Shot Aiming = No Consistency

[Kushmir]

So after testing the New Shot Stick Aiming my issues remain the same, I just can't see where it was necessary.

Especially given the Legacy Issues that really needed OVERHAUL like Transition/Help Defense, Passing, the Steal System, Screen Interaction and really fleshing out/providing depth to User Contests and adding a NO SWITCHING option on defense.

What stands out the most tho? Its INCONSISTENCY. You want us to aim for the target right? OK FINE. Is our starting Aim Point picked at random or is it based on the direction/intensity of the defense? Here's Kawhi shooting jumpers in practice where my AP starts left of center....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/C1IznWxnf3w" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

That is until the last shot which randomly starts on the extreme right. Why? Is gameplay just screwing with me? Like, what? That feels like a puzzle game--not basketball.

If the defense was coming from the left with high intensity or if i'm moving right then ok maybe it represents how I have to correct a bit...but i'm shooting in the gym by myself, soooo...what gives?

Worse? The post game which is nothing but intuitive/feel is now turned inside out. Keep in mind we have controls for the different moves we make...and those have to be satisfied first and THEN we have to aim. Errrr...who drew that up? I hate to be that guy but that's flat-out bad design.

An example: Shot Aiming is easiest when pointing down and then adjusting the Aim Point accordingly. Here's the thing, in the post that's fading away from the basket. Which is a rare skill-set:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wGR44PC6NSw" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Ask any post technician, the hook is a staple because the defenders options are limited (remember that fleshed out User Contest I mentioned above?) and I can vary my timing with a quick move that has tons of variety. Most users are gonna try to block it which is the worst way to defend it. But guess what? Hook is UP on the Shot Stick--the complete opposite of the optimal way to use Shot Aiming. Here I just hold up and luckily my starting Aim Point is right on target. But pointing up and then adjusting your Aim Point is super clunky....at some point we're adding lag and user defenders? YIKES.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/MOKj_bPzJmE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Keep in mind i've got no way to see how the defender reacts (which is job #1) because I have to be totally fixated on Shot Aiming. THAT'S BAD DESIGN.

Another great post move is the counter hook. Basically lead the defense one way and then execute the hook opposite. Guess what tho? That involves pointing the Shot Stick right or left...with the Shot Aiming we now have to do all that and THEN AIM before the shooting animation finishes:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/dIeS6t24n0w" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Do you see why elite post guys are asking if the Legacy controls still exist?

Another great post move is the baseline fall-away. Its super quick and its basically you vs the shot meter. But here again, you have to do the command first (right or left away from the defender) and then AIM as the stick is left or right. AGAIN: Bad Design.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/9y9QtG9vy6A" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The Coup De Grace is a move that you can usually setup after hitting a few post fade-aways. The Up/Under...in short after first faking (keep in mind we can't really watch the defender to see if he bites) and then finishing towards the rim and then finally AIMING, i've seen Mortal Combat Finishing Combos that were less complicated. It will have you confused and literally not knowing Up from Down:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/yknNDbdyok0" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In closing, there's no way Shot Aiming was developed with the post game in mind. And that THIS was prioritized over known Legacy issues? NO WORDS.

[Erithtotl]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

What I don't get is they've basically replaced one basic skill, timing, with another basic skill, aiming. From what people are saying timing doesn't matter on aiming. So how this is more 'skill based' I don't know.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

As someone who loves the post, I would have to respectfully disagree.

Not liking it? I completely understand if you have given it a fair shake and learned its nuances. I do however, think there is a fair bit of overthinking and overadjusting when it comes to shot aiming.

This is coming naturally day 2:

https://streamable.com/fxx616

I can adjust to the defender pretty easily and convert without an overabundance of stick work or being overly concerned with the meter. Honestly, I'm beginning to see why Mike is talking about adjustments as people catch on.

- To your shooting concerns

I'm not sure what changes your starting point. I assumed it was where you began your launch on the stick. Maybe Mike can clear that up. There are a lot of times I dont even have to make any adjustments on shots though.

In any event, the option to revert to 2K20 controls is fully available at launch right?

[mb625]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

The bone I'd have to pick here is that those legacy issues are, indeed, improved. I have seen some plain awesome AI rotations off of help defense and some quite good transition D that has shut down breaks for me. A lot of these things seem very well refined.

I also kinda like the shot stick (need to work with it more, but I like it) and think that it kinda works well with the post game myself.

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[pietasterp]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

I'm in total agreement w/ the OP and Erithtotl. To me, the whole thing seems unnecessary and unintuitive. When you shoot a real basketball, of course you're incorporating a lot of variables and data, but it all happens intuitively, it's not like you feel like you're aiming significantly left or right or adjusting in the middle of your shot (most of the time). It's mostly timing, which is why the original mechanism was fine. With this new system, it definitely does feel like they've just replaced a timing skill with an aiming skill, which seems....arbitrary and/or unnecessary.

[Kushmir]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

As someone who loves the post, I would have to respectfully disagree.

I know you do lol. And you definitely did your thing with Lopez [emoji23]...it just feels counter-intuitive and I feel like more and more we're being asked to focus on meters instead of the game world/defender. Gotta be honest....I don't support that philosophy AT ALL. The option to revert to 2K20 controls is definitely a must-have for me.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

I don't necessarily hate the new mechanic. I like that if you're off to the right, the shot misses to the right. It also seems like this might be good for people that get thrown off by input lag online and stuff since this theoretically won't be messed up as much as trying to time a shot would.

I think I'll almost certainly revert to the 2K20 controls if it's actually an option though. I just much prefer not needing to look at the shooting meters when I'm playing.

I also wonder how annoying it will be that if they make all meters visible to everyone online, we'll all more or less know where rebounds are headed on every shot that goes up. Granted with the way rebounding has been implemented in past 2K's, there's very little skill involved anyways, but it is what it is.

[Kushmir]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

The bone I'd have to pick here is that those legacy issues are, indeed, improved. I have seen some plain awesome AI rotations off of help defense and some quite good transition D that has shut down breaks for me. A lot of these things seem very well refined.

Glad to hear it, but those are my floor--I have to be honest. I won't even consider the game without competent Help /Transition defense.

I just can't rationalize this change knowing they probably don't have the option for 2K19 play-calling, a NO SWITCHING option on D, guys tagging out to avoid mismatches, calling plays in timeouts and putting plays on repeat not to mention a fleshed out Contest.

I haven't even mentioned Passing Variety, and giving the game a Risk/Reward foundation overall, but especially in relation to Steals and Blocks. There are just too many Legacy Issues that had priority IMO.

[mb625]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

Glad to hear it, but those are my floor--I have to be honest. I won't even consider the game without competent Help /Transition defense.

I just can't rationalize this change knowing they probably don't have the option for 2K19 play-calling, a NO SWITCHING option on D, guys tagging out to avoid mismatches, calling plays in timeouts and putting plays on repeat not to mention a fleshed out Contest.

I haven't even mentioned Passing Variety, and giving the game a Risk/Reward foundation overall, but especially in relation to Steals and Blocks. There are just too many Legacy Issues that had priority IMO.

I will have to dig deeper on D Settings to know if you can go no switch period or not. It certainly seems like the legacy issues *were* the priority, hence all the Twitter and YT kids complaining that the menus and stuff look the same [emoji23]

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

[ensoul]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

What I don't get is they've basically replaced one basic skill, timing, with another basic skill, aiming. From what people are saying timing doesn't matter on aiming. So how this is more 'skill based' I don't know.

In the my player mode is absolutely matters. You have to worry about timing as well as centering the shot. Going to assume that is the same exact thing for the playground.

[scottyp180]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

Why are people still unsure about being able to revert back to the old controls? This is taken directly from the Gameplay Blog: "But since I know some will ask… yes, there is an option to disable Shot Aiming if you really want to go back to last year’s controls"

Do people not read?

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

I know you do lol. And you definitely did your thing with Lopez [emoji23]...it just feels counter-intuitive and I feel like more and more we're being asked to focus on meters instead of the game world/defender. Gotta be honest....I don't support that philosophy AT ALL. The option to revert to 2K20 controls is definitely a must-have for me.

Mike said in his blog reverting to 2K20 was an option. Let's hope there aren't any limitations attached to it or anything.

For me, its just switching out one mechanic for another. It's new, theres a learning curve, but I feel like with anything to will become second nature. I'd focus no more on it than I do the bar we already have. Keep in mind I HATED 2K17s aiming mechanic.

We'll have to see how it turns out in the final product, but I'd say there's even potential to overcome things like latency, not having to worry about bars speeding up from game to game with this mechanic.

Either way, I think its important to give it more than a day.

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

The penalty for being slightly off center is pretty wild also. I haven't made a jumper yet in the quick games, but more importantly, I got to the free throw line and missing the perfect center ever so slightly = 15-40% chance of making the free throw depending on the shooter. It was 15% on one of my free throws with Giannis (granted he's a bad FT shooter, but this was just for being slightly left or slightly right) and it was 40% for Wes Matthews. That seems way too drastic of a penalty for using this new mechanic.

In the my player mode is absolutely matters. You have to worry about timing as well as centering the shot. Going to assume that is the same exact thing for the playground.

You don't have to worry about timing. There's just an additional boost for you if you do both. But as long as you don't touch the triggers that lock in the timing, timing won't impact your shot at all.

[pietasterp]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

My initial impressions of playing the demo are that the new shooting mechanic make the game overly focused on the 'mini-game' of meter timing, almost to the exclusion of everything else going on in the game. It's basically become a golf game (which I love, for the record!) where the meter is the only thing that matters in the entire game.

That may work fine for a lot of people, and for some may be a big improvement. I'm not really an NBA2K vet (2K20 is the first one I've owned since 2K12 or something) or a die-hard, and I really enjoy the strategy and execution of interesting plays more than the 'fighting game' aspect of memorizing dribble move combos or 50 different stick/button combos for cool 1-on-1 moves. I like skill to come into play, but for me this is a bit too far for something as basic as shooting the basketball.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Shot Aiming = No Consistency

The penalty for being slightly off center is pretty wild also. I haven't made a jumper yet in the quick games, but more importantly, I got to the free throw line and missing the perfect center ever so slightly = 15-40% chance of making the free throw depending on the shooter. It was 15% on one of my free throws with Giannis (granted he's a bad FT shooter, but this was just for being slightly left or slightly right) and it was 40% for Wes Matthews. That seems way too drastic of a penalty for using this new mechanic.



You don't have to worry about timing. There's just an additional boost for you if you do both. But as long as you don't touch the triggers that lock in the timing, timing won't impact your shot at all.

Free throws I 100% agree on. I'll be going button for those. The penalty for being off center feels 2x worse than shots.

I cant even imagine how how aiming works for someone with a really quick release like Marion.