What Should Happen in Madden's Passing Game

[roadman]

Re: What Should Happen in Madden's Passing Game

Simple fix for the the online players.

Arcade mode on/off

Online can have no injury's, stamina, penalty's.

I work for the Packers in IT and I am the one that setups up Madden in the game room for the players. Not one player wants the game arcade. They all want Sim.

If I was a NFL pro football player, I would want the football game play out like I do too.

And for reasons listed above by CM Hooe and jfsolo, that is probably why we haven't seen a sim/arcade mode.

It's been a subject over the last few years with no answers until CM Hooe provided one above from another EA developer.

[roadman]

Re: What Should Happen in Madden's Passing Game

I think you make a good point, by I fundamentally disagree with this. I do think you are right, that a tourney player wouldn't want this in the game, BUT we are talking about making a football simulation. If you don't want your qb to fumble the snap with :02 left, don't use a qb with low awareness. There is a reason good teams are good in the NFL, and I feel it should be for the same reasons in madden. If I use a good team, and you use a good team, the better coach(user) should win 9/10 times. Biggest problem I've seen a lot of guys have is because a guy can take a team with speed skill players and exploit the game. I'd much rather have to beat someone on Witt rather than exploiting the game, which I feel this passing model would help a lot with. It would be a huge step towards more of a football simulation, instead of just a video game.

In all honesty, EA could easily make two madden football games. One for arcade/tourney players and one strictly dedicated to a football simulation. This would be the only way to cater to everyone at this point, IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It might be the only way, but probably too costly without adding more revenue on the surface.

They had two games a few years ago, but not enough sales to go around with two games.

[Mike Lowe]

Foremost, let me be clear and say I'm firmly in the "sim" bucket of players and would be cool with seeing all these changes. That said, let me present a counterpoint:

You are a professional Madden player (yes, they exist; I was surprised to learn this too). You are playing in the finals of the Madden Challenge with your Ultimate Team against some other highly-ranked Madden player. You have 4th and goal on your opponent's goal line with four seconds left, needing a touchdown to win the game. You call a draw play out of a shotgun spread formation (for whatever reason, the play call isn't the important part here). When you go to snap the ball, the center sails the ball over your QB's head. Your QB recovers the ball, but is promptly tackled. Your opponent wins the Madden Challenge and the $25,000 prize, the game ultimately decided on essentially a dice roll.

This is the sort of play tournament players absolutely to not want in the game. Could it happen in real football? Absolutely. In a competitive video gaming environment where user skill is the preferred arbiter of success? This sort of randomness is absolutely detrimental to that experience.

Heck, the tourney guys don't even really like wide-open incomplete passes; their feeling is that, as long as they make the right read, if the guy is open, they should complete the pass. From their perspective where user skill should trump all, is their opinion wrong? I don't think so. I also don't think it's proper to just tell these players to "deal with it", given that they are just as large and vital a part of Madden's audience as the sim players are. We're not more important than them, and they aren't more important than us.

There aren't words for how little I sympathize for people who play Madden for money.

[Mike Lowe]

I'm playing you in a tourney, with a 50K prize to the winner and 5K to the 2nd place guy. You are down by 1 with :02 on the clock with the ball at the 10. Easy FG range, you get a botched snap and I tackle the holder, game over. You just lost 45K because of a dice roll, how do you feel?

I'd feel Like Tony Romo against Seattle.

I would say folks should try and learn to deal with it. There are bigger problems in life, and perhaps "kids these days" need more lessons like that.

I mean, as a Lions fan, this past season alone taught me enough about football to not take it too seriously, or else I'd have jumped off a bridge by now ha

[Gridiron]

Re: What Should Happen in Madden's Passing Game

I don't think you would be saying that if it was you that lost the 25 grand on a dice roll on the last play of the game. Tourney players want nothing of that.

And this is absolutely the reason why there are no bad snaps in Madden.

Theyre not capable of making certain things not trigger online and certain things trigger offline?

Playing 2K5 in first person mode with WR switching on, it made me realize that it can work to have the player have to do something at different points of the play to make sure the outcome is good. In FPF, it would switch to the WR and you had to do something to ensure the catch, if you failed you dropped the pass. For bad snaps, they could have it where you have to remember to press a button or short combo of buttons before each snap or something. If you dont the snap is bad and may not be caught. Might be tense for field goals too where if you screw up, the snap and or the hold could be bad and affect the kick.

Blitz The League had something similar for kicks and it did add a layer of challenge. Thought it was dope.

[roadman]

Re: What Should Happen in Madden's Passing Game

Theyre not capable of making certain things not trigger online and certain things trigger offline?

Playing 2K5 in first person mode with WR switching on, it made me realize that it can work to have the player have to do something at different points of the play to make sure the outcome is good. In FPF, it would switch to the WR and you had to do something to ensure the catch, if you failed you dropped the pass. For bad snaps, they could have it where you have to remember to press a button or short combo of buttons before each snap or something. If you dont the snap is bad and may not be caught. Might be tense for field goals too where if you screw up, the snap and or the hold could be bad and affect the kick.

Blitz The League had something similar for kicks and it did add a layer of challenge. Thought it was dope.

I'm sure they could, but you have another developer from EA(WWE) that CM Hooe linked stated that it's very costly and time consuming to flip switches online and offline.

Don't forget, they are using old code from the old Maddens of yesteryear.

[Gridiron]

Re: What Should Happen in Madden's Passing Game

I'm sure they could, but you have another developer from EA(WWE) that CM Hooe linked stated that it's very costly and time consuming to flip switches online and offline.

Don't forget, they are using old code from the old Maddens of yesteryear.

True. Good points there.

[JayWoods]

One of the best articles I've read on here. Good ideas through and through.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: What Should Happen in Madden's Passing Game

That randomness is bad for tourney players is a terrible reason not to have it. Nothing makes a game boring faster than when it becomes predictable and repetitive.

That madden developers don't want to add more "anything can happen" moments because a guy might lose money on a tourney is sad. Still I know it's true too.

[Kornnickel55]

Foremost, let me be clear and say I'm firmly in the "sim" bucket of players and would be cool with seeing all these changes. That said, let me present a counterpoint:

You are a professional Madden player (yes, they exist; I was surprised to learn this too). You are playing in the finals of the Madden Challenge with your Ultimate Team against some other highly-ranked Madden player. You have 4th and goal on your opponent's goal line with four seconds left, needing a touchdown to win the game. You call a draw play out of a shotgun spread formation (for whatever reason, the play call isn't the important part here). When you go to snap the ball, the center sails the ball over your QB's head. Your QB recovers the ball, but is promptly tackled. Your opponent wins the Madden Challenge and the $25,000 prize, the game ultimately decided on essentially a dice roll.

This is the sort of play tournament players absolutely to not want in the game. Could it happen in real football? Absolutely. In a competitive video gaming environment where user skill is the preferred arbiter of success? This sort of randomness is absolutely detrimental to that experience.

Heck, the tourney guys don't even really like wide-open incomplete passes; their feeling is that, as long as they make the right read, if the guy is open, they should complete the pass. From their perspective where user skill should trump all, is their opinion wrong? I don't think so. I also don't think it's proper to just tell these players to "deal with it", given that they are just as large and vital a part of Madden's audience as the sim players are. We're not more important than them, and they aren't more important than us.

Have a Tournament Mode for those players!

[Kornnickel55]

I would be ok with a lot of that stuff, but fumbling snaps and stumbling on the snaps would become irritating only because you have no control over that.. yea i want as much of a sim aspect as possible, but i also want total control. Like if there is a control for snaps other than hiking and like a control for the catch and drop back and if you mistimed it, then there are consequences then i would be ok with that.

I like this idea! Maybe a meter like when kicking a field goal for snaps.....that vary depending on awareness or a snap attribute for Olinemen. That would make it hard for people to move a Tackle to Center with no remorse

[Kornnickel55]

I feel like Madden really needs to adderess the Oline. This area needs major attention. This is the root of the problem to me with the passing game. I play CFM with 31 other players and certain conversations keep coming up.

- The 3 man rush beating 5 Olineman
- High rated QB's throwing the ball directly to the other team.....no pressure, not throwing off the back foot.

to name a few.....I just believe the Oline vs Dline needs to be adderessed.

[IlluminatusUIUC]

Re: What Should Happen in Madden's Passing Game

Hold on, slow down. The idea that no one could tolerate randomness in Madden tourneys is a little off-base. There's randomness in poker and that doesn't stop people from playing it for vast amounts of money every day.

The issue is that the game is intentionally shortened to make it more palatable. You can have realistic results on a per-play basis or a per-game basis, but not both. EA has settled on the latter.

So, if you are going to have "realistic" scores and "realistic" stats but only play 1/3 the plays, then obviously those plays are going to have to be more productive - and that's what happens. QBs hit for 80-90% completions on the regular. Wideouts rarely drop passes. etc. Even the best offense in NFL history, the 2013 Broncos, punted more than 4 times a game on average. If you punt 4 times in most games of Madden, it means you dun screwed up

[roadman]

Re: What Should Happen in Madden's Passing Game

Hold on, slow down. The idea that no one could tolerate randomness in Madden tourneys is a little off-base. There's randomness in poker and that doesn't stop people from playing it for vast amounts of money every day.

The issue is that the game is intentionally shortened to make it more palatable. You can have realistic results on a per-play basis or a per-game basis, but not both. EA has settled on the latter.

So, if you are going to have "realistic" scores and "realistic" stats but only play 1/3 the plays, then obviously those plays are going to have to be more productive - and that's what happens. QBs hit for 80-90% completions on the regular. Wideouts rarely drop passes. etc. Even the best offense in NFL history, the 2013 Broncos, punted more than 4 times a game on average. If you punt 4 times in most games of Madden, it means you dun screwed up

Actually, one of the developers did say that about tourney players about a year or two ago.

[Mike Lowe]

Re: What Should Happen in Madden's Passing Game

One of the best articles I've read on here. Good ideas through and through.

Much appreciate. Thank you for the kind words!