Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

[roadman]

Re: Madden Article (Courtest of Grantland)

"I think in general there's a feeling that EA's football titles are starting to feel a little bit stagnant in terms of how you play them." Wow that has to be the understatement of the year.

At least they aren't hiding behind the statement.

[jyoung]

Re: Madden Article (Courtest of Grantland)

Interesting that the author took a big paragraph to explain 22 players on the field makes it a difficult game to code.

I've heard the same from others on here.

It's not just the number of players on the field, but the fact that each player is following a different AI script (running a route, covering a zone, etc.).

Plus for the game to be realistic, each player can't just follow his pre-play script entirely.

There has to be a mix of prescripted movement and "on the fly" AI adjustments based on what the other players on the field are doing.

[roadman]

Re: Madden Article (Courtest of Grantland)

It's not just the number of players on the field, but the fact that each player is following a different AI script (running a route, covering a zone, etc.).

Plus for the game to be realistic, each player can't just follow his pre-play script entirely.

There has to be a mix of prescripted movement and "on the fly" AI adjustments based on what the other players on the field are doing.

True, great point, I didn't go the extra yard in explaining that.

Thanks.

[Big FN Deal]

Re: Madden Article (Courtest of Grantland)

I'm curious to see what they come up with. Like you mentioned, it's encouraging to see that they realize they've gotta come up with something new. Perhaps a new passing mechanic? Spitballing obviously...

In any event, I don't know if what they're hinting at will bear fruit for M13 -- but I am anxious to see how doubling the gameplay team impacts the upcoming game.

It's always fun to speculate and I kept picturing a new position specific field level gameplay view option when reading that part. Just seems like a rather simple addition that instantly adds more immersion and realism. imo.

The story telling aspect Young alluded to, brought a uncontrollable smile to my face. lol. I constantly read on OS how so many franchise gamers have to use their imagination to invent there own franchise storylines to create the "game inside the game" that exist in the real NFL. It's great to read the Creative Director acknowledge that and realize the need for Madden to represent this aspect going forward.

I never have played a franchise mode of any sports game, by myself, against the CPU. However, that would definitely change if Madden can actually represent the internal conflicts and challenges of the NFL, like, "....the long shot who makes the team, is the hero, and has a fall. From there we can almost sequel it and have episodes: his comeback, his being tossed aside for the new rookie. We could go through that whole world...".

I can just imagine each player in Madden having a random "choose you own adventure" type storyline that plays out uniquely over each 30 season franchise. Teams refusing to make marquee trades to division opponents, past players motivated to play against former teams, veterans demanding trades if teams signs a potential replacement, etc. I love the way Mike Young's mind seems to work in relation to NFL football games.

[Danknugmelo]

They need to omve away from Madden and get in people who are more familiar with how football is played NOW. Madden hasnt coached since, what, the late 70s? And he hasnt announced in 4-5 season.

Game has changed and left him in the past.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

They need to omve away from Madden and get in people who are more familiar with how football is played NOW. Madden hasnt coached since, what, the late 70s? And he hasnt announced in 4-5 season.

Game has changed and left him in the past.

I doubt it, really.

That mancave he has isn't set up to play twiddly winks. Last year, he told the Madden team there seems to be more middle and bubble screens in the NFL.

So, I don't think the game is passing him by.

[dfos81]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

They need to omve away from Madden and get in people who are more familiar with how football is played NOW. Madden hasnt coached since, what, the late 70s? And he hasnt announced in 4-5 season.

Game has changed and left him in the past.

haha...yeah, John Madden has probably forgot more about todays game than anybody at EA/Tiburon even knows.
If anything Madden is explaining what coaching schemes/strategies are trending now. Didn't you read Madden's retired, he has more time to be a football fan now.
Since when does not having a recent NFL coaching job, and announcing for NFL games, keep a person from being qualified enough to help improve the Madden series? Especially, the Legend himself.....

[huskerwr38]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

They need to omve away from Madden and get in people who are more familiar with how football is played NOW. Madden hasnt coached since, what, the late 70s? And he hasnt announced in 4-5 season.

Game has changed and left him in the past.

That is probably one of the more ignorant statements I've seen on this board. People's stupidity never cease to amaze me.

Anyways, the x's and o's of Madden isn't what really bother me. In terms of gameplay, it's the way the players move and interact with each other that really bother me. Most games these days use some sort of motion capture animation system, but Madden's animation system is the worse I have played (out of the major games). They really really need to re-vamp their animation system.

[TreFacTor]

Re: Madden Article (Courtest of Grantland)

It's not just the number of players on the field, but the fact that each player is following a different AI script (running a route, covering a zone, etc.).

Plus for the game to be realistic, each player can't just follow his pre-play script entirely.

There has to be a mix of prescripted movement and "on the fly" AI adjustments based on what the other players on the field are doing.

Not to mentioned variations on when certain animations are performed. It surprises me that to this day we still have mirroring animations where a receiver and DB will do the same exact animation at the same exact time, or 2 defensive players perform the same animation at the same exact time. For them to tout the progress in animation and AI but still not see the faults doesn't give me the confidence that it will be corrected until next gen. I still can't foresee m13 being anything but the norm for this generation of consoles especially considering the emphasis that is made with the statement that the game is already pushing this gen to it's limits.

[SoulAssassin]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

An interesting tidbit in regards to fearing the Gameday franchise more than NFL2k... and 2k's daring move at the time with the $20 price tag.

Whole article is a good read, however.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

I read an article like this last year and the year before. Here is the one from last year.

Overall, it's not a bad read but it doesn't get me any more or less excited about the team in place. Stale gameplay, lack of presentation/story, and player interactions aren't something the Madden team hasn't been aware of for years.

I also gotta say that I'm getting a little tired of hearing of the rendering 22 players on a field problem. I think on the whole, Madden does a solid job of assigning the proper players the proper tasks. It's how these things animate that is so frustrating. Db's mirroring the wr routes and defenders coming off blocks the instant the ball carrier gets close isn't what we should be seeing.

[roadman]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

Overall, it's not a bad read but it doesn't get me any more or less excited about the team in place. Stale gameplay, lack of presentation/story, and player interactions aren't something the Madden team hasn't been aware of for years.

When is the last time you heard a public official from EA speak about stale game play of Madden to the media?

[adfletch71]

Not impressed at all, this has been Madden excuse since 2006. David Ortiz, Phil Frazier & Ian Cummings now Weber. It's time for these guys too understand, Madden has been on next-gen consoles since 2006, 8 years already. They still lack fundamentals of football and the gaming community it tired of there excuses. Enough with the talk, show me what's on the field. Shout can't even get a offensive and defensive pass interference penality for goodness sakes!!!! Please EA fundamentals.

[RGiles36]

Re: Madden Article (Courtest of Grantland)

It's always fun to speculate and I kept picturing a new position specific field level gameplay view option when reading that part. Just seems like a rather simple addition that instantly adds more immersion and realism. imo.

Yeah, speculation is all we can do this time of year, so let's have at it!

I too thought of field level gameplay, but how much bang for their buck will they get with that? I don't have a firm grasp on what experience the average Madden fan wants, but would anyone really want to play as an OL? A tight end? A safety? I think people would give it a shot, but it wouldn't be a preferred method of playing the game. I don't think it would be a simple addition to make every position on the field playable -- not to mention developing control schemes for each position and most of all finding a way to make those various positions fun.

I did like what Roy Harvey spoke to though, as far as streamlining the experience and being able to provide various levels of depth for different gamers. A lot of us are getting older . I'd like to be able to customize my gameplan from my desk at work. Or do some franchise scouting online or something. I'm not sure what direction they're going in, but I think there's definitely a market who could appreciate being able to take their game (franchise) with them.

[kjcheezhead]

Re: Madden NFL and the Future of Video Game Sports (Grantland)

When is the last time you heard a public official from EA speak about stale game play of Madden to the media?

They do it everytime new developers get on board. Ian Cummings was going to move away from Ortiz's arcade direction. Now Cam Weber is on board and they are going to a more simulation and NFL broadcast style.

This as close as the execs actually come to openly speaking out about stale gameplay anyways...

On this point, Weber was surprisingly forthcoming: "We read the forums, we read the consumer feedback, we read reviews. I think in general there's a feeling that EA's football titles are starting to feel a little bit stagnant in terms of how you play them

So the feedback Cam Weber reads is that the game is starting to feel stale? Really? Come on, Man! EA can go back and read feed back for any version of current madden, it pretty much the same. Presentation is not existant, game modes are too shallow/bare bones, animation/interactions are bad.

The part of the artricle we are talking about is only about a paragraph long by the way. The rest of this article discusses EA watching NFL film, picking John Madden's brain apart and meticuously making the best football game possible with technology available. Either that, or it discusses EA's challenges like casual/experienced gamers, and how to make a sports game "artistic".

This article doesn't spend a lot of time dicussing the staleness of Madden, or any other of Madden's shortcomings.. and when it does it usually talks about sports games in general.