No, a lot of those games were bullshit displays of ridiculous fouling.

I’m not listening to podcasts or talking heads. I’ve just been watching the games because my son has gotten into it. And, it is abysmal to watch with the style of play they have.

You’d be hard pressed to find two teams that I am less interested in that these two, but after watching SGA’s bullshit push offs and arm hooks. And seeing him lay on the ground for 30 seconds every time a foul is called and throw his hands up in frustration nearly every time he drives, whether he makes it or not, I would absolutely love to see a Mahorn or Oakley put 5 or 6 fouls on him a game over the course of a series. He’s a ridiculously skilled, outstanding player, but the approach and body language is awful to watch. Last night, while on his pivot foot with ball he headbutted a stationary defender in the chest and then the shoulder and got a foul call 5 ft behind the 3 point line. If he’s not going to get laid out, hopefully the refs start calling fouls on the contact he initiates and technicals on his pissy body language.

I’m now a fan of the Pacers. I love how they run and hustle and push in offense the entire game. I quit watching the NBA years ago, because it wasn’t worth it to watch a full game when they just screw around and play one on one for the first three quarters, but watching the style the Pacers, Celtics, and Nuggets play has made me a fan again.

In an ideal world I'd prefer a middle ground between the BS calls SGA gets and the BS fouls the Pistons got away with, but if I had to choose only between the two I'd pick the former. It was absolutely no fun watching the Pistons literally assault and batter their way through games, neutering talent and enjoyment of the game in pursuit of primarily, it seemed, resolving their own personal mental and emotional issues and secondarily winning games.

All time one sided officiated half so far.

Minutes later the refs give another free possession to OKC and then call a shooting foul on it.

Just brutal. Three more to OKC on the missed charge.

Pacers finally get some free throws and don’t hit them.

Game can still go either way.

And yet with 2 mins left, there's a 2 FTA difference in the teams and OKC has one MORE foul against them.

The team playing worse will probably foul more. What did the first half free throws look like? When I posted about them OKC was up 17-10. OKC had a terrible first half and the refs bailed them out. Mathurin had a spectacularly bad last two minutes.

Feels like those free throw misses in the 3rd quarter really crushed them. They had a chance to really pull away and let OKC hang around.

Here is the raw data that I charted during the game. Insert context as needed.

1st Qtr- IND had 5 fouls called against them resulting in OKC going 9/9 FTs, OKC had 5 fouls called against them resulting in IND going 9/10 FTs

2nd Qtr- IND had 5 fouls called against (1 Flagrant) OKC went 7/8 FTs, OKC 5 fouls called against them (1 Flagrant, 1 offensive) IND 2/3 FTs

3rd Qtr- IND 7 fouls called against (1 offensive) resulting in OKC going 5/6 FTs, OKC 7 fouls called against(1 offensive) 7/10 FTs for IND.

4th Qtr- IND 10 fouls called against 12/15 FTs for OKC, OKC 9 fouls called against resulting in 6/10 FTs for IND.

So by end of quarters
5-5 fouls
10-10 fouls
17-17 fouls
27 Indy fouls, 26 OKC fouls ... and based on the pbp, looks like the last three Indy fouls were intentionals, so through 47+ minutes, it was 26-24 OKC

For the game, OKC shot 5 more free throws ... but the last four of those were in the intentional foul minute.

The second half didn’t have many issues in officiating (minus that SGA push off travel) but the first half was egregious.

You had several “fouls” that the announcers and video pointed out were not actually fouls including a charge that put points on the board for OKC that shouldn’t have been there and the Caruso turnover that they somehow called wrong and ended up leading to 3 for OKC. You could even argue that flagrant (as the announce crew did) on OKC should have been a technical since the foul wasn’t on the guy that got the flagrant and should have sent a better free throw shooter to the line than it did.

When they pointed out at the half that OKC was only down three but it felt like alot more, the reason for that was all of the above.

I dont understand why there is no game tomorrow.

Game 3/4 are the only time in the Finals that had less than two off days between.

Seems to be in order to avoid Saturday (which they also did last year)

I saw the Memphis/Orlando trade on Twitter and 99.99% thought it was one of those fake sports trade deals, you know, where somebody is trolling.

I know I'm not an NBA guy or anything but 4 firsts (and other stuff) for a guy that I couldn't have named if you asked me to name 100 players in the league today just kinda feels like a little much.

Kind of my feeling too but it always seems like NBA teams don’t value these picks anyways as most of the guys just take up roster spaces. It seems like Orlando feels like they are entering their window and don’t feel like mid to late first round picks are going to help them for the next 4 years. I haven’t looked at their roster and contracts but they may also just not have room for these guys on their roster. That happenes sometimes too.

Looks like they needed outside shooting (Magic shot the worst mark in the league from 3) and Bane is a 40% shooter from downtown. Someone in the front office has decided that improving that will get them over the hump.

Bane is a very good player. Like dubb said, late first rounders just arent that valuable and the current nba leaves open for teams to contend even if you arent a super team. You see a team like Indiana have a solid chance to win the chip with 0 traditional superstars.

I think it's a good trade for both sides. The magic desperately needed outside shooting and Bane has the added bonus of being a good defender and a solid playmaker. One of the more underrated players in the game. There aren't many 20/5/5 guys on 47/40/88 career percentages with the added bonus of only being 26. The East is also potentially pretty open next year.

For the Grizz, this gives them a soft reset on a roster that seemed to be maxed out and the picks to swing a big trade at some point if someone becomes available.

The Magic already have their “superstars” in Wagner and Banchero averaging 25 and 24 ppg at 23 and 22. If those two continue to develop adding a good guard, which they don’t really have, could be a home run.

EDIT: The Magic ended the season with Cory Joseph and Kentavious Caldwell-Pope starting at the two guard spots.

I turned the game off last night when they called the foul during the jump ball.

Was only able to watch the 2nd quarter so I don’t have much thought on the entire game other than the Pacers can’t win when Halliburton’s stat line is that bed. You can’t call out the media for saying you aren’t a superstar and then not hit a single shot in this situation.

Haliburton is hurt. But he's also disappeared for a game or two in the other series, as well. Hard to know what's happening.

My daughter told me that someone quoted Doris Burke as saying that SGA doesn't push off, he just "releases contact." WTF does that mean?

He's hurt but holy hell the OKC defense is insanely good.

Lakers sell for $10 billion! What great timing for the league to have a young start entering his prime get traded to that team right before the sale was made!

The draft is next week. Some thoughts and things I've seen/read:

Kevin Pelton's projection system has Flagg as the 3rd best prospect his system has rated going into the draft behind Zion and Luka. Zero statistical weaknesses

Ace Bailey either as a promise from a team he likes outside the top 5 or he's just organically having the worst predraft process in recent memory. His team and media interviews have been a disaster and he's been refusing and/or canceling individual workouts with teams that he wouldn't be the focal point on immediately.

If the Sixers stay at 3 I think the pick is Edgecombe or Knueppel. Edgecombe is less of a fit but has elite defensive potential.

Derik Queen feels like a 90s big that teams are going to convince themselves can play at a high level in today's NBA despite the lack of athleticism, defense, and inability to finish at the rim.

I really like Cedric Coward as a guy that can step right in and do a lot of things to help you win without being a star.

I think Knueppel would fit with the Spurs far better than Harper, but it's going to be really difficult/impossible to pass him at 2.

Durant to the Rockets.

Suns get: Jalen Green, Dillon Brooks, 10th pick, 5 seconds.

That's a pretty light return for him, tbh. Green really doesn't do much other than score somewhat inefficiently, but he's still only 23 so you can convince yourself he's going to take a leap.

I'm surprised they could only pry one first from teams.

Durant is 36 and although he played 62 and 75 games in the past seasons, you then have to go back to the 18/19 season for one in which he played more than 55 games. He'll be paid ~$53M this year and unless extended will be a UFA after the upcoming season.

The 1st and 2nd apron really limit the potential trade partners for him, but this is still a strange and light return IMO. The Suns best 3 players now all play the same position and Green is the only one of the 3 that really makes any attempt to play defense. I don't know how you get these 3 on the floor at the same time. You're not going to be good with 2 of the 3 of the floor.

I'm surprised they weren't able to get Whitmore or Smith to balance the roster out. Green is due about $35 mil per starting next year and Brooks is getting $20 mil per. The Beal contract is untradeable. The smart thing to do at this point would be to start looking into trading Booker and just go all in on a rebuild, but I doubt the Suns would do that despite the fact that they're not competing any time soon with this roster and Booker will be at least 30 by the time they're able to clear cap space.

The Beal contract remains hilarious.

Yeah suns should go full rebuild and let Beal score close to 30 again on a 15 win team.

You could actually see his achilles pop. Holy shit.

Amd then they showed it again in slow-mo after the commercial break.

That really sucks. Unlikely but itd be great for him to get a championship ring.

This is Durant all over again. Calf strain turns into a blown Achilles.

That has got to be a team doctor’s worst nightmare. Any other time outside the last few weeks you’d sit him and he’d be fine, but obviously not an option here.

Confirmed Achilles. Just brutal.

They have shown the slow-mo replay like a half-dozen times, I swear. Everyone knew it was an Achilles before the first commercial break.

What an amazing series. I'm super impressed with the Pacers, not just how good they were but how poised and respectable. It was nice to see two teams go at it without any of the pointless bravado. In the end, I think (biased, of course) the better team won. That said, I hate it so much for Haliburton, by all accounts a great guy and great player. Just not fair.

I've celebrated championships for my teams, and some of them seem so incredibly personal. I maintain there's not a Cubs fan who didn't cry as an adult in 2016. I remember (yes, it's been a long time ago), the Dallas Super Bowl run in the early '90's. Hell, I remember the 1986 Orange Bowl for the Oklahoma Sooners like it was yesterday, and 2000 was a storybook year.

And though I've rooted for those teams longer (all since I can remember), there's nothing quite like winning in your home town. There's nothing quite like seeing these guys that represent Oklahoma City so well.

I thought 2012 was the start of something; it ended up being the start of an ending. Those teams never hooked me like this one, never made me so proud. I was in awe of their talent but was always left seeking their passion for each other. The contrast couldn't be more stark.

I know there aren't a lot of people out there rooting for the Thunder (mad respect to Seattle fans who are struggling right now). I know there are people that didn't want to watch two small market teams. You guys missed a hell of a series. I also know there are those that criticize SGA, whom I believe to be one of the singular talents in the NBA right now.

But for this one old man, it has warmed my heart. I can't wait for the parade on Tuesday. If you know OKC, you know the passion this city has for its people and its team. If you don't, come on down, and I'll buy you a beer.

Man, what a day.

I've seen/heard numerous people talking about how great Haliburton is as a player and person, but right before the playoffs, he was voted by NBA players as the most overrated player in the NBA. Aside from the couple of games he disappeared, and despite playing hurt, he clearly shut some people up, but there has to be something about him that pisses off other players. I don't follow player personalities that closely to know what it is.

The overrated poll really should be studied for how little methodology and sample size matter in polling. There are 450 players in the NBA. There were a total of 90 votes cast in that poll. Halliburton received 14.4% of the 90 votes. So like 13 of the 450 players in the league said he was overrated. In the same poll, 2 people thought players like Lebron and Giannis were overrated.

Is he worthy of being rated as a member of the All NBA third team two years in a row? I would have voted for Tyrese Maxey last year but Halliburton would have gotten my vote this year. Should he have been selected to last year's Olympic Team? I would not have selected him. I would have gone with a young college or first year American NBA player. I have no problem with him being selected though and wished he played more since he was selected.

I don't think there is this great hate for Tyrese in the league. As far as why other players might not like him, it could be because he is a troll. He is not a mean spirited troll as in talking about your kids or anything like that. But he is very willing and very capable holding his own in the trash talk department and it does not matter who he is going after. Sometimes people think it is cute, other times not so much. Everyone laughed at the choke sign when he hit the shot against the Knicks. Things were a bit more split when it was directed at Giannis and a injured Damien Lillard.

I think part of him not playing much in the Olympics was the same reason he started the season this year (and why the Pacers started so slow) and it was because he was hurt. He didn't really start playing his best ball until January. His +/- was -58 in October and November and while positive in December was half of what it was in January. He also was shooting 3s at low 30% the first few months before cranking it up over 40% in 2025. In hindsight he probably should have taken himself out of the Olympics to rest his body as he clearly wasn't ready to play over the summer or the first half of the season.

He probably got more rest going away with the Olympic team than he would have staying here.

I would love for someone to track the competitive minutes these guys play over the summer. From international tournament to games at Rucker Park and the Drew League to even a "casual" 1 v 1 with a player who has the same agent. We just saw SGA play 23 playoff games totaling over 850 minutes over a two month period and be absolutely exhausted. Some of these guys are playing 40,50 games and pushing well over 1000 minutes of competitive ball over the summer. I am not saying that summer minutes are equal to NBA playoff minutes in any way. However those are still competitive basketball minutes on top of whatever they are doing with trainers during that time. It is only later on in their careers do they begin to rest their bodies intentionally.

Which would still be less than the regular season minutes played leader for most of 2-3 decades.

NBA players are saved from being the softest major pro athletes only by the existence of MLB starting pitchers.

edit for clarity: that's a general observation about the "load management" culture of the NBA, _NOT_ anything about Haliburton specifically. Hell, his comment about "I'd do it again" elevates him at least a full notch toward respectability afaic. So no, my comment wasn't about him.

Pace is up so much that I don't think it would have mattered. Saw someone mention that the average started runs 200 more miles in a season than a player did just 10 years ago.

Your only solutions would be reducing the number of games (which would be good in general for a number of reasons) or changing rules to slow the pace of play. I'd also move the first round back to 5 games since they're mostly blowouts and the only reason they moved it to 7 was to get an extra game or two out of Jordan with the Wizards if he made the playoffs.

I think you have valid points but I’m unsure how this relates to Haliburton finishing the season last year hurt and then playing in the Olympics instead of resting and thus starting the NBA season hurt. It’s entirely possible I’m missing something simple here but I stand by my point that if he had taken the off-season off he probably would have, bare minimum, been less hurt to start the season. If you will recall he finished the prior season not playing in the Eastern Conference Finals against Boston and then nursed that injury all the way to late December ‘24 / early January ‘25.

Does AAU play into this at all? Admittedly, I am pretty ignorant about how it works but as I understand it, kids playing AAU are constantly in games weekend after weekend after weekend. That has to take its toll at a certain point. It made me wonder if there are examples international players who have suffered Achilles injuries, especially at a young-ish age, and no one comes to mind. But here we have Haliburton, Dame, Tatum, Durant, and Klay go down with this injury.

There's always the correlation/causation issue to sort through, but I've wondered if AAU has to play some part in what seems to be a trend.

It could play a role but it wasn't like he played a ton for the Olympic team. Played 15 minutes in the warmup games and only played in 3 Olympic games averaging just 8 minutes.

I think it's just a matter of the game requiring a high level of athleticism at intensities we haven't seen before. Just watching clips from today vs 30 years ago is staggering. Defenses are flying around and rotating. You really can't hide anyone anymore.

It might just be like what we have with baseball and football. If you need guys to throw 98, elbows are going to be blown out. If you need a 250 pound guy to run a 4.4 40, knees are going to be blown out. These ligaments and tendons just weren't built for this.

Another thing with the Haliburton injury is that it likely doesn't happen without these unique circumstances. He's not going out and playing with a strained calf in a regular season game. He likely knew there was a considerable chance of tearing his achilles but you don't get a lot of chances to win an NBA title.

It was just a freak situation and injury. I’m a Pacers fan and I don’t regret it. He had to play in game 7. He knows it, the fans know it, the organization knows it. It just really is what it is.

It's that last bit that started me wondering: anybody know off-hand what the most 1st round picks any team has actually used in one season is? (I mean that they kept, not draft-and-trade-immediately stuff)

The Steph Curry draft I think the Timberwolves had 4 picks in the 1st round. But I believe they traded Ty Lawson right away for a future 1st. Can't think of anyone else in memory who had 4 unless we go real far back.

They drafted 4 guards in a round that produced Harden, Curry, DeRozan, Teague and Holiday, and somehow managed to end up with none of them. Quite a feat.

The best one they drafted (Lawson) was also the one they traded. What an incredible fuckup.

How many NFL players are playing NFL-level games during the offseason? I missed all the times that Tom Brady went and played tackle football along with other NFL and future NFL players in the off season.

Load management during the season is a separate conversation from the one I spoke about and not necessarily one I believe in if the purpose is to prevent injuries. I do think NBA players should take some time during their OFF season to rest and recover from a hard season before jumping into their off season training and should limit the NBA level games that they play during the off season as well.

This is from one of the articles below.


Even these so-so players/teams took some time off in the good ol days.



I don't think there is any doubt at this point.


'These kids are ticking time bombs' -- The threat of youth basketball - ESPN

Under the knife -- Exposing America's youth basketball crisis - ESPN

I'm pretty sure this is the first time I've ever actually seen Shams Charania, and man, he's terrible on camera.

Can anyone explain WTF Portland is doing with their roster?

Everybdrsft I feel like I know less and less players in it. Never even heard of the guy the Bulls drafted.

Danny Wolf is another guy I like, for where he was picked. Brooklyn is building a roster around size, passing, and shooting ability.

This draft is a microcosm of bad organizations. New Orleans takes Derik Queen, a guy with conditioning, effort, and shooting concerns to play next to Zion Williamson, a guy with conditioning, effort, and shooting concerns.

Portland drafts a center that absolutely no one had going in the first round. At 16. To add to their collection of centers: Ayton, Robert Williams, and last years pick Donovan Clingan.

Chinese Jokic!

[quote=miami_fan;3465333]



Even these so-so players/teams took some time off in the good ol days. [quote]

They were also much closer to finished products that today's generation of massively paid "stars" that have multiple major holes in their game.

Ayton's contract expires at the end of next season, so Blazers will try to move him eventually. Rob Williams is perpetually hurt. Yang is a project center and drafting him at #16 was definitely a reach.

Nets were dumb to not consolidate their picks to move up in the draft. And they wasted their 8th pick on that BYU Russian player who wasn't going top 10.

They should've thrown 4 first picks and something else to Utah for the 5th pick once Kon was off the board to get Ace.

Maybe they decided he was too much of an arrogant prick to be worth the trouble.

For me, the theme of the draft so far has been teams beginning to adjust to the new salary structure realities while also trying to copycat the blueprints of the Thunder and Pacers.

Outside of a Wembanyama or a Flagg, Teamsare drafting players who can either be pieces of a championship contender or someone you can move on in pursuit of a piece of a championship contender. All while trying not to run afoul of the aprons. Maybe you find your Chet Holmgren at #2 or your Jokic in the second. Maybe you have to use the flexibility of your roster to trade for a SGA or a Haliburton, to offload a high draft pick who is not living up to what you want from him (Jalen Green) to get another piece. The days of compounding a draft mistake by saddling the team with a albatross of a max deal for a okay player are over IMO.

I'm almost in shock: someone on ESPN's payroll actually talking sense

Wetzel: Please don't expand NCAA basketball tournaments - ESPN

Reminds me of this Club World Cup stuff that's I've heard is going on right now (in the US, even!). Who is this for, other than the people who run the sport to sell more TV content?

I'm still salty a.f. about the stupid mid-season invented competitions bullshit after the Panthers lost Tkachuk down the stretch.

Ranks up there with the dumbest fucking shit ever afaic.

It's a slap in the face of the core fans, who really ought to push back with their wallets. I mean, if the ACTUAL SEASON isn't important enough to have priority over some madeup bullshit, then why should I think it's important enough to spend money on?

edit to add: Once the Mets lost Diaz in absurd fashion at the happy horseshit baseball thing, that should have been glaring evidence how fucking bad an idea this sort of stuff is.

What's your take on NFL players in an Olympic flag football competition? Ha!

JFC, there's so much wrong with that sentence even existing that deciding where to begin unloading on such mindnumbing fuckery is enough to cause a headache all its own.

I will enjoy it but I will also pray no one from the Bears participates.

1. The people who run the media companies who want to buy more sports content in lieu of waiting for someone to give them something creative to put on.

2. The athletes who will benefit from the exposure that comes with being on TV more.

3. The sports fans who will go from hating it to just throwing it on in the background to gambling/playing fantasy version of the sport in a short period of time.

From what I've read, approximately $1B will go to participating clubs through both prize and participation money. FIFA have made a big deal that none of the rest (which could be as high as another $1B) will go to FIFA itself, but mainly to "solidarity payments" to non-participating clubs.

And there's the rub. FIFA leadership will distribute to clubs in federations as a way to buy influence and votes going forward.

It's 0% about improving the game or fans' experience of the game. It's 100% about retaining control over the distribution of future revenues.

Secondarily, it's another battle in the war with mainly UEFA to control football-related revenue.

The Feds are investigating Malik Beasley for point shaving and other gambling related crimes.

Look, he's a 28 year old who's only made $60 million. Who wouldn't take that risk for a couple hundred thousand more.

Wasn't that billion just Saudi money too? They massively overpaid for the rights to the event through their weird TV network very few people even have.

My theory on these stories is it is less about the player and more about their friends. If you find out someone is going to be on a minute restriction or unlikely to play much in advance, you can clean up on player prop bets. Just text a buddy and tell them.

I would hope he's not dumb enough to just be doing this on his own.

EA SPORTS
@EASPORTS
·
45m
Bring the Madness. Let’s run it back. #CBB #ItsInTheGame

Well that's a positive development even though EA doesn't have a great track record with basketball games of late.

I have not seen any reports involving point shaving. If he is involved in that or made prop bets himself, he is cooked for sure.

The game in question is from last season when the Bucks who Beasley played for at the time faced the Blazers. Here is the exact terminology from an ESPN article.


If my less than basic understanding is correct, then the bettors thought he would definitely record more than 2.5 rebounds so they bet the over, right?

If that is correct, I am a bit confused as to what the issue is. Beasley averaged 3.7 rebounds for the entire season and played in 79 games. He is capable of getting six rebounds in a game. In fact, he got six rebounds in a game against the Blazers earlier that year. If I were inclined to do so, that seems like a reasonable bet to make.

Is the issue simply that way too many people were inclined to place prop bets on Beasley's rebounding on that night? Are they accusing him of playing extra hard and doing too much to make sure he went over 2.5 rebounds? If he was running away from the basketball to avoid getting rebounds to ensure the under won, I understand the problem with that. Explain it to me like a toddler.

This is what I want but it’s being made by the wrong company. Hopefully EA proves me wrong but their basketball games were so bad they stopped making them.

The Hawks are having a really good off season. Kind of scary. I'm expecting a really bad move any time now.

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Michael Porter Jr to the Nets for Cam Johnson and a 1st. Porter might average 25 shots a game with them.