Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

**phIllypride89** · 01-11-2015, 11:19 AM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

the computer is super accurate with their tackles and they do have good timing. I'm not entirely sure if this is due to an overpowered AI or just due to my skill and using a predictable path in build play. I do find when I'm playing with more agile and pacey players and I use their agility to create space, I get more fouls on slide tackles whereas if i'm using a slower player and playing the ball into a predictable path.

**xicpanad** · 01-11-2015, 11:43 AM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

Personaly I haven´t experienced this in a superpowered way. Maybe its the way I play and maybe that´s why I feel this game is so balanced. I do find it hard to attack but there´s a balance between CPU tackles and my own mistakes/bad decisions. To be honest, this dificulty makes us find other ways to create real chances. Of course if I play with weaker players against a top team its going to be harder, but still I can get lots of fouls. When I have the ball I always avoid too much time with it. Either run with it to space or pass it to a team mate. Receiving a pass is also important, and dependind on the player, I always walk/run in the direction my player is facing first. If I try to control and turn imediatly when in pressure, the CPU will likely take the ball away.

**orion523** · 01-11-2015, 03:00 PM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

There is a simple answer to this, slow down. And by slow down I mean lay off the sprint button so that when the CPU goes for the slide you can use a quick evasive maneuver to either draw a foul or skip right by. Saying this isn't conjecture on my part, it works, but, its not easy. Our first instinct is to mash the sprint button because, well that's what's always worked in the past. Thankfully however that's not the case anymore and smart patient play most times wins out almost always, the trick though is adjusting.

**SpHSpH** · 01-11-2015, 08:46 PM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

I am pretty much anti-sprint already ... I have been working hard over the past few years or so to train myself to play without using RT. I need to get better at the quick side-to-side or darting moves to help me with possession of the ball.

It just seems that in the risk/reward consideration about a slide tackle ... there really is no "risk" for the CPU ... they rarely miss the tackle (which would be a risk since I would be able to take advantage of the defensive player having gone to ground) and they rarely get called for a foul or get a card (which would be a risk in giving me a free kick).

I plan to start another one of my "talking points" threads - one which focuses on the different kinds of dribbling - this might be the crux of what I need to get better at to offset the CPU defensive mentality. If I am "too patient" ... waiting with the ball, looking for a teammate to move toward an open space ... the CPU is able to tackle the ball off my stationary player just the same (so it is not only in situations where I am advancing too quickly with the ball).

Thanks for the thoughts so far ...

**Erithtotl** · 01-12-2015, 11:36 AM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

I feel like the primary way the AI cheats on WC and above is acceleration. Reducing this even slightly results in a lot of the magic stuff the AI does just going away (like the inch perfect slide tackles from behind against a faster opponent in the box). This is because their supernatural accel allows them to cut and react to everything faster as well as make small movements and adjustments. The problem is it also nerfs their offense.

I've been experimenting with playing with the same sliders for myself and the AI, lowering accel and other values for both while increasing shot and pass speed. It seems to have helped somewhat. Essentially I'm playing with sprint speed 48 and accel 49 for both. It does seem to change the way the AI plays on both sides of the ball a bit, though in key matches all their players get insane 'magic' boosts where they suddenly all play like superheroes again. I play 9 minute halves and wanted more scoring on both sides (since 0-0 was my most common result) and this does seem to help a bit.

My biggest problem with the AI cheating is that it results in football that looks utterly unlike anything resembling reality. The slide tackle is pretty rare in the modern game, and slide tackling someone in the box will get you a penalty most of the time even if you do it perfectly. Crunching follow throughs that are legal by the traditional definition are now punished with yellow cards. But in FIFA these aren't just legal, they are commonplace!

I do think this wouldn't be quite as bad if the refs weren't so obsessed with playing advantage. Seriously, a foul 25 yards out in front of the box I want the frickin free kick! Also I've seen advantage played when I have the ball in my OWN box. Insane. Just call the damn fouls. I have noticed that nimble players can draw a lot of penalties from the AI in the box, to the point where playing on vanilla WC, I was scoring half my paltry number of goals from penalties.

**JHedges2** · 01-12-2015, 12:05 PM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

Love these 'talking points' threads. Please, keep them coming. Often very informative to get the 'experts' feedback!

**AJRHD** · 01-12-2015, 07:06 PM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

I agree with a lot of the points said on this thread. At times it does seem that the AI is very precise with their tackling, but you also need to know when to lay off of the sprint button.

**SpHSpH** · 01-13-2015, 12:08 AM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

This is becoming completely unfair ... there are two sets of rules ... one for the CPU and another for the human player ... this is unacceptable. I cannot get an honest chance to possess the ball in the attacking third.

The CPU "knows" if I am going to pass or shoot or cross or take them on with a dribble ... the CPU never "guesses" wrong - it always times the tackle just right. This happens all over the pitch, but it is especially annoying when I am within sight of the goal.

It is not the same for both teams ... the CPU can dispossess my player by simply getting near him ... but, when I am on defense, I can mug the CPU attacker and I still cannot get the ball to come loose. Either tackles should be easy or difficult ... I do not really care which one you choose ... but it needs to be the *same* for both teams.

I am *not* a big user of the RT for sprinting ... I recognize that this pushes the ball farther away from my player's feet ... making it easier for the defender to tackle it away. But even when I am moving only with the L-Stick ... and I am trying to incorporate some start-stop moves (quick pull on the RT while *not* moving the L-Stick for the quick stop) ... the CPU still "knows" when I am changing direction, or when I am waiting for a teammate to make a run, or when I am loading up to take a shot ... and they go for the tackle with little fear of any negative consequence.

I *am* seeing the CPU getting called for an occasional foul ... I am not excellent at free kicks yet ... so that I not helping me on the offensive end. I am just super annoyed that I am not able to have any build-up on offense ... my best option is to hope for a CPU turnover in the attacking third and a chance for a quick attempt at goal. If I try to do anything that incorporates some teamwork from my attackers ... that is immediately felled as soon as I get near a threatening position.

Wow ... this is killing it for me right now.

**Erithtotl** · 01-13-2015, 01:55 PM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

FYI the community sliders are meant to challenge advanced players. They may not be much fun while you are learning the game. I know for me just looking at them, the settings seem to make the AI even better at its magic AI stuff, not worse.

The higher the difficulty you go, the more the AI knows as a team as soon as you've pressed a button. By that I mean they react before the animation even plays out on the screen. This is how the AI 'cheats'. It knows the future and uses its magic acceleration to anticipate things before they play out on screen. This is why I lowered acceleration and marking on the sliders I use for both sides and it seems to help. Of course there are still those moments when the AI goes into 'god mode' (end of game or key matches) and its still a struggle.

**Matt10** · 01-13-2015, 03:04 PM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

I played a match just now, and the AI had 2 tackles on me - I had 21. lol.

As a former player, I hated dribbling - hated it - felt it was useless to my skill set. I was an outside mid in college, forward in pros - and all I did was pass the ball - mainly one touch passes - same with one touch finishes, I was good at it.

So I play FIFA the same way. I rarely dribble, unless I''m isolated on the wings, and I pass back qutie a bit - with a heavy mix of switching from side to side.

The second I pass forward, I use super cancel and move my recepient to the ball and pass it back.

The CPU is tackling you better because you're not protecting the ball. Protecting the ball doesn't just mean dribbling with it, it means passing it around the CPU - which includes backwards. In addition, mix up your passes - send a ball long to keep them honest (much how a QB will send a deep long ball over the defense to keep the secondary honest, or set up a different play).

How often you face up a defender increases your chances to be tackled. Look on TV, there are rare moments when a player is facing a player directly. Often times they are facing to the sides, or backwards - they are protecting the ball - and maintaining possession this way.

AI defending is a lot smarter than people give them credit for. However, without sliders and the increase in acceleration, you give yourself charity opportunities (kick off glitch, bursting, etc) and the only difficulty people have with sliders is that they aren't used to the CPU being a realistic challenge - forcing you to match up to that realism. Realism is how it looks in real life, not how it plays in an arcade game.

The best way to get better is start recording your matches, watch them over, and count how many times you are dispossessed - and then ask yourself what was the reason, and what can be done in the future. You have to be ahead of the game in your mind, just like in real life. Know what you are going to do with the ball before you get it, or before your player/recepient gets it.

If you don't mind, I will post my Twitch streams in here to show what I'm talking about, and can also post videos - with your permission of course. I do enjoy your talking points btw, SPH

**Erithtotl** · 01-13-2015, 04:39 PM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

Not to derail from the OP but: Matt10 I have no doubt you are a vastly superior FIFA player to me and that you've mastered playing with full manual and the community sliders. I'm glad you enjoy playing that way.

But would you agree that they are harder than vanilla WC? What I'm constantly frustrated by is that it seems very difficult to come up with a slider set that can be gradually adjusted upwards as players increase in skill without making the game play totally unchallenging or unrealistic. I played 50+ games on vanilla WC and felt like my game didn't grow at all because no matter what I tried I didn't seem to make any progress. The major difference I can see is that it seems to master the game you have to master micromanaging and fighting it (I.e. super-cancel constantly, order your players to make runs manually, etc), which is not something I really enjoy.

**Matt10** · 01-13-2015, 04:52 PM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

Originally posted by Erithtotl

Not to derail from the OP but: Matt10 I have no doubt you are a vastly superior FIFA player to me and that you've mastered playing with full manual and the community sliders. I'm glad you enjoy playing that way.

But would you agree that they are harder than vanilla WC? What I'm constantly frustrated by is that it seems very difficult to come up with a slider set that can be gradually adjusted upwards as players increase in skill without making the game play totally unchallenging or unrealistic. I played 50+ games on vanilla WC and felt like my game didn't grow at all because no matter what I tried I didn't seem to make any progress. The major difference I can see is that it seems to master the game you have to master micromanaging and fighting it (I.e. super-cancel constantly, order your players to make runs manually, etc), which is not something I really enjoy.

I'll be on Twitch in about 15 minutes, and can show you some of the things I do to make the game more challenging for the CPU. The sliders are designed to remove "charity" opportunities. Meaning, the kick off glitches and bursting are so easy for the user - even on Legendary. Bursting is the worst, where you can easily just slightly move the analog to the side and the CPU will bite, then their recovery is even slower - and you're past them. When I started FIFA 15 sliders this was the #1 goal to combat because it was so easy to score goals by just pushing past defenders.

Vanilla is yes, vanilla. It's not missing much though. This year's game is so much about the sacrifices you are willing to make. The sliders had to do that, we had to increase acceleration so the bursting was gone, and I personally wanted the jogging animation to be lessened, so Sprint Speed was increased. This of course creates a bit faster play and can be chaotic.

I am actually trying to improve some things about the current set as I can see the chaotic defending and CPU defending had started to bug me. Not necessarily because of difficulty, but because of priority. I'll post them shortly in the slider thread and of course play with them on Twitch.

**SpHSpH** · 01-13-2015, 06:06 PM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

I am the OP ... so I will gladly bring this back on topic ...

===== =====
I played a match just now, and the AI had 2 tackles on me - I had 21.
===== =====

Nice. I can sometimes get the tackles to be pretty even - it is not *always* the case that the CPU is beating me 2:1 on tackles - I just feel like the CPU tackles are too good and too frequent - especially as I am *right* about to do something on offense.

===== =====
So I play FIFA the same way. I rarely dribble, unless I''m isolated on the wings, and I pass back qutie a bit - with a heavy mix of switching from side to side.
===== =====

I do keep this in mind as something I want to think about during the match. I want to train myself to do more with passing (forward / change sides across the pitch / play it back to my defenders) to simply play keep-away from the CPU defense. Keep the ball in a position where they are not able to tackle it from me. Easier said than done ...

===== =====
The second I pass forward, I use super cancel and move my recepient to the ball and pass it back.
===== =====

I still have the question about the super-cancel ... is this more of a "pulse" on [ LT + RT ] as soon as you pass to a teammate? Or do you have to keep [ LT + RT ] pressed as you move the pass recipient with the L-Stick? I would like to be better at encouraging my teammates to go more aggressively to receive a pass, and maintain possession.

===== =====
The CPU is tackling you better because you're not protecting the ball. Protecting the ball doesn't just mean dribbling with it, it means passing it around the CPU - which includes backwards. In addition, mix up your passes - send a ball long to keep them honest (much how a QB will send a deep long ball over the defense to keep the secondary honest, or set up a different play).
===== =====

Good suggestions here ... but does the CPU pay enough attention to get "fooled" later on during the match? The QB deep ball analogy only works because the defense adjusts accordingly ... does the CPU defense on FIFA notice what I am doing, so that I can try to "set them up" for something in the future?

===== =====
AI defending is a lot smarter than people give them credit for. However, without sliders and the increase in acceleration, you give yourself charity opportunities (kick off glitch, bursting, etc) and the only difficulty people have with sliders is that they aren't used to the CPU being a realistic challenge - forcing you to match up to that realism. Realism is how it looks in real life, not how it plays in an arcade game.
===== =====

I appreciate the challenge that it takes to beat the CPU with the OS Community Sliders. I want to win (for sure) - but I really want to feel like I earned it as well. I *am* an experienced FIFA player (I have played all-manual since FIFA09). There are always a couple of frustrations whenever I move from one year to the next ... it is just that this year is really giving me some issues, more than I remember from other years.

===== =====
If you don't mind, I will post my Twitch streams in here to show what I'm talking about, and can also post videos - with your permission of course. I do enjoy your talking points btw, SPH :wink:
===== =====

Absolutely - go for it - I love watching FIFA videos (sometimes while I am at work). These threads are mostly a way for me to "talk out load" about things that I am working through with the game ... and I would certainly appreciate any help (video or otherwise) that you can contribute to them. Thanks!

**Erithtotl** · 01-13-2015, 06:38 PM

Re: Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

I must suck, I've never figured out this 'bursting' thing. How does it work exactly?

Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

Recommended Videos

Can we talk about the CPU (slide) tackling?

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment