The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

[fcboiler87]

I have been adamant since shelving this game last November that I would not purchase NCAA '13. I think I have made well known my issues with the coaching carousel on these forums. But with the good reviews the new recruiting system has gotten (which btw, is good, but very tedious), I wanted to at least check it out, plus I knew there would be no definitive answers to my questions on the CC so I decided to rent instead.

I have simulated through a few seasons and have gone through the carousel to see if any improvements have been made. While I can see that progression on the coaches has been toned down, I can conclude that outside of that, the CC is still the same shell of what it could and should be. In fact, it appears as though it will once again ruin dynasty mode for me (notice I said me, not everyone). I know the majority of people are not as anal about this as I am, so maybe people won't care. But my frustrations with this feature have hit a boiling point today in my research.

Year 1
There were not a whole lot of head coaching changes. However, the ones that happened were crazy.

WSU HC (Mike Leach) leaves a 6-6 team to take over a 2-10 Memphis team. (he would go 1-11 year 1) WSU in turn promoted their DC (not too crazy)
NM hired the DC from Akron who finished 1-11
Tulane hired the OC from UAB who finished 4-8
Idaho hired the OC from Army who finished 5-7

Year 2
There were a ton of head coaching changes and almost none made any sense. (all the following changes are of programs hiring new head coaches)

Florida St fired Jimbo Fisher. They hired the Kansas St. OC (6-7).
Ohio hired the FIU head coach (9-4)
Arizona hired VT DC (10-3) - this one actually made sense
Arkansas St fired Malzahn after going 8-5 and hired Mike Gundy who was fired after going 7-6 at Ok St
Duke hired Nebraska's head coach whose contract had expired (WTF???)
Nebraska hired Kansas St.'s DC (6-7)
Ok St hired UCLA's DC (8-5)
Rutgers hired Gus Malzahn (Ark St's fired coach)
BC hired UNC OC (11-2) - not too crazy
Cal hired fired Duke HC
Iowa St. hired FSU's fired HC
UK's head coach had his contract expire after going 8-5 and he went to be an OC somwhere (WTF??) so they hired the DC from BGSU (7-6)
Oregon State hired Temple's DC (6-7)
SJSU hired the fired FAU HC (2-10)
FIU hired the fired Oregon State coach (2-10)
UTSA hired TCU DC (makes sense)
UMass hired fired ASU OC (4-8)
NM hired fired Nebraska DC
Kent St hired a made up coach
FAU hired a made up coach
Akron hired the fired Arizona HC

Out of 20 head coaching changes, 3 made sense to me. It looks like we have another year of the coordinator. To me, this is unacceptable. What happened to having success as a small school HC? What about being a coordinator at a successful BCS school (notice only a couple BCS coordinators got hired and only one was really successful).

Effectively, what we end up with is just a bunch of coaches changes places and thus, those teams just change playbooks. Because coaches do not affect team progression, team success is very spastic unless you are the Bama's of the world who never lose any coach for anything.

I am incredibly frustrated with a feature that could make dynasty mode incredible. However, I am faced with another year that the game would sit on my shelf because it loses playability. I quit last year because after having a ton of success at a small school, I wasn't able to jump to a big time program. This game prevents us from taking an Urban Meyer type of path.

I write this somewhat out of frustration, but my main point is to draw attention to something that is in dire need of work. Because of the lack of attention to this, I have no reason to buy the game. It's the first time since '98. It's disappointing because the recruiting system is pretty neat, but it's just not worth it if it's not playable down the road in dynasty.

[Skulletor]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

yeah Leach left after 1 year too to go to UMD, in fact 1 year contracts is freaking dumb

[TDenverFan]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

The year 2 changes arent a unrealistic as you think. Some are, but most would make sense.

[justlikepudge]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

I wish they would allow users to either see a listing of open jobs during the carousel and/or allow the users to disable getting offers as coordinators. Its quite a pain to go through looking at possible offers when my OD with friends only do head coaching spots.

[JoedicyMichael]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

Interesting enough tho, there are some changes up there that look like upgrades based on the school.

For Example, some of the smaller schools hired a bigger school's coach. While the Oregon State coach was pretty sh*tty, FIU did get a W out of that.

Then........... There are some WTF moments up there.. can understand why the UK coach was fired, but who they hired is kinda.. ehhh. strange?. But none-the-less, we have a problem with the CC it most instances.

[fcboiler87]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

yeah Leach left after 1 year too to go to UMD, in fact 1 year contracts is freaking dumb

Yes, one year contracts need to go. The whole contract structure needs to be reworked.

The year 2 changes arent a unrealistic as you think. Some are, but most would make sense.

How? Very few of them make any sense.

Visit http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/c...g_changes.html

Then please tell me how it makes sense. Name one coach on that list that didn't have a serious pedigree - in other words they enjoyed some serious success wherever they were. The only odd one was Houston, and he was promoted from within so it's not all that odd. Then go back through the other years and see if you can find good examples. Coaches at successful programs get head coaching gigs, not coordinators from crappy schools.

I wish they would allow users to either see a listing of open jobs during the carousel and/or allow the users to disable getting offers as coordinators. Its quite a pain to go through looking at possible offers when my OD with friends only do head coaching spots.

Agreed. The fact that we see some and not others is random and unrealistic. I want to see every coaching change from the beginning.

Interesting enough tho, there are some changes up there that look like upgrades based on the school.

For Example, some of the smaller schools hired a bigger school's coach. While the Oregon State coach was pretty sh*tty, FIU did get a W out of that.

Then........... There are some WTF moments up there.. can understand why the UK coach was fired, but who they hired is kinda.. ehhh. strange?. But none-the-less, we have a problem with the CC it most instances.

The reason the UK coach left was because his contract expired; not because he was fired. That is why that is messed up, because they were coming off of a winning record. If he won 8 games at UK, he'd get a 10 year contract extension.

You are right, FIU benefited from that. But most of the other ones made no sense and were not an upgrade in any sense of the mind. A coordinator with no HC experience from a crappy school does you no better than the guy you've been struggling with. They should go and hire coordinators from BCS schools. That's how it actually works (see above link to coaching changes).

[gymrat8168]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

Some of the changes are bad but it has improved somewhat from last year. So far through 3 years I have noticed that small schools tend to hire former OC/DCs and the larger programs tend to go with guys with head coaching experience. I went from OC at Louisville to HC at Wyoming to HC at a struggling Arizona State.

[MrRudy]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

It seems obvious to me, but the easy fix would be to tie coach prestige more in with program prestige. That way, the OC from the higher prestige school would be more valued than those at smaller programs (expecially ones that don't perform well)

You could even tie coach prestige in more with prestige drops and gains. Joe Blow might be OC at a 1 star Buffalo program, but they achieve success, the team prestige rises to two stars... maybe he gets offers now from 2-3 star programs. Not Notre Dame HC, perhaps OC there if they had a really successful season.

HC's at programs that fail to have success, but are highly prestigious should drop a tier but not all the way to the bottom.

I also HATE the one year contract. The only people who sign them in real life are those that are out of coaching, are at a lower tier (FCS, which we'll never have) and comeback as a temporary fix. (i.e John L. Smith)

[TDenverFan]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

Year 2
There were a ton of head coaching changes and almost none made any sense. (all the following changes are of programs hiring new head coaches)

What was FSU's record? And how was KSU's offense?Florida St fired Jimbo Fisher. They hired the Kansas St. OC (6-7).
Not a bad move. Ohio hired the FIU head coach (9-4)
Logical.Arizona hired VT DC (10-3) - this one actually made sense
ASU hiring a guy from OK St is not illogical. Firing the guy is odd, however. Arkansas St fired Malzahn after going 8-5 and hired Mike Gundy who was fired after going 7-6 at Ok St
Duke is a BCS program. Duke hired Nebraska's head coach whose contract had expired (WTF???)
How was KSU's defense? Not that oddNebraska hired Kansas St.'s DC (6-7)
Not a bad move.Ok St hired UCLA's DC (8-5)
Not a bad move. He did go 8-5. Rutgers hired Gus Malzahn (Ark St's fired coach)
Good move for BC. BC hired UNC OC (11-2) - not too crazy
Duke and Cal are both mediocre BCS Teams. Cal hired fired Duke HC
Logical. Iowa St. hired FSU's fired HC
Both of these are illogical moves. UK's head coach had his contract expire after going 8-5 and he went to be an OC somwhere (WTF??) so they hired the DC from BGSU (7-6)
OSU just went 2-10. Their options are limited. Oregon State hired Temple's DC (6-7)
SJSU has very few options. Not overly logical, I'll admit. SJSU hired the fired FAU HC (2-10)
Good move for FIU. They got a BCS coach. FIU hired the fired Oregon State coach (2-10)
Logical. UTSA hired TCU DC (makes sense)
Not a bad move for a small team like UMASS. UMass hired fired ASU OC (4-8)
Good move for the Lobos. NM hired fired Nebraska DC
That's fine. New coaches need to be addded. Kent St hired a made up coach
Same thing. FAU hired a made up coach
Good move for the Zips. Major downgrade for the Arizona HC. Akron hired the fired Arizona HC

However, I agree the carousel needs a major change. If they don't tweak it, my odds of buying 14 severely drop.

[voodoo_magic]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

It seems obvious to me, but the easy fix would be to tie coach prestige more in with program prestige. That way, the OC from the higher prestige school would be more valued than those at smaller programs (expecially ones that don't perform well)

You could even tie coach prestige in more with prestige drops and gains. Joe Blow might be OC at a 1 star Buffalo program, but they achieve success, the team prestige rises to two stars... maybe he gets offers now from 2-3 star programs. Not Notre Dame HC, perhaps OC there if they had a really successful season.

HC's at programs that fail to have success, but are highly prestigious should drop a tier but not all the way to the bottom.

I also HATE the one year contract. The only people who sign them in real life are those that are out of coaching, are at a lower tier (FCS, which we'll never have) and comeback as a temporary fix. (i.e John L. Smith)

I like that idea.
If I'm a co-ordinator at some small program and go 2-10 why would Notre Dame say hey come be our head coach.

[yanek27]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

I like that idea.
If I'm a co-ordinator at some small program and go 2-10 why would Notre Dame say hey come be our head coach.

Well in a perfect world I see ur point but the reality is its about who you know and connections. Winning helps but we see that who u know wins out alot.

[Colt45]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

I don't really get the problems others have said they had. Last year I went from OC at Western Michigan to Head Coach at Texas. Took ~12 years and several stops inbetween. I got the head coaching job at Texas after taking Ball State to the National Championship. My job progression was something like:

1 year as Western Michigan OC
~4 years as San Diego State OC
1 year as Ol' Miss OC
1 year as Michigan OC
~5 years as Ball State HC
Texas Head Coach

At this point our OD got the death bug, but we were able to save it and keep going, but we all made up new OCs and started over. Progression was:

3 years as Washington State OC (who at this point was a 1-star in the WAC).
~6 years as SMU OC (by choice. I turned down a handful of ACC and Big East HC jobs I wasn't interested in)
2 years as Stanford head coach

So I wonder if you guys complaining about not getting elite head coaching jobs are giving it enough time.

[Sublime12089]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

Hmmm.... I was optimistic after doing my first offseason last night, The only major change was Leach going to UCLA, which is realistic enough for me, everything else looked about right. Mid level HCs being grabbed from lower level programs or fired slightly bigger school HCs and low level teams grabbing cooridinators from low or slightly higher level programs as HCs. Hopefully I don't start seeing the same things as you guys.

[Jeff George]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

NM hired the DC from Akron who finished 1-11

I can see this one. New Mexico is as bad as it gets. Both their coordinators have D- prestige, so really, anyone is a step up. Akron's DC is a C- (and in real life, it's Chuck Amato, who actually has a modest level of prestige).

I mean, real-world New Mexico just hired a head coach who got fired from his only head-coaching job 11 years ago. For once, I think the carousel logic isn't too far off from reality.

[fcboiler87]

Re: The Coaching Carousel Needs Significant Improvements

I don't really get the problems others have said they had. Last year I went from OC at Western Michigan to Head Coach at Texas. Took ~12 years and several stops inbetween. I got the head coaching job at Texas after taking Ball State to the National Championship. My job progression was something like:

1 year as Western Michigan OC
~4 years as San Diego State OC
1 year as Ol' Miss OC
1 year as Michigan OC
~5 years as Ball State HC
Texas Head Coach

At this point our OD got the death bug, but we were able to save it and keep going, but we all made up new OCs and started over. Progression was:

3 years as Washington State OC (who at this point was a 1-star in the WAC).
~6 years as SMU OC (by choice. I turned down a handful of ACC and Big East HC jobs I wasn't interested in)
2 years as Stanford head coach

So I wonder if you guys complaining about not getting elite head coaching jobs are giving it enough time.

It's not about me really. I mean I do have an issue with the fact that I was at a mid major and had a lot of success and was there for 8 years and couldn't get a sniff at a big prestigious program. That's not right. But the real problem is for me the CPU logic in hiring and firing and contracts. They don't make much sense. Good HC's from small schools and good coordinators from big schools aren't getting hired. It's the same problem where if you're not a coordinator, you're not getting a HC job.

I can see this one. New Mexico is as bad as it gets. Both their coordinators have D- prestige, so really, anyone is a step up. Akron's DC is a C- (and in real life, it's Chuck Amato, who actually has a modest level of prestige).

I mean, real-world New Mexico just hired a head coach who got fired from his only head-coaching job 11 years ago. For once, I think the carousel logic isn't too far off from reality.

But Davie was still a good coach and did have success; just not the kind ND wanted. No coach from a team that can't win a game should land a HC position. It should have at least came from a coordinator at a successful small school, but you don't see that. It's only from the unsuccessful teams.