Contested Shot Attribute on Moving Shots

[Eom85]

Does anyone know if the Contested Shot Attributes (2 and 3 pointer) come into effect when doing a "defended" moving shot (pull up, step back etc.)???
Since the animations during moving shots never change, I was wondering if there is a relation!?

I am building a Shot Creator and was thinking about leaving the 2 and 3 pointer categories completely out, since I am always doing moving shots.

Any thoughts?

[Stokes]

This would be a good one for 2K lab. They proved that standing midrange has little to no effect on moving, so I would bet that contested is just for standing shots as well, and that moving is the predominate stat used when the shooter is moving. It makes logical sense, but it begs to actually be tested with 400 contested moving jumpers at 25 and 99 contested rating.

http://www.nba2klab.com/shooting-attributes/

[Beluba]

Quote: Originally Posted by Stokes

This would be a good one for 2K lab. They proved that standing midrange has little to no effect on moving, so I would bet that contested is just for standing shots as well, and that moving is the predominate stat used when the shooter is moving. It makes logical sense, but it begs to actually be tested with 400 contested moving jumpers at 25 and 99 contested rating. http://www.nba2klab.com/shooting-attributes/

This is correct. moving jumpers use the moving shot attributes to calculate percentages. The contested attributes are only used for standing shots and aren't factored in when doing pullups, stepback J's, etc.

[harryl]

Quote: Originally Posted by Beluba

This is correct. moving jumpers use the moving shot attributes to calculate percentages. The contested attributes are only used for standing shots and aren't factored in when doing pullups, stepback J's, etc.

This is confusing. The logical inference from this is that a defender's contest doesn't affect a moving shot.

If there is a standing shot rating and a contested shot rating, and the contested shot rating is only for contested standing shots, then it suggests that a defender's contest "converts" a standing shot to a contested (standing) shot.

Presumably, contested shots have their own set of probabilities, calculated from a synthesizing of the contested shot rating, the quality of the release, and the quality of the contest.

But since there is no "contested moving shot," how does a moving shot get affected by a defender's contest if, in fact, it does at all? If the contest affects the shot, and this can be calculated without a "contested moving shot" rating, then why not do it this way with standing shots?

So...for a moving shots that are contested...is the contest irrelevant unless it becomes a block?

[infemous]

Quote: Originally Posted by harryl

This is confusing. The logical inference from this is that a defender's contest doesn't affect a moving shot. If there is a standing shot rating and a contested shot rating, and the contested shot rating is only for contested standing shots, then it suggests that a defender's contest "converts" a standing shot to a contested (standing) shot. Presumably, contested shots have their own set of probabilities, calculated from a synthesizing of the contested shot rating, the quality of the release, and the quality of the contest. But since there is no "contested moving shot," how does a moving shot get affected by a defender's contest if, in fact, it does at all? If the contest affects the shot, and this can be calculated without a "contested moving shot" rating, then why not do it this way with standing shots? So...for a moving shots that are contested...is the contest irrelevant unless it becomes a block?

interesting question.

I personally think they only created a contested shot rating to differentiate shooters like curry from Kelly Oubre.

3 point rating is there to determine the range, while the contest is to determine the quality from that range (at least in players' minds, not necessarily mechanics)

Is a moving 3 point shot ever really a good shot?

[SirGaryColeman]

Quote: Originally Posted by Beluba

This is correct. moving jumpers use the moving shot attributes to calculate percentages. The contested attributes are only used for standing shots and aren't factored in when doing pullups, stepback J's, etc.

Any chance all of these calculations will ever be published online?

With eSports coming, you'd think it'd be mandatory. If some people know way more about the game than everyone else, it gives an unfair advantage.

Plus, it'd just be really nice to finally know.

[Eom85]

Quote: Originally Posted by SirGaryColeman

Any chance all of these calculations will ever be published online? With eSports coming, you'd think it'd be mandatory. If some people know way more about the game than everyone else, it gives an unfair advantage. Plus, it'd just be really nice to finally know.

This is actually the very first thing that came to my mind when hearing about the e-league.

Don't they absolutely have to be 100% transparent when it comes to game mechanics!?

I mean, it would be very nice but I don't see 2K giving away all these infos.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Beluba]

Quote: Originally Posted by harryl

This is confusing. The logical inference from this is that a defender's contest doesn't affect a moving shot. If there is a standing shot rating and a contested shot rating, and the contested shot rating is only for contested standing shots, then it suggests that a defender's contest "converts" a standing shot to a contested (standing) shot. Presumably, contested shots have their own set of probabilities, calculated from a synthesizing of the contested shot rating, the quality of the release, and the quality of the contest. But since there is no "contested moving shot," how does a moving shot get affected by a defender's contest if, in fact, it does at all? If the contest affects the shot, and this can be calculated without a "contested moving shot" rating, then why not do it this way with standing shots? So...for a moving shots that are contested...is the contest irrelevant unless it becomes a block?

The shot attributes are just the base value we use for a given player based on the context of the shot. Bonuses for being open, as well as penalties for being contested, then modify the base value. We were seeing a much greater disparity between players who were excellent knockdown shooters when left completely alone vs. when they were contested... which required the splitting off of open vs. contested standing jumpers. The stats didn't show that same disparity (for the most part) for shots off the dribble. In other words, if a guy was terrible shooting off the dribble, he was terrible whether open or contested. So we agreed that the single rating was sufficient. Sure, there are outliers here and there, but not enough to warrant the addition of yet another shot attribute. There are downsides to having too many attributes.