Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

[RaychelSnr]

The Madden series is one that originally helped to define the term "video game stats." So it should come as no surprise that Madden 11's short-lived shelf life is already being badgered by a near-unanimous questioning of "where's the defense?"

For football fans trying to reconcile themselves to another "offense-heavy" version of Madden, it feels like forever -- not six years ago -- when Ray Lewis first jumped off the cover of Madden NFL 2005, sprinted through the A gap and finally showed armchair quarterbacks what it was like to "Fear the D."

Line shifts, defensive hot routes and the brand-new "Hit Stick" were some of the key features that helped distance Madden NFL 2005 from the sideline-rollouts and 70-yard streak passes of Madden NFL 2004. After all, let's not forget that Madden 04 is most-remembered for the "god status" it ascribed to cover athlete Michael Vick and his unstoppable, scramble-based offense.

But while the marketing of Madden NFL 2005 heavily emphasized the game's new defensive features, it's the balanced gameplay for which Madden NFL 2005 has become fondly remembered -- a balance that, thus far, remains nonexistent in Madden NFL 2011.

Read More - Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

[BezO]

Re: Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

The Hit Stick is now something defenders should attempt when the ball carrier has already been slowed or staggered by a teammate's initial tackle. In other words, the player needs to become an easy, stationary target not unlike the wild elk hunted by Jared Allen in the offseason.

Ha! Good luck engaging.

Not that I liked the hit stick's effectiveness before, but lowering it was just one more thing that tipped the see saw all the way to the offense. This is one of the most lop sided Maddens I can remember. Maybe EA thinks gamers only want to have fun half the time.

[rooney8]

Re: Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

Do casual fans actually enjoy not being able to do anything on Defense?

[archibalduk]

Well I could possibly what you could term a "casual" fan in that I have no tactical knowledge and at the moment rely solely on GameFlow (although I'd really love to get my teeth into learning the tactics/plays) - and other than a brief phase of playing Madden 2001, Madden 11 is my first real NFL game. I can tell you that I REALLY DON'T like not being able to do anything on defence! Although I am enjoying the game, I really do feel limited when playing on the defence - and I'm starting to get the impression I should have saved the money and picked up an older version of the game.

Another thing is that the manual neglects explaining much about defence. Although the menu mentions that pressing the right stick down whilst engaged performs a power move and left/right perform a finesse move, looking at the control settings from the ingame menus it doesn't state that the right analogue stick performs any defensive moves. It's very confusing for newcomers to the series like myself. On the other hand, there's plenty of explanation of the offensive right analogue stick - why not put that much detail in explaining the hit stick?!

[RUFFNREADY]

I gues we all have to wait for madden 12.

[josef]

Saints with no hit-stickers!? Ouch.. Where's Vilma at least? I sort of miss the easier hit stick tackles.. Me and my buddies would always cringe and/or go nuts when we connected or got handed a hit-stick smack down. I understand they are trying to make it more risk/reward but I also like to have fun. Defense just feels a little blah. Still loving the game though.

[7stringking]

IDK...I think this year's madden is better than that one back on PS2..in many ways

[Nerox23]

After watching that video im getting suh on my team in franchise mode

[mike291md]

Re: Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

I gues we all have to wait for madden 12.

You're probably right lol but it sure does get tiring having to say this to ourselves every year.

Someone in another thread brought up an interesting idea that the game could become subscription based, much like MMOs are. Rather than stopping work on Madden 11 at a certain time so they can focus on 12, do it like an MMO and work on just Madden. Do away with having Madden 1, 2, 12, etc...give small roster and gaming updates every week and have a huge game expansion come out every year. Just food for thought.

[guaps]

Re: Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

I'll try and make this short

First of all, I found your post to be a great read. I just want to further elaborate on some of the issues you mention.

While EA sports has got the acceleration 'right' for quarterback vs. defensive linemen, as you write, they haven't got acceleration right.

Acceleration is how fast you reach top speed, which the game is not able to simulate. I mentioned this first when EA released the locomotion blog. Think of acceleration as a car race.

Car A is able to accelerate from 0-60 mph in 5 seconds, but has a top speed of 60 mph. Car B accelerates from 0-60 mph in 8 seconds, but has a top speed of 120 mph.

If the cars start at the same time, Car A will accelerate away from Car B for the first 8 seconds, period. After 8 seconds Car B will start to close the gap and eventually take the lead, if the track is long enough.

Now try looking at the locomotion blog, or put Wes Welker next to Randy Moss in practice mode and run streaks and you will see that Madden 11 unfortunately doesn't get it right.

Secondly, you mention Newton's Second Law of Motion (Force = Mass x Acceleration), but if Madden doesn't get acceleration right, and does not have player mass (at least with the current physics engine), then there is no possibility of getting hit power right.

My theory behind the Hit Power rating is, that linebackers and defensive backs usually are in motion (mass x acceleration) when tackling, thus appearing to have more hit power. But defensive linemen would need less speed to obtain the same force due to their size and weight, and because they usually aren't at high speeds when tackling, they get a low Hit Power rating.

If EA Sports were to fix acceleration and incorporate mass into the game, tackling would be function of Newton's Third Law of Motion, Force versus Force, which is the essence of football.

In the above motion refers to the momentum of a player.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

As others have noted in various threads - it's WAY past time for Tiburon to take a balanced approach to developing the game. We should be far beyond the days of 1-on-1 player interaction/tackling but much of Madden (and NCAA) is still like that. You really can't come in and "finish" a runner that's been staggered because the animation system won't allow that interaction to occur. The system of interaction in place limits the defense too much, where a lot of times it seems you have to rely on the luck of the draw to bring an offensive player down. It's just silly this is still an issue in Tiburon's football games at this point. The risk/reward aspect of the hit stick would present a good dynamic is the animation system were up to snuff. But the author does a decent job of showing just how out of whack Tiburon's ratings system is. Doesn't make sense.

[guaps]

Re: Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

As others have noted in various threads - it's WAY past time for Tiburon to take a balanced approach to developing the game. We should be far beyond the days of 1-on-1 player interaction/tackling but much of Madden (and NCAA) is still like that. You really can't come in and "finish" a runner that's been staggered because the animation system won't allow that interaction to occur. The system of interaction in place limits the defense too much, where a lot of times it seems you have to rely on the luck of the draw to bring an offensive player down. It's just silly this is still an issue in Tiburon's football games at this point. The risk/reward aspect of the hit stick would present a good dynamic is the animation system were up to snuff. But the author does a decent job of showing just how out of whack Tiburon's ratings system is. Doesn't make sense.

EA Vancouver successfully removed the 1-on-1 animation in NBA Elite 11, and I'm hoping Madden is next in line for that update.

From the NBA Elite blog:
"The number one reason we wanted to move towards Real Physics was to eliminate the two player animations that were commonplace in NBA LIVE.

One of my biggest frustrations in playing last year’s game was how often you lost control over your player due to these two player animations.

...

Integrating physics into NBA ELITE 11 has had a huge impact on the gameplay experience. The animation system is much more dynamic and responsive to both the physics system and the user’s input, defense has been made both fun and effective by giving control to the player"

[GreenReign86]

Because second-unit linebackers and backup safeties make up a large portion of the special teams units in Madden NFL 11, it is important to have big hitters on your special teams units who can cause turnovers and provide that one crucial extra position.

I go out and sign players for just this very reason, in my online franchises. And sometimes I may trade for them as well. For instance, I traded for Des Bishop, and Roy Williams. Basically everyone on my special teams has a hit power of 80 or higher.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: Madden NFL 11: The How and Why's of Hit Sticking

EA Vancouver successfully removed the 1-on-1 animation in NBA Elite 11, and I'm hoping Madden is next in line for that update.

The "real-time physics" aspect of Elite and NHL11 seem limited in their own right though. I haven't seen it all, but everything I've seen has been two-players interacting. I haven't seen any video that has had 3+players interacting simultaneously free form in real-time. While real-time physics are ultimately desired, I don't think it's a necessity at this point. It's just that Tiburon's approach to motion-capture seems so inadequate that it's actually worse than what football games from other developers were already doing last gen

[shadthedad]

Great read! In fact it's one of the best reads I have read on this site. The funny thing is that one of my buddies was talking to Jerome Bettis and asked him hits the hardest in the league....Ray Lewis? Jerome looked at him like a moron and said no, all defensive lineman. In Maddens defense, when a defensive lineman wraps you up behind the line of scrimmage, you rarely shed the tackle.