MLB 2K11 Devs Flattered But Not Impressed by MLB 11 The Show Adopting Analog Controls

[Scottdau]

Re: Destructoid: 2k11 Devs on The Show's Pitching Mechanic

The guy feels his controls are more fun than the other game. Big shock there. 2K pitching with the analog control is still better than the Shows in my opinion, but they have had some years to make them better too. If 2k make the commentary better than last year I am very excited to hear that last year's was great.

[ryan36]

Re: Destructoid: 2k11 Devs on The Show's Pitching Mechanic

I just hope Mr. Bailey gets that pitching difficulty is about more than the control scheme. You could wiggle that stick to your heart's content in 2K10 and still paint the corners with darn near every pitch. If VC got that taken care of, he can yap all he wants about the competition...lol

This was sort of my broader point. 2k's system is fun, but I think the down/up/release point mechanic may yield better results.

[nemesis04]

Re: Destructoid: 2k11 Devs on The Show's Pitching Mechanic

This was sort of my broader point. 2k's system is fun, but I think the down/up/release point mechanic may yield better results.

Just remember it is not just your up and down, you have influence on the left and right direction of the zone as well.

[Knight165]

Re: Destructoid: 2k11 Devs on The Show's Pitching Mechanic

When did SCEA poke fun at 2K?
I don't remember that at all.


M.K.
Knight165

[swaldo]

Re: Destructoid: 2k11 Devs on The Show's Pitching Mechanic

I guess Bailey never played 'MVP 07 NCAA Baseball' because that's where The Show's new pitching mechanic comes from. It's simply a rip-off of their "Rock & Fire" analog pitching system which is ok with me. I even remember reading posts from people screaming to SCEA to adopt it - and everyone knows The Show devs listen to their community.

So Bailey just got egg on his face, and what really concerns me is the fact he apparently hasn't played MVP 07. If I were a lead dev for a baseball game the first thing I'd do is play every game ever made and note what works and what doesn't in each.

[thaSLAB]

LOL, yes Bailey makes its sound very cut and dried. I don't think 2K is in the position to speak on another games development, other than to stir the pot in hopes to gain exposure for their own title.

IMO, the rock and fire method is more true to life when compared to gestures. Afterall, IRL pitching is controlled by grip, arm angle, and release point. All of which are represented in MLBs method. Other than that, you pretty much use the same motion when you pitch in real life (rock and fire).

I also don't recall SCEA taking shots either. Maybe I missed the "MLB Dev flattered, but not impressed by 2Ks my player mode." - even tho EA should be the ones making this statement Bailey makes.


Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

[JustinSainn]

Re: Destructoid: 2k11 Devs on The Show's Pitching Mechanic

Let's see, the last time I pitched I didn't swing my arms from side to side to throw a slider and I didn't draw an X with my arm to throw a curveball or whatever. The Show's analog pitching is far superior IMO. When you throw the ball you throw in with the same motion everytime, so obviously the same gesture for ever pitch makes sense. The type of pitch is determined by grip (which is represented by which button you push) and the subltety's of how you throw it (and in the Show this will be determined by hitting your release point on the meter and throwing to the correct area of the plate). I saw everyone praising 2K's analog controls for pitching last year but I just didn't get it. What does making a half circle and a straight cut across have to do with throwing a curveball?

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Destructoid: 2k11 Devs on The Show's Pitching Mechanic

Let's see, the last time I pitched I didn't swing my arms from side to side to throw a slider and I didn't draw an X with my arm to throw a curveball or whatever. The Show's analog pitching is far superior IMO. When you throw the ball you throw in with the same motion everytime, so obviously the same gesture for ever pitch makes sense. The type of pitch is determined by grip (which is represented by which button you push) and the subltety's of how you throw it (and in the Show this will be determined by hitting your release point on the meter and throwing to the correct area of the plate). I saw everyone praising 2K's analog controls for pitching last year but I just didn't get it. What does making a half circle and a straight cut across have to do with throwing a curveball?

For me the argument has nothing to do with realism but rather what is most fun and provides the best sim result. I love gesture pitching. I don't like the meter pitching in the Show and Classic had grown stale. Gesture pitching is a mini-game on it's own. In no way will I pretend that performing a half circle when throwing a slider is more or less realistic. I don't care. I just found it a lot of fun to have a unique system for every pitch. Variety keeps it fresh and I do think this will hurt the Show's analog pitching system. 2K10 was still way too accurate and they didn't have a pitch accuracy slider to help fix this. It certainly hurt the realism and sim aspects of pitching when you rarely walk anyone and paint corners most of the time. That missing slider really hurt the game last year and I'm really hoping they add it to 2K11. I'll be annoyed if it's not.

The Show's system isn't just up and down as you do have to tweak it left/right based on accuracy and the speed of the stick does influence it. It doesn't sound as much fun to me since it lacks 2k's variety although maybe I'll be wrong. Obviously some will like this approach better. I do think that the misses should be more random than what the tutorial video has shown. If I push too far to the right on the stick, the ball shouldn't miss right every time imo. 2K's will be more random and I think that is the better way.

A bigger complaint for the Show may be that you have to execute the pitch DURING the delivery. One reason I preferred Classic over Meter in the past was that I was able to watch the pitcher the entire time and see the result of the play. With meter I was so focused on hitting my marks that I missed a lot of that. The Show's new analog system has the same timing system and I wish they would let you execute the controls just before the pitch so you could actually watch it play out completely.

I have no problem with the Show going analog and have been asking for this to happen sooner than later. Great ideas should always be borrowed so we can all benefit. These two systems will be compared at release and I'll enjoy reading the various comments on them once we can actually use them. The biggest benefit of analog controls is in the pitching for me so this is something I'm really going to try out for both games. Let's hope the demos come out before release this year.

[thundergatti]

Re: Destructoid: 2k11 Devs on The Show's Pitching Mechanic

For me the argument has nothing to do with realism but rather what is most fun and provides the best sim result. I love gesture pitching. I don't like the meter pitching in the Show and Classic had grown stale. Gesture pitching is a mini-game on it's own. In no way will I pretend that performing a half circle when throwing a slider is more or less realistic. I don't care. I just found it a lot of fun to have a unique system for every pitch. Variety keeps it fresh and I do think this will hurt the Show's analog pitching system. 2K10 was still way too accurate and they didn't have a pitch accuracy slider to help fix this. It certainly hurt the realism and sim aspects of pitching when you rarely walk anyone and paint corners most of the time. That missing slider really hurt the game last year and I'm really hoping they add it to 2K11. I'll be annoyed if it's not.

The Show's system isn't just up and down as you do have to tweak it left/right based on accuracy and the speed of the stick does influence it. It doesn't sound as much fun to me since it lacks 2k's variety although maybe I'll be wrong. Obviously some will like this approach better. I do think that the misses should be more random than what the tutorial video has shown. If I push too far to the right on the stick, the ball shouldn't miss right every time imo. 2K's will be more random and I think that is the better way.

[B]A bigger complaint for the Show may be that you have to execute the pitch DURING the delivery. One reason I preferred Classic over Meter in the past was that I was able to watch the pitcher the entire time and see the result of the play. With meter I was so focused on hitting my marks that I missed a lot of that. The Show's new analog system has the same timing system and I wish they would let you execute the controls just before the pitch so you could actually watch it play out completely.

I have no problem with the Show going analog and have been asking for this to happen sooner than later. Great ideas should always be borrowed so we can all benefit. These two systems will be compared at release and I'll enjoy reading the various comments on them once we can actually use them. The biggest benefit of analog controls is in the pitching for me so this is something I'm really going to try out for both games. Let's hope the demos come out before release this year.

While I agree with you about the circular gestures being preferable, I completely disagree with you about the statements that I bolded.

You hit in real-time; you field in real-time. Why would you not pitch in real time? It would just seem so unnatural and wrong to do the gesture and then have the animation unfold. I believe this was a criticism of 2k pitching last year (there's a thread about it somewhere).

I haven't really analyzed the video of MLB 11, but it would be sick if the delivery/arm slot is noticeably altered or different when, for example, the pitcher overthrows it and pulls it into the dirt. Anybody know?

[JayhawkerStL]

Re: Destructoid: 2k11 Devs on The Show's Pitching Mechanic

Honestly, SCEA copied the wrong feature, anyway.

MLB Today is the real game changer. As much as I loved NHL 11, it felt like I was missing something after having played so many MLB Today games. I posted before that it is the feature that could bring me back to NHL 2K if they implemented NHL Today in a new Xbox version.

In fact, I just sold off NHL 11 in favor of NBA 2K11, and it is pretty much the only reason. I haven't bought an NBA game in ages, but it at least has the NBA Today feature.

MLB 2K11 is not going to eclipse The Show in looks. But if the gameplay is solid, the presentation makes up for it 100 fold.

[JustinSainn]

Re: Destructoid: 2k11 Devs on The Show's Pitching Mechanic

For me the argument has nothing to do with realism but rather what is most fun and provides the best sim result. I love gesture pitching. I don't like the meter pitching in the Show and Classic had grown stale. Gesture pitching is a mini-game on it's own. In no way will I pretend that performing a half circle when throwing a slider is more or less realistic. I don't care. I just found it a lot of fun to have a unique system for every pitch. Variety keeps it fresh and I do think this will hurt the Show's analog pitching system. 2K10 was still way too accurate and they didn't have a pitch accuracy slider to help fix this. It certainly hurt the realism and sim aspects of pitching when you rarely walk anyone and paint corners most of the time. That missing slider really hurt the game last year and I'm really hoping they add it to 2K11. I'll be annoyed if it's not.

Ok, isn't the point of a sports sim to be as realistic as possible? I can't stand it when people put sim results ahead of realistic gameplay. What's the point of sim results if you don't get an authentic, realistic gameplay experience?

The Show's system isn't just up and down as you do have to tweak it left/right based on accuracy and the speed of the stick does influence it. It doesn't sound as much fun to me since it lacks 2k's variety although maybe I'll be wrong. Obviously some will like this approach better. I do think that the misses should be more random than what the tutorial video has shown. If I push too far to the right on the stick, the ball shouldn't miss right every time imo. 2K's will be more random and I think that is the better way.

Why shouldn't the ball miss to the right if you miss your mark to the right every time? I'm the one playing so I'm the one who should be responsible for the results. It's not just tweaking left or right either, if you pull back too far you'll overthrow and if you don't pull back far enough you'll underthrow. Plus the velocity of the stick directly affects the velocity of the pitch. It's almost as if your right stick IS your pitcher's arm. I simply don't see how anything on a controller could be considered a better representation of pitching baseball.

A bigger complaint for the Show may be that you have to execute the pitch DURING the delivery. One reason I preferred Classic over Meter in the past was that I was able to watch the pitcher the entire time and see the result of the play. With meter I was so focused on hitting my marks that I missed a lot of that. The Show's new analog system has the same timing system and I wish they would let you execute the controls just before the pitch so you could actually watch it play out completely.

This paragraph is just ridiculous. Like the other poster said, you have to play all the other aspects of the game in real-time, so why not pitching? If you really wanna watch the pitcher go through his motion then put on a CPU vs. CPU game and just watch. Personally, I wanna play the game, not watch it.

I have no problem with the Show going analog and have been asking for this to happen sooner than later. Great ideas should always be borrowed so we can all benefit. These two systems will be compared at release and I'll enjoy reading the various comments on them once we can actually use them. The biggest benefit of analog controls is in the pitching for me so this is something I'm really going to try out for both games. Let's hope the demos come out before release this year.

I do agree with you here about the demos. I hope they give us some practice time with the new system and I also wouldn't mind to try out 2K11 although it would take almost a miracle for me to wanna buy it.

[Dog]

Re: MLB 2K11 Devs Flattered But Not Impressed by MLB 11 The Show Adopting Analog Cont

The fact that MLB 2K devs are poking fun at MLB: The Show devs is laughable.

[loganmorrison1]

Re: MLB 2K11 Devs Flattered But Not Impressed by MLB 11 The Show Adopting Analog Cont

I think this is great b/c is shows me that 2k feels like their game has some balls this year and if that is true, I am totally pumped being a huge baseball fan, I now have 2 great games to play

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Destructoid: 2k11 Devs on The Show's Pitching Mechanic

Ok, isn't the point of a sports sim to be as realistic as possible? I can't stand it when people put sim results ahead of realistic gameplay. What's the point of sim results if you don't get an authentic, realistic gameplay experience?

I don't equate realism with control schemes. I don't think that matters. I'm not actually playing baseball and sitting in my chair with a controller doesn't make me forget that no matter how I'm pushing the buttons. The most important thing about playing a video game is having fun and I think that is true for everyone here. The 2K control scheme is more fun for me so I like it.

Why shouldn't the ball miss to the right if you miss your mark to the right every time? I'm the one playing so I'm the one who should be responsible for the results. It's not just tweaking left or right either, if you pull back too far you'll overthrow and if you don't pull back far enough you'll underthrow. Plus the velocity of the stick directly affects the velocity of the pitch. It's almost as if your right stick IS your pitcher's arm. I simply don't see how anything on a controller could be considered a better representation of pitching baseball.

You may be right. This is something I'm undecided on. Pitchers can understand why they miss at times but I don't think it's fair to say they always know why they blew a pitch. I liked playing with Classic pitching the last couple of years I had the Show and I enjoyed the random misses but this may be a good thing. I have to see how it's implemented before I make up my mind.

This paragraph is just ridiculous. Like the other poster said, you have to play all the other aspects of the game in real-time, so why not pitching? If you really wanna watch the pitcher go through his motion then put on a CPU vs. CPU game and just watch. Personally, I wanna play the game, not watch it.

I don't think it's fair to say I only want to watch the game rather than play it by executing the exact same pitch scheme one second earlier than they currently have it. Some pitchers have cool deliveries. I'd like to be able to see that rather than just watch a graphic over their head and miss out on that. This is personal preference for me. If you don't like it that's fine but this is something I would prefer.

[Smokez4DAyz]

the users who post on this website have a 75-25 favor for the show, and with that kind of bias, anything said by the 2k guys, whether true or not, gets you guys to go into all out defend mode for the show. anyone that REALLY plays both games, knows that 2K is the more exciting, eye-popping game. IF you REALLY play both games, you know the show is solid, but only solid, it is not at NBA 2K11 status, or stellar, or superior. Yet on this website, you read how its the greatest game...whatever.
About the pitching mechanic, copying amongst developers has always happened, whether you are no.1 or no.2 ,if your game can use some of the competitions features and you can jack it, nuff said. But its amazing that the alleged "leader" is the one taking from the so called "inferior" title. Add to the fact that it is cowardly taking a safe approach with up-down as its basic mechanic, instead of fleshing out the inputs, I can see the shot taken as a good one. EA had tried to use small elements of the NBA 2K series to help the LIVE series, NFL 2K and Madden has had healthy doses of each others game in theirs, I get it, but if developers can be impressed by features in the other game, and actually like the other game, I'd like to see the same percentage in the fan responses. Most of the people I meet tell me they like MLB 2K the last two years, and that the show is good, but its ultra repetitive. I'll check both games out again this year.