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QB Vision

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  • Ninjas N Grits
    Banned
    • Apr 2012
    • 171

    #1

    QB Vision

    I like when game company's try to be inventive. It doesn't always work, but it shows gamers that they are trying. The vision cone was a new (note: not a rehashed) idea to Madden. And while it wasn't my favorite, and most people hated it, it presented a good representation of what a QB can see. Some QBs, manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, can see the field better than others. But its hard to replicate that on a video game.

    So how about instead of a cone to control, you have to select a receiver using the icon, and then either hit it again for your throw type, or hold it down?

    ****Everybody knows Jackie Robinson was #42****
  • CRMosier_LM
    Banned
    • Jul 2009
    • 2061

    #2
    I had a similar thought using just the QB's head movement. Something along the lines of use the right stick to make the qb look left and right. Not as specific as the old cone and probably less tedious but still representing the fact that you need to look in the general direction of where you are throwing to achieve maximum accuracy.

    Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk 2

    Comment

    • Jimi XIII
      Banned
      • Dec 2011
      • 452

      #3
      Re: QB Vision

      I didn't like it, but some people liked it because it gave awareness some meaning. I say just have the LB/RB or LT/RT buttons switch the sides of the field your QB can look at and have awareness dictate how aware the QB notices an open receiver by flashing the open receivers icon but not every single time a receiver is open, maybe just 75% of the time or something.

      But maybe QB Vision wouldn't be so bad if an actual pocket was better represented in the game.

      Comment

      • Kaiser Wilhelm
        MVP
        • Sep 2010
        • 2790

        #4
        Re: QB Vision

        I would be in favor of an under the hood solution where awareness will act as negative modifier to other ratings when the player is user controlled.

        I'm not sure if this could be applied to all positions as I'm not sure how the game checks to see if a player is user controlled or not.

        Ideally they would add "user controlled" as a trigger for such a modifier. Awareness needs to have an impact on user controlled players.

        For QBs maybe it could slow down the animation or reduce accuracy a few points. Now most people would hate anything that would make them less superhuman so I doubt to ever see something implemented.
        Thanks to LBzrules: So these threads won't be forever lost.
        Tiered Play Calling
        Outs and Curls (Bracketing Receivers)
        If anybody is interested in a "spiritual successor to the socom franchise, check out this thread.

        Comment

        • berad88
          MVP
          • Aug 2008
          • 1211

          #5
          Re: QB Vision

          A method under the hood based on awareness I am all for.
          Any user control though to make the quarterback look a certain way to see a receiver and then throw the ball is just to slow and clumsy and not a great idea.

          Comment

          • lordnate
            Rookie
            • Apr 2009
            • 78

            #6
            Re: QB Vision

            I know I'm in the minority when I say this, but I think QB vision was one of the best things EA ever did with Madden. People always complain how it made offense harder, but I thought it actually in at least one way gave the offense an advantage. It gave you the ability to look off your WRs.

            There was nothing better than playing someone that was user controlling their FS and baiting them with the vision cone setting up a big play to another WR. I remember one play I was scrambling and switch my vision cone 6 times before finding an open WR in the back of the endzone. It did make things harder at times, but that difficulty made it more rewarding when you pulled off an awesome play.

            Madden currently, IMO, is boring. The passing is as basic as it was in Madden '98, and the running is even worse. The RB has absolutely no moves except for break tackle moves. A well timed juke means nothing because you can't really juke unless you enter the tackle animation and then you have to rely on ratings instead of skill. EA has done as much as possible to take user skill out of the game, IMO. Of course, the better player is still going to win the majority of the time, but its more about playing percentages. There is no thrill because the entire game is canned to the max.

            Comment

            • nosaints26
              Rookie
              • Aug 2008
              • 194

              #7
              Re: QB Vision

              I really think QB Vision was, and is, hands-down the best way to account for the differences between a true veteran QB with a good arm and a rookie with a good arm. It added flavor to passing and spice to playing defense (particularly free safety).

              Now Madden is watered down on both sides of the ball. I mean, come on now- defensive assist??? All I have to do is hold down a button and the CPU controls my defender for me?? Playing outfield at FS used to be fun and exciting, now you have leagues banning players from switching while the ball is in the air because it's so incredibly easy to user control and user pick balls.

              Comment

              • lordnate
                Rookie
                • Apr 2009
                • 78

                #8
                Re: QB Vision

                Originally posted by Ninjas N Grits
                I like when game company's try to be inventive. It doesn't always work, but it shows gamers that they are trying. The vision cone was a new (note: not a rehashed) idea to Madden. And while it wasn't my favorite, and most people hated it, it presented a good representation of what a QB can see. Some QBs, manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, can see the field better than others. But its hard to replicate that on a video game.

                So how about instead of a cone to control, you have to select a receiver using the icon, and then either hit it again for your throw type, or hold it down?

                ****Everybody knows Jackie Robinson was #42****
                I guess I didn't really answer your question. Yes, I think that would be good improvement. Just have two button presses. What I'd prefer however, is to use the face buttons to select the WRs and use the RT to throw the pass. Then you vary the touch based on how hard you pull the trigger. By doing that, you could put lead passing on the R-Stick so that it doesn't interfere with your scrambling.

                Of course this would make it so that you couldn't sprint with the QB. I think clicking in on the R-Stick or maybe the L-Stick should switch from passing and running mode. I know this would be slightly cumbersome, but I believe it would be great to reduce people wanting to sprint out of the pocket all the time.

                Madden 13 is reworking pass leading. I hope they are doing it so that, you lead based on how long you hold the stick in a direction. You should be able to over lead so that there is a skill aspect involved. Better WRs should be better at adjusting on off target passes so that they give you more freedom to throw them open.

                Comment

                • berad88
                  MVP
                  • Aug 2008
                  • 1211

                  #9
                  Re: QB Vision

                  The vision cone was a good concept but I never liked the way it worked. You see a receiver open with your own eyes. Then you have to push stuff on your controller to make the qb see him. Then you have to throw the ball. All just took longer than it should take.

                  Comment

                  • guillermotricia
                    Rookie
                    • May 2012
                    • 6

                    #10
                    Re: QB Vision

                    I had a similar thought using just the QB's head movement

                    Comment

                    • kayGET
                      Rookie
                      • May 2003
                      • 20

                      #11
                      Re: QB Vision

                      Originally posted by Ninjas N Grits
                      I like when game company's try to be inventive. It doesn't always work, but it shows gamers that they are trying. The vision cone was a new (note: not a rehashed) idea to Madden. And while it wasn't my favorite, and most people hated it, it presented a good representation of what a QB can see. Some QBs, manning, Brady, Rodgers, Brees, can see the field better than others. But its hard to replicate that on a video game.

                      So how about instead of a cone to control, you have to select a receiver using the icon, and then either hit it again for your throw type, or hold it down?

                      ****Everybody knows Jackie Robinson was #42****

                      I had the same tought, but in my opinion, first you should hit the receiver icon, then use the right stick to throw the ball. (a bit like BackBreaker)

                      Otherwise it Would be only a double hit on the same icon !!
                      Last edited by kayGET; 05-26-2012, 09:00 AM. Reason: Comment

                      Comment

                      • TTD71
                        Rookie
                        • Apr 2011
                        • 172

                        #12
                        Re: QB Vision

                        The number one problem with Madden is the camera view. Playing the game this way dictates the very style and tactics that annoy so many people. The "god" cam allows the user to see things that only an OC could see.

                        I would zoom the camera in to something 1/2 way between the current camera and Backbreaker's camera system. The QB should be able to see about 1/2 the field at any time. In the huddle, when calling the play, the user should use L2 to have the default view cover the left or R2 to have the default view cover the right. Allowing the user to switch back and forth seamlessly by using L2 and R2 during a play would also be necessary.

                        This would be met with howls of protest by a ton of people, and it will NEVER happen, but limiting the QB's ACTUAL vision is the only way to really help bring realism to the game. In real life, if the QB had the vision of the OC, defenses would have no chance.

                        Make a game mechanic and camera change together - freshen up the game already because I have been playing from roughly the same "god" camera since Madden '91 (the video retrospective shows this pretty clearly - despite moving from sprites to polys to fully 3D models, the gameplay itself is HUGELY unchanged...its like we are continually playing a prettier and prettier side-scrolling adventure game instead of ever getting into real 3D space).

                        The "zoomed" camera option in '12 was a potentially good start (but you have to make it movable to see the sidelines)...and thats about as far as I think it will ever go...

                        Comment

                        • Ninjas N Grits
                          Banned
                          • Apr 2012
                          • 171

                          #13
                          I like the L/R trigger option too. I just was thinking that in real life a QB has to look at his receiver, before he throws it. In my head I see selecting a button, the icon flashes to alert the D, and then you throw it. I also really like the idea of using the trigger to throw different types of passes.

                          You could still look off the safety by "looking" at one WR, then quickly selecting and throwing to another.

                          In truth, all I really want is innovation towards a sim football experience. Instead of taking away strafe on offense, take away rocket catches. Add momentum and make weight matter. Do something to make this game great, not just a $60 roster update.

                          ****Everybody knows Jackie Robinson was #42****

                          Comment

                          • BathSaints
                            Rookie
                            • Aug 2008
                            • 22

                            #14
                            Re: QB Vision

                            Short of giving us the QBs actual view I don't see how you can improve it. Certainly I don't have the co-ordination to look at all points of the screen at once. HOWEVER that doesn't matter because I know what everyone is doing and what button to press already.

                            I would prefer they didn't tell us the button beforehand. That way I have to focus on the player, see what their key is, and if it doesn't work I can just press X subliminally - I actually have to look what their key is. I hope the new NCAA system is something like this but I guess time will tell...

                            Comment

                            • wheelman990
                              Banned
                              • Oct 2008
                              • 2233

                              #15
                              Re: QB Vision

                              Originally posted by TTD71
                              The number one problem with Madden is the camera view. Playing the game this way dictates the very style and tactics that annoy so many people. The "god" cam allows the user to see things that only an OC could see.

                              I would zoom the camera in to something 1/2 way between the current camera and Backbreaker's camera system. The QB should be able to see about 1/2 the field at any time. In the huddle, when calling the play, the user should use L2 to have the default view cover the left or R2 to have the default view cover the right. Allowing the user to switch back and forth seamlessly by using L2 and R2 during a play would also be necessary.

                              This would be met with howls of protest by a ton of people, and it will NEVER happen, but limiting the QB's ACTUAL vision is the only way to really help bring realism to the game. In real life, if the QB had the vision of the OC, defenses would have no chance.

                              Make a game mechanic and camera change together - freshen up the game already because I have been playing from roughly the same "god" camera since Madden '91 (the video retrospective shows this pretty clearly - despite moving from sprites to polys to fully 3D models, the gameplay itself is HUGELY unchanged...its like we are continually playing a prettier and prettier side-scrolling adventure game instead of ever getting into real 3D space).

                              The "zoomed" camera option in '12 was a potentially good start (but you have to make it movable to see the sidelines)...and thats about as far as I think it will ever go...
                              I mentioned the same thing here a few times over the years. A camera slightly closer then the current zoom cam, with a tilt left and right feature for the sideline/ screen route passes. The only thing I could come up with control wise that would feel nice is to have it where if you tap the right thumb stick to the left cam clicks one move to the left(3 cam positions), click right stick to the right moves cam one move to the right. Having to hold down the right stick would be too frustrating and the cam would not be steady.

                              This camera tilt speed could be linked with QB awareness. QB's with a slow awareness have a slightly slower tilting cam to make those sideline reads,etc.

                              If the majority don't like the slower cam to mark awareness, I wondered how it would be to make receiver icons not always show based on QB awareness. In other words a 50 QB awareness might miss 5 wr icons per every 10 pass plays, and a 75 QB rating might miss 2-3. A 90+ rating only misses 1 or none per 10 plays.- Now they introduced where the icons dont show if the receiver isn't looking, but the bad thing is that doesn't matter QB awareness, and likely not a receivers either(have to wait and see on that).

                              The only thing with the cam tilt is it wouldn't really work pvp because the user controlled defensive player might be on the right side on the field during a left camera tilt. Unless they just make it where the defensive user is just out of luck and gets a cursor. That could actually be interesting,lol. Talk about a defender out of position if you move the cemra back to the right quickly,lol.

                              It's easy to come up with idea's, but another to get them to work. I would love to see this as a option just to see what it is like. 2k5 showed us that first player football wouldn't be a easy thing to do at all, and I didn't like that perspective much at all. I didn't like the way the Madden vision cone was done. The flashlight effect really killed the look and feel of football visually.

                              Comment

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