brainer.

- Shanahan is going to run this team for 4-5 seasons at most and then hand the reigns over to his kid. He wants to win now.

McNabb was never completely Reid's guy,

Interesting, considering that Reid made an unpopular pick and chose to build the franchise around him as essentially the first move he made as a HC.

Interesting, considering that Reid made an unpopular pick and chose to build the franchise around him as essentially the first move he made as a HC.

That was a long time ago

I disagree. I think Reid had a genuine bond with McNabb and that the upper powers that be were the ones who pushed for Kolb last year and this year.

There's no way Reid wanted to make this move. The personal risk on him with McNabb/Kolb vs. Kolb/Vick are immense. If McNabb struggles (or the team struggles), he can simply play Kolb and gain another 2 seasons as coach. Now, if Kolb struggles, he may be out of a Job in December.

I'm certain that McCarthy wanted no part of Rodgers over Favre in the first year Favre retired and played for the Jets. But, the GM had to make a long term decision on what was best for the franchise and went with Aaron. But, Mike would have gladly started Favre had that been an option because he wanted to win. Now, he's probably glad they went with Rodgers as he has a better chance to win for the next 2-3 years. But, at the time, the HC wants to win - not to help the HC in 3 years win.

This is much different than Gibbs bringing in the 8 car in exchange for a first day pick way back when. McNabb is still an all-pro calber QB. He is a massive upgrade over Jason Campbell. The move was a no-brainer.

- Shanahan is going to run this team for 4-5 seasons at most and then hand the reigns over to his kid. He wants to win now.

It is not as different as you think. Brunell was the same age when he came to DC -- 33 going on 34. And, at the time of their respective trades, their QB ratings were virtually identical, with both in the mid-80s. Brunell had gone to 3 Pro Bowls, McNabb has been to what, 5? I'll concede that McNabb is probably the better QB, but neither is a HOFer. And Brunell now has 1 more SB ring.

Brunell's line for his only full year as Washington's starting QB (2005): 262/454, 57.7%, 3050 yds, 23TD, 10 INT, 85.9 rtg. McNabb has better yardages for the last 2 season and hit 60% completions. The other numbers are pretty similar.

Assuming McNabb's high end is going to be similar to his recent performances, Washington just got the second coming of Mark Brunell. Given that the o line in DC is abyssmal, I think I'm giving McNabb the benefit of the doubt here.

Ultimately, my point is that you don't bring in McNabb or Brunell if the owner and coach didn't believe that the team was going to win the Super Bowl in the next 3 years because neither QB has/had much more than that left. That just seems absurd to me. The Redskins are awful and deserved their 4-12 record last season. Maybe a coach other than Zorn gets them to 6-10, but the problem wasn't coaching anywhere near as much as it was a lack of talent. And they are further handicapped by the awful contracts left by Vinnie. (See Haynesworth, Albert).

They need a 2nd this year and what will probably be a 3rd next year more than they need 2-3 years of McNabb, because the Washington Football Team isn't going to the Super Bowl with the players they have now.

See the new Washington, same as the old Washington.

I've always thought judging QB's by their Super Bowl Rings was pretty ridiculous, but never more ridiculous than when the guy won it while sitting his ass on the bench.

I disagree. I think Reid had a genuine bond with McNabb and that the upper powers that be were the ones who pushed for Kolb last year and this year.

Looking at all the Iggles' offseason moves, including trading Sheldon Brown this weekend and cutting Westbrook and others, it seems clear that the team determined that they couldn't win with what they had and needed to start over. Given that, it makes far more sense to play Kolb and see what he has than to keep trotting McNabb out there. I think Reid signed off on it from a pragmatic standpoint. And I think that the organization agreeing to send him somewhere that he preferred, even if they got less out of it, showed respect.

I've always thought judging QB's by their Super Bowl Rings was pretty ridiculous, but never more ridiculous than when the guy won it while sitting his ass on the bench.

dola

I agree with the latter point. I threw it in to be capricious. The Pro Bowls and stats points stand. They are pretty similar QBs.

Lions trade a 5th round pick to Seattle for LG Rob Sims. Love the deal. Guy isn't amazing but he's solid and will for sure be our best LG in a long time.

I think it's a great value trade for the Lions. I understand why the Seahawks did it but am still disappointed as the guy seems to have a lot of potential, especially as a mauler (which they don't value as highly with the ZBS they're installing).

Kind of scary how many recent Seahawks are on that roster now. I'm really curious to see how Burleson does opposite Johnson. That could be a really fun duo to watch.

Interesting, considering that Reid made an unpopular pick and chose to build the franchise around him as essentially the first move he made as a HC.

That was a long time ago

I disagree. I think Reid had a genuine bond with McNabb and that the upper powers that be were the ones who pushed for Kolb last year and this year.

Reid took McNabb when he was a rookie head coach. I think as Andy gained more of an idea of what he wanted to do with playcalling, it became clear that he had to fit his system around McNabb moreso than getting a quarterback to fit his system.

Watching games over the past few years, I think McNabb is a guy who just plays better when relying on his natural instincts...that doesn't play well in the kind of system Andy wants to run. No secret Andy likes to pass a lot, but to make it work, he needs a guy who will consistently and accurately complete those short and intermediate throws.

McNabb always struggled with that. But, for every clearly open guy he overthrew, he would make up for that by escaping three potential sacks and throwing a beautiful deep ball down the field. Yet, as great as that is/was, it's not what Andy wants.

I think it all became clear the year Jeff Garcia took over for an injured McNabb. Even in the Super Bowl year, I never saw quarterback-coach with the Eagles more in sync than in the late part of that regular season. It's no secret that Andy ran the ball more that year, but I think one of the reasons he ran more was because the pass was working as he intended it and he felt comfortable with the gains he was getting running the ball.

Again, I throw the parallel out there with Mike McCarthy-Brett Favre-Aaron Rodgers. By all accounts, Favre should have been the perfect guy for McCarthy. Mike Holmgren was able to coach Favre so there was experience in a system similar to McCarthy's. However, the freelancing was not what McCarthy liked, and he had a talented system QB on the roster with Rodgers.

So, to make a long story short, I think there is and was a bond between McNabb and Reid but it just could not get past that Donovan is not the right guy for what Andy wants to do. Kolb is that, and Kolb and Andy will both succeed or fail together.

Lions trade a 5th round pick to Seattle for LG Rob Sims. Love the deal. Guy isn't amazing but he's solid and will for sure be our best LG in a long time.

I like the deal. LG has been horrible for a few years now. No guarantee that Sims will be the answer, but they had to do something and he's likely a better option than anyone they would have drafted in the 5th round.

Given this move and the likelihood that they wont be able to trade down, it's looking more like the Lions will either go with Suh or McCoy at #2. I am fine with that.

Depending on who is available in the second round, I could see Mayhew trading dow to get some more picks. The most glaring needs at that spout would appear to CB/RB/DE at the moment.

But in their minds they've already drafted the new franchise QB. Similar to Rodgers in Green Bay. They might not be right, but they've had Kolb for a bit of time now and haven't soured on him.

I don't think TV ratings are going to exactly dip in Philly any time soon, it would take a few years for that to happen (heck, for that look at the Skins - they've sucked for a decade and still make money hand-over-fist). I'm also not sure there are any really huge FA out there to be impressing.

Oh, I know thats what they are going to publicly state...but I just dont see how they could truly believe that. Iregardless of playcalling, style, schemes, etc...football is football and McNabb is a better pro football QB than Kolb.

TV ratings more in the sense of getting Monday/Sunday night football games and the like. General team exposure and fan support is more what I'm talking about. If you have the same opinion of the Eagles playoff hopes that I have (which is certainly debatable)...I dont think you can expect much in the way of that for a few seasons. Of course...they wont go broke or anything, just not as much exposure as they'd have otherwise.

I've always thought judging QB's by their Super Bowl Rings was pretty ridiculous, but never more ridiculous than when the guy won it while sitting his ass on the bench.
Is this about my comment on Chase Daniel?

I think Chase made the right decision to go to the Saints and be on their active roster as the #3 QB, rather than stay with Washington and be put on their inactive practice squad last year. With Brunnel retired Chase Daniel is now the Saints backup, on paper at least.

And yes, he does now have a Super Bowl ring because of his decision to sign with the Saints.

rams released bulger. i got twenty says he's in buffalo by friday.

Lions trade a 5th round pick to Seattle for LG Rob Sims. Love the deal. Guy isn't amazing but he's solid and will for sure be our best LG in a long time.

The guy isn't even solid. Seattle desperately needs good offensive linemen. If they don't want him, that should be telling you something.

The guy isn't even solid. Seattle desperately needs good offensive linemen. If they don't want him, that should be telling you something.

I think it's a great value trade for the Lions. I understand why the Seahawks did it but am still disappointed as the guy seems to have a lot of potential, especially as a mauler (which they don't value as highly with the ZBS they're installing).

Or perhaps the fact that they are changing their blocking scheme should be telling you something.

That said, until he comes here and actually plays well, I have no reason to think he'll be anything. It's very rare, even under the Mayhew regime, for the Lions to trade for a player or sign a free agent who comes in and actually performs at a decent level.

rams released bulger. i got twenty says he's in buffalo by friday.

I kind of hope he waits around to see what happens with Roethlisberger.

rams released bulger. i got twenty says he's in buffalo by friday.
Nah, Arizona. Wouldn't the natural progression for the Cardinals to be going from St. Louis to Arizona? Team, Warner (eventually) and now Bulger?

Nah, Arizona. Wouldn't the natural progression for the Cardinals to be going from St. Louis to Arizona? Team, Warner (eventually) and now Bulger?

Too bad they already signed Derek Anderson....

Or perhaps the fact that they are changing their blocking scheme should be telling you something.

A fair point, but Sims didn't play particularly well (when he wasn't hurt) under Holmgren either before Mora started to add some zone blocking. In fact, he got so far into Holmgren's doghouse that the Hawks overpaid for Mike Wahle to play LG because they had so little confidence in Sims at that spot. Regardless, taking a flyer with a 5th rounder is hardly the end of the world. I'll take the pick, you take Sims, and we'll both go away thinking we robbed the other guy.

I'll take the pick, you take Sims, and we'll both go away thinking we robbed the other guy.

I don't consider this "robbery" for either team. In fact, I'd be surprised if either Sims or whoever the Seahawks take with that pick pan out to much of anything for their respective team. If anything, it's a bit of a toss up. Given the Lions' draft history, if Sims even starts just half the games this year and that's it, that's likely more than they would have ever gotten out of that pick.

Still, you don't tend to get too many quality players for low picks. That's why I am not overly thrilled (though I'm not down on it either) about the Chris Houston trade or this trade. If it works, great. If not, a small price to pay.

Too bad they already signed Derek Anderson....
And? They also already have Matt Leinart, too. So, they have two backups to replace Kurt Warner. Why not add a third?

I'm home sick today and I think I'm going to torture myself and watch the McNabb-Washington press conference at 11 AM (12 Eastern.)

I kind of hope he waits around to see what happens with Roethlisberger.

You already have one quarterback made of glass (Batch)...no need for another.

I'm home sick today and I think I'm going to torture myself and watch the McNabb-Washington press conference at 11 AM (12 Eastern.)

I was in DC yesterday for the Phillies/Nats game and the reactions from both fan bases were mixed on McNabb.

I was in DC yesterday for the Phillies/Nats game and the reactions from both fan bases were mixed on McNabb.
Were you doing an exit poll at Nationals Stadium? :)

Were you doing an exit poll at Nationals Stadium? :)

I had a 45 minute ride on the metro each way and that was pretty much the topic of conversation both ways. Same with where i was sitting in the stadium.

Smart ass :)

:D

what's on your mind brian baldinger?

The Eagles should be ecstatic. I view McNabb as a flawed player, and it was never more apparent than in the back-to-back losses to the Cowboys last season. His flaws will never go away. Now, the Eagles get at least two chances to expose the same flaws they've been covering up for 11 years. It works against the Redskins that McNabb is still in the division. Andy Reid can finally stop covering up for one of the most overrated quarterbacks in the history of the game. The Eagles will go to the playoffs. The Redskins will be watching from the golf course.

look, i get it. you see the influx of skirts on your channel and you wanna build a little heat for yourself by saying something polarizing. good for you.

you and that mannequin they claim is charlie casserly are truly invaluable to the nfl network.

rams released bulger. i got twenty says he's in buffalo by friday.

It's amazing to me that the Rams basically just spent what, 8 years after getting rid of Warner trying to convince themselves that Bulger was going to be their franchise.

And of course maybe he could have been had they invested in an offensive line. :D

Like Todd McShay, who was convinced that Andre Woodson and Brian Brohm were first rounders?

McShay/Mel Kiper aren't "experts". I bet if someone actually looked at their hit/miss rate over the past five years, they've missed on a lot more guys than hit.



When the Broncos traded up to draft Jay Cutler, it caught a lot of people by surprise because Shanahan had not met or worked out with Cutler before the draft. A lot of what the "workouts" you see now are more dog and pony show than anything. Teams have their draft boards completed and nothing will be done in these manufactured workouts which changes coaches/scouts perception.



Pick will be Russell Okung, another OT or a trade down. Write it down now.

Actually, Alfred Williams, the retired former two time SB mlb here on Denver radio says it will be Trent Williams, the LT out of Oklahoma St. not Okung taken by the Skins since Okung is great except he is not a kneebender and is totally susceptible to the bullrush at htis point in his career.

I thought McNabb was very classy today (as usual), particularly when asked about Kolb among other things.

Man, if I was the owner of a team that was on the cusp of finally breaking through and going deep in the playoffs, I'd take McNabb in a heartbeat.

Brett Favre is a grandpa...officially now.

I thought McNabb was very classy today (as usual), particularly when asked about Kolb among other things.

I'm sorry for you guys that McNabb couldn't stay an Eagle. Y'all having to watch him play for the Skins would be like me if the Saints had traded Deuce to the Panthers for the last few years of his career.

Football is a business, and we all know that, but it is tough for fans whenever a face-of-the-franchise player goes to a rival team.

Hell, I've had players in FOF that I kept around longer than I should for sentimental reasons. And those aren't even real people.

Saints signed Bears DE Alex Brown to a 2 year 6 million dollar deal.

I personally love the move- he comes in and replaces Charles Grant, and I think he is instantly a better player. He will be in a rotation with Bobby McCray / Anthony Hargrove so he should do solid.

rams released bulger. i got twenty says he's in buffalo by friday.

God I hope not

Reid took McNabb when he was a rookie head coach. I think as Andy gained more of an idea of what he wanted to do with playcalling, it became clear that he had to fit his system around McNabb moreso than getting a quarterback to fit his system.

Watching games over the past few years, I think McNabb is a guy who just plays better when relying on his natural instincts...that doesn't play well in the kind of system Andy wants to run. No secret Andy likes to pass a lot, but to make it work, he needs a guy who will consistently and accurately complete those short and intermediate throws.

McNabb always struggled with that. But, for every clearly open guy he overthrew, he would make up for that by escaping three potential sacks and throwing a beautiful deep ball down the field. Yet, as great as that is/was, it's not what Andy wants.

The more I think about it, the more this makes sense. I wonder if there were certain situations specifically where the Eagles looked at numbers and noticed that McNabb was either slipping or just not as good comparatively anymore. Overall his pct was 60.3, which was only good for 20th.

What situations might they look for? 3rd & Med? Wasn't all that good, just 50.9% (cherry picking, but E. Manning was 65.9). McNabb *was* very good on 3rd & Long - 60.4%. Break that down though and it's 48% for 3rd & 8-10, 68.8 for 3rd & 11+. Realistically, how can you expect that last number to stay that high? When else? 2nd and long? 2nd and medium (Eli actually stunk in those...unless it was 11+. McNabb was a little better, but not great - much better on 1st downs). How many of these situations came out positive in the past because of McNabb's legs - which he increasingly won't be able to rely on? There has to be some metric that the Eagles' brass looked at and concluded McNabb was slipping.

The Eagles' offense was great at times, but just wasn't consistent enough. You can't live off of bombs and conversions on 3rd and 10+, because they won't always be there (and you'll have games like Oakland).

The more I think about it, the more this makes sense. I wonder if there were certain situations specifically where the Eagles looked at numbers and noticed that McNabb was either slipping or just not as good comparatively anymore. Overall his pct was 60.3, which was only good for 20th.

What situations might they look for? 3rd & Med? Wasn't all that good, just 50.9% (cherry picking, but E. Manning was 65.9). McNabb *was* very good on 3rd & Long - 60.4%. Break that down though and it's 48% for 3rd & 8-10, 68.8 for 3rd & 11+. Realistically, how can you expect that last number to stay that high? When else? 2nd and long? 2nd and medium (Eli actually stunk in those...unless it was 11+. McNabb was a little better, but not great - much better on 1st downs). How many of these situations came out positive in the past because of McNabb's legs - which he increasingly won't be able to rely on? There has to be some metric that the Eagles' brass looked at and concluded McNabb was slipping.

The Eagles' offense was great at times, but just wasn't consistent enough. You can't live off of bombs and conversions on 3rd and 10+, because they won't always be there (and you'll have games like Oakland).

Yup. I've always felt a closer look at the stats would bear this out.

I think that Reid might actually run the ball a bit more than he gets credit for, but his overall run/pass split is skewed because of 2nd/3rd-and-long situations.

The more and more I think about it, the more I like this trade for the Eagles. I like Kolb a lot and think he could be the real deal (at least for this offense).

EDIT: Also, along with stats, it could just be that McNabb's injury history was becoming too risky. I think it's almost fair to label Donovan as injury-prone at this point in his career.

I wouldn't rule out Campbell, or Bulger being in Minnesota. Even if Favre comes back for another year, he's a coin flip to return every year. If Favre does retire, it's not like Minnesota has a whole in the backup department.

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From PFT:

What a strange weekend it has been for Santonio Holmes.

Yesterday, we reported that Holmes is facing a four-game suspension under the substance abuse policy. Tonight, we're told that the Steelers have traded Holmes to the New York Jets.

More to come.

what?

Apparently it was just for a 5th round pick. Or so I read on another site per a Steelers fan.

So obviously he knows.

I'm hearing a 5th!!!! round pick? are you shitting me.

Jets have such a huge potential WR core. Braylon, Santonio and Cotchery with Keller at TE is nasty.

Also with Braylon and Santonio they have some mega headcases.

Love it for a 5th. Woo!

that's grand theft

Apparently it is a 2011 5th too.

WTF...

I just saw the thing about Holmes going to the Jets on ESPN. The report is that it is for a 5th rounder in this season's draft. I know he has been a gigantic douchebag this offseason and is facing suspension, but for a 5th rounder, I think I'd rather just keep him around and let him play out the final year of his contract. Or, see if we could get a 3rd or 4th in next season's draft, since we already have 10 picks (including 3 5ths already!).

I'm not surprised that the Steelers and Homes parted ways -- I think he earned his trip out of town and the signing of Antwaan Randle El and Arnaz Battle, to go with Ward, Wallace, and probably Sweed, makes much better sense now. I am just surprised that it was so quick and this is all the better we could get (although maybe I shouldn't be).

Fucking shit, I haven't smoked in like 2 weeks and I really need some nicotine now.

Chances are he's suspended for four games though. I guess cut the fat now, whatever.

there's gotta be a conditional something in there...

Yeah it is a 2010 5th. Report I read was a typo they just corrected.

Regardless, wow.

I certainly hope that shit is conditional.

I heard a 5th in the upcoming draft.

I'd almost rather it be in the 2011 draft, so that is a little better, but still. I'm pretty shocked by this. I still think we should have let him play the season out and we probably get a better comp pick after he signs elsewhere as a FA next season.

This feels like something other teams do... not the Steelers.

The Jets are doing a damn good job of collecting bastard makers this offseason.

Hopefully, this doesn't make us draft a crappy receiver, that takes two seasons to become useful, in the first round now. I'm having a bad Golden Tate vision now.

Hopefully, this doesn't make us draft a crappy receiver, that takes two seasons to become useful, in the first round now. I'm having a bad Golden Tate vision now.

Tate has a high idiot factor himself.

I think if they went WR they'd be better off with Demaryius Thomas. Big kid, does it all, good attitude.

Hmmm...

Looking at ESPN's draft order, it appears that the Jets have already dealt their 5th to the Browns (probably in the Edwards' deal?).

2010 NFL Draft Results and Analysis: Round 5 - ESPN (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/rounds?round=5&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fdraft%2frounds%3fround%3d5)

Hopefully this rumor is BS. Otherwise, I'd guess it is a 2011 pick.

Woot! for trading a recent #1 pick, former Super Bowl MVP, and solid #2 receiver for a future 5th!

limas sweed ftw!

Hmmm...

Looking at ESPN's draft order, it appears that the Jets have already dealt their 5th to the Browns (probably in the Edwards' deal?).

2010 NFL Draft Results and Analysis: Round 5 - ESPN (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/rounds?round=5&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fnfl%2fdraft%2frounds%3fround%3d5)

Hopefully this rumor is BS. Otherwise, I'd guess it is a 2011 pick.

Woot! for trading a recent #1 pick, former Super Bowl MVP, and solid #2 receiver for a future 5th!

Clayton confirmed it. Seems pretty legit.

Tate has a high idiot factor himself.

I think if they went WR they'd be better off with Demaryius Thomas. Big kid, does it all, good attitude.

I wouldn't mind Benn (aka "Regents" Benn according to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette earlier this week :) ), but more in the 35-45 range. There is not a receiver worth taking at #18 for the Steelers (not that Thomas or Bryant wouldn't be worthy, but not w/ the Steelers' holes on both lines and d-back), in my opinion.

Rooney's laid down the law here, no other way around it. Holmes fucked up enough on his own but his QB didn't help him. He just picked the wrong time to fuck up even more, and now the team pays for it.

I wouldn't mind Benn (aka "Regents" Benn according to the Pittsburgh Post Gazette earlier this week :) ), but more in the 35-45 range. There is not a receiver worth taking at #18 for the Steelers (not that Thomas or Bryant wouldn't be worthy, but not w/ the Steelers' holes on both lines and d-back), in my opinion.

Agreed. Steelers have a ton of holes, but WR is another big hole they have now. I like Wallace, but have no faith in Sweed. Ward is still damn solid but getting long in the tooth and Randle-El is an okay three. They have a lot they need to fix.

I almost feel like trading back from 18 is their best play at this point if they can.

A lot of holes? We aren't the fucking lions here. Basically the secondary was the problem last year. If Troy stays healthy we'd have won 10-12 games last year.

ESPN doesn't have it, but wikipedia seems to indicate that the Jets own Philly's fifth rounder from the Lito Sheppard deal.

A lot of holes? We aren't the fucking lions here. Basically the secondary was the problem last year. If Troy stays healthy we'd have won 10-12 games last year.

For a team that won a SB two years ago they do.

They need secondary help, WR help and OL help right away. They have a bunch of older players and guys like Polamalu who are becoming close to earning the injury prone tag.

They are getting further away from a SB then closer to it.

Oh come on!! He's coming off probably his best regular season, coming into his own, and despite some minor douche-baggery I've come to like him. A 5th is bullshit.

A lot of holes? We aren't the fucking lions here. Basically the secondary was the problem last year. If Troy stays healthy we'd have won 10-12 games last year.

If we hadn't allowed a half dozen kick and punt return TDs, we'd have won 11 or 12 last season. But, we still have a lot of weak areas on the offensive line and defensive backfield and a ton of age on the defensive line. Now, if Ward finally decides to act his age, instead of an emerging #1 receiver in Holmes, we have a pair of #3s in Wallace and Randle El. Hopefully Sweed "gets it" this season (if he makes the team).

Fuck. A fifth rounder?

May as well go ahead and trade the asshole QB who rapes people while we're at it.

May as well go ahead and trade the asshole QB who rapes people while we're at it.

I'd like to see this.

May as well go ahead and trade the asshole QB who rapes people while we're at it.

:popcorn:

I understood the Steelers were going to handle disciplining Roethlisberger for his escapades internally and without a suspension, but this is a little odd.

FYI
Profootballtalk.com passes along "flying" rumors that unsigned restricted free agent Leon Washington is part of the trade that sent Santonio Holmes to the Jets on Sunday night.

See, if we're getting Leon(who I love) then I'm cool with it I guess. But who knows.

Peter King says Leon not involved. Holmes for a 5.

Rooney's laid down the law here, no other way around it. Holmes fucked up enough on his own but his QB didn't help him. He just picked the wrong time to fuck up even more, and now the team pays for it.

I keep hearing this opinion that the Steelers were punishing Holmes by shipping him out. This makes absolutely no sense. He's going to get a huge contract extension from the Jets. Some punishment.

Sounds like the Steelers were going to release Holmes if they didn't get a trade offer for him. I guess I respect them taking the high (although inconsistent) road and cutting a player that is embarassing the franchise, but at the same time, I don't like that they essentially gave a relatively valuable asset away at his low point.

I would have rather let him play out his contract and gotten the comp pick (which would have likely been higher than a late 5th). Oh well -- maybe they can use his salary spot to bring in someone decent at a different position.

Chicago needs a receiver and doesn't like to keep their draft picks...why didn't the Bears make this trade?

Wow. I hate to say it but this along with the other moves already puts the Jets as the favorites in the AFC east and probably the AFC altogether.

They couldn't have called some other teams and gotten at least a 3rd? I mean hell for as a big of a fuck up as he can be he's a pretty good WR. He'd have made a lot of teams better.

Good for the Jets though, I mean a lot of 5th round picks don't even make the team so you get 12 games out of a guy then let him walk- thats worth a 5th. If you sign him long term better.

The Jets will be lucky to finish above .500 next year.

I think this Jets team will be interesting...you're throwing together a lot of talent (some former, in the case of LT) and going to learn on the fly if they will work as a cohesive unit. But as a fallback you have an excellent defense and possibly the best OL in the league.

BTW, no doubt in my mind that these kinds of moves (in addition to signing up for Hard Knocks) has everything to do with generating buzz. The Jets are getting MURDERED in their efforts to sell PSLs and tickets in the new stadium.

The other rumor according to King is that Holmes will be suspended for the first four games of the season thanks to the League's Drug Policy.

It's not a rumor, PFT has been reporting it all weekend and it has been confirmed.

The Jets will be lucky to finish above .500 next year.

Yeah ok:)

cromartie, holmes, edwards, pouty mcpoutface (lt), coach yeehaw, ny tabloids...


tic, tic, tic-

hahaha

cromartie, holmes, edwards, pouty mcpoutface (lt), coach yeehaw, ny tabloids...


tic, tic, tic-

so true.

NTO easily best addition to FOFC in a while.

NTO easily best addition to FOFC in a while.

Certainly the best username.

it's true. i'm awesome.

you know who's not getting enough heat in the draft? jarret brown.

check out the rollout laser vs. auburn @ 1:26. es muis caliente.

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Does anyone know what the rules are on multiple offense game suspensions? If Holmes gets another suspension for his current Orlando court case, say another 4 games, will he be able to serve it consecutively or concurrently? Will it be 8 games or 4 games, if he gets another 4 game suspension in an unrelated incident?


And, any idea on what happened to the Minnesots Williams boys drug suspension case? I know last year the NFL was blocked from suspending them for their positive drug tests as the courts try to decide if the NFL can legally make the Williams Boys take random drug tests under Minnesota State law. In a lot of states these random drug tests are illegal and your employer must show just cause for having you tested.

Does anyone know what the rules are on multiple offense game suspensions? If Holmes gets another suspension for his current Orlando court case, say another 4 games, will he be able to serve it consecutively or concurrently? Will it be 8 games or 4 games, if he gets another 4 game suspension in an unrelated incident?


And, any idea on what happened to the Minnesots Williams boys drug suspension case? I know last year the NFL was blocked from suspending them for their positive drug tests as the courts try to decide if the NFL can legally make the Williams Boys take random drug tests under Minnesota State law. In a lot of states these random drug tests are illegal and your employer must show just cause for having you tested.


I think the commish gets to make the call on the suspension.

Nothing has happened as of yet for the Minnesota Williams'- basically the Saints 2 DEs were not forced to be suspended either because they couldn't suspend the 2 DTs from Minn. So nothing yet, but it's still a possibility.

I also wonder what Holmes being traded for a 5th round draft pick does to Brandon Marshall's stock?

Can the Broncos still demand a 1st round pick for the same type of player?


Also, I did like Jim Rome's take, that teams should immediately start calling the Pittsburgh Steelers and offer their 4th round pick for Ben Roethlisberger.

it's true. i'm awesome.

you know who's not getting enough heat in the draft? jarret brown.

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I like JB and have always appreciated the fact that he stayed in Morgantown waiting his turn behind Pat White, but 4th-5th round is where he's being projected and that's about right. For every amazing throw the guy makes he has an equally boneheaded play in the same game.

If he can get his head straight he has all the tools to be a very good QB in the NFL. Physical tools alone are probably late 1st-2nd round worthy. His accuracy on the deep ball is very good, strong arm, overall accuracy is above average, and he's very mobile. By all accounts he's a great kid and as a WVU fan I wish him the best.

yeah, to be fair i've only seen him @ the senior bowl and on youtube. i should of prefaced it with 'hey wvu fans what do you think of ...'

he lit up the combine. best numbers across the board if i remember right.

i just think it's a lousy year for qb's. if you're gonna gamble on someone might as well go with the best athlete.

I'm also a big fan of Brown and appreciate the patience he displayed while backing up Pat White. I agree with Atocep about his physical tools -- he is a freakish athlete with a cannon arm, but his judgement is, at best, unproven (due to the limited amount of career starts that he had) and, at worst, just plain bad. He seems to do well on the first couple of drives in each game, which makes me wonder if he "masters" the scripted plays, that they repeatedly run during the week in practice, but struggles to grasp the overall game plan and/or play book.

I think he'd be a good pick for a team that has a firmly entrenched coaching staff (that will be in place for at least 3-5 more seasons) that has an established offense and starting quarterback. If he could get on a team that didn't significantly change the playbook from year to year and had some time to develop, he could become a good starter in 3-4 years.

Of course, you could probably say the same about a number of other young QBs. :)

I do think Brown could be a pretty awesome H-back or receiving TE. He is a huge guy with a lot of speed. The season that he played basketball, he looked like a giant (weight-wise) compared to all the other basketball players.

Rutgers is doing a pretty good job putting defensive players in the NFL. In a couple years maybe there will be a bunch on one team, and then Jarrett Brown can just bounce around the NFL playing against that squad weekly. All-Pro.

yeah, to be fair i've only seen him @ the senior bowl and on youtube. i should of prefaced it with 'hey wvu fans what do you think of ...'

he lit up the combine. best numbers across the board if i remember right.

i just think it's a lousy year for qb's. if you're gonna gamble on someone might as well go with the best athlete.

Are you sure your nickname shouldnt' be Al_Davis ??

I think he'll be great paired with Calvin Johnson.

Come on...wasn't Reggie Ball enough torture for Johnson?

Are you sure your nickname shouldnt' be Al_Davis ??

i see how it is. i'll have you know sir that this kid's got moxy. MOXY!

for the record, some of my previous predictions included dexter jackson (app st) having a better career than desean jackson and that chad henne would emerge as the best qb of his class (ryan/flacco)

/whistles away in self satisfaction/

Rutgers is doing a pretty good job putting defensive players in the NFL. In a couple years maybe there will be a bunch on one team, and then Jarrett Brown can just bounce around the NFL playing against that squad weekly. All-Pro.

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Sorry, couldn't resist. :D

Thank god youtube doesn't autoplay.

let's see dan lefevour do that shit.

Brandon Marshall to the Dolphins?

yep. for a second. good for miami.

yep. for a second. good for miami.

For 2 2nd's. One this year and one next year.

I guess I'm happy with that (assuming it's both picks). Seems like he wasn't going to be around next year, everyone knew it, and they still got something of value for him.

That Jerry Jones video talking bad about Parcells and Tebow... am I missing something? The media is trying to make it sound like Jones is disparaging Tebow by saying he wouldn't use a 3rd round pick on him because he'd never see the field. Um, isn't that because he has Romo, and not necessarily because he thinks Tebow sucks? My guess is, Polian would say the same thing. What, do you want him to bench Peyton Manning?

Not a fan of Brandon Marshall. Talented guy, but an asshat. Wish he'd gone to Seattle or something.

For 2 2nd's. One this year and one next year.

Good for Denver. I am happy with that. We now have a 1st 2 seconds and most likely two 3s once we trade Scheffler later this week.

We're still waiting in Chicago for a GODDAMN NUMBER 1 RECEIVER. Or anyone that even remotely resembles that. With Martz here we have an offense that no longer needs a pass catching TE, and relies pretty heavily on throwing to WRs... Right now that's Knox (meh), Bennett(ugh), and Hester(shudder).

We're still waiting in Chicago for a GODDAMN NUMBER 1 RECEIVER. Or anyone that even remotely resembles that. With Martz here we have an offense that no longer needs a pass catching TE, and relies pretty heavily on throwing to WRs... Right now that's Knox (meh), Bennett(ugh), and Hester(shudder).

Martz is going to have to adjust to the talent he has available, because the Bears just don't have the leeway to make any more big splashes. Expect to see Olsen lining up in the slot a lot this year.

Also, as much as I dislike Martz and am pervently praying that the lame-duck staff here doesn't get Cutler killed, Martz' system could mean big numbers for Johnny Knox this year.

We're still waiting in Chicago for a GODDAMN NUMBER 1 RECEIVER. Or anyone that even remotely resembles that. With Martz here we have an offense that no longer needs a pass catching TE, and relies pretty heavily on throwing to WRs... Right now that's Knox (meh), Bennett(ugh), and Hester(shudder).

Word out of Dove Valley here in Denver was two teams that were never even considered by Denver FO was Chicago or the Redskins though they probably could not have ponied up the two 2nd rounders anyways.

Wow, it's been a long time since we had a legitimately good WR.

I think it is essentially a 5 year 50m deal, too. 24m in guarantees. Not bad for a guy that likely talked enough shit to get one of his friends killed.

We're still waiting in Chicago for a GODDAMN NUMBER 1 RECEIVER. Or anyone that even remotely resembles that. With Martz here we have an offense that no longer needs a pass catching TE, and relies pretty heavily on throwing to WRs... Right now that's Knox (meh), Bennett(ugh), and Hester(shudder).

I think you may already have that guy in Devin Aromashodu. I stashed him on my fantasy roster after hearing Cutler rave about him and beg for him to be put on the field. And once he was, his numbers were awesome. He had a stinker against BAL (the whole team did), but otherwise: 8 for 76 and a TD; 7 for 150 and a TD, and 5 for 46 and 2 TDs. Not bad for the stretch run.

Supposedly the Dolphins were already shopping Ginn and will continue to do so. I'm curious what they're looking for back. Wouldn't mind at all if the Niners could pick him as a returner for a late pick.

I hear they are looking for somebody with an equally solid family. I wonder if anyone who was defending this pick back in 07 wants to show their face in here now...

Not a fan of Brandon Marshall. Talented guy, but an asshat. Wish he'd gone to Seattle or something.

This. But maybe he'll change my mind and it's nice to finally have a true #1 again. So much for Dez, though. Now it'll be NT Williams or one of the 3-4 DE/OLB types.

I hear they are looking for somebody with an equally solid family. I wonder if anyone who was defending this pick back in 07 wants to show their face in here now...

Is there anyone like that besides Cam Cameron?

I hear they are looking for somebody with an equally solid family. I wonder if anyone who was defending this pick back in 07 wants to show their face in here now...

I'm sure that person is right beside all the other LOLPhins fans who wanted them to draft Brady Fucking Quinn.

Honestly, would Quinn have been any worse of a pick?

If it helps us avoid Dez, that's at least a plus. I wish the Dolphins cared more about character.

I think it is essentially a 5 year 50m deal, too. 24m in guarantees. Not bad for a guy that likely talked enough shit to get one of his friends killed.

Stay classy Pittsburgh and coming from a Steelers fan after some of the shit Rothliesberger just went throu I would think being silent is a good idea.

I gather you didn't follow the trial?

I gather you didn't follow the trial?

Not so much.

And we finally have a return man. Plus it is better than wasting a 1st on Spiller like some people would like us to do IMO.

Supposedly the Dolphins were already shopping Ginn and will continue to do so. I'm curious what they're looking for back. Wouldn't mind at all if the Niners could pick him as a returner for a late pick.

Who's the man?!

Who's the man?!

:D

Bears fans, T.O is available. :D

anyone see the grudens qb camp segs (http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5080617) on espn?

hate to say it, but tebow looks pretty strong.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2010emmitt.php

If Emmitt Smith did an NFL mock draft.

Huh.

Odd deal:

The Eagles send a 5th round pick to Denver for Tony Scheffler.

The Eagles then send Scheffler to the Lions for LB Ernie Sims.

The Lions also get a 7th round pick from Denver.

I always liked Ernie Sims and the way he hit people, but he wasn't a great linebacker. Soild, but not great in any way. I supposed picking up Scheffler means that Petigrew's recovery from his knee surgery isn't going great.

This creates yet another hole on the leauge's worst defense. They aren't really that deep at linebacker. Projected starters were Julian Peterson, 2nd year guy Deandre Levy and Sims. There really isn't any back-up who is a starting caliber player.

H_B (or any other Detroit fan):

Folks on the Saints message board are speculating about a possible Jamal Brown to Detroit trade. Not based on any rumors, I think--just the idea that the Saints have a surplus of LTs and Detroit needs one.

Any rumors of that on you guys' end of things?

H_B (or any other Detroit fan):

Folks on the Saints message board are speculating about a possible Jamal Brown to Detroit trade. Not based on any rumors, I think--just the idea that the Saints have a surplus of LTs and Detroit needs one.

Any rumors of that on you guys' end of things?

I haven't heard any rumors about that, but then again I hadn't heard anything at all about moving Ernie Sims or getting Scheffler.

Mayhew has shown a propensity for trading for players, so it is a distinct possibility.

I don't know too much about Jamal Brown. If the Lions consider him an upgrade over Backus, they might make the deal, but I am not sure what they'll do with Backus then, since they already traded for a potential starting LG in Sims from Seattle. I guess they could move Backus to RG or RT, since Cherlius hasn't blown anyone away.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2010emmitt.php

If Emmitt Smith did an NFL mock draft.

I don't know which one I like better: Golden State or Tim Tivo. They both made me laugh out loud. :)

I haven't heard any rumors about that, but then again I hadn't heard anything at all about moving Ernie Sims or getting Scheffler.

Mayhew has shown a propensity for trading for players, so it is a distinct possibility.

I don't know too much about Jamal Brown. If the Lions consider him an upgrade over Backus, they might make the deal, but I am not sure what they'll do with Backus then, since they already traded for a potential starting LG in Sims from Seattle. I guess they could move Backus to RG or RT, since Cherlius hasn't blown anyone away.

Brown is a pro-bowl quality LT, but was on IR last season. Honestly, I'd like it if the Saints got rid of him. He's a great player, but he has bad knees. Maybe he can play another 10 years at a pro-bowl LT. I'm more likely to think that he will be out of the league in five years due to injury.

If it helps us avoid Dez, that's at least a plus. I wish the Dolphins cared more about character.

Are you saying that Dez Bryant has more character issues than Marshall?

The Lions send Ernie Sims to the Eagles for Tony Schleffer & a 7th rounder?

I hope they run a lot of 2 TE sets...

I don't have an issue with the Lions deal. Scheffler can be used as an H-Back and a huge matchup problem, while in a 4-3 D the WLB is the most easily replaced LB position. Plus Detroit likes bigger LB's anyway.

I fully expect a Keith Bulluck signing tbh.

I don't get why you trade Marshall away and then draft Bryant? Isn't Bryant a headcase too? Why trade one proven headcase that performs at a high level and then draft an unknown headcase?

I don't get why you trade Marshall away and then draft Bryant? Isn't Bryant a headcase too? Why trade one proven headcase that performs at a high level and then draft an unknown headcase?

I don't think Bryant has too much baggage. I may be mistaken and he may have some run-ins that I didn't know about, but I think his biggest problem was that he broke an NCAA rule by talking to Deion Sanders and did not disclose it.

Dola...

Plus the fact that his suspension kept him from playing the majority of last season.

I don't think Bryant has too much baggage. I may be mistaken and he may have some run-ins that I didn't know about, but I think his biggest problem was that he broke an NCAA rule by talking to Deion Sanders and did not disclose it.

His workouts and interviews haven't gone well, but Kiper says too much is being made of teams eliminating Bryant.

Been hearing a lot of talk on the Saints board that Jamal Brown is on the trading block, not sure where he'll end up- but he was a pro-bowl LT a couple years ago. We won the superbowl without him- so I guess they are confident in Jermon Bushrod, and don't feel like paying Brown.

I don't have an issue with the Lions deal. Scheffler can be used as an H-Back and a huge matchup problem, while in a 4-3 D the WLB is the most easily replaced LB position. Plus Detroit likes bigger LB's anyway.

I fully expect a Keith Bulluck signing tbh.


I would like a Keith Bulluck signing. I know he's older and coming off a major knee injury, but the guy is a playmaker.

While I am generally like Mayhew so far, I am still not convinced by anything he has done, other than the Roy Williams trade. That was a great trade, but other than that? The jury is still out.

Free agent/trading-wise, nothing he's done has really made an impact. Of all the veterans he acquired last year, the only two still on the team that I can recall are Peterson, Ko Simpson, Marquand Manuel and Will Heller.

I really don't have much faith that Vanden Bosch and Burleson will make any kind of impact at all. Those signings remind me too much of that whole Damien Woody/Dre Bly disaster. I expect very little from Chris Houston or that new Sims guard guy from Seattle. Teams don't trade good players away for 6th and 7th round picks.

Drafting-wise, last year's draft looks better than any of the prior 10 or so drafts, but that's not saying much of anything. Sure, a lot of rookies had a lot playing time last year, but I think that's more because of how bad the team was as opposed to how good the rookies were. Stafford looks pretty good, but he was the first overall pick and was, more or less, the consensus best player. Delmas is very good. Sammie Lee-Hill and Levy were ok. Follet seems like a solid special teams guy. I have no problem with Pettigrew, though it's looking like Oher was the better pick there. Derek Williams stunk last year and Aaron Brown was ok at times.

Huh.

Odd deal:

The Eagles send a 5th round pick to Denver for Tony Scheffler.

The Eagles then send Scheffler to the Lions for LB Ernie Sims.

The Lions also get a 7th round pick from Denver.

I always liked Ernie Sims and the way he hit people, but he wasn't a great linebacker. Soild, but not great in any way. I supposed picking up Scheffler means that Petigrew's recovery from his knee surgery isn't going great.

This creates yet another hole on the leauge's worst defense. They aren't really that deep at linebacker. Projected starters were Julian Peterson, 2nd year guy Deandre Levy and Sims. There really isn't any back-up who is a starting caliber player.

I like that trade for the Eagles. "Solid" equals a nice upgrade at the position for the Eagles.

all denver needs to do now is trade clady and the de-shanahization will be complete.

dola

i used to do the same thing in mp. no matter how good the team i inherited was i'd be all 'this ain't my team. boom!' only to sell off everyone and replace them with players of equal or lesser value.

but i'm sure mcdaniels knows what he's doing.

Why didnt the Lions just send a 5th to Denver for Sheffler and a 7th.

Why didnt the Lions just send a 5th to Denver for Sheffler and a 7th.

No 5th to give. Sims was done here anyway. His contract is up at the end of the year like Scheffler and he just didn't fit in with this system. 49 tackles in 11 games won't cut it at all when he also never gets sacks or creates turnovers.

Sam Bradford on Sirius tonight was just awful. He could not have handled himself worse. Basically the hosts asked him about the Rams and he was stuttering and stammering and couldn't come up with one nice thing to say about the franchise. He even said STL was looking for a certain type of QB and he might not be what they want.

Then the guys mentioned him going to a good team like Sanchez and he was a different person.

Now I know being on a good team would be great but he is handling this really bad. Stafford was going to an equally bad team last season and embraced it. Bradford is staring at 50 mil from St. Louis and is looking for a way out.

Even when it ended the hosts were amazed he could have handled it as poorly as he did.

Didn't see it, but at least he seems to care about winning as opposed to Jabustus "got my money" Russell.

I personally think the Rams would be better off taking Suh anyway, who knows- might still happen. I think they can get a QB in the 2nd round, and find a vet to lose with for a couple years. If the team is that bad, stack it with young talent then when the young QB is ready to step in- he'll step into a much better situation (Sanchez stepped into a good spot- great D, great running game).

If the Rams don't take him, he's still going to a crappy team so he might as well accept that aspect. Seems odd to wait to go as high as you can in the draft for the big money and then act like you don't want to play on a bad team.
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i think the rams want to move out of their pick but they've lost their leverage by not even attempting the ruse of negotiations with bradford.

i suspect the redskins want him but there's no incentive because of the rams waffling and if they don't take him he'll be there at 4.

i think the rams want to move out of their pick but they've lost their leverage by not even attempting the ruse of negotiations with bradford.

i suspect the redskins want him but there's no incentive because of the rams waffling and if they don't take him he'll be there at 4.

The Rams are screwed because they have the 1.1 pick and it's hell to trade up to that spot. Only Cleveland has gotten much press at trading up, but they would be going from 1.7 so there's very little chance that's happening. There's so very little real incentive to trade up to the 1.1 pick either. Suh is the best graded player, but Gerald McCoy is right behind him.

The Skins won't take him because they got McNabb. Even if he's not a long term answer, it seems rather quick to grab a QB at 1.4. Why grab a backup for the next couple of years when you can grab a starter now?

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It always amazes me when a team does not have a deal with the 1.1 pick before the draft. Why not hammer something out when you have leverage?

Decide which handful of players you are willing to take, and see if any agent is willing to take a slightly below-market contract in order to get to be the 1.1 player. Especially because slightly below market at 1.1 is still better than you would get for any lower pick.

Once you pick a guy, he has a lot more leverage over the situation.

The Skins won't take him because they got McNabb. Even if he's not a long term answer, it seems rather quick to grab a QB at 1.4. Why grab a backup for the next couple of years when you can grab a starter now?

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just intuition. i think mcnabb's a one year rental and was brought in under that premise. allows him to walk to zona next year which is what he wants.

i think it's a 3 year rebuild in dc with dad and allen setting things up for kyle to take over long term. obv getting a qb in asap is a priority.

if they think bradfords the guy there is no reason not to take him at 4.

It always amazes me when a team does not have a deal with the 1.1 pick before the draft. Why not hammer something out when you have leverage?

Decide which handful of players you are willing to take, and see if any agent is willing to take a slightly below-market contract in order to get to be the 1.1 player. Especially because slightly below market at 1.1 is still better than you would get for any lower pick.

Once you pick a guy, he has a lot more leverage over the situation.

I agree. This is exactly what the Lions did last year. They were openly negotiating with a couple of top guys. I forget exactly who, but I know Aaron Curry was one of them. As a result, they had Stafford signed up prior to the draft.

It always amazes me when a team does not have a deal with the 1.1 pick before the draft. Why not hammer something out when you have leverage?

Decide which handful of players you are willing to take, and see if any agent is willing to take a slightly below-market contract in order to get to be the 1.1 player. Especially because slightly below market at 1.1 is still better than you would get for any lower pick.

Once you pick a guy, he has a lot more leverage over the situation.


I gotta agree with this- once the player gets leverage the agent will convince them to sit out training camp for a few million, and it could really hurt their career.

just intuition. i think mcnabb's a one year rental and was brought in under that premise. allows him to walk to zona next year which is what he wants.

i think it's a 3 year rebuild in dc with dad and allen setting things up for kyle to take over long term. obv getting a qb in asap is a priority.

if they think bradfords the guy there is no reason not to take him at 4.

I think trading for McNabb to be a one year rental is a poor and costly move. I highly doubt they would just let him walk to the Cards.

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I think trading for McNabb to be a one year rental is a poor and costly move.
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i agree. i think that decision fell more in the snyder camp than the allen/shanny camp. big dan doesn't place a lot of value on picks.

as far as letting mcnabb walk, maybe that was the caveat that got him there. he's been pretty dodgy on the contract extension talk.

but again, i'm just speculating.

It always amazes me when a team does not have a deal with the 1.1 pick before the draft. Why not hammer something out when you have leverage?

Decide which handful of players you are willing to take, and see if any agent is willing to take a slightly below-market contract in order to get to be the 1.1 player. Especially because slightly below market at 1.1 is still better than you would get for any lower pick.

Once you pick a guy, he has a lot more leverage over the situation.

I don't think an agent will do a deal for 1.1 that is much below what market should be. I just think there is too much arrogance in the process. If it were possible, by now we'd have seen a situation where someone like Brady Quinn or Aaron Rodgers would have been the #1 pick, instead of going in the 20s. Nobody wants to do that deal where the players picked after them are getting less. It's not about the player, it's about the agents ego. And future client recruitment. Russell Maryland('91) was probably the last 1.1 to sign well below market.

Bradford is going to sign for roughly 6 years, up to 84million, and 45 in guarantees, whether it's today, or August 1st.

Bradford is going to sign for roughly 6 years, up to 84million, and 45 in guarantees, whether it's today, or August 1st.

And that's just crazy- hopefully we get a rookie wage scale in place soon. Crazy that these early 1st round picks come in and make more than the best at their positions.

And that's just crazy- hopefully we get a rookie wage scale in place soon. Crazy that these early 1st round picks come in and make more than the best at their positions.

Especially in a salary cap league...doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Not a shock but Goodell announced in an NFL.com chat that the Saints/Vikes will open the 2010 season.

They are going to "kick of" the season?

Not a shock but Goodell announced in an NFL.com chat that the Saints/Vikes will open the 2010 season.

Yup- thats the least surprising news I've heard, but glad it is official. Should be a good game, and I can't wait to be there.

Wonder if they'll ever get that star caps issues settled....

They are going to "kick of" the season?

Coming from the guy with more typos and incoherent ramblings than anyone, all blamed on the Blackberry!

Coming from the guy with more typos and incoherent ramblings than anyone, all blamed on the Blackberry!

Suretype.

Looks like there will only be Divisional games in Week 17.

I like it. Finish up the season with divisional rivalries that will hopefully have playoff implications as well. Either both teams fighting for a playoff spot, or maybe one team on a down year with the opportunity to stick it to a divisional foe and cost them a wildcard spot.

Pats signed Torry Holt

FM

Carricker traded to the Redskins.

I would have liked the Falcons to come to the Dome to open the season.

But the Vikes won't be a bad matchup.

Looks like there will only be Divisional games in Week 17.

I like it. Finish up the season with divisional rivalries that will hopefully have playoff implications as well. Either both teams fighting for a playoff spot, or maybe one team on a down year with the opportunity to stick it to a divisional foe and cost them a wildcard spot.

I'm guessing it will be McNabb's old team vs McNabb's new team. Will be a good thing if there's still some divisions/wild cards in play. It might have been better to do it Week 16.

Jason Taylor signs with the Jets for 2 years

I'm surprised that McNabb is reportedly lobbying for T.O to be signed by Washington.

Steelers pick up Byron Leftwich from the Bucs for a 7th rounder. Supposedly insurance for Roethlisberger's anticipated 3-4 game suspension (from what Shefter and Clayton seem to think). Kind of opens up a tiny sliver of a chance that Big Ben could be dealt, as it seemed as if Dennis Dixon held his own as a starter last season and Charlie Batch has been very loyal and is a capable #3 (ie: it seems unlikely that any of the three would be released, although a trip to IR for Batch is significantly more likely than a Roethlisberger trade).

Peter King indicated that (surprise, surprise) the Raiders would gladly trade for Big Ben. I think he stays put

Also, the Jets are reportedly shopping Alan Faneca and Shaun Ellis, who are both over the hill and have seen better days. Faneca is due to make over $7-million this season, so he will probably be released rather than traded. I could certainly see him end back up in Pittsburgh or Pittsburgh-West (Arizona).

Ok, this NFL schedule release show on ESPN is ridiculous. Mike Tirico is trying to justify the show's existence by saying it's big news because people need to make travel plans. Unreal. Has ESPN run out of programming that it has to stoop to this level? Or is this just the tail (NFL) wagging the dog (ESPN)?

The Chargers vs. Chiefs opener for Monday Night Football is gold too. The Chiefs pitched to the NFL that since Arrowhead Stadium has been remodeled that it's a "new" stadium and therefore deserves a primetime opening game. That means we have a 9:15 local time kickoff.

I went in with friends on season tickets this year, and there's no way we're getting home from that home opener until after 1am unless it's a blowout.

Also looks like almost nothing has been learned regarding making the MNF games more attractive. A few good games in there but way too many .500 teams in those games. The Texans, 49ers and Bears have no business being on MNF twice each. It's fine if you want to project that those teams will win at least 10 games next year, but I'll take the under. I don't think your marquee games each week should feature .500 or worse teams.

I think ben gets 8 games. After the latest bunch of shit got released, he is maybe worth a 4th round pick. If it is 8 games, they will probably sever ties once it is over with.

3 of the first 4 on the road for the Niners. Doh!

there is no reason to trade for lefty if this is a 4 game suspension.

John Clayton thinks it will be a 4-game suspension that will be reduced to 3. Who knows?

I guess the cryptkeeper would probably know.

Also, the Jets are reportedly shopping Alan Faneca and Shaun Ellis, who are both over the hill and have seen better days. Faneca is due to make over $7-million this season, so he will probably be released rather than traded. I could certainly see him end back up in Pittsburgh or Pittsburgh-West (Arizona).

Weird. I know Faneca makes big dough, but he is one of those older OLmen that actually earned a pro bowl spot last year. He may not have been as quick as his old self, but every time I saw him play he still clearly looked like a pro bowl guard. Odd that the Jets would eat some of that big contract money rather than let Faneca earn it while he is still in a position to do so.

Weird. I know Faneca makes big dough, but he is one of those older OLmen that actually earned a pro bowl spot last year. He may not have been as quick as his old self, but every time I saw him play he still clearly looked like a pro bowl guard. Odd that the Jets would eat some of that big contract money rather than let Faneca earn it while he is still in a position to do so.

The article I saw said that he graded out poorly in passing situations and was essentially neutral in running situations. I'm guessing he is still a starting caliber-type of guard, but not a $7.5-million worthy player.

The article I saw said that he graded out poorly in passing situations and was essentially neutral in running situations. I'm guessing he is still a starting caliber-type of guard, but not a $7.5-million worthy player.

Huh, I might have caught him at his best last year then. When I saw him he still looked good in the run blocking, as opposed to Steve Hutchinson who looked like a shadow of his former run blocking self last year.

Huh, I might have caught him at his best last year then. When I saw him he still looked good in the run blocking, as opposed to Steve Hutchinson who looked like a shadow of his former run blocking self last year.

Yeah -- I can honestly say that, other than the playoff games, I did not watch much of the Jets last season, so I don't know much beyone the short article I read today. It kind of insinuated that his run blocking was no longer good enough to "carry" his pass blocking and that his Pro Bowl bid was based on reputation more than performance.

I still wouldn't mind having him back w/ the Steelers.

I think ben gets 8 games. After the latest bunch of shit got released, he is maybe worth a 4th round pick. If it is 8 games, they will probably sever ties once it is over with.

I looked over the schedule a little while ago and the Steelers have no primetime games until week 7 (including a game against the Ravens, which are almost always Sunday or Monday night), I believe. That, to me, indicates that he would be back by week 7.

I'm really surprised that he is going to get nailed this hard, but it seems to be pretty widely anticipated around the news media and they made the deal for Leftwich, so I guess it is pretty likely that he is getting 3-4 minimum.

well my prediction of an Eagles/Redskins Week 17 game didn't turn out so well-in fact their last game is a Monday night game in week 10. And I think they don't play the Giants until Week 13 and then last game of the year. Not a big fan of that.

swaggs-Dennis Dixon is switching to #10. Nothing good can come from this.

Schefter saying it will be 4 to 6 games with conditions.

swaggs-Dennis Dixon is switching to #10. Nothing good can come from this.

What better? Kordell or Santonio?

What better? Kordell or Santonio?

What better? Doing a UPS man in Schenley Park or smoking dope?

What better? Doing a UPS man in Schenley Park or smoking dope?

What worse? Smoking dope or hitting bar girl in face with glass?

What worse? Smoking dope or hitting bar girl in face with glass?

Or having a horrible growth on your neck.

Oakland is going to cut JaMarcus Russell. It's a shame that Al Davis didn't have anyone there to tell him drafting Russell may not be a good idea.

I realized that you did not want to draft JaMarcus Russell. He is a great player. Get over it.

Oh...

As expected, Pittsburgh West..er...Arizona signed G Alan Faneca to a 1 year deal. In somewhat of a shocking move, the Panthers have traded S Chris Harris back to the Chicago Bears for LB Jamar Williams. I thought Harris did a good job for Carolina, so a bit surprised to see him traded.

In somewhat of a shocking move, the Panthers have traded S Chris Harris back to the Chicago Bears for LB Jamar Williams. I thought Harris did a good job for Carolina, so a bit surprised to see him traded.

Sweet! I thought that trading Harris to the Panthers was a mistake in the first place, and looking at the Bears' safety play since that move pretty much proves the point. Glad to see him back!

Harris did fine as a Panther, but they are now deep at safety and thin at LB as part of their youth movement.

Source: Ryan Clady tore patellar tendon playing basketball | ProFootballTalk.com (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/28/source-ryan-clady-tore-patellar-tendon-playing-basketball/)

Oof.

Source: Ryan Clady tore patellar tendon playing basketball | ProFootballTalk.com (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/04/28/source-ryan-clady-tore-patellar-tendon-playing-basketball/)

Oof.

Damn...

I wonder if they want to give the Saints a 2nd round pick for Jamaal Brown...

Santonio Holmes reportedly removed from plane last night for failing to turn off his iPod. LOL

Santonio Holmes reportedly removed from plane last night for failing to turn off his iPod. LOL


What a moron.

Favre's ankle now needs serious surgery and he's mulling retirement again. Surprisingly, he'll elect for the surgery and end up being 100% around the third week of August. Wait, then he'll miss most of training camp - darn!

Seeing as the kind of season Favre had last year (awesome, career year) I think and hope he comes back one last time. I'm not a vikings fan, but they were a real treat to watch last season for anyone a fan of the NFL or football in general.

Walter Jones retired yesterday and the Seahawks immediately retired #71 (only the second player number retired by the team).

5,703 pass attempts over 13 seasons, according to coaches stats, Walter Jones was called for holding 9 times and surrendered 23 sacks.

13 seasons, 9 pro bowls, 7 all pros and likely should have been the MVP in 2005 instead of Alexander.

Just a shame that he never got a ring and that his career was ended more so by injuries than anything else. A truly great career though.

More on Holmes:

hxxp://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5151435

Quote from the report:

"On Thursday April 29, 2010 at 21:00 hours, aircom requested officers to gate D-77 for a report of an incident aboard the aircraft no other information was available," the report states. "Myself and Officer [redacted] arrived and spoke to flight attendant [redacted] of Colgan Air who stated that a passenger wouldn't turn off his ipod when requested to do so and requested officers to speak to him"

Walter Jones retired yesterday and the Seahawks immediately retired #71 (only the second player number retired by the team).

5,703 pass attempts over 13 seasons, according to coaches stats, Walter Jones was called for holding 9 times and surrendered 23 sacks.

13 seasons, 9 pro bowls, 7 all pros and likely should have been the MVP in 2005 instead of Alexander.

Just a shame that he never got a ring and that his career was ended more so by injuries than anything else. A truly great career though.
My favorite all-time player and one of the best to play the game. We'll miss you Walt...but nobody as much as Hasselbeck has.

Favre's ankle now needs serious surgery and he's mulling retirement again. Surprisingly, he'll elect for the surgery and end up being 100% around the third week of August. Wait, then he'll miss most of training camp - darn!

What I don't get is him waiting 3 months to finally see a doctor.
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What I don't get is him waiting 3 months to finally see a doctor.
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Because it's a way to miss training camp without headlining sportscenter for a month.

Why did Kirk Morrison get trade by teh Raiders? Did he wear out his welcome, did he have problems with teammates ,what was going on ther?

Because it's a way to miss training camp without headlining sportscenter for a month.

LOL at the idea that Brett Favre does not want to lead sportscenter.

Sounds like Limas Sweed tore his ACL.

oh snap. At least now he can't drop TD passes.

this is the kind of player I'd love to have on my team

"The Associated Press reports linebacker Rolando McClain led Alabama last season in tackles, big hits and hours spent studying football. So when the Oakland Raiders drafted him in the first round with the No. 8 overall choice, McClain did what any serious student of the game would do before his first big NFL test: start studying for the three-day mandatory minicamp. "The day after I got drafted, I called looking for a playbook, something to look over, some DVDs and the playbook," McClain said after his first minicamp practice with the Raiders. "I didn't waste any time." McClain said the Raiders quickly shipped him some material to study. Then when he arrived for minicamp, Raiders coach Tom Cable immediately plugged him into his defense at middle linebacker with the first-team. "I thought very poised and he seemed to adapt to being able to go in and call the huddle right away," Cable said. "He's been here really less than 24 hours. It shows the level of intelligence this young has, his background. He was very impressive that way. Now, he's got to learn how to play in our defense."

Thank God the Raiders did something right.

I still think it's funny hearing Kiper blast the Raiders again after picking McClain because he wanted them to pick Claussen.

this is the kind of player I'd love to have on my team

"The Associated Press reports linebacker Rolando McClain led Alabama last season in tackles, big hits and hours spent studying football. So when the Oakland Raiders drafted him in the first round with the No. 8 overall choice, McClain did what any serious student of the game would do before his first big NFL test: start studying for the three-day mandatory minicamp. "The day after I got drafted, I called looking for a playbook, something to look over, some DVDs and the playbook," McClain said after his first minicamp practice with the Raiders. "I didn't waste any time." McClain said the Raiders quickly shipped him some material to study. Then when he arrived for minicamp, Raiders coach Tom Cable immediately plugged him into his defense at middle linebacker with the first-team. "I thought very poised and he seemed to adapt to being able to go in and call the huddle right away," Cable said. "He's been here really less than 24 hours. It shows the level of intelligence this young has, his background. He was very impressive that way. Now, he's got to learn how to play in our defense."


im more convinced than ever that Al Davis thought the draft started on saturday and his coaches and GM secretly made the picks

im more convinced than ever that Al Davis thought the draft started on saturday and his coaches and GM secretly made the picks

HAHAHAHA

im more convinced than ever that Al Davis thought the draft started on saturday and his coaches and GM secretly made the picks

And yet Davis is still fooled as he thinks he selected Bruce Campbell at the top of round 1 and then moved up to get speedster Jacoby Ford in the middle of the first.

And thankfully he is not able to operate the internets.

And yet Davis is still fooled as he thinks he selected Bruce Campbell at the top of round 1 and then moved up to get speedster Jacoby Ford in the middle of the first.

Well I wouldn't use either as amazing examples. Ford is really fast but it's straight line speed. When you watch him play games he is not 4.3 fast. He plays much slower and very robotic.

Campbell was a good developmental pick but I liked Valdheer better. Campbell should be a good OG in the future, but he again is a combine wonder who is very raw.

I love what Oakland did but I think some of it is comparatively speaking to my expectations on what they might have done. There first three picks were damn solid though.

I actually very much like the Campbell pick since it was round 4 and I don't mind the Ford pick either since again it was round 4 and he should help on returns and in the slot.

I actually can completely believe that the Raiders' staff purposefully neglected to tell Al Davis that the draft started on Thursday this year.

Pacman Jones + Bengals = a match made in heaven

Pacman Jones + Bengals = a match made in heaven

I just read that story, unbelievable.

I just read that story, unbelievable.

It's really almost like...it was destined to be. I think he might possibly make it through one year before he gets booted out of the league...but if so it'll only be because something happens in say...late october and the commish won't take action until an investigation is done and the season is over for the bengals.

Over/Under for "Date of incident that gets him in trouble with league office" (regardless of when it comes to light, when it occurs).

I'll take October 26 and the under.

Dec 1st over

Surprise Surprise

Saggy tits on the Texans, Brian Cushing, was suspended 4 games for steroid use

Surprise Surprise

Saggy tits on the Texans, Brian Cushing, was suspended 4 games for steroid use

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d42/JSnipes/cushing.jpg

No way!

Surprise Surprise

Saggy tits on the Texans, Brian Cushing, was suspended 4 games for steroid use

Least surprising suspension ever. And that is saying something for the NFL.

Pacman Jones + Bengals = a match made in heaven


Goodell needs to suspend the jackass who signs all these thugs for the Bengals

AN NFL SUPERSTAR'S REPULSIVE BEHAVIOR, THE ULTIMATE - 05.10.10 - SI Vault (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1169185/1/index.htm)



As well as Roethlisberger has played—and there's no disputing he's one of the league's elite quarterbacks—his off-the-field reputation has spiraled downward since a horrific motorcycle accident in June 2006, five months after he became the youngest QB to lead a team to the title. Roethlisberger was riding his black 2005 Suzuki Hayabusa motorcycle, helmetless and without a permit, in downtown Pittsburgh when he collided with a Chrysler New Yorker. Roethlisberger hit the windshield, rolled over the roof of the car and struck the ground headfirst. He suffered a broken jaw and nose and underwent seven hours of surgery. "If I ever ride again," he said afterward, "it certainly will be with a helmet."

A few months after the accident, a reporter and a cameraman for KDKA-TV, the CBS affiliate that broadcasts Steelers games, were driving on I-376 in Pittsburgh when they saw two men on motorcycles and recognized one as Roethlisberger, who was not wearing a helmet. They began shooting footage, which showed Roethlisberger giving them the finger as he sped away, but the video never aired. The station's news director at the time, John Verrilli, and its current assistant news director, Anne Linaberger, deny that any such tape existed, but several people who saw the video gave SI similar accounts of the tape; sources believe the story was killed out of fear that it would damage KDKA's relationship with the Steelers. "If we had been the other affiliate [which doesn't broadcast the games]," says one of the people who saw the tape, "it would have been A-1 news." (A neighbor who lives near Roethlisberger in a tony section of Gibsonia, Pa., but did not want to be named has also seen the quarterback on his motorcycle. "I've never seen him with a helmet," the neighbor said.)




Interesting article. Guy sounds not only like a jackass, but also an absolute idiot.

So Cushing was taking the same stuff that got Manny Ramirez banned for 50 games? Does that mean he's now subject to the same mocking that MR got for being on a women's fertility drug?