Forza Motorsport 4 - Reflecting on the Past, Present and Future of Forza

[Steve_OS]

Turn 10’s Game Director, Dan Greenawalt reflects on the past, present and future of the Forza series.

Quote:

"So what does the future hold for Turn 10? Well, Forza 4 of course, but Greenawalt remained cryptic on what they did or didn’t learn from Forza 3, that they’re taking into Forza 4. “We’re our own worst critics and take on board all the reviews and opinions,” said Greenawalt. “It would be so easy to drive yourself mad reading everyone’s opinions and evaluating what you’ve achieved. We try to bucket people into categories to tackle what each subsection wants and how we can tailor the next game to improve it for them. It’s a colossal list. We get together and decide which of those edits or additions are the most important.” “We always see the glass as half empty and we’re very dedicated to improving the game.” That surely means improving the physics on their simulation engine, after all, Turn 10 almost seem obsessed with that level of detail, but when asked whether anyone would actually notice the tweaks and upgrades, Greenawalt remained philosophical. “I think it depends on what kind of customer we’re talking to. The tyre model, assists and controller buffer affect how we can modify these physics,” he noted, before reflecting on years gone-by when it would take days to run simulations. “Lots of the dynamic simulations that had to be done over a period of days have now been streamlined with greater accuracy so these effects are not only more powerful but also more concise. Ten years from now, I think we’re going to see race cars designed 100% in real time."

Source - Turn 10’s Dan Greenawalt Reflects on the Past, Present and Future of the Forza Franchise (Xbox360Achievements)

[lnin0]

He said it himself, "it’s all about the cars rather than the racing".

[canes21]

Every video, article, or whatever I have seen with him in it leaves me feeling like he really loves Forza. He seems to really care about his game and it shows. I love Forza and will have Forza 4 day one.

[Kruza]

I am actually left in bewilderment and disgust after reading that interview. I simply think the guy just doesn't get it. But the Forza games are selling well, so hey... more power to him.

Kruza

[Hooe]

My initial impression from the interview is that with Forza 4 one is going to really have to become a part of its community to enjoy it. Not necessarily a good or bad thing, just my impression.

I still will likely buy on Day 1, I do enjoy these games. I just hope that the offline gameplay modes aren't neglected.

Out of curiosity, to those who have voiced negatively to this interview, what would you have rather seen the focus get put on for this game? Where did Forza 3 fall short for you and you ideally want Turn 10 to address for Forza 4?

[Flamehead]

Quote: Originally Posted by CHooe

Out of curiosity, to those who have voiced negatively to this interview, what would you have rather seen the focus get put on for this game? Where did Forza 3 fall short for you and you ideally want Turn 10 to address for Forza 4?

For me, I've been slightly disappointed that Turn 10 has gone the same direction as the GT series in that it's "about the cars, not the racing". It's about admiring them, creating them, collecting them, maybe even driving them, but the racing is merely background context of which to do all those other things--instead of being in the forefront.

But I get it--racing's not really a niche their aiming for. It's a "car culture" kind of thing. I can see the appeal, but would have enjoyed Forza 3 more had they had more than 8 cars on the track. Forza 4 will have up to 16, so that's an improvement.

Just have to take the game for what it is. Still a good game though.

[Kruza]

Quote: Originally Posted by CHooe

Out of curiosity, to those who have voiced negatively to this interview, what would you have rather seen the focus get put on for this game? Where did Forza 3 fall short for you and you ideally want Turn 10 to address for Forza 4?

The Forza games can improve on the actual racing experience a great deal because I think the actual races in those games fall well short of acceptable considering what features have already been added to each edition of the series to date. Turn 10 has done everything to make a car handle realistically as possible and that's fine. I also like the inclusion of punishing penalty/red time for whenever a car goes off track, though I admit the penalty lap time system could be lenient whenever a tire or two goes over the curbing. Now Turn 10 needs to redirect that focus to improve what would make the racing better and more fun to compete in. Here's a start:

First off, include the option to have a free practice session, qualifying sessions, or both prior to starting an offline or an online race. Include all types of race flags during a race -- even the blue ones that comes out to signal lap traffic to move aside for drivers on the lead lap to go by. Include pit stops. Give the option to make specific changes to the car during a pit stop similar to what the vintage TOCA Race Driver games have. Make it possible to save and load a certain number of car setups for online races.

The level of attention to detail of all the cars in the Forza goes without saying. But how about paying more attention to the actual track that the race is taking place on. The look of the track stays the same on every Forza game to date, no matter what. There could be black rubber traces coming from car tires that create higher-grip level paths on the track for the duration of a dry weather endurance race. Race cars participating in endurance races over damp tracks would create dry paths instead of black trails. Why this issue hasn't been addressed is beyond me when one considers how detailed the background, trackside objects and everything else except for the track surface itself looks on this game. And this issue somewhat relates to my next point...

Add random weather changes. For instance, it could be sunny or cloudy/overcast during an early free practice session then pouring rain during the following qualifying session at the same race weekend. That would make one completely change the approach of how he/she would drive the car and make frequent pit stops to modify the car setup (wet/intermediate tires, etc.) to accommodate for the wet road, among other things. Plus include possible wet/damp track situations as a result of a major downpour that has moved on. Or maybe there's a scenario during a race weekend where the weather doesn't change and thus the track gets soaked all weekend long. Now I'm not stressing that weather changes have to be dynamic to the point where changes can actually occur during a race (though it would be absolutely incredible to witness something like that), but changes between various sessions shouldn't be tough to ask for.

Make it possible to have the car severely damaged to the point where it's not functional during any free pracitice and qualifying sessions. For instance, if the driver's car suffers a high speed head-on collision to a trackside guard rail on a street circuit during a free practice session, then chances are that car would not fixed to the point where it would be ready to go when it's race time. This would make a driver think twice about pushing a car too much and basically driving recklessly during a pre-race session when trying to experiment with a new/upgraded component that's been added to the car.

The AI for CPU cars in Forza 3 is lacking and makes races even more dull. They need to look at how CPU cars race and behave in Race Pro. They're aggressive yet fair. They will pass you up if you're too slow coming out of an exit and did not hold an inside/defensive line tight enough. And they're not beyond making mistakes that makes them go off track on occasion.

And I hate to sound like a broken record since I've mentioned this well before Forza 2 came out, but include more 'effin cars in a race. Having only eight cars this day in age for racing games is borderline laughable when there are other racing games that has no problem with including more of them in a race.

Improve on these issues, and then I will think differently about the Forza series as racing games. I'm not interested in playing long, drawn out CarPGs.

Kruza

[randombrother]

I agree with alot of what you're saying Kruza but some I'm a little "eh" on. Flags in a game with 8 cars seems like a waste of recources if you really think about it. And since, up until FM4, it was been nothing but 8 cars on the track it's pretty much useless to a degree. With 16 cars though you start to have the need for flags.

I think the A.I. is pretty damn good in Forza. It's not Race Pro (Pro, Very Hard) aggressive or as crafty but it's very good. Now if you want to see some bad A.I. come on over to my crib and get a gander of GT5 in action. I wont be responsible for any damages you occur like trying to gouge your eyes out afterwards.

Car's not being "functional" at any point in any race is something you can forget about. Licensing issues prevent that from happening. Very few manufactures allow their cars to stop working altogether in video games. And once you have one manufacturer saying no you have to do it for all the cars for parity sake.