Madden NFL 13 News Post

EA Sports Sim Community Demand Quick Fix - Madden NFL 13 DE Pass Rush

09:48 PM - June 13, 2012 by LBzrule

We have talked about this already but I want to look at this not from the perspective of All Pro Football or any of the 2k games. I want to look at this within the framework of Madden/NCAA and I have already forwarded this and hope there is something that can be done. They can actually make the DE's rush better in Madden 13 by paying attention to the scripts and animations in their own animation engine. I saw this in the NCAA 13 demo (thus I know they have access to the animation script) but did not see it in any of the Madden videos from E3. It did not happen too much in the NCAA 13 video. When I saw it the lights came on. It's not the solution, but it is perhaps the best realistic quick fix they can make for Madden 13 to get the DE's to rush the passer more adequately.

It's not the end all be all but I think we need this script as a quick fix.

While it can look better, we gotta work with what EA is giving us. This script is in the game and looks decent so why not replicate it and have guys do it more instead of the bounce and keep bouncing animation. At least with this one there is an engagement and the DE actually dips his shoulder and there actually looks to be a struggle between the tackle and the DE. I think blitzing 3-4 OLB's deserve the same rush script.

Let me be clear on what I'm advocating. I think this script needs to play out more consistently through passing downs if you set your defense up to rush this way. Second, the guys coming off the edge need to get there a little faster than the LSU DE's in the video.

Separating players based on ratings would be the tricky part. I think this could help with making the elite pass rushers actually seem like they are on the field.
Another thing to think about since EA's system is based on wins and losses is what would a win for an offensive tackle look like in this scenario?

What do you guys think?

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Member Comments

# 21 Kanobi @ 06/14/12 04:47 AM

LBZ - Kudos to you for breaking this down without making any comparisons to All Pro Football. The way you present it, EA has few excused for getting this done. At the same time, The OL/DL play being vastly superior and more dynamic in that game despite it being 5 years older IMO needs to be brought to EA's attention as much as possible.

# 22 JerzeyReign @ 06/14/12 07:04 AM

Maybe its just me but I like it but I don't -- the pocket never truly forms. The QB is on the outskirts of it.

They need to 'spread' the interactions out a bit so the QB is actually in the pocket -- mixt that in with DEs rushing up the field (which should only be on pass commit type plays) and that would be golden.

Getting them to at least mimick doing it right is good I guess but until they fix the entire line's interaction with each other it will never look right IMO.

# 23 LBzrule @ 06/14/12 09:04 AM

What up Kanobi? I did a video with 2k8 earlier. Based on what I've seen of Madden 13, they aint coming close to the way the DE's rushed the passer in that game. I just want them to have something to keep folks interested on defense and pressured on offense. From the E3 videos it looks like defense is going to get old pretty quick and become a chore. I don't want to have to rely on spy's and contains or the blitz set ups that always get the DE as a free rusher.

Another idea I thought about this morning was the contain blitz. Why not use the contain script but rather than have the DE's breaking off and stopping the rush, have them keep running up the field. At least it is wider. Then have them fight and push the OT in rather than bouncing. I don't know, I just hope they get something done in this area this year that is decent. They are not going to get the OL/DL fixed by any means this year, but if they can do anything to enhance it and make it look better, that's what I'm after. What I saw from the E3 videos looked like the past, namely, live and die by the blitz. Or try to trick the OL and get one man free. Mehhhh, no longer into that type of stuff.

# 24 sportyguyfl31 @ 06/14/12 11:22 AM

LBz always has great content.

I agree 100% with his point of view on this matter.

My only thing is that I absolutely DESPISE the use of commits- Run or Pass, in order to achieve the aggression that should be naturally occuring during the course of a game, based on down, distance play call, pre snap adjustments, and how good the players actually are.

Ive seen enough of these commits, to be convinced that all they do is give the defenders a programming steriods boost to their ratings at the expense of the offense.

# 25 bigeastbumrush @ 06/14/12 11:28 AM

Madden 13 desperately needs this.

Speed rushers in the NFL don't seek contact with OL. Power rushers do.

Get rid of the suction blocking by the OL and allow CPU DEs to rush outside the OL's shoulders.

# 26 speedy9386 @ 06/14/12 11:38 AM

Beautiful football right here man.

http://

# 27 LBzrule @ 06/14/12 11:53 AM

I finally saw this rush script in a Madden 13 video. Ravens vs Redskins video 2 in the videos 2 thread. It looked better than what I saw here in the NCAA demo as both edge rushers did it. IT just set up too slow for my taste. Coming out of their stance the DE's are slow. They need to make that happen a lot more.

# 28 JerzeyReign @ 06/14/12 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedy9386


	Beautiful football right here man. http://

This is a BEAUTIFUL pocket! If there was a possibility of pockets forming like this it'll probably have people standing in there instead of dropping back 15 yards or running to the side. Wow, thats just pretty right there.

# 29 LBzrule @ 06/14/12 12:20 PM

I know you guys are not going to want to suffer through a lot of this video. Luckily you'll only need to skip to the 00:42 mark. What do you guys think of that? My only problem with it on the right side is the initial bounce animation. Left side looks pretty good. I don't like the slow set up though. But the pocket looks ok on this one. This is really what I was after here. If EA can get this pass rush script to play out more often I think it will do good for Madden 13.

# 30 Senator Palmer @ 06/14/12 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyBass


	I don't see how they could do that and have it work without adding in new stuff.

This is just me thinking out loud here, but I remember last year some of the slider guys -- Playmakers, I believe it was -- said that if you changed certain sliders (can't remember which ones) that all of a sudden, these pass rush animations would trigger that for some reason never did on the default settings.

Now to the point that LBz is making: apparently, this stuff if already in the game running under the hood. So the fix could be as simple as adjusting slider values before the game ships so that the engaged movement and pass rush animations the slider guys saw will trigger on the factory settings.

Also to the point of getting the play set up faster. Jarodd gave me a good piece of advise last year about getting the ends up field faster. He told me to lower the speed threshold so that speed of the ends would be more pronounced against the slower linemen. So, again, it might be something as simple as adjusting a speed threshold value. Although, that would have an effect on the movement of every player... so I don't know, but I don't think this is an issue of adding stuff, but more of a tuning thing.

# 31 jfsolo @ 06/14/12 12:44 PM

Yeah, you can see the potential for solid edge rushing in many different clips, but the dev. team just can't seem to get to that next level when tuning the animations. The "bad" interactions still play out way more than the "good" ones.

# 32 Senator Palmer @ 06/14/12 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LBzrule


	I know you guys are not going to want to suffer through a lot of this video. Luckily you'll only need to skip to the 00:42 mark. What do you guys think of that? My only problem with it on the right side is the initial bounce animation. Left side looks pretty good. I don't like the slow set up though. But the pocket looks ok on this one. This is really what I was after here. If EA can get this pass rush script to play out more often I think it will do good for Madden 13.

I really liked the way that looked. The edge rushers looked like they were trying to hit an aiming point once they were engaged. Although, it did look like the Right End (I'm pretty sure it was Suggs) he went right into the Left Tackle at the snap. I'm wondering if that was Madden's version of a power rush, or if that was the way the playart dictated the movement. Speaking of which, is Suggs a power move rusher, or a finesse, because I'm wondering what conditions created this?

I see that it was 2nd and 10 and the CPU was on defense. On 3rd and 10, that's where I would expect things to set up faster, but the 3rd and 10 pass rush looked too much like Madden 12. The rush got stoned right off the line. No engaged movement. The bouncing was there. They didn't get up field at all to collapse the pocket. I'm wondering what's up with that? 3rd down is where I'd expect to see what I saw on 2nd. So does that mean the 2nd down play was totally random? Would the "pass commit" have made a difference there?

I liked what I saw on 2nd down, but it's leaving me with a bit of unease, about which play (the 2nd down pass rush, or the 3rd down one) is the norm, because even in Madden 12 I would see engaged movement in the pass rush triggered from time to time.

# 33 reginald_rush @ 06/14/12 03:33 PM

I have been saying this for years. EA is working on the WR/CB one on one match up, and that's cool, but the real match up that needs attention is the DE/OT one on one battle. That, in my opinion will make the game more realistic. Not only will it help in passing plays, but it will open up draw plays and bootleg plays. What is the point of having a good pass rusher if they are not affective in the game at all. Also, if you have a one dimensional pass rusher, you should be able to take advantage of him by running at him. I'm sure that EA has heard this before and (hopefully) is working on this. I enjoy playing the game, just want it to evolve more.

# 34 BezO @ 06/14/12 04:11 PM

LBz, I remember them changing something similar. Maybe you remember the specifics.

I don't remember if it was your idea or mine, just that we were both talking to Ian about it and the change was made, I think. You know how d-linemen have play art, slanting towards certain gaps, crashing DEs & such? I could swear we got them to code d-linemen, or at least DEs to abandon that on pass plays & try to rush up field.

If that's the case, I don't see how they can't make this same change.

The LSU/Alabama vid didn't look bad. The Madden vid was a bit better. Definitley needs to happen quicker, but I'm not sure if that wouldn't require new animation.

Good post as usual

# 35 dolfanfrank @ 06/14/12 04:30 PM

Is it a known fact that the new physics engine "does not" apply to the OL/DL?

I am a big fan of using dline and OLB to rush the passer and would very much enjoy improvement in this aspect of the game.

# 36 RandyBass @ 06/14/12 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Palmer


	This is just me thinking out loud here, but I remember last year some of the slider guys -- Playmakers, I believe it was -- said that if you changed certain sliders (can't remember which ones) that all of a sudden, these pass rush animations would trigger that for some reason never did on the default settings. Now to the point that LBz is making: apparently, this stuff if already in the game running under the hood. So the fix could be as simple as adjusting slider values before the game ships so that the engaged movement and pass rush animations the slider guys saw will trigger on the factory settings...

If a quick fix is possible, why hasn't it been done already? I'm just not so sure it's as easy as a tweak here or a tweak there.

And if they are going to investigate potential quick fixes, I'd much rather see them try to get CPU controlled ball carriers to not run into so many tackles, because I'm still seeing that in some of the videos and it looks pretty bad when it happens.

# 37 johnnyg713 @ 06/14/12 07:53 PM

Don't they have an offensive lineman on the dev team this year? I think if stuff like this could be easily tweaked then it would have been because I would imagine he knows his stuff and how everything plays out and should look. I imagine next years overhaul will be very impressive, but this year i think what we see is the vids is what we will get unfortunately.

# 38 PantherBeast_OS @ 06/14/12 08:04 PM

@LB I agree with you 100% bro. They need to fix the pass rush in Madden13. I look at some of these current videos. I don't really see no pass rush from the front 4 on the human team. That is why I wish they would fix it before Madden13 goes gold or been put on discs before it ships out. The lack of pass rush on the AI this year will be a killer.

# 39 Senator Palmer @ 06/14/12 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RandyBass


	If a quick fix is possible, why hasn't it been done already? I'm just not so sure it's as easy as a tweak here or a tweak there. And if they are going to investigate potential quick fixes, I'd much rather see them try to get CPU controlled ball carriers to not run into so many tackles, because I'm still seeing that in some of the videos and it looks pretty bad when it happens.

This is just me guessing, but I'm to the point where I'm of the mind that a lot of things in this game aren't better because they honestly don't see anything wrong with the way they are already running.

# 40 RandyBass @ 06/15/12 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Palmer


	This is just me guessing, but I'm to the point where I'm of the mind that a lot of things in this game aren't better because they honestly don't see anything wrong with the way they are already running.

Could be a matter of time too.

I don't know, I guess I fall into the camp that says maybe it's better to just try and get it right rather than trying to fix it with improper tools.

What's that line from No Country for Old Men?

Ellis: Well all the time ya spend trying to get back what's been took from ya, more is going out the door. After a while you just have to try to get a tourniquet on it.

In other words, sometimes it's best to just move on.

And here is that great scene in all it's glory:

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