What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

[Gosens6]

Would love a centralized thread for everyone to express their opinions on DD. I’m seeing the hate for it in every thread on this forum and the consensus I’m seeing is that everyone seems to be under the impression that franchise is bare and neglected because of DD.

My thought process on this whole thing is, franchise mode was barebones and neglected YEARS before DD came along. The Show has always had the weakest franchise mode of the major sports titles (along with Madden, but even Madden 21 and 22 have a better franchise mode than The Show)

I can’t remember a year in which I was really invested in a Show franchise mode because of the awful progression system, and the lack of innovation/progress.

We’ve been asking for years and years and years for an overhaul to franchise mode and we’ve never gotten it. It’s never been much of a priority for The Show, and I think DD is catching all the flack and hate because SDS has never recognized franchise as a priority.

Personally, I think DD is the most fair and fun of all the card collecting modes in sports games today. I haven’t spent a single dime in the mode and I’ve accumulated quite a strong team. Clearly the dev team is stronger in certain aspects of creativity, and franchise isn’t one of them unfortunately.

Let’s discuss, though. Would love to hear others opinions on this.

[Dolenz]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

This should be fun....

But I think you nailed the gist of it. Most blame DD for taking away resources that they assume would have been used to improve Franchise.

[CBoller1331]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

Boy this thread sure is gonna open up a can of worms....well the can is probably already open and the thread will just be a pile of said worms.

Anyway, I think you are right that the big reason for the disdain on this site is that DD seems to be taking much of the attention away from franchise mode. Personally I agree with you that it is far and away the best card collecting mode among sports games. I like DD, but to tend to prefer a true Sim experience of trying to play a full 162 and all the challenges that come with managing a team that way.

Honestly I don't think they need to overhaul DD every year like they have been to keep that fanbase around. I think most fans of the mode are excited by the continual releasing content throughout the year. So from that perspective it does seem like they have taken away some of the creative juices from other modes, and it has shown with the product recently.

[Bonny]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

DD is clearly the focus and the cash cow of the series. I'm not a fan. To me it is just a chase of trinkets and shiny things. It all seems so disposable. Get folks chasing that carrot, keep them online and they will spend money.


Franchise is an afterthought at this point. Even after the loss of Online Franchise, they gave us Custom Leagues. You can't even use custom rosters in that. But you can use DD cards. Everything steers towards DD.


The lack of y2y/roster transfer is pathetic.

[JoshC1977]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

DD is clearly the focus and the cash cow of the series. I'm not a fan. To me it is just a chase of trinkets and shiny things. It all seems so disposable. Get folks chasing that carrot, keep them online and they will spend money.

Just as disposable as a championship in a franchise. Different journeys to get to a nonsensical "end goal". A DD guy buying a card is no different than a franchise guy simming a game.

(I enjoy both modes, but just making that point.)

[Gagnon39]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

You have to keep in mind that we on Operation Sports likely make up less than 1% of the people that play The Show. We are undoubtedly the most passionate fans of franchise mode and many of us are long-time sports gamers that grew up loving franchise mode. It was a mode that was every developers central focus until the creation of online, card-collecting, ultimate team modes like Diamond Dynasty, Madden Ultimate Team, etc. Now developers make literally hundreds of millions of dollars on these modes with virtually no additional development time. Just by simply offering packs and players to be purchased using real money, they make an insane amount of cash every year.

So naturally, as a business, the focus would be on the mode that brings home the most money, therefore leaving us dinosaurs left out to pasture. All we get year, after, year, after year, after year, are minute changes (I refuse to even call them improvements) to our beloved mode.

Meanwhile, the developers we used to love now cater to 12-year olds who have diamond players up and down their lineups for their teams with neon green and purple uniforms and obscene logos on the front of their jerseys. Eventually every game is a battle against all-time great teams (once everyone has played for a few months) and players just quit when they get down and lose. There's no story, no drama, just game after game. And yes, it's fun every once in a while, but it's just not my (or many of our) cup of tea.

So the beef with Diamond Dynasty is exactly that, it has caused franchise mode to be stale, lackluster, and see virtually no improvements for well over ten years now. The frustrating thing is, there's really no hope that it will change. Madden promised this new focus on franchise and it's an absolute sham, that I fell for. It won't happen again.

[Armor and Sword]

What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

I happen to think Diamond Dynasty is a very cool card collecting mode. Very well designed, a lot to do if that is your thing.

Me? I just collect the cards.....that is pretty much it. I can’t stand the way this game plays online so I will never use the cards to “compete” online.

Offline there is simply no interest for me. It is basically grinding and not baseball.

Baseball for me is the story weaved in franchise mode where I own, manage and play as my favorite team/teams and allow my universe to evolve the way I want it to and the way it just happens as well. I play the way I want to play and make no bones about it.

I really have no issues with Diamond Dynasty......but let’s be honest here. The clear focus of this game has shifted heavily to Diamond Dynasty.

I completely disagree with the sentiment that this is a weak franchise mode. On the contrary. I think it is quite good, has plenty of depth and tells a great story.....for me.

Franchise mode for me encompasses things other than....stats. For me it is the player story’s and what is going on around the league. Also The Show has all the CBA rules and features needed to run a good multi year franchise.

Where it is falling short is:

1) Roster expansion - I have wanted to see a full single A level. Which would help the CPU immensely too with our next major issue that has gone untouched

2) CPU Logic - The claim of 21 as it was better......nope it was not IMO. Sorry. Simply no. This needs a much needed overall in terms of lineup logic, contracts, free agency.....it needs a lot of love and yet seems to never ever get it! Why? Why in this day and age we cannot get better CPU management. Why must I be forced to run a 30 team control franchise to maintain lineup integrity as well as undo some doozy trades from time to time? It happens across all sports games make no mistake.

3) Rotating interleague schedules - Come on already.

Diamond Dynasty can’t be taking away so much resources that they cannot work on these things right? The Show’s franchise mode does not need an overhaul.....god no. It just needs some attention.

All of that attention year after year is being poured into DD and now March To October. It is a fact.

They have not given franchise players anything to go gaga over in years.

Have they made small but impactful improvements? Yeah they have.

I did not expect much for 21.....new console, transition year etc. I have always been one of the most positive, enthusiastic supporters of the game.

If the gameplay and design decisions were up to the standards (it was not for me not getting into it) I have gotten used to I would be playing 21 too....no doubt. But it fell short.

And it was not solely because of DD....not going to blame that. But DD has a big impact on the “focus” of the team and I keep hearing well....different guys work on different things etc etc etc etc.

The priorities of the person or persons working on the franchise end.....are simply not aligned with a lot of players at least in these parts (Operation Sports). I don’t need OOTP depth nor do I expect it.

But I expect a little more from the standards they had set in prior years......it just has not happened lately.

My sincere hope is 21 was an outlier for me. I would love nothing more than 22 pulling me right back in because the gameplay is so incredibly great I cannot say no to it.

But why do I feel like that is not happening? My gut usually never lies to me. In fact it never has.

I don’t tread on DD players......the game is clearly geared to those players and it is “their” time.

Plain and simple.

[Madden08PCgmr]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

Its a nice little niche.

I enjoyed my brief dip into MUT, same with DD.

It will never fill the void for me. Not unless the content REALLY takes off.

If you want me to relive/replay the 'MOMENTS' of Juniors career, it will require the Kingdome! It will require the REAL 1995 Yankees roster. Not belting homers off Aroldis Chapman in Safeco. I want an experience. If I want to check boxes, I can do menial tasks at work.

Maybe the'll switch gears someday. Not betting on it in the near future.

I'm content to fire up a retro roster, which much more thought and effort went into.

[JoshC1977]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

I don’t tread on DD players......

I wish more folks had this level of maturity in these parts.

It's tiring seeing miscreants referring to DD players as "kids", "casuals", or other intentionally derisive names. Many (though certainly not all) DD-centric players are diehard baseball fans that love the game but for various reasons, have not embraced the other modes. I'd bet money that many new fans have been created out of the mode.

Speaking for myself....I just enjoy playing baseball games. I'll play DD, I'll play franchise...and have fun. No matter what mode you play, you always "pay" for "the grind" to the arbitrary end goal you set yourself...whether it is time or actual money. Baseball is about the journey; not the end result (whether it be a new card, a stat, a win, etc.)....the folks that don't understand that are generally the ones that spam their miserable musings and are never happy.

[Rocket32]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

Would love a centralized thread for everyone to express their opinions on DD. I’m seeing the hate for it in every thread on this forum and the consensus I’m seeing is that everyone seems to be under the impression that franchise is bare and neglected because of DD.

My thought process on this whole thing is, franchise mode was barebones and neglected YEARS before DD came along. The Show has always had the weakest franchise mode of the major sports titles (along with Madden, but even Madden 21 and 22 have a better franchise mode than The Show)

I can’t remember a year in which I was really invested in a Show franchise mode because of the awful progression system, and the lack of innovation/progress.

We’ve been asking for years and years and years for an overhaul to franchise mode and we’ve never gotten it. It’s never been much of a priority for The Show, and I think DD is catching all the flack and hate because SDS has never recognized franchise as a priority.

Personally, I think DD is the most fair and fun of all the card collecting modes in sports games today. I haven’t spent a single dime in the mode and I’ve accumulated quite a strong team. Clearly the dev team is stronger in certain aspects of creativity, and franchise isn’t one of them unfortunately.

Let’s discuss, though. Would love to hear others opinions on this.

The Show’s franchise mode really isn’t that bad, it’s a pretty solid base IMO. It doesn’t need a flashy drastic overhaul, for the most part it just needs more depth to what’s already there. CPU logic improvements, regression system tuning, and more customization like NBA2K offers, would be huge upgrades. Personally I’m fine without the fancy cutscenes that Madden, FIFA, and NBA2K have, that get repetitive and stale after a while of seeing them anyway.

Unfortunately, the type of ‘under the hood’ work that the current franchise mode could really use to make it strong, doesn’t sell the game and excite everyone like stadium creator and new DD content. I think a lot of us here would appreciate it if it turned out they did serious work on it and you could notice a real difference, but the average group of players aren’t going to be in a frenzy for release day over it.

[TitanUP2]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

Besides people wanting to watch the world burn while seeming having it all.

I think the real beef people are having that extend to most sports games is accepting the fact that offline modes like franchise, as well as support for those modes, which help build the very products they fell in love with crawled in the coffin the day consoles became connected with each other. This due to company's didn't have to ship a almost perfect product & now they could "fix" it with online patching plus that whole online competitive environment box that opened up. More nails with exclusive deals/only one on the block. Then the final nails came & the burial procedures happened when these "Ultimate Team" modes came.

[MetsFan16]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

Oh boy this is going to be a great thread.

I like DD. I also like Franchise. When I had more time on my hands I dove deep into DD and Franchise. As my free time has decreased, these two modes have alternated as my main mode. I’ve played a full 162 in franchise each of the last 5 years. I’ve also made WS in ranked each of the last 5 years.

Some years I play DD so much my franchise gets no love. Other years I’m so invested in my franchise I barely touch DD.

However, In the last 2 years my DD game plan is simple, get to WS as fast as possible so I can play franchise. It takes about the first month, which is perfect because that was when the Full Minors roster came out.

They both have their highlights and drawbacks. With DD it is awfully monotonous and repetitive. With Franchise it’s very lackluster and has been stale for the last couple of years.
I have no desire to “grind” meaningless offline stats for a better card. I will play online but it is so stressful and frustrating I cannot do it all year round.

I’m happy with what DD is, however Franchise needs to be revamped and improved. I don’t think it will be and it’s annoying but I get it. And I’ll still play this game to death like I always do.

[Funkycorm]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

I have no issue with DD. It's not for me but I see why players enjoy it.

Fact of the matter is that there is no evidence that franchise devs were pulled to DD or not. It's a moot point for both sides that use it as their main defense and spit vitriol at each other.

Franchise is not a bad mode. I would like to see some improvements. I don't think the improvements I want to see and haven't seen is a result of DD. I think it is a result of complacency. SDS has franchise set up and keeping it similar each year is that it is comfortable for them.

Franchise mode is deep for me. Like others have said, it is about the stories the game lets us create. The improvements to 21 to franchise mode weren't good in my opinion. It went backwards. Was that the result of DD? No. They attempted to improve it but made it worse. That was subpar execution of their idea. Will it get corrected for 22? Likely not. Again, this is not the fault of DD.

I am starting playing year 4 of my Indians future franchise on 20, which is in the off-season heading into year 2028. Did DD stop me from doing this? Certainly not.

I don't dislike DD players. Everyone who buys the game has the right to play how they want.

Simply put, it's not for me. But I respect those who it is for.

[ryanmc564]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

My beef with DD is that I'm old, and new modes confuse and frighten me.

Really it's the amount of attention it gets, verses other areas. When the PS4 first came out they seemed be all about improving every aspect of the game, having full dedicated streams for each areas improvements. Then those streams that talked about things other than DD, started to get cut short just so they could talk about DD. Last years next gen stream really was a slap in the face for us lucky fools that happen to have a next gen console and was excited to see what was instore for us. We ended up getting glossed over details and then it was on to the DD talk..

[lemarflacco]

Re: What’s The Beef With Diamond Dynasty?

I personally feel that the franchise mode is fun , as is. I do feel like it needs tons of simple logic changes.

Lets not forget SDS did hire TABarnes. He was a poster on here who would go through franchise thoroughly when the game came out and diagnose all the things good and wrong with progression/contracts/etc. So, we know, they have someone capable of testing these things on the back end prior to and post release. Lets hope.

Also don't really understand where people get that they focus on DD at the cost of franchise. I get how it looks because they improved DD and not franchise but DD seems a lot easier to add something new to. There is absolutely ZERO logic that is coded into the mode. Its literally just gameplay, ui, and cards.

Having played OOTP and seeing the huge flaws in logic in that text based game.. I think I've realized that coding logic into a video game and having all teams act in an independent manner is FAR FAR away. None of these games have great logic.

So to start, the trades are HORRIBLE in all the games. Lineup logic is messed up. NBA has teams playing 2 centers like the 80 lakers. Madden has no fatigue. Players are disappearing at the end of seasons. The bengals will draft another qb #1. lol Like maybe these things are jus way harder than we think and because they're all like logic based, maybe it is the hardest to code because everything is connected kinda like a long math equation or doing a balance sheet.

Not trying to "cape" for the companies but after I saw the ootp logic, I changed my opinion. lol here's to hoping we get little fixes to manage these things ourselves like designating Giancarlo Stanton as a 2-6 hitter so the cpu won't lead him off lol or to designating a certain relief pitcher to only be 1 inning guy or only able to pitch 2 days in a row. Maybe even having editable badges with these things could patch the problem,