Slide Protection: Can you trust it?

[LBzrule]

Re: Slide Protection: Can you trust it?

I think the worse thing the video shows is that the Center and LG do not slide to the side I told them to slide. Doesn't make sense and without a developer (programmer or producer) explaining things we are left thinking that things work a certain way.

[Senator Palmer]

Re: Slide Protection: Can you trust it?

I believe slide protection has been on this game since 2005? I read nothing prior to release of them enhancing this feature. In fact this site criticizes the line play. I use it all the time. Its better than not using it. Lots of time counters won't work b/c the line play a.i. sucks.

Slide protection has been in Madden since 05-06 - can't remember what year exactly - but it didn't make it into next gen until Madden 09, and when it did it sucked because as another poster broke down if you slide your line left, then the backside end on the right would come completely free. What's been "enhanced" is that the backside tackle now stays home and picks up the blocker.



To answer the OP: I haven't played NCAA beyond the demo, so I haven't picked up on the problems that LBz broke down, but I really liked the way it was done from what I saw for the very reason that I could trust the backside defender would be picked up.



@LBz, I've got a few questions after watching the vid.

1. Was "slide right" the correct call against that play and front? When I say right call, I mean in Madden terms. Was slight left/right designed to combat 4-3 stack OLB Fire Man, or would "pinch" slide protection have been the better call here? I know that's usually my call whenever I see a blitz coming in any of the A or B gaps. I'll only slide right or left when there is an overload or pressure from the C gap? Could that be the reason the blockers were "confused"?

Also, in real life terms, when would a "pinch" protection call be used? I know usually when the A gaps are threatened, anywhere else?

2. Front Observation:

When we look at the Madden screens and video, just like the diagram here, the Left Guard is not covered although there is a one technique shade (this may play into keys to look for how to slide your line that I might cover in a later article) that might throw off the blocking. I’m not certain. With a slide-right call, the linemen should be looking to the defender to their right and checking gap responsibility right. The left tackle is big on big so he should take the RE.

I was wondering if you could touch on some of the "keys" to look for that you've uncovered playing around with it, because looking at the video on your first play, you shifted the line away from the 3 tech. For me, from what I've observed over the past few years, I've gotten in the habit of never sliding my line away from the 3 tech. It just always felt like I was leaving the backside open to a free rusher (usually the 9 tech). Would the outcome of the play on the vid have been different if you slid left to the 3 tech?

I know that in real life, protections are usually changed by keying the linebackers. When I play Madden, I've always done it by keying the defensive line. If I had the game I could answer this one myself, but in so many words, is there a way to get this tool to function reliably by using a Madden-based formula instead of a real life one, because from what I've seen, the offensive/defensive lines are still tied together, so basing protections off of real life movements may be a useless at this point?

[LBzrule]

Re: Slide Protection: Can you trust it?

Senator, that's probably the big problem. I tried to use what I thought would be used in real life. I did try sliding to the left and the DT still came in untouched. I should have put that up too. That's the reason why I wrote the article because no matter which side I slide to the DT came in untouched so it was like well what am I supposed to do here, just go base? That's the thing I do not like. I sorta stumped. I like sliding to create a "zone style" protection and if I need to move it is easy for me to make an adjustment and set my QB up behind the sliding Guard and if I need to take off I will. Makes it much easier to do that. But it seems like slide protection is not meant as an option for base protection.

I'm not for sure. I diagrammed what I would do against every 4-3 front, Nickel Normal and Dime Normal and had great success out of Pro and Singleback Slot blocking seven man pass rushes. I'm not ready to publish that just yet because I want to go ahead and do 3-4 as well. I think it's going to be different because the 3-4 has a NT in 0 tech.

[footballfan41]

It's always been broken, if u look at the play before u pick and see where ur line is moving n blocking, you will see that the linemen slides anyways, it's flat butt broke, don't work at all....it's like when u move a te to the other side of the line, he don't block it's like he was not told the play....just comes down to the maker of the game....EA...ops I'm sorry they will patch it I forget they fix everything wt a patch....you pay $60 and play it tell them what's broke n they send out a patch, till some is happy and EA can claim they got the best football at Xmas and it sells like hot cakes....

[LBzrule]

Re: Slide Protection: Can you trust it?

@LBz, I've got a few questions after watching the vid.

1. Was "slide right" the correct call against that play and front? When I say right call, I mean in Madden terms. Was slight left/right designed to combat 4-3 stack OLB Fire Man, or would "pinch" slide protection have been the better call here? I know that's usually my call whenever I see a blitz coming in any of the A or B gaps. I'll only slide right or left when there is an overload or pressure from the C gape? Could that be the reason the blockers were "confused"?

See that's the thing. I am approaching this as if I can design my own protection for my passing game rather than just using it as an emergency tactic against an overload blitz. I believe Charlie Stubbs approach is beneficial. Mix your protections to keep the defense off kilter. Running only one protection is a recipe for disaster, but if I cannot trust the slides I'm left with only one protection. They gotta make things clear to gamers and clear in the program. Slide right with back side big on big means LG, C and everybody to the right slide to the damn right. HB step up and take up left side B gap. I don't understand what's so difficult about that.


Also, in real life terms, when would a "pinch" protection call be used? I know usually when the A gaps are threatened, anywhere else?

To be honest, I've never really seen this in real life. I've seen big on big, turn back, fan, and slides.

2. Front Observation:



I was wondering if you could touch on some of the "keys" to look for that you've uncovered playing around with it, because looking at the video on your first play, you shifted the line away from the 3 tech. For me, from what I've observed over the past few years, I've gotten in the habit of never sliding my line away from the 3 tech. It just always felt like I was leaving the backside open to a free rusher (usually the 9 tech). Would the outcome of the play on the vid have been different if you slide left to the 3 tech?

I'm actually using the linebackers as keys. The Fire man had both guys blitzing. When I slid the line away from the TE the DT on the Left came in untouched. When I went with base protection with the HB, the Will or the Sam came in. Often the result was them getting a free shot because a DL would break his block quick causing the HB to slide and pick up the DL and leave the Will or Sam untouched. So while I had number for number guys still came in untouched.

I know that in real life, protections are usually changed by keying the linebackers. When I play Madden, I've always done it by keying the defensive line. If I had the game I could answer this one myself, but in so many words, is there a way to get this tool to function reliably by using a Madden-based formula instead of a real life one, because from what I've seen, the offensive/defensive lines are still tied together, so basing protections off of real life movements may be a useless at this point?

I think the latter is going to be the key for 3-4. For 4-3 I use linebackers because there really isn't a NT in a 0 technique. But in 3-4 you're basically going to have a 0 tech which I think is going to change up what you'll need to do.

[killer miller31]

We have had slide protectiong for 3 or 4 years now its not new...........

[LBzrule]

Re: Slide Protection: Can you trust it?

We have had slide protectiong for 3 or 4 years now its not new...........

This statement shows misunderstanding of what the article says. It does not say slide protection itself is new. It says four-man slide with back side tackle in big on big is new. Why can't people understand this?

[moose1619]

Re: Slide Protection: Can you trust it?

Yeah, this is new. I know that in Madden if you slid the protection say to the right side your LT would leave the end unblocked as the whole line would shift and the end would have a free run at your QB, unless you changed a RB/FB to block to that side, or you moved the pocket and got rid of the ball quickly.

I know in easy high school blocking schemes when u slide left the rb blocks off right edge and if you slide right the rb blocks left edge. Like you have stated if you slide you have to manually adjust the RB, most people probably do not realize this. Having a Tackle stay on a DE is a nice touch as long as the RB can fill for a blitzing LB.

[TajDeni]

Re: Slide Protection: Can you trust it?

on passing plays ive always hit down on the slider protection, to reinforce the pocket, cept for designed rollouts (ie. boots) then i would slide the protection that way.

personally i would never slide the OL to a given side on passing plays, outside of a designed rollout, so i guess my answer would have to be no i would not trust it.

what i would trust is to hit down on the pass protection to get the OL to pinch, then id use 1 of 2 options...

1. set my HB/TE (maybe both) to block to the side i thought the pressure was coming from

2. or try to better identify where the pressure was coming from pre-snap reads and work on developing a hot route to replace the spot the pressure just came from.

both of these option i would trust before i slide my OL to a given side to help pick up pressure.

[shaunlmason]

Re: Slide Protection: Can you trust it?

This statement shows misunderstanding of what the article says. It does not say slide protection itself is new. It says four-man slide with back side tackle in big on big is new. Why can't people understand this?

You should edit how you worded that.=)

[Smoke6]

Re: Slide Protection: Can you trust it?

The slide protection for me is a 50/50. Half the time it works, half the time it doesn't.

Wish it worked on run plays, I got zoo sick of people running thru the LOS with a clear lane at any given time on run plays. And before people yell, counter it with tosses, I hate being restricted to a small amount of plays due to jerks who can't stop plays conventionally.

But it needs to work on both runs and pass plays equally and even moreso when the defense is not properly equipped or chooses wrong play wise.

[wat3]

Welp, after watching the video it looked right to me. Everyone was sliding as usual.

[killer miller31]

Yeah the title indicates you are talking about slide protection as a whole.my bad

[baller7345]

Re: Slide Protection: Can you trust it?

Wish it worked on run plays, I got zoo sick of people running thru the LOS with a clear lane at any given time on run plays. And before people yell, counter it with tosses, I hate being restricted to a small amount of plays due to jerks who can't stop plays conventionally.

But it needs to work on both runs and pass plays equally and even moreso when the defense is not properly equipped or chooses wrong play wise.

No, I do not want slide protection to affect the running game. Slide protection is a pass protection blocking scheme and should stay that way. They should work on improving their run blocking schemes but don't put a pass protection option into the running game.

[cbenti60]

One thing to think about: Could there be a problem with the "awareness" stat?

I know the video looks bad, but could it be explained because the Center is "dumb" according to the game? I feel multiple tests could be done on this.