2024 NFL Offseason, Free Agency, and Draft Talk

[Jstraub]

I agree about the injury history. But nonetheless, dont agree its a bad pick. See the Green Bay Packers for multiple examples of why its not.

[Jstraub]

One of my biggest pet peeves about media and most fans is the concept of "mentoring" among these professional athletes, especially in football. As Torry Holt said on live TV when the rams drafted a WR, "I'll mentor his ass right to the bench".

Its even more surprising when people are shocked to hear athletes response when asked about their potential successor was just drafted. Of course they are pissed about it. shocking.

[miami_fan]

I wonder if Cousins is more upset that they drafted his replacement with the #7 pick or didn't use that pick to improve the team he'll (presumably) be QBing for a couple years. Like, he's in "win now" mode and they just invested in the post-Cousins era with an asset they could have used for more immediate needs. I feel like Cousins is probably more embarrassed about the situation than anything else. But he is 35 coming off an Achilles, so...

I would think it is more the latter. I am also making the assumption he is another one of those veteran qbs who has no interest in helping the rookie take his job. Edward brought up the mentoring piece. This feels like it will be more of the reported Aaron Rodgers/Jordan Love dynamic than say the reported Alex Smith/Patrick Mahomes dynamic. Obviously Mahomes has become Mahomes and Love seems to have turned out ok so it may not matter all that much. But I can see Cousins getting a bit agitated with the inevitable questions about his relationship with the rookie.

[GrantDawg]

I agree about the injury history. But nonetheless, dont agree its a bad pick. See the Green Bay Packers for multiple examples of why its not.
They spent pick 20 on Love. Pick 24 on Rodgers. If this had been a late first round pick or an early second round, I wouldn't hate it as much. A top ten pick is supposed to contribute immediately. They are supposed to be an immediate upgrade, not the third string guy you hope never plays.

[GrantDawg]

dola: Just to add, on a team with as many holes as the Falcons, spending a premier pick on someone you hope doesn't play in 2-4 years is just not smart. The only way this pick ends up being smart is if Cousin has a seriuos injury, but then signing him was a major mistake.

[JPhillips]

If the plan holds, Penix will be 26 or 27 when he starts his first full season.

[weegeebored]

I find it funny that the players watching from home look all surprised when they get called on the phone and drafted...like did no one told them they were in the draft? ...hahaTo me it's more ridiculous to see the NFL draft room people hug and shake hands after the pick is called. Why? You made the pick so it wasn't a surprise that that player's name was called. And it wasn't a lottery. It's also not like the player is going to say "Nope. I ain't goin' there" and the team execs are relieved. The exuberance just seems weird to me.

[flere-imsaho]

Looks like the old Bears front office migrated to Atlanta.

[cuervo72]

One of my biggest pet peeves about media and most fans is the concept of "mentoring" among these professional athletes, especially in football. As Torry Holt said on live TV when the rams drafted a WR, "I'll mentor his ass right to the bench".

Its even more surprising when people are shocked to hear athletes response when asked about their potential successor was just drafted. Of course they are pissed about it. shocking.

No kidding. I mean we have mentors on teams - they're called coaches.

[larrymcg421]

Packers are better now because of the Love pick, but they made the conference championship that year. Would an immediate upgrade have made the difference and got them another championship?

[QuikSand]

Yes, occasionally the value of a draft pick is getting a guy you never want to let go. Fine. Maybe if Penix turns into that guy, this won't look that bad in the longish run... like Aaron Rodgers, more or less.

But it's a salary cap league. A huge part of the value of early draft picks is to get plus contributors for far less than market price under the cap. The Packers, with Jordan Love, were paying him (likely) more than the market rate for a QB2 while he sat and waited - they missed out on the value portion of draft value, and now they face paying him market rate for his actual service.

Let's say that Cousins plays two full seasons and then the Falcons arrange a costly separation. Then they get Penix for 2 seasons plus an extension year. The chances of that usage providing much cap-related value are just not very high.

And that's before you weigh in the opportunity cost of adding, say, an impact pass rusher (for 4-5 years cheap under the cap) to a team supposedly in go-for-it-now mode. The math is pretty compelling here, even acknowledging that football QB is a uniquely valuable/critical position.

[GrantDawg]

My evaluation of the three older quarterbacks before the draft was that they all were great college quarterback mostly because they benefited for the extra time they had to develop. By the end of their college career, they were men playing among boys. The three (Daniels, Penix and Nix) have pretty much developed into what they are and probably have very little growth left. Habits at this point have set in and are going to be much harder to change. Daniels is the most talented of the three, and I think he is going to be a solid starter in the NFL. His legs put him a bit over the top. Maybe not MVP level, but solid. Penix is an average starter. Serviceable, but nothing exciting. His injury history also suggests he might not stay on the field at the next level. Nix is a below average starter. He is going to look much more like Auburn Nix than Oregeon Nix in the NFL.
Of course, I could be wrong, and at least for Penix, I hope I am. But reaching for an older and often injured player to sit for two years or more just looks dumb.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[miami_fan]

One of my biggest pet peeves about media and most fans is the concept of "mentoring" among these professional athletes, especially in football. As Torry Holt said on live TV when the rams drafted a WR, "I'll mentor his ass right to the bench".

Its even more surprising when people are shocked to hear athletes response when asked about their potential successor was just drafted. Of course they are pissed about it. shocking.

And yet whenever a player goes into the Hall of Fame, we see a bunch of active players talk about how that player mentored them when they first came into the league. I mentioned Alex Smith with Patrick Mahomes. Reggie Wayne (who should be a HOFer btw) talks about how much Marvin Harrison taught him when he came into the league. Ed Reed and Champ Bailey used to bring the DBs to their houses every week of the season to teach the DBs how to watch film the way they did. Somehow, all those mentors were still able to maintain their spots on the team and have ok careers before they lost their jobs to players they mentored.

I get it if we were talking about the Drew Brees/Phillip Rivers situation in San Diego. Bress was barely out of his rookie contract facing a highly rated rookie who was actually older than him coming in. I know pro athletes are ultra competitive. They have every right to be insecure as they know that teams will cut their asses in a hot second if the team can find a cheaper alternative at their position. Maybe holding a couple of veteran tricks up their shoulder pads will be the difference between keeping the job or losing it. Finally no player HAS to be a mentor to anyone especially one who could be there to take his job.

I just think there is a difference between being competitive and wanting to show that you are the better option versus intentionally abdicating the role of being the young player's "vet" by not giving advice and tricks of the trade that will help the player and eventually the team because of your insecurity especially if you are claiming to be a leader on the team and you do so for teammates who don't play your position. I don't think Aaron Rodgers not mentoring Jordan Love gave Rodgers an advantage in the starting QB competition in Green Bay and kept Love on the bench. Rodgers was the starter because he was better than Love. Alex Smith did not lose his job with the Chiefs because he served as a mentor for Patrick Mahomes and used those tricks against Smith. To me, it is just too normal to hear about veteran players taking young players who plays the same position under their wings and teaching them the ropes even though the young player will eventually take the vet's job hopefully using that passed on knowledge to do so for it not to be weird when it does not happen. Maybe the QB position is just different.

[Lathum]

If I am Cousins and see Odunze on the board and instead my team takes my replacement I would be hella pissed.

[albionmoonlight]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">I'm hearing Spencer Rattler is very much in play for Atlanta with the 43rd overall pick tonight as the team plans for the post-Penix era.</p>&mdash; Andy Behrens (@andybehrens) <a href="https://twitter.com/andybehrens/status/1783888935032098957?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 26, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
:lol:

[GrantDawg]

If I am Cousins and see Odunze on the board and instead my team takes my replacement I would be hella pissed.
The knock on Odzune to the Falcons is they already have him in Drake London. They need a wr2, but they need him to be more an explosive speedster to convert to the Rams style offense. I do wonder if Nabers had been available, if that would have changed things. I really don't think so, because I believe they might have been set on this stupid plan.

[CrimsonFox]

That was definitely a fun draft night. Love the trade action. Now I get it.

Thing I find odd is that some teams have acted like this draft is in a vacuum. But there have been drafts every year and continue to be. I mean you don't HAVE to have a QB this year, you can wait til next or whatever. Teams prob have qbs and things from past drafts. I'm delving into other drafts and wow last year's draft didn't have much qb action at all in the first round you guys are right.

I wonder if the falcons end up trading Penix for like a big stud they need.

[GrantDawg]

Mina is just right all the way around:
<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Mina Kimes' takedown of the Falcons' selection of Michael Penix Jr: &quot;I find the justification to be somewhat logically incoherent... if you think you're going to be good, which is why you pay Kirk Cousins $100 million guaranteed, you're doing your team a disservice by not making… <a href="https://t.co/okXqRbBXmR">https://t.co/okXqRbBXmR</a> <a href="https://t.co/h9J55MCYx3">pic.twitter.com/h9J55MCYx3</a></p>&mdash; Awful Announcing (@awfulannouncing) <a href="https://twitter.com/awfulannouncing/status/1783877533559062701?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 26, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[RainMaker]

Looks like the old Bears front office migrated to Atlanta.

They dd! Ryan Pace works for the Falcons.

[Ksyrup]

Apparently Mina Kimes hasn't watched ESPN talk shows for the past 25 years.

[CrimsonFox]

FOntenot trying to explain himself to the owner lol

https://twitter.com/CodyChaffins/status/1783664991247241673?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1783664991247241673%7Ctwgr%5Eaf6d2ea9c5419d81b0484709602d2ac521945633%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fnypost.com%2F2024%2F04%2F26%2Fsports%2Ffalcons-nfl-draft-war-room-video-goes-viral-after-michael-penix-jr-pick%2F

[flere-imsaho]

They dd! Ryan Pace works for the Falcons.

See, I didn't even know that. That is too funny! :)

[Ghost Econ]

Can Alex Anthropolous run 2 Atlanta teams next year?

[GrantDawg]

Can Alex Anthropolous run 2 Atlanta teams next year?
He follows the Falcons closely. I have heard him break things down on the radio, and the host did ask if he would be willing to run both teams.

[RainMaker]

This is such an insane response too. Sit a QB for 4-5 years? Their rookie deal is only 4 years plus a very large option year.


<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Full quote : &quot;If you believe in a quarterback, you have to take him. And if he sits for four or five years, that's a great problem to have because we're doing so well at that position. So, it's as simple as, if you see a guy you believe in at that position, you have to take him.&quot;</p>&mdash; Marc Raimondi (@marcraimondi) <a href="https://twitter.com/marcraimondi/status/1783715783643725921?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">April 26, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

Like even if you loved Penix, you're still paying like $7 million for a backup. It's just an insane use of cap space and a high pick.

I'd have gone with Oduzne just so Cousins has more weapons. But they could have also traded back and grabbed one of the many good defenders that went in the middle of the round. Just baffled by the move.

[CrimsonFox]

https://images2.minutemediacdn.com/image/upload/c_crop,w_615,h_615,x_8,y_0/v1714147476/images/voltaxMediaLibrary/mmsport/si-temp/01hwdjdfm8wce0kw7y8b.png

Minn Head Coach O Connell's reaction when the GM tells him he just traded up to get Turner.

[Bobble]

The 4-5 years has to be hyperbole. You have to really love the prospect to say that you're going to (likely) sit him for two years and then only have him on the rookie deal for another 3 years at age 26-27, all the while being such a good team that you couldn't possibly draft anyone close to him. This better be a CJ Stroud kinda guy.

[Passacaglia]

I hinted at this in another thread, but does anyone know why Darius Robinson's mom was so mad in the interview after he was drafted? Seems like the only source of good drama in a draft where everyone was a great human.

[RainMaker]

I hinted at this in another thread, but does anyone know why Darius Robinson's mom was so mad in the interview after he was drafted? Seems like the only source of good drama in a draft where everyone was a great human.

I'm glad someone else noticed this too! She looked irate. I couldn't tell if it was an issue with the grandmother talking a lot or she just didn't want to be there.

[sovereignstar v2]

mother-in-law vibes, yeah

[Carman Bulldog]

Everyone: Playing first year quarterbacks is a disservice to the player and teams should give them time to develop on the bench for a year to two without rushing them into games.

Also everyone: What is Atlanta doing drafting a quarterback who they plan on sitting for a few years?

Count me among those who don't hate the process. There were people that were critical of the Chiefs in 2017 when they gave up assets to move up and take their quarterback of the future when they already had a Pro Bowl quarterback on their roster. People were saying they should have improved the defense instead. How did that work out?

Unfortunately, there is really only one way to build a winning team in today's NFL and that's hitting on a superstar quarterback. Every QB that a team drafts is basically like a lottery ticket and you need to hit on one of these tickets if you want to be competitive year after year with a shot at winning Super Bowls. While the addition of Cousins means the Falcons should be a playoff team over the next few years, I don't think anyone sees him as a superstar quarterback.

So if a team really believes they have found their future superstar quarterback, then I don't think there is anything wrong with taking him in that spot, even if you already just signed another guy (who happens to be 36 years old coming off a torn Achilles) for the next few years. Whether Penix is that guy is another question altogether.

SI.com (https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/04/27/nfl-draft-2017-first-round-grades): Grade B+. "The Chiefs paid a huge price for a developmental quarterback, choosing Mahomes over Deshaun Watson. This is the type of move that can make or break a front office."

SB Nation (https://www.sbnation.com/nfl-mock-draft/2017/4/27/15461926/nfl-draft-grades-2017-analysis-winners-losers): Grade D. "The Chiefs gave up pick Nos. 27, 91 and a 2018 first-round pick to take a backup quarterback. At least for a season, that’s what this pick is in reality. While this move helps Kansas City in the future, what does it do immediately in 2017 and 2018? It doesn’t give them a top cornerback opposite Marcus Peters. It doesn’t give them a linebacker they need. It gives them a developmental player. Look, I like Mahomes as a person and prospect. I just don’t like the value at all."

Bleacher Report (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706180-nfl-draft-2017-round-1-grades-for-every-pick): Grade C. "My issue is that the Chiefs have been in playoff also-ran mode for years. They could have traded up and upgraded their defense to get over the top in 2017. Reid's Eagles tended to get stuck in 10- 11-win ruts. They could swap out quarterbacks and remain in the same rut, because they still have too many needs in other areas."

ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2017/insider/story/_/id/18974431/2017-nfl-draft-grades-mel-kiper-grades-draft-class-all-32-teams#KC): Grade C+ (for the full draft). "...Giving up a third-round pick and next year's first to move up 17 spots was a ton for a team with immediate needs elsewhere and some defenders getting up there in age."

Chatsports (https://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/2017-nfl-draft-grades-winners-and-losers-first-round-33221): Grade C-. "Chiefs had to move up to get Mahomes, but is he truly worth it? They gave up a future first, which could come back to bite them. The upside is there with Mahomes and it might pay off. If it does, it's an easy A. If not, it's an F. I'll split the difference for the time being."

USA Today (https://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/2017-nfl-draft-grades-picks-analysis-results): Grade C-. "Calling Mahomes a project is a major understatement. He’s nowhere near ready to play in the NFL. And, honestly, he may never be. Between his inconsistent accuracy due to poor mechanics, his tendency to bail from clean pockets and his lack of field vision, he’s going to leave as many big plays on the field as he creates. This was a risky pick."

[CrimsonFox]

have you ever seen a grandmother that wasn't bitching about something?

[CrimsonFox]

Have you guys ever seen someone that was unhappy or even pissed at the team that drafted them? Like a caught on camera reaction?

I don't think it's happened this year yet

[NobodyHere]

Have you guys ever seen someone that was unhappy or even pissed at the team that drafted them? Like a caught on camera reaction?

https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/0e78b9035ae4da11af9f0014c2589dfb/NFL-DRAFT-CHARGERS/960x0.jpg?format=jpg&width=960

[JPhillips]

WTF are the Falcons doing?

[JonInMiddleGA]

WTF are the Falcons doing?

Falcon'ing.

[RainMaker]

Don't they need an EDGE pretty bad? I thought their defensive tackles were pretty good but maybe they lost someone.

[CrimsonFox]

Finally a rb is drafted <3

[B & B]

Fellow Lions fans, lets trade down or just take Cooper Beebe and call it done.

Was hoping for Frazier but he is a Steeler.

[CrimsonFox]

Any team drafting someone named kool-aid should be embarrassed

[CrimsonFox]

Why are OTs such a heavy draft take and not OG .

[Danny]

Why are OTs such a heavy draft take and not OG .


Partly, options. A lot of the best lineman lften go to tackle in college and in the pros if they dont work out at tackle can kick in to guard and sometimes be really good. A clear guard has no where to go if they fail there.

[CrimsonFox]

So what's the difference between the two. They are both line. Why is ot harder than og

[RainMaker]

Everyone: Playing first year quarterbacks is a disservice to the player and teams should give them time to develop on the bench for a year to two without rushing them into games.

Also everyone: What is Atlanta doing drafting a quarterback who they plan on sitting for a few years?

Count me among those who don't hate the process. There were people that were critical of the Chiefs in 2017 when they gave up assets to move up and take their quarterback of the future when they already had a Pro Bowl quarterback on their roster. People were saying they should have improved the defense instead. How did that work out?

Unfortunately, there is really only one way to build a winning team in today's NFL and that's hitting on a superstar quarterback. Every QB that a team drafts is basically like a lottery ticket and you need to hit on one of these tickets if you want to be competitive year after year with a shot at winning Super Bowls. While the addition of Cousins means the Falcons should be a playoff team over the next few years, I don't think anyone sees him as a superstar quarterback.

So if a team really believes they have found their future superstar quarterback, then I don't think there is anything wrong with taking him in that spot, even if you already just signed another guy (who happens to be 36 years old coming off a torn Achilles) for the next few years. Whether Penix is that guy is another question altogether.

Seems like a move you make with a QB who has 1-2 years left and you're drafting their replacement. But Cousins just signed a 4 year deal with tons in guaranteed money. The team is in win now mode. Just seems like a really bad use of resources.

[Ksyrup]

The Athletic also gave the Falcons a D+ for their early 2nd round choice. I don't know if that was a universal feeling, but I think I know who will be listed among the post-draft losers in Monday's articles.

[GrantDawg]

The Athletic also gave the Falcons a D+ for their early 2nd round choice. I don't know if that was a universal feeling, but I think I know who will be listed among the post-draft losers in Monday's articles.
I have seen a "B+" for it. I just don't understand why they traded up to get a guy that was projecting in the third round, but then who knows what the team boards are like. They must have been convinced someone was going to take him and jumped up. Overall, the guy sounds like a good pick. Was he worth giving up another third rounder for? IDK. He does seem like a good prospect, though.

[JPhillips]

I just don't understand the trade picks and win now mentality combined with the get a future QB mentality. They could have kept their pick and gotten Byron Murphy if they were set on a DT.

[Lathum]

Falcons finally got one right with Bralen Trice. He's going to be their best player taken in this draft. Has Max Crosby vibes.

[sovereignstar v2]

Was shocked to find out he played for UW ;)

[Thomkal]

I have seen a "B+" for it. I just don't understand why they traded up to get a guy that was projecting in the third round, but then who knows what the team boards are like. They must have been convinced someone was going to take him and jumped up. Overall, the guy sounds like a good pick. Was he worth giving up another third rounder for? IDK. He does seem like a good prospect, though.


As they made the trade with the Cardinals (i think), I fully support this trade. :)

[Carman Bulldog]

Seems like a move you make with a QB who has 1-2 years left and you're drafting their replacement. But Cousins just signed a 4 year deal with tons in guaranteed money. The team is in win now mode. Just seems like a really bad use of resources.

But it's really structured as a two year deal, with all the guaranteed money up front. And like I said, Cousins is a 36 year-old (by start of season) quarterback coming off Achilles surgery. He's slated to be the third oldest starting QB this season. I don't think you plan on him being your starter come 2026. And they don't plan on drafting this high again in the next two years. So I don't hate the process.

[Lathum]

But it's really structured as a two year deal, with all the guaranteed money up front. And like I said, Cousins is a 36 year-old (by start of season) quarterback coming off Achilles surgery. He's slated to be the third oldest starting QB this season. I don't think you plan on him being your starter come 2026. And they don't plan on drafting this high again in the next two years. So I don't hate the process.

The problem is you pay a dude 100 mil guaranteed you are in win now mode. Instead of drafting a piece that can help him win now you take his replacement. It makes zero sense.

[dubb93]

The problem is you pay a dude 100 mil guaranteed you are in win now mode. Instead of drafting a piece that can help him win now you take his replacement. It makes zero sense.

I’d agree with most of this but the REAL problem is that there was a legit top tier WR prospect sitting there and the Falcons passed on that and instead will trot out an island of misfit toys at WR2 and WR3 this season. If Odunze isn’t available I have less issues with the move.

[Lathum]

If I am Cousins and see Odunze on the board and instead my team takes my replacement I would be hella pissed.

I’d agree with most of this but the REAL problem is that there was a legit top tier WR prospect sitting there and the Falcons passed on that and instead will trot out an island of misfit toys at WR2 and WR3 this season. If Odunze isn’t available I have less issues with the move.

Said this yesterday...

[GrantDawg]

I just don't understand the trade picks and win now mentality combined with the get a future QB mentality. They could have kept their pick and gotten Byron Murphy if they were set on a DT.
If they were going to pick a DL in the first round, it would have been Latu or Turner. They weren't set on DT, they were set on Penix. It is clear the only thing that might have moved them off Penix is if maybe another of the top three QB's were avaible. In the second round, they obviously had Orhorhoro as best avaible, mostly because he looks like a Grady Jarrett style line up anywhere on the line guy.

[GrantDawg]

Said this yesterday...
And I said yesterday, Odunze probably wasn't high on their list because he was too much like what they already have from the old regime, and they need more speedsters.

[GrantDawg]

But it's really structured as a two year deal, with all the guaranteed money up front. And like I said, Cousins is a 36 year-old (by start of season) quarterback coming off Achilles surgery. He's slated to be the third oldest starting QB this season. I don't think you plan on him being your starter come 2026. And they don't plan on drafting this high again in the next two years. So I don't hate the process.
I agree it is a two year deal, but if they were trying to go the "Love" route, they could have used a lower first round pick next year after a good playoff run this year for a QB to sit until Cousins is ready to leave/retire. They instead are claiming to be "all in" to win while burning a high-value pick on player you are hoping to not see the field in the next two to three years. A player that is a guy who should be starting now, not a 21 year old that could benefit from some growth like Love was.

In was a bad move no matter how you color it, unless they somehow win the Super Bowl in the next two years. That wasn't that likely to begin with, but this made it even less likely.

[Atocep]

Tarcone instantly becomes a Bears fan.

[QuikSand]

Dolphins trade up to select... a very fast running back. LOL

[weegeebored]

This draft may work out for the Bears, but I am still not a fan of Poles. A project OT in the 3rd and a punter in the 4th? Yeah, Gill sucks but I don't understand the pick. There will be UDFA punters available.

[Atocep]

I like the tackle pick. They don't really need a starter next year so getting a high ceiling guy that can sit makes sense. There's honestly not a lot in this draft after the 2nd/3rd. This is a very shallow draft.

The punter pick is meh. It's the range some were projecting him to go in and, as you said, Gill sucks. I guess in a shallow draft you're at least getting someone that will contribute this season.

[weegeebored]

I find it difficult to believe that there isn't a value player drafted after the Bears took the punter. It's not as if other teams are throwing up their hands in disgust at the lack of later round talent and just randomly choosing a guy. I would even argue that a punter has less value for the Bears now as the offense should be much better and will need to rely less on their punter. It seems that for every good move that Poles makes he has a corresponding head scratcher.

[weegeebored]

The Bears trade back into the draft to nab Kansas edge rusher Austin Booker. Gave up a 2025 fourth. I feel much better now.

[CrimsonFox]

As they made the trade with the Cardinals (i think), I fully support this trade. :)

hahaha nice

[CrimsonFox]

wait so they're just picking now? willy nilly? free?

everytime I think I'm caught up, I then don't understand what's going on

[CrimsonFox]

so what all this end of round compensatory garbage and special picks?

[CrimsonFox]

SPENCER RATTLER IS A SAINT!

[Ksyrup]

It's been deleted, but the Raiders actually posted a "speed kills" tweet for some dude they drafted.

[molson]

wait so they're just picking now? willy nilly? free?

everytime I think I'm caught up, I then don't understand what's going on

Pay attention, someone might pick you or I and then we have to start packing up the station wagon.

[AlexB]

Dolphins trade up to select... a very fast running back. LOL

I don’t follow college football so pretty much all of these names are new to me, but based on numbers, Dolphins seem to have beaten the curve in the draft?

They have picked 5 of the top 100 prospects on NFL.com in the first 184 picks.

Whether they are the right positions is another argument, but they seem to have drafted well on the face of it?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Pay attention, someone might pick you or I and then we have to start packing up the station wagon.

"You're an Atlanta Falcon"

Given the way they've drafted, that feels like a real possibility lol

[CrimsonFox]

"You're an Atlanta Falcon"

Given the way they've drafted, that feels like a real possibility lol

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CrimsonFox]

I don’t follow college football so pretty much all of these names are new to me, but based on numbers, Dolphins seem to have beaten the curve in the draft?

They have picked 5 of the top 100 prospects on NFL.com in the first 184 picks.

Whether they are the right positions is another argument, but they seem to have drafted well on the face of it?

they just got a steal in round 6 with Malik Washington. How he slid so far I have no idea

[CrimsonFox]

geez....Tom Brady was a late 6th round pick....just wow

[miami_fan]

Everyone: Playing first year quarterbacks is a disservice to the player and teams should give them time to develop on the bench for a year to two without rushing them into games.

Also everyone: What is Atlanta doing drafting a quarterback who they plan on sitting for a few years?

Count me among those who don't hate the process. There were people that were critical of the Chiefs in 2017 when they gave up assets to move up and take their quarterback of the future when they already had a Pro Bowl quarterback on their roster. People were saying they should have improved the defense instead. How did that work out?

Unfortunately, there is really only one way to build a winning team in today's NFL and that's hitting on a superstar quarterback. Every QB that a team drafts is basically like a lottery ticket and you need to hit on one of these tickets if you want to be competitive year after year with a shot at winning Super Bowls. While the addition of Cousins means the Falcons should be a playoff team over the next few years, I don't think anyone sees him as a superstar quarterback.

So if a team really believes they have found their future superstar quarterback, then I don't think there is anything wrong with taking him in that spot, even if you already just signed another guy (who happens to be 36 years old coming off a torn Achilles) for the next few years. Whether Penix is that guy is another question altogether.

I don't agree with most of the ideological absolutes in your post. However, if those absolutes are indeed true then I don't see anything wrong with the process either.

[molson]

I don’t follow college football so pretty much all of these names are new to me, but based on numbers, Dolphins seem to have beaten the curve in the draft?

They have picked 5 of the top 100 prospects on NFL.com in the first 184 picks.

Whether they are the right positions is another argument, but they seem to have drafted well on the face of it?

The big NFL draft secret is, nobody has actually heard of any of these people (at least after the first round), they just compare what actually happens to ESPN mock drafts and NFL.com rankings. So basically a 10-year old could run a team's draft and score an A+ media evaluation ranking just by strictly following those.

I don't believe for a second that anyone has any clue which Big 10 offensive lineman will be better in the NFL. If it's your full time job for a few months on a team, maybe you can improve your odds some.

[Carman Bulldog]

In was a bad move no matter how you color it, unless they somehow win the Super Bowl in the next two years. That wasn't that likely to begin with, but this made it even less likely.

The Chiefs were coming off the third best record in the NFL and could have grabbed Marshawn Lattimore when they were in desperate need of a cornerback. Instead, they chose a developmental QB. Was picking Mahomes there a bad move? They didn't win the Super Bowl in either of the next two seasons and picking Mahomes over someone that could have helped right away certainly negatively impacted their immediate chances.

Let's be honest, the Falcons weren't going to be winning the Super Bowl the next two seasons even if they picked another player there. If Kirk Cousins were to win the Super Bowl, he would be the oldest starting QB to do it in the past 50 years not named Brady, Manning (who was awful that year) or Elway.

So if they are absolutely in love with a player and think they've found their franchise quarterback for the next 10 years, do they:

a. Despite having just signed a 36-year-old starting QB coming off Achilles surgery to a big money deal for the next two years, still pick who they believe is their future franchise QB and let him sit and learn for a year or two; or

b. Pass on the guy and then just pray that they find a guy who they fall equally in love with next year (a class that is supposed to be thin on elite QB talent), while (ideally for them) drafting in the mid-20's?

Also, what suggests the Falcons are "all in"? Just because they signed the highest profile FA QB for the next 2 years? Was this a Super Bowl team last year if only they had a better quarterback? Did they make any other signings indicating they are "all in"?

Basically, there should be two types of teams in the NFL. Those with their long-term franchise QB and those looking to find their long term franchise QB. If you are the latter and think you've found him, then you absolutely have to pick him.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Also, what suggests the Falcons are "all in"?

The owner, for one.

from one of the TV sports guys (who had talked to the 81 year old owner)
Falcons owner Arthur Blank wanted a succession plan to Kirk Cousins - They are win now mode and don't plan on drafting in the top-20 anytime soon

This is consistent with Blank's previous public comments.

It's also what makes the pick even more glaringly idiotic.

They either wasted a draft pick or they wasted $100m+ on Cousins.

Either way, there's nothing about the move that's a) rationally defensible or b) an indication that anyone in Atlanta has the slightest fucking clue what the hell they're doing

[CrimsonFox]

so how about that Canadian, eh?

[GrantDawg]

The Chiefs were coming off the third best record in the NFL and could have grabbed Marshawn Lattimore when they were in desperate need of a cornerback. Instead, they chose a developmental QB. Was picking Mahomes there a bad move? They didn't win the Super Bowl in either of the next two seasons and picking Mahomes over someone that could have helped right away certainly negatively impacted their immediate chances.
You answered your own question. It is the same as comparing what the Falcons did to what the Packers did. When you are already a top team, spending draft capital on the future makes sense. When you are a bad club trying to turn the corner, spending a top ten draft pick on someone you don't want to play for 2-4 years is idiotic.


Let's be honest, the Falcons weren't going to be winning the Super Bowl the next two seasons even if they picked another player there. If Kirk Cousins were to win the Super Bowl, he would be the oldest starting QB to do it in the past 50 years not named Brady, Manning (who was awful that year) or Elway.
So? Does that mnean it is impossible? Can't be because you just listed three guys who have done it. Something doesn't happen until it does. They didn't sign Cousins to a huge contract to lose.


So if they are absolutely in love with a player and think they've found their franchise quarterback for the next 10 years, do they:


But it is not for the "next ten years" because he will not play (hopefully) next year, or the next year, and if Cousins continues to do well the next.....
And then he might, maybe, be a decent quarterback. Or he might, maybe, be a complete bust. The chances of him being a bust are much higher than any other position the Falcons could have taken in that spot. And any other position they could have taken there would contribute to make this team better right now, not hopefully maybe someday. When you have been 7-10 for two years in a row and even worse before that you have to keep improving the team for now. Not maybe hopefully have something in the future.



The Chiefs were a good team that knew Smith wasn't planning on playing much longer. The Packers where a good team that drafted their succession plan on an older quarterback that ended up causing them all sorts of problems afterward. The Falcons are still trying to get to that good team. That's why they spent a huge chunk of money on Cousins to get them over the top. But then instead of helping him, they gave him a big middle finger and drafted his replacement before he took a snap. Stupid, moronic, idiotic move.

[CrimsonFox]

we'll see fontenot on the street soon.

[Edward64]

2 new Hogs in the NFL. Slim pickings.

Kicker to the Jags
OL to the Rams

[SirFozzie]

ESPN actually did a really good job breaking down why this is such a head scratcher


The Falcons made a massive mistake in the first round and have created a mess

The no-question most shocking selection of the first round was the Falcons' pick of quarterback Michael Penix Jr. at No. 8 overall. And it's not because eighth was a lot sooner than most projections had Penix going.

The reason this pick shocked the NFL was because, just six weeks earlier, the Falcons signed veteran quarterback Kirk Cousins to a four-year, $180 million contract that includes $100 million in guaranteed money. Dropping the proven Cousins into an offense equipped with young stars at wide receiver, tight end and running back felt like the move of a team intending to contend right away, which would lead a reasonable person to believe that team would use the eighth pick on a player (maybe an edge rusher?) who could help the 2024 roster.

Cousins' agent, Mike McCartney, made it clear Thursday night that Cousins was shocked and disappointed by the selection and didn't see it coming. Cousins is the kind of guy who likely will make the best of it, but it still feels like a sudden departure from what the Falcons' plan was six weeks ago. And I think it's fair for Cousins -- and frankly everyone else -- to feel like this could end up being a difficult situation for the Falcons' roster and coaching staff.

Verdict: NOT AN OVERREACTION

Let me be clear right away: The criticism has nothing to do with my, your or the Falcons' evaluation of Penix as a player and prospect. That is irrelevant to this discussion. Penix could turn out to be a star, and frankly, I hope he does. This is about the draft and the Falcons' apparent misunderstanding of its true under-discussed purpose.

In spite of all the time that teams, fans and media spend on scouting the draft, in the end, it is not about scouting. It's about value and resource allocation. In a salary cap league, teams that want to sign and keep their star players as they get more expensive absolutely must get significant contributions from drafted players while they're on their rookie contracts. This is the main reason the Chiefs have continued to win Super Bowls while dishing out huge contracts to Patrick Mahomes, Travis Kelce and Chris Jones. The Falcons have created a situation in which they cannot possibly get maximum value out of both Cousins' contract and Penix's rookie contract, though.

First off, their combined cash spent on Cousins and Penix in 2024 alone should come out to around $76.8 million when you factor in their respective signing bonuses and salaries. From there, the possible outcomes include the following:

Cousins plays well enough and wins enough to justify the contract the Falcons gave him in free agency. He starts every game in 2024 and 2025. By the end of the 2025 season, Atlanta has paid Cousins $90 million and Penix around $15 million. With only a $10 million 2026 roster bonus left on the guarantees, the Falcons could then release or trade the 37-year-old Cousins and incur a $25 million dead-money charge on their 2026 cap. Penix will be 26 without an NFL start, and the Falcons will get one season to evaluate him as a starter before deciding on his fifth-year option.

Cousins plays the entire 2024 season, but for whatever reason, the Falcons decide next spring that Penix is ready to start in 2025. They could keep Cousins as Penix's backup, but $27.5 million is a lot of money for a backup. Cutting Cousins at this point would result in a $65 million dead-money cap charge. Trading him would cause a $37.5 million dead-money hit. And Atlanta would have paid him $62.5 million for one season.

Cousins gets injured or struggles to come back from his Achilles injury and Penix is thrown into the starter's role after an offseason in which he didn't get starter's reps. This might not be a bad outcome, football-wise, if Penix is pro-ready as his résumé indicates. But if he were to succeed in this situation, it would put the Falcons in a very challenging spot in terms of what to do with Cousins and his contract.

Cousins struggles, leading the fan base (and perhaps the locker room) to want to see the high draft pick play. Whatever the coaching staff decides in this scenario is tough on both of these players (and perhaps, again, the locker room).

Penix could turn out to be great, but that's not the point. The Falcons mismanaged their resources. There's no way for them to get maximum value from both Cousins' deal and Penix's rookie deal. As a result, their roster won't be as good in the coming years as it could have been -- no matter how well or how much either one of them plays.

[GrantDawg]

Penix could turn out to be great, but that's not the point. The Falcons mismanaged their resources. There's no way for them to get maximum value from both Cousins' deal and Penix's rookie deal. As a result, their roster won't be as good in the coming years as it could have been -- no matter how well or how much either one of them plays.


This is it exactly. The Cousin signing is fine, or the Penix pick is fine. Both is nonsense.

[CrimsonFox]

Bottom Line: You just shelled out big bucks for a QB....now get him an offensive weapon he can use, a lineman to protect him, or a Defensive monster to get him the ball

THEN COusins has a better chance to be worth all that money you just gave him

[Edward64]

Who would have thought the Falcons would be the big talking point from the draft.

FWIW let’s come back in 2-3 years and see how Penix works out.

[CrimsonFox]

I'm already past reading about that...I'm on to things like
What happens to the rookies drafted now? What happens to those not drafted? Is it a freeforall? Will these draftees get cut? What happened to all the draftees from the last 5 years? Are they still on rosters?

There are articles for all of the above

[CrimsonFox]

Okay Bengals, I give up. Why would you draft 2 tight ends?

[Ksyrup]

Keon Coleman apparently did a comedy routine at his Bills press conference.

[albionmoonlight]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/700409915696480317/1234110408609108019/image0.jpg?ex=662f8a62&is=662e38e2&hm=bcc471af513fb945b99f1183e73b78a5081426229cba07079345e9af0a1e18dc&=&format=webp&width=492&height=602

[Swaggs]

I don’t know much about his personality or character, but I’ve always felt kind of bad for Rattler. I know there’s been some reports that he wasn’t a great teammate early on (and apparently was immature in a documentary about him during high school).

I followed him some as a B12 fan and he seemed as if he was the heir apparent to Kyler Murray and Jalen Hurts in Lincoln Riley’s offense, lost 2 games (both by one score) his first season going 9-2 during the Covid season, started 2021 as one of the faces of college football and started 6-0 without dominating, but got benched mid-season for not crushing people for what we now know was a generational talent in Caleb Williams. Oklahoma ended up losing two games that year anyway because their defense was uncommonly poor (by their standards), but Rattler’s 2020 season was arguably as good as Williams’ Heisman year (less yards passing and rushing, but higher passer rating, yards per attempt, and completion pct).

Just kind of wild how he lost his job (15-2 as a starter with pretty outstanding stats) and fell so far. I doubt he’ll ever be a starter, but hopefully has a decent career.

[CrimsonFox]

wow some of these teams went all out taking undrafted rookies. while others didn't seem to care. Looking at YOU atlanta. I mean since atl didn't get a ton of offensive help in the draft you'd think they would be all over it with free prospects.

[JonInMiddleGA]

wow some of these teams went all out taking undrafted rookies. while others didn't seem to care. Looking at YOU atlanta. I mean since atl didn't get a ton of offensive help in the draft you'd think they would be all over it with free prospects.

Not really unusual. Some teams are always ahead of others, sometimes it's a matter of negotiations (UDFAs can receive multiple offers to pick & choose from). Other times it's a matter of agreements being reached that just aren't announced as quickly as others.

[GrantDawg]

The Falcons don't have a lot of roster spots on the offensive side of the ball right now. They had a spending spree in the off-season on wide receivers, many of whom are 4-5th type starters. Lots of them special team specialist, that would be the type of guy you would be looking for in UDFA. Still, they have signed 2 WR. How many more exactly were you expecting?

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[CrimsonFox]

Not really unusual. Some teams are always ahead of others, sometimes it's a matter of negotiations (UDFAs can receive multiple offers to pick & choose from). Other times it's a matter of agreements being reached that just aren't announced as quickly as others.

huh...nice thanks

I was wondering how the UD people worked. Didn't know if they could go to multiple camps or what. So they get lots of offers and can choose? huh. Guess that means that everyone wants to go to popular teams and/or where they like

[JonInMiddleGA]

Guess that means that everyone wants to go to popular teams and/or where they like

Or where they think they might actually have a chance to make the roster.

[CrimsonFox]

So do any of you guys go to any rookie camps? I assume they sell tickets to it

[Swaggs]

I loved the Steelers draft. Looks like to OL starters in the 1st and 2nd and potential starters at WR and LB with the two 3rd rounders, without having to trade up. The pro is that the two linemen and the LB seem like they were great value, but all three had injury histories.

The unfortunate thing is that AFC North Rivals drafted very well, too. I thought the Bengals did really well in making their team more physical. Mims is going to be really good as a RT and I think those two DL that they got will be solid for years. And the Ravens always seem to have enough wisdom and depth to take BPA and backfill when they lose guys to free agency. They look like they got an immediate contributor in Wiggins and then four other guys that will probably sit and play special teams for a year or two and then be ready to be solid to above average starters down the road. At least the Browns are still paying for the Watson deal.

[JPhillips]

I saw one guy say the four best AFC drafts were Chiefs, Steelers, Ravens, Bengals.

The AFC North is just brutal.

[Passacaglia]

I'm starting to become more okay with the Penix pick, but I still can't get past the hubris of "we don't plan to be drafting in the top 20 anytime soon" -- okay, 2018 is the last time you haven't drafted in the top 20, and you've done it six years in a row since, so I'm not sure I understand the confidence here.

[Bobble]

I'm starting to become more okay with the Penix pick, but I still can't get past the hubris of "we don't plan to be drafting in the top 20 anytime soon" -- okay, 2018 is the last time you haven't drafted in the top 20, and you've done it six years in a row since, so I'm not sure I understand the confidence here.

As a Lions fan who has a lot of confidence in our front office (it feels weird just writing that), I'm trying to gage how I would feel if Brad and Dan did this. I still don't think I could get behind it. I didn't love it when the Lions took Hendon Hooker IN THE 3RD to do just about what the Falcons are doing here. Draft an older prospect QB to groom for the possible future. I get that Cousins is way older than Goff so that the Falcon's horizon is a lot closer but I still cannot see this as a smart use of resources.

[weegeebored]

Even if you believe the ATL spin stories about why they drafted Penix, how do you draft a guy with four known serious injuries? Is he magically going to become less injury-prone as he gets older? One or two injuries you might attribute to bad luck -- might. But four...that we know of? If a team wanted to take a flier on him in the 3rd or 4th round, ok. But at 1.8?? Makes.Zero.Sense.

[Swaggs]

I'm starting to become more okay with the Penix pick, but I still can't get past the hubris of "we don't plan to be drafting in the top 20 anytime soon" -- okay, 2018 is the last time you haven't drafted in the top 20, and you've done it six years in a row since, so I'm not sure I understand the confidence here.

Kind of funny, but I was looking up the history of #8 overall picks to see how they have fared over the years and the Falcons have actually had that pick for three straight years now (Penix, Bijan last year, and Drake London in 2022) and have had it 4 times in the past 10 years (Vic Beasley in 2015). Overall, they have picked pretty decently compared to some of the other #8s.

Statmuse List: https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/8th-overall-picks-nfl-draft

[Swaggs]

Steelers are apparently close to acquiring a “big time playmaker” that is supposedly a WR. The hope is that it may be Aiyuk or Debo from the 49ers, who both supposedly want paid, but I feel like the more likely option will be Tyler Boyd as a FA or Courtland Sutton from Denver, who seems crazy overpaid for his production. Really hoping it isn’t Sutton.

[Swaggs]

Sorry, it was a “significant playmaker.”

[Thomkal]

Steelers are apparently close to acquiring a “big time playmaker” that is supposedly a WR. The hope is that it may be Aiyuk or Debo from the 49ers, who both supposedly want paid, but I feel like the more likely option will be Tyler Boyd as a FA or Courtland Sutton from Denver, who seems crazy overpaid for his production. Really hoping it isn’t Sutton.


Niners did draft a WR...

[Passacaglia]

Even if you believe the ATL spin stories about why they drafted Penix, how do you draft a guy with four known serious injuries? Is he magically going to become less injury-prone as he gets older? One or two injuries you might attribute to bad luck -- might. But four...that we know of? If a team wanted to take a flier on him in the 3rd or 4th round, ok. But at 1.8?? Makes.Zero.Sense.

Can't get hurt in games you don't play. :party:

Rumors are that the Falcons are looking to do even more to avoid injury to Penix by stuffing him in a protective box while he's on the sideline.

https://wp.clutchpoints.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/F_0iXmCXoAAhGEr.jpeg

[Atocep]

The reason the Falcons picking Penix is completely indefensible is because of the value of the rookie contract, which I think QS mentioned earlier. If he sits for 2 years, as planned, you get 1 year to see him play before you have to make a decision on the 5th year option. At that point he's no longer cheap. That 5th year is discounted, but no longer the insane value that comes with having a rookie 1st round qb during those first 4 years.

Also, keep in mind that if they release Cousins after 2 years they're eating $35 million in dead cap space. That is lost value against the cap because of Penix. With that in mind, at no point during his contract is he going to be cheap and playing for you.

If he's anything less than a really good/great QB that you don't hesitate to sign to an extension then it's a disaster. Not a bad pick. A disaster.

[CrimsonFox]

dude will break like a pinata. But I'll be around to sweep up all the sweet sweet candy.

Seriously can't wait til he busts and Cousins sinks. I mean this WILL affect Cousins mentally. He needs to have his agent find him another team.

[weegeebored]

Can't get hurt in games you don't play.Yeah...that's what happens when you have the training staff give feedback in the draft room. It's a bold strategy, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for 'em.

[Lathum]

dude will break like a pinata. But I'll be around to sweep up all the sweet sweet candy.

Seriously can't wait til he busts and Cousins sinks. I mean this WILL affect Cousins mentally. He needs to have his agent find him another team.

Why would you root for a great kid to bust?

[Bobble]

The reason the Falcons picking Penix is completely indefensible is because of the value of the rookie contract, which I think QS mentioned earlier. If he sits for 2 years, as planned, you get 1 year to see him play before you have to make a decision on the 5th year option. At that point he's no longer cheap. That 5th year is discounted, but no longer the insane value that comes with having a rookie 1st round qb during those first 4 years.

Also, keep in mind that if they release Cousins after 2 years they're eating $35 million in dead cap space. That is lost value against the cap because of Penix. With that in mind, at no point during his contract is he going to be cheap and playing for you.

If he's anything less than a really good/great QB that you don't hesitate to sign to an extension then it's a disaster. Not a bad pick. A disaster.

All true. The other part of the argument is that "we'll never pick this high again so we won't be able to get a QB of this caliber." Even assuming you're correct on Penix's caliber AND correct that you are a top 10 team that can't really trade up from the back of the first round to get one of the top few rookie QBs (which I'm not sure is true), you can't tell me that you have no avenue to acquire a good QB. You just did it to get Cousins and you're telling me that he makes you this top team right now. < confused shrug/WTF emoji >

[miami_fan]

Why would you root for a great kid to bust?

To punish the Falcons for not picking a defensive player that they need?

[CrimsonFox]

I will not feel sorry for guys making millions to play a game

[CrimsonFox]

But yeah it's more about making fun of the falcons than anything.

they deserve all the hate they are getting.

Penix, meh...I don't think he can survive the NFL with all those major injuries that happened just at the college level. But he'll make some money and then be a backup somewhere.

So like why aren't they getting rid of astroturf yet since the wave of coddling the players from injuries seems to be all the rage.

[dubb93]

But yeah it's more about making fun of the falcons than anything.

they deserve all the hate they are getting.

Penix, meh...I don't think he can survive the NFL with all those major injuries that happened just at the college level. But he'll make some money and then be a backup somewhere.

So like why aren't they getting rid of astroturf yet since the wave of coddling the players from injuries seems to be all the rage.

It’s easy to write off Penix as being injury prone but let’s see how you hold up playing in the big 10 with Indiana’s line protecting you and Indiana’s skill position players trying to make plays for you.

[thesloppy]

Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes!

[weegeebored]

It’s easy to write off Penix as being injury prone but let’s see how you hold up playing in the big 10 with Indiana’s line protecting you and Indiana’s skill position players trying to make plays for you.What's the injury history for other Indiana QBs playing behind similar lines with similar skill players? And extend that stat out to QBs on other teams with similar lines and skill players? Do all of them have four season-ending injuries? The majority? Some? None??? Personally I don't care about ATL one way or the other, but making that move is stupid on so many levels. The only way the stink from this draft pick is removed is if Penix turns into a stud. Then I would just wonder why the Falcons paid Cousins. And why they waited 2(?) years to make Penix a starter.

[CrimsonFox]

Tell your old man to drag Walton and Lanier up and down the court for 48 minutes!

Pppppppppppppppppppppppp I did a spittake at that. WELL DONE :)

[CrimsonFox]

The Bengals have named their new Offensive Line "Cincinnati Skyline". :)
They got 3 6'8" 340+ guys now

A new WR and 2 new TEs plus some defense.

However, Something bothers me about Mims in my head. Like why he only started 8 games. Does he have an attitude issue? Like only will play on thursdays or something?


Will he last a whole season?

[GrantDawg]

He was playing behind upper classmen that are also now in the NFL, and then he had a severe ankle sprain that required surgery once he got the starting job. Can he hold up? That's a question. He is so big and so athletic that it's got to be tough on his legs.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[NobodyHere]

The Bengals have named their new Offensive Line "Cincinnati Skyline". :)


I want some chili now.

[albionmoonlight]

He was playing behind upper classmen that are also now in the NFL, and then he had a severe ankle sprain that required surgery once he got the starting job. Can he hold up? That's a question. He is so big and so athletic that it's got to be tough on his legs.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

I wonder if Terron Armstead is a good comp. His size and athleticism make him an all-pro level LT when he is healthy. But the human body isn't really designed to be that big and athletic, and he's always fighting one injury or another.

[QuikSand]

After a lengthy back-and-forth with friends offline about the ATL Penix pick, I think I have come around to a new place on it.

The central question is really just about the QB position in the modern NFL. It's obviously important, pretty clearly the most important single position anywhere in major professional sports, and arguably dictates team success in an overwhelming fashion overall. Buying into this logic further and further toward the extreme side can send you into directions that start to seem irrational. (We've seen this debate in miniature in the last decade or two as merely good-enough starters sometimes get market-setting contracts, and more recently as we rethink what the QB market properly looks like as a % of the overall team salary cap...and maybe that needle hasn't even come to rest quite yet, looking at you Mr. Mahomes)

So, IFF you buy that "QB = nearly everything" then much of the logic that would sensibly apply to any another position just might go out the window. Continue to heckle the Raiders for targeting the standout TE after just acquiring a top TE last year, as an imperfect but current example - that's fine, TE isn't what determines the whole story. But, if QB is indeed basically what drives NFL success, then you basically take you shot any time you believe there's a solid chance of landing a top QB, period. Meaning that yes, even if you have made a financial commitment to a current veteran starter for the 2-3 years ahead, you still go ahead and draft a new guy if your scouting convinces you he may well be the real deal. If he is the real deal, even if it takes 2-3 years to see that and you will have missed out on getting value from him as a young/cheap starter, you could either walk into a high level still-young starter late in his rookie contract (a la Jordan Love) or you could perhaps parlay that promising young guy into a Browns-for-Watson overpayment from a QB-starved franchise elsewhere and reap back more draft capital than you expended initially.

I don't think I buy this overall, but... I think it's at least a coherent way to get yourself to "Falcons drafting Penix there was okay, or even smart." It's because QB is just so off-the-charts different that the normal logic and rules just can't apply to the process of acquiring a possible star there.

[dubb93]

What's the injury history for other Indiana QBs playing behind similar lines with similar skill players? And extend that stat out to QBs on other teams with similar lines and skill players? Do all of them have four season-ending injuries? The majority? Some? None??? Personally I don't care about ATL one way or the other, but making that move is stupid on so many levels. The only way the stink from this draft pick is removed is if Penix turns into a stud. Then I would just wonder why the Falcons paid Cousins. And why they waited 2(?) years to make Penix a starter.

Penix last season there was 2021. In 2022 Dexter Williams blew his knee out and missed 2023. In 2023 IU rotated QBs but Brenden Sorsby did get a shoulder injury against Penn State.

[Kodos]

Our line hasn’t been great. One of Penix’s injuries came as he ran untouched out of bounds. Just a fluky injury.

[bhlloy]

After a lengthy back-and-forth with friends offline about the ATL Penix pick, I think I have come around to a new place on it.

The central question is really just about the QB position in the modern NFL. It's obviously important, pretty clearly the most important single position anywhere in major professional sports, and arguably dictates team success in an overwhelming fashion overall. Buying into this logic further and further toward the extreme side can send you into directions that start to seem irrational. (We've seen this debate in miniature in the last decade or two as merely good-enough starters sometimes get market-setting contracts, and more recently as we rethink what the QB market properly looks like as a % of the overall team salary cap...and maybe that needle hasn't even come to rest quite yet, looking at you Mr. Mahomes)

So, IFF you buy that "QB = nearly everything" then much of the logic that would sensibly apply to any another position just might go out the window. Continue to heckle the Raiders for targeting the standout TE after just acquiring a top TE last year, as an imperfect but current example - that's fine, TE isn't what determines the whole story. But, if QB is indeed basically what drives NFL success, then you basically take you shot any time you believe there's a solid chance of landing a top QB, period. Meaning that yes, even if you have made a financial commitment to a current veteran starter for the 2-3 years ahead, you still go ahead and draft a new guy if your scouting convinces you he may well be the real deal. If he is the real deal, even if it takes 2-3 years to see that and you will have missed out on getting value from him as a young/cheap starter, you could either walk into a high level still-young starter late in his rookie contract (a la Jordan Love) or you could perhaps parlay that promising young guy into a Browns-for-Watson overpayment from a QB-starved franchise elsewhere and reap back more draft capital than you expended initially.

I don't think I buy this overall, but... I think it's at least a coherent way to get yourself to "Falcons drafting Penix there was okay, or even smart." It's because QB is just so off-the-charts different that the normal logic and rules just can't apply to the process of acquiring a possible star there.

This has major "person who had their face eaten by leopard after voting for the face eating leopard party tries to justify said vote" level of leaps of logic in it IMO. I think it's far more likely the Falcons are just genuinely rudderless or have convinced themselves they are smarter than they really are.

If you are getting an elite QB prospect in the top 3, I can see the logic (even though good luck holding that QB room together for 2 years). Or if it's a late first round pick where the chances of getting a very good starter at another position are somewhere less than 50/50, that also probably makes a bit of sense (the Jordan Love scenario). The 8th overall pick on a guy who really had a 2nd/3rd round grade on him for various reasons and will also be in his mid 20's before he sees the field and you actually see if he can play NFL football, yeah I'm just not seeing it. If they'd done it with Drake Maye at the #3 overall, I still would think it was stupid but I think you'd have more chance of convincing myself there was something in that logic.

[JPhillips]

What are the odds that the 4th QB taken is going to be a star?

Will Levis
Matt Corral
Justin Fields
Jordan Love
Drew Locke
Josh Rosen
DeShone Kizer
Christian Hackenberg
Sean Mannion
Derek Carr
Matt Barkley
Brandon Weeden
Christian Ponder
Colt McCoy

Not a strong list since 2010.

[QuikSand]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The more I think about it, the ATL pick boils down to:<br><br>1. How you view Penix <br><br>2. How solid does a team’s QB situation have to be for them *not* to draft a guy?<br><br>If you think Cousins is shaky enough to justify a shot despite his $…you gotta believe NYG should’ve gone QB, right?</p>&mdash; Mina Kimes (@minakimes) <a href="https://twitter.com/minakimes/status/1785702567428895127?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 1, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

[CrimsonFox]

Continue to heckle the Raiders for targeting the standout TE after just acquiring a top TE last year, as an imperfect but current example - that's fine, TE isn't what determines the whole story.

Oh that's a good one! Let's make fun of the Raiders now!

[CrimsonFox]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">The more I think about it, the ATL pick boils down to:<br><br>1. How you view Penix <br><br>2. How solid does a team’s QB situation have to be for them *not* to draft a guy?<br><br>If you think Cousins is shaky enough to justify a shot despite his $…you gotta believe NYG should’ve gone QB, right?</p>&mdash; Mina Kimes (@minakimes) <a href="https://twitter.com/minakimes/status/1785702567428895127?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 1, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

I thought that said Mila Kunis at first....and I STILL say HOT!

[CrimsonFox]

What are the odds that the 4th QB taken is going to be a star?

Will Levis
Matt Corral
Justin Fields
Jordan Love
Drew Locke
Josh Rosen
DeShone Kizer
Christian Hackenberg
Sean Mannion
Derek Carr
Matt Barkley
Brandon Weeden
Christian Ponder
Colt McCoy

Not a strong list since 2010.

During the draft they were talking about pick 99 being a hot commodity because of the previous 99s.

[Thomkal]

What are the odds that the 4th QB taken is going to be a star?

Will Levis
Matt Corral
Justin Fields
Jordan Love
Drew Locke
Josh Rosen
DeShone Kizer
Christian Hackenberg
Sean Mannion
Derek Carr
Matt Barkley
Brandon Weeden
Christian Ponder
Colt McCoy

Not a strong list since 2010.


OOF! That's a whole lot of mostly suck.

[Qwikshot]

After a lengthy back-and-forth with friends offline about the ATL Penix pick, I think I have come around to a new place on it.

The central question is really just about the QB position in the modern NFL. It's obviously important, pretty clearly the most important single position anywhere in major professional sports, and arguably dictates team success in an overwhelming fashion overall. Buying into this logic further and further toward the extreme side can send you into directions that start to seem irrational. (We've seen this debate in miniature in the last decade or two as merely good-enough starters sometimes get market-setting contracts, and more recently as we rethink what the QB market properly looks like as a % of the overall team salary cap...and maybe that needle hasn't even come to rest quite yet, looking at you Mr. Mahomes)

So, IFF you buy that "QB = nearly everything" then much of the logic that would sensibly apply to any another position just might go out the window. Continue to heckle the Raiders for targeting the standout TE after just acquiring a top TE last year, as an imperfect but current example - that's fine, TE isn't what determines the whole story. But, if QB is indeed basically what drives NFL success, then you basically take you shot any time you believe there's a solid chance of landing a top QB, period. Meaning that yes, even if you have made a financial commitment to a current veteran starter for the 2-3 years ahead, you still go ahead and draft a new guy if your scouting convinces you he may well be the real deal. If he is the real deal, even if it takes 2-3 years to see that and you will have missed out on getting value from him as a young/cheap starter, you could either walk into a high level still-young starter late in his rookie contract (a la Jordan Love) or you could perhaps parlay that promising young guy into a Browns-for-Watson overpayment from a QB-starved franchise elsewhere and reap back more draft capital than you expended initially.

I don't think I buy this overall, but... I think it's at least a coherent way to get yourself to "Falcons drafting Penix there was okay, or even smart." It's because QB is just so off-the-charts different that the normal logic and rules just can't apply to the process of acquiring a possible star there.

I'm not going to be surprised if at some point the NFL and the player's union equate QB as a special position that is almost separate from other players in regards to the cap. It is the most crucial position for success. The average to good quarterbacks keep you competitive; the best can get you a championship.

Truth is the draft is a crapshoot, all players are variables. Some may be better but there are so many extra factors to success and just because your draft is a success (what is that 2 starters maybe, 1 superstar, or several role players).

I think when critics are evaluating a draft on whether it is successful it's looking at output which is impossible until seasons later; rather they are evaluting on whether the draft strategy made sense.

The Eagles had a weak secondary; they drafted two highly regarded CBs. They also grabbed 7 other players and nabbed 3 draft picks for next year. The strategy makes sense therefore they are graded high. But they graded high last year and Jalen Carter wore down and Nolan Smith barely saw the field. So for output, not a great 2023 draft but the strategy made sense.

To me, the critics are confusing output (perceived or otherwise) grading rather than did the drafting strategy make sense (the Raiders drafting Bowers when they have a good TE; could've traded down and gotten more picks or the Falcons drafting Penix when they got Cousins).

This QB critque was prevalent when the Eagles drafted Hurts when they had Wentz. There was much criticism in Philly but present day, no complaints.

[GrantDawg]

I think it's far more likely the Falcons are just genuinely rudderless or have convinced themselves they are smarter than they really are.

They definitely think they are outsmarting everyone else. That trade up to the top of the second to get a player rated for the third round tells you that. We just got rid of a coach that had that "smarter than everyone else" attitude just to have a new regime that seem to have that attitude. I can't tell you how thrilled I am. This off-season went from hopefully optimistic to completely cringey really fast.

[bhlloy]

This QB critque was prevalent when the Eagles drafted Hurts when they had Wentz. There was much criticism in Philly but present day, no complaints.

Drafting a QB with the 53rd overall pick as a potential replacement for somebody coming to the end of their rookie deal who already had a ton of question marks around his play and ability to stay healthy is really nothing like drafting a QB with the 8th overall pick as a potential replacement for a guy you gave $100m guaranteed a couple of months previously.

And that’s not even starting to consider the question marks over the player they took.

[Passacaglia]

Drafting a QB with the 53rd overall pick as a potential replacement for somebody coming to the end of their rookie deal who already had a ton of question marks around his play and ability to stay healthy is really nothing like drafting a QB with the 8th overall pick as a potential replacement for a guy you gave $100m guaranteed a couple of months previously.

And that’s not even starting to consider the question marks over the player they took.

Well, it kinda is...

[bhlloy]

It’s not because I’m talking about Wentz in the first but you’ve highlighted. If the Falcons feel the same in 2024 about Kirk Cousins that the Eagles felt about Carson Wentz in 2019, they probably should have not given him $100m guaranteed?

[Passacaglia]

Ah, I see what you're saying.

[Qwikshot]

It’s not because I’m talking about Wentz in the first but you’ve highlighted. If the Falcons feel the same in 2024 about Kirk Cousins that the Eagles felt about Carson Wentz in 2019, they probably should have not given him $100m guaranteed?

Sorry, I wasn't saying it was apples to apples. It was more like that was the last time I think there was surprise at a QB drafted.

I think Wentz got an extension in 2019. (4 years 128 million). Hurts was drafted 2020.

[CrimsonFox]

The NFL is suing the University of Houston for using new powder blue jerseys.

[CrimsonFox]

NFL Draft 2024: After Michael Penix Jr. pick, Falcons tried trading back into top 10 with Jets for this player - CBSSports.com (https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-draft-2024-after-michael-penix-jr-pick-falcons-tried-trading-back-into-top-10-with-jets-for-this-player/?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR00Dq-idfQElDR5ghUqTxsvZkydSayXebllrvgdKsIH4ftlr-RX2svp-b8_aem_AautqSSfThxX3SdABC44nHvBTSHjvgWKivsm6nOfJ5YOavpeIjNMssPobKvAEWYWQszWiAYHBLsiiwbVlnmJ-KpE)

[CrimsonFox]

Speaking of busting predictions...

Major Outlet Picks Amarius Mims as One of Most Likely 2024 AFC Draft Picks to Bust (https://www.si.com/nfl/bengals/sports-illustrated-picks-cincinnati-bengals-amarius-mims-as-one-of-most-likely-2024-afc-draft-picks-to-bust?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR3kHLngYRcRMKkKON24e0AFOVGX2AUwWVw1a53toQJtbOMuqShOxDbqf3E_aem_AauG4eNo3Huy8Dy2SaKFRbMdtyFo6ekxiLd9p3c515joxB_ZsT8Pjk_0ZQVeLlzPFLwknV1bN-n4OLmSGgVZ6Y-Y)

[flere-imsaho]

After a lengthy back-and-forth with friends offline about the ATL Penix pick, I think I have come around to a new place on it.

I came here tonight to post something similar after marinating on the question for a few days.

But first of all, there are definitely some things about this situation that the Falcons mishandled. Mina Kimes' point on draft night about the value of rookie contracts remains a good one especially if they plan to have him sit as long as they said they might (which I don't actually believe, see below).

Secondly, the way they handled it with Cousins was not great, arguably even worse than what the Packers did with both Favre and Rodgers. The whole "we're fine letting him sit for 3-4 years" definitely smacks of trying to walk something back after realizing they had pissed off Cousins.

If Cousins sucks or gets injured (something they clearly anticipated given that all the guaranteed money is in the first two years of his deal) then they have a Plan B that, in theory at least, can step in and not have them scraping the bottom of the barrel again (questioning whether they can adequately judge QB talent is a whole separate discussion). If Cousins declines after two years, same as above but they're still getting value from the contract. And if Cousins is good for four years, well then maybe they can flip Penix for some picks or at least he didn't cost them that much money or honestly no one will care by that point (the last point is very, very important to the GM's job security).

Now, where they failed was in not finding a better way to message it with Cousins. I don't know Cousins, so I don't know how he'd take being told that Penix is Cousins insurance. But there has to be a better way to message the choice than the way that they did it. Keeping your QB happy is literally part of their job.


If you are getting an elite QB prospect in the top 3, I can see the logic (even though good luck holding that QB room together for 2 years). Or if it's a late first round pick where the chances of getting a very good starter at another position are somewhere less than 50/50, that also probably makes a bit of sense (the Jordan Love scenario). The 8th overall pick on a guy who really had a 2nd/3rd round grade on him for various reasons and will also be in his mid 20's before he sees the field and you actually see if he can play NFL football, yeah I'm just not seeing it. If they'd done it with Drake Maye at the #3 overall, I still would think it was stupid but I think you'd have more chance of convincing myself there was something in that logic.

To echo some of the stuff that QS wrote, the fact of the matter is that, as we have discussed upthread and in previous threads, it is a) very difficult to obtain a good-to-elite QB and b) having a good-to-elite QB has become pretty much a requirement to getting to the postseason and potentially doing well in the postseason.

The number of QBs who can lift an average team or below-average offensive unit (with a competent defensive unit) into the playoffs is probably in the single digits. The number of QBs who can do the same when paired with a stellar OC or HC operating as an OC (e.g. McVay or McDaniel) is also in the single digits.

When I did my tiering exercise, you basically get through, generously, 16 QBs before you get to the "fuck it, start tanking" tier.

So I think that if you're a team that's drafting and has a need for a QB either now or potentially in the next few years (see the Favre & Rodgers situations), and you come across a candidate that you think has the chance to be competent-to-good (with caveats of course around teams' ability to judge talent) you should just take him, regardless of draft position. The position is simply that important.

Anyway, I'm probably super wrong, but I've spent far too much time thinking about this on my commute and so you all get to be the beneficiaries of that lol. :)

[CrimsonFox]

Was just reading about the Rasheed Rice suspension. Was he drinking or high? Cause that's the only reason I can see why he will be suspended.

[RainMaker]

Was just reading about the Rasheed Rice suspension. Was he drinking or high? Cause that's the only reason I can see why he will be suspended.

He does have a lot of charges from the crash. Looks like 8 in total and some are serious. Appears he was going close to 120 and caused a big wreck that hurt a lot of people. Then he fled the scene.

Maybe after the Ruggs incident, the NFL is tired of it and wants to send a message.

[CrimsonFox]

He does have a lot of charges from the crash. Looks like 8 in total and some are serious. Appears he was going close to 120 and caused a big wreck that hurt a lot of people. Then he fled the scene.

Maybe after the Ruggs incident, the NFL is tired of it and wants to send a message.

okay F him then.

I DID see that it was a pile up partially caused by him and that a lot of people were hurt but I didn't see the other details.

And oh wow that Ruggs case is sad
Ex-Raiders WR Henry Ruggs III sentenced 3 to 10 years for fatal DUI - ESPN (https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/38162272/ex-raiders-wr-henry-ruggs-iii-sentenced-3-10-years-fatal-dui)

[flere-imsaho]

Appears he was going close to 120 and caused a big wreck that hurt a lot of people. Then he fled the scene.

Check, check, check - someone who does all three, here, needs to be doing some serious time, even without a discussion of being on substances.

[molson]

It's always been annoying to me that leaving the scene of an accident is a lesser crime than DUI, so it makes complete logical sense to flee the scene if you're drunk or high, even if you know you're probably going to be caught eventually.

[GrantDawg]

It's always been annoying to me that leaving the scene of an accident is a lesser crime than DUI, so it makes complete logical sense to flee the scene if you're drunk or high, even if you know you're probably going to be caught eventually.
This. "Leaving a scene of an accident with injuries" should carry the same consequences as a third DUI.

[CrimsonFox]

ex-Bears/Steelers/Dolphins WR Chase Claypool has signed with the Bills

[CrimsonFox]

This. "Leaving a scene of an accident with injuries" should carry the same consequences as a third DUI.

this article has video footage of both the crash AND him and his friends leaving the scene.

https://foxsportsradio.iheart.com/featured/breaking-sport-news/content/2024-05-02-chiefs-expected-punishment-for-rashee-rice-is-revealed/

[RainMaker]

This. "Leaving a scene of an accident with injuries" should carry the same consequences as a third DUI.

Agree. I think leaving the scene in general should be treated like a DUI. We charge people with DUI if they refuse the breathalyzer, but we don't if they run away and sober up?

I remember Lance Briggs did something like this years ago in Chicago.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2992847

[flere-imsaho]

DUI is one of those things I don't think we punish hard enough because too many rich white guys worry they could easily get caught for it.

[Passacaglia]

Agree. I think leaving the scene in general should be treated like a DUI. We charge people with DUI if they refuse the breathalyzer, but we don't if they run away and sober up?

I remember Lance Briggs did something like this years ago in Chicago.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2992847

I remember that. For a while the next morning, the story on the radio was "they found his car by the freeway" like they didn't want to say what happened, but everyone could put 2 and 2 together.

[Carman Bulldog]

To echo some of the stuff that QS wrote, the fact of the matter is that, as we have discussed upthread and in previous threads, it is a) very difficult to obtain a good-to-elite QB and b) having a good-to-elite QB has become pretty much a requirement to getting to the postseason and potentially doing well in the postseason.

The number of QBs who can lift an average team or below-average offensive unit (with a competent defensive unit) into the playoffs is probably in the single digits. The number of QBs who can do the same when paired with a stellar OC or HC operating as an OC (e.g. McVay or McDaniel) is also in the single digits.

When I did my tiering exercise, you basically get through, generously, 16 QBs before you get to the "fuck it, start tanking" tier.

So I think that if you're a team that's drafting and has a need for a QB either now or potentially in the next few years (see the Favre & Rodgers situations), and you come across a candidate that you think has the chance to be competent-to-good (with caveats of course around teams' ability to judge talent) you should just take him, regardless of draft position. The position is simply that important.

Anyway, I'm probably super wrong, but I've spent far too much time thinking about this on my commute and so you all get to be the beneficiaries of that lol. :)
This was basically my point. I just think quarterback is so important in today's NFL that if your staff - between scouts and coaches - comes to the consensus that a player could be in that Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Lamar tier (or even Herbert, Dak territory) and you don't have an otherwise long-term solution at quarterback, then you take that player.

Now, will Atlanta be correct in their assessment about Penix? Probably not, but they have to trust their own evaluation process.

In an ideal world, they wouldn't have signed Cousins. As much as I like Cousins, he's never been named to the All-Pro team nor has he ever garnered any MVP or OPOY votes. So giving a soon to be 36-year-old quarterback coming off Achilles surgery that contract was debatable given the track record of quarterbacks at that age.

If their plan was always to sign Cousins and draft who they felt was the best quarterback available, then they're idiots. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt though that it was a situation where they never initially intended to draft a QB and simply fell in love with a player as they continued to get closer to the draft. And again, I think they have to trust their own evaluation. So assuming they have Penix scouted as a top-tier quarterback - and not just the best QB available - then I don't have a problem with the process of spending the pick on your potential long-term franchise QB.

In the same vein, and I know this seems somewhat contradictory, but I have no problem with the fact that the Giants didn't take a quarterback, despite them not having a long term answer at the position. If their assessment is that McCarthy/Penix/Nix don't have that elite tier potential, then they shouldn't be reaching there. At the end of the day, teams have to trust their own evaluations.

[CrimsonFox]

Rashee Rice: WR under investigation for assault, police say | wfaa.com (https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/rashee-rice-under-investigation-alleged-nightclub-assault-dallas-police-say/287-a8798eda-31c0-4e44-94ba-c96e8067163e)

Rice reported to have hit a photographer.

And he's being sued twice for the crash too.

And...all 8 counts he's charged with are felonies.

I don't see how he doesn't go to jail for at least a year.

[RainMaker]

I wonder if the Chiefs don't just cut him soon.

[Danny]

Chiefs are amazing at winning but Im not sure they give a crap about ethics and character.

[CrimsonFox]

Pee Wee Jarrett is available again!

[CrimsonFox]

If someone is signed as an UDFA, and then is later cut. Do they get the total amount of money they signed for? Or do they only get paid for the amount of time with the organization?

[Brian Swartz]

Depends on the contract.

[thesloppy]

If someone is signed as an UDFA, and then is later cut. Do they get the total amount of money they signed for? Or do they only get paid for the amount of time with the organization?


The latter. I think there have been some UDFA contracts with guaranteed money, but they are pretty rare.

[stevew]

They would get the guaranteed money and then they probably also get a certain amount of money for each week that they practice with the team in the off-season. It’s most likely in the hundreds of dollars range.

[GrantDawg]

The signing bonus is guaranteed. Some players get up to $70k, but most guys that are in some kind of demand get in the $10-20k neighborhood. There is a team cap on UDFA signing bonuses at around $180k.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[CrimsonFox]

Okay let me rephrase then.

Guys that aren't big names or high in the draft.
I mean really if they were undrafted they weren't high anyway.

What brought up this question was that I've read that some UDFAs have been cut already!

I can't imagine UDFA contracts having any sort of bonus signing if they are still having to "audition" for the team to see if they make it!

[CrimsonFox]

also Grant, could you be my agent and get me signed to a team please?
Just get me the lowest signing bonus and I'll be good. Then I'll audition and....take my money...

[RainMaker]

From my understanding, they almost all sign for the league minimum. That contract has no guaranteed money. Now teams do offer a signing bonus which is guaranteed but is usually small (like $20k). The higher sought after UDFAs can command 6 figure bonuses though.

As for players being cut, my guess is they were either not given a signing bonus or a small one where $10k is not altering your cap number much at all. And they likely needed to cut the person because they wanted to sign someone else and needed the roster slot.

[CrimsonFox]

And they likely needed to cut the person because they wanted to sign someone else and needed the roster slot.

yeah, those crazy chiefs

[thesloppy]

What brought up this question was that I've read that some UDFAs have been cut already!

I can't imagine UDFA contracts having any sort of bonus signing if they are still having to "audition" for the team to see if they make it!


It's probably also worth mentioning that there's still a roster limit for NFL teams, even during the offseason (though it is significantly expanded), so any team that has already at that limit would have to cut someone before they could sign anybody else.

[GrantDawg]

Okay let me rephrase then.

Guys that aren't big names or high in the draft.
I mean really if they were undrafted they weren't high anyway.

What brought up this question was that I've read that some UDFAs have been cut already!

I can't imagine UDFA contracts having any sort of bonus signing if they are still having to "audition" for the team to see if they make it!
Most guys that simply get "camp invites" aren't getting much in the way of bonus money. Those are the guys you are seeing getting cut. Teams have so many roster spots to fill, and they need certain numbers in each position to fill out practice squads to scrimmage against. That's why teams right now will have at least 4 if not 5 quarterbacks. They are mostly practice arms to throw passes in inter-mural scrimmages.
But there are plenty of guys that teams scramble for that are un-drafted. Every team will usually end up with a couple of those guys hanging on the roster. Sometimes it is easier to make a team as an UDFA than as a low round draft pick. The more in demand guys are at least very likely to get on practice squads. They are usually guys with either high athleticism but very rough technique, or they lack athleticism but are very fundamentally sound.

[bronconick]

NFL probably tossing Xmas day games on ...Netflix

[weegeebored]

Crazy money for Goff

https://www.si.com/lions-lock-up-jared-goff-212-million-contract-extension-01hxswhqbasd

[RainMaker]

NFL probably tossing Xmas day games on ...Netflix

This sucks. I sort of get the Thursday Night shit but it feels like I'll need 3-4 subscriptions on top of cable to watch the NFL.

[CrimsonFox]

They will eventually name teams not after cities and animal mascots but after companies and stream platforms.

Division:

Netflixes
Yahoos
Hulus
Disneys
Peacocks

[stevew]

I just don’t know else who was lining up to give Goff that much money.

[albionmoonlight]

Goff's new deal will make him the NFL's second highest-paid quarterback on a per-year basis. His deal will average $53 million per season, trailing only Joe Burrow ($55 million), and ahead of Justin Herbert ($52.5 million), Lamar Jackson ($52 million) and Jalen Hurts ($51 million). It will effectively set the market for the league's next round of quarterback contracts.

Based on those numbers, it does feel like $45 million is a better fit for Goff.

But I can see two things motivating the Lions' thinking here.

(1) Dak's extension is looming, and he's getting closer to $60/year than $50/year. And you are going to have extensions for Jordan Love, etc. coming up, too. It's generally smart to get in on the front end of the extension train because the numbers always go up.

(2) This is the Lions. They have been a joke for years. And now they are not. And adding this to the St. Brown and Sewell extensions sends the message to the fans and the locker room that they are in it to win it. I like that. You are trying to wash away 50 years of bad karma. You've got to take some bold strokes to do that.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Based on those numbers, it does feel like $45 million is a better fit for Goff.

But I can see two things motivating the Lions' thinking here.

(1) Dak's extension is looming, and he's getting closer to $60/year than $50/year. And you are going to have extensions for Jordan Love, etc. coming up, too. It's generally smart to get in on the front end of the extension train because the numbers always go up.

(2) This is the Lions. They have been a joke for years. And now they are not. And adding this to the St. Brown and Sewell extensions sends the message to the fans and the locker room that they are in it to win it. I like that. You are trying to wash away 50 years of bad karma. You've got to take some bold strokes to do that.

I agree with all of this.

$45 million, or, at most, around $46-48 million felt right for Goff given the type of quarterback he is. He's just limited. He has no mobility and when things aren't perfect - pass rush, weather, etc. - he falls apart, but when things are clicking he's fantastic. He shouldn't be making more money than Mahomes, Jackson, Allen, and that group of quarterbacks, but likely a little more than the Daniel Jones' of the world. The Kirk Cousins deal feels right, given he and Goff seem pretty comparable, though Cousins is older and coming off that Achilles.

Goff's value to the Lions is likely higher than it is to other teams. The team and whole city rallied around him big time last year and it would be very hard to keep what Holmes and Campbell have built going if they let him walk.

I'll ask Chris Spielman all about it when we hangout!

[Swaggs]

Just for fun, if you had to win a playoff game right now, which QBs do we take ahead of Goff?

Baltimore Ravens
Lamar Jackson

Buffalo Bills
Josh Allen

Cincinnati Bengals
Joe Burrow

Cleveland Browns
Deshaun Watson

Denver Broncos
Jarrett Stidham*
(Drafted Bo Nix)

Houston Texans
C.J. Stroud

Indianapolis Colts
Anthony Richardson

Jacksonville Jaguars
Trevor Lawrence

Kansas City Chiefs
Patrick Mahomes
Las Vegas Raiders

Aidan O’Connell*
(Signed Gardner Minshew)

Los Angeles Chargers
Justin Herbert

Miami Dolphins
Tua Tagovailoa

New England Patriots
Jacoby Brissett*
(Drafted Drake Maye)

New York Jets
Aaron Rodgers

Pittsburgh Steelers
Russell Wilson
(Traded for Justin Fields)

Tennessee Titans
Will Levis

Atlanta Falcons
Kirk Cousins
(Drafted Michael Penix Jr.)

Arizona Cardinals
Kyler Murray

Carolina Panthers
Bryce Young

Chicago Bears
Caleb Williams

Dallas Cowboys
Dak Prescott

Detroit Lions
Jared Goff

Green Bay Packers
Jordan Love

Los Angeles Rams
Matthew Stafford

Minnesota Vikings
Sam Darnold*
(Drafted J.J. McCarthy)

New Orleans Saints
Derek Carr

New York Giants
Daniel Jones

Philadelphia Eagles
Jalen Hurts

San Francisco 49ers
Brock Purdy

Seattle Seahawks
Geno Smith

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Baker Mayfield

Washington Commanders
Marcus Mariota*
(Drafted Jayden Daniels)

[thesloppy]

Goff and that OLine are a package deal. With any kind of pressure he turns into a pumpkin, but keep him clean and he can play at the highest level. I'll agree that he's not as good as some of the QBs that are getting paid less, but as mentioned the Lions have managed to sign Sewell and St Brown to extensions as well, so as long as their cap is in good shape & there's no sacrifices to make, why not give Goff his flowers?


The QB pay scale is so fluid these days it's hard to say anything is ridiculous when the ranks might look entirely different in 6 months. I think the Lions made Stafford a top-3 paid QB at one time, for worse results.

[stevew]

I’m taking 9 over Goff

(healthy)Lamar/(Healthy)Burrow/Allen/Mahomes/Purdy/Hurts/Prescott/Stroud/Herbert

[thesloppy]

I’m taking 9 over Goff

(healthy)Lamar/(Healthy)Burrow/Allen/Mahomes/Purdy/Hurts/Prescott/Stroud/Herbert


I'd put Goff between Purdy and Hurts on that list.

[RainMaker]

I just don’t know else who was lining up to give Goff that much money.

It's one of those weird situations where both sides sort of need each other. Goff is unlikely getting paid that much on the open market. But the Lions are unlikely to find a better QB on the open market and there window is now.

[stevew]

They will eventually name teams not after cities and animal mascots but after companies and stream platforms.

Division:

Netflixes
Yahoos
Hulus
Disneys
Peacocks

Most of the baseball teams in Japan/Korea have been named like this. Nippon Ham. Toyo(Mazda) Carp. LG Twins. Etc. People would adapt.

[BYU 14]

I'd put Goff between Purdy and Hurts on that list.

Same

[Swaggs]

I’m taking 9 over Goff

(healthy)Lamar/(Healthy)Burrow/Allen/Mahomes/Purdy/Hurts/Prescott/Stroud/Herbert

This is about where I got, but then I kind of got hung up around Stroud and Herbert. Like, I would trade Goff for either (I still like Lawrence, too - maybe he never quite gets there, but he had such a clusterfuck situation his rookie year, he gets a little more time from me), but if I had to win one game in the playoffs, I might take Goff.

Goff has 4 playoff wins, is only 30 this season, has the pedigree of being #1 overall. I may be nuts, but I can talk myself into him.

[stevew]

I would put Goff in the next group of five. Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford, Tua, Love. If I knew, Rogers was staying healthy, all season and Stafford would be healthy I’m taking both. I know it’s been like a while since Watson was a functioning quarterback, but if you were getting 2020 him I’d have him way up in tiers.

So I don’t know maybe Goff Is actually the fifth or sixth best QB in the league at any given point due to injuries/weirdness/handjob addiction But he could easily be 12th best or something.

It’s a lot of coin for someone who looks like total trash from time to time.

[Brian Swartz]

I agree with Rainmaker on this. The main question is who they are going to get who is going to be better for the Lions right now. I think that's a list with no names on it, if they are going to keep the rest of their team intact. He's their best chance for the next couple of seasons. There's also always weirdness when the cap increases of players who make more than those who were signed under the previous salary cap who are 'better' players.

[GrantDawg]

I agree with Rainmaker on this. The main question is who they are going to get who is going to be better for the Lions right now. I think that's a list with no names on it, if they are going to keep the rest of their team intact. He's their best chance for the next couple of seasons. There's also always weirdness when the cap increases of players who make more than those who were signed under the previous salary cap who are 'better' players.
I guess it is a feature not a bug? It is a really strange system, but that is the case. The best players are often not the best paid players. It is all on when your contract comes up. That relates to all the noise about Cousins making so much money on his contracts. He has always hit the market at the best times to get paid.
As for Goff, there are maybe 13 QB's who are +quality starters at the most important position in the game. That means more than half the teams in the league need an upgrade. No surprise whenever one of those guys are up for a contract it is record-breaking.

[dubb93]

I would put Goff in the next group of five. Aaron Rodgers, Matthew Stafford, Tua, Love.

I'm taking 12. I'd take all four of these plus everyone off your first list besides Dak so I have him at 13 on my list.

[Honolulu_Blue]

What were the Lions realistic options if they didn't sign Goff?

They could have let him play out the final year of his contract. That would have given them additional data points to assess whether to re-sign him and then either sign him to an extension (at a price point that would almost certainly be above the $53M/year) (note that the Cowboys are getting ripped for waiting so long to sign Dak, which will just make his value go up and up), tag him (not sure what the price would be), or let him walk. The downside of this, is that it would hang over the team all year long and who knows how it would effect Goff and the team.

Maybe they're in a better spot if they do that, but there are still a lot of variables there.

I think we all agree that Goff isn't an elite quarterback and definitely shouldn't be the second highest paid player in the NFL based on talent, skill, etc. That being said, as others have noted, this is how contracts work in the NFL and what other options do the Lions have to actually get better at the position, if they decided not to re-sign Goff?

Unless something really weird happens (DeShaun Watson and that has turned out terrible), no one is trading any of these elite quarterbacks. So, trading for one of these types of players isn't an option.

They really don't get to free agency either. Lamar Jackson was a RFA a year ago, no one signed him, because the Ravens would have just matched any deal and top-end UFAs are rare or when they happen they come with their own risks like Cousins, who is 34 and has that Achilles. So, signing an elite quarterback in free agency isn't really an option either.

So, that leaves drafting one. That's a massive crapshoot. First, one of these elite quarterbacks needs to be available in the draft class. Second, you need to be in a position to be able to draft that player. Third, that player actually needs to reach his full potential. A franchise can be stuck trying to get all of those stars to align for decades, while they wallow in mediocre QB play.

The majority of the elite QBs are top 10 picks. I imagine if Lamar Jackson was coming out of college today, he would be a top 10 pick given how the league has changed since he was drafted.

The Lions window is now. They almost made the Super Bowl last year. They have a really strong roster.

Re-signing Goff was really their best and only realistic option.

Let's hope it works out!

[CrimsonFox]

*goff goff*

[stevew]

Big fuck you to a Christmas Day Weds game at 1pm. As someone who relies on there being as many Sunday at 1 games as possible for work purposes, this completely blows.

[Honolulu_Blue]

The Lions have five prime time games - Rams, Seahawks, Houston, Green Bay and San Francisco, not including Thanksgiving (the Bears). Tough games all around.

[CrimsonFox]

Big fuck you to a Christmas Day Weds game at 1pm. As someone who relies on there being as many Sunday at 1 games as possible for work purposes, this completely blows.

i mean what else are we gonna do on christmas? talk to each other?

[Thomkal]

Not a fan of the hype around the schedule release, but bonus points to the Chargers for their Sims schedule:


https://twitter.com/chargers/status/1790895458581467314?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=9826777&userId=12743780

[Atocep]

Not a fan of the hype around the schedule release, but bonus points to the Chargers for their Sims schedule:


https://twitter.com/chargers/status/1790895458581467314?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=9826777&userId=12743780


I've only seen a couple, but I have a hard time seeing anyone beat the Patriots release this year.

[molson]

I've only seen a couple, but I have a hard time seeing anyone beat the Patriots release this year.

I would have never thought to look that up and watch it, but ya, that was fun.

[albionmoonlight]

AFC 2023 Playoff Teams:
1. Ravens
2. Bills
3. Chiefs
4. Texans
5. Browns
6. Dolphins
7. Steelers

NFC 2023 Playoff Teams:
1. 49ers
2. Cowboys
3. Lions
4. Buccaneers
5. Eagles
6. Rams
7. Packers

Every season, teams we think will be good fall short and teams we don't see coming rise up.

Pick 6-8 of the teams above that you think are least likely to make the playoffs this season. And then what teams you think are most likely to replace them.

[albionmoonlight]

I'll guess that: Bills, Browns, Steelers, Cowboys, Buccaneers, Rams don't make it.

And that they are replaced by Bengals, Chargers, Jaguars, Falcons, Cardinals, and Bears.

[CrimsonFox]

Not a fan of the hype around the schedule release, but bonus points to the Chargers for their Sims schedule:


https://twitter.com/chargers/status/1790895458581467314?source=pulsenewsletter&campaign=9826777&userId=12743780

omg I am being spammed with articles about schedules now. WTF? When will the clickbait stop???

[Bobble]

I was trying to find some perspective on the Goff deal because the goal posts are always moving (get it?). I thought this from a tweet was a valid comparison:

Spotrac
QB Average Salary vs. League Salary Cap at Signing
1. J. Burrow, 24.4%
2. J. Allen, 23.5%
3. J. Herbert, 23.3%
4. L. Jackson, 23.1%
5. P. Mahomes, 22.7%
6. J. Hurts, 22.6%
7. K. Murray, 22.1%
8. D. Watson, 22%
9. D. Prescott, 21.9%
10. J. Goff, 20.7%

[flere-imsaho]

What were the Lions realistic options if they didn't sign Goff?

This is the key point. Goff is known, Goff works (with this OC, especially). Are you going to go through the season with the distraction of his contract looming and maybe make a run at Prescott (who may or may not be an upgrade anyway)?

I think it's the right choice and in two years with cap rises it's not going to look outlandish anyway.

[QuikSand]

omg I am being spammed with articles about schedules now. WTF? When will the clickbait stop???

with all due respect, and all... are you, like, a nine year old girl?

you bring to a football forum such a range of things that seem out of place here, it's like you just typed in random characters into a search engine to get here as if you lost a bet or something

anyway... yes, professional football is a huge money making machine, it has various rules and stuff, and teams do things all year long that make for news for those of us who are fans of it all... that's kinda what we do here (among other things)

best of luck

[CrimsonFox]

with all due respect, and all... are you, like, a nine year old girl?

you bring to a football forum such a range of things that seem out of place here, it's like you just typed in random characters into a search engine to get here as if you lost a bet or something

anyway... yes, professional football is a huge money making machine, it has various rules and stuff, and teams do things all year long that make for news for those of us who are fans of it all... that's kinda what we do here (among other things)

best of luck

heh it was meant more comically than you took it but I've said before that I haven't really followed football really closely for more than a decade and I don't think I've ever followed offseason this closely. And that's pretty much thanks to you guys peaking my interest. I'm really enjoying it actually.
But lemme guess. It may be possible you think you know everything and thus people like me that know nothing about it, you'd rather ridicule than actually answer or casually chat with. Seems to me ThAT's more the 9 year old behavior you're referring to. So like chill out. That said I really am enjoying reading your off season stuff especially with the cardinals

As for what I was specficially referring to, On my desktop in the lower right corner there is a news feed that pops up and I guess since I have read a bunch of football articles it gives me more. That happened before with the mock draft stuff and that confusedc me. Even you guys complained about those. And now it's doing the same with the schedules. Like not just one but many articles every day lately rating schedules. Just surprised there are just so many which all amount to opinions. Facebook too is doing that. But you guys said it before and probably will say it again that most of that is just garbage. That was kinda my point.

[QuikSand]

will chill out, thanks

[flere-imsaho]

Time to replace QS's heat sink, it would appear.

[albionmoonlight]

https://scontent-iad3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/441383994_772215831558063_3478037996982792454_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=jyRcW12qIRwQ7kNvgF64GNU&_nc_ht=scontent-iad3-2.xx&oh=00_AYC_4xihP0q2FCLGl95S1xkOvyRgo_GK3HvjeJK-I0EBpw&oe=665138BA

[Kodos]

That’s pretty sad.

[stevew]

I love that stat. It’s like when Big Ben had the most qb wins in Browns stadium. Currently second I believe.

[Swaggs]

The best one about the Browns is that six teams have finished first in their division since their last 1st place finish in 1989 (and they actually won (4 out of 5 between '85-'89).

Baltimore (last won in '23), Cincinnati ('22), Pittsburgh ('20), Tennessee Titans ('00), Jacksonville ('99), and the Houston Oilers ('93).

The Titans and Oilers are the same franchise, but technically so are the '89 Browns and Baltimore Ravens.

[Passacaglia]

I saw a dude with a Jets hat last night and thought about telling him this stat.

[albionmoonlight]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GOD2nEkXgAEMzf-?format=jpg&name=small

Joe Burrow looks like he is going to go back to 1985 to sleep with your girlfriend and there isn't a thing you can do about it, nerd!

[CrimsonFox]

Saw on facebook with the tagline "It's early, but accurate". Made me laugh.

https://scontent.fluk1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/441529829_481647414428047_3428834870971615316_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=e8dSIsMeg58Q7kNvgEWK3DL&_nc_ht=scontent.fluk1-1.fna&oh=00_AYAF9eAA6-m9Tt6FIQOvzP8zBgol_Pde0OluerYtlnuIHA&oe=66563F07

[Passacaglia]

CF, I'm with you about the scheduling -- my google feed was filled with articles like "this team's schedule came out and what it means" for a few days. It's been a while since I've paid attention to how scheduling works, but...WTF? You've got 6 games against your division, 4 games against a division in the other conference, then I think it's 4 games against a division in the same conference, and then probably 3 games based on your rank in your division, now that we're at 17 games instead of 16? And this is all known in advance. Why is there so much freak-out about the schedule all over? Or is it just the social media world, combined with the fact that I'm finally paying attention to the NFL again?

[CrimsonFox]

CF, I'm with you about the scheduling -- my google feed was filled with articles like "this team's schedule came out and what it means" for a few days. It's been a while since I've paid attention to how scheduling works, but...WTF? You've got 6 games against your division, 4 games against a division in the other conference, then I think it's 4 games against a division in the same conference, and then probably 3 games based on your rank in your division, now that we're at 17 games instead of 16? And this is all known in advance. Why is there so much freak-out about the schedule all over? Or is it just the social media world, combined with the fact that I'm finally paying attention to the NFL again?

i think both. Social media world writes articles about things they see written in the bathroom stalls nowadays. And what's worse they take like 1 bit of content and stretch that into multiple pages. And yeah same I'm hyper paying attention now and what's worse things are at a bit of a lull. After the draft I DO want more content and there really isn't much. I think they are making a big deal about the schedules because there's nothing else to write about. As for myself, I'm like...it's a schedule...they will play games. whatever. When they play the games then i will be interested. We don't know how good or bad any of these teams will be yet but that's the fun of it.

Granted I am always interested in anything you guys write here. Just not a hundred facebook articles.

[CrimsonFox]

NFL network is playing an old Super bowl with the Redskins killing the Bills. Am surprised there isn't a mass protest outside their offices.

[Passacaglia]

At least now I don't have to think about how that was the last time the Lions won a playoff game.

[CrimsonFox]

I'm both annoyed and laughing at the several articles in the past week with headlines of
"Harrison Butker Breaks His Silence on Commencement Speech Backlash"

lol no! Seriously he has not ever shut up about it...

[albionmoonlight]

"Butker furious at Woke Mob for not cancelling him yet."

[Atocep]

"Butker furious at Woke Mob for not cancelling him yet."

It's the soft launch of a post playing political career. Gotta keep it in the headlines as long as possible.

[albionmoonlight]

So I've noticed something. The explosion of online NFL content roughly corresponded to the Drew Brees Saints being good and (more to the point) relative and interesting. You got actual analysis from the national talking heads because it was a team worth discussing.

No more. I have noticed the difference as I've listened to national coverage of the Saints based on the draft, free agency, offseason analysis, etc. It has all been very mailed-in. Clearly just google the team so you can say something generic and then move on to the next team.

I don't blame the national media. A small-market team with a QB with negative rizz expected to win 5-ish games *isn't* nationally interesting. If you are looking for corners to cut, I can see why you do it there.

But it's another post-Brees bummer. It isn't that they suck. It's that they aren't even interesting enough to decide whether they suck.

[QuikSand]

My enjoyment of football on a level well beyond fantasy leagues, DFS, etc has greatly grown in the last few years, in large part to committing to well-done and insightful podcasts.

This episode of the Athletic's pod is a great example of my jam, now.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">��️New Athletic Football Show!��️<a href="https://twitter.com/theStevenRuiz?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@theStevenRuiz</a> joins me for some lingering questions from 2023 about the AFC North. <br><br>How good is the *rest* of Pittsburgh's roster? What happened to Big Lou's defense? Was Watson's late &quot;improvement&quot; real? And more. <a href="https://t.co/75oCPB9HNa">https://t.co/75oCPB9HNa</a></p>&mdash; Robert Mays (@robertmays) <a href="https://twitter.com/robertmays/status/1796198379158220925?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 30, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Please do go on, and tell me more about whether the Ravens' 2024 plan at right guard is adequate. You have my drive time attention, fellas.

[GrantDawg]

Chicago Bears are going to be the team for Hard Knocks this season. Good choice.

Sent from my SM-S916U using Tapatalk

[albionmoonlight]

Justin Jefferson 4 years for $140 with $110 guaranteed.

Feels right.

[albionmoonlight]

So in terms of paying players, the S tier is QB. And the A tier is WR, Edge, OT, and CB.

All of these positions, of course, involving either passing or stopping the pass.

I wonder if there is going to be any sort of moneyball-esq reaction where some teams start to try to pick up undervalued positions. The best run-blocking guard in the league, or the best run-stuffing DT in the league have to be worth *something* right? Can a smart team make a run by finding enough value there?

Or is the pass just so much better of a strategy than the run that it really is impossible to build a successful team another way?

[Danny]

Guards went for crazy money this offseason. Linebacker and safety seem to be some solid value posotions.

[Honolulu_Blue]

My enjoyment of football on a level well beyond fantasy leagues, DFS, etc has greatly grown in the last few years, in large part to committing to well-done and insightful podcasts.

This episode of the Athletic's pod is a great example of my jam, now.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">��️New Athletic Football Show!��️<a href="https://twitter.com/theStevenRuiz?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@theStevenRuiz</a> joins me for some lingering questions from 2023 about the AFC North. <br><br>How good is the *rest* of Pittsburgh's roster? What happened to Big Lou's defense? Was Watson's late &quot;improvement&quot; real? And more. <a href="https://t.co/75oCPB9HNa">https://t.co/75oCPB9HNa</a></p>&mdash; Robert Mays (@robertmays) <a href="https://twitter.com/robertmays/status/1796198379158220925?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">May 30, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Please do go on, and tell me more about whether the Ravens' 2024 plan at right guard is adequate. You have my drive time attention, fellas.

Yes! I love the Athletic Football show. That and The Ringer NFL show tend to be my go-to’s for the NFL along with the Bill Barnwell and Mina Kimes shows. There are a couple of local Lions podcasts I enjoy, as well.

[Brian Swartz]

I think they are making a big deal about the schedules because there's nothing else to write about. As for myself, I'm like...it's a schedule...they will play games. whatever. When they play the games then i will be interested. We don't know how good or bad any of these teams will be yet but that's the fun of it.

I agree with this. It's like the Too Early Top 25 in college, or doing power rankings for the next year immediately after the Super Bowl, and then again after the draft ... filling the appetite of people like some of my former co-workers who were depressed most of the year. Football season is the only time they felt good about life, the rest was just the tragedy you had to live through until it was time again.

[dubb93]

Pre-season is the only time most of my favorite sports teams have a shot at a championship.

[sovereignstar v2]

Pre-season is the only time most of my favorite sports teams have a shot at a championship.

Hope springs eternal (https://forums.operationsports.com/fofc/showthread.php?t=52154)

[CrimsonFox]

lol

[albionmoonlight]

A lot of us grew up rooting for teams where the phrase "not yet mathematically eliminated" was a common late season refrain.

[Brian Swartz]

If the Lions could have a good year, then it can happen for any franchise ... eventually. Just sayin'.

[JPhillips]

I'm a Bengals/Reds fan, so yeah I understand the pain.

But miracles (Joe Burrow) do happen!

[Bobble]

I'm a Bengals/Reds fan, so yeah I understand the pain.

But miracles (Joe Burrow) do happen!

I went from Bengals/Reds to Lions/Tigers. Oh, my!

[cartman]

If the Lions could have a good year, then it can happen for any franchise ... eventually. Just sayin'.

except the Washington Generals

[Danny]

The key to turn it around is to bite them knee caps

[Brian Swartz]

I thought it was to wear a diaper ...

[QuikSand]

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Browns?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Browns</a> announce they've extended the contracts of Kevin Stefanski and Andrew Berry. Details coming soon.</p>&mdash; Mary Kay Cabot (@MaryKayCabot) <a href="https://twitter.com/MaryKayCabot/status/1798367161116934316?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 5, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Well, I think that I happen to more or less agree with this move and agree it's the right thing for the franchise right now, but... there's an interesting adn compelling case that this front office has just recently executed the worst combination of trade-and-contract in NFL history, and they are getting extensions for it?

[Danny]

Obviously a terrible move but theyve been winning in spite of it. They deserve extensions I think given this is the Browns

[GrantDawg]

This is an impressive stat:
<samp class="EmbedCode-container"><code class="EmbedCode-code"><blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">If Corey Linsley retires, he finishes his career with 1,572 straight pass block snaps without allowing a sack, including playoffs (PFF).<br><br>It’s the longest active streak in the NFL without allowing a sack<br><br>His last sack allowed was in Week 10 of 2020 <a href="https://t.co/wrfnkIDIVq">https://t.co/wrfnkIDIVq</a></p>&mdash; Doug Clawson (@doug_clawson) <a href="https://twitter.com/doug_clawson/status/1798404900033864181?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 5, 2024</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> </code></samp>

[GrantDawg]

The Falcons get a slap on the wrist for the "tampering" charges. The league took a 5th round pick for next year and a $250,000 fine for the team making travel arraignments to come to the Falcon's facilities with Cousins and two other players that had already agreed to contracts. To call that tampering when the players had already agreed to terms is a real stretch of the word, but whatever. But whoever the source was (and it was definitely Mike Flourio ass) that kept saying the Falcons where getting "big penalties" and putting this on the level of the Miami Dolphins tampering look like the idiots they are. Mike Florio's crush on Kirk and his butt-hurt over him leaving the Vikings I think may have warped his brain.

[thesloppy]

Florio seems like a tool. It is impressive that he somehow managed to parlay a crappy gossip site into an actual gig as a talking head.

[Honolulu_Blue]

Very true, but I have been visiting his site multiple times a day for decades, so he's doing something right!

[thesloppy]

Very true, but I have been visiting his site multiple times a day for decades, so he's doing something right!


Oh me too, I've got it bookmarked, even though it's been like a decade since that site had anything resembling a 'scoop'. Somewhere in there he convinced himself (and whomever pulls the strings) that his opinion was actually what people were coming for.

[albionmoonlight]

Trevor Lawrence extension.

275/5

142 fully guaranteed.

[albionmoonlight]

dola:

Makes the Goff deal look pretty much where you would expect.

And the price for Dak keeps climbing higher with each QB that inks before him.

[GrantDawg]

dola:

Makes the Goff deal look pretty much where you would expect.

And the price for Dak keeps climbing higher with each QB that inks before him.
Dak eventual deal is going to be fascinating.

[flere-imsaho]

By this time next year, Goff's deal is going to look like an absolute bargain.