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12:13 AM - April 30, 2012 by jpdavis82

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# 241 sgibs7 @ 05/04/12 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baller7345


	The reason 15 minute quarters aren't played is two fold. One no one has the time or at least most people don't have the time. Two against your average madden player this is going to turn into a massive scoring fest simply due to how Madden is played and one of the big draws of a league is the stats and team building. Why ruin your statistics by making everyone have seasons that would never be seen in the NFL just to adhere to 15 minute quarters. Now for something you mentioned in one of your other posts. The accelerated clock is one of the more sim aspects except that it doesn't run during the 2 minute drill which almost defeats the purpose of running a hurry up 2 minute drill. It actually simulates the time it takes a team to huddle and call a play as long as its not some extreme number like 10. I personally want it to run for the entire game but as one develop who wanted the same thing in the game said it wasn't a 1 man decision and he lost that year. Outside of the online world I do play 15 minute quarters and while I do that less and less due to how bad Madden's cpu play calling is I'm more than happy to play it that way. I tend to avoid off line franchises unless I'm just going to sim every game because when I do play 15 minute quarters its never a proper score since as I said the play calling by the cpu is horrible.

so then me being a SIM extremist I would say you are not sim and that the way you play the game is nothing close to what we see on Sundays.

you cant ignore the fact that if you want to represent what the NFL is then you need to play 15 min qtrs every game. doesnt matter if you dont have the time - one of the basic building blocks of the game today is the qtr length

# 242 Smoke6 @ 05/04/12 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WFColonel56


	How is no huddle broken for defense? thats news to me..you can audible, playmaker, etc So I cant make you pay for picking the wrong defense and testing me? Ima keep your guys on the field as long as I can. The defense has plenty of options to get me out if it....Make a stop, call a timeout, jump offsides. Like in real life no huddle is not broken for defense. You just have to be prepared to face no huddle and know what your options are.

Yeah, no huddles/hurry ups have been broken, it directly effects the alignment of the defenders as they are all misplaced when they go back to there normal positions on the field. The offense can audible and adjust and hike the ball before you can even playmaker your first 2 defenders to try and stop the play.

Oh and HB draws are flawed as hell too, thats another thing people do online thats very annoying, and you can come out prepared for it and still get burned by it. Whats so damning about it is that when you come out in a pass formation like 4wr snugs or a spread with 1 back, your opponent can be prepared to stop the draw as he knows its coming by the way the offense audibles at the LOS, but he always manages to get 4-5 yrds a carry but if you were to pass, my linemen are in the back field a whole lot faster than there were on the draw from the same formation and being prepared for it!

Yall just play cheap and its that simple, everyone wants to win, but I dont wanna win like that or that bad. playing 75% football and letting people take any risk they want is not very inviting at all, and if you wanna go by stats and history, then its all there for you as the NFL as never had a "risk" season like that all ever!

# 243 sgibs7 @ 05/04/12 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	Please, people were ready to bash sim players the moment the saints did that surprise onside kick. It happened once and will never be lived down because it was successful that 1 time. What have the Saints done since then! Its not that a team is unstoppable in real life, its their execution and the way the other teams takes what they know about them for granted. No one thought my 9ers would have had the record or made it as far as they did this year at all, but each and every game teams underestimated them because of a mediocre QB at the time and it was basically the same squad from the rear before with a new coach. well, it wont happen again and when it came down to it we executed plays people havent seen ran before in quit some time. we were very creative and executed it flawlessly. We baited the defenders that we game planned to bait on certain plays and our wrs executed their routes and the linemen did an outstanding job blocking for the run game. None of that was cheesy, glitchy, or beyond the parameters of the game. Our defenders were right where they were supposed to be and our man coverage took care of business. None of that was pre determined but good coaching and player skill played a great part in that run and for a lot of other teams aswell. That all we want to see in madden. If you want to run the same play all game long, lets make sure there's not some reason outside of your opponent is just not adjusting. Other than that, if its something posted about on the internet that questionable like back in the day with "lead blocking" and people running goaline up and down the field, then that becomes a problem and therefore SIM leagues are gonna adjust to this accordingly. Its like breaching security so we gotta have some strict protocols to maintain our communities integrity and keep people faith in playing football! Its just not fun getting abused by someone who doenst even have the personnel on the field that matches up with your 4-5 wide sets and shutting you down out of a 3-4 with nothing but LBs covering the speediest of recievers!

smoke real quick - did you see the post i made about Chris from smartfootball.com?

did you see what he asid about the Colts in 2006? He said they ran 15 plays all season long and in a few games they ran 4 pass plays and 2 running plays. That was for the entire season

# 244 WFColonel56 @ 05/04/12 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	I have played football up until a 2 yrs ago about 15yrs now, it just pains me to see Finely, Mega tron, and all those other high profile WR just rocket catch in coverage AT WILL! again you cannot RC at will in coverage.....If they Rc'd on you more than likely they were already open anyway Nothing is automatic in the game of football and that should ring true for the videogame version of it too. No one here can go out there full go 3-4 downs in a row or more and rocket catch, spec catch, or just keep running deep streaks with no consequences at all tied to this behavior. With real fatigue to counter this, only a few teams in real life would even try to throw deep like that in the first place or attempt so many. As far as fatigue take it up with the DEVs....You cant penalize a gamer for what they allow to be in the game.. And your wrong about nothing being automatic in football. I can run a curl flat against your cover 3 and the completion is pretty automatic based on how that flat player is coached to play it...Either way he is 1 on 2....no matter what he does the completion is automatic if read correctly In theory EVERYTHING offensively is automatic in theory...coaches dont draw up plays saying it will fail...The thing that stops that theory from becoming a reality is the defense adjusting Usering the safety in madden is like controlling the field, but you cant, the safety often tells you where and when you can throw the ball deep based off of what he is doing for the simple fact that there isnt anyone who but a couple people who can cover the field east and west like that to make plays even when they're clearly out of the play. If you are the safety and you run yourself out of the play you are out of the play..Which is why I never control the deep third safety in a cover 3.. I used to user him back in the day (m09) but not anymore because you cant take false steps and recover in m12 like you could back then. What about the sideline catches that we all know the intended WR stepped out and came back in to catch the ball and its called fair? This is another tactic that most user catchers do online and its very frustrating. Heard it was fixed for m12.....dnt take it as fact but thats what I heard.. But honestly is it a tactic??? really? This isnt past maddens where the DB would follow the WR out of bounds..Nor is it the past maddens where the DB went stupid when they went out of bounds. In M12 the DB is fully aware of the ball... People swoop outside and then inside to get a better angle on the ball..Has nothing to do with it being out of bounds.. That is not a factor at all You shouldnt be automatic in throwing deep over the shoulder passes with great success at anytime, there is no QB that can do that in a real game situation as accurately as you can in madden. We all know of those soft spots on the field you guys like to run your mesh or those crossing routes just past the left hash marks. Thats the hottest spot for most passes in madden and very hard to defend without some kinda of heat to force the pass sooner. You mean the area where most zones break down IRL?????? its not fun to me knowing what will work and using it all game, its a whole lot better of a game when you are busy trying to figure out your opponent instead of coming to the game with it all figured out from the get go! Thats why a game between 2 really good playes know that the other person knows what they know and they cant approach the game in the same ol way and expect to be successful. You see creative offenses and defenses that force you to figure out what the person is doing.

...................

# 245 baller7345 @ 05/04/12 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgibs7


	so then me being a SIM extremist I would say you are not sim and that the way you play the game is nothing close to what we see on Sundays. you cant ignore the fact that if you want to represent what the NFL is then you need to play 15 min qtrs every game. doesnt matter if you dont have the time - one of the basic building blocks of the game today is the qtr length

As an extremist you are in the minority and likely have a bomb strapped to your chest....

I can go and say that banning all types of user blitzes is going against the idea of freestyle since not every single time a guy rushes through the a gap manually is an obvious glitch. I can say that real teams block fgs and that banning fg blocks is against the spirit of doing whatever want because they did put a mechanic in the game (holding A) to try and stop it. I know it doesn't usually work but still I'm being the freestyle nazi in this case. I know there are onside kick rules in some tournaments well how is that holding with the freestyle principle that you have put in place.

We can run the extreme viewpoint both ways.

# 246 sgibs7 @ 05/05/12 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	Yeah, no huddles/hurry ups have been broken, it directly effects the alignment of the defenders as they are all misplaced when they go back to there normal positions on the field. The offense can audible and adjust and hike the ball before you can even playmaker your first 2 defenders to try and stop the play. thats not true - you have 7 seconds every play ot make adjustments regardless of no huddle or not. 7 seconds is pletny of time (with practice to get adjustments done) Oh and HB draws are flawed as hell too, thats another thing people do online thats very annoying, and you can come out prepared for it and still get burned by it. Whats so damning about it is that when you come out in a pass formation like 4wr snugs or a spread with 1 back, your opponent can be prepared to stop the draw as he knows its coming by the way the offense audibles at the LOS, but he always manages to get 4-5 yrds a carry but if you were to pass, my linemen are in the back field a whole lot faster than there were on the draw from the same formation and being prepared for it! blitz 6 guys after the HB and you shouldnt have a issue at all stopping HB draws. Yall just play cheap and its that simple, everyone wants to win, but I dont wanna win like that or that bad. playing 75% football and letting people take any risk they want is not very inviting at all, and if you wanna go by stats and history, then its all there for you as the NFL as never had a "risk" season like that all ever!

smoke do you play 15 min qtrs for every game?

# 247 WFColonel56 @ 05/05/12 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smoke6


	Yeah, no huddles/hurry ups have been broken, it directly effects the alignment of the defenders as they are all misplaced when they go back to there normal positions on the field. The offense can audible and adjust and hike the ball before you can even playmaker your first 2 defenders to try and stop the play. sorry, never encountered my guys lining up misplaced...Maybe my LBs were closer to the LOS but thats it and yeah the offense can line up quick but that has nothing to do with the defense being broken...And you most def can playmaker more than 2 players. If you are paying attention to the offensive formation and know what you need to do Oh and HB draws are flawed as hell too, thats another thing people do online thats very annoying, and you can come out prepared for it and still get burned by it. Whats so damning about it is that when you come out in a pass formation like 4wr snugs or a spread with 1 back, your opponent can be prepared to stop the draw as he knows its coming by the way the offense audibles at the LOS, but he always manages to get 4-5 yrds a carry but if you were to pass, my linemen are in the back field a whole lot faster than there were on the draw from the same formation and being prepared for it! I have been saying the draw is way to effective since month one....guess who at the end of the day falls on again Yall just play cheap and its that simple, everyone wants to win, but I dont wanna win like that or that bad. playing 75% football and letting people take any risk they want is not very inviting at all, and if you wanna go by stats and history, then its all there for you as the NFL as never had a "risk" season like that all ever! You dont have to play with us... The very same point I made at TGL. Gibs,K, and I have more than enough broken down the mindset as well as the reason some players do what they do. And I still stand by the point that you can only use whats the game allows you to do. Point blank and again, you know who that falls on.. But again you dont have to play "us" if you dont want to.

..........................

# 248 sgibs7 @ 05/05/12 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baller7345


	As an extremist you are in the minority and likely have a bomb strapped to your chest.... I can go and say that banning all types of user blitzes is going against the idea of freestyle since not every single time a guy rushes through the a gap manually is an obvious glitch. I can say that real teams block fgs and that banning fg blocks is against the spirit of doing whatever want because they did put a mechanic in the game (holding A) to try and stop it. I know it doesn't usually work but still I'm being the freestyle nazi in this case. I know there are onside kick rules in some tournaments well how is that holding with the freestyle principle that you have put in place. We can run the extreme viewpoint both ways.

thats totally fine taht you think that - (im aware of holding A to try and throw off the timing of the kick).

the rules that are in place for freestyle are there because you cant make a adjustments to your team to stop whats happening - ie fg blocks - i cant pinch my line, i cant hot route someone, same iwth onside kicks i cant make adjustments to stop what they are doing.

the blitzing threw the tackels thing is a colonol thing - im 100% ok wiht blitzing throught he tackles and so was VG.

just as you are frustrated with the 15 min qtr rule - is how i perceive the entire sim understanding.

you can be as sim as you want to make it

# 249 WFColonel56 @ 05/05/12 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baller7345


	As an extremist you are in the minority and likely have a bomb strapped to your chest.... I can go and say that banning all types of user blitzes is going against the idea of freestyle since not every single time a guy rushes through the a gap manually is an obvious glitch. I can say that real teams block fgs and that banning fg blocks is against the spirit of doing whatever want because they did put a mechanic in the game (holding A) to try and stop it. I know it doesn't usually work but still I'm being the freestyle nazi in this case. I know there are onside kick rules in some tournaments well how is that holding with the freestyle principle that you have put in place. We can run the extreme viewpoint both ways.

the onside kick rules basically came from the fact that in years past you could kick the ball in ways that gave you an outrageous chance to get it back (like 90%) and it has stuck around because of it....even if that madden didnt have that issue. Just on the off chance it was in the game

You cant just ban offsides kicks ya know.Its an important part of football. But it also goes with the whole thing of banning flat out glitches

# 250 baller7345 @ 05/05/12 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgibs7


	thats totally fine taht you think that - (im aware of holding A to try and throw off the timing of the kick). the rules that are in place for freestyle are there because you cant make a adjustments to your team to stop whats happening - ie fg blocks - i cant pinch my line, i cant hot route someone, same iwth onside kicks i cant make adjustments to stop what they are doing. the blitzing threw the tackels thing is a colonol thing - im 100% ok wiht blitzing throught he tackles and so was VG. just as you are frustrated with the 15 min qtr rule - is how i perceive the entire sim understanding. you can be as sim as you want to make it

I actually agree with you on the no fg blocking rules and the onside kick rules even if I may agree with them for different reasons (if I play someone I don't want to see them kicking onside kicks everytime not because it used to be automatic). I was simply trying to imply that while you can say that nobody is "truly" sim it can be just as easily said that nobody is truly freestyle/tourney.

Many of the rules such as no moving players and even rules like no huddle and absolutely no rocket catches are actually much like WFColonel said about the onside kick rule, they are simply stuff that has carried over from past games.

As for me being frustrated at not playing 15 minute quarters it doesn't actually bother me. Sure I'd love to play 15 minute quarters if the game could reasonably produce realistic stats and if everyone had the time but it isn't something I'm going to question at its core.

I don't play the game because its a game I enjoy. I play the game because I love football and I want to keep it as close to football as I possibly can. That is my entire basis for playing sim. With as much as I mess around in practice mode I could just as easily play freestyle but I simply can't stand to play that way.

I have nothing against people who do play that way but I do find it annoying that people first response to a new madden involves things like trying every glitch that has ever been in madden (smoke posted a thread from the gamer's lab where many of the members said that was first on their to do list)instead of trying to apply real football to the game. Colonel says that its all on the developers but just because something is in the game doesn't mean you have to use it.

# 251 sgibs7 @ 05/05/12 12:24 AM

i think we have reached the eye of the hurricane

# 252 baller7345 @ 05/05/12 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgibs7


	i think we have reached the eye of the hurricane

That would be because normal people sleep.

However being a person that routinely pulled all nighters when Skyrim was first released and has been known to speed well over 12 hours at a time in practice mode in Madden I hardly know what sleep is.....though really I should be packing my RA is going to kick me out of here tomorrow.

# 253 sgibs7 @ 05/05/12 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baller7345


	I actually agree with you on the no fg blocking rules and the onside kick rules even if I may agree with them for different reasons (if I play someone I don't want to see them kicking onside kicks everytime not because it used to be automatic). I was simply trying to imply that while you can say that nobody is "truly" sim it can be just as easily said that nobody is truly freestyle/tourney. perfect - bc thats exactly what I believe. we are all only MADDEN players and thats it. Many of the rules such as no moving players and even rules like no huddle and absolutely no rocket catches are actually much like WFColonel said about the onside kick rule, they are simply stuff that has carried over from past games. Ok correct them and our update them. Hes incorrect about some of the things he said about those rules. As for me being frustrated at not playing 15 minute quarters it doesn't actually bother me. Sure I'd love to play 15 minute quarters if the game could reasonably produce realistic stats and if everyone had the time but it isn't something I'm going to question at its core. But its not about that - its about simulating a NFL experiance and you arent doing that if you dont adhere to this. Thats your decision taht you dont question it but you are again stating that its ok to side step certain sim standards and rules as you deem neccesary. I don't play the game because its a game I enjoy. I play the game because I love football and I want to keep it as close to football as I possibly can. That is my entire basis for playing sim. With as much as I mess around in practice mode I could just as easily play freestyle but I simply can't stand to play that way. so then you need to start playing 15 min qtrs or else you arent sim at all. I have nothing against people who do play that way but I do find it annoying that people first response to a new madden involves things like trying every glitch that has ever been in madden (smoke posted a thread from the gamer's lab where many of the members said that was first on their to do list)instead of trying to apply real football to the game. Colonel says that its all on the developers but just because something is in the game doesn't mean you have to use it.

dont group me into that subset - thats not what I do or how I play the game

# 254 sgibs7 @ 05/05/12 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baller7345


	That would be because normal people sleep. However being a person that routinely pulled all nighters when Skyrim was first released and has been known to speed well over 12 hours at a time in practice mode in Madden I hardly know what sleep is.....though really I should be packing my RA is going to kick me out of here tomorrow.

you mean its not normal to sit and battle about sim vs freestyle for 10 hours? haha

my video is at 90% upload - almost done.

will post in here

# 255 baller7345 @ 05/05/12 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgibs7


	dont group me into that subset - thats not what I do or how I play the game

I wasn't attempting to group you in that group at all just stating what a fairly large portion of the freestyle players start off with.

You instance that if one doesn't play 15 minute quarters then they can't be playing sim is slightly ridiculous. Can you not play football unless you play 15 minute quarters. I play the game as if its real football or as close to it as I can possibly get. That doesn't mean if I play 8 minute quarters or 6 minute quarters I'm playing the game any differently other than the game will result in less plays. Sim isn't just about adhering completely to the NFL template if it was I'd never recognize the college Air Raid or the college Spread as viable sim offenses unless I was playing NCAA. If Madden had the A11 I'd say go ahead and try to run it if you want. Its more about playing the game as much like football as possible.

# 256 baller7345 @ 05/05/12 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgibs7


	you mean its not normal to sit and battle about sim vs freestyle for 10 hours? haha my video is at 90% upload - almost done. will post in here

HAHA

Posting on a forum in the first place means we leave normal behind. Being very passionate about a game to the point that you sit in front of a computer going back and forth for hours is the point that many psychologist would deem obsessive behavior.

....Its a good thing I think psychology is one of the worst branches of science.

# 257 sgibs7 @ 05/05/12 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baller7345


	I wasn't attempting to group you in that group at all just stating what a fairly large portion of the freestyle players start off with. You instance that if one doesn't play 15 minute quarters then they can't be playing sim is slightly ridiculous. Can you not play football unless you play 15 minute quarters. I play the game as if its real football or as close to it as I can possibly get. That doesn't mean if I play 8 minute quarters or 6 minute quarters I'm playing the game any differently other than the game will result in less plays. Sim isn't just about adhering completely to the NFL template if it was I'd never recognize the college Air Raid or the college Spread as viable sim offenses unless I was playing NCAA. If Madden had the A11 I'd say go ahead and try to run it if you want. Its more about playing the game as much like football as possible.

again another flaw in the sim system.

big fn deal ( i think it was him ) is all about th NFL Simulation aspect - you just want football.

u can play football and not run football concepts - i do it all the time in the backyard on thanksgiving.

so SIM now just needs to be like football and thats it? doesnt need to represent a NFL simulation?

# 258 sgibs7 @ 05/05/12 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baller7345


	HAHA Posting on a forum in the first place means we leave normal behind. Being very passionate about a game to the point that you sit in front of a computer going back and forth for hours is the point that many psychologist would deem obsessive behavior. ....Its a good thing I think psychology is one of the worst branches of science.

my wife has been looking at me like this...

# 259 baller7345 @ 05/05/12 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgibs7


	again another flaw in the sim system. big fn deal ( i think it was him ) is all about th NFL Simulation aspect - you just want football. u can play football and not run football concepts - i do it all the time in the backyard on thanksgiving. so SIM now just needs to be like football and thats it? doesnt need to represent a NFL simulation?

Ok slight correction then, I need organized football. I love learning the concepts that are used by various offenses and defense more than I love Madden. I am past the point I can actually play football (at any competitive level) and while I guess I could coach a Pop Warner squad (I assume, is 23 old enough to coach youth football?) I simply don't have any other outlet to apply all the concepts that I read about.

Madden isn't perfect and not every concept will actually work (I was sad when triple inside blaze turned out to be a blitz concept that doesn't translate) but it still gives me a place to apply what I've learned. In that manner it is my football simulation.

# 260 baller7345 @ 05/05/12 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sgibs7


	my wife has been looking at me like this...

Its probably a combination of that being funny and me being sleep deprived from a week of finals but the visualization of that gave me my best laugh in quite awhile.

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