To EA and Madden Consumers, Madden Is a Success

[raz77]

Re: To EA and Madden Consumers, Madden Is a Success

Well, I guess if you found a way to legally cripple all of its competition the geo metro could be the most successful race car of all time.

[Radja]

why the games sales figures are so hard to find is really stupid. what is the big secret of it all for game companies to hide the numbers? i can see hiding low numbers, but if the game sells a ton, tell everyone.

however, simple unit sales do not tell the whole picture. some games move a lot copies when they start marking them down. examples could be one game who sold the majority of their units at $60.00 but the other sold the majority of theirs at $40.00. obviously, one company made more money. they may have sold the same amount of units overall, the price point for the consumer was different.

[Skyboxer]

I wouldn't call a game that I've probably owned a total of 1 month combined with all years this gen, a success. For the most part this gen madden has not had a soul at all. No clear direction of where the game wanted to go.

No excitement yet for the next version
+ No confidence in Madden getting a set direction and going with it
+ A wait and see approach instead of 1st day buy

= no success for this gamer.

I miss my Madden. Hopefully we'll be surprised this year.

I have no idea what the main stream gamers feel about it. Just saying how I feel.

[1WEiRDguy]

fellas, im in no way supporting madden, but if you spend $1 to make something and someone buys it for $2, then you are in the green...so dollars wise, they are winning...im sure the budget for that game hasnt grown since coming to next gen (that is my biased opinion with no facts to support), so they can keep spening a couple of million to develop it while raking in tens of millions...then with the addition of all that crap, i meant "boosts" noobs seem to buy online, they will continue to make more money...

[WakeUp]

Every year you get the same taglines from them about wanting to be the best, yet they contradict themselves every year when they advertise themselves as being the best. I don't listen to their doublespeak. I look at the games they put out there. It makes me laugh how every year people fall for the same thing. Just read the posts of hope from yesterday's blog. The same people, posting the same hope just like they do every year. It's sad like watching a dying kid on his death bed rooting for his favorite team that also happens to be the worst team in the league. When will you people WAKE UP and learn?

I don't care what they've sold. Their numbers have zero to do with what matters to us gamers. There has been NO innovation, and no "evolution", because last I checked evolution means moving forward not backward and I'll be damned if this gen's Madden isn't the posterchild for going backwards. You're fooling yourself if you even attempt to argue that when we can compare so many better football games that came out last generation.

Then they hire total shills with no game making background and that tells you even more how silly this all is. Who do these guys think they're kidding besides their loyal shill audience? This game is going nowhere just as it's gone nowhere all generation. Football gaming is dead. The licenses provided the coffin, then EA's staff of 3rd string QB's provided the nails with garbage performance after garbage performance. All these ******* icons and **** on the screen? It's clownery. At least in real football they bench you or cut you when you suck, but with EA they just promote you, pay you more money, put you out in the communities to gain and maintain the support of the regular shills, build up false hopes, put out a mediocre game, then tell you "wait til next year". You can't believe a word those guys say because it's all soaked in marketing hype, lack of self awareness, and a general delusion about the enormity of abilities that they clearly don't have the talent to live up to.

I'm going to just keep playing the oldies. Old Madden's, Tecmo Super Bowl's. Back then they didn't release trainwrecks and make excuses and over hype it. They did what they said they were going to do and the games were great for their time. The only way to fix Madden is to get rid of Tiburon and show them the directions to the unemployment office, then put them all on a blacklist to ensure none of their staff ever heads a design group again.

[jyoung]

Re: To EA and Madden Consumers, Madden Is a Success

To EA, Madden Is a Success

I agree with this.

But I think Madden consumers are getting a raw deal this gen. Madden this generation is not living up to any standard you can think of.

It's worse than the older PS2 Maddens. Worse than 2K5 and 2K8 Football. Worse than EA's other football franchise (NCAA 11). Worse than the other EA sports franchises (NHL 11, FIFA 11). And worse than the industry's best franchises (NBA 2K, MLB The Show).

But of course, sales are the only standard that matter to EA.

EA wins; consumers lose.

[aholbert32]

Re: To EA and Madden Consumers, Madden Is a Success

"I'm gonna play the oldies" always cracks me up. Really? You prefer Tecmo Super Bowl over Madden 11? Really?

I love Tecmo Super Bowl. I love some of the old Madden's but come on. For all the things you complain about Madden, the older games had none of them. Tecmo had 8 plays per team. 8 plays! That game was fun as hell back in the day but today it pales in comparison.

The problem is back in the day we gave games a pass because they were fun. People ignored Tecmo Super Bowl's issues because it was fun. We dont give current games that kind of pass. We expect them to be supersims and get upset when they have flaws.

I have a ton of issues with Madden 11 (Special Teams sucks, Broken Gameplanning, Penalties like offsides and PI still broken) and many of these have been issues for years. The reason I'm able to ignore it is because I'm willing to give it the same pass I gave games like Tecmo in the past.

I dont know how anyone could enjoy Tecmo today but hate Madden unless they were holding them to a different standard.

[khaliib]

Well, the one thing write-ups like this do is stir great discussion and/or debate.

The trap is see pertaining to Madden in many replies is that the debate of quality/progress is kept in the "Sports" genre bubble. It's debated off of other football (wait, there is no other football) or sports titles as to how good it is.

Well if we want to really analyze a game, it has to be compared to all games made for these systems, not just a specific genre. Doing so will really reveal where a game stands.

With that, comparing Madden to other games, you can see that it is far behind were some of these other games are at. Is there a complete game out there, no, but no other developer has Exclusive Rights to a major brand, that shut out the opportunity for others.

When you look at 1st person shooters and see the level of graphic detail that has progressed with these games, why does Madden not come close with all the resources it has?

-Even Racing Sims have raised the level of detail to new levels
-That;s why we bought these consoles. For the graphic details we know these systems can run.

What "WOW" injection has Madden brought to the table since the 360/PS3 came out?
-Many of the features now being included are knock-offs from older games years before.

If it is based off of financial numbers, then one could argue/debate success or failure because those type of dollars are beyond what most of us will ever make in our liftime. So such high figures are always seen as a good thing.

Also, financial numbers for Madden will always be skewed because it is based off of how many bought the product, but does not subtract those dollars back out from those who returned the product..

True success using this method should be based off of those who bought the game and still retains it until the next release.

I'm trying to think of one innovatibe thing that Madden has done that has changed football gaming.
I can't, so it's hard for me to agree with this writer and say it's a success.

[statum71]

Statum, I would like to see real offensive line logic, and reading the holes actually mattering. not let me get lucky in a a certain animation that lets me break a 4 man gang tackle that I have absolutely no control of. I could care less about presentation, until fundamental football is done right.

My man.....

I never said gameplay couldn't use improvement too. I just spoke for myself.

I'm sorry but miss-timed commentary, half empty stadiums in an AFC Title game, no halftime or post game reports, no sideline reporting, no stat banners, repetitve commentary and on and on....

These things kill the experience MORE for myself. Not saying by any means that people bigger on gameplay don't have a beef too. EA is big enough to have resourses to improve in all areas. We shouldn't have to pick one.

[LiquorLogic]

Re: To EA and Madden Consumers, Madden Is a Success

Madden a is success; based on what exactly ? There are sources that say sales are growing,but there are also just as many sources that say sales are starting to slide. Who knows who is right ? You would think that if sales were truly growing every year, there wouldn't be so much info stating otherwise, but( again) who knows ?

What we do know is that there were two games released six and three years ago ( respectively) that many people favor over the latest iteration of Madden. That's a disgrace! Look at other sports titles, or other games from other genres, and you won't see that phenomenon.

What we do know is that Madden 05 had more options, and features, than Madden 11. There's no excuse for that.

Also, EA's overhead, due to the expensive licensing fee, is much higher, so even if their sales have grown the over the years, have they increased enough for EA to still gain some sort of profit ?

That was a Y-O-Y figure. Totals sales are probably going to end up roughly flat to slightly down. Saying Madden didn't sell well one month and saying it's a failure is roughly equivalent to saying an NFL team has had a bad season for losing two weeks in a row, even though it appears they're playoff bound.

That doesn't equate to being a success. Remember, the exclusive license has severely increased EA's overhead, so sales need to increase to the same degree. Profits equal success, not sales figures.

[1WEiRDguy]

"I'm gonna play the oldies" always cracks me up. Really? You prefer Tecmo Super Bowl over Madden 11? Really?

I love Tecmo Super Bowl. I love some of the old Madden's but come on. For all the things you complain about Madden, the older games had none of them. Tecmo had 8 plays per team. 8 plays! That game was fun as hell back in the day but today it pales in comparison.

The problem is back in the day we gave games a pass because they were fun. People ignored Tecmo Super Bowl's issues because it was fun. We dont give current games that kind of pass. We expect them to be supersims and get upset when they have flaws.

I have a ton of issues with Madden 11 (Special Teams sucks, Broken Gameplanning, Penalties like offsides and PI still broken) and many of these have been issues for years. The reason I'm able to ignore it is because I'm willing to give it the same pass I gave games like Tecmo in the past.

I dont know how anyone could enjoy Tecmo today but hate Madden unless they were holding them to a different standard.

to be honest man...i dont know ANYONE who uses more than about 10-12 plays over and over in madden...how many times have you seen someone successfully run a reverse?

my point is, quality over quanity...at least in tecmo bowl (other than the zig zag DL exploit) the other user had to pick your exact play to "blitz" you. Even with a very limited playbook, i can probably count on one hand how many times the cpu or another user guessed my play. Hell for the early version of Tecmo Bowl, they didnt even have the NFL...but they had the Players Union which let people have the names of the players.

[pietasterp]

Re: To EA and Madden Consumers, Madden Is a Success

Well, I give Chris Sanner credit for taking on the responsibility of defending Madden to a pretty rabid sports gaming fanbase. Nothing he said in the op/ed is that controversial, frankly - without knowing the exact financials, I presume EA is happy with Madden's performance, and everyone keeps buying the game, so I assume that means they are at least semi-satisfied with it (although people buying the game doesn't necessarily mean they think the game's a success...but that's another conversation). It's true that games are held to higher standard today, but shouldn't that be the case? I mean, I think with all the processing power and advances in games in other genres, it's reasonable to hold the games to a more modern standard. But that's neither here nor there.

Whether or not Madden is a "success", however you want to define that term, for a lot of people (myself among them) the name/brand represent much of what is wrong with sports gaming in this current generation. That stigma is unlikely to go away no matter what they do, and in my mind, was stamped the day they signed the exclusivity deal and will never be erased. Once you come to it with that mind-set, it's really hard to see past anything else, even if they do a lot of good things with the game.

In the end, if people have a good time with the game, then great. There's just too much negative mojo surrounding the game for me to ever really enjoy it....not to mention, the game just bores me to death. Success? It's all in the eye of the beholder....

[WakeUp]

I'm gonna play the oldies" always cracks me up. Really? You prefer Tecmo Super Bowl over Madden 11? Really?

That's nice that it cracks you up. But you've missed the point entirely so I'm not exactly sure what you found funny. Add on the point that I mentioned past Madden's as well and not just Tecmo Super Bowl and it's more puzzling.

To clarify, I don't directly prefer Tecmo Super Bowl over Madden 11, I prefer a FUN football game that accomplishes what it set out to do over one that sucks and is mediocre in every area. So you could plug in a ton of football games in place of TSB that I'd rather play than Madden 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, and 11.

I love Tecmo Super Bowl. I love some of the old Madden's but come on. For all the things you complain about Madden, the older games had none of them. Tecmo had 8 plays per team. 8 plays! That game was fun as hell back in the day but today it pales in comparison.

This is why you missed the point. I'm not comparing it to Madden in that way. When I take a classic car for a drive, I don't compare it to a Mercedes made today. I appreciate the classic and marvel at what they were able to accomplish for its time. And if the Mercedes I buy new happens to be missing essential parts that cars of the past had, then I'm going to be real about the situation and admit that the Mercedes I just bought is lacking in critical areas and it's unacceptable. Your perspective of appreciation is supposed to be set for the time in which the object of appreciation came into being. When I play Tecmo Bowl I appreciate it for what it was for it's time, not based on today and I can enjoy it for that. How can I enjoy Madden knowing that it's actually a game made today that's behind it's time in so many easily identifiable areas? That may be okay for you, but not for me. I expect better because better was already done. I don't wanna enjoy high end aged steak on a regular and then be forced to eat hamburger with a few jazzed up side dishes just because it's new, because it's still just a hamburger. No thanks.

Furthermore, back in the older days we didn't complain the way we do now because the frame of reference was so much smaller. We didn't have message boards with 10's of thousands of people pointing out every single flaw. Besides that, when Tecmo was at their height, there was very little to compare it to and it was in most people's minds the best 8-bit football game ever made. But times have changed, technology has advanced and I expect (as I should) for Madden to make me marvel the way I did with games that were the best of their time did, like Madden USED to make me marvel, like other football games made me marvel last generation. But that's not happening now and the game isn't fun to me anymore and it's just not as a tight a package as a number of past football games have been. Franchise is not as a good as last generation, presentation blows compared to old competitive efforts from last generation and other sports games this generation, the animations are not smooth like last gen Madden and are far behind other sports titles, and so much more. This game is a crock.

I dont know how anyone could enjoy Tecmo today but hate Madden unless they were holding them to a different standard.

If evolution in gaming exists, and it does, then it's indisputable that we're supposed to hold the games of today to a higher standard than those of yesterday. We're going to do that anyway, since we do in fact expect so much more. However, Madden seems to be the one franchise where mediocrity and poor performance is accepted and defended tooth and nail.

[TheCreep]

For all of you gents that dont like Madden and claim it is broken. I have two key words for you. Subjective opinion. I'm a sim head through and through and I absolutely love the game. Especially Madden/NCAA 11. I can really agree about 06-09 versions. Not so great, but to still be harping on em after 10 and 11. Come on now.

I too would love a new phyics engine and boy oh boy I'm still waiting on decent presentation. Oh and I want my Ion 4d ropo with the correct facemask and u bar too, but claiming Madden is pretty much garbage, you all have lost every last marble. Might wanna find em lol.

[KingV2k3]

I replied to the "contrasting" article, and this one reinforces my point(s)...

Marketing at EA is driving the creative "bus", just like accounting used to control the creative decisions at music companies in their heyday,,,

It's just the way it is,,,

The game is targeted at casual, online randoms and head to head, NOT the offline sim franchise player for exactly that reason,,,what we want eats up a lot of resourse and man power to please a relatively small portion of their overall market,,,

So where would that motivation come from?

Madden competes with Madden and the "victory" is in the numbers...

So what if they're down a bit...

So is the entire economy...there hit is probably minor compared to other non essential purchase items...

We'd all like them to compete with the 2K Series, The Show, etc. on a creative / inovation in the marketplace level...

But how does that "play" to "The Marketeers"?

No so mucho...

I would just like more customization overall, so I can put in the man hours to get it to play as close as it can to the "sim" ideal...

That would (continue) to be close enough (or in this case, even closer) for me....

Yeah, '11 is flawed, but after putting in a ton of reseach, testing and man hours, I have it playing well enough to really enjoy it...

The other sports titles I enjoy (The Show, NBA2k, NCAA11) don't take nearly as long to drag decent gameplay out of, but after a decade, I hate to say, I'm pretty used to and begrudgingly accepting of...

And, yeah...against my best intentions, I'l keep buying it every year...so it's my fault too...