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  • jkra0512
    MVP
    • Sep 2006
    • 2277

    #1

    NY Yankees Pitching Edits

    ***UPDATED 5/8/10***
    Brought Erick's edits for RHP Mark Melancon to the first page


    Now, I'm not claiming these are right and I want to discuss these edits so we can come to a general agreement of where we are going with these. First off, I wanted to just get the right pitches & velocities for each pitcher on the Yanks' big club....so no minor leaguers were researched thus far. My sources were, fangraphs.com and 60ft6in.com, as well as my own eyes and judgment. Pitches will be in the order of use...

    REMEMBER THESE ARE UP FOR DISCUSSION!!!

    CC Sabathia
    Running Fastball
    86
    73
    60

    Slurve
    56
    70
    90

    Circle-Change
    10
    89
    30

    2 Seam Fastball
    78
    52
    53

    Cutter
    76
    56
    59

    AJ Burnett
    Running Fastball
    86
    71
    65

    Knuckle-Curve
    76
    54
    81

    Circle-Change
    5
    43
    69

    2 Seam Fastball
    77
    21
    65

    Andy Pettitte
    2 Seam Fastball
    62
    68
    43

    Slider
    44
    72
    56

    Cutter
    52
    74
    80

    Sweeping Curve
    49
    72
    66

    Changeup
    34
    28
    71

    Javier Vazquez
    Running Fastball
    70
    86
    69

    Slider
    51
    80
    72

    Sweeping Curve
    23
    79
    72

    Changeup
    39
    56
    67

    2 Seam Fastball
    69
    47
    59

    Proposed Delivery Edit for Vazquez: Wandy Rodriguez

    Phil Hughes
    4 Seam Fastball
    62
    79
    72

    12-6 Curve
    52
    54
    72

    Cutter
    62
    91
    56

    Slider
    81
    61
    58

    Circle-Change
    47
    52
    65

    Proposed Delivery Edit for Hughes: G-15

    Alfredo Aceves
    4 Seam FB
    58
    84
    50

    Cutter
    54
    80
    61

    Circle Change
    66
    80
    78

    Curveball
    66
    46
    68

    David Robertson
    Cutter
    75
    72
    35

    Curveball
    66
    75
    87

    Slider
    77
    54
    76

    Changeup
    19
    41
    88

    Sergio Mitre
    ????

    Joba Chamberlain
    Running FB
    82
    76
    60

    Slider
    58
    79
    96

    Curveball
    59
    52
    69

    Changeup
    31
    43
    62

    Chan-Ho Park
    ????

    Mark Melancon
    4 Seam FB
    70
    65
    58

    12-6 Curve
    94
    45
    52

    Splitter
    37
    37
    48

    2 Seam FB
    80
    49
    63

    Damaso Marte
    Running FB
    74
    77
    86

    Slurve
    63
    76
    84

    Changeup
    26
    56
    66

    Mariano Rivera
    SCEA Defaults

    ---------------------

    Thanks to Erick and everyone who joined in the discussion. These are not final by any means and I would like to personally invite more discussion on these edits. We are still looking into other players such as Sergio Mitre, Mark Melancon, and Chan Ho Park.
    Last edited by jkra0512; 05-08-2010, 09:05 AM.
  • ElroyJetson
    MVP
    • Apr 2007
    • 1861

    #2
    Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

    I thought Sabathia threw a Slurve only not also a slider?
    PSN - SwangKang169
    Yankees
    Miami Hurricanes
    Minnesota Vikings
    JetLife

    Comment

    • DieHardYankee26
      BING BONG
      • Feb 2008
      • 10178

      #3
      Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

      Originally posted by jkra0512
      Mariano Rivera
      4-seam FB- 91 mph
      Cutter- 92 mph
      2-seam FB- 90 mph

      I had to give him another pitch, but he rarely uses a 2-seam...
      Looks like he heard you, because he threw two or three two seamers against the Red Sox last night.
      Originally posted by G Perico
      If I ain't got it, then I gotta take it
      I can't hide who I am, baby I'm a gangster
      In the Rolls Royce, steppin' on a mink rug
      The clique just a gang of bosses that linked up

      Comment

      • Juventino_10
        Rookie
        • Apr 2009
        • 427

        #4
        Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

        Great work here.

        What about actual numbers for Control and Break for each pitchers specified pitch ?

        Comment

        • El_MaYiMbE
          MVP
          • Mar 2003
          • 1427

          #5
          Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

          AJ Burnett throws more of a slurve or sweeping curve, it does break 12-6 like they have him by default.

          Also CC throws a straight slider and sometimes a cutter, but I dont feel there is much of a difference between them to consider adding it.

          Comment

          • Erick
            Rookie
            • Jun 2008
            • 128

            #6
            Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

            CC Sabathia
            4-Seam FB- 94 mph
            Slider- 82 mph
            Change-up- 85 mph
            Slurve- 79 mph

            Changeup is straight but he holds it with a Circle - Change grip.
            I too only thought he thew a slurve.
            Last year CC was changing his grip on the 4 seamer to create more movement. I noticed it throughout the playoffs as his fastball had more tail as opposed to in the past.


            AJ Burnett
            4-Seam FB- 95 mph
            Curveball- 79 mph
            2-seam FB- 93 mph
            Changeup- 86 mph
            Slider- 84 mph

            AJ throws a knuckle - curve.
            The "slider" you see is just him holding the knuckle - curve tighter as he releases to get a sharper break.

            Andy Pettitte
            4-Seam FB- 88 mph
            Cutter- 86 mph
            Slider- 83 mph
            Curveball- 75 mph
            Changeup- 80 mph

            Andy has always had a curveball, but recent years that pitch has drastically flattened out resembling more of a slurve-type pitch. I remember early in his career he had that big looping breaking ball. Not so anymore.

            It's hard to decipher, at least for me, if Andy actually has a slider or if it's just his Cutter having more movement.

            Javier Vazquez
            4-seam FB- 92 mph
            Slider- 84 mph
            Changeup- 80 mph
            Curveball- 73 mph

            I gave Javier a running fastball just because his it has alot of movement to it.


            Phil Hughes
            4-seam FB- 94 mph
            Curveball- 77 mph
            Cutter- 90 mph
            Slider- 88 mph
            Changeup- 84 mph

            He dropped the slider in favor of the cutter last year.
            Phil also throws a Knuckle - Curve.

            Alfredo Aceves
            4-seam FB- 91 mph
            Changeup- 83 mph
            Curveball- 79 mph
            Cutter- 88 mph

            Alfredo throws a circle - change

            David Robertson
            4-seam FB- 91 mph
            Curveball- 80
            Slider- 88

            David throws a cutter. And his fastballs actually have a natural cutting action to it as well.

            Sergio Mitre
            4-seam FB- 91 mph
            2-seam FB- 91 mph
            Changeup-84 mph
            Curveball- 78 mph
            Slider- 79 mph

            I don't think he throws a 4 - Seamer. I don't think he throws anything straight really

            Joba Chamberlain
            4-seam FB- 94 mph
            Slider- 86 mph
            Curveball- 79 mph
            Changeup- 83 mph

            Chan-Ho Park
            4-seam FB- 91 mph
            Slider- 85 mph
            Curve- 78 mph
            Change- 84 mph

            Damaso Marte
            4-seam FB- 92 mph
            Slider- 81 mph
            Changeup- 83 mph

            Mariano Rivera
            4-seam FB- 91 mph
            Cutter- 92 mph
            2-seam FB- 90 mph

            I had to give him another pitch, but he rarely uses a 2-seam...


            So that's my two cents.
            ______________________________________________

            ~ E
            Erick Nolasco

            Nolasco.Erick@Gmail.com

            EZE Design.com

            Comment

            • jkra0512
              MVP
              • Sep 2006
              • 2277

              #7
              Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

              Originally posted by Juventino_10
              Great work here.

              What about actual numbers for Control and Break for each pitchers specified pitch ?
              That's the thing, I can't make accurate edits without really having a base to draw from. If someone could teach me how to read these charts for horizontal movement and vertical movement I could possibly come up with something we can work from.

              Basically, I need to figure out who has the best pitch of each type which is VERY subjective. For instance, Zito has a ridiculous curveball in terms of 12-6 break but does he have the best 12-6 curve in the league?

              My other question is, should we lump this in with Rob_NYY's "NYY Roster Edits - MLB 10" thread? Just so we can have a huge Yankees themed roster edit.

              Comment

              • RAZRr1275
                All Star
                • Sep 2007
                • 9918

                #8
                Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

                I'm not going to give a full breakdown but your on the right track. A couple things though. For the guy that suggested knuckle curves that is correct but in this game the knuckle curves don't get as much break as the pitchers curves do in real life. I'm using a sweeping curve for burnett and a 12-6 for hughes. Sabathia should have a running fb or 2sfb because of the movement. Vasquez should also have a sinker as a primary.
                My latest project - Madden 12 http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2043231648

                Comment

                • jkra0512
                  MVP
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 2277

                  #9
                  Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

                  Originally posted by Erick
                  CC Sabathia
                  4-Seam FB- 94 mph
                  Slider- 82 mph
                  Change-up- 85 mph
                  Slurve- 79 mph

                  Changeup is straight but he holds it with a Circle - Change grip.
                  I too only thought he thew a slurve.
                  Last year CC was changing his grip on the 4 seamer to create more movement. I noticed it throughout the playoffs as his fastball had more tail as opposed to in the past.

                  I like the idea of using the slurve instead of both. I could've sworn he throws both though, but it could be that his slurve is just flattening out and has more velocity, which technically is a slider but...well you get the picture.


                  AJ Burnett
                  4-Seam FB- 95 mph
                  Curveball- 79 mph
                  2-seam FB- 93 mph
                  Changeup- 86 mph
                  Slider- 84 mph

                  AJ throws a knuckle - curve.
                  The "slider" you see is just him holding the knuckle - curve tighter as he releases to get a sharper break.

                  So what do you propose we do then? Get rid of the slider and curveball in favor of a knuckle-curve? I like that idea, just give the knuckle-curve more velocity and decent break and we're in business.

                  Andy Pettitte
                  4-Seam FB- 88 mph
                  Cutter- 86 mph
                  Slider- 83 mph
                  Curveball- 75 mph
                  Changeup- 80 mph

                  Andy has always had a curveball, but recent years that pitch has drastically flattened out resembling more of a slurve-type pitch. I remember early in his career he had that big looping breaking ball. Not so anymore.

                  It's hard to decipher, at least for me, if Andy actually has a slider or if it's just his Cutter having more movement.

                  You know I agree with you, I think he just owns a cutter and his "slider" is just him loosening up the grip and trading speed for more break. I, too, remember the looping curve he had and agree with giving him just slurve instead of a slider and curve

                  Javier Vazquez
                  4-seam FB- 92 mph
                  Slider- 84 mph
                  Changeup- 80 mph
                  Curveball- 73 mph

                  I gave Javier a running fastball just because his it has alot of movement to it.

                  Did you keep it at the same speed?

                  Phil Hughes
                  4-seam FB- 94 mph
                  Curveball- 77 mph
                  Cutter- 90 mph
                  Slider- 88 mph
                  Changeup- 84 mph

                  He dropped the slider in favor of the cutter last year.
                  Phil also throws a Knuckle - Curve.

                  So you got rid of the slider and and curve in favor of the knuckle-curve? What about trading changeup for circle-change?

                  Alfredo Aceves
                  4-seam FB- 91 mph
                  Changeup- 83 mph
                  Curveball- 79 mph
                  Cutter- 88 mph

                  Alfredo throws a circle - change

                  David Robertson
                  4-seam FB- 91 mph
                  Curveball- 80
                  Slider- 88

                  David throws a cutter. And his fastballs actually have a natural cutting action to it as well.

                  Is he a Running Fastball candidate? I know his curveball is straight ridiculous when he's on...break is absolutely devestating

                  Sergio Mitre
                  4-seam FB- 91 mph
                  2-seam FB- 91 mph
                  Changeup-84 mph
                  Curveball- 78 mph
                  Slider- 79 mph

                  I don't think he throws a 4 - Seamer. I don't think he throws anything straight really

                  Give him a Running FB instead of a 4-seamer? Should the change then be a circle-change?

                  Joba Chamberlain
                  4-seam FB- 94 mph
                  Slider- 86 mph
                  Curveball- 79 mph
                  Changeup- 83 mph

                  Chan-Ho Park
                  4-seam FB- 91 mph
                  Slider- 85 mph
                  Curve- 78 mph
                  Change- 84 mph

                  Damaso Marte
                  4-seam FB- 92 mph
                  Slider- 81 mph
                  Changeup- 83 mph

                  Mariano Rivera
                  4-seam FB- 91 mph
                  Cutter- 92 mph
                  2-seam FB- 90 mph

                  I had to give him another pitch, but he rarely uses a 2-seam...


                  So that's my two cents.
                  I wrote everything in red for you to look at. I think most of what you said is right...

                  Comment

                  • jkra0512
                    MVP
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 2277

                    #10
                    Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

                    Originally posted by RAZRr1275
                    I'm not going to give a full breakdown but your on the right track. A couple things though. For the guy that suggested knuckle curves that is correct but in this game the knuckle curves don't get as much break as the pitchers curves do in real life. I'm using a sweeping curve for burnett and a 12-6 for hughes. Sabathia should have a running fb or 2sfb because of the movement. Vasquez should also have a sinker as a primary.
                    Thanks Razr, I'm looking forward to your edits! I'm just trying to get an idea of how to do this and what to look for. Plus, it's a good discussion! Thanks again for your input.

                    Comment

                    • ElroyJetson
                      MVP
                      • Apr 2007
                      • 1861

                      #11
                      Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

                      Originally posted by jkra0512
                      That's the thing, I can't make accurate edits without really having a base to draw from. If someone could teach me how to read these charts for horizontal movement and vertical movement I could possibly come up with something we can work from.

                      Basically, I need to figure out who has the best pitch of each type which is VERY subjective. For instance, Zito has a ridiculous curveball in terms of 12-6 break but does he have the best 12-6 curve in the league?

                      My other question is, should we lump this in with Rob_NYY's "NYY Roster Edits - MLB 10" thread? Just so we can have a huge Yankees themed roster edit.
                      I think it would be a good idea to just add this to Rob's Yankee thread
                      PSN - SwangKang169
                      Yankees
                      Miami Hurricanes
                      Minnesota Vikings
                      JetLife

                      Comment

                      • Erick
                        Rookie
                        • Jun 2008
                        • 128

                        #12
                        Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

                        It really depends upon what you feel is right. I like to base each pitcher off of what they throw in real life. RAZR has a different approach.

                        It's really up to you what satisfies you. I'm just giving you my take.

                        The problem I get with these pitch edits is that pitchers will have a few variations of a certain pitch so it's hard to give them any specific type of pitch at all.

                        Burnett for example, has that curve that he can change speed, angle and depth depending on how he holds it. Same goes for many other pitchers.
                        ______________________________________________

                        ~ E
                        Erick Nolasco

                        Nolasco.Erick@Gmail.com

                        EZE Design.com

                        Comment

                        • RAZRr1275
                          All Star
                          • Sep 2007
                          • 9918

                          #13
                          Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

                          Originally posted by Erick
                          It really depends upon what you feel is right. I like to base each pitcher off of what they throw in real life. RAZR has a different approach.

                          It's really up to you what satisfies you. I'm just giving you my take.

                          The problem I get with these pitch edits is that pitchers will have a few variations of a certain pitch so it's hard to give them any specific type of pitch at all.

                          Burnett for example, has that curve that he can change speed, angle and depth depending on how he holds it. Same goes for many other pitchers.
                          Yeah I like to go based on the break of the pitch.

                          I agree about the variations. SCEA really needs to put something in so that we can set that.
                          My latest project - Madden 12 http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2043231648

                          Comment

                          • jkra0512
                            MVP
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 2277

                            #14
                            Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

                            Ok so I did a little research and I think I understand how V-movement on pitchfx. Here's an example using three pitchers who feature a sinker (these numbers were taken from fangraphs.com).

                            Brandon Webb: Drops on average 9.3 in.
                            Derek Lowe: Drops on average 9.7 in.
                            Javier Vazquez: Drops on average 8.9 in.

                            These are all on a 3-year average. Now the question is, how do we translate this to the game? It'd be nice if we could just give Webb a 93 for break on his sinker, Lowe a 97, and Vazquez but that's not going to work...lol

                            Comment

                            • RAZRr1275
                              All Star
                              • Sep 2007
                              • 9918

                              #15
                              Re: NY Yankees Pitching Edits

                              Originally posted by jkra0512
                              Ok so I did a little research and I think I understand how V-movement on pitchfx. Here's an example using three pitchers who feature a sinker (these numbers were taken from fangraphs.com).

                              Brandon Webb: Drops on average 9.3 in.
                              Derek Lowe: Drops on average 9.7 in.
                              Javier Vazquez: Drops on average 8.9 in.

                              These are all on a 3-year average. Now the question is, how do we translate this to the game? It'd be nice if we could just give Webb a 93 for break on his sinker, Lowe a 97, and Vazquez but that's not going to work...lol
                              I'd have to look into that on a wider scale but actually i'd say just shifting the decimal point over like that is close to accurate for those guys.
                              My latest project - Madden 12 http://www.operationsports.com/forum...post2043231648

                              Comment

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