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NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

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  • RealmK
    Banned
    • Sep 2003
    • 4198

    #31
    Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

    Originally posted by baa7
    Funny how whenever Eddie shows up, these threads suddenly break down into people having to defend their comments and opinions.
    I made a comment about him some months back, I won't repete what I said but I'm still pretty convinced of it.

    Comment

    • Eddie1967
      Against The Crowd!
      • Aug 2005
      • 2404

      #32
      Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

      [quote=baa7;2039731746]Funny how whenever Eddie shows up, these threads suddenly break down into people having to defend their comments and opinions. [/quote

      Some people should have to defend their comments instead of mindlessly bashing and rehashing the same thing year after year. Not saying you, but some other people. If I did that in the NHL 09 forum it would be called trolling.
      Originally posted by jim416
      You are the 2k Police. :)

      Comment

      • baa7
        Banned
        • Jul 2004
        • 11691

        #33
        Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

        Originally posted by Eddie1967
        If I did that in the NHL 09 forum it would be called trolling.
        It would be trolling if you went to the EA-NHL forum intent on posting negative comments, sure.

        Anyway, reading this thread a second time through, all I see here are people giving their honest opinions on the article. The fact is, 2K/VC announced the very same thing regarding MLB 2K9, pre-release. And that game took a serious hit as far as gameplay and features go. VC seems intent on simplifying their games in an effort appeal to the casual gamer. They in fact appear to be in the process of reinventing their various sports series, given they no doubt realize they're behind the eight ball, and have to do something extreme and much more mainstream in order to survive and compete.

        And no, that change is not all positive. Lisa posted a terrific overview a few months back comparing NHL 2K8 and 2K9, and outlining all the missing and removed features and options in NHL 2K9. This issue is not about VC simply putting out a sim game that will appear to casual gamers. This is about VC removing sim features, in order to appeal to the pick up and play crowd. They did it with both NHL 2K9 and MLB 2K9.
        Last edited by baa7; 06-21-2009, 11:29 AM.

        Comment

        • Eddie1967
          Against The Crowd!
          • Aug 2005
          • 2404

          #34
          Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

          Originally posted by baa7
          It would be trolling if you went to the EA-NHL forum intent on posting negative comments, sure.

          Anyway, reading this thread a second time through, all I see here are people giving their honest opinions on the article. The fact is, 2K/VC announced the very same thing regarding MLB 2K9, pre-release. And that game took a serious hit as far as gameplay and features go. VC seems intent on simplifying their games in an effort appeal to the casual gamer. They in fact appear to be in the process of reinventing their various sports series, given they no doubt realize they're behind the eight ball, and have to do something extreme and much more mainstream in order to survive and compete.

          And no, that change is not all positive. Lisa posted a terrific overview a few months back comparing NHL 2K8 and 2K9, and outlining all the missing and removed features and options in NHL 2K9. This issue is not about VC simply putting out a sim game that will appear to casual gamers. This is about VC removing sim features, in order to appeal to the pick up and play crowd. They did it with both NHL 2K9 and MLB 2K9.

          See this is where I disagree. I thought MLB2K9 was much better than last years version. Sure it wasn't perfect and had the usual 2k flaws, but IMO it truly plays a good game of baseball. The presentation was far better than anything 2k had prior to this year, signature style is still unmatched, and the game play was much improved and the hiccups were fixed with the patch. I'm not sure what features people wanted, maybe some more sliders and that I agree with.

          2k Hockey is still is head and shoulders above EA's IMO. The goalies are better, the A.I. although not perfect is still pretty good and doesn't cheat to beat you. I'm not sure how someone could say 2k9 was not an improvement over every other version of 2k hockey. EA has never been a true simulation of the sport of hockey. Having super goalies and tape to tape passing and having the AI turn it on whenever it wants to along with 3rd and fourth liners playing like superstars just means the game is difficult but not good or realistic in anyway.

          I would like to know what "sim" features were removed from 2k9. Maybe I missed something.
          Originally posted by jim416
          You are the 2k Police. :)

          Comment

          • Flyermania
            MVP
            • Jun 2004
            • 2182

            #35
            Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

            Originally posted by Eddie1967
            2k Hockey is still is head and shoulders above EA's IMO. The goalies are better, the A.I. although not perfect is still pretty good and doesn't cheat to beat you. I'm not sure how someone could say 2k9 was not an improvement over every other version of 2k hockey. EA has never been a true simulation of the sport of hockey. Having super goalies and tape to tape passing and having the AI turn it on whenever it wants to along with 3rd and fourth liners playing like superstars just means the game is difficult but not good or realistic in anyway.
            You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'm hard pressed to call 2k9 anything close to sim either. The AI "D" leaves so much to be desired...it has a "hit first" philosophy and consistently goes for the hit and is out of position. This leaves the human player constantly trying to make up for his CPU-controlled teammates. Offensively the CPU likes to try to skate into the middle of the zone and shoot rather than pass or try and set up any offense. And the CPU still has issues in the shootout, something that has been in this series since 2k6 -- despite being "built from the ground up" with 2k9.

            Much like EA, 2k has never been close to being a true simulation of the sport of hockey either.
            "And by the way, you know, when you're telling these little stories? Here's a good idea - have a POINT. It makes it SO much more interesting for the listener!"

            Comment

            • RealmK
              Banned
              • Sep 2003
              • 4198

              #36
              Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

              Originally posted by Eddie1967
              See this is where I disagree. I thought MLB2K9 was much better than last years version. Sure it wasn't perfect and had the usual 2k flaws, but IMO it truly plays a good game of baseball. The presentation was far better than anything 2k had prior to this year, signature style is still unmatched, and the game play was much improved and the hiccups were fixed with the patch. I'm not sure what features people wanted, maybe some more sliders and that I agree with.

              2k Hockey is still is head and shoulders above EA's IMO. The goalies are better, the A.I. although not perfect is still pretty good and doesn't cheat to beat you. I'm not sure how someone could say 2k9 was not an improvement over every other version of 2k hockey. EA has never been a true simulation of the sport of hockey. Having super goalies and tape to tape passing and having the AI turn it on whenever it wants to along with 3rd and fourth liners playing like superstars just means the game is difficult but not good or realistic in anyway.

              I would like to know what "sim" features were removed from 2k9. Maybe I missed something.

              Have you played a 2k hockey game? Do you watch real hockey? Do you understand what positional play is? The AI on any level above pro gets speed boosts to compensate a challenge. (This isn't new either, its been there since 2k4 at least) Get a breakaway with a speedy foward like Phil Kessel be prepaired to get chased down by a slow Dman like Hal Gill. As for features that were in 2k8 and prior games that are now missing? How about a dedicated board pin button? Yeah thats right, 2k9's board play is pretty much like NHL09's board play. How about line chemestry? Yep thats gone too.

              Its amazing to me that you jump all over certain people posting flaws in NHL2k, claiming 2k to be perfect, when those same people are very quick to point out the flaws with EA's game as well. Its really strange that you won't even acknowledge any of the bugs in 2k's title at all. Its like you put your fingers in your ears and hum la la la I can't hear you! Just really odd man. Honestly makes one wonder if you have some sort of agenda.

              Comment

              • ohyeahbaby123
                Pro
                • Apr 2007
                • 920

                #37
                Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

                ^He really is the 2k police. :wink:
                Originally posted by iBlievN5
                there... are... people in australia?
                Originally posted by LoCo-LINEBACKER-
                Yes, theyre are, healthy people to, not the obese kind.

                Comment

                • Scottdau
                  Banned
                  • Feb 2003
                  • 32580

                  #38
                  Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

                  I don't get run down with my sliders. Well, actually that part of my sliders are Orginal6.

                  Comment

                  • RealmK
                    Banned
                    • Sep 2003
                    • 4198

                    #39
                    Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

                    Originally posted by Scottdau
                    I don't get run down with my sliders. Well, actually that part of my sliders are Orginal6.
                    Speaking of those tried the first set you sent me. Thought they were awful, AI dmen doing spin a ramas and driving into the offensive zone themselves. I'll try the second set tonight though.

                    Comment

                    • savoie2006
                      R.I.P 2KHockey 2000-2011
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 4657

                      #40
                      Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

                      Much like EA, 2k has never been close to being a true simulation of the sport of hockey either.
                      But, each do certain things right that the other does not. Just since moving to the 360 they have swapped places. EA is the one getting better and better, while 2K has been on a steady decline. I don't pick a favorite publisher, it's who makes the better hockey game overall. NHL2K for the Dreamcast through NHL 2K6 for XBOX/XBOX360, were the best to be had at that time. EA was crap. 07/2K7 were both subpar. NHL08 is when EA officially got my vote again, though I did play my share of 2K8, due to frustrations with 08. I will give 2K10 a shot, but I don't honestly see VC taking EA's title this year, maybe for 2K11.
                      http://rateyourmusic.com/collection/Savoie12/visual/

                      Comment

                      • Scottdau
                        Banned
                        • Feb 2003
                        • 32580

                        #41
                        Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

                        Originally posted by RealmK
                        Speaking of those tried the first set you sent me. Thought they were awful, AI dmen doing spin a ramas and driving into the offensive zone themselves. I'll try the second set tonight though.
                        Yeah the second is better.

                        Comment

                        • Eddie1967
                          Against The Crowd!
                          • Aug 2005
                          • 2404

                          #42
                          Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

                          Originally posted by RealmK
                          Have you played a 2k hockey game? Do you watch real hockey? Do you understand what positional play is? The AI on any level above pro gets speed boosts to compensate a challenge. (This isn't new either, its been there since 2k4 at least) Get a breakaway with a speedy foward like Phil Kessel be prepaired to get chased down by a slow Dman like Hal Gill. As for features that were in 2k8 and prior games that are now missing? How about a dedicated board pin button? Yeah thats right, 2k9's board play is pretty much like NHL09's board play. How about line chemestry? Yep thats gone too.

                          Its amazing to me that you jump all over certain people posting flaws in NHL2k, claiming 2k to be perfect, when those same people are very quick to point out the flaws with EA's game as well. Its really strange that you won't even acknowledge any of the bugs in 2k's title at all. Its like you put your fingers in your ears and hum la la la I can't hear you! Just really odd man. Honestly makes one wonder if you have some sort of agenda.

                          la la la, lol, that's a good one. Of course 2k has bugs, it's not perfect it just represents the game of hockey better than EA for me. It feels more organic while EA feels scripted. 2K's franchise mode is a disgrace with a game killing bug every year it seems. I never used the board pin button but I still see board play done pretty well in 2k9. I didn't miss the line chemistry option this year, If it's back for 2k10 great, if not well..... The A.I. could always stand to see some improvements but I don't see the speed boosts by the cpu. 2k9 was the best hockey game I have ever played. People will take that to mean that I'm saying it was perfect but that's not it, it is just better than any other hockey game I have played bugs and all. VC did a wonderful job of improving this game in such a short time, meaning one development cycle and I can only see it getting better. What people see in EA besides pretty graphics, I will never understand but hey to each his own.
                          Originally posted by jim416
                          You are the 2k Police. :)

                          Comment

                          • Eddie1967
                            Against The Crowd!
                            • Aug 2005
                            • 2404

                            #43
                            Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

                            Originally posted by Flyermania
                            You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I'm hard pressed to call 2k9 anything close to sim either. The AI "D" leaves so much to be desired...it has a "hit first" philosophy and consistently goes for the hit and is out of position. This leaves the human player constantly trying to make up for his CPU-controlled teammates. Offensively the CPU likes to try to skate into the middle of the zone and shoot rather than pass or try and set up any offense. And the CPU still has issues in the shootout, something that has been in this series since 2k6 -- despite being "built from the ground up" with 2k9.

                            Much like EA, 2k has never been close to being a true simulation of the sport of hockey either.
                            The cpu controlled teammates could use an upgrade in the A.I. department. I disagree about the cpu always skating up the middle and shooting, yes it happens but it also cycles the puck and looks for opportunities to score. 2K9 definitely has flaws but it is much more realistic to me, maybe it's the little things, but to me it just feels more like the NHL. EA feels a bit arcade to me. I hope they both improve because I have no problem spending money on two games of the same sport.
                            Originally posted by jim416
                            You are the 2k Police. :)

                            Comment

                            • RealmK
                              Banned
                              • Sep 2003
                              • 4198

                              #44
                              Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

                              Originally posted by Eddie1967
                              la la la, lol, that's a good one. Of course 2k has bugs, it's not perfect it just represents the game of hockey better than EA for me. It feels more organic while EA feels scripted. 2K's franchise mode is a disgrace with a game killing bug every year it seems. I never used the board pin button but I still see board play done pretty well in 2k9. I didn't miss the line chemistry option this year, If it's back for 2k10 great, if not well..... The A.I. could always stand to see some improvements but I don't see the speed boosts by the cpu. 2k9 was the best hockey game I have ever played. People will take that to mean that I'm saying it was perfect but that's not it, it is just better than any other hockey game I have played bugs and all. VC did a wonderful job of improving this game in such a short time, meaning one development cycle and I can only see it getting better. What people see in EA besides pretty graphics, I will never understand but hey to each his own.
                              The ai is completely anemic and your response is it could stand for some improvements? Were you not one of the guys bashing NHL09 for its lack of board play but when someone points out how its now pretty much the same without a dedicated pin button it doesn't matter? Do you play above pro level? How anyone couldn't see AI players regardless of their speed rating, buzzing all over like its nothing? NHL2k9 was announced via press release as being in development a good 4-5 months before NHL2k8 even shipped, the shortened dev cycle excuse I really question if there even was that much of a shortened dev cycle at all.

                              I've said it before I'll say it again, puck physics, goalie animations, some decent checking animations, and face offs don't make a complete package. 2k9 does do some things very well, its hardly the greatest sim game ever that you make it out to be to me thats still reserved for NHL2k3. On the other hand neither is NHL09, but to say that all NHL09 is is pretty graphics is pretty laughable.

                              Comment

                              • dorismary
                                Banned
                                • Jan 2009
                                • 3794

                                #45
                                Re: NHL 2K10: First Look (Gamespot)

                                Originally posted by RealmK
                                The ai is completely anemic and your response is it could stand for some improvements? Were you not one of the guys bashing NHL09 for its lack of board play but when someone points out how its now pretty much the same without a dedicated pin button it doesn't matter? Do you play above pro level? How anyone couldn't see AI players regardless of their speed rating, buzzing all over like its nothing? NHL2k9 was announced via press release as being in development a good 4-5 months before NHL2k8 even shipped, the shortened dev cycle excuse I really question if there even was that much of a shortened dev cycle at all.

                                I've said it before I'll say it again, puck physics, goalie animations, some decent checking animations, and face offs don't make a complete package. 2k9 does do some things very well, its hardly the greatest sim game ever that you make it out to be to me thats still reserved for NHL2k3. On the other hand neither is NHL09, but to say that all NHL09 is is pretty graphics is pretty laughable.
                                Although neither was a classic and i agree with you about 2k3 .
                                I think Eddie 1967 is correct about NHL 09 was mostly about pretty graphics and with little replay value offline and a lackluster Dy Nasty mode.
                                Best looking sports game ever ! but substance was lacking IMO.
                                Was 2k9 any better ? not really but it showed promise and a direction it was gonna be going good or bad .
                                Well heres to possibly having 2 great games this year !

                                Comment

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