All-Time Teams: some observations

[Oroboros]

I went over the rosters yesterday and posted the following observations for each team at another forum (Inside Hoops).

Atlanta Hawks. Strong line-up, though I'd bring in Horford for Mutombo if I'm playing a small-ball lineup and help speed up the offense, move the ball and stretch the floor. Mutombo was effective only against strictly halfcourt offenses, especially those that feature heavyweights at center. Replace "Iso-Joe" Johnson with Maravich to push the offense at near hyperspeed levels, but make sure he's always surrounded by strong defensive players like Rivers, Augmon, etc., to offset his weak defensive abilities.

Boston Celtics. Replace Pierce with McHale, move Bird up to small forward. Switch in Jones for Havlicek, because Jones was the superior shooter and off the ball gunner. Havlicek needs to play in a motion offense and is somewhat a duplicate player with Bird. Use Havlicek in small-ball lineups, as well as Pierce, but always leave the supremely intelligent Bill Russell on the floor. Garnett, Allen, Rondo, Walker, Parish, Cowens all deserve their own teams because they aren't getting on the floor except in emergency situations.

Brooklyn Nets. I'm surprised there's no Darryl Dawkins, who peaked after the Sixers traded him to the Nets. He would be a much better option at center than Lopez, who's not half bad himself, but doesn't deserve to start next to extraordinary athletes like Kidd and Doctor J. For Small Ball lineup, move the ABA Doctor J to the big forward spot, and have Vince Carter take his wing spot. Bring in Kenyon Martin at the 5 spot to add a fourth running mate for the immaculate Kidd's floor command. For the halfcourt offense, play Anderson, Johnson, Petrovic, Williams and Lopez.

Charlotte Hornets. I'm not sure about Kemba Walker as the starting point guard for a halfcourt centric team. I would go with Bogues or Davis over him in order to run the offense with Grandmama and Mourning. For small ball, play Walker with Rice and Curry, bring in Jackson and play PJ Brown at the 5 spot.

Chicago Bulls. Peak Derrick Rose is great, but he's not a good point guard. Leave him on the bench as a sixth man, start BJ Armstrong to play off the ball because Jordan and Pippen will dominate it in that triangle offense. The powerful Sloan and Love duo should play with Noah and Butler, with MVP Rose to provide an effective alternative to the MJ brand. To combat small-ball lineups, have Deng play the 4 spot and move Rodman to center. Switch him with Grant if you need extra scoring and floor spacing.

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[Oroboros]

Re: All-Time Teams: some observations

Con't

Cleveland Cavaliers. Mark Price is probably the better option to play off LBJ, because he is more willing to move the ball rather than hunt for shots. So move Irving to the sixth man spot, have Ron Harper take his place next to LBJ. Bench Ilgauskas, bring in Larry Nance to play the 4 spot. Daughtery is a great halfcourt player, but he's too slow to play man defense consistently. Bench him in small ball situations, bring in Austin Carr to stretch the floor, though he didn't shoot much from the 3 in the early 80s. Plenty of scoring options to surround LBJ: Brandon, World B. Free, Russell, Ehlo. Love is definitely better than Hill and Varejao at scoring, but not much else.

Dallas Mavericks. Since this was pre-MVP Nash, Harper is the better choice at the point. However, Blackman, Aguirre are interchangeable with Finley, Jackson, Mashburn. Always play Nowitski. Dump Bradley for the superior Chandler, who can actually defend and score off lobs in traffic. However, there's not enough muscle and rebounding - Haywood and Perkins aren't good enough to hold their own versus the real monsters elsewhere. High scoring but weak on defense and at rebounding.

Denver Nuggets. Fat Lever was the Russell Westbrook of the 80s. He could pass, rebound, score with the best of them, so I'd like him there over Iverson, who can only score at this late stage in his career, which makes him the ideal sixth man. Thompson and English are nice, whereas Anthony wasn't strong enough to play the 4 spot consistently except in small-ball lineups. Leave Anthony on the bench next to Iverson, bring in the young pre-knee injury McDyess to start next to Issel. Plenty of options to play small ball if should the need arise (Vandeweghe, Excel, Abdul-Rauf, Ellis, Anthony).

Detroit Pistons. I would stick with the legendary Bad Boys lineup (Thomas, Dumars, Rodman, Laimbeer) but leave Hill at the 3 spot. If he's not hitting from outside, which wasn't his strength, go with either Bing or Stackhouse. Then bring Billups, Hamilton, Wallace, and play them with Debusschere, Vinnie Johnson. Hey, where's Adrian Dantley?

Golden State Warriors. Sweet. Fancy. MOSES. This embarrassment of riches could contend with the very greatest of all-time teams in LA and Boston. But first you would have to replace Mullin with the superior Durant, who was every inch the equal shooter, but the better scorer, rebounder, defender, etc. Rick Barry was probably better than Durant, but he can't play the 4 spot, not even next to Chamberlain. I would move Barry to the sixth man spot, have him play a fast line-up with Davis, Sprewell, Thurmond, Richmond. With Chamberlain in the middle, all you really need are shooters and passers on the outside: Curry, Thompson, Durant, and Green.

More later

[Oroboros]

Re: All-Time Teams: some observations

con't

Houston Rockets. We cannot play Hakeem next to Yao Ming, sorry. Ming is an excellent center, willing passer, diligent defender, and a great scorer, but his lack of foot speed will seriously slow down the offense and be a huge liability versus small-ball. And neither can Harden and McGrady co-exist, so one of them has to give up their spot. If Harden can play off the ball, he gets to start, and McGrady moves to the sixth man spot. Murphy was their best PG, a relentlessly aggressive quicksilver guard, so he gets to start. Drexler was past his prime at this stage, but he can play small forward - the Rockets don't have much alternative other than a young Robert Horry. I would bring in Smith, Maxwell, Horry and Drexler to surround Hakeem to destroy small-ball lineups. Or go with Beverly, Harden, Mobley, Horry, Hayes to throw a monkey wrench in anyone's plans. To counter traditional and big-lineups, I would start Francis, McGrady, Drexler, Hayes, Sampson or Ming. Truly a hyperflexible team.

Indiana Pacers. Jackson was a solid point guard, but I would go with Jalen Rose over him, due to a superior versatility. No way in hell can Artest play shooting guard - he was an oversized "power" small forward. George should start, so Artest is the logical choice to play only if you're facing a team that is built around their small forward. Person's superior range will help at the off guard spot. The pre-NBA McGinnis was a beast and could be even better than O'Neal, so they are interchangeable. Smits was a nice scorer but too soft to rebound or defend, so bring in Hibbert instead. Going small would require moving O'Neal to the 5 spot, and bringing in a third swingman like Schrempf. Solid all-around, but no threat to win the all-time tournament.

Los Angeles Clippers. Paul is the perfect halfcourt PG, and even though the halfcourt-centric game of Maggette seemed like a perfect fit, he wasn't great off the ball. Bench him for Harper or Gordon. McAdoo was a great shooter and scorer, but probably not a perfect fit at the 3 spot, so I'd play the hyperintelligent Manning there instead. Griffin was better with a running team, so leave him on the bench and play McAdoo instead with Paul. World B. Free would run the ball, meaning he's better with athletes in Griffin, Richardson, Harper, and Miles.

Los Angeles Lakers. Who did they leave off? You will have to play only one at the guard spot: Bryant or West, because neither could really play small forward. They are about the same so you can't lose either way. But you can't start Baylor at the small forward spot, because that shrunk the floor a bit cuz he was not a great outside shooter beyond 16 feet. Start Worthy here instead. Can't play Abdul Jabbar with O'Neal cuz opposing teams will exploit their lack of lateral defense on the perimeter all day long. I'd alternate between O'Neal and Abdul Jabbar each quarter, bring in the old Chamberlain to spell them a minute each, and pick up the defensive intensity a couple of notches. That opens up the 4 spot - you could play Gasol here, but that would slow down the offense too much for Johnson, so I'd go with the ultrasmooth Wilkes. Off the bench: Bryant/West, Goodrich, Baylor, Gasol, and Abdul-Jabbar.

[Oroboros]

Re: All-Time Teams: some observations

con't

Memphis Grizzlies. Thin, but they haven't been around long enough to compile enough talent to contend with the other all-time teams. I'd dump Abdur-Rahim for Shane Battier, who was the better defender, passer, shooter, in fact, a much better teammate. Abdur-Rahim was a good scorer on a bad team, so he's better off as a sixth man. Switch Pau Gasol with Zach Randolph, whose physical game was more effective in the playoffs and complimented Gasol the Younger's game more efficiently. Bibby, Mike Miller, Abdur-Rahim, Rudy Gay, and Pau Gasol would be a solid team in their own right, and an excellent change of pace.

Miami Heat. It's probably tricky to play Hardaway with Wade, because they are both ball-dominant guards, but Hardaway can shoot off the ball, so he can cede some of the control to the young Wade. But there's a bigger problem with Wade and LBJ - they are actually duplicate players who can't really shoot consistently from the perimeter. I'd move LBJ to the power forward spot, bring in Glen Rice to keep the offense versatile enough to stretch defenses, and bench Bosh. Mourning was a much better defensive center than O'Neal, so he gets to start. Unfortunately, there aren't any backup points who can run the team when Hardaway sits - perhaps Steve Smith can run the point, but he wasn't creative enough to break down offenses for others - just for himself. Perhaps Majerle can supply enough outside shooting for the bench (Smith, Majerle, Jones, Bosh, old O'Neal)? This is a poorly constituted team with too many power guys, not enough skilled shooters. Even in an all-time team tournament, LBJ still has no help!

Milwaukee Bucks. A few tweaks and this could be the true darkhorse of the tournament. Allen isn't big or strong enough to play wingman, so have him replaced with Pressey or Antetokoumpo. Robertson and Moncrief are great in the backcourt - they have no weaknesses to exploit, and they play off the young Abdul-Jabbar effectively. Play Abdul-Jabbar for 40-45 minutes, rotate the entire bench around his abilities, but make sure he doesn't wear down from the physical pounding. Play Lanier or Cummings over Dandridge if necessary. Redd, Pierce, Jennings are excellent shooters to play off the ball. Let Roberston control the offense, and he will unleash the full athletic gifts of the Greek Freak and Abdul-Jabbar.

Minnesota Timberwolves. Another poorly constructed team. Bench stiffs Love and Szczerbiak, start Towns at center, move Garnett up to the 4 spot. Cassell was a crafty, cunning point, so leave him in there. But Wiggins is just a scorer, and little else, so move him to the wing spot. Start Sprewell, who was much better at complementing Cassell off the ball. Bring Love and Jefferson off the bench for quick scoring, but neither could defend, so pull them quickly. Brandon, Lavine, Love, Jefferson, Rider are solid backups, but Wally was a joke, so leave him at the end of the bench.

[Oroboros]

Re: All-Time Teams: some observations

Con't

New Orleans Pelicans. You realize how bad this talent-poor team is? They added Demarcus Cousins after only a couple of months in New Orleans.

New York Knicks. Bench Houston for Debusschere, who was by far the superior defender. Houston can run off picks and hit shots, but little else, so he's more of a liability the more you play him. Anthony wasn't as good as Bernard King, so bench him for the more unstoppable scoring force. Willis Reed was probably too slow to play at the 4 spot, so move him to either center or back Ewing up. Ewing was probably the better defender, but Reed was more physical and more clutch. You can go with either one regardless. Stoudemire was a good scorer, but if I need rebounding and defense, Oakley would be the better option to start at the four spot. Off the bench: Richardson, Houston, Anthony, Stoudemire, Ewing. Not bad, but not enough to counter the stronger all-time teams.

Oklahoma City Thunder. I keep forgetting this used to be the Seattle Sonics. Yes, Payton would be a great pick, but we can't get away with both Payton and Westbrook at the point. Perhaps in situational offenses, in a hyper-small-ball lineup, sure. But to start, I'd have to stick with Payton, move Allen, Durant, and Kemp all up a spot, and play Sikma at the 5 spot. Play Westbrook as the sixth man, pair him with Dennis Johnson, Dale Ellis, McDaniel or Schrempf, and Ibaka. Now that is one hell of a small-ball lineup.

Orlando Magic. Sure, this is loaded with talent. But I wouldn't start two perimeter-challenged players in Hill AND Howard. Nick Anderson or Dennis Scott at the 3 spot, and Horace Grant at the 4 spot would complement the young Shaq more effectively by keeping defenses honest. Then, bring off the bench Francis or Nelson, Hill, Shaw, Outlaw, and Howard. Then again... without Rashard Lewis... Perhaps there isn't enough shooting on the roster to maintain flexibility in all situations.

Philadelphia 76ers. I'm not sure if Iverson would be a good fit with the starters Greer, NBA-fied Doctor J, and Chamberlain in his prime. Those three are halfcourt-centric players, and Iverson was more uptempo. That means I'd start Cheeks over Iverson, replace Cunningham with a true power forward like McGinnis or Dawkins. When they need to go small, bring in Iverson, replace Greer with Hawkins, play Cunningham next to the Doctor, but always leave in Chamberlain. You ain't playing Embiid - he'll still get hurt!

[Oroboros]

Re: All-Time Teams: some observations

Con't

Phoenix Suns. No Charles Barkley? Hopefully the game will allow us to download a perfectly crafted custom-made Barkley. Some of the CAP artists here at Operation Sports were better than the actual NBA2k creators. Anyway, Nash is great, but I'd start Hornaceck or Majerle over Westphal, who was more of a scorer than a shooter that is better suited to play Nash's Seven Seconds or Less style. I would bring in Connie Hawkins, move Marion to the 4 spot so they can rebound and terrorize as double wingmen. Leave Armare Stoudemire at the 5 spot cuz he was great running the floor. Kevin Johnson, Westphal, Ceballos, Nance, Chambers would be excellent off the bench, and good enough to play heavy minutes. But their lack of size and rebounding will prevent them from seriously contending - unless someone adds Barkley to put them over the top.

Portland Trailblazers. I'm not sure about Kersey in the starting lineup, though he was a great wingman on those early 90s Blazers teams. If I could get away with it, I'd start Porter next to Lillard, move Drexler up a spot, let Aldridge and Walton complement one another up front. Then bring Strickland, Vandeweghe, Batum, Randolph and Sabonis off the bench. Where's Rasheed Wallace, indeed? He would make this team strong enough to contend with the true heavyweights.

Sacramento Kings. Solid roster all around. I'm not sure Lucas would be effective as an undersized center - he won't neutralize any of the true behemoths down low, and his ability to take them outside will not be effective unless the entire team ran small-ball offense consistently. Screen and fade at the three all day long! I would start Cousins at center with Robertson controlling the offense, and Stojakovich and Richmond stretching the floor, and Webber adding a versatile element of a second ball handler will free up Cousins a bit. Then bring Tiny Archibald, Christie, Gay, Lucas and Divac off the bench.

San Antonio Spurs. Nearly perfectly constructed starting line-up. I would always try to leave in either Robinson or Duncan on the floor at all times. For the bench, I'd go with Johnson and Ginobili in the backcourt, Elliot and Aldridge with Gilmore up front. We can go with Green, Del Negro, Horry and Leonard with Rodman to play small ball. Pop will experiment with 12 different lineups.

[Oroboros]

Re: All-Time Teams: some observations

Concluded

Toronto Raptors Another talent poor team, if only marginally better than the Grizzlies. Not enough roster flexibility, no legitimate small forwards or centers to counter the rest of the all-time teams.

Utah Jazz. I'm not sure if Maravich is a good fit next to Stockton, because he was a ballhandling wizard, and he wouldn't get to see the ball except in scoring positions. Move him to the bench where he can focus on running the offense. Bring in Hornacek instead - he complemented Stockton quite well on those late 90s Jazz teams. Dantley was a great halfcourt scorer, and would work well with Stockton and Malone - they would improve Coach Sloan's offense to several degrees higher than it has ever reached. Eaton was an excellent interior defender, but he couldn't play heavy minutes, so I'd bring in Gobert to soak up more minutes when the Jazz didn't face a powerful center. AK47 steps in for Dantley if there was a powerful scoring small forward to defend. Lots of options here.

Washington Wizards. Monroe was the superior scorer to Brady Beal, but Wall plays with Beal better, because he himself did not have a consistent perimeter shot. Move the Pearl to the bench, have him play with Webber and Strickland. The old post-injury King was a good perimeter shooter, and would play well with either Hayes or the young Webber. However, there are way too many shooting guards and not enough swingmen (Monroe, Beal, Hughes, Chapman, Hamilton versus Otto Porter).

Thanks for reading, and I'm looking forward to September 15th.

[Ivysaur]

Re: All-Time Teams: some observations

Goran Dragic really should've been included on the All-Time Heat team, at least to have another point guard on there.

[Oroboros]

Re: All-Time Teams: some observations

Goran Dragic really should've been included on the All-Time Heat team, at least to have another point guard on there.

No question.

Hopefully those all-time teams are editable to get around such roster limitations and missing players like Charles Barkley, Reggie Miller, Moses Malone, etc.

[SonicMage]

Re: All-Time Teams: some observations

Goran Dragic really should've been included on the All-Time Heat team, at least to have another point guard on there.

Chalmers deserves it a bit more than Dragic, in terms of longevity and being part of winning teams, but both should be there when it comes to All-time Heat point guards.