NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

[dirkit247]

You can't be serious. How can you possibly prefer the shooting to be based more off user rating than user timing? That's so ridiculous and it irritates me that someone would even say that. 2k is already non user controlled enough and you're telling me you want it to be LESS user controlled? How does that make any sense? Every game is supposed to be user skill based with consideration to the players individual attributes, not just "oh, let me tap this button and let the player decide if he wants to do this or not". 2k is already 80 percent non user controlled, where even the running has been controlled by the developers, just because they refuse to implement a physics based system where players collide realistically in order to stop the player from going a certain direction. Instead, we have to deal with the developers controlling the running, making the players hesitate to run up the court just so you can't exploit fast breaks. Do not get me wrong, I don't want to just run up the court and score, but I don't want it to be because I CAN'T run because the developers made the game so that I can't do it even if I wanted to, rather than implementing a system that's more realistic where the defender alters where I go by getting in the way and colliding. There are so much more things You can't be serious. How can you possibly prefer the shooting to be based more off user rating than user timing? That's so ridiculous and it irritates me that someone would even say that. 2k is already non user controlled enough and you're telling me you want it to be LESS user controlled? How does that make any sense? Every game is supposed to be user skill based with consideration to the players individual attributes, not just "oh, let me tap this button and let the player decide if he wants to do this or not". 2k is already 80 percent non user controlled, where even the running has been controlled by the developers, just because they refuse to implement a physics based system where players collide realistically in order to stop the player from going a certain direction. Instead, we have to deal with the developers controlling the running, making the players hesitate to run up the court just so you can't exploit fast breaks. Do not get me wrong, I don't want to just run up the court and score, but I don't want it to be because I CAN'T run because the developers made the game so that I can't do it even if I wanted to, rather than implementing a system that's more realistic where the defender alters where I go by getting in the way and colliding. There are so much more things that are irritating about this game, but I'll stop now before I get banned just for wording my opinion. are irritating about this game, but I'll stop now before I get banned just for wording my opinion.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Ratings don't dictate the outcome, they dictate the best possible outcome, or the ceiling of a players' potential. Right now, shot release is playing more of a factor than ratings in that regard, which breaks the effect of player specificity.

Players should be rewarded for:
-Getting good shooters open(lenient margin of error regarding shot release)
-Forcing the opponent to take too many shots with mediocre players
-Tightly contesting shots on anyone
-Even more so for contesting shots on mediocre shooters

Players with excellent stick skills see the benefit in that they take advantage of all good opportunities. If you don't create a good opportunity (offensively, a reasonably open shot with a star player in his comfort zone, or a very open shot for a lesser skilled player) you should not have your shot release skills bail you out very often.

Green releases need to be capped according to fatigue, player rating, badges and defensive positioning.

Thanks, Lorenzo, hope to see you on Friday!

[tetoleetd]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

look what we have here. we have an official post by OS about this issue.

and yall tried to tell me i was crazy or playing the game wrong when i brought this issue up right after the patch lol. smh.

[steelers99_58_36]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

"If both teams play solid defense, I can believe that a player might go 80% from the field from time to time, but it definitely shouldn't be the norm."

WHAT!?!?! 80%!?!?! That is unheard of... that's insane... it's ludicrous. If you're telling me that from time to time a player might be able to hit 80% of their shots with their team throughout a full game then that's just ridiculous. If they think that from time to time teams hit 80% of their shots in a game then it's no wonder why shooting is joke in this game now, based on that logic.

Also there is no way in hell that this is true:

Wide open = 45%
Fully Contested = 35%
Heavily Contested = 10%

Wide open = 60%
Fully Contested = 20%
Heavily Contested = 10%

[tetoleetd]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

"If both teams play solid defense, I can believe that a player might go 80% from the field from time to time, but it definitely shouldn't be the norm."

WHAT!?!?! 80%!?!?! That is unheard of... that's insane... it's ludicrous. If you're telling me that from time to time a player might be able to hit 80% of their shots with their team throughout a full game then that's just ridiculous. If they think that from time to time teams hit 80% of their shots in a game then it's no wonder why shooting is joke in this game now, based on that logic.

Also there is no way in hell that this is true:

Wide open = 45%
Fully Contested = 35%
Heavily Contested = 10%

Wide open = 60%
Fully Contested = 20%
Heavily Contested = 10%

they said that a PLAYER may occasionally make 80% of his shots, not a whole team.

and yes that does happen quite frequently in the NBA where a player has a game where he barely misses.

but yes, the shooting is still messed up and needs to be fixed.

right now im stuck. ive been trying to play on hall of fame but i just find it to be too cheesy and no fun. but when i play on superstar its just too easy to make shots.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

"If both teams play solid defense, I can believe that a player might go 80% from the field from time to time, but it definitely shouldn't be the norm."

WHAT!?!?! 80%!?!?! That is unheard of... that's insane... it's ludicrous. If you're telling me that from time to time a player might be able to hit 80% of their shots with their team throughout a full game then that's just ridiculous. If they think that from time to time teams hit 80% of their shots in a game then it's no wonder why shooting is joke in this game now, based on that logic.

Also there is no way in hell that this is true:

Wide open = 45%
Fully Contested = 35%
Heavily Contested = 10%

Wide open = 60%
Fully Contested = 20%
Heavily Contested = 10%

Al Horford was 20/22 over the course of two games this year, and probably went on some decent stretches like that, largely on mid range jumpers. It's a shot that the Hawks create regularly for him, and he's great at it. While this doesn't happen over the course of a season, this does happen more consistently against opponents that play poor defense. Look at how good offensive teams and players play against the really bad defenses.

You see some silly numbers across the board.

When two humans play 2k, if they both aren't playing at least adequate defense, you'll SHOULD see some silly numbers, otherwise that means that 2k has artificial caps on the player having nothing to do with control. We don't want the game capped by a Random Number Generator, right?

So it's really on 2k to allow us to play good, consistent defense. That part is up for debate, but we can't just sit here and talk about numbers without talking about defense, ratings, fatigue and offensive player skill.

[steelers99_58_36]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

they said that a PLAYER may occasionally make 80% of his shots, not a whole team.

and yes that does happen quite frequently in the NBA where a player has a game where he barely misses.

but yes, the shooting is still messed up and needs to be fixed.

right now im stuck. ive been trying to play on hall of fame but i just find it to be too cheesy and no fun. but when i play on superstar its just too easy to make shots.

Oh. Well I guess I misinterpreted it as a whole team not a single player. A single player makes sense not a whole team though. But still I'm seeing guys going well over 50% online as a whole team and at the park, which was pretty much a joke already, throwing up fading, top key threes and absolutely nailing them.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Oh. Well I guess I misinterpreted it as a whole team not a single player. A single player makes sense not a whole team though. But still I'm seeing guys going well over 50% online as a whole team and at the park, which was pretty much a joke already, throwing up fading, top key threes and absolutely nailing them.

My Park is athletic freaks with GOAT ratings in a full court 3 on 3 game. While it needs to be tweaked to be fun, it's unreasonable to compare it to a realistic game in any way. It is, by design, an arcade mode.

[steelers99_58_36]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Al Horford was 20/22 over the course of two games this year, and probably went on some decent stretches like that, largely on mid range jumpers. It's a shot that the Hawks create regularly for him, and he's great at it. While this doesn't happen over the course of a season, this does happen more consistently against opponents that play poor defense. Look at how good offensive teams and players play against the really bad defenses.

You see some silly numbers across the board.

When two humans play 2k, if they both aren't playing at least adequate defense, you'll SHOULD see some silly numbers, otherwise that means that 2k has artificial caps on the player having nothing to do with control. We don't want the game capped by a Random Number Generator, right?

So it's really on 2k to allow us to play good, consistent defense. That part is up for debate, but we can't just sit here and talk about numbers without talking about defense, ratings, fatigue and offensive player skill.

Totally see what you're saying, I thought he was saying whole teams going 80%, not players. I know that players shoot high percentages like these all the time, but still if you play at the park and quick match at all you'll see guys shooting like this. They're not flukes or hot streaks like something Kyrie had a little bit ago. Players are playing like this game in and game out, online I'm seeing my opponents and I go around 55% all the time, I constantly hit shots I know are well defended and probably shouldn't go in as much as they do and I see the same with the other player too.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Thanks, Lorenzo, hope to see you on Friday!

Unfortunately, the time slot is just bad for me. That's family time. My partner and I go out for dinner Friday nights eastern time and then we watch something streaming or some rental.

It's the routine. After 12+ years, I don't break what's works!

So I catch up on Youtube over the weekend.

[tril]

do not get rid of user timing

a way to resolve this issue is:
the perfect timing needs to be tied to a smaller or bigger window. kind of like the fielding mechanics in baseball.
as of right now that window is the same.

On the higher levels the window would be smaller and less forgiving. the shooting sliders should effect this window also.
the difficulty in this would be getting the timing window to work with the shooter release point.

In addition, 2k needs to really re-emphasize the shooter hot spots, like they did I believe in 2k11 or 12.
defenders should effect this window also.

[NINJAK2]

I'm on x1 so no patch yet. For those irritated about the shooting %'s does changing setting to real fg% help bring them down somewhat?

[Lord Bonium]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

Why not just do something like this (if it's possible to program, i wouldn't know):

Perfect release --> no effect
Slightly early/late --> - 3
Early/late --> - 6
Very early/late --> - 9

Combined with:

Wide open (no defender within about 8 feet) --> + 3
Open (no defender within about 4 feet) --> no effect
Slightly contested (defender within 2-4 feet) --> - 3
Contested (defender is within inches) --> - 6
Heavily contested (multiple defenders within inches) --> -9

[scottyp180]

Have all 3 shot mechanics in the game.

Real Player % = Ratings Based

Shot Meter = Green Releases are automatic (casual and online modes would use this)

User Timing = Green Release is true player rating, -3 slightly late/early, -9 very late/early.

Also let the sliders 50 be actual ratings, why must the Midrange be at 45 and the 3PT be at 47. Beef up the defense 2k, let the default value truly represent the player.

Something like this seems accurate. Timing should have an effect. In my mind what is the point of me playing if ybe shots I take are going to be predetermined by ratings. At the same time I understand the purists that don't want to see a player like Rondo lighting it up like steph curry because someone has mastered his shot.

Like you said the best solution is to give usboptions and the three you suggest are just about perfect. Real percentages for those who want the most accurate results. Strictly timing for users that prefer to have full control. And a final one that sort of takes in account both.

[coached17]

Re: NBA 2K15: Fixing Broken Shot Forms Exposes Flaw in Shooting System

I think if the shot heuristics went back to :

Wide open = 45%
Fully Contested = 35%
Heavily Contested = 10%

Instead of :

Wide open = 60%
Fully Contested = 20%
Heavily Contested = 10%

It will be fine, since the "shot glitches has been fixed". In my opinion it's not the perfect releases that is creating high percentages. It's the fact that more slightly early/late shots are falling at a higher clip.

Based on what I am experiencing in Online Ranked Games....I already believe 2K either went back to this or adjusted it.

Sorry, but I sort of LIKE the shooting system and while it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to miss a Perfect (Green) Release - I've had ONE - it's also very important to mention that it's also basically IMPOSSIBLE to get a Perfect (green) Release on a highly-contested terrible shot.

So....this argument that there are guys out there running around taking terrible contested shots and making them simply because of Green releases is sort of nonsense, to be brutally honest.