The Official 2015-2016 NBA Regular Season Thread [Archive] - Page 2

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ColtCrazy

12-06-2015, 12:21 AM

When I was growing up, my Dad got Colts tickets that became our father-son bonding. We're giving them up at the end of the year since my son is basketball through and through. We bought a mini-package to the Pacers for all 3 generations to go to. Our first game is the 8th...against Golden St. My son took my phone while we were out shopping to watch the gamecast of GSW-TOR and was jumping up and down when the Warriors won. He's hoping they beat the Nets and come to town undefeated. Frankly, I'm pumped for the game too.

Brian Swartz

12-06-2015, 04:47 AM

I don't see how Curry isn't the MVP again if he doesn't like miss 2 months with another ankle injury or forget how to shoot(not happening) or something. As far as I'm considered there's him .... then a huge gap ... then everyone else. I don't think anyone else is even in the conversation.

The Spurs meanwhile are also en route to another 60+ win season, even with Aldridge having a bad season (not just surface-stats, hes still really struggling). Kawhi has become a legitimate 2-way star, i would never have expected him to become quite this good.

I don't think Aldridge is doing that badly. His defense has been better than a lot of people said it would, and offensively he's having good games and bad games. For example, Danny Green is doing a lot worse, he absolutely cannot buy a shot right now. San Antonio is excelling on defense, but to have any realistic chance to beat Golden State they'll definitely need all cylinders firing on offense. A lot of work to do there, not just shooting but the whole thing ... too early to be worried about IMO.

miami_fan

12-06-2015, 04:54 PM

Austin Rivers? Is he only in the league because of Doc? Or does he play some impressive defense that keeps him around? Because he is awful on offense.

I don't know if you are talking about the game last night specifically but man was he brutal against the Magic on both ends of the court. The thing about Rivers is he goes completely against the stereotype of the coach's son. His basketball IQ is shocking low.

Groundhog

12-06-2015, 05:00 PM

Rivers had a bit of a hot streak during the playoffs last year, but outside of that I have seen absolutely nothing about him that tells me he should be seeing minutes on a half-decent NBA team. Reasonably athletic, but no real skills outside of that, and a horrendously poor decision maker.

BishopMVP

12-07-2015, 06:16 PM

Curry is the shoe in to win MVP again but it's gonna be him vs Kawhi for the award. Perhaps Westbrook if OKC ever stops playing like crap.No one's touching Curry, but I'd probably have Paul George #2 slightly ahead of Kawhi. Just great as a fan to see him come back at full strength - I only hope Durant can join him a.s.a.p. Also, LeBron should probably still be #2, but that's boring.

Article on Philly and the process here - How much patience will Sixer fans and the NBA have for 'The Process'? (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14287780/how-much-patience-sixer-fans-nba-process)

murrayyyyy

12-07-2015, 06:48 PM

So anyone got an idea what Philly is doing now? Seems strange going out and hiring Colangelo as their Chairman of Basketball Operations. Is he there to handcuff Hinkie?

nol

12-07-2015, 07:22 PM

So anyone got an idea what Philly is doing now? Seems strange going out and hiring Colangelo as their Chairman of Basketball Operations. Is he there to handcuff Hinkie?

Maybe but he could also be a figurehead who's there to make peace with the agents who hate Hinkie.

bhlloy

12-07-2015, 08:35 PM

BishopMVP

12-07-2015, 09:37 PM

What's going on with Phoenix? Huge 4th quarter comeback tonight, but Markieff Morris only 7 minutes after a DNP-CD last game. He does have a very cheap contract (4/$32) partially due to the weird deal Phoenix gave him & his brother, but he also seems like a complete asshole and a little crazy, so I'm not sure there's a big trade market for him.

Btw, Jon Leuer's my leading candidate for most outrageous dollar amount this summer.

Chief Rum

12-08-2015, 12:06 AM

Randle and Russell benched in LA. I'm convinced that Scott feels like the problem with his team is you just aren't allowed to haze these damn uppity rookies any more. Meanwhile Kobe goes 3-17 a game for the rest of eternity.

It astounds me that a franchise with the rich tradition of the Lakers can be as clueless and terrible as they are at selecting coaches.

BishopMVP

12-08-2015, 12:49 AM

Maybe but he could also be a figurehead who's there to make peace with the agents who hate Hinkie.Or to make peace between Brown and Hinkie, or Hinkie and ownership. The summer rumor was that Hinkie and Brown didn't want Embiid to show up at Summer League, but assumed the other would take care of it and blamed each other when he showed up (and when he was drinking gallons of shirley temple's each day at the hotel or dunking and landing on his foot before he was medically cleared.)

Also, maybe Okafor should've just sat out a couple more games. Damn :lol: SB Nation NBA on Twitter: "The 76ers lost by 51. And Boban Marjanovic did this to Jahlil Okafor. https://t.co/Bm9oo7O8ue https://t.co/YSOmgYDc1r" (https://twitter.com/SBNationNBA/status/674055766408589312)

Groundhog

12-08-2015, 02:09 AM

7'3 Spurs rookie Boban Marjanovic is toying with Jahlil Okafor like he's a little kid - SBNation.com (https://t.co/Bm9oo7O8ue) https://t.co/YSOmgYDc1r"[/url]

Funny as hell, but Marjanovic travelled...

Neon_Chaos

12-08-2015, 02:35 AM

Boban also made Psycho T reconsider his sport of choice early in the season...

Boban Marjanovic scares Tyler Hansbrough NBA - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_XDH_Z7Vi8)

RainMaker

12-08-2015, 05:22 AM

Was everyone at that game a Spurs fan? Took me a second to realize it wasn't in San Antonio. The crowd erupted.

RainMaker

12-08-2015, 05:23 AM

miami_fan

12-08-2015, 05:41 AM

Maybe but he could also be a figurehead who's there to make peace with the agents who hate Hinkie.

I can't see anyway that Colangelo is just a figurehead. I do think he will come in and be the adult in the room for basketball operations.

RainMaker

12-08-2015, 05:54 AM

Sounds like other owners wanted the commissioner to step in.

NBA owners lobbied league office for Philadelphia 76ers changes (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14317233/nba-owners-lobbied-league-office-philadelphia-76ers-changes)

whomario

12-08-2015, 05:58 AM

Boban also made Psycho T reconsider his sport of choice early in the season...

Boban Marjanovic scares Tyler Hansbrough NBA - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_XDH_Z7Vi8)

Marjanovic is also pretty good and shows way more versatility than i thought he would. Imo he will be a factor in the POs and play good minutes post-Duncan.

murrayyyyy

12-08-2015, 08:16 AM

Funny as hell, but Marjanovic travelled...

Baby crab walk. Didn't watch the game but I'm sure the refs were ignoring anything that might have stopped the clock and probably would have had a running clock in the 4th like they do with 5 year old kids if they would have been allowed to do it.

Anyone know why Okafor didn't start? Or is this just more punishment from his outside activities?

albionmoonlight

12-08-2015, 09:03 AM

It seems like the 76ers's big sin is being open about their strategy. Other teams have had really bad stretches, but as long as they made noises about caring about hitting the 8th seed in any given year, everyone was fine with it.

nol

12-08-2015, 11:57 AM

I can't see anyway that Colangelo is just a figurehead. I do think he will come in and be the adult in the room for basketball operations.

Right, and that means he'll identify and go after inexpensive locker room veterans in free agency, which was more or less going to happen in 2016-17 anyway.

JPhillips

12-08-2015, 12:13 PM

Or to make peace between Brown and Hinkie, or Hinkie and ownership. The summer rumor was that Hinkie and Brown didn't want Embiid to show up at Summer League, but assumed the other would take care of it and blamed each other when he showed up (and when he was drinking gallons of shirley temple's each day at the hotel or dunking and landing on his foot before he was medically cleared.)

Also, maybe Okafor should've just sat out a couple more games. Damn :lol: SB Nation NBA on Twitter: "The 76ers lost by 51. And Boban Marjanovic did this to Jahlil Okafor. https://t.co/Bm9oo7O8ue https://t.co/YSOmgYDc1r" (https://twitter.com/SBNationNBA/status/674055766408589312)

He could have also passed to a wide open cutter coming down the lane.

BishopMVP

12-08-2015, 01:33 PM

Funny as hell, but Marjanovic travelled...When you're throwing ball fakes at rim height in a 50-pt blowout no one's looking at your feet.
Anyone know why Okafor didn't start? Or is this just more punishment from his outside activities?They claim "illness" and he'll be back in next game, but I'm not sure what kind of cold you could have where you're healthy enough to play 29 minutes but not start. They have been trying to separate Okafor and Noel a lot more recently.
Sounds like other owners wanted the commissioner to step in.

NBA owners lobbied league office for Philadelphia 76ers changes (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14317233/nba-owners-lobbied-league-office-philadelphia-76ers-changes)Screw them. 12 of them voted against lottery reform at the last minute, and every indication is that this is just more bitching from small market owners who are missing out on like $1-$2 mil each they could be receiving if Philly was much more profitable. Go bitch at Prokhorov, Buss or Dolan for running their even bigger market teams into the ground too, or better yet don't move teams to the the 45th biggest (from the 14th), 48th biggest, or 53rd biggest media markets and then complain about other owners not maximizing their revenue potential.

Ajaxab

12-08-2015, 02:51 PM

Watched the Sixers-Spurs in its entirety last night. Never before have I seen a pro team shoot 2 air balls on the same possession and 8 air balls in a game. A loss by 51 to a San Antonio team without Leonard, Duncan, or Ginobili stepping onto the floor. Brutal...

kingfc22

12-08-2015, 06:58 PM

Warriors drop 62 on Indy in 1.5 quarters so far.

murrayyyyy

12-08-2015, 07:15 PM

Warriors drop 62 on Indy in 1.5 quarters so far.

Well Thompson hitting 8-10 from beyond 3 helps a little. How bad does it have to be when you shoot 42-43-73% and you are down 19 at the half. Warriors outscored the 76ers last night in just one half by 11 points.

heybrad

12-08-2015, 07:43 PM

When I work from home I'll have First Take on for nothing more than sports background noise. Today they were spouting off about how Golden State hadn't faced anyone of Paul George's caliber and expected the streak to come to an end tonight.

wustin

12-08-2015, 10:51 PM

Indiana plays the same style of smallball GSW does, the problem is that their bench isn't as good and they don't have playmakers who can keep up the pace. If and whenever Paul George can develop into a point-forward (kinda like how McGrady did at Houston) that team is going to be scary.

Young Drachma

12-08-2015, 10:56 PM

Gonna take the W's having a bad night and some other team shooting lights out to take 'em down. They're firing on all cylinders.

Groundhog

12-08-2015, 11:31 PM

Paul George is having a sneaky-amazing season so far.

AENeuman

12-09-2015, 11:23 AM

BishopMVP

12-09-2015, 02:10 PM

So what do you think, the Warriors streak is at 23 or 27?26. :p

murrayyyyy

12-09-2015, 03:30 PM

Hornets' Jefferson suspended for violating drug program | NBA.com (http://www.nba.com/2015/news/12/09/hornets-al-jefferson-suspended-five-games.ap/index.html)

Guess Al didn't lose all that weight by cutting out fried chicken after all...

stevew

12-09-2015, 03:40 PM

The Sixers are the NBAs answer to the Trump campaign. Most people are appalled by what's going on but nobody can stop talking about it

BishopMVP

12-09-2015, 03:42 PM

What a weird stat for a 12-9 team considering how many NBA titles the Celtics won in the time frame.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">DOUBLE-DIGIT CELTICS WINS THROUGH 21 GAMES (Last 50 seasons) 2007-08: 16 1984-85: 14 1966-67: 13 1990-91: 12 2015-16: 11</p>— Sean Grande (@SeanGrandePBP) <a href="https://twitter.com/SeanGrandePBP/status/674101069874597888">December 8, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

wustin

12-09-2015, 05:15 PM

So what do you think, the Warriors streak is at 23 or 27?

Also, I was remembering the time warriors owner was booed while Chris Mullen was being honored. At the time, they said it was the Bogut trade that did it. Funny how things work out.

Why did Warrior fans boo? | ProBasketballTalk (http://nba.nbcsports.com/2012/03/20/why-did-warrior-fans-boo/)

Klay is questionable for the Celtics game. If they have a chance to lose, it will be that game if Curry can have a bad night. Though most likely Curry will probably drop 50 seeing as he would need to pick up the slack for Klay.

murrayyyyy

12-09-2015, 08:57 PM

The Sixers are the NBAs answer to the Trump campaign. Most people are appalled by what's going on but nobody can stop talking about it

Well one major difference is Trump is in the lead still unlike the 76ers

BishopMVP

12-10-2015, 01:11 PM

The ultimate "No, no, NO, YESSSSSSS!!!!!" shot

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/wm9BuCS8eBk" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

"Very unlikely, since normally Matt Barnes will drive really far to take a shot" (stolen from Deadspin comments)

wustin

12-11-2015, 09:46 PM

anyone watch the warriors game?

Horrible officiating on both sides. A lot of no calls on the warriors, refs reversed a call and gave Curry a reach-in foul (his 4th) during free throws in the 3rd quarter when he was 5 feet away from the ball. Sullinger missed a free throw, and the refs let him re-do it. A bunch of questionable Curry out of bounds calls they didn't show any replays of.

Celtics could've won it but Isiah Thomas kinda threw it away a few times. The game really showcased how disadvantaged being 5'9 can be.

heybrad

12-11-2015, 09:47 PM

I watched it. You summed it up pretty well but it was still a pretty exciting game. The 4th foul on Curry was stupid and changed the whole flow.

Groundhog

12-11-2015, 09:50 PM

JonInMiddleGA

12-11-2015, 10:09 PM

both short, tired legs.

I see what you did there

:D

Vince, Pt. II

12-11-2015, 10:44 PM

nol

12-12-2015, 02:47 AM

Draymond Green may have breached the rare ceiling of being a top 30 player with his 24-11-8-5-5 performance tonight. Seriously though, in the last couple close Warriors games I've watched (Jazz and Celtics) he's wrestled a rebound away from a seven-footer when the game was in the balance. He's absolutely an all-star and I wouldn't blink if he was named first or second team all-NBA this season.

RainMaker

12-12-2015, 04:15 AM

I'd say he's top 20. The fact he can defend every position is so valuable these days. I think he's the 2nd most important player on that team.

BishopMVP

12-12-2015, 04:33 AM

Warriors were lucky to keep the streak today. Celtics didn't exactly execute so well down the stretch offensively, but still had about 3 good chances to win that game that didn't go down. Thomas was tired, you could see it in his miss at the end of regulation and the open 3 he missed in the 2nd OT - both short, tired legs.Oh man, I love Brad Stevens and IT4, but I was screaming at the TV to call timeout once it got down to 6-7 seconds left in regulation and IT was clearly setting up for the hero long jumper. Not that the result turned out any better when he drove the next time we got into that situation, but I want him driving every time. Reminded me a little of bad Paul Pierce when he would spend more time worrying about getting his shot off exactly at the end of quarter buzzer instead of trying to shoot in rhythm or attack early and see if a hole opens up on D or he can draw a foul.

We also had AB cutting to the rim for the backdoor alley-oop win at the end of OT1 (iirc) after Draymond jumped Kelly's pop, but Turner didn't see it.Celtics could've won it but Isiah Thomas kinda threw it away a few times. The game really showcased how disadvantaged being 5'9 can be.Every game shows that, which is why his game is so insane. I don't understand how he gets any shots off near the rim, let alone takes 40% of his shots in the paint and finishes them at an above-average clip (http://cdn.barstoolsports.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/09/Screen-Shot-2015-12-09-at-7.33.20-AM.png?7685cf). He's far from a perfect player, and this game completely showed why we need that go to guy (DMC? Gordon Hayward? Danilo? Shit, if Kristaps wasn't showing this well I might even be trying to talk myself into a Carmelo trade) before we're a real threat, but make no mistake - we're nowhere close to this level without Isaiah. He's the only guy on the roster other than Rozier (who I still love, but has been atrocious in his regular season minutes so far), and maybe Jerebko/Crowder when they play smallball 4, who can actually beat his man and get the defense moving. I coach a lot of lacrosse, which is basically the same as basketball on offense, at a somewhat smaller and thus less athletic school than all the other top 10-15 teams in the state, and I've always said all we need is one athletic kid who can beat his man and draw the double. As long as the other kids aren't complete zeros, anyone can attack a closeout (example A - Jae Crowder), be taught how to cut vs a distracted defender, or attack a 4v3, but everything is predicated on that initial dodger being able to break down a set defender and get the defense moving, and IT4's that guy. (Marcus Smart is actually decent at this as well, but I'm not sure if it's sustainable in the playoffs because he's such a bad shooter/finisher off the dribble I think some smart team eventually will just stop leaving anybody else to help on him even if he gets a step. And obviously my binky Rozier's first step alone gives him the potential to do it if he learns the game, but that's not happening this year.)

Btw, I did miss close to the first 3 quarters due to another obligation, and I guess he played 15 minutes then without killing us, but holy shit we had James Young playing crunch time minutes. And Evan Turner at the same time! Plus Crowder at times on O and IT4 almost all the time on D! I know Golden State has injuries to Klay/Barnes, we clearly cared a little more (and had a legitimate home crowd - even in Year 1 of the Big 3 I'm not sure people were that excited for a regular season game), but we were there toe to toe with the best NBA team in at least a decade while on our 5th/6th string shooting guard and playing not a single above-average shooter. Brad Stevens is a wizard, and clearly merely playing hard makes good things happen. Don't care one bit we lost, and seeing as GS is my 2nd favorite NBA team as long as we pushed them to the limit I'm secretly a little happy they won and have a chance to keep going for 34 vs. what would've been a relatively meaningless win for us long term.

nol

12-12-2015, 12:21 PM

I'd say he's top 20. The fact he can defend every position is so valuable these days. I think he's the 2nd most important player on that team.

That was the case last season, and with Klay scoring less and Draymond being improved in every facet of the game it's not even debatable now.

Last night's game is evidence that even if Klay isn't shooting lights out, the threat of him still opens things up offensively, but I don't think there are 5 players on the planet who could've stepped in for Draymond this season and kept the Warriors undefeated to this point.

In 76ers news, looks like the immediate results of the Jerry Colangelo hiring is that the team's looking to bring in Mike D'antoni as an associate head coach. I've thought for a while that there's some inefficiency in making one guy the undisputed head coach when there are coaches who are clearly best suited to have an offensive/defensive coordinator role, so that could be interesting. Also, there's this:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" lang="en"><p lang="und" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/shirleytempledidthis?src=hash">#shirleytempledidthis</a> <a href="https://t.co/F7lHa1GABT">pic.twitter.com/F7lHa1GABT</a></p>— Joel Embiid (@JoelEmbiid) <a href="https://twitter.com/JoelEmbiid/status/675546752498405376">December 12, 2015</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

whomario

12-12-2015, 08:12 PM

As much as the Spurs are "struggling" on offense (aside from Aldridge still acclimating you also have Danny Greene basically shooting 30% from the field), their defense has been amazing.

The Hawks just scored just 25 in the first half against them, shooting 9-37.

lungs

12-12-2015, 09:49 PM

Vince, Pt. II

12-12-2015, 10:08 PM

The Bucks played a great game; Monroe was fantastic, and Mayo hit the open shots he needed to. The crowd up there was amazing as well - it sounded like a soccer match with all the chanting and singing during the game. Fun to watch. I'll be sorry to see that sort of crowd presence disappear on the road now that the streak is over.

It was strange to see Klay so off; he hadn't played since Tuesday, but appeared just as gassed as everyone else, missing almost every shot short. I have to imagine he's still not 100% from the ankle injury.

wustin

12-12-2015, 10:09 PM

Fun fact: No NBA team has ever gone 7-0 in 7 straight road games while away from home.

Brian Swartz

12-13-2015, 03:27 AM

So the Warriors are obviously done now. They are just four games ahead of the rest of the NBA, are only on pace for a measly 79 wins now, and the magic number for making the playoffs is still 56 with over a quarter of the season gone by. They really need to get with it. In all seriousness ...

Good call. Bucks win!

Indeed. I thought the fatigue point was good initially, but still thought they'd get by Milwaukee simply due to the fact that I didn't think it was kind of team that would give them trouble. Wrong was I.

As much as the Spurs are "struggling" on offense (aside from Aldridge still acclimating you also have Danny Greene basically shooting 30% from the field), their defense has been amazing.

This. Green is IMO the biggest problem. Read a blog analysis the other day that showed that he's basically getting the same shots as last year -- he's just not making them. Simmons is another young player that looks like he'll be a contributor(where do they keep finding these guys?) but I think the best version of the Spurs still has to include Green finding his shot due to the value of his defense. If he doesn't find it though, he's not going to be a starter by playoff time.

On the defense thing, a couple of points stand out. One, San Antonio has actually led for more fourth-quarter minutes than Golden State(which IMO makes the Warriors streak even that much more impressive -- they've had a number of games where they've just said oh ... this is a real game ... ok let's score 20 points here real quick and take the lead). Two, the record for Defensive Efficiency(since '96 when the NBA started tracking it) was San Antonio in '03 at 91.6. Last year, for example, nobody was under 98. Right now, the Spurs are at 91.9, with the caveat that it's been against a pretty darn weak schedule. But still, that's a rather astonishing 4.5 better than the rest of the league.

Right now, here's how I see the league:

1. Golden State(duh)

Big Gap. Strike that, make that enormous gap. As in the Brad Pitt 'Fifty Feet of Crap' scene from Moneyball, sized gap.

2. San Antonio(duh #2)

Moderate Sized Gap

3. Cleveland(when healthy)/Oklahoma City

Moderate Gap

4. Throw about a dozen others in the hopper here, depending on what happens.

Caveat: I'm almost always wrong about the NBA.

I'm still fascinated by the West's relative struggles, and how much parity there is right now. Right in the middle of it are my hometown Pistons. I think they could have homecourt for the first round of the playoffs ... or they could also finish 12th or so in the East. Or anywhere in between. 90% of the team I have no real clue if they are going to win or not. And that's without stuff like that ridiculous Barnes shot that somebody was kind enough to post a video of.

Very entertaining and unpredictable NBA season so far I think.

Fun fact: No NBA team has ever gone 7-0 in 7 straight road games while away from home.

It'd be hard to do so in road games that weren't away from home. Yes, I'm a jerk sometimes :P

whomario

12-13-2015, 04:44 AM

I'll be sorry to see that sort of crowd presence disappear on the road now that the streak is over.

The Warriors are still the No1 Team in the league and en route to the elusive 72 (or even 73) wins, i am pretty sure the target on their back will not be all that much smaller the rest of the way ;)

wustin

12-13-2015, 04:47 AM

Indeed. I thought the fatigue point was good initially, but still thought they'd get by Milwaukee simply due to the fact that I didn't think it was kind of team that would give them trouble. Wrong was I.

At this point I don't really think it matters which team it is (except for maybe the Sixers and Lakers), they're going to play very hard when it's against Golden State. Kinda like how in college sports when a top 25 school visits a mid major/unranked team.

BishopMVP

12-13-2015, 05:14 AM

Hard to see the Warriors winning tomorrow against the Bucks. Iguodala, Curry and Green played 44, 47, and 50 minutes respectively tonight, Thompson and Barnes are probably not playing, and it's the second half of a back-to-back at the end of a long 7-game road trip.Yeah, no way you could expect a team to win a game 8 states away the next night after that epic game ;) (Underrated advantage of having a deep team with no superstar - Celtics play phenomenally well on the 2nd half of regular season back to backs compared to the average NBA team.)
The crowd up there was amazing as well - it sounded like a soccer match with all the chanting and singing during the game. Fun to watch. I'll be sorry to see that sort of crowd presence disappear on the road now that the streak is over.I wonder if any of that is left over from Bogut's initiative (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/65688147.html). Still one of the coolest things I've seen from an NBA player (of course an Aussie thought of it!) and something that should be done by every team who doesn't sell out most games. Energy is contagious and most people are followers... get the right 20-30 people in the right seats and you could change the entire dynamic of a 20,000 seat arena. It's tricking people into cheering more initially, but guaranteed they'd have a better experience overall.
Draymond Green may have breached the rare ceiling of being a top 30 player with his 24-11-8-5-5 performance tonight. Seriously though, in the last couple close Warriors games I've watched (Jazz and Celtics) he's wrestled a rebound away from a seven-footer when the game was in the balance. He's absolutely an all-star and I wouldn't blink if he was named first or second team all-NBA this season.Last night's game is evidence that even if Klay isn't shooting lights out, the threat of him still opens things up offensively, but I don't think there are 5 players on the planet who could've stepped in for Draymond this season and kept the Warriors undefeated to this point.Unless I'm blanking on someone, between his ability to play both sides of the pick and roll, rebound, make the right decision every time on 4v3's once teams double Curry, and hit open 3's there aren't 5 players on the planet who could fill Draymond's role, there's one, and his name is LeBron. (Maybe Paul Millsap? Boris Diaw if he actually worked out? Maaaaaaaybe Chris Bosh? Could Anthony Davis pull it off?) Not to mention the effect his swagger and cockiness has on his teammates - I watched Steph Curry at Davidson and his first couple years on GS, even the first half of last season, and while I don't want to say he was meek, he was kind of a nice guy/silent assassin. He's started acting like a cocky dick these last 12 months, and I put 10% of that on being MVP/healthy and 90% on being best friends with Draymond.

As far as whether that makes Draymond top 20, top 30, or a "max player" I don't know. I do know he's a perfect fit with those teammates in that system, and wouldn't be nearly as good on a number of NBA teams. But really how many players transcend teammates and system... Curry, LeBron, Durant, motivated DeMarcus Cousins, I want to say Anthony Davis but his net numbers were shockingly bad when missing any competent perimeter player early this year... Kawhi/Paul George? Jimmy Butler? Chris Bosh. Russell Westbrook. Millsap/Horford? Maybe CP3 and Blake Griffin if they stopped being such bitter old men? Healthy Kyrie??? (Triple question mark there because I legitimately forget what healthy, ball-dominant Kyrie looks like.) Kyle Lowry?

Biggest question about naming him all-NBA is what position you throw him under. Does he really qualify as a center?

BishopMVP

12-13-2015, 05:41 AM

the record for Defensive Efficiency(since '96 when the NBA started tracking it) was San Antonio in '03 at 91.6. Last year, for example, nobody was under 98. Right now, the Spurs are at 91.9, with the caveat that it's been against a pretty darn weak schedule. But still, that's a rather astonishing 4.5 better than the rest of the league.

Team Season Finder | Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/tsl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=team_totals&lg_id=NBA&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&c1stat=def_rtg&c1comp=lt&c1val=95&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=wins)
The Warriors are still the No1 Team in the league and en route to the elusive 72 (or even 73) wins, i am pretty sure the target on their back will not be all that much smaller the rest of the way ;)Players-wise, no. Fan-wise, yes. I was getting texts from my mom about the game. Figured I'd be be the asshole hanging out and watching the game in the corner at the holiday party and instead the girl I picked up demanded to know if the game would be on before agreeing to go... It had legitimately gone beyond something casual/fairweather fans were excited for and crossed into the cultural zeitgeist here in Boston. I heard it was the highest rated regular season game since 1990 when Larry Bird was playing Magic Johnson in one of these games (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxTryUZs_XE).

wustin

12-13-2015, 05:58 AM

Biggest question about naming him all-NBA is what position you throw him under. Does he really qualify as a center?

He would be a small forward. If he keeps up the way he's been playing, he'll probably make it to 3rd team all-NBA. His competition would be Lebron, George, and Durant.

Another fun fact: Draymond is ranked in the top 10 (8th) for total assists in the Big Ten conference. He's the only big man among those 10 players. Kinda crazy how he dropped to the second round given he was a statsheet stuffer in college as well.

I looked up his draft profile from 2012. Wonder how much this was wrong because of poor scouting or Draymond just improved a shit ton.

Weaknesses: One of those great college basketball players that doesn't excel in any one particular area ... Tweener, undersized for a physical forward yet lacks the athleticism of a wing ... Lacks explosiveness, agility, elusiveness and quickness off the bounce ... Under the rim finisher, which is troublesome when you consider his size ... Not a threat to shake his defender off the dribble ... Minimal upside ... Vulnerable defending quicker guards on the perimeter ... Could stand to drop some weight ...

Neon_Chaos

12-13-2015, 06:21 AM

He would be a small forward. If he keeps up the way he's been playing, he'll probably make it to 3rd team all-NBA. His competition would be Lebron, George, and Durant.

Another fun fact: Draymond is ranked in the top 10 (8th) for total assists in the Big Ten conference. He's the only big man among those 10 players. Kinda crazy how he dropped to the second round given he was a statsheet stuffer in college as well.

I looked up his draft profile from 2012. Wonder how much this was wrong because of poor scouting or Draymond just improved a shit ton.

I would think that part of his evolution as a player is the team and system he found himself in. Remember, coming in to last year, David Lee was still the starter, and Draymond filled in the spot when Lee was out for a considerably amount of time. Steve Kerr's decision to really groom Green last year really did wonders. Would Draymond have ever been given the opportunity to grow as a player in any other situation?

BishopMVP

12-13-2015, 06:49 AM

He would be a small forward. If he keeps up the way he's been playing, he'll probably make it to 3rd team all-NBA. His competition would be Lebron, George, and Durant.:lol: Really? When does he ever play with 2 teammates bigger than him? As far as classical positional breakdowns even matter these days he's either a 4 or a 5 for his team. And of course the real answer is that he's one of the prototypes for that future Jerry West? foresaw where everyone would be 6'8 and positionless.

(Btw, when will we stop referring to player's height and start referring to their wingspan?)I looked up his draft profile from 2012. Wonder how much this was wrong because of poor scouting or Draymond just improved a shit ton.He did lose some weight/turn some fat into muscle and put in a shit ton more time than the average player in the film room, but it is fascinating. He really doesn't stand out in one area, he is shorter than, alhough not undersized for a "physical forward" (again, wingspan > height). Lacks the athleticism of wings or defending quicker guards is hilariously wrong (even if you assume that profile considered him a 3, not the post player he is). But while he can destroy any defender he has an angle on due to his understanding of leverage and that low center of gravity, he really isn't a threat to initiate against a set defender. He does have an extremely low release near the rim for his size, which is enormously concerning, but just like Isaiah Thomas he's somehow that 1 in a million that can still make it work at the NBA level. He definitely could stand to drop some weight (and did).

The other part of it is that this wasn't a gradual growth and coming out over a period of years. Not like a Serge Ibaka/Blake Griffin where he turned himself into a better mid-range shooter every year, or a Steph Curry where you could see progress on his handle every passing year. Or even a Hassan Whiteside where the raw talent was always there but he just screwed his head on right (we think). Even Steve Kerr and the Warriors GM admitted last June after winning the title they had no idea how good Draymond was that training camp - even after he'd been in the organization for 2 years. He was supposed to play 20-25 minutes, mainly with the 2nd unit, then David Lee got hurt, Draymond stepped in, and he really was close to this good from day 1 in that starting lineup. The Celtics traded Rajon Rondo to the Mavs, Brandan Wright was supposed to be the prize but then Jae Crowder turned out to be the best player of the 3. And before Celtics fans get too cocky, the guy we threw in to balance rosters, Dwight Powell, is a real rotation player for the Mavs this year too! Really makes you wonder just how much talent has been wasted at the end of NBA benches. (Jeremy Lin's another great example.)

It's also not entirely that they were wrong about his strengths and limitations (other than the idea he couldn't guard perimeter players). It's that what makes you good in the 2015, pace and space NBA, is so much different from what people were looking for even 3-4 years ago before that playoff run with LeBron at the 4 really opened eyes. And it's not like that re-invented the wheel (remember the lockout Knicks that made a run to the NBA finals after Ewing got hurt with Marcus Camby as the 5?) but people were willing to accept things they weren't before. Suddenly having certain elite skills becomes less effective when teams can overload defenses. With the increased emphasis on creating and then exploiting matchups, suddenly being average+ at everything like Draymond became much more valuable. Just how good would prime Kobe even be in today's NBA? Or Steph Curry back when they could handcheck on the perimeter? (Even the people in the center of the NBA world are fascinated by the question (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14196124/nba-steve-kerr-2015-16-golden-state-warriors-vs-1995-96-chicago-bulls).)

Vince, Pt. II

12-13-2015, 11:24 AM

Yeah, Draymond is a 4. He literally never plays the 3 for the team. Harrison Barnes is the starter at SF, and Brandon Rush has been starting (poorly) while he's out.

Vince, Pt. II

12-13-2015, 11:59 AM

Question for those who watched the Warriors game last night:

I'm obviously biased, but the upgrade of Klay Thompson's offensive foul to a flagrant 1 last night (I think in the third quarter?) seemed somewhat ridiculous. Am I wrong?

wustin

12-13-2015, 12:06 PM

Yeah, Draymond is a 4. He literally never plays the 3 for the team. Harrison Barnes is the starter at SF, and Brandon Rush has been starting (poorly) while he's out.

He's listed as the 4 on the lineup, but we all know he's a point-forward.

Paul George is listed as the 4 for Indiana, does that actually make him a power forward? No.

Question for those who watched the Warriors game last night:

I'm obviously biased, but the upgrade of Klay Thompson's offensive foul to a flagrant 1 last night (I think in the third quarter?) seemed somewhat ridiculous. Am I wrong?

Anytime the head is striked, it's flagrant. The degree of the flagrant foul is subjective. Since it was unintentional it was a flagrant-1. I think a flagrant-2 gets you ejected.

Zinto

12-13-2015, 12:23 PM

He's listed as the 4 on the lineup, but we all know he's a point-forward.

Paul George is listed as the 4 for Indiana, does that actually make him a power forward? No.

Does Draymond ever play the 3? I really do not think so. He is a 4 who can play the 5 during six or so minute stretches. Paul George on the other hand plays with two other bigs for stretches and doesn't guard the other teams 4.

If you are starting a NBA team how many power forwards go before Draymond? I really don't think very many do. Davis for sure but who else definitely goes before him. He changes your team with his defense and passing.

Vince, Pt. II

12-13-2015, 03:20 PM

Anytime the head is striked, it's flagrant. The degree of the flagrant foul is subjective. Since it was unintentional it was a flagrant-1. I think a flagrant-2 gets you ejected.

I didn't realize that (and the Warriors play-by-play didn't say anything like this during the broadcast). Makes sense.

nol

12-13-2015, 03:30 PM

Unless I'm blanking on someone, between his ability to play both sides of the pick and roll, rebound, make the right decision every time on 4v3's once teams double Curry, and hit open 3's there aren't 5 players on the planet who could fill Draymond's role, there's one, and his name is LeBron. (Maybe Paul Millsap? Boris Diaw if he actually worked out? Maaaaaaaybe Chris Bosh? Could Anthony Davis pull it off?)

Well I just said 5 to be excessively conservative, just like when I said Green was one of the top 30 players over the summer when he was closer to top 15 in my view. You could certainly say he's the only one who could play that role because LeBron wouldn't care as much about the regular season, but you could probably figure out a slightly different way to play and be similarly effective with players like Durant or Kawhi in Green's place.

For All-NBA purposes, he would be first team if you called him a center, but as a forward (no difference between 3 and 4) he'd have to be ahead of one of LeBron, George, Leonard, and Durant to make the 2nd team.

At this point I don't really think it matters which team it is (except for maybe the Sixers and Lakers), they're going to play very hard when it's against Golden State. Kinda like how in college sports when a top 25 school visits a mid major/unranked team.

Phrased differently, the Warriors are so much better than everyone else that all teams are more or less equally (un)likely to beat Golden State on a given night.

BishopMVP

12-14-2015, 03:24 PM

Well I just said 5 to be excessively conservative, just like when I said Green was one of the top 30 players over the summer when he was closer to top 15 in my view. You could certainly say he's the only one who could play that role because LeBron wouldn't care as much about the regular season, but you could probably figure out a slightly different way to play and be similarly effective with players like Durant or Kawhi in Green's place.LeBron doesn't need to care and he's still better (and could up his intensity for those big games/4th quarters as needed.) I picked Cleveland as one of my under picks for exactly that reason, but he's still dragging them to the 3rd best record in the NBA and they're running out Matthew Dellevadova, Jared Cunningham, and Richard Jefferson at times in crunch time.

I'm also imagining a Steph Curry/KD pick and roll :eek: Although, interestingly, OKC might be better with KD not in the P&R, running that Westbrook/Ibaka one with KD sucking up a ton of attention away from the ball. (And if you want to talk about "small-ball 4's", and seeing what LeBron and Paul George have done when in that role, it's great to finally see OKC using KD in that role too.) OKC somehow doesn't play their 1st game vs GS until February, but it'll be fascinating to see if OKC plays some of their own smallball vs the Warriors or if they just try to go big.
I'm still fascinated by the West's relative struggles, and how much parity there is right now.Agree completely on your tiers and read on the Pistons (although I still don't understand why hack-a-Drummond isn't more prevalent - he's the midst of another 6 game streak with 6 or fewer FT attempts). Just to put some numbers to this, the Eastern Conference has won 50% of their games vs the West once since the turn of the century (2009 with 50.5%), and actually never topped 48.6% again. They're currently 72-70 (despite GS/SA being 19-4).

BishopMVP

12-14-2015, 04:33 PM

Oh, wow. So I saw the game where Rajon Rondo got ejected for staring down a referee, then kind of went off. It seemed a little weird at the time, but you know, it's Rondo - he's a weird dude who used to go on his free time to children's hospitals and YMCA's to cheer up kids, but would never let a single kid actually beat him in Connect Four.

So anyway, that referee (Bill Kennedy) is gay, which is well known in NBA circles. And Rondo was calling him a faggot. And now Bill Kennedy's issued a public statement saying he's gay (which again, was well known, but why bother putting a press release out before?). So it'll be interesting if this leads to a longer suspension for Rondo or what other effects it has.

wustin

12-14-2015, 04:49 PM

molson

12-14-2015, 04:51 PM

BishopMVP

12-14-2015, 05:06 PM

If you're intending to intimidate/harass someone specifically because of their sexual orientation, I'd say that's worse than throwing around random gay slurs just because you're insensitive and immature generally.Exactly. I remember getting in an argument here along these lines a few years ago because I didn't think personally using the word fag was a big deal as long as it wasn't intended as a gay slur. I realize now as I'm more mature that I was wrong (and shoutout to others like Quiksand and I forget who else, who were willing to have that argument because that discussion and reflection on it did at least accelerate a change in my behavior), but I still believe in this part of it.

Plenty of people who aren't homophobic throw the term faggot around, but specifically targeting it towards a person you know is gay is an entirely different level. Just like 2 black friends calling each my nigga is different than a white person in a confederate flag shirt. Context and intent matters.

In this specific case I actually partly agree with wustin in that, like the Ray Rice case, Rondo should have been punished more initially but shouldn't get more now. I definitely disagree with the other part of his post, but it is why I mentioned twice how Bill Kennedy's sexual orientation was well known. It wasn't "public knowledge", but it would be hard for me to believe that Rondo did not know he was gay.

wustin

12-14-2015, 05:28 PM

Groundhog

12-14-2015, 05:53 PM

I'm not inclined to give Rondo the benefit of the doubt with his track record of being an asshole.

BishopMVP

12-14-2015, 05:55 PM

I chalk it up to an emotional burst. When you're out to compete, adrenaline is pumping, emotions flare, you tend to be impulsive. I'd rather not make any conclusions based on anecdotal evidence until Rondo makes a statement.Whether Rajon Rondo is homophobic is something only he knows, and to be clear I have no idea if he is, and know plenty of people who are not throw that word around. But "I'm not homophobic, I just cynically used something personal I knew would hurt another person." doesn't excuse his actions.
OKC somehow doesn't play their 1st game vs GS until FebruaryDid a little more checking on GS's schedule. They only play SA once (Jan 25) before late March too. Cleveland obviously on Christmas, then a rematch a month later. The NBA definitely backloaded the Western Conference powers matchups - SA & OKC also have 3 of their 4 meetings Mar 12 on (and the one they had was opening night.) I get it in general, but if SA has 3 matchups vs GS/OKC in their last 5 games, what are the odds both teams will be playing 100%?

Weird note I'd also forgotten about - who was the one team before Boston that took GS to OT?Brooklyn, in Golden State. It was a Saturday night, and game 11 before The Streak had become a thing.

Groundhog

12-14-2015, 06:09 PM

Not taking anything at all away from GSW's achievement with that streak, but without looking at their schedule I'd struggled to remember a big matchup for them this season.

JPhillips

12-14-2015, 06:50 PM

Weird note I'd also forgotten about - who was the one team before Boston that took GS to OT?Brooklyn, in Golden State. It was a Saturday night, and game 11 before The Streak had become a thing.

And if Brook Lopez had hit the bunny as time expired there wouldn't have been a streak.

BishopMVP

12-14-2015, 06:53 PM

Not taking anything at all away from GSW's achievement with that streak, but without looking at their schedule I'd struggled to remember a big matchup for them this season.Same here. After the two Clippers games, I feel like @ Toronto (because they played them close early at GS) then @ Boston (partially because we're good, partially because it was the tail end of a long road trip) were the next two biggest in people's minds. This is projecting a lot, but I think New Orleans, Memphis, Chicago, Phoenix, Utah were all teams people thought would be better before the season I don't think were real threats when they played.

murrayyyyy

12-14-2015, 07:04 PM

That would be ridiculous if Rondo gets a longer suspension.

Call a referee a faggot, get 1 game suspension. He happens to be gay? 1+X games then. If there's any additional punishment, I bet it will be because the NBA will be pressured to do it.

It would probably be easier if the team suspends him rather than the league. You can't be a league that paraded you first openly gay player and then allow those things to be said. The league, much like the NFL, blew it.

The league was quick to take action in the Clippers situation but have probably opened them up to a lawsuit (if someone chooses) because I'm sure it falls under harassment laws. You can say they get harassed by players all the time but if you do this in any other billion dollar corporation you don't get a 1 day suspension from work.

JonInMiddleGA

12-14-2015, 08:02 PM

It wasn't "public knowledge", but it would be hard for me to believe that Rondo did not know he was gay.

Definitely wasn't public knowledge, 'cause I didn't have the slightest idea about it. (I'm not an NBA superfan my any means but I follow it casually enough to figure I'm a decent threshold for whether it was a very public thing)

But that said -- mostly as a general observation -- is it really that impossible to think an athlete could remain clueless about something these days?

I'm thinking of this in terms of how college athlete X has no idea who a guy from even 20 years ago is, or how somebody like Rondo who appears to be sort of quirky (like the Connect Four thing) might actually be fairly oblivious to any number of things around him.

And nope, haters, this is not any attempt to defend Rondo or get into politically correct speech issues or anything remotely like that. It's entirely about how there do seem to be people who are extremely disconnected from stuff around them & how it might not be inconceivable that he (or any other person in the league) simply didn't have any idea. That it just never came up around them basically, or they weren't paying the slightest bit of attention when it did. I don't really get that level of disconnect but I do see it often enough that it wouldn't be THAT odd.

(Or is there a suggestion that the refs orientation is a topic of conversation in every NBA locker room at some point?)

murrayyyyy

12-14-2015, 08:12 PM

JonInMiddleGA

12-14-2015, 08:27 PM

I wouldn't say it was the deepest secret in the NBA.

Disgraced former NBA referee Tim Donaghy alleged in a 2010 interview that Kennedy was gay and “had no love for Doc Rivers and the Boston Celtics,” because of a comment Rivers allegedly made about Kennedy’s sexual orientation. Rondo, obviously was a member of that Celtics team.

Donaghy Claim: Bill Kennedy’s sexuality at root of hatred for Doc | Red's Army - The Voice of Boston Celtics Fans (http://redsarmy.com/2010/05/11/donaghy-claim-bill-kennedys-sexuality-at-root-of-hatred-for-doc/)

So this has been out there for like five years now ... and I'm hearing about it for the first time?

Amazing how not making a big deal out of something makes it be not a big deal.

(Yeah, THAT could be construed as social commentary I suppose, sue me)

BishopMVP

12-14-2015, 08:59 PM

Definitely wasn't public knowledge, 'cause I didn't have the slightest idea about it. (I'm not an NBA superfan my any means but I follow it casually enough to figure I'm a decent threshold for whether it was a very public thing)

But that said -- mostly as a general observation -- is it really that impossible to think an athlete could remain clueless about something these days?

I'm thinking of this in terms of how college athlete X has no idea who a guy from even 20 years ago is, or how somebody like Rondo who appears to be sort of quirky (like the Connect Four thing) might actually be fairly oblivious to any number of things around him.

And nope, haters, this is not any attempt to defend Rondo or get into politically correct speech issues or anything remotely like that. It's entirely about how there do seem to be people who are extremely disconnected from stuff around them & how it might not be inconceivable that he (or any other person in the league) simply didn't have any idea. That it just never came up around them basically, or they weren't paying the slightest bit of attention when it did. I don't really get that level of disconnect but I do see it often enough that it wouldn't be THAT odd.

(Or is there a suggestion that the refs orientation is a topic of conversation in every NBA locker room at some point?)Entirely possible, and if I didn't know the names of the player and referee in question I'd assume that case. But complete scumbag Tim Donaghy outed Bill Kennedy in 2010 and alleged that there was friction between him and Doc Rivers over it (http://redsarmy.com/2010/05/11/donaghy-claim-bill-kennedys-sexuality-at-root-of-hatred-for-doc/). It was a minor thing up here in Boston, and I'm sure Rondo was asked about it.

It's also dangerous to read too much into body language, but I've seen a lot of Rondo over the years, and his actions between the first technical and 2nd technical (from about :22 to :45) struck me as extremely odd even live. Couple that with the what was allegedly said, the extremely clinical way Rondo operates and lack of emotion he shows, to still have a very professional referee doing all he could to de-escalate a situation throw him out...

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/DLzGIMW1XN4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
So this has been out there for like five years now ... and I'm hearing about it for the first time?

Amazing how not making a big deal out of something makes it be not a big deal.

(Yeah, THAT could be construed as social commentary I suppose, sue me)Yep. UMass basketball had a player come out before last season, and by a month in we were back to yelling at him for sucking at outside shooting, just like all our other guards. That's how an actual progressive fanbase should react instead of walking on eggshells or worrying that any criticism would make him wilt like a delicate flower.

murrayyyyy

12-15-2015, 08:39 PM

Why the hell would anyone help out Houston and take Howard right now?

He's a baby that is taking 8 shots a game right now. He's making 45.6 million over this and next year. He got his coach fired in Orlando, got along with no one in LA and it's starting to look like the same thing in Houston with his body forcing him to miss half the games last year and 5? this year already(did he miss 2 with suspension to start the season).

Either way I don't understand why the Heat would trade for him unless they believe he is the 3 for the Big 3. There is no way Whiteside and Winslow should be involved in a deal to bring him in.

Mizzou B-ball fan

12-16-2015, 08:49 AM

murrayyyyy

12-16-2015, 09:12 AM

Fantastic stuff from LeBron. Great example for other players in the league.

LeBron James Shows Love to Special Olympian, Gives Him Shoes After Game | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2599564-lebron-james-shows-love-to-special-olympian-gives-him-shoes-after-game/)

Was about to post something similar, found this part even more surprising.

"He also had my shoes on," James said, via ESPN. "I designed those shoes for kids with conditions where they can't tie their own shoestrings, and he had a pair on. Those shoes that he had on are made for kids that can't tie their own shoes, and it's just one strap. When I saw his story, it was just like, I don't know, I felt like I was a part of him. Just showing my respect, gave him my shoes. It was well received by him. It was not for you guys or the fans. It was for him."

First off, good on LeBron (even if he didn't design it) to know that his brand has special shoes for kids who have this problem. Second, I'm amazed at his ability during timeouts to notice things going on and always pay more respect than the crowd usually. Third, keep your shoe game up because evidently LBJ checks out everyone's shoes,

jbergey22

12-16-2015, 09:41 AM

BishopMVP

12-16-2015, 10:06 AM

LeBron has the ability to see the big picture in life as he does on the basketball court. Always seems to be thinking 2 steps ahead of the "normal" person. Always under a microscope and he has done few things wrong in his career and when he has received criticism he has done his best to rectify the situation. He uses his influence to do far more good things than bad.

Kind of like Magic Johnson in that he was just born a winner. "The Decision" was frowned upon but now he is turning a similar idea into the next million dollar idea. He rakes in $126,500 per tweet.Especially considering what, he was raised by a single mother who didn't go to college, he obviously never went to college and had all this attention showered on him by age 15, and the worst you can say is he's a tad narcissistic? Or surrounds himself with too many Yes men?
Why the hell would anyone help out Houston and take Howard right now?

I don't understand why the Heat would trade for him unless they believe he is the 3 for the Big 3. There is no way Whiteside and Winslow should be involved in a deal to bring him in.Whiteside and Winslow? I wouldn't trade either for him (ok, maybe Whiteside if the Heat still felt he was just a ticking time bomb more likely to be out of the NBA by the end of next year.) But fwiw, I read the rumors as Whiteside and Winslow being offered as the centerpieces of a DMC trade, which at least makes sense from a talent standpoint. Although not at all from the Kings or Whiteside's perspective - I just don't think you want to risk putting Hassan (back) in that dysfunctional environment.
Violet Palmer is both gay and a terrible refereeThat's the spirit!

murrayyyyy

12-16-2015, 01:26 PM

Whiteside and Winslow? I wouldn't trade either for him (ok, maybe Whiteside if the Heat still felt he was just a ticking time bomb more likely to be out of the NBA by the end of next year.) But fwiw, I read the rumors as Whiteside and Winslow being offered as the centerpieces of a DMC trade, which at least makes sense from a talent standpoint. Although not at all from the Kings or Whiteside's perspective - I just don't think you want to risk putting Hassan (back) in that dysfunctional environment.

I think Whiteside is an UFA this season so I guess it's not a big loss. Obviously Deng has to be in on the deal for $'s. I just can't see Howard being the missing piece anymore especially at 23 mill. I know Cousins at $15 seems like a better deal but he's just as big of a head case. I remember him shooting nothing but 3's in warmups before every trip to Vegas for Kings. Didn't work the bench for the past two years but for those first 3 years he was there the coaches almost seemed happy with him shooting 23 ft away from the left side for an hour.

jbergey22

12-16-2015, 02:00 PM

I think Whiteside is an UFA this season so I guess it's not a big loss. Obviously Deng has to be in on the deal for $'s. I just can't see Howard being the missing piece anymore especially at 23 mill. I know Cousins at $15 seems like a better deal but he's just as big of a head case. I remember him shooting nothing but 3's in warmups before every trip to Vegas for Kings. Didn't work the bench for the past two years but for those first 3 years he was there the coaches almost seemed happy with him shooting 23 ft away from the left side for an hour.

I think Howard could still be a very big asset. His latest two teams have been where he is a secondary option on teams whose primary option is a high usage player(Kobe/Harden). Stick Howard on a team where he can be the 1b to the 1a and I think he will be happy and be the player from 4 years ago. The Rockets rarely even run a play designed for him unless its a pick and roll back screen dunk.

His per 36 minute numbers havent fallen off a whole lot. He just gets fewer shot attempts and much lower usage than he did with Orlando.

murrayyyyy

12-16-2015, 03:15 PM

I think Howard could still be a very big asset. His latest two teams have been where he is a secondary option on teams whose primary option is a high usage player(Kobe/Harden). Stick Howard on a team where he can be the 1b to the 1a and I think he will be happy and be the player from 4 years ago. The Rockets rarely even run a play designed for him unless its a pick and roll back screen dunk.

His per 36 minute numbers havent fallen off a whole lot. He just gets fewer shot attempts and much lower usage than he did with Orlando.

Honest question. Can he jump anymore? I just watched this video from the Kings game and can't help but think that the Lakers/Magic version of Howard would have at least dunked a few of these. He had left back surgery 3 years ago, missed a ton of games last year because of his knees and before the season started was complaining about the right side of his back and missing games. I just don't watch a ton of Rockets games and his vertical is starting to look a lot like Z-Bo.

Dwight "Superman" Howard - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61szwOFfOs4)

albionmoonlight

12-16-2015, 03:36 PM

Honest question. Can he jump anymore? I just watched this video from the Kings game and can't help but think that the Lakers/Magic version of Howard would have at least dunked a few of these. He had left back surgery 3 years ago, missed a ton of games last year because of his knees and before the season started was complaining about the right side of his back and missing games. I just don't watch a ton of Rockets games and his vertical is starting to look a lot like Z-Bo.

Dwight "Superman" Howard - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61szwOFfOs4)

This. Has a big guy EVER gotten back athleticism that he lost due to age/injury? It seems like a one-way street.

jbergey22

12-16-2015, 04:09 PM

Honest question. Can he jump anymore? I just watched this video from the Kings game and can't help but think that the Lakers/Magic version of Howard would have at least dunked a few of these. He had left back surgery 3 years ago, missed a ton of games last year because of his knees and before the season started was complaining about the right side of his back and missing games. I just don't watch a ton of Rockets games and his vertical is starting to look a lot like Z-Bo.

Dwight "Superman" Howard - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61szwOFfOs4)

Ouch! Yeah in that video it certainly shows he has lost explosiveness. I havent watched much of him this year either. Ive seen where he can flash the talent that made him the best center in the NBA for a few plays but nothing consistent at this point. Perhaps he just doesnt have the explosiveness and stamina to maintain that high level anymore.

miami_fan

12-16-2015, 05:00 PM

From what I am reading, he is upset with being second banana to Harden and . He would HATE being in Miami behind an aging Wade, Bosh, and to a lesser extent Dragic.

Groundhog

12-16-2015, 06:10 PM

So he wants to be in a situation like he was back in his Orlando days? You know, the first time he demanded a trade because he didn't have enough support around him?

BishopMVP

12-17-2015, 10:31 PM

Woj partnering with Yahoo! Sports to launch a new site. The obvious parallel is Bill Simmons and Grantland, except basketball only - Yahoo Sports â€” Woj Interviews NBA Commissioner Adam Silver in New... (http://yahoosports.tumblr.com/post/135316790293/woj-interviews-nba-commissioner-adam-silver-in-new?soc_src=mail&soc_trk=ma)

(Also, Yahoo is using tumblr now??? That... doesn't make me hopeful for the layout of the new site.)

RainMaker

12-18-2015, 12:08 AM

Howard looks shot to me. Similar situation to Rose. Two guys who relied heavily on their superior athleticism that just don't have that advantage anymore.

wustin

12-18-2015, 07:37 AM

It's funny how Howard got lessons from Ewing and Olajuwon and 10 years in the league now he still has a mediocre low post game.

nol

12-18-2015, 09:44 AM

whomario

12-18-2015, 01:55 PM

Well, partly because he's just worse and partly because he plays in an era where a good post scorer can't get 20+ straight 1-on-1 post iso opportunities per game. You could argue he'd be better off both then and now if he'd worked more towards staying in his lane and maximizing his strengths rather than trying to shoehorn in a post game.

The fact that he, as one of the leagues most devastating PnR players, refused to be a PnR player in a league catered to that style really tells you all you need to know about his priorities.

BishopMVP

12-18-2015, 03:52 PM

Marcus Camby was back on campus the other night and we got to talking about his game. Talk about someone who just missed their window. He still made over $100 million and got some recognition, but man, even with his constant minor injuries and his shot that never improved enough to be a weapon he was that prototype rim-running 5 for an up-tempo team. One of the best rim protectors and rebounders of any era, who could easily handle most switches on the pick and roll, run the floor in transition, enough passing to make the quick 4v3 decisions when he's the roll man on offense, and absolutely zero ego or desire to be an offensive focal point? I'd kill to have that guy on the Celtics today.

Vince, Pt. II

12-19-2015, 12:23 AM

I haven't seen any other Bucks game, but based on the way they've played the Warriors twice, it's hard to believe they're 10-18.

wustin

12-19-2015, 12:55 AM

I haven't seen any other Bucks game, but based on the way they've played the Warriors twice, it's hard to believe they're 10-18.

Did you not see their game with the Lakers. Their shots just seem to fall against the Warriors. They got away with a lot of penetration in the first half because the Warriors had to use Speights since Bogut was out and Ezeli was in foul trouble.

miami_fan

12-19-2015, 08:33 PM

Am I the only one hoping Clippers/Rockets goes is a 4 1/2 hour 4 quarter game with a battle of Hack A DeAndre versus Hack A Dwight?

wustin

12-20-2015, 12:55 AM

Am I the only one hoping Clippers/Rockets goes is a 4 1/2 hour 4 quarter game with a battle of Hack A DeAndre versus Hack A Dwight?

It's not fun to watch but it wouldn't be happening if bigs could shoot free throws. If anything it should be a huge motivator to improve free throw shooting but Jordan shoots it at like 39% this season lol. All you have to do is shoot over 50% and the hacking stops.

Chief Rum

12-20-2015, 02:30 AM

It's not fun to watch but it wouldn't be happening if bigs could shoot free throws. If anything it should be a huge motivator to improve free throw shooting but Jordan shoots it at like 39% this season lol. All you have to do is shoot over 50% and the hacking stops.

I don't think it is that simple. I believe if it was, Jordan would have gotten better at it by now.

Ever since Shaq was in the league, I always thought it was harder for bigger guys to shoot free throws, because their fingers and hand size are relatively bigger than the ball and requires a greater level of dexterity to skillfully and consistently shoot a free throw.

So unfortunately we're probably going to be seeing this for a while.

stevew

12-20-2015, 02:44 AM

It's not like Nowitski or Durant are small guys tho. I'm probably never going to watch a game featuring Dwight or Jordan ever again though. Too many clangs

Chief Rum

12-20-2015, 03:05 AM

It's not like Nowitski or Durant are small guys tho. I'm probably never going to watch a game featuring Dwight or Jordan ever again though. Too many clangs

Actually Duncan was terrible at free throws to start his career. I know he has improved, but I am betting he isn't great at it now either, at least in comparison to most basketball players.

I think a lot of it is also what you did as a kid learning to play. Europeans often come over here highly skilled, which tells me they probably learn to shoot more consistently at a younger age than many American players do, who are raised up through the whole AAU "and one" mentality, which is all about athleticism and not as much basketball fundamentals.

Reasons for this aside, though, I totally get not watching Dwight/Jordan games (although as I recall, you don't much like the Clips anyway, so what are you missing? ;) )

stevew

12-20-2015, 03:10 AM

Between Harden and Howard the Rockets are definitely my #1 do not watch team these days. And yeah, I pretty much hate the clippers as well so I'm totally not missing much there.

Chief Rum

12-20-2015, 03:12 AM

Between Harden and Howard the Rockets are definitely my #1 do not watch team these days. And yeah, I pretty much hate the clippers as well so I'm totally not missing much there.

Yeah, I am not fond of watching the Rockets either. Harden is one of the more "meh" superstars I have seen in a while. Reminds me of Melo.

BishopMVP

12-20-2015, 03:35 AM

Did you not see their game with the Lakers. Their shots just seem to fall against the Warriors. They got away with a lot of penetration in the first half because the Warriors had to use Speights since Bogut was out and Ezeli was in foul trouble.Well, not staying at the strip club until 4am also helps.

Tim Duncan shot 66% as a rookie, and never worse than 60% for a season. I 100% think the NBA needs to do something to crack down on hacking for entertainment value alone, but I'm not convinced it's the "right" thing... DeAndre Jordan and Andre Drummond are freaks of nature in the best sense, but they literally can't throw a ball into a cylinder half the time from 10 feet away. What exactly is the point of basketball and why should we give more advantages to people who already hit the genetic lottery?

Brian Swartz

12-20-2015, 03:36 AM

Duncan's worst year was 59.9%, most of his bad years are in the low 60s. Bad, but nowhere near Drummond/Howard/Jordan bad. These days he tends to shoot in the low-mid 70s, which is just a hair below-average in the NBA.

I can buy that it's harder for a big player to improve or be good at it. I can't buy that they just absolutely can't shoot in the 55-60% range at least.

I haven't seen any other Bucks game, but based on the way they've played the Warriors twice, it's hard to believe they're 10-18.

I've come to believe that sometimes there are just bad matchups, and sometimes for reasons not at all obvious. Clippers, for example, are a bad matchup for the Spurs because they can fairly easily neutralize SA's strengths. There are a lot of things I don't understand about basketball, but it does seem clear to me that it's often more complicated than 'Team X is a lot better, so they should win'.

nol

12-20-2015, 12:01 PM

The fact that he, as one of the leagues most devastating PnR players, refused to be a PnR player in a league catered to that style really tells you all you need to know about his priorities.

Or, that it would take a really special amount of resolve and determination to bust your ass to become one of the best few players in the NBA at a very young age, have your idols in the game and the general public still demean your accomplishments because of the way you play, and not want to try to cater to that.

Atocep

12-20-2015, 04:34 PM

Tim Duncan shot 66% as a rookie, and never worse than 60% for a season. I 100% think the NBA needs to do something to crack down on hacking for entertainment value alone, but I'm not convinced it's the "right" thing... DeAndre Jordan and Andre Drummond are freaks of nature in the best sense, but they literally can't throw a ball into a cylinder half the time from 10 feet away. What exactly is the point of basketball and why should we give more advantages to people who already hit the genetic lottery?

Away from the ball fouls on those guys are the biggest issue IMO. They shouldn't change anything when it comes to fouling those players when they have the ball, but if the league simply called the rule on the books it should change the hack-a-whoever approach.

If an Off-the-Ball Foul is committed in the last 2 minutes of the Final Period against a player who is not in possession of the ball and is making no attempt to receive, or get in position to receive the ball; the player who was fouled will shoot 2 Free Throws

That's the current rule on the books. I think it should be expanded to any point in the game and instead of 2 shots cut it to 1 shot. Basically, treat like the old illegal defense call.

JonInMiddleGA

12-20-2015, 05:05 PM

I was actually looking up something else about Dwight Howard and noticed an amusing the in the Google results.

There were 5-6 stories about the whole 8 kids with 8 different mamas thing ... and his Biography.com listing, which comes up with a search headline of "Dwight Howard - Children's Activist, Famous Basketball PLayer"

Yeah, sounds like he's "active" alright

stevew

12-20-2015, 05:10 PM

Sounds like his condom failure rate is higher than his free throw percentage.

Brian Swartz

12-25-2015, 02:06 PM

So as of Christmas day, the difference between #2 seed in the East and not making the playoffs is a whopping two games. Slightly larger margin there in the West :P.

whomario

12-31-2015, 10:13 AM

The Spurs 2nd unit is really, really fun to watch :) Only the Spurs can find 7 guys who are not only good players, but all also incredibly good at (at least) one thing. Marjanovic is my new drug against Yao-Withdrawal-Sndrome ;)

I find it a bizarre sight that at 12-20, the Wolves are actually kinda sorta in the race for the 8th seed (Utah at 13-17 and trending downwards)

Vince, Pt. II

12-31-2015, 01:10 PM

My buddy suggested changing free throws from fouls once you're in the bonus. Essentially, his point is that if you foul someone who is outside the three point line, they get three free throws.

Sounds intriguing, though I'm not sure of the ramifications, especially early in the game.

Vince, Pt. II

01-01-2016, 02:22 AM

So the Rockets lost to the Warriors without Steph Curry, Harrison Barnes, Festus Ezeli, and Leandro Barbosa. While the Warriors were on the second night of a road back-to-back. Is that more a castigation of the Rockets, or an impressive win for an injury-plagued squad?

I've been having a hard time believing the Rockets are this bad this season as-is, but man, losing to a Warriors team this depleted seems pretty bad.

wustin

01-01-2016, 03:52 AM

They are a solid team without those 4 players. Their lost to Dallas was because Klay couldn't make a basket and Barea turned into Steph Curry.

Also Rockets' have atrocious defense. Draymond is a great passer, but you can't let him get 16 assists.

Vince, Pt. II

01-04-2016, 11:33 PM

Draymond with his third consecutive triple-double tonight.

Edit: which made me look up the record, which is Wilt Chamberlain with 9 consecutive triple-doubles. Oscar Robertson is second with 8. That seems crazy.

Groundhog

01-04-2016, 11:53 PM

TBH, I'm kinda surprised Oscar Robertson doesn't hold the record with more than Wilt, given he averaged one for a season.

BishopMVP

01-06-2016, 09:36 AM

Been doing a ton of year-end evaluations/predictions of kids I coach, so I wanted to check in on some other predictions. (Edited with current projected win totals, before last night's games.)Over/Unders by conference:

East
-----
Cavaliers 56.5 UNDER (59.0)
Bulls 49.5 (51.3)
Hawks 49.5 (49.2)
Heat 45.5 (50.7)
Raptors 45.5 (47.8)
Wizards 45.5 OVER (38.5)
Bucks 43.5 UNDER (31.9)
Celtics 42.5 OVER (45.8)
Pacers 42.5 (45.8)
Pistons 33.5 OVER (44.5)
Hornets 32.5 (41)
Magic 32.5 (44.5)
Knicks 31.5 (37.5)
Nets 28.5 OVER (24.1)
76ers 21.5 (8.9)

West
-----
Warriors 60.5 (77.2)
Spurs 58.5 (68.3)
Thunder 57.5 (56.3)
Clippers 56.5 UNDER (51.6)
Rockets 54.5 (38.7)
Grizzlies 50.5 (43.3)
Pelicans 47.5 UNDER (27.3)
Jazz 40.5 (37.3)
Mavericks 38.5 OVER (45.8)
Suns 36.5 (26.6)
Kings 30.5 (33.8)
Lakers 29.5 UNDER (18.8)
Blazers 26.5 (33.2)
Nuggets 26.5 (28.1)
Wolves 25.5 (28.1)Saving my quick predictions here so I can make fun of myself later. Wizards look great on offense, Celtics have the deepest bench in the league (some would even say it includes 80% of our starting lineup!), and I'm not sure if the Nets make some dumb trade to add another overpriced veteran, but I don't think they'll cut Joe Johnson and they'll pick up some cheap wins down the stretch to try and avoid the ignominy of giving Boston a top 5 pick while other EC teams are tanking. In the same vein, Detroit will be the team that's still competing for that 8th spot down the stretch and ending up high 30's. On the flip side, the Cavs are banged up to start and LeBron knows the regular season doesn't matter. Not sure he'll take a full sabbatical again, but he saves his body and doesn't go out all out every night. Bulls/Hawks/Heat have high ceilings but so many question marks I don't like picking them. Toronto could implode, but the Atlantic Division is bad enough and Kyle Lowry good enough if he stays healthy 45 seems about right. Really interested to see if they try to build around Valanciunas or Masai looks to trade him for someone who fits their style better. I think Charlotte and Orlando will try for 8th even though they have little chance, but they'll try long enough it's hard to pick them below 32 in a bad conference. Knicks are the same with the added lack of their 1st round pick, so no incentive to pack it in. Don't think Carmelo gets traded in season though - so many more options available with all the cap space opening up after the draft.

I only really like the Mavs to go over out West. I know people are picking them to fall hard, but Rick Carlisle will will them to stay in the race unless Wesley Matthews is less than 100% all season. I don't quite like the Clippers as much - I feel like they're complacent about the regular season now. Pelicans are too thin and banged up, even if Anthony Davis counts as 1.5 guys. And I just can't wait to see how hard Kobe is forcing smiles and trying to be a leader until he snaps on Randle/Russell for rookie mistakes (or just Nick Young for being Nick Young.) A ton of people are jumping hard on the Jazz bandwagon, but like I said I don't see a point guard, and Zach Lowe is saying Rudy Gobert is looking a little tired after his summer workload. Suns should go over, but terrible chemistry could do them in. Breaking up the Morris twins is a gamble, and maybe a clean break from both would've been a better option. Blazers/Nuggets/Wolves are all young and should play fast enough they'll be in enough games to win 1/3rd of them, especially when they get a few cheap wins against older teams who don't want to match their energy.So the #1 takeaway as always, damn Vegas does an awesome job. At the same time, and I swear I didn't do this intending to brag, 7 out of 10 right now! (although plenty could still flip) Maybe I should've taken nol's advice and actually put some money down :lol:

The mistakes are always more fun to analyze, so looking at the three I'm "getting wrong", Cleveland looks like I thought they would, missed Kyrie for 90% of the year, and they're still on pace for 59 wins? Yikes... Kevin Love's just fitting in so much better this year, and the addition of competent wings really has been more important than the loss of Kyrie. Although I think LeBron could dial it back another notch and let Kyrie/Love figure some things out so they fall slightly under, this team's getting the 1 seed and winning the East. The Wizards I completely don't get. John Wall looks like he's taken that next step to borderline 1st team all-NBA player every time I watch him, Otto Porter's looked like the same player who broke out last spring (at least the last few weeks) and they're still floundering at .500. There's something I'm not seeing here - I love Paul Pierce, but saying they miss his leadership seems a little too cheap. :confused: The Nets are still under, but just like I was telling every Celtics fan dreaming about Ben Simmons those first couple weeks the Nets are coming around, and will pass a few tanking teams in that March/April stretch run. Maybe that brutal Jarrett Jack injury changes things, and maybe enough teams do stay in the playoff race long enough to bank more wins before flipping to 2016-2017 mode, but they've still got a couple players. Forget Brook Lopez, who's untradeable due to contract/injury, Thaddeus Young deserves to get traded to a contender and he'll probably stay stuck in that purgatory. :(

East outliers I didn't see coming - Charlotte/Orlando/to a lesser extent NY. The Knicks are the easiest - no one saw Porzingis being this good right away, and Robin Lopez is really growing on me. Unselfish, defense/boxing out, that weird little brother offensive game highlighted by his scoop hook shot from the waist? I love it. I actually think it makes even more sense for them to trade Carmelo now that Porzingis looks like a future franchise player. Melo's still valuable, he's still good (and for a realistic Celtics trade, that Nets pick, + David Lee's contract + like Terry Rozier & James Young would make a ton of sense for both sides... if Cleveland wasn't looming and making it a dumb idea by Boston to push any chips in yet), and by the time KP hits that stage Melo will be well on the decline, and you no longer need him for any "face of the franchise" reasons. The fans would totally buy into building around Kristaps. Orlando I see two things. Dusting off Channing Frye immensely helped their spacing (and I still don't understand why Phoenix let him go when they were trying to accelerate their rebuild, or why he got so little burn last year in Orlando), and separating/staggering Oladipo/Payton's minutes was a bold move that really works. You know, who cares who starts if 3 guards all play 32 minutes? Why would an OKC ever sit Russell Westbrook and KD at the same time, and bring them back in at the same time? Charlotte's the weirdest - I don't know if they'll keep it up (and they've already taken a large step back recently), but as much as I love so many parts of his game holy shit MKG's absence really improves that team. I always mocked my UConn friends that love Kemba Walker because shoot-first PG's who shoot below 40% are a detriment to the team, not a good player... but all of a sudden you add more spacing on that floor and he's up to 44% now. I thought he was in that hero ball range like JR Smith/Nick Young where he would just take 40% shots regardless of shot clock, or teammates, but maybe he really was much more hamstrung by his teammates than I realized. (Healthy) Nic Batum getting dropped into their laps also helps.

Western conference clearly I blew it on GS and to a lesser extent SA, but I'm never going to apologize for not picking any specific NBA team to win 60+ games! (And sorry GS fans, I'm still taking the under on them winning 77.2 games :p ) The Rockets dysfunction is well-known and not worth re-hashing. You build your team around super talented flakes like James Harden and Dwight Howard, sometimes you'll get burnt I guess. Everyone knew the Memphis slide was coming eventually, but it's happened sooner than anticipated. With New Orleans, even though I got the under, I certainly did not see this bad a team. Maybe I'm overrating the brow a little bit, because that's now 2 respected coaches who can't quite seem to get him to dominate every game like I think he can. I know they didn't have NBA perimeter players for a month+, but how does he not have a dRtg below 100 yet in his career? Why is he shooting 2 3's a game, or long jumpers, when he shoots 29% on them and should eat teams alive on the offensive glass? He's the ultimate rare freak 7 footer that should be crashing the offensive glass every time but can still manage to get back in transition defense. When AD (or Nerlens Noel) is out on the perimeter shooting long jumpers this pace and space stuff has gone too far. Everyone's binky Utah still might end up Over, but the Rudy Gobert injury happened, and even before that you see the problems inherent in building a team around big players but not having a true PG. Burks, and Hood, and especially Hayward are all really good players, but this team is one competent true PG away from reaching whatever potential they have (and I'm really intrigued to see it as a counter to all the teams pushing smallball). If Andre Miller was 3 years younger he would've been perfect... Jarrett Jack too until Sunday. Maybe Jose Calderon's a fit if NY does trade for future assets? And then we reach the Suns...

"Terrible" trades update: Brandon Knight is averaging 20-5-4 and coexisting pretty well with Bledsoe.So I avoided this initially because I feel it comes off as overly antagonistic, but as long as I'm going over my past positions, you still claiming this? Anyone still want to say Phoenix made the right move there? The Knight-Bledsoe pairing has been awkward, and has created some minor locker-room tension, according to sources familiar with the matter. Both thrive as lead ball-handlers, and Knight has bristled over the years whenever anyone has labeled him as something other than a pure point guard.I'm not even saying Knight's a bad player, but this is why you don't trade a probable top 7 pick just to pay max money to a 22y/o who 2 separate teams have already given up on. IT4 is an example of a player that 2 teams gave up on who is thriving, but that was trading a late 1st round pick for him and paying him $6.5m/y, not $15m/y. And I know that Lakers pick is still 50% likely to end up in the top 3 and be rolled over to next year, but ironically the signs of life they're showing right now make that less likely, as does Phoenix's complete collapse. And Phoenix technically is only 5 games out still, and they can blame it on the Bledsoe injury all they want, but this was happening before that happened. Though who knows, I love his attitude as a fan, but maybe Bledsoe is the real problem there - based on armchair psychoanalysis I can't imagine he's the easiest teammate to get along with. :confused: (Although the real answer is the owner. Get off Robert Sarver's lawn (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14499523/phoenix-suns-owner-robert-sarver-rails-markieff-morris-millennial-culture) kids. So freaking happy the Celtics have Grousbeck etc that give support where/if needed, but stay out of the way and let basketball people make the decisions.)

nol

01-06-2016, 05:22 PM

So I avoided this initially because I feel it comes off as overly antagonistic, but as long as I'm going over my past positions, you still claiming this? Anyone still want to say Phoenix made the right move there?

Yep, I still think Brandon Knight is better to have than some 2017 mid-late lottery pick (aka a high schooler) when the rest of the Suns' key players are in that 23-26 age range.

Philadelphia could've traded Carter-Williams for Knight straight up, and people killed them for doing the opposite.

I have no clue how you would single out that move in the first place when you are talking about an organization that spent like $50 million on Tyson Chandler, who is having his worst season as a pro while also taking playing time from the highest draft pick on Phoenix's roster, and salary dumped rotation players to chase a free agent who was extremely unlikely to sign and just as unlikely to make them a title contender had he signed.

Pretty similar situation in Milwaukee, too. Goes to show the perils of hastily declaring your team's rebuild over after winning 40-ish games in a season and then making drastic changes because you believe you're "just one player away."

Groundhog

01-06-2016, 06:25 PM

Thaddeus Young deserves to get traded to a contender and he'll probably stay stuck in that purgatory. :(

I've been a fan of Young ever since he came in the league. Doesn't really have a typical NBA game or position, but does a little bit of everything. Some of those Sixers squads weren't awful, but I hope he finds his way to a decent team now that he's entering what should be his prime.

Vince, Pt. II

01-06-2016, 06:51 PM

Pretty similar situation in Milwaukee, too. Goes to show the perils of hastily declaring your team's rebuild over after winning 40-ish games in a season and then making drastic changes because you believe you're "just one player away."

I feel like this is a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation. If you are in that 40-win zone, you're drafting low enough that you have to get lucky to get a true impact player, but you clearly need more than just a year of development (typically) to get over the hump. So you either go all-in to take the next step...or you do nothing. It seems much easier to defend an attempt to make your team better than to defend standing pat.

nol

01-07-2016, 12:33 PM

I feel like this is a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation. If you are in that 40-win zone, you're drafting low enough that you have to get lucky to get a true impact player, but you clearly need more than just a year of development (typically) to get over the hump. So you either go all-in to take the next step...or you do nothing. It seems much easier to defend an attempt to make your team better than to defend standing pat.

Except it's highly debatable that signing someone for big money who does not fit in with what previously brought the team success is any kind of reliable way to make a team better, or even as good as it previously was if you have to give up players to make it happen. If Milwaukee and Phoenix had done nothing this past offseason, it's very likely that both teams would be better! Even if those teams took a step back due to the league figuring them out, they'd be in the same position as they currently are but with more cap space and more opportunities to see the strengths/weaknesses of the future building blocks.

In the Knight trade, people thought Phoenix got absolutely robbed because of how overrated the value of Carter-Williams (he won ROY and averaged some amount of points/rebounds/assists, must be a future star!) and the Lakers' pick (they'll start playing better down the stretch and give away the pick, and if not they'll definitely be good enough to trade the pick away in 2015-16 - Kobe comes back and he's still good!) were at the time. Now that things have become a bit more clear, the trade had risks and benefits for each team involved, which I'd said at the time. If the #9 pick or whatever in 2017 ends up being a better player than Brandon Knight, that would be due to teams with higher draft picks really screwing up more than the Suns incorrectly judging the future value of the pick.

wustin

01-07-2016, 02:09 PM

Pelicans 47.5 UNDER (27.3)

lol

Vince, Pt. II

01-07-2016, 03:04 PM

Except it's highly debatable that signing someone for big money who does not fit in with what previously brought the team success is any kind of reliable way to make a team better, or even as good as it previously was if you have to give up players to make it happen. If Milwaukee and Phoenix had done nothing this past offseason, it's very likely that both teams would be better! Even if those teams took a step back due to the league figuring them out, they'd be in the same position as they currently are but with more cap space and more opportunities to see the strengths/weaknesses of the future building blocks.

In the Knight trade, people thought Phoenix got absolutely robbed because of how overrated the value of Carter-Williams (he won ROY and averaged some amount of points/rebounds/assists, must be a future star!) and the Lakers' pick (they'll start playing better down the stretch and give away the pick, and if not they'll definitely be good enough to trade the pick away in 2015-16 - Kobe comes back and he's still good!) were at the time. Now that things have become a bit more clear, the trade had risks and benefits for each team involved, which I'd said at the time. If the #9 pick or whatever in 2017 ends up being a better player than Brandon Knight, that would be due to teams with higher draft picks really screwing up more than the Suns incorrectly judging the future value of the pick.

Fair points, but when you say they'd be better, do you mean better than they are right now, or better than they were the prior year? Eventually you have to make SOME kind of move.

I totally understand the value of standing pat, I'm a Warriors fan. Looking back and wondering what would have happened had they actually traded for Kevin Love is terrifying. At the same token, the Monta Ellis / Andrew Bogut trade was an absolutely huge turning point and equally terrifying at the time.

nol

01-10-2016, 10:57 AM

Fair points, but when you say they'd be better, do you mean better than they are right now, or better than they were the prior year? Eventually you have to make SOME kind of move.

I meant than right now. Both Phoenix and Milwaukee could've taken a step back from last season and still been competitive (and in some cases, it wouldn't have automatically meant the players are now worthless or that all is doomed; sometimes it's a reversion of luck or teams around the league are just getting up to play you more than they did the previous year). If most a team's good players are in their early to mid twenties, those players' development over the course of a year or two will make more of a difference one way or another than just about any trade or free agency signing (especially if you're making one just to say you did).

Lionel Hollins just got fired and Billy King stepped down as GM in Brooklyn. It'll be interesting to see which names come up here.

whomario

01-18-2016, 05:38 AM

The Gift that keeps on giving:

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release the Boban ! :D

wustin

01-18-2016, 11:48 AM

wustin

01-18-2016, 07:55 PM

lol Vegas had Warriors losing to the Cavs tonight...

Vince, Pt. II

01-18-2016, 08:56 PM

I don't think this is what the Cavs had in mind when they said this was to be a statement game.

whomario

01-21-2016, 01:28 PM

I don't think the Warriors will reach 67 wins this season. They turn the ball over too much and Walton looks like a deer in headlights whenever the team is in a slump.

Also Curry should not be taking half court shots with over 15 seconds left on the shot clock. The defense will let you take that kind of shot any time you want so go set up a play for a better look instead.

so, about that ... ;) The Warriors came out flat a couple times (and did so early in the season as well), like any team not constructed out of Robots would in an 82 game season. And the term "slump" is to be used veeery loosely when talking about the Warriors, who created some insane Expectation with their play.

And Curry taking those shots is a large reason why opposing teams scramble like mad from the moment the Warriors take possession. It´s absolutely a fine line and in a vacuum some of his shots are downright stupid, but for every crazy missed shot there are 2 easy baskets created by the defenses reaction to those shots (not to mention the stupid shots he makes ;) ).

wustin

01-21-2016, 02:25 PM

so, about that ... ;) The Warriors came out flat a couple times (and did so early in the season as well), like any team not constructed out of Robots would in an 82 game season. And the term "slump" is to be used veeery loosely when talking about the Warriors, who created some insane Expectation with their play.

And Curry taking those shots is a large reason why opposing teams scramble like mad from the moment the Warriors take possession. It´s absolutely a fine line and in a vacuum some of his shots are downright stupid, but for every crazy missed shot there are 2 easy baskets created by the defenses reaction to those shots (not to mention the stupid shots he makes ;) ).

I guess that Detroit game was a huge wakeup call, it was a needed loss I guess. Can't wait for the Spurs game on Monday.

And the Cavs are awful on defense. Love has no idea how to defend a screen and Klay had an awful shooting night but he killed them off all the pick and rolls and backdoor screens.

RainMaker

01-21-2016, 02:46 PM

Got to see the Warriors in person last night. They sure are fun.

whomario

01-21-2016, 04:14 PM

And Steph Curry has still only slipped barely below 30 ppg (29.9) while hitting the next best thing to 5 triples a game on 51/45/91 shooting percentages. He´s already over 2/3 to his own 3 point made record (and has made 50% more, 67 total, than Klay Thompsons who is No2).

Vince, Pt. II

01-21-2016, 05:23 PM

I wonder how Steph will end up stacking up on a points per minute basis - he sits for huge swaths of games, and still ends up scoring a ton.

nol

01-21-2016, 11:46 PM

If the season ended today, the Kings would be in the playoffs. They're 7-3 in January and Cousins is averaging 30.9 points, 13.8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.8 steals, and 1.1 blocks during that time.

Brian Swartz

01-22-2016, 04:12 AM

Seems to me there's a whole lot of over-reacting going on in all directions. Not to be contrary just for the sake of it, but ...

so, about that ... The Warriors came out flat a couple times (and did so early in the season as well), like any team not constructed out of Robots would in an 82 game season

Truth on both sides here. Nothing to worry about with Golden State losing a couple of games certainly, but the fact that their defense has been inconsistent since the opening month(16th I think over an extended stretch) and the turnovers are things to be concerned about. Kudos to them for actually being concerned about it, and a big reason why they are as good as they are I think. They get it, and in general have their eye on the prize.

the Cavs are awful on defense. Love has no idea how to defend a screen and Klay had an awful shooting night but he killed them off all the pick and rolls and backdoor screens.

Well, the Warriors can make most any defense look bad. That's why they are who they are :). Cleveland's D is going to struggle against elite teams because of Love to an extent, but Golden State did have one of their worst offensive games earlier in the year against the same team. One game means ... pretty much jack at this point of the season, something all the overhype about Spurs-Warriors would do well to keep in mind. It's exciting of course because of how good the teams are, but it really doesn't matter a whole lot who wins or by how much in the grand scheme of things.

Anyway, if the Cavs' defense is 'awful', then the only half-decent defensive team in the league is the Spurs. They're 5th out of 30, and not far behind #2 which is presently Golden State. Just sayin'.

Groundhog

01-22-2016, 04:39 AM

As someone who watches a lot of Cavs games, their defense is most definitely not awful - they just happen to match-up horribly with Golden State. Really, really horribly. I mean, with Green at the 4, very few teams matchup well with the Warriors, but with Love and Mozgov - two slow-footed guys who struggle against the speed and shooting ability the Warriors have on p'n'rs - the Cavs are particularly susceptible.

Cavs are a bad offensive team though, who get by on the fact that they have LeBron, Kyrie (once healthy and in shape), the occasional big game from Love, and a rotation of guys who are capable of putting points up in spurts.

I kinda hope the Cavs don't do anything drastic as far as trading away guys to get pieces they hope will matchup well with the Warriors specifically. Warriors are the best and deepest team in the league, and nobody the Cavs trade or trade for is probably going to change that. Hope that the Spurs or Thunder or someone beats them and just keep your guys together and hopefully healthy.

whomario

01-22-2016, 05:57 AM

Spurs blow out the Suns (who are admittedly not good) without Duncan and Parker. (and Manu playing 5 minutes and Aldridge scoring 7 points).

Boban with 17/14 and averages 25/15 per 36 minutes (on 61% shooting, 74% FT on 9 Attempts per 36). Guy is not going to hold up as a full time starter with that level of production long term i think (due to matchup issues and teams adjusting), but likely the best mop-up/bottom rotation/change of pace Big Man in the league and will be a solid guy for a few years after Duncan rides off into the sunset eventually. Its refreshing to see a guy like that actually get fed the ball and used rather than just being in there to take 6 fouls and occupy space. Go Spurs :)

Ajaxab

01-22-2016, 08:20 AM

I don't know if the Spurs or the Warriors have the deepest bench, but if this piece (http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-spurs-bench-could-probably-make-the-playoffs-on-its-own/) is to be believed, the Spurs have by far the most productive bench.

I guess that helps them put up so many blowouts. I was surprised to see that SA had 11 25+ point wins before last night and 12 after the win over PHX. CLE was second with 4. GS had 3.

I'll be interested to see how Monday night's game goes. I think GS wins, but if SA should pull the upset, the top of the West might be up for grabs.

wustin

01-22-2016, 08:45 AM

It shouldn't be considered an upset if SA wins. GS is the team to beat but I'm pretty sure a lot of people think that SA is the best team in the league.

whomario

01-22-2016, 09:03 AM

To illustrate this in a more straight forward stat: Spurs actually have an average Margin of Victory of 14.53 currently, which would be the best in History over a full season. The other 3 teams above +12 are the 71/72 Lakers (12.28), 70/71 Bucks (12.26) and of course the 95/96 Bulls (12.24).
Warriors would be in 5th with their current +12.14

Spurs have just so many players, whose only defect is that they likely would struggle in a larger role/on higher minutes (due to age or natural limitations) but are perfectly suited for their current role. And as i said before, every one of their bench players is really, really good at some things on the court. (as in: Way better than even an average starter good) and complement each other and the starters very well.

nol

01-22-2016, 09:56 AM

If the Warriors end up winning around 72 games and are favored over the Spurs in a playoff series, I'd definitely go with San Antonio. The regular season games between the two won't tell much either way.

As I said a few pages back, 72 wins is a grueling pace and it just takes a game or two to go from "OMG will they ever lose" to them being on the same pace as the other hot starts in league history. It works the other direction too; the Sixers are 5-8 in the last 13 games and would still do well to keep the Lakers out of the #1 lottery spot, but ending up with the worst record in NBA history is not going to happen.

whomario

01-22-2016, 10:51 AM

JonInMiddleGA

01-22-2016, 10:54 AM

as an aside: Has anyone read any explanation as to what group voted so damn ferociously for Zaza Pachulia as an All Star Starter ? Since Dirk has about 1/5 of his votes we can safely assume it was not Mavs Fans and since this is the first time this happened i somehow doubt it was his countrymen who suddenly became aware of his existence ...

Actually it does appear to have been based on a push from international voting, mostly from his native Georgia (and I do NOT mean Hawks fans that remember him).

You never know what will get viral suddenly, even when it never did before.

whomario

01-22-2016, 11:00 AM

yeah, i just saw that after i posted (as it so often happens ...). But from what i saw it ended up being mostly ignorant teenagers retweeting from "Internet Stars".

The whole process is dumb as it is. I don´t mind naming the starters based on popularity, but it ought to be basketball fans votes, not random people out for retweets (or whatever).

Should not be that hard to connect in some way (going to the digital ballots of up until a couple years or three ago at least took some sort of effort)

JonInMiddleGA

01-22-2016, 12:15 PM

The whole process is dumb as it is. I don´t mind naming the starters based on popularity, but it ought to be basketball fans votes, not random people out for retweets (or whatever).

Should not be that hard to connect in some way (going to the digital ballots of up until a couple years or three ago at least took some sort of effort)

The NBA likely prefers to engage non-fans for this, that seems to be their general m.o. With them, pretty much everything is a marketing tool above all else.

nol

01-22-2016, 12:27 PM

Also bears mentioning that fan voting in the NBA has not resulted in anywhere near the amount of idiocy one sees in the NHL or the MLB All Star games.

nol

01-22-2016, 02:56 PM

Well, apparently David Blatt got fired. Are we going to have Tyronn Lue coaching the East All-Stars or what?

Karlifornia

01-22-2016, 02:58 PM

Surprising.

bronconick

01-22-2016, 03:14 PM

LeBron should just be the GM, but he'd probably have to take a pay cut.

murrayyyyy

01-22-2016, 03:16 PM

Well, apparently David Blatt got fired. Are we going to have Tyronn Lue coaching the East All-Stars or what?

That will fix things, now those 3 guys who need the ball in their hands all the time will be able to do it :confused:

nol

01-22-2016, 03:23 PM

That will fix things, now those 3 guys who need the ball in their hands all the time will be able to do it :confused:

When you really think about it, it's more likely that a move this drastic will light a fire under the current players than it is that the Cavs could do something like trade Kevin Love back for Andrew Wiggins or another player who would help them be more competitive with the Warriors/Spurs.

murrayyyyy

01-22-2016, 03:26 PM

When you really think about it, it's more likely that a move this drastic will light a fire under the current players than it is that the Cavs could do something like trade Kevin Love back for Andrew Wiggins or another player who would help them be more competitive with the Warriors/Spurs.

Not really, just think it's a dysfunctional franchise, just like the one who fired Mike Brown for winning 60+ back to back years.

My first piece of evidence is they have already signed Ty Lue to a multiyear contract since announcing they fired Blatt in the last 30 mins.

whomario

01-22-2016, 03:27 PM

Seemed to be inevitable. Guess their owner/management is blinded by the Big 3 into thinking they ought to be better than "merely" a 60 win team (which they are on pace to be). That roster is not that good past Lebron/Irving and maybe Love. At least not compared to the Spurs and Warriors. They are about on par with the Thunder, which in many seasons would give them a really good chance at being the leagues best team. There just happen to be 2 historically great teams around right now ...
And Kyrie, Shumpert and Mo Williams have all missed large chunks of the season, Mozgov is still getting into things after surgery. And yes, the fact that Mo Williams being out is a legit excuse tells you sth about their roster.

That will fix things, now those 3 guys who need the ball in their hands all the time will be able to do it :confused:

Maybe they´ll actually be better, but if that´d be a sign of Lues ability or the players (read Lebron) inability to actually be coached. Lue will let them be and try to work it out themselves i guess.

Hope Blatt gets another job with a young team with players that are actually coachable.

EDIT: Blatts final statement as a Cavs coach (and before knowing he´d be fired):

"It's about my team," he said. "It's about my guys and I don't like it. I don't like it at all. My guys are out there fighting for the Cavaliers and doing the best job they can in a tough NBA -- very tough -- especially because this is a team that night after night has a target on its back. They go out there and they fight and they play and they deal with adversity like we've had to deal with all year. We are far from perfect and we are still not at our best, but it's not for lack of effort."
Which is what he´s always done and which is why his prior teams were always willing to execute for him.

Vince, Pt. II

01-22-2016, 03:36 PM

That's kind of crazy. I guess it does send that message out, but still.

whomario

01-22-2016, 03:40 PM

That's kind of crazy. I guess it does send that message out, but still.

Is "Its the coachs fault, you guys are awesome" really the message you´d want to send, though ?

Blatt should go to the Warriors as an Assistant for the Rest of the season ;) (Kerr wanted him there before he got offered the Cavs job)

Vince, Pt. II

01-22-2016, 03:51 PM

Is "Its the coachs fault, you guys are awesome" really the message you´d want to send, though ?

Blatt should go to the Warriors as an Assistant for the Rest of the season ;) (Kerr wanted him there before he got offered the Cavs job)

That would be amazing.

nol

01-22-2016, 03:51 PM

Is "Its the coachs fault, you guys are awesome" really the message you´d want to send, though ?

You say that as though the trade deadline has already passed.

Also they're on pace for 60 wins despite injuries and their schedule will surely be easier the rest of the season of only by virtue of having gotten 3 of the 4 Spurs/Warriors matchups out of the way. If the past 5+ years is any indication, a LeBron James team can win around 60 games and make the Finals on autopilot, so there is not much downside to a coaching change.

whomario

01-22-2016, 04:02 PM

You say that as though the trade deadline has already passed.

No, i merely say that as though that firing does not "send the message out" ;)

But if i were to go further: If they see the Roster at fault and can find a solution via trade, that does not make this any better. Because then as an organization you recognize that you just fired the coach that reached the finals despite injuries (and possibly lost due to them) and was on track to do so again despite a flawed roster.

The real sad thing is that Blatt did his best work with PFs that can shoot and Point-Forward type SFs and played set tailor-made for guys like Lebron and Love. Heck, the Cavs even run some of it pretty successfully for a while before going back to the "pound, pound, pound" offense.

stevew

01-22-2016, 04:29 PM

Blatt should have been fired midway thru the season last year. I am looking forward to seeing what Ty can do with his chance.

JonInMiddleGA

01-22-2016, 04:52 PM

This one seems like a mixed bag. Blatt very likely IS in over his head, but I don't know that another coach is going to change their trajectory in any significant way either.

For consistency sake I'll buy the argument that there's at least a chance the change might make some difference but honestly I don't believe this one will unless there's a major roster overhaul to go with it.

Brian Swartz

01-22-2016, 04:58 PM

Blatt should have been fired midway thru the season last year. I am looking forward to seeing what Ty can do with his chance.

Couldn't disagree more. I'm officially rooting against the Cavaliers from here on out. If they wanted to fire Blatt, they needed to do it in the off-season. My question is, how does being as noted on a 60-win pace, with the injuries they've had, tell you he's not cut out for this -- but you thought he was worth keeping around after last year when they were two wins short of the title? Just makes no sense to me and seems the organization is desperate.

MrBug708

01-22-2016, 05:23 PM

Is luke Walton a good coach or is he just letting a well oiled machine keep on trucking? I have a Warriors friend who thinks he's a top 5 coach

whomario

01-22-2016, 05:43 PM

Why can´t it be both ? After all he hasn´t taken over coming from the outside, but has been part of the process. It´s been no secret that Kerr actually listens to his assistants input (contrary to how Jackson handled things f.e.) and to me always seemed fine with it being a shared project with him as figurehead and the guy making the final decision rather than the guy having a need to come up with everything. As said, he also pushed to hire Blatt.
No one will be able to answer this one way or another for another few years, but at the very least you can assume there were very good reasons the Warriors/Kerr chose him as the lead assistant and then as Interim.

nol

01-22-2016, 05:47 PM

Couldn't disagree more. I'm officially rooting against the Cavaliers from here on out. If they wanted to fire Blatt, they needed to do it in the off-season. My question is, how does being as noted on a 60-win pace, with the injuries they've had, tell you he's not cut out for this -- but you thought he was worth keeping around after last year when they were two wins short of the title? Just makes no sense to me and seems the organization is desperate.

Seems? They are trying to win a championship and there are two historically good teams clearly ahead of them. Nothing wrong with being desperate there.

The whole point is that it certainly could backfire, which barring a LeBron injury just means they drop a few more games in the playoffs before losing in the Finals.

Groundhog

01-22-2016, 06:03 PM

I don't know what was going on behind closed doors in Cleveland, but seems crazy to me to fire the coach of a team that just made the finals and is on pace to be the #1 seed in the east. It was clear LeBron was never onboard with Blatt - I don't know how many timeouts I've seen Cleveland take, only to have LeBron come out and run an iso play - but was he really the problem here? Kyrie and Love are bad defenders - those are the biggest issues with the Cavs right now. I don't see Lue fixing either of those things.

nol

01-22-2016, 06:10 PM

whomario

01-22-2016, 06:31 PM

Right, no defensive scheme could fix these problens, but firing the coach at least brings some chance of making the players realize that the current amount of effort is not going to cut it.

Again i ask: Does it really ? This is telling the players that the scheme was wrong, not that their effort was lackluster.

nol

01-22-2016, 08:20 PM

Again i ask: Does it really ? This is telling the players that the scheme was wrong, not that their effort was lackluster.

Nope, it's been pretty well-documented that Lue has been in charge of the defense, so the scheme on that end will in all likelihood be the same.

whomario

01-23-2016, 06:37 AM

Nope, it's been pretty well-documented that Lue has been in charge of the defense, so the scheme on that end will in all likelihood be the same.

Let me rephrase: Firing the coach they don´t like tells the players their effort was lackluster ?

I actually get why the Cavs might feel they had to do this. It just irks me wrong that this bunch and especially Lebron refused to even give this "being coached thing" a chance. Especially since Lebron saw what good could happen if you allow that in Miami.

Rick Carlisle with some choice words: http://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2016/1/22/10817696/rick-carlisle-on-david-blatts-firing-im-embarrassed-for-our-league

cuervo72

01-23-2016, 08:28 AM

This is like Chip Kelly, but in reverse!

duckman

01-23-2016, 08:32 AM

Adrian Wojnarowski is telling a much different narrative than the one other sources are saying. Sounds like LeBron is trying to sell the media that Blatt was incompetent and cater to star players, but really he wanted his guy as head coach because they share the same agent.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-david-blatt-never-stood-a-chance-with-lebron-james-and-his-camp-035612484.html

miami_fan

01-23-2016, 09:43 AM

This is like Chip Kelly, but in reverse!

It is funny I thought of Chip Kelly as well. My thought was Blatt has to be regretting not doing things his way. I think he was unprepared for what he was walking into last season. The whole "I am not a rookie" thing just smacked of insecurity. I really would have liked to see what this team would have done with the motion offense that he wanted to put in. I am not prepared to say the players got him fired. Blatt was far from perfect. I will say that the players did not fight for his job. Ultimately, this goes to the front office for the way this roster is built imo.

nol

01-23-2016, 09:49 AM

I actually get why the Cavs might feel they had to do this. It just irks me wrong that this bunch and especially Lebron refused to even give this "being coached thing" a chance. Especially since Lebron saw what good could happen if you allow that in Miami.

Coaches who have won championships in the last 20 years: Jackson, Popovich, Larry Brown, Pat Riley, Carlisle, Rivers, Kerr, Spoelstra. Spoelstra is the worst coach on the list by a comfortable margin. Miami won titles with better talent surrounding LeBron and worse competition among the Western teams (and the Spurs team the Heat beat in 12-13 was great, just not as good as this years' Spurs or Warriors, who could both end up being one of the top 5 teams in NBA history), so saying it was because LeBron got coached up to become a champion is pretty disingenuous.

I think David Blatt did well for a new coach in that situation - I was probably the only one besides you not freaking out about the Chicago series last season. I think the Wolves would be wise to try bringing him in over Sam Mitchell ASAP, but you cannot objectively look at that list of coaches and say Blatt is good enough that you absolutely have to stand pat.

Ultimately, this goes to the front office for the way this roster is built imo.

And none of the above is to say that LeBron had no role in the decision. Of course he did; I'm just willing to give him enough credit to say it wasn't necessarily the wrong decision. It was certainly a worse decision on his part to want to team with Kevin Love rather than Andrew Wiggins, a move that was predictably short-sighted.

miami_fan

01-23-2016, 09:54 AM

Speaking of coaching preparedness. JB Bickerstaff is now coaching a roster with Harden, Howard, Lawson, and Josh Smith. Good luck with that young fella.

whomario

01-23-2016, 11:45 AM

so saying it was because LeBron got coached up to become a champion is pretty disingenuous.

I am not saying Spoelstra taught him things, i am saying Lebron allowed himself to be coached and be put into positions on the court (to actually run plays) where he benefitted the team the most. He played off the ball and he even moved his but into the Post. Both things he removed completely upon leaving Miami and apparently made it clear from the get go. He completely morphed back into iso-Bron.

nol

01-23-2016, 12:00 PM

I am not saying Spoelstra taught him things, i am saying Lebron allowed himself to be coached and be put into positions on the court (to actually run plays) where he benefitted the team the most. He played off the ball and he even moved his but into the Post. Both things he removed completely upon leaving Miami and apparently made it clear from the get go. He completely morphed back into iso-Bron.

It's pretty clear to me at least that he is more selective about when to post up. Iso-Bron is good enough to get out of the Eastern Conference with one or both of Love and Irving unavailable, so what extra benefit does the team stand to gain from allowing him to take that extra pounding during the regular season when the only way to win the Finals is through some combination of a superhuman all-around effort from LeBron and the eventual West winner picking up injuries along the way?

RainMaker

01-23-2016, 12:17 PM

I am not saying Spoelstra taught him things, i am saying Lebron allowed himself to be coached and be put into positions on the court (to actually run plays) where he benefitted the team the most. He played off the ball and he even moved his but into the Post. Both things he removed completely upon leaving Miami and apparently made it clear from the get go. He completely morphed back into iso-Bron.

He's in his 13th year and has a bum back. Some of the stuff he did in Miami I just don't think he's capable of doing on a nightly basis anymore.

That Cleveland team has a boatload of talent but it's kind of weirdly built. They have a lot of quality bigs but can't play them when they go against the top West teams. It's basically a team built to destroy the East and get destroyed by the West in the Finals.

JonInMiddleGA

01-23-2016, 01:48 PM

espn.com has a fairly detailed piece on all the signs that this was coming, maybe even the reasons it was inevitable.

NBA - The final unraveling of David Blatt (http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/14629892/nba-final-unraveling-david-blatt)

Now I know we love to try to parse out the ulterior motives in ESPN stuff, and there's certainly a sense of the piece basically justifying the coaching change. It points out numerous things that LBJ didn't do to exacerbate things but also doesn't entirely shy away from highlighting the parts he played in moving things toward this end either. That might almost be considered relatively fair/objective writing IMO.

From the article, honestly, I think you might draw the conclusion that Blatt lost the team -- or even lost his chance to ever have the team -- from his very first NBA win.

It also makes another good point that somewhat defends Blatt: that the team he ended up coaching really isn't the team he was hired to coach. He was hired with the expectation of coaching Wiggins, he ended up with Bron & Kevin Love.

Blatt being a legit NBA coach remains a possibility IMO, but I came away from the article pretty convinced that he was not the right man for the job in Cleveland at this point.

RainMaker

01-23-2016, 02:06 PM

Stars will always dictate how things play out with a coach. If they don't buy in, you're almost obligated to make a move. Seems like they just didn't buy in to him.

Still skeptical of anything Windhorst writes about Lebron as he's mostly just his PR guy at this point.

nol

01-23-2016, 02:12 PM

And on the flip side, the one part of the Woj article that actually talks about David Blatt as something other than a helpless pawn in LeBron James' single-minded mission to personally enrich himself and his sports agency is a sentence that basically says "yeah he did struggle adjusting to the increased complexity of the NBA game."

That's all it is. The team doesn't need anything in the way of teaching. It needs to beat a better team in the Finals, and for that to happen there needs to be some luck and there can be absolutely no slippage in terms of any in-game adjustments.

RainMaker

01-23-2016, 02:30 PM

nol

01-23-2016, 03:06 PM

Yeah I don't get Woj's article either. The agent commission off a coach isn't all that much in his world.

Lets say he got a coach hired for $5 million a year. A commission of 4-10% isn't exactly huge for a guy worth what Lebron is worth.

In Woj's world, his closest and most reliable sources are agents (think about it, he is most known for announcing where players are going to be drafted or sign as free agents before it officially happens), and I can't imagine a bunch of established guys with JDs or whatever are going to have too many nice things to say about how LeBron James' homie from high school is rivaling them or bettering them in terms of clients/influence/etc.

JonInMiddleGA

01-23-2016, 04:31 PM

Seems like they just didn't buy in to him.

That first story in the article though -- his reaction to their first-win celebration -- makes it seem doubtful to me that he even understands the concept.

edit to add: He can hold whatever view of his ability or rightful authority or credibility or whateveryouwanttocallit that he chooses. But even a hardass like me grasps the reality that how others view it WILL make a difference in the outcome.

Groundhog

01-23-2016, 08:11 PM

LeBron's body language today is about 10x better than I've seen since he came back to Cleveland.

miami_fan

01-23-2016, 08:51 PM

Tyronn has one of those Phil Jackson thrones on the sidelines.

JonInMiddleGA

01-23-2016, 09:11 PM

I hadn't thought about this until I saw an article on it but .... nobody is sure who is going to coach either team in the all star game at the moment.

Just like Blatt is unlikely to be able to coach the East, Kerr wasn't eligible to coach the West (no back to back years now) but there's a question of whether Walton -- despite being officially credited with zero wins -- might be allowed to go instead of Popovich.

miami_fan

01-23-2016, 09:21 PM

I am not sure why Lue would not be the coach. His team will probably have the best record, right?

miami_fan

01-23-2016, 09:22 PM

Hell let Walton coach and have Kerr and Blatt as his assistants.

Groundhog

01-23-2016, 09:30 PM

Welp, looks like Lue didn't magically install a competent offense overnight.

JonInMiddleGA

01-23-2016, 09:52 PM

I am not sure why Lue would not be the coach. His team will probably have the best record, right?

Lue has suggested that the honor belongs to Blatt, and that he'll do it in order to get the staff the honor but that he'd prefer it to be Blatt.

Granted, maybe that's just good p.r. but that's why the subject has come up.

nol

01-23-2016, 11:24 PM

I don't know if it's something in the water tonight, but these are definitely two of the funniest sequences of the season.

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Guys. It's come to this. <a href="https://t.co/2MATXbgsXc">https://t.co/2MATXbgsXc</a></p>— BBALLBREAKDOWN (@bballbreakdown) <a href="https://twitter.com/bballbreakdown/status/691123589685366785">January 24, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Not sure what sport this is but it looks amazing <a href="https://t.co/xCqoGR1CI7">pic.twitter.com/xCqoGR1CI7</a></p>— Ben Golliver (@BenGolliver) <a href="https://twitter.com/BenGolliver/status/691112490927673344">January 24, 2016</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

whomario

01-24-2016, 05:28 AM

1) I am shocked (shocked !!) that Dennis Schroeder is now a player that slows things down and thinks before romping forward, thus sadly ending this hilarious back and forth ;)

2) This needs the Benny Hill theme treatment

Vince, Pt. II

01-24-2016, 12:54 PM

The Warriors have reportedly recalled Kevon Looney from their D-League affiliate. He was averaging 8 points and 10 rebounds in 18 minutes there. If he can provide solid backup minutes at the 4, that will be a tremendous help for the Warriors' bench.

Brian Swartz

01-25-2016, 05:06 AM

I think the ASG coaches will be Lue and Popovich. There's some talk about letting Walton coach, but if he coaches then Blatt should too and the NBA has already said Lue is the East coach if Cleveland is in first.

Interesting food for thought: after the Spurs-Warriors game, the two teams will still have less losses, combined, than any other NBA team. LOL @ Popovich holding out Duncan for basically precautionary reasons, and love Kerr's response(that he needs a day off now and then since he's '57 years old').

I love me some Rick Carlisle. He'd be my pick if I had to choose a coach(non-Popovich category).

Stan Van Gundy's comment the other day about the Pistons being 'firmly committed to being mediocre' sums up the team better than anything I can say. Will be interesting to see what happens if those habits don't change in the next year or two.

I don't know if it's something in the water tonight, but these are definitely two of the funniest sequences of the season.

Not much in the NBA makes me laugh. I've watched both a few times and I'm not sure I believe them. Kobe's lovely baseline jumper off the side of the backboard to Randle so he could get swatted by GINOBILI! a few days back was great also.

Toronto seems to be emerging as the East's least dysfunctional, and is worth rooting for even if there's no other reason to.

I hope Sacramento does make the playoffs. They'd spice up the first round, and Karl always gives good soundbite.

Brian Swartz

01-25-2016, 09:37 PM

Was reminded of how nice corners of the internet like this are with generally intelligent sports fans today. Read some stuff on Golden State-oriented fan sites and the general opinion was of the variety that this is going to be a super-high scoring game with the Spurs because of the way San Antonio has copied the GSW way with the super-high tempo they are playing this year.

Except of course, than San Antonio is playing slower this year, which with the Aldridge addition you would expect. 25th in pace according to the Hollinger measure.

Much rather discuss things with the group here who usually know what they are talking about, even if we don't always agree.

Groundhog

01-25-2016, 10:09 PM

A lot of uncharacteristic turnovers from the Spurs in that 1st Q.

Groundhog

01-25-2016, 10:49 PM

Warriors playing like the Warriors, Spurs handling the ball like it's a bar of soap. Lucky to be only down 15.

kingfc22

01-25-2016, 11:27 PM

In the past week, Warriors have destroyed the Cavs, Bulls and Spurs by what will end up likely ranging between 80-95 points.

Groundhog

01-25-2016, 11:51 PM

I didn't catch the Bulls game, but to me this just looks like 'one of those games' by the Spurs, a lot more than it did the Cavs. Looking forward to GSW@SAS.

nol

01-25-2016, 11:52 PM

If the season ended today, the Kings would be in the playoffs. They're 7-3 in January and Cousins is averaging 30.9 points, 13.8 rebounds, 3 assists, 1.8 steals, and 1.1 blocks during that time.

Spoke way too soon here. Cousins has scored 48 and 56 (and counting) points in his two games since that post.

Vince, Pt. II

01-26-2016, 12:15 AM

It's just one game, and opinions are going to be WAY overblown due to the outcome...but man was that fun to watch.

I feel like San Antonio got no calls all game. It seemed that every single possible 50/50 call went the Warriors' way. It wasn't a poorly officiated game by any means, but it just felt like all the bounces were going the way of Golden State. After the first quarter, when the Spurs turned it over 8 times and the Warriors were only up 6, I thought it was a bad sign that they hadn't capitalized on the turnovers and the Spurs were never going to maintain that pace of bad play. Turns out, they could.

Surprised me that the Spurs came out running with the Warriors - it seemed like they did nothing to slow the game down at all. I wonder how much of that is Popp not tipping his hand because he could give two shits less about the regular season.

Was reminded of how nice corners of the internet like this are with generally intelligent sports fans today. Read some stuff on Golden State-oriented fan sites and the general opinion was of the variety that this is going to be a super-high scoring game with the Spurs because of the way San Antonio has copied the GSW way with the super-high tempo they are playing this year.

Except of course, than San Antonio is playing slower this year, which with the Aldridge addition you would expect. 25th in pace according to the Hollinger measure.

Much rather discuss things with the group here who usually know what they are talking about, even if we don't always agree.

I really can't stand the Warriors blogs I have found. Which is super disappointing, because I love the San Francisco Giants blog and it really adds to my enjoyment of the baseball season.

whomario

01-26-2016, 12:28 AM

So, who is taking over for Pop ? ;)

Warriors are amazing this season

Charlotte is a really likable team, despite bad luck on the injury front they continue to be in the playoff race and are really hard working and well coached. Tonight it was troy Daniels stepping up big.

Brian Swartz

01-26-2016, 01:09 AM

Apparently he liked that joke too.

Popovich: "I'm just glad my general manager wasn't in the locker room. I might have gotten fired."

wustin

01-26-2016, 02:29 AM

Aldridge played like poop, Leonard got lit up by Curry multiple times. No kind of facade Pop was putting on can hide that.

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/funnymunny77/Vine_by_LoveShaq%208_zpsz9g2zkub.gif

Brian Swartz

01-26-2016, 02:56 AM

Except of course that isn't what he did. He said multiple times the game was like 'men and boys'. And it was.

whomario

01-26-2016, 04:24 AM

Groundhog

01-26-2016, 05:54 AM

In the long term the game won't mean much, but I think putting Kawhi on Curry was a good idea just to see whether it's a good option or not in the post season, and today showed that it's not - the kind of shots Curry takes and makes are the kind of bad shots that you try and force shooters to take, and Curry is quick enough to get around Kawhi when he plays him real tight. Better off using Kawhi to try neutralise Green or Klay and just hope Curry doesn't drop 40+ on you.

nol

01-26-2016, 10:15 AM

Putting this on Leonard would be kinda short changing Curry, who again made at least 6 or 7 shots/moves that no one on earth can replicate or defend. Curry is at the point, where he can score 30 on decent (say 45 %) shooting even if he is defended incredibly well. Things that normally work on shooting guards (not SGs, the literal kind) fail because a) his release is so quick, b) he never slows and allows defenders to adjust their stance and c) is equally good driving with either hand. On him, a longer defender is not the solution but at a mismatch.

In other news: Either Blake Griffin broke his hand punching a teammate/coach or the Clippers need better codes as he "broke his hand in a team related incident" ...

I'd say the Spurs almost missed Tim Duncan (even though this game could certainly cement his DPOY candidacy, along with his current league-high rate in many advanced defensive statistics such as DRPM) more on the offensive end last night because once you get cute on trying to cross-match the Warriors, you have to be able to beat them up inside and score enough to prevent their transition game from being too much of a factor.

I'll have to ask about it later today, but I wouldn't rule out an inanimate object as the hand breaker here.

Vince, Pt. II

01-26-2016, 10:33 AM

whomario

01-26-2016, 10:44 AM

The big thing for me, once Duncan was sitting (and you cannot understate how big that was), was that the Spurs didn't do anything to dictate flow or pace. It's going to be a very different game when Duncan is in and the Spurs are slowing it down.

The thing that disapointed me in that regard is that Pop did not at least test out Marjanovic before the game was decided. Especially the way Aldridge struggled as the 5 on the floor.

TroyF

01-26-2016, 11:03 AM

Reports are coming out that Blake Griffin broke his hand when he punched a Clippers staffer and will miss multiple weeks because of it. The reports are stating he punched the guy multiple times.

So my quick fire thoughts:

1) NBA players are seriously the worst fighters I've ever seen. It doesn't shock me at all that one of them wouldn't understand how to throw a punch correctly.

2) Really Blake? The assistant trainer who you could get fired in three seconds?

3) I guess the Warriors will be lucky the Clippers are going through all of this again and may not have to face them. The Warriors are LUCKY they didn't have to face a team who blew a 20+ fourth quarter lead in a playoff game and should feel very LUCKY that Blake decided to go all MMA on a staff member. If it wasn't for those two things, the Clippers would have had a title last year and wouldn't be 13 games back this year.

Unbelievable.

Karlifornia

01-26-2016, 11:53 AM

3) I guess the Warriors will be lucky the Clippers are going through all of this again and may not have to face them. The Warriors are LUCKY they didn't have to face a team who blew a 20+ fourth quarter lead in a playoff game and should feel very LUCKY that Blake decided to go all MMA on a staff member. If it wasn't for those two things, the Clippers would have had a title last year and wouldn't be 13 games back this year.

Unbelievable.

Is this sarcasm?

Neuqua

01-26-2016, 11:59 AM

Is this sarcasm?

Ask Doc Rivers.

TroyF

01-26-2016, 01:58 PM

Is this sarcasm?

You must have missed the Rivers quote earlier thus year where he said Golden State was lucky they didnt face the Spurs or Clippers. It didnt stop there either.The Clippers fans and players have been singing that same tune all year. (They just do it real quiet like now that the Warriors are running through the league.

Here in LA I had to give up on sports talk there was so much of that garbage.

AENeuman

01-26-2016, 02:45 PM

In the long term the game won't mean much, but I think putting Kawhi on Curry was a good idea just to see whether it's a good option or not in the post season, and today showed that it's not -

The local radio guys were pushing this idea that the Warriors are crushing the spirit of teams. Cited Memphis, Houston, Cav beatdowns and Clipper comeback as examples of teams that spiraled downward after playing the Warriors.

If that's true (and of course it isn't the full story) I wonder if it will affect a superstar like Kawhi.

whomario

01-26-2016, 02:52 PM

Would maybe be the first time in 15 years that anything had a lasting negative effect on the Spurs ... ;)

cartman

01-26-2016, 03:12 PM

http://si.wsj.net/public/resources/images/PJ-BO886_SP_HOF_G_20130617160142.jpg

TroyF

01-26-2016, 03:43 PM

The local radio guys were pushing this idea that the Warriors are crushing the spirit of teams. Cited Memphis, Houston, Cav beatdowns and Clipper comeback as examples of teams that spiraled downward after playing the Warriors.

If that's true (and of course it isn't the full story) I wonder if it will affect a superstar like Kawhi.

That guy? No way in hell.

Groundhog

01-26-2016, 04:38 PM

wustin

01-26-2016, 08:47 PM

You must have missed the Rivers quote earlier thus year where he said Golden State was lucky they didnt face the Spurs or Clippers. It didnt stop there either.The Clippers fans and players have been singing that same tune all year. (They just do it real quiet like now that the Warriors are running through the league.

Here in LA I had to give up on sports talk there was so much of that garbage.
I always like to remind Clippers fans how much of a perennial choker Chris Paul is. I hope he makes it to the conference finals at least one time in his career.

TroyF

01-26-2016, 09:17 PM

Sounds like the staffer that Griffin hit was more of a case of hitting a guy who has a job with the Clippers because your buddy is Blake Griffin, than 'Griffin strikes lowly staffer because he's a pompous jerk'. Still, incredibly stupid. Seems like either athletes shatter their hands punching people off-court at a much higher rate than non-athletes. Or it just happens more often than we know.

I listened to some of the talk radio this afternoon for the hell of it. There were plenty of pissed off Clippers fans, but the psychotic ones all went to the same themes:

1) It takes a lot for Griffin to get angry on the court, so this guy must have deserved what he got.

2) He hit a friend, not a co worker, it's just boys being boys, the media needs to let this go

3) He'll be healthy by the playoffs and if the Clippers can hold onto the 4 slot, they'll meet the Warriors in round 2 and win anyway.

I laughed pretty hard.

Vince, Pt. II

01-26-2016, 10:58 PM

Seems like either athletes shatter their hands punching people off-court at a much higher rate than non-athletes. Or it just happens more often than we know.

I've heard from numerous sources over the course of my life that unless you know how to throw a punch, it's almost impossible to actually punch someone and NOT break your hand.

nol

01-26-2016, 11:12 PM

Or people who are not public figures have an easier time saying they broke their hand from falling or something, and nobody cares enough to wonder whether it was actually from drunkenly punching someone.

Brian Swartz

01-27-2016, 02:27 AM

Would maybe be the first time in 15 years that anything had a lasting negative effect on the Spurs ...

Will be interesting to see how it affects them though. I get your point, but when faced with a real alpha team such as the peak Kobe/Shaq Lakers or the Harden version of the Thunder, San Antonio has broken mentally before. A regular-season game won't do it, but Golden State could have won by 50 if they felt like it. Yes the Spurs played like crap, and they were pretty clearly getting complacent going in(see: getting killed on the boards by the Lakers, for example), but when you play bad the opponent usually has a lot to do with it. Popovich may well have wanted them to get beat for that matter(last year when they hit like 18 wins in a row or something he was publicly talking about them needing a good beating on the court to wake them up and complacency) but I doubt this is what he had in mind.

Spiral downward? Nah. But it is a test I think of how badly they really want to be great and win another title, how much contentment the veterans have with what they've already done, and so on. I think they can hang with the best the Warriors can do, but only if they get back to the kind of execution they showed in the Finals two years ago against the Heat. Anything less and either Curry has a less-than-superlative series or they lose fairly badly. It'll be interesting to see how the other meetings go because one game is only one game, but beyond that it's pretty obvious that the man is unguardable. The Spurs can be unguardable as a team as well, but they need Green(signs he's finding his shot, but it's not back yet), Mills, Aldridge, Duncan, everyone healthy and in rhythm too. They can make life difficult on the rest of the Warriors, but if Curry's shooting well he's going to score 40-50 and that's just the way it is.

That's how I see it from here, at any rate. All in all I think this loss is more likely to do to the Spurs what the Detroit loss did to Golden State. One loss tends to refocus them. In a series, if they took a couple of these back-to-back? Different story.

jbergey22

01-27-2016, 07:19 AM

The Warriors would be an extremely frustrating team to play. A lot of times it wouldnt even matter how well you play as you are basically at the mercy of how well they are shooting the three(which usually is on point). As a team they shoot over 42 percent from 3 point range. One hot shooting quarter and they either wipe you out and destroy your fighting spirit or can make up a 15 point deficit like it is not an issue at all.

They played the Clippers earlier this year in a game the Clippers shot 70 plus percent in the first quarter and jumped out to a 15 point lead. The Warriors cut that lead in very little time. The Warriors ended up streaking late and won a game by 7-8 points in which the Clippers played as good of offense as they could possibly play.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201511190LAC.html

wustin

01-27-2016, 10:48 AM

The Warriors would be an extremely frustrating team to play. A lot of times it wouldnt even matter how well you play as you are basically at the mercy of how well they are shooting the three(which usually is on point). As a team they shoot over 42 percent from 3 point range. One hot shooting quarter and they either wipe you out and destroy your fighting spirit or can make up a 15 point deficit like it is not an issue at all.

They played the Clippers earlier this year in a game the Clippers shot 70 plus percent in the first quarter and jumped out to a 15 point lead. The Warriors cut that lead in very little time. The Warriors ended up streaking late and won a game by 7-8 points in which the Clippers played as good of offense as they could possibly play.

Golden State Warriors at Los Angeles Clippers Box Score, November 19, 2015 | Basketball-Reference.com (http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201511190LAC.html)

There was a stretch in the fourth quarter where Harrison Barnes scored 8 straight points to lead that comeback. I hope Barnes comes to form soon because he's been hurting his market value for this offseason.

Brian Swartz

01-27-2016, 09:01 PM

At the moment, Spurs up 30 against Houston. It would appear they have avoided a hangover from the Warriors curbstomping, at least for now.

nol

01-28-2016, 11:55 PM

Don't look now, but the Pelicans will be something like 2.5 games out of the last playoff spot at the end of tonight, and Anthony Davis will have the rest of the season to gun for an All-NBA spot and the major salary bonus that comes with it.

For as good as Porzingis has looked, I may end up being right for saying that drafting Myles Turner plus whatever picks were being thrown out for trading down could have been an even better haul for the Knicks. His numbers on a per-minute basis are right there with Porzingis', and he's been able to sustain it with increased playing time the past few games.

Towns put up roughly what I was expecting from him for the season - somewhere around 14 and 10 with somewhat limited usage, which would be really impressive when you think about it for a young rookie.

16 and 10 on 53% shooting, which I mention now because he's powering through the rookie wall to the tune of 23.6 and 12 rebounds while shooting 68.5% from the field the last 5 games and could end up making those estimates look even more conservative by season's end.

nol

02-01-2016, 02:05 AM

The Suns fired (or put out of his misery) Jeff Hornacek.

whomario

02-04-2016, 06:51 AM

murrayyyyy

02-04-2016, 11:14 AM

With his 11 tonight (seriously, can he just get it over with and break that record? ;) ), he is at 232 for the season, already 10th most 3s all time. He will crush his own record and could exceed it by 100 or more. Just an insane shooter. And Warriors still in track for 73+

More perspective...

When the 1st quarter started Steph's season was 21st all time in 3s made. When it ended he was in 14th. He passed 7 people in 12 minutes.

Or if you need a nice graph just to show how nuts it is... (pre-last night I think)

https://public.tableau.com/profile/thomas.valtin.erwin#!/vizhome/StephCurryThrees/Dashboard1

whomario

02-04-2016, 11:54 AM

And Washington did a pretty decent job hounding him (forced 7 Tos)...

He also leads all active players in career 3p%, which is insane with the shots he´s taking. He also is 50-99 on the season on "4 pointers" (27+ feet), where the league average is around 25%.

Nearly every game of his produces a 5 minute highlight reel that other players need half a season for.

albionmoonlight

02-04-2016, 12:29 PM

If this season were a video game, I'd be getting bored as the Warriors and wishing that I had cranked up the difficulty level a notch.

wustin

02-04-2016, 02:33 PM

No one's talking about Westbrook's monster game....triple double with 19 rebounds.

Brian Swartz

02-08-2016, 03:08 PM

One of these days the NBA is just going to go out and fire all 30 coaches on the same day. It's going to happen.

miami_fan

02-08-2016, 07:09 PM

One of these days the NBA is just going to go out and fire all 30 coaches on the same day. It's going to happen.

If the Fisher firing is about basketball, it reminds me of a soccer club trying to save themselves from relegation.

murrayyyyy

02-09-2016, 02:56 PM

One of these days the NBA is just going to go out and fire all 30 coaches on the same day. It's going to happen.

Well Karl is rumored to be coming in the next few days...

murrayyyyy

02-09-2016, 03:01 PM

Why are the Hawks breaking up? They are 1.5 games out from avoiding LeBron until the ECF. Is that not good enough? Teague has already scrubbed Hawks logos off all his social media supposedly.

Groundhog

02-09-2016, 04:22 PM

Kings had 4 guys show up for them morning shootaround before the Cavs game. I'd say Karl has 1.5 feet out the door.

nol

02-09-2016, 04:42 PM

Why are the Hawks breaking up? They are 1.5 games out from avoiding LeBron until the ECF. Is that not good enough? Teague has already scrubbed Hawks logos off all his social media supposedly.

I don't think the NBA went to playoff byes, and even then they're probably the same number of games in the opposite direction from the 8th seed. They're certainly not so good as to be immune from discussing it.

Groundhog

02-09-2016, 04:57 PM

It's pretty strange how different the Hawks look this year. Definitely not the 'Spurs-lite' from last year.

RainMaker

02-10-2016, 07:10 PM

Monty Williams wife was killed in a car accident. Had 5 kids, most young. Tragic story.

murrayyyyy

02-10-2016, 08:11 PM

Monty Williams wife was killed in a car accident. Had 5 kids, most young. Tragic story.

And his former team comes to town tomorrow. I know he did a lot to help Ryan Anderson get through his ordeal (last year?). Couldn't imagine what he is going through right now.

JonInMiddleGA

02-10-2016, 09:06 PM

Why are the Hawks breaking up? They are 1.5 games out from avoiding LeBron until the ECF. Is that not good enough? Teague has already scrubbed Hawks logos off all his social media supposedly.

(New) ownership seems to feel like its a team going nowhere, marginal to contend for anything at all with or without Horford. Not worth the max contract he'll be demanding next year, might as well deal him. I can't really argue against that position.

As for Teague, it's believed to be a personality issue as much as anything. He's not as fiery/demonstrative as Schroeder, they don't think there's a real dropoff in output with a switch & that the personality change at the forefront might be helpful.

cuervo72

02-10-2016, 09:51 PM

So, weren't ATL and MIL being held up as rebuild successes that PHI should aspire to?