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Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

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  • michiganfan8620
    MVP
    • Feb 2013
    • 1524

    #46
    Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

    Originally posted by charter04
    I don't think they are too high in the Madden system. I just hate the total overrating of all players madden does. If you just go by how they compare to the other overrated players then I agree it's about right. It's just hard to get sim games when 50% of the league is 90 overall or higher and if 90 speed is average for a skill player. That is one of the big reason Madden is to fast as far as gameplay goes. IMO
    While yes I can agree that it is a total overrating as far as numbers seem to go. However, the numbers they use seem to go fairly in line with what a player could do in real life in terms of speed. It seems like they travel 40 yards in the right amount of time as compared to 40s for the most part. Yes, some of the technical skills are overrated across the board, but physically, I think Madden is pretty close on most players.
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    • charter04
      Tecmo Super Bowl = GOAT
      • May 2010
      • 5740

      #47
      Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

      Originally posted by Trojan Man
      One thing I would like to see vis-a-vis player ratings is a version of the video stream we got the other day on gameplay that really focuses on the philosophy of the ratings system in Madden and spells out their objectives with various ratings, their methodology for arriving at ratings, etc.

      I have a lot of respect for Rex's and RG's philosophies behind the gameplay stuff we saw, and I think that if Madden tried to articulate a cogent ratings philosophy for public consumption, we would get one of two results, either of which could be good in its way. Either we would learn that there isn't really a coherent philosophy or set of objectives, methodologies, etc., and that would hopefully lead to the development of a cogent philosophy, or we would learn that there is a philosophy in place, we would learn what it is, and then we could live with it and either agree or agree to disagree.

      I would also love to hear something specific about how the game links certain numerical ratings to animation sets. For example, if Khalil Mack has 80 tackle, what does that allow him to do in-game that a player with 70 tackle can't? Or if he has an 84 block shed, what does that allow him to do that a guy with 75 block shed can't do?

      Coming at it that way might enable us to move beyond basic disagreements about numbers to a more function-driven discussion that focuses on how the game renders the data in the gameplay engine. That, to me, is as big a topic of discussion as the raw data discussions that DCEBB pursues.
      I would love that so much. I also want to see them breakdown of sliders too. I just hope they even know the answers. I'm not trying to be funny. I really wonder how much they know about what does what. It seems some ratings do nothing in game. Maybe some are for simmed games. I know it was just confirmed that Pass block strength and footwork and the same in the run block ones don't do anything in game. Clint O said it on twitter.
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      • trey2k198003
        Rookie
        • May 2006
        • 177

        #48
        Losing faith we will ever get franchise mode news don't think the updated at all

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        • charter04
          Tecmo Super Bowl = GOAT
          • May 2010
          • 5740

          #49
          Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

          Originally posted by michiganfan8620
          While yes I can agree that it is a total overrating as far as numbers seem to go. However, the numbers they use seem to go fairly in line with what a player could do in real life in terms of speed. It seems like they travel 40 yards in the right amount of time as compared to 40s for the most part. Yes, some of the technical skills are overrated across the board, but physically, I think Madden is pretty close on most players.
          I have to humbly disagree. IMO they have overrated speed and other physical traits for years. They usually don't even go by the same 40 time equals speed rating that they used for years with rookies in their draft classes and the recruits in NCAA.

          And just to be clear I still like Madden. Warts and all. I'm looking forward to this game. It's a day one digital buy for me. I just get frustrated that they make things worse with some of the things they do to please players, EA, and some fans with these ratings. I know from experience the game plays better and more realistic with more toned down and realistic ratings.
          Last edited by charter04; 07-21-2014, 09:18 PM.
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          • D0WN N DIRTY
            Banned
            • Aug 2012
            • 47

            #50
            Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

            Originally posted by The JareBear
            Something tells me that whoever fifth on the list is tomorrow is going to cause a big debate. I am sure most everyone can agree that Manning, Rodgers, Brady, and Brees are the top four (in any order you want to put them) but that fifth spot is pretty up for grabs IMO.

            As for the rookies, it looks like Mack is going to be a Von Miller type within no time in CFM mode.

            I am glad I don't play in a lot of ranked matches where default rosters are mandatory, these ratings really aren't close at all
            rodgers manning brees brady luck

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            • 4thQtrStre5S
              MVP
              • Nov 2013
              • 3051

              #51
              Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

              Ratings again too high, maybe...I really question the effects of player ratings to begin with, and think it is all or mostly all about slider settings....


              I would like to see more true ratings based on true data, and if that data is available through a webpage like FBGamers - then they should be used....


              I really, want another video that starts with a complete detailed walk through of the slider system, HUM, CPU and Penalty, and how the act, react, interact, depend on, etc. anything and everything in the game...

              At this point, for example, I can tune and fine tune pass blocking by using the "Pass Block" slider, which also has an effect on QB accuracy, which would make sense in a pure time to throw manner, but I think Pass Block rating may go farther than that; but then according to a number of people who have studied sliders, I can further adjust how my Pass blocking or blocking in general produces through penalty sliders such as "False Start," "Offside," and "Clipping."

              SO lets get this thing nailed down; and for at least CPU sliders, "Punt Accuracy," is actually "K.O. Power," and "K.O. Power," is actually "Punt Accuracy." Lets get this worked out damnit....


              Sorry I digressed from pure ratings, but hell, sliders or ratings, same difference....shake my head...

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              • ggsimmonds
                Hall Of Fame
                • Jan 2009
                • 11211

                #52
                Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

                One of the things about ratings is how EA manipulates overalls by adjusting individual attributes.

                My go to example is Joe Flacco. Look back a few seasons ago and check his arm strength. Then check it after he won SB MVP. Then check what it was on the last update this past season.

                Has his arm strength changed? Of course not. EA raises or lowers his THP to achieve a desired overall. Of course they do this for several players, I just cite Joe because I am a Ravens fan and his overall fluctuates frequently. Ray Rice's speed is another example.

                EA/Moore have a preconceived overall in mind for each player so they tweak attributes to reach that goal or.

                This is bad for two reasons.
                First it is manipulation and I don't like that. Second it should tell them there is a problem with Madden's ratings if when they give guys what they believe to be accurate ratings does not result in accurate results.

                Hopefully the new change in gameplay mindset will lead to a change in rating philosophy.

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                • 4thQtrStre5S
                  MVP
                  • Nov 2013
                  • 3051

                  #53
                  Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

                  I really feel that all the warm fuzzy I got from the LiveStream video the other day, has just been destroyed by the fact that the ratings are gonna be the same over-rated, useless numbers.

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                  • Hobbes217
                    Rookie
                    • Jun 2012
                    • 45

                    #54
                    Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

                    I might be the odd one out but I actually support these "high" ratings. First off I'm sure EA wants the top players rated fairly high otherwise they wouldn't be as fun to play with. If Manziel was a 66 and Clowney was a 71 there would be very little hype for the rookie class and the game. Also higher ratings give the players more of an impact. We all know that rookies (some, not all) are going to excel and going to make a huge difference for their teams this year, we just can't always predict who. Other than free agency, without the draft there's not much else to shake up the rosters from year to year.

                    Also there were 256 players drafted and probable a few dozen more UDFA that will make rosters this year. If only 13 rookies are rated 78+ that's only 5% of the new class making it into the upper 70s and being impact starters in the game.

                    Also it could be worse. Remember when Reggie Bush came out as a 87 OVR?
                    MaddenRatings.weebly.com
                    Check out my website! It has hundreds of spreadsheet rosters of official player ratings for Madden NFL, NCAA Football, NBA 2K, and NBA Live games.

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                    • CT Pitbull
                      MVP
                      • Aug 2010
                      • 1683

                      #55
                      Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

                      Originally posted by DCEBB2001
                      OMG these ratings are atrocious again. In what world would any OL have an acceleration that high if you are using real data?

                      In fact, did you know that the average NFL player actually averages a higher SPD rating (top end velocity) than ACC rating (initial velocity as defined by the game)? This continued over-inflation of OVR ratings and attributes must stop. This stuff keeps ruining the game and the developers' credibility, IMO.


                      I KNOW we aren't supposed to do this but "the guy" that does the ratings hasn't got a clue and with the way my Bears depth chart looks, year in and year out I wonder if he has ever seen chicagobears.com or csn Chicago? I have tweeted him changes some years and NOTHING ever gets corrected. I am willing to bet money that the "Czar" will have Josh Morgan or Eric Weems, or maybe even Armanti Edwards listed as our 3rd (slot)WR instead of Marquess Wilson.


                      I see many tweets in my future.


                      And another thing. With all the negative feedback and flack that this guy and EA get about the ratings, I wonder if they have ever thought about changing the method? I wonder if they have ever played a game of Madden with FBG ratings? I wonder if they have ever tested something else while in development?


                      I wonder if they realize that soo many people believe their game plays sooo much better WITHOUT their inflated home grown ratings?
                      Last edited by CT Pitbull; 07-21-2014, 09:58 PM.
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                      • charter04
                        Tecmo Super Bowl = GOAT
                        • May 2010
                        • 5740

                        #56
                        Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

                        Dan, the guy who runs FBG ratings had an interview for that job and they asked if he would alter ratings if an EA exec wanted him to for different reasons. I believe that is the reason he didn't take or whatever. They know all about his site. I just think these ratings have become a monster that won't change. I think they don't want to offend players too much. People look at them like it's the official ratings. I'm not even sure he he uses the scouting data that FBG ratings uses that costs a lot of money to get. Stuff NFL teams use. I mean does anyone think NFL teams get their data from NFL.com?
                        Last edited by charter04; 07-21-2014, 10:44 PM.
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                        • DCEBB2001
                          MVP
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 2569

                          #57
                          Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

                          Originally posted by michiganfan8620
                          I don't know this for sure, but I'm guessing that the reason the ratings are so high on here for rookies is most likely so that they progress correctly over time in CFM modes. Yes, it isn't a perfect system, but it does make sense. If they lower the technical skills to where you want them since they are unproven, then they might not develop correctly in CFM compared to other players. I'm not defending EA's ratings, as many of you are right, Clowney has too high of PMV, Robinson may have a bit too high of RBK, and there are more, but saying so-and-so has too high of an OVR is too quick to judge. You can't say that until you have seen what other players at the position are rated. Some of these guys are overrated, but some are also underrated, EA realizes that and just tries to take a moderate approach in terms of OVR. Look at Sheldon Richardson, taken number 26 last year. Had he been rated even 85 in the first ratings, most people would be freaking out, talking about inflation of rookies. However, he played as one of the better 3-4 ends in the league, justifying a rating that high. He was rated mid-high 70's I believe in the initial ratings. A few of these rookies even make the pro bowl some years, thus, I don't believe it is right to say EA over-rates rookies every year, even though some of them are under-rated based on the way they perform.

                          Completely disagree here. Rookies should have those ratings warranted when they EARN THEM. NOT before their first season starts! They haven't even entered camp yet (except for the Bills)! I would prefer, in CFM, to have REALISTIC physical attributes and then build on them with XP going to honing the skills...you know...LIKE IN REAL LIFE. From this day forward, for every season accrued, these players will get slower, less agile, less twitchy, and even less strong as their bodies deteriorate over time. What is it that keeps the good ones in the game? THEIR TECHNICAL SKILLS! They learn to amass so much knowledge and technique, that they can overcome their physical regression with better technique and training.

                          Do you think Jerry Rice was productive in Oakland because he still ran a 4.58? He was productive because he was easily the smartest, most experienced player on the field who could turn blanket coverage by a corner's raw ability into a 5 yard deficit by running a route at 99% accuracy. But instead, we can increase speed, agility, yada, yada, yada.

                          The data I have shows that teams grade rookies very low and after, and ONLY after they prove their worth, do their grades go up. NOT before they even play one competitive snap against the best in the world! EA's logic is BACKWARD. Rate them as they are NOW, not what you "think" they "may" be in the future. Nobody has a crystal ball and that is why we get draft busts. Let these guys prove it first!
                          Dan B.
                          Player Ratings Administrator
                          www.fbgratings.com/members
                          NFL Scout
                          www.nfldraftscout.com/members

                          Petition to EA for FBG Ratings:
                          https://www.change.org/p/ea-sports-t...bers-index-php

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                          • charter04
                            Tecmo Super Bowl = GOAT
                            • May 2010
                            • 5740

                            #58
                            Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

                            Originally posted by DCEBB2001
                            Completely disagree here. Rookies should have those ratings warranted when they EARN THEM. NOT before their first season starts! They haven't even entered camp yet (except for the Bills)! I would prefer, in CFM, to have REALISTIC physical attributes and then build on them with XP going to honing the skills...you know...LIKE IN REAL LIFE. From this day forward, for every season accrued, these players will get slower, less agile, less twitchy, and even less strong as their bodies deteriorate over time. What is it that keeps the good ones in the game? THEIR TECHNICAL SKILLS! They learn to amass so much knowledge and technique, that they can overcome their physical regression with better technique and training.

                            Do you think Jerry Rice was productive in Oakland because he still ran a 4.58? He was productive because he was easily the smartest, most experienced player on the field who could turn blanket coverage by a corner's raw ability into a 5 yard deficit by running a route at 99% accuracy. But instead, we can increase speed, agility, yada, yada, yada.

                            The data I have shows that teams grade rookies very low and after, and ONLY after they prove their worth, do their grades go up. NOT before they even play one competitive snap against the best in the world! EA's logic is BACKWARD. Rate them as they are NOW, not what you "think" they "may" be in the future. Nobody has a crystal ball and that is why we get draft busts. Let these guys prove it first!
                            Just to add to the Jerry Rice example even he didn't come into the NFL as this fished product. He was pretty raw his rookie year. He dropped a lot of passes at first. It took time to learn Bill Walsh's system and develop.
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                            • SECElit3
                              Banned
                              • Jul 2009
                              • 5554

                              #59
                              Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

                              100% agree! Donnie Moore and his ratings are a major issue with this game? I swear he just spits things out with no factual backing behind them. Look at the acceleration ratings for offensive linemen...seriously? How is this guy qualified to do any of this? Man he is terrible.

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                              • charter04
                                Tecmo Super Bowl = GOAT
                                • May 2010
                                • 5740

                                #60
                                Re: Madden NFL 15: Top Rookies

                                I will say this about Donny Moore. He seems like a good guy and seems to work hard and love e his job. I just think he's in a lose lose situation. Some will complain the ratings are too high while others appalled that they are too low. I don't want his job I'll tell you that. Lol

                                I just feel he uses a faulty way to rate. Seems like watching games, you tube scouting, NFL.com "official" combine numbers, and outside pressure is his total method. It just makes the gameplay less realistic and more arcade, no matter how good a job the gameplay guys do.
                                Last edited by charter04; 07-21-2014, 10:31 PM.
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