2013 Regular Season Awards - Operation Sports Forums

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  • Bunselpower32
    Pro
    • Jul 2012
    • 947

    #1

    2013 Regular Season Awards

    Well, it has to be done. The time is near, I may as well get this going.

    State who you think should be MVP, and why.

    Obviously a little biased, but Matt Carpenter. He has done at least everything that Andrew McCutchen has done offensively less the stolen bases. He leads the NL in runs by 16, in doubles by 11, and overall hits by 11. He even has two more triples than McCutchen does. As a leadoff man, he has driven in 4 less than McCutchen has batting number three, and he is only batting 3 points less. And did I mention his 119 runs as of September 17th? The man is destroying the NL. I get it, McCutchen is vital to that Pirates team because they score less runs. But the Cardinals lost their leadoff man late last year, and were in desperate need. They had no one else that could do it, and Carpenter stepped up big time. Given past performance by their players in the leadoff spot, Carpenter has added probably 40+ runs over anyone else who would have led off.

    WAR is a joke. It almost took the MVP away from a TRIPLE CROWN winner last year. Until the effect defense has on WAR (and Carpenter has made some dandy defensive plays, just not in CF) is scaled down, I will not regard it as a true measure of a player's value.

    You want proof? Allen Craig, who was batting almost .500 with RISP and had 97 RBI before going down with injury has a worse WAR rating than Nick Punto, who has played in about half the games Craig has.

    More you say? Wellington Castillo is 21st on the list. I don't see the Brewers trading Juan Segura or the Dodgers trading Adrian Gonzalez for Wellilngton Castillo, both of whom are lower on the WAR list.

    But come on, 119 runs?! Are you kidding me?
    "The designated hitter rule is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws."

    - Rick Wise
  • DrJones
    All Star
    • Mar 2003
    • 9100

    #2
    Re: MVP

    Originally posted by Bunselpower32
    Are you kidding me?
    My thoughts exactly.
    Originally posted by Thrash13
    Dr. Jones was right in stating that. We should have believed him.
    Originally posted by slickdtc
    DrJones brings the stinky cheese is what we've all learned from this debacle.
    Originally posted by Kipnis22
    yes your fantasy world when your proven wrong about 95% of your post

    Comment

    • 55
      Banned
      • Mar 2006
      • 20857

      #3
      Re: MVP

      Originally posted by Bunselpower32
      WAR is a joke.
      Nobody is laughing.

      Comment

      • 24
        Forever A Legend
        • Sep 2008
        • 2809

        #4
        Re: MVP

        For the AL MVP my vote goes to Mike Trout. You look at his overall production and the numbers are just insane. He's 22 Years old, isn't anywhere close to his prime and is churning out numbers that have only been posted by some of the greatest players to ever live. Despite You not liking the WAR Statstic Trout Joined A group that consists Barry Bonds, Albert Pujols, Willie Mays, Carl Yastrzemski and Ken Griffey Jr. by posting back to back seasons with a WAR of 9 of Higher. Each player is either in the Hall of Fame or Will be In the Hall eventually. Trout does not have a flaw in his game. He's the definition of a 5 tool talent.

        The MVP award stands for Most Valuable Player. It's not the greatest hitter award. If it was I would have no issue giving Miggy the MVP. However Cabrera is a complete liability on Defense, and cannot run the base paths at all. The fact that the Tigers have a better record cannot be solely contributed to Miguel Cabrera because Baseball is a Team sport. A player could go 4-4 with four home runs and his team could still loose the ball game. It's not Mike Trout's fault that his team has played Like Garbage.

        Cabrera Will Win the MVP because the majority of old timers who do the voting will give him the Nod. His Team is in the playoffs and He's either first or Second in each of the Triple Crown Categories. But he doesn't deserve it.


        Comment

        • snepp
          We'll waste him too.
          • Apr 2003
          • 10007

          #5
          Re: MVP

          Murray Chase called, you owe him royalties for using all of his antiquated arguments.
          Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

          Comment

          • DamnYanks2
            Hall Of Fame
            • Jun 2007
            • 20794

            #6
            Re: MVP

            I'm not voting for either Cabrera or Trout. Because I don't vote for aliens. So my vote goes to Crush Davis.

            Comment

            • Chip Douglass
              Hall Of Fame
              • Dec 2005
              • 12256

              #7
              Re: MVP

              I guess this thread will encompass all awards discussion.

              The AL MVP, AL Cy Young, and NL Cy Young races are over. Cabrera, Scherzer, and Kershaw will win those respective awards easily. Scherzer and Kershaw should win, so no problem there. Trout vs. Cabrera has been debated a million times and that poor horse has been beaten into submission.

              The NL MVP race is interesting. The traditional stats candidate (Goldschmidt) plays on a non-playoff contender and thus won't win it. McCutchen is the sabermetric candidate in that he accumulates his value in non-sexy, sabermetrically-inclined ways and has underwhelming triple crown stats for an MVP candidate. The same thing applies to Molina and Carpenter. The lack of a strong candidate among position players leaves space for Kershaw and his sub-2.00 ERA. His run prevention has been incredible, but he's won only 14 games. Verlander won 24 games 2 years ago, was perceived by the writers to have had a GOAT pitching season, and still barely won over Ellsbury.

              IMO, McCutchen will win because he has the narrative behind him (franchise player who brought the Pirates back from a two decade long oblivion) and the writers won't give the award to a pitcher with only 14 wins.
              I write things on the Internet.

              Comment

              • BunnyHardaway
                Banned
                • Nov 2004
                • 15195

                #8
                Re: MVP

                If the Orioles make the playoffs, I'd have a hard time voting for anyone other than Crush.

                Shocking, right?

                Comment

                • BleacherBum2310
                  All Star
                  • Aug 2010
                  • 7107

                  #9
                  Re: MVP

                  AL: It's Trout. I mean He's the best player in Baseball. Standings really don't factor in this for me. btw there are several arguments for Trout beside WAR.

                  NL: I'd probably go McCutchen. He's having an excellent season and also is excellent defensive CF. Next for me would probably be Molina, then Kershaw.
                  Wolverines Packers Cubs Celtics

                  Comment

                  • 1stpitchhacker
                    Banned
                    • Jul 2013
                    • 193

                    #10
                    Re: MVP

                    Originally posted by JJLinn
                    If the Orioles make the playoffs, I'd have a hard time voting for anyone other than Crush.

                    Shocking, right?
                    So Davis' numbers being exactly the same in each case, he's the MVP if the O's make the playoffs but he isn't if they miss the playoffs. Logic at it's finest.

                    Comment

                    • 1stpitchhacker
                      Banned
                      • Jul 2013
                      • 193

                      #11
                      Re: MVP

                      Originally posted by DamnYanks2
                      I'm not voting for either Cabrera or Trout. Because I don't vote for aliens. So my vote goes to Crush Davis.
                      Ummm what?

                      Comment

                      • cardinalbird5
                        MVP
                        • Jul 2006
                        • 2814

                        #12
                        Re: MVP

                        NL: McCutchen should win it, but it is ridiculous how no one even considers Carp. They'll consider Molina or Craig (before his injury). Those are most fans who don't watch us regularly though. I guess he doesn't have enough pretty numbers to make people happy, but he been our MVP, no doubt. If he was batting in the middle of our lineup he'd have 100+ RBI's (the stat people like). Most of his value added is him moving over to 2b this year when we had no one worth a darn to play there. If you were to tell me last year that Matt Carpenter would finish top 5 in MVP voting the next year I would have said you were crazy. The guy is a baseball player and has been a pleasure to watch.

                        Oh and I disagree with OP why Carp should be considered. I think WAR is a good stat. Carpenter ranks 2nd there depending on what site you use. Carpenter's rate statistics have been amazing this year. There is literally nothing more you could of asked from him. He gave us a lead off man, legit 2b (best 2b since Hornsby for Stl), plays good defense, runs the bases well and hard, never argues or disrespects anyone, plays everyday, and he will play any position for us. I don't see McCutchen moving from 1st to 3rd to RF then to 2b during the offseason! Hey Cutch gets my vote, but Carp is right there!

                        AL: Trout is mine, but Cabrera will win it.

                        It depends how you define value, but value to me is run production (baserunning included) and runs saved (defense, range, arm strength) and how many wins you added to your team based on the position you play (this is why I like WAR). You can't really make players around you better like in the NFL (QB or OL), NBA (PG or C), NHL (C), etc. Baseball is a game of 1 on 1 matchups, but people seem to think players on better teams magically made their team better (outside of their individual production). Catchers is about the closest thing you can throw in there since they work with pitchers, but that is nothing compared to a NBA PG or an NFL QB.
                        Last edited by cardinalbird5; 09-30-2013, 12:33 PM.
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                        • mb625
                          DJ2K
                          • Jan 2012
                          • 5016

                          #13
                          Re: MVP

                          One player who I think is being overlooked a lot is Michael Cuddyer. Sure, he played on a bad team, but he led the NL in batting average (.331) and had a better OPS than McCutcheon (.919-.911). He probably wouldn't get my vote, but I'm surprised that he's not being talked about even a little.
                          MLB: Minnesota Twins
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                          Twitter: @mbless625

                          Comment

                          • mkharsh33
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Nov 2006
                            • 12734

                            #14
                            Re: MVP

                            Trout in the AL - guy is a stud. But wouldn't be shocked if Cabrera takes it. I just can't give it to Davis...

                            McCutcheon in the NL - great season, and the turnaround for PIT is a part of this magical season (ending the 1992 futility streak).
                            STEELERS INDIANS CELTICS

                            Comment

                            • snepp
                              We'll waste him too.
                              • Apr 2003
                              • 10007

                              #15
                              Re: MVP

                              Originally posted by mb625
                              One player who I think is being overlooked a lot is Michael Cuddyer. Sure, he played on a bad team, but he led the NL in batting average (.331) and had a better OPS than McCutcheon (.919-.911). He probably wouldn't get my vote, but I'm surprised that he's not being talked about even a little.
                              One plays half his games in the best hitters park in the league while playing a mediocre-to-poor defensive corner outfield with no added value on the bases, the other is an excellent defensive centerfielder without the aid of a hitter's paradise with tons of baserunning value as icing.

                              Cuddles isn't getting overlooked, he doesn't belong in the conversation.
                              Member of The OS Baseball Rocket Scientists Association

                              Comment

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