Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations) - Operation Sports Forums

Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

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  • nogster
    MVP
    • Mar 2006
    • 3828

    #1

    Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

    As the vets of this place would know, I am a long time roster editor/creator who since before NBA2k on the dreamcast, has edited rosters to improve the single player and/or CPU gameplay.

    I am back at it this year, currently creating a custom roster that will include many legends and superstars from the 80s to now.
    Anyways, through my repeated editing and subsequent testing I have found a few things that will help you other roster editors out. (If you haven't discovered it already.


    1. Current team playbooks have hardcoded sets that take precedent over plays. This makes the "run plays" coaching slider practically redundant.
    This hard code also lessens the impact of the touches tendency for the most part.
    This was an issue in 2k21. Made it very difficult to edit rosters and get teams and players to respond to edits and not overuse a particular player without significantly lowering their touches tendency thus causing issues down the stretch.
    This was not a problem with 2k23. But it's back in 2k25. (I skipped 2k24)
    The fix is to replace the current playbook with a classic or user playbook. Then adjust the suitable plays for said team.

    The non current playbooks don't seem to be "hard coded" and will actually respond to your edits and much more often utilise the plays you put in the playbook. And "run plays" coaching slider will actually be effective.

    This is a must for you hardcore roster editors who want a better cpu gameplay experience.

    I will post here and inform on any more findings as i continue to create and edit this roster.
    My goal is to have a cpu v cpu myleague. Where I control every team and "watch" every game, jumping in when i see fit or when i have time.
    I did it for 2k23 and it was my greatest roster.
    A full NBA gaming nerd experience!!

    If you guys have other findings that may help other like minded roster makers, post it here.
  • taildog
    MVP
    • Jun 2008
    • 1161

    #2
    Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

    What do you mean by hard coded in this context? Sounds like you’re referring to series or freelance. Do you have video evidence of what you’re talking about?
    NBA 2K23 - OFFICIAL TRIANGLE SYSTEM THREAD

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    • nogster
      MVP
      • Mar 2006
      • 3828

      #3
      Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

      What I mean is the current teams playlist does not properly adhere to touch tendencies, coach profile run plays slider and the actual plays.
      It seems to me, after a lot of testing and experimenting that the current playbooks have freelance plays that take precedence. And we have no way of editing these when creating rosters. You will see plays occur that are not in the playbook at all. And if you make personal changes.
      Ie: I am adding some retired stars to current rosters. So Stockton and malone to jazz.
      Then after editing their tendencies, playbooks etc and testing the gameplay. Markkanen gets all the preference and i am seeing sets that are not in the playbook at all. So i changed the playbook to 97 jazz playbook. And used all the same plays I edited with the current jazz playbook. And straight away, Stockton and malone started running the plays i set them to and markkanen played more like the glorified spot shooter I wanted him to be with this roster.
      This is just 1 example. The 1st glaring example was the clippers. I added Paul and Griffin to the team and moved Harden to Rockets.
      Edited and tested and using the current playbook all I was seeing was Leonard hogging over and over. So again, I changed their playbook to an older teams playbook, but adjusted the plays to what I had them set to with the clips current playbook and straight away, Paul and griffin started running plays i set, mixed with leonard plays.
      There is a clear difference.

      Simply put.
      The non current playbooks seem to be a lot more responsive to edits and plays. Because I suspect the current playbooks have freelance set as precedence designed to accentuate that teams star.

      Feel free to test this yourselves.
      Last edited by nogster; 09-18-2024, 07:21 AM.

      Comment

      • BiTractBANNED
        Banned
        • Oct 2021
        • 108

        #4
        Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

        Seeing the year '02 on the Grizzlies playbook is so off-putting when it's already 2016. Especially knowing when they reuse the same Vancouver Grizzlies court for Lebron and Steph eras in the 2010s. AND the '12-13 Grizzlies AS WELL as '05-06 Grizzlies are in the same with the authentic court. I understand some old plays still get used in the late 2010s but it's just so bad and the home court Grizzlies are unusable in MyNBA sims for a majority of casual players when even the wrong courts are being imported from era to era. I'm getting nitpicky with the '02 plays stuff being labeled since it's all across the league in every playbook but how much space in the game does it actually take to just duplicate the same play and rename it to a more non-immense experience breaking name?
        (Apologize in advance for the discretion of low 60 overall generic players. They're going to be eradicated from the roster, as per every year)
        Attached Files

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        • Baebae32
          Pro
          • Nov 2015
          • 878

          #5
          Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

          Thank you for posting this. Well test this with my ficitinonal roster. I do see repeating of the same actions (mainly away action and floppy action). So will create a retro playbook with current plays and report back

          Comment

          • 1CK1S
            Rookie
            • Sep 2016
            • 224

            #6
            Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

            So is this the reason why scoring PG's play like prime Kobe and take every shot on every possession?

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            • CelticLG
              MVP
              • Nov 2014
              • 1903

              #7
              Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

              Originally posted by 1CK1S
              So is this the reason why scoring PG's play like prime Kobe and take every shot on every possession?
              Play discipline tendency is wrongfully rated for both stars and role players, so the offense is star-centric

              Comment

              • Cycloniac
                Man, myth, legend.
                • May 2009
                • 6467

                #8
                Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

                So, is the workaround to create custom playbooks and move the plays from current into them?

                Eg create custom Nuggets playbook, move all plays from current Nuggets playbook to custom one, and use?
                THE TrueSim PROJECTS



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                • nogster
                  MVP
                  • Mar 2006
                  • 3828

                  #9
                  Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

                  Originally posted by Cycloniac
                  So, is the workaround to create custom playbooks and move the plays from current into them?

                  Eg create custom Nuggets playbook, move all plays from current Nuggets playbook to custom one, and use?
                  Yes. That is correct.
                  It's very easy to do as you can save the plays.
                  So customise the teams playbook to your liking. Save it. Then simply change the playbook to either a classic team or a generic playbook. Then go to the playbook menu and load the plays you saved.
                  This will overwrite the classic or generic playbook with the plays you set for that team but not carry over the annoying freelance "hardcode" (the only way I can describe it.

                  I guarantee you will notice a marked difference. Like, it is clear.
                  I also advise putting "run plays" coach slider to 99 for all teams and ypu will notice the plays actually being utilised based on the players touch tendencies and rating etc.....

                  Comment

                  • nogster
                    MVP
                    • Mar 2006
                    • 3828

                    #10
                    Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

                    The key then, like it always is, is to tinker and test the teams players touch tendencies so that you get the right players getting the right touches in a balanced way.
                    Sometimes it could literally just be a 1pt add or subtract that makes a huge difference to how the cpu calls the plays.

                    Comment

                    • Cycloniac
                      Man, myth, legend.
                      • May 2009
                      • 6467

                      #11
                      Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

                      Originally posted by nogster
                      Yes. That is correct.
                      It's very easy to do as you can save the plays.
                      So customise the teams playbook to your liking. Save it. Then simply change the playbook to either a classic team or a generic playbook. Then go to the playbook menu and load the plays you saved.
                      This will overwrite the classic or generic playbook with the plays you set for that team but not carry over the annoying freelance "hardcode" (the only way I can describe it.

                      I guarantee you will notice a marked difference. Like, it is clear.
                      I also advise putting "run plays" coach slider to 99 for all teams and ypu will notice the plays actually being utilised based on the players touch tendencies and rating etc.....
                      I did try this, and I noticed the different right away. Well done.

                      I'm curious on two things:
                      Run plays - I usually set this to 100 out of habit, but what do you notice with it set at say 50? Just more freelance?

                      Coach Points of Emphasis - I noticed that by default, teams aren't just set to neutral in each category. Do these still only affect sim stats in your experience?
                      THE TrueSim PROJECTS



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                      • nogster
                        MVP
                        • Mar 2006
                        • 3828

                        #12
                        Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

                        Originally posted by Cycloniac
                        I did try this, and I noticed the different right away. Well done.

                        I'm curious on two things:
                        Run plays - I usually set this to 100 out of habit, but what do you notice with it set at say 50? Just more freelance?

                        Coach Points of Emphasis - I noticed that by default, teams aren't just set to neutral in each category. Do these still only affect sim stats in your experience?
                        1. I do the same as you and have done for many iterations of 2k. That is set the run plays slider to 99.
                        I feel more variety of plays are called. It's very subtle though. More subtle than I would like but like you, it's just what I have always done once I discovered the cpu played a better game with more variety (provided your ratings and tendency edits are done well enough.).

                        2. Honestly. I think the "points of emphasis" is more window dressing than an actual gameplay behaviour adjusting tool that it should be.
                        I still set them as how I see that teams style to be. But yeah I think it does little to the actual gameplay. The differences are too subtle imo.
                        Same with system proficiency.
                        I think that is more for franchise, sim thing than actual gameplay team behaviour changing. Cause I have never seen an actual marked, quantitative difference like you see regarding the finding I posted on this thread.
                        Last edited by nogster; 09-20-2024, 01:47 AM.

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                        • Real2KInsider
                          MVP
                          • Dec 2003
                          • 4644

                          #13
                          Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

                          Originally posted by nogster
                          1. Current team playbooks have hardcoded sets that take precedent over plays. This makes the "run plays" coaching slider practically redundant.
                          So basically, ACE coding is tied to the Playbook.
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                          • nogster
                            MVP
                            • Mar 2006
                            • 3828

                            #14
                            Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

                            Originally posted by Real2KInsider
                            So basically, ACE coding is tied to the Playbook.
                            Yeah, very likely Rashidi.

                            There is a legit, standout difference when making the adjustments i suggest.

                            Ace does and has always sucked.
                            Last edited by nogster; 09-20-2024, 01:55 AM.

                            Comment

                            • Real2KInsider
                              MVP
                              • Dec 2003
                              • 4644

                              #15
                              Re: Att: Roster makers. (Some findings and observations)

                              Originally posted by nogster
                              Yeah, very likely Rashidi.

                              There is a legit, standout difference when making the adjustments i suggest.

                              Ace does and has always sucked.
                              ACE is DaCzar's brainchild

                              It has potential but I suspect many of the coded aspects are too heavy-handed and probably don't have a statistical backing (arbitrary feel / minimal testing).

                              A lot of it is "If Player X is present with Y lineup conditions"

                              I.E. Stockton/Malone are only going to feel like Stockton/Malone w/ the respective-Era Jazz playbook.
                              If you gave John Stockton's Tendencies etc to Howard Eisley, they likely wouldn't play the same. I believe ACE is checking for the Player ID.
                              Last edited by Real2KInsider; 09-21-2024, 12:48 AM.
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