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M17 XP Slider Discussion

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  • Aestis
    AWFL Commish
    • Feb 2016
    • 1041

    #1

    M17 XP Slider Discussion

    Haven't seen a thread dedicated to this and feel it merits its own discussion.

    I'm very curious to see how leagues are leaning. I'm philosophically of the belief that if everyone feels XP is a bit low, it's probably just right. I also believe some of the issues from M16 were problems from the narrow type of player that was generated in the draft classes and not a thing that could be fixed by XP sliders (e.g. in the case of CBs, with base sliders it was realistically impossible to develop any studs into 95 MCV guys... but if you cranked up XP sliders, there would be WAY too many 95 MCV guys). Luckily it seems as if M17 has either fixed or helped the player generation issue.

    SO:

    My initial thoughts are that progression feels much easier in M17. It's slightly tougher to supercharge a single player, but I'm not convinced they don't end up with more XP over the course of a single season. Meanwhile all your backups are getting XP. Huge net gain. The only position groups I'm leery of are:
    • QB: Feels like it *might* be a tad high. Then again you are giving up an entire position group to develop this one guy, so perhaps it's fine. I'm leaning toward the 90-100% range.
    • Offensive Line: WOW, the XP costs for blocking have skyrocketed exponentially. A 2nd round (IRL or actual 2nd round) Normal dev prospect *might* see a single blocking point upgraded over the course of his rookie season if you take some time to get AWR up to a respectable level first. Feels like a strong prospect coming out as an 85/81 might take a few entire seasons just to reach 87/84. Meanwhile pass rushers are not nearly as difficult to get to 90+ PMV, FMV, or BSH. So this is the main area I'm curious about pumping up the XP a lot... as in 200% and possibly even more.


    One major caveat I'm concerned about with inflating OL XP is keeping in-game OL vs DL mechanics balanced. I'm making the assumption that the overall RBK & PBK league talent levels should be roughly equivalent to the overall PMV/FMV/BSH levels, but that may not necessarily be true this Madden. Perhaps the game is balanced such that 85 PBK matches up well enough with 92 PMV, for instance, and inflating XP so that 90-95 PBK is attainable for a few elite players throws things out of whack. Though I doubt that, since existing elite guys such as Joe Thomas are in the mid/high 90s in PBK & RBK.

    Thoughts on XP sliders and OL progression in particular?
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  • ThatMichiganFan
    Pro
    • Apr 2014
    • 801

    #2
    Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

    Originally posted by Aestis
    Haven't seen a thread dedicated to this and feel it merits its own discussion.

    I'm very curious to see how leagues are leaning. I'm philosophically of the belief that if everyone feels XP is a bit low, it's probably just right. I also believe some of the issues from M16 were problems from the narrow type of player that was generated in the draft classes and not a thing that could be fixed by XP sliders (e.g. in the case of CBs, with base sliders it was realistically impossible to develop any studs into 95 MCV guys... but if you cranked up XP sliders, there would be WAY too many 95 MCV guys). Luckily it seems as if M17 has either fixed or helped the player generation issue.

    SO:

    My initial thoughts are that progression feels much easier in M17. It's slightly tougher to supercharge a single player, but I'm not convinced they don't end up with more XP over the course of a single season. Meanwhile all your backups are getting XP. Huge net gain. The only position groups I'm leery of are:
    • QB: Feels like it *might* be a tad high. Then again you are giving up an entire position group to develop this one guy, so perhaps it's fine. I'm leaning toward the 90-100% range.
    • Offensive Line: WOW, the XP costs for blocking have skyrocketed exponentially. A 2nd round (IRL or actual 2nd round) Normal dev prospect *might* see a single blocking point upgraded over the course of his rookie season if you take some time to get AWR up to a respectable level first. Feels like a strong prospect coming out as an 85/81 might take a few entire seasons just to reach 87/84. Meanwhile pass rushers are not nearly as difficult to get to 90+ PMV, FMV, or BSH. So this is the main area I'm curious about pumping up the XP a lot... as in 200% and possibly even more.


    One major caveat I'm concerned about with inflating OL XP is keeping in-game OL vs DL mechanics balanced. I'm making the assumption that the overall RBK & PBK league talent levels should be roughly equivalent to the overall PMV/FMV/BSH levels, but that may not necessarily be true this Madden. Perhaps the game is balanced such that 85 PBK matches up well enough with 92 PMV, for instance, and inflating XP so that 90-95 PBK is attainable for a few elite players throws things out of whack. Though I doubt that, since existing elite guys such as Joe Thomas are in the mid/high 90s in PBK & RBK.

    Thoughts on XP sliders and OL progression in particular?
    Nice thread. I didn't get a chance to dive into CFM and test these before my EA Access trial bugged out but I am interested in seeing what other people think about this. It sounds like O-lineman will need an XP boost (according to progression testing), just need to figure out how much of a boost they need.
    GT: minibeast100
    2K18 Advanced Rotations:https://forums.operationsports.com/f...-myleague.html

    2K18 Sliders:https://forums.operationsports.com/f...n-sliders.html

    Comment

    • catcher_0_3
      Rookie
      • May 2011
      • 447

      #3
      Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

      I won't be able to really get into the game until next week, but I'm more interested in this than the gameplay sliders. Mostly because I can tweak gameplay throughout a CFM, but that XP needs to be good from the get go.

      Comment

      • BV28
        MVP
        • Aug 2009
        • 1124

        #4
        Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

        This is a great thread. Definitely interested to see what everyone finds once the game is released and testing has been done.

        Comment

        • tdawg3782
          I hate you Norv
          • Nov 2003
          • 4803

          #5
          Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

          I ran two 10 year test sims last year playing with the xp sliders to try to find some good balance. I'll start today and start running some more. I plan on doing as many as it takes to get a really good baseline. The way I do it is as follows:

          -Use Preseason roster
          -Set all positions to balanced in scheme to get the basic Ovr of players
          -Write down how many players are 95-99,90-94,85-89, and 80-84 for each position and get a percentage
          -Set XP for every 4 weeks
          -Set XP Values (will start with default 100%)
          -Sim 10 seasons and write down new data to compare to base data

          I'll probably have my 1st sim done in a few hours or less.

          Comment

          • ThatMichiganFan
            Pro
            • Apr 2014
            • 801

            #6
            Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

            Originally posted by tdawg3782
            I ran two 10 year test sims last year playing with the xp sliders to try to find some good balance. I'll start today and start running some more. I plan on doing as many as it takes to get a really good baseline. The way I do it is as follows:

            -Use Preseason roster
            -Set all positions to balanced in scheme to get the basic Ovr of players
            -Write down how many players are 95-99,90-94,85-89, and 80-84 for each position and get a percentage
            -Set XP for every 4 weeks
            -Set XP Values (will start with default 100%)
            -Sim 10 seasons and write down new data to compare to base data

            I'll probably have my 1st sim done in a few hours or less.
            Fantastic. Looking forward to seeing your results.
            GT: minibeast100
            2K18 Advanced Rotations:https://forums.operationsports.com/f...-myleague.html

            2K18 Sliders:https://forums.operationsports.com/f...n-sliders.html

            Comment

            • tdawg3782
              I hate you Norv
              • Nov 2003
              • 4803

              #7
              Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

              1st sim is in the books. I forgot how long it takes recordering the data lol. Anyways here we go:

              Rules: 75 Man Preseason Roster/XP Sliders all at 100%/Progress set to Every 4 Weeks

              How to read chart: Base is how many players were rated in each group and +10 Years is how many after simming 10 seasons. The % is just the % of players rated in each group to give you a visual that way. Total is the total amount of players rated 80+.

              QB:100%
              Spoiler


              HB:100%
              Spoiler


              FB:100%
              Spoiler


              WR:100%
              Spoiler


              TE:100%
              Spoiler


              T:100%
              Spoiler


              G:100%
              Spoiler


              C:100%
              Spoiler


              DE:100%
              Spoiler


              DT:100%
              Spoiler


              OLB:100%
              Spoiler


              MLB:100%
              Spoiler


              CB:100%
              Spoiler


              FS:100%
              Spoiler


              SS:100%
              Spoiler


              K:100%
              Spoiler


              P:100%
              Spoiler


              So there you have it guys. Sim 1 in the books and I think we got some good data. My suggestions are what I'm looking for in this game and the may not coincide with yours so you don't have to agree at all lol. Just take the info and do what you want with it. But my goal is to hopefully find a really good base where we can start so all my fellow franchise guys who like to go years into theirs can have an enjoyable experience. And if all else fails at least we can edit everything (Thanks for that EA).
              Last edited by tdawg3782; 08-22-2016, 04:54 PM.

              Comment

              • kwpit79
                Pro
                • Aug 2008
                • 608

                #8
                Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

                Good work! I did the same thing back in Madden 16, but went 20 years in the future to eliminate all the "real" players. Looks like Madden really improved with the QBs progression. Last year there was an overabundance of great QBs in the league at one time, something like 24 QBs with a 90 OVR or better rating.

                Comment

                • tdawg3782
                  I hate you Norv
                  • Nov 2003
                  • 4803

                  #9
                  Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

                  Originally posted by kwpit79
                  Good work! I did the same thing back in Madden 16, but went 20 years in the future to eliminate all the "real" players. Looks like Madden really improved with the QBs progression. Last year there was an overabundance of great QBs in the league at one time, something like 24 QBs with a 90 OVR or better rating.
                  Ya it was real solid for the most part. QBs were way better then last year. To be honest there wasn't that many real players left either. Some of the rookies this year and just a few others. But overall I was quite impressed. Got the 2nd sim running now so should have another update later today.

                  Comment

                  • catcher_0_3
                    Rookie
                    • May 2011
                    • 447

                    #10
                    Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

                    Terrific work tdawg.

                    My question is, do you think there will be a change in your results if you actually played games in this dynasty as opposed to doing a 10 year sim? Or do you think the results would be similar even if you play half the games in a CFM each year?

                    Comment

                    • tdawg3782
                      I hate you Norv
                      • Nov 2003
                      • 4803

                      #11
                      Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

                      Originally posted by catcher_0_3
                      Terrific work tdawg.

                      My question is, do you think there will be a change in your results if you actually played games in this dynasty as opposed to doing a 10 year sim? Or do you think the results would be similar even if you play half the games in a CFM each year?
                      Maybe for your team but I wouldn't think it would alter things to much. Even if you play every game for your team we are only talking 16 out of 256 games. Plus playoffs if you make it. I can't imagine that would make much difference for cpu teams.

                      Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

                      Comment

                      • tdawg3782
                        I hate you Norv
                        • Nov 2003
                        • 4803

                        #12
                        Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

                        Sim #2 is done. Just have to compile data. Should be up in a bit.

                        Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

                        Comment

                        • smoove7
                          Rookie
                          • Dec 2007
                          • 471

                          #13
                          Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

                          I heard that a change was made to make Custom xp progression available for offline CFM in 17, not just online? Can anyone confirm?
                          ..."And there's a frequent bug that turns the receivers' route markers into dancing squiggly lines. None of these problems destroy the fun of running a perfect option play, but they do take you out of what should be an immersive experience."....

                          Comment

                          • bcruise
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Mar 2004
                            • 23274

                            #14
                            Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

                            Originally posted by smoove7
                            I heard that a change was made to make Custom xp progression available for offline CFM in 17, not just online? Can anyone confirm?
                            Yeah XP sliders are in for offline. Millennium confirmed that on his stream.

                            Comment

                            • tdawg3782
                              I hate you Norv
                              • Nov 2003
                              • 4803

                              #15
                              Re: M17 XP Slider Discussion

                              2nd sim is in the books:

                              Rules: 75 Man Preseason Roster/XP Sliders adjusted (details by position)/Progress set to Every 4 Weeks

                              How to read chart: Base is how many players were rated in each group and +10 Years is how many after simming 10 seasons. The % is just the % of players rated in each group to give you a visual that way. Total is the total amount of players rated 80+.

                              QB(90%):
                              Spoiler


                              HB(120%):
                              Spoiler


                              FB(100%):
                              Spoiler


                              WR(110%):
                              Spoiler


                              TE(90%):
                              Spoiler


                              T(110%):
                              Spoiler


                              G(130%):
                              Spoiler


                              C(130%):
                              Spoiler


                              DE(100%):
                              Spoiler


                              DT(100%):
                              Spoiler


                              OLB(90%):
                              Spoiler


                              MLB(100%):
                              Spoiler


                              CB(120%):
                              Spoiler


                              FS(100%):
                              Spoiler


                              SS(90%):
                              Spoiler


                              K(100%):
                              Spoiler


                              P(100%):
                              Spoiler


                              2nd sim is in the books. I think I've locked down most of the positions. Will do another sim when I can to try to nail down those final few positions. Also any input is welcome. If someone has a good idea I'm all ears.

                              What I have so far:
                              Spoiler

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