Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

[urjaywall]

So, I don't post much to this forum, but I usually read through it. I have read a ton of the complaints threads and agree with most of the complaints, while others aren't a huge deal to me. This thread isn't a complaint as much as it is a question.

The thing that drives me crazy about this game is it is a completely different game every time I turn it on. One night it plays perfectly (similar to 2K11). However, the next night it is a total mess. By mess, I mean its impossible to stay in front of anyone on defense, as it feels like the default move is moving away from the defender as opposed to towards the defender (2K11 had that "defense assist" that made man to man defense actually fun). There is virtually no contact physics when playing defense. All the players are sluggish and won't accelerate for like 5 steps. A lot of times, the defensive player will spin the opposite direction the ball handler goes. Your teamates will act bizarre on offense and defense (on defense they will sometimes leave their man COMPLETELY wide open and not be covering anyone, on offense they will stand around on very random spots on the floor). The speed and acceleration on offense varies, sometimes the moves are super quick and hard to control the player, other times its super slow and impossible to get around anyone.

This is only sometimes though. Sometimes I turn the game on and, like I said, its very enjoyable. All the problems I stated aren't there. Its just perplexing how inconsistent it is. I don't understand why.

My guess is it has something to do with the patch. I downloaded the patch a long time ago and its still on there. But I'm wondering if every time you play the game it has to "reinstall" the patch or something (I'm playing on Xbox 360). If that's the case, I'm wondering if it simply reinstalls it incorrectly sometimes.

I also noticed the "saving- do not turn off the system" message whenever I start the game up and have no clue what that is. I was wondering that was the patch, NBA Today, textures, or something else.

So I'm not saying the game mechanics are broken. Like I said, some times that I have played it recently, the mechanics were great and it was very enjoyable. But its the times that I turn it on and the mechanics are completely off that drives me crazy.

Has anyone else noticed this inconsistency?

[P-Dub]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

I have noticed something similar with regards to control. Some games it is quite responsive and I can time my shots consistently and react fast on defense. Other times it seems like the player I am controlling just can't get his feet out of concrete or the shot release timing is different than the game I played right before it. I guess it has something to do with progressive fatigue or some other aspect of the game.

The game updates and saves the nba today roster and a couple other things when you start it up. This is normal.

[funkworthy]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

I've noticed the same inconsistency. I think it is tied to momentum. When your team has momentum, everything works perfectly as you described. When they don't, everything goes wrong.

This is, I'm guessing, an attempt to replicate NBA ball as a "game of runs." I think it only ends up being really frustrating for the user.

I think you are supposed to make coaching adjustments when you notice this stuff happening. I think rebounding and turnovers have a lot to do with momentum. I'll often pause and check these stats and often when my players are lubricated on D, sluggish as AI teamates, and I'm like pulling up for 6 foot jump shots that miss with all-stars (instead of performing a layup), when these things are happening I'm more often than not getting out rebounded or giving up the ball. But with these stat lines it is a chicken v egg question for me if you follow. Do they dictate momentum or does the momentum dictate the rebounding and turnover advantages?

Bottom line is, I agree with your assessment and it tries my patience to no end. I wonder if the game developers made it this way to make you want to play again and again, chasing the feeling of "getting it right." In my opinion it is way over the top, and puts you in the passenger seat, along for the ride, to see if the same user commands yield good, solid plays or lousy ones.

So my hypothesis to for the problem you describe is momentum, in the game by design. I wonder what others think.

[waytofailself]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

is it something that can be adjusted by sliders? (momentum effects etc?)

[urjaywall]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

I've noticed the same inconsistency. I think it is tied to momentum. When your team has momentum, everything works perfectly as you described. When they don't, everything goes wrong.

This is, I'm guessing, an attempt to replicate NBA ball as a "game of runs." I think it only ends up being really frustrating for the user.

I think you are supposed to make coaching adjustments when you notice this stuff happening. I think rebounding and turnovers have a lot to do with momentum. I'll often pause and check these stats and often when my players are lubricated on D, sluggish as AI teamates, and I'm like pulling up for 6 foot jump shots that miss with all-stars (instead of performing a layup), when these things are happening I'm more often than not getting out rebounded or giving up the ball. But with these stat lines it is a chicken v egg question for me if you follow. Do they dictate momentum or does the momentum dictate the rebounding and turnover advantages?

Bottom line is, I agree with your assessment and it tries my patience to no end. I wonder if the game developers made it this way to make you want to play again and again, chasing the feeling of "getting it right." In my opinion it is way over the top, and puts you in the passenger seat, along for the ride, to see if the same user commands yield good, solid plays or lousy ones.

So my hypothesis to for the problem you describe is momentum, in the game by design. I wonder what others think.

Interesting. I wonder if that is the case with certain teams, then. I've noticed whenever I play with certain teams (bad teams), it is more often the case that it feels "off." And a lot of times when I play really good teams, that is the case as well. So maybe that is a possibility (because momentum should be even when you start the game, however, maybe if one team is better than the other with the "team rating," then they start with the momentum).

I did play with a lot of the settings. I played with sliders, which helped the shooting (I toned down the CPU shooting by 5 for each category and bumped up my 3's by 5, which made it pretty even for both of us- when I cover the CPU they miss most of the time... if I can cover them).

I also tried game speed, which didn't really effect much except for the overall animations (the proportions were still off).

The one thing that did help was I went to defensive settings and told everyone to play tight on their man at all times and never double team or help on defense (if I wanted to do that, I'll switch to another player and do it manually). That way they tended not to get lost on defense on picks and cuts, since that is typically when the game mechanics go haywire.

So I'll keep investigating. I feel like I've played the game enough to know how the mechanics should be and when they are off. So maybe I can find some kind of link. But honestly, its almost like certain days have better mechanics than others, without even touching the settings. And I'm pretty sure its not a placebo effect.

I wonder, once the NBA season ends, if it will improve, since the game won't be constantly trying to connect to NBA today.

[StraightBaylien]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

It seems like you don't want real NBA style ball, seems you want video game style ball. In the NBA, teams come out hot and cold. They try and play good D, but sometimes the O is better. I think 2k12 did well in that respect, never knowing what you're gonna get, which is the case in the NBA. All though, I'll admit, I don't play default. Good gameplay is really related to what roster/slider combo you're using. I use my roster (which can be found in the roster section) plus RedLogic's sliders, with a few tweaks, and I am experiencing the most authentic gameplay I ever have.

[I Djm]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

It seems like you don't want real NBA style ball, seems you want video game style ball. In the NBA, teams come out hot and cold. They try and play good D, but sometimes the O is better. I think 2k12 did well in that respect, never knowing what you're gonna get, which is the case in the NBA. All though, I'll admit, I don't play default. Good gameplay is really related to what roster/slider combo you're using. I use my roster (which can be found in the roster section) plus RedLogic's sliders, with a few tweaks, and I am experiencing the most authentic gameplay I ever have.

if you dont play default you can never understand. if the op is playing my player then rosters can only do so much. we get that this stuff happens but its the rate that it happens. in real life yea anything can happen but in a video game certain teams have their stats for a reason. just go play a game of creating a legend or my player with your roster and regular sliders then you might can see the problems

[scoonie05]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

^^^^^ I agree 100%

[DJ]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

This game is very Jeckyl and Hyde.

I do think it's also a game that you need to be playing consistently to see results, otherwise you are going to be very frustrated by what the CPU is doing.

I hadn't played 2K in a week, fired it up tonight and got my butt handed to me twice by the CPU. Part of it was the usual CPU cheapness that you just can't stop, like PG's dominating in the paint with pump fakes, spins and up-and-unders that beat bigs 100% of the time. The other part was I wasn't playing focused enough basketball to win; too much freestyle and setting for bad shots instead of being patient and working the ball.

Sliders help some of the CPU issues, but again, there are things that are just out of our control at this point.

[urjaywall]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

It seems like you don't want real NBA style ball, seems you want video game style ball. In the NBA, teams come out hot and cold. They try and play good D, but sometimes the O is better. I think 2k12 did well in that respect, never knowing what you're gonna get, which is the case in the NBA. All though, I'll admit, I don't play default. Good gameplay is really related to what roster/slider combo you're using. I use my roster (which can be found in the roster section) plus RedLogic's sliders, with a few tweaks, and I am experiencing the most authentic gameplay I ever have.

Yes and no. I think people are misinterpreting what I was criticizing. It is not shooting. I understand shooting is streaky. I'm mainly talking about physics (movement). The inconsistency I find is mainly on defense as well as offensive AI. Sometimes the defense is fine, but other times either you players move way too quickly and sensitive, where they jump way back or end up behind the they guy they are guarding because they move too quickly, or the opposite, where they hardly move at all and can't stay in front of the offense because of that. But every once in a while, its perfect, where they react and move realistically.

I watch the NBA a ton and play basketball a ton, so I am pretty familiar with what should and should not occur, so that's why the physics really bug me. The only thing that bugged me about the shooting was with everything set to default, whenever I shot 3's, 80 percent of the time the shot would roll around inside the rim and rim out, something that doesn't happen that often in real life (usually it either bounces around the rim, not really rolling in and out). A slight tweak minimized that. But the physics system, I'm not sure what governs that.

[nip83]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

Maybe it's because i'm playing on the pc( if it has to do with memory issues etc) post-patch ,but i've noticed the following:

-When i first fire a game(usually association) ,everything feels off.Ball movement is not there,controls are sluggish, the game feels slow and unresponsive, i can almost ,feel, the force fields "swarm" the user...

-As the game progresses i notice that a "groove" is starting to emerge,like a certain tempo.When running plays i'm able to hit players with crisp passes at the right moments,i can iso dribble in "sync" with the ball bouncing.It really starts to feel like you 've got to have a rhythm to your moves,to play a good game.

-A couple of games later, the "groove" is gone and movement instead of going to the usual sluggish mode,goes to a little bit faster.At this stage there's a lot of off ball movement and faster possesions, but defense becomes difficult to pull off.

All the above come and go in a long cycle.I'm playing mostly default updated rosters,sliders wth clutch off,all star mode 12 min quarters.
...Oh and usually i'm not high (as in B-Easy kind of high) when playing the game...Anyone else noticed the above pattern?

[Paul Pierce_OS]

Yes and no. I think people are misinterpreting what I was criticizing. It is not shooting. I understand shooting is streaky. I'm mainly talking about physics (movement). The inconsistency I find is mainly on defense as well as offensive AI. Sometimes the defense is fine, but other times either you players move way too quickly and sensitive, where they jump way back or end up behind the they guy they are guarding because they move too quickly, or the opposite, where they hardly move at all and can't stay in front of the offense because of that. But every once in a while, its perfect, where they react and move realistically.

I watch the NBA a ton and play basketball a ton, so I am pretty familiar with what should and should not occur, so that's why the physics really bug me. The only thing that bugged me about the shooting was with everything set to default, whenever I shot 3's, 80 percent of the time the shot would roll around inside the rim and rim out, something that doesn't happen that often in real life (usually it either bounces around the rim, not really rolling in and out). A slight tweak minimized that. But the physics system, I'm not sure what governs that.

Well a defense could be too sensitive one night in the nba and be to physical the other so I don't get what you mean?


Sent from Celtics Nation

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

It looks like he's talking about those wierd animations that trigger from time to time. In some games you can play through smoothly and not see much of an issue at other times they riddle the game and can make it hard to keep playing. Teammate AI works on the same pattern. The game sometimes has a problem with replicating mistakes. One example, instead of a player getting the ball stolen in the post in an understandable way he'll go into a kind of "zombie" stance and watch as the ball is taken by the defender.

[sword1986]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

All Star/Sim (no adjustments)
Game Speed: 35
Clutch Factor: Off

This game is impossible to play on a higher game speed because there is way too much going on and defense against the CPU on the All Star difficulty would become near impossible to defend.

Slower game = Better game

Engaging contact in the paint and on drives, you must use anticipatory defense, involving a lot of lateral movement and going where the ball handler is trying to go. Use the triggers (R2 & L2 on PS3) so you shuffle and slightly move the left movement stick to follow. At the same time, you need to aim the Right Stick at the ball handler to engage the contact and then the ratings will play out. On a slower game speed, it is much easier to play defense and will eliminate a lot of your problems.

[urjaywall]

Re: Why is this game so inconsistent? (serious question)

Maybe it's because i'm playing on the pc( if it has to do with memory issues etc) post-patch ,but i've noticed the following:

-When i first fire a game(usually association) ,everything feels off.Ball movement is not there,controls are sluggish, the game feels slow and unresponsive, i can almost ,feel, the force fields "swarm" the user...

-As the game progresses i notice that a "groove" is starting to emerge,like a certain tempo.When running plays i'm able to hit players with crisp passes at the right moments,i can iso dribble in "sync" with the ball bouncing.It really starts to feel like you 've got to have a rhythm to your moves,to play a good game.

-A couple of games later, the "groove" is gone and movement instead of going to the usual sluggish mode,goes to a little bit faster.At this stage there's a lot of off ball movement and faster possesions, but defense becomes difficult to pull off.

All the above come and go in a long cycle.I'm playing mostly default updated rosters,sliders wth clutch off,all star mode 12 min quarters.
...Oh and usually i'm not high (as in B-Easy kind of high) when playing the game...Anyone else noticed the above pattern?

That is actually very intriguing, what you said. That actually might be it. I think its something to do with the "script" of the game. I am not very informed on how a video game is actually made programming wise, although I do know not everything happens instantaneously, some pieces of code depend on other pieces and its like a big puzzle. So maybe that is the problem. Maybe sometimes the script gets out of order or confused and has to correct itself.

It makes me think of something I read, about the patch for Skyrim, where the developer said "if weird stuff starts to happen, let it happen, its just the game's script correcting itself." I kind of wonder if its the same deal with NBA 2K12. And I still really do think the confusion is brought on by it constantly updating itself with NBA Today. Still not 100 percent sure though.

But I was playing last night, and it was running perfectly, very enjoyable. The third game I played, it felt a little sluggish at first, but it corrected itself after a few minutes, I think. So maybe if I play the game again and it feels like a mess, instead of quitting and trying later, I'll play for a few quarters and see if it corrects itself.