Mixed Martial Arts Thread (UFC and others)

[cthomer5000]

I just caught the CBS stuff today on DVR.

I'm a very casual MMA viewer, im thinking i see maybe 2 events a year, and i was fairly entertained (while fast-forwarding through a lot of hype).

I'm glad the fights were mostly stand-up, because i'll say without reservation that grappling/submission is just a lot less entertaining to me.

I thought breaking up the one grapple in the Slice fight was more controversial than the stoppage. He was raining blows in at that point and just destroying that hideous ear. the stoppage was fine by me, casual viewer.

[Eaglesfan27]

This has been a great fight and now I'm more likely to go out of my way to watch MMA matches in the future. Before this weekend, I think I've only watched matches 2 or 3 times.

[Oilers9911]

Now that is what a fight card should look like.

[BYU 14]

Excellent co-main event tonight, totally put that sham of a card last night to shame.

Faber does something new that impresses me every time out and tonight his stand-up was exceptional. Too much speed for Pulver, who is one tough SOB, hats off to him for the effort.

I don't know that there is much more for Faber to do at 145. UFC doesn't have a 145 pound division, so the best Featherweights are in WEC already. I hope we can see Faber add 10 pounds and move to UFC to take on Penn, that would be another great fight.

[Flasch186]

great fights tonight...time for bed.

[RainMaker]

The Kimbo fight was rigged beyond belief. My favorite part is after the fight where the promoter is telling everyone that Thompson is being rushed to the hospital. Then Thompson walks in.

http://mmarated.com/users/video/163/529.html

[BYU 14]

The Kimbo fight was rigged beyond belief. My favorite part is after the fight where the promoter is telling everyone that Thompson is being rushed to the hospital. Then Thompson walks in.

http://mmarated.com/users/video/163/529.html


Hadn't seen that before, classic. Makes WWE look like a shoot.

[Rich1033]

Tonights card was very good. Actually had a few people over to watch it that werent big MMA fans and they all enjoyed it.

Lawler was losing that fight, he had the first round but the second and what was left of the third could of easily been judged in Smith's favor.

Well I guess I just disagree on that.

[Vince]

I was at Arco Arena tonight, for my first-ever live MMA experience. Turns out some very good friends of mine from High School are pretty close with Urijah Faber - my friend Brian Cobb actually had Urijah as his corner man in a fight a few weeks ago.

I went this weekend more as an excuse to hang out with some friends I don't see very often, but I left thoroughly impressed and entertained. Arco was rocking pretty loud -- I think there were at least 6 of the 11 fights on the evening featuring a fighter from Sacramento. Also got to watch a stupid ass fan get tazered by the cops for trying to fight someone else in the crowd.

[Flasch186]

that post fight interview is very very embarrassing for the promoter. He couldve gotten bad info from someone, I assume the whispering guy, who maybe got bad info from someone but certainly looked bad.

[Calis]

I don't know that there is much more for Faber to do at 145. UFC doesn't have a 145 pound division, so the best Featherweights are in WEC already. I hope we can see Faber add 10 pounds and move to UFC to take on Penn, that would be another great fight.

I'm assuming you mean the best featherweights in North America, because there are some extremely talented featherweights in Japan. Unfortunately we'll never see Faber fight any of them. The obvious greatest match-up woul be Faber vs. Kid Yamamoto which would be an awesome one to see. I don't think Kid has any intention of fighting anyone worth a damn though, so it won't happen. There's a couple of Shooto guys that are tops as well, like Lion Takeshi and Tamura. Faber definitely moved himself to top of the heap with this fight though. Not anything left for him in WEC, and since Zuffa seems to hellbent against bringing in any other organization's fighters I don't think there's much for him to do. I think a move to lightweight would go poorly for him, at least against the likes of Penn or even Sherk. He seems like he doesn't cut much for 45 so I think 55 would be too much for him. I imagine being the face of the WEC is pretty appealing as well and I doubt Zuffa wants him moved.

The main events were fantastic though and really makes me wish that it wasn't Elite XC that got the national shot. The Faber/Pulver fight was a little too one-sided to be a classic, but still was very exciting. I didn't think Pulver could keep up with him, but I didn't think he'd get out-struck like that, and I was impressed with how he kept in it after taking a lot of punishment.

Couple of good fights coming up this weekend also. Busy few weeks for MMA.

[Deattribution]

More about the EliteXC stuff - Kaitlin Young's (who fought Gina Carano) response about her stoppage -

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 2:34 am Post subject:

My left cheek and area surrounding the eye are looking pretty ugly today, but there was no major damage. Though it may have looked like it on tv, I never actually had an open wound.

What you didn't see was that the doctor actually cleared me to fight the third round but the commission said "no". I wanted to continue, my corner wanted to continue. The cut likely would have opened in the third but it was under the eye. If I had to guess, I would say that they didn't want the visual of a woman with a bloody face on CBS.

They also chose not to do a post fight interview with me or to include me in the post fight news conference and after party. I think the reason for that was my beat up appearance after the fight because I was not seriously injured and was completely coherent.

I am very disappointed about that but cant help but wonder how people would have responded to that, as stupid as it is.

I think if people were shocked or upset by the look of it they may have been put at ease a bit by seeing that I was okay. I think some people probably assumed the worst because I basically disappeared from the camera after the fight.

I'm not trying to be one of those people "Well, I would have won if they had let it go into the third round so it wasn't my fault. Yada yada yada...." Gina was obviously getting the better of me at that point in the fight, but I wasn't ready to be done. It really bothers me that I didn't get a chance to thank my sponsors and all that jazz.


So, while she was being beat - she wasn't hurt as bad as some suspected and was cleared to go another round.

[JonInMiddleGA]

http://www.medialifemagazine.com/artman2/publish/News_shorts_31/index.asp

CBS finds Saturday night's alright for MMA fighting
So maybe mixed martial arts programming does have a place on broadcast TV. The premiere of CBS’s “Elite XC Saturday Night Fights” Saturday night averaged a 1.9 overnight rating among viewers 18-49 in its 9-11 p.m. timeslot, a 36 percent increase over what the network averaged in that period during the just-concluded regular TV season. The show did even better with younger viewers, particularly young men, as it averaged a 1.9 overnight rating among 18-34s, more than twice the network’s season average in the slot (0.9), as well as a 2.6 among males 18-34, up some 270 percent from the 0.7 the network averaged during the regular season. The two-hour show averaged 4.3 million total viewers, according to Nielsen fast nationals, about even to NBC’s coverage of the NHL’s Stanley Cup finals and ABC’s movie “The Rookie.” Fox’s “America’s Most Wanted,” which aired at 9 p.m., was the most-watched show of the night with a 5.4 million total viewers.

[SirFozzie]

Considering quite a few of affiliates didn't even show it, that's a REALLY good rating

[dervack]

I think the stoppage of the Kimbo fight in the third was a bit premature, but what I don't get is how the ref let Kimbo take 40 seconds of punches in the 2nd round without Kimbo fighting back or protecting himself and not end the fight there?

[Calis]

I think the stoppage of the Kimbo fight in the third was a bit premature, but what I don't get is how the ref let Kimbo take 40 seconds of punches in the 2nd round without Kimbo fighting back or protecting himself and not end the fight there?

I think the issue there was the fact it was one of the weakest ground & pounds I've ever seen. It probably could've still been stopped, but for being in the horrible position he was, Kimbo took very little damage. Thompson should've finished it decisively there.

The more questionable move, was the ref standing it up when Thompson was I believe in side mount. It was a quick stand-up and I'm a believer that you should NEVER stand it up when someone is in a dominate position like that unless they're doing absolutely nothing for an extended period.

Whole thing was odd.

I bet Dana White is enjoying this though, he's started looking pretty good now that everyone has seen enough of Gary Shaw. I still have a pretty deep dislike of Dana White, but one thing I'll say is that he really does have a passion for the sport and wants it to succeed. Shaw spent most of his time bashing MMA a few years back, saw a paycheck and jumped on the bandwagon. He'll run as soon as soon as it starts going downhill for him.

[Maple Leafs]

Considering quite a few of affiliates didn't even show it, that's a REALLY good rating
They beat the Stanley Cup finals on NBC.

Good thing Gary Bettman got all that fighting that Americans hate so much out of the NHL!

[dervack]

I think the issue there was the fact it was one of the weakest ground & pounds I've ever seen. It probably could've still been stopped, but for being in the horrible position he was, Kimbo took very little damage. Thompson should've finished it decisively there.

The more questionable move, was the ref standing it up when Thompson was I believe in side mount. It was a quick stand-up and I'm a believer that you should NEVER stand it up when someone is in a dominate position like that unless they're doing absolutely nothing for an extended period.

Whole thing was odd.

I bet Dana White is enjoying this though, he's started looking pretty good now that everyone has seen enough of Gary Shaw. I still have a pretty deep dislike of Dana White, but one thing I'll say is that he really does have a passion for the sport and wants it to succeed. Shaw spent most of his time bashing MMA a few years back, saw a paycheck and jumped on the bandwagon. He'll run as soon as soon as it starts going downhill for him.
Yeah, I mean it wasn't devastating by any means, but most fights, when a fighter is getting hit for 40 straight seconds without answering a punch, or anything like that, I would say 8 times out of 10, it's going to be stopped.

[AlexB]

UFC 85 Bedlam

Controversial finishes to both of the first two UFC 85 fights. Vera's stoppage was particularly poor, and while Marquadt can feel aggrieved about the point off for the back of head elbow, he only got on top properly after he illegally kneed Leitas anyway

[dervack]

UFC 85 Bedlam

Controversial finishes to both of the first two UFC 85 fights. Vera's stoppage was particularly poor, and while Marquadt can feel aggrieved about the point off for the back of head elbow, he only got on top properly after he illegally kneed Leitas anyway
Sorry to bump this thread, but I was nowhere near here the past week. Of course, the ref in the Vera fight is the same ref of the Kimbo fight. Nice job Dan.

[Calis]

Really great main event tonight. I thought it was one of the more epic championship matches we've seen in a while, with some great back and forth action, and I genuinely had no idea who would get the decision. I actually had it as a draw, but I knew that wouldn't happen. I thought Rampage took the 1st, 3rd, and 4th..lost the 2nd 10-8 and lost the 5th. I was surprised it was unaminous and that one judge had Forrest winning by 3,

Extremely disappointed that Rampage lost, but I'm happy it was Forrest he lost to. I would rather see Chuck vs. Forrest than Rampage vs. Chuck III, because I don't think the first two fights left many questions. I do however still want to see Rampage/Wandy III, so line those two up for the next title shot after Rashad/Chuck! (That's assuming they're going to bury Machida because they don't want him as a champ.)

[Flasch186]

good stuff tonight...time for bed :)

[BYU 14]

Real nice main event, I was surprised at the 3 point margin on the one card. I had Forrest by two points winning the 2nd, 4th and 5th. (2nd was a 10-8 round) and Rampage winning the 1st and 3rd.

It's hard not to root for both Forrest and Rampage, both tough SOB's and good guys.

[SirFozzie]

Forrest is playing in the WSOP Main Event today after winning the UFC LHW Title last night:

With the board Q-10-7-5-Q, UFC fighter Forest Griffin calls all in and flips over pocket sevens for a full house. His opponent mucks and Griffin doubles up to about 30,000 chips. Griffin seemed to hesitate calling on the river, and Johnny Chan said that with full houses you pretty much always have to go with it.

"It's much easier on a computer," Griffin replied. "I don't know what's going on here."

He later added: "So do I have to lose all this before I can go?" Considering Griffin defeated Quinton "Rampage" Jackson last night, one can only imagine what Jackson looks like right now. Griffin has bruises on his forehead and ear, and his right eye is nearly swollen shut.

[Arctic Blast]

Lik everyone else, I was surprised at the judge's scorecard with Forrest winning by 3. GREAT fight, though, when was the last time we had a championship fight that was that good? (I do think GSP-Jon Fitch in September has potential, though).

[TLK]

Great night for MMA tonight:


AFFLICTION: JULY 19, 2008
venue: The Honda Center in Anaheim, California

Bouts Scheduled to Air on Pay-Per-View:
-Fedor Emelianenko (#1 Heavyweight in the World)* vs. Tim Sylvia (#5 Heavyweight in the World)*
-Andre Arlovski (#6 Heavyweight in the World)* vs. Ben Rothwell
-Josh Barnett (#4 Heavyweight in the World)* vs. Pedro Rizzo
-Renato "Babalu" Sobral vs. Mike Whitehead
-Matt Lindland vs. Fabio Negao
-Antonio Rogerio Nogueira (#8 Light Heavyweight in the World)* vs. Edwin Dewees
-Mike Pyle vs. J.J. Ambrose
-Justin Levens vs. Ray Lazama (Swing Bout)

Bouts Scheduled to Air on Fox Sports Net:
-Trenell "Savant" Young vs. Mark Hominick
-Paul Buentello vs. Gary Goodridge
-Vitor Belfort vs. Terry Martin

Main card airs live on Saturday, July 19 from 8:00 PM to 9:00 PM on Fox Sports Net; and from 9:00 PM to 1:00 AM (ET) on pay-per-view

* Based on MMAWeekly World MMA Rankings

UFC: JULY 19, 2008 IN LAS VEGAS
venue: The Palms in Las Vegas, Nevada

Main Card Bouts:
-Anderson Silva (#1 Middleweight in the World)* vs. James Irvin (at Light Heavyweight)
-Brandon Vera vs. Reese Andy
-Frankie Edgar vs. Hermes Franca
-Jake O'Brien vs. Cain Velasquez
-Anthony Johnson vs. Kevin Burns
-Jesse Taylor vs. C.B. Dollaway
I plan on catching the Affliction show on PPV and then watching the UFC replay. It should be about eight hours worth of fights.

[Calis]

I was very disappointed to hear that the Aleks Emelianenko vs. Paul Buentello fight got cancelled at the last minute(yesterday. I was really looking forward to seeing Aleks fight again, but I guess they had some issues with getting him licensed.

I plan on watching Affliction still and I'll record the UFC to watch later.

[BYU 14]

I was very disappointed to hear that the Aleks Emelianenko vs. Paul Buentello fight got cancelled at the last minute(yesterday. I was really looking forward to seeing Aleks fight again, but I guess they had some issues with getting him licensed.

I plan on watching Affliction still and I'll record the UFC to watch later.

Ditto, the Affliction card is fantastic and looking at the names really brings to light what a dick Dana White has turned out to be. He run all these guys off either by squeezing the purse strings too tight or treating them like crap.....

That me against the world attitude he has was great when he was fighting to build the sport, but now he just comes off as a cocky jerk who would rather burn the village than share the wealth.

[Flasch186]

Im going to buy affliction tonight i think if I can get some peeps over to share.

EDIT; WOAH, didnt know it was $40 and $50, respectively for SD or HD. I may just have to watch the free UFC instead. Wow too expensive for Affliction IMO. Is anyone buying it?

[DaddyTorgo]

i'd love to order affliction, but at that price I don't know if I can justify it

especially given that at least one of the "eagerly anticipated" fights will likely turn out to be "meh"

[Calis]

I'll be buying it, well going in on it with a couple other people.

I'm one of the suckers that buys just about an MMA event I can get my hands, and tries to find ways to watch the ones I can't(Japanese and Korean shows).

I do think it will be a cluster though. They've shot very high for their first show, and it seems like they're a little lost as to what to do. With Fedor, Little Nog, and Barnett among others fighting I can't pass it up. At least one of the fights is bound to be great.

I still think the Edgar vs. Franca fight on the UFC card will end up being the fight of the night though.

[BYU 14]

Im going to buy affliction tonight i think if I can get some peeps over to share.

EDIT; WOAH, didnt know it was $40 and $50, respectively for SD or HD. I may just have to watch the free UFC instead. Wow too expensive for Affliction IMO. Is anyone buying it?


My buddy always buys them and everyone just brings beer and food....a fair trade :)

[MrDNA]

My friend is a nut and always buys the PPV. He's just glad people show up so he doesn't have to watch it alone. I used to just watch it because he's my bud, but now I actually enjoy it. Shhh, don't tell him or he'll try to get me to pay ;)

[Arctic Blast]

My question with the Affliction promotion is...is this just going to be a one off, or are they regularly going to be creating events>? If the latter, who the Hell is going to fight in their next event? They're kind of shooting everyone out there tonight.

[Calis]

My question with the Affliction promotion is...is this just going to be a one off, or are they regularly going to be creating events>? If the latter, who the Hell is going to fight in their next event? They're kind of shooting everyone out there tonight.

Supposedly they already have another one in the works according to some sources, but nothing concrete. The source said it was an even better card than this one, which I'm sure is a lie but I never expected the names in this one.

They can always bring more guys in, I know Trump is pretty heavily involved with it, so they can toss some money around to bring in some guys from other orgs and free agent.

I tend to think it's going to be a financial disaster, and it won't stick around long, but I'll watch it while it's here.

[DaddyTorgo]

can you record something on dvr that you order on ppv?

[SirFozzie]

wow. That is one of the most Bullshit ref decisions I've ever seen in UFC.

[DaddyTorgo]

seriously. Can the ref's not look up at the big screen or whatever to see the eye-poke?

fwiw - idk if I buy that excuse -- and IMO if he can't avoid doing that he doesn't belong in MMA

[Flasch186]

horrible, just horrible.

[SirFozzie]

wow. Why didn't they stop it after that first punch. The guy got EIGHT shots in before being pulled off

[Flasch186]

well that was fast.

[DaddyTorgo]

yikes

[DaddyTorgo]

as naseauted as I was by their "the best fighter pound for pound in the world" hyperbole (clearly designed to put down Fedor), that was smooth

[vex]

Yeah, that was impressive.

[Calis]

Spoilers from both cards below, so if you haven't seen one or the other skip it.






Pretty impressive performances from both main event stars tonight. I love watching Fedor. I love that he made a definitive statement in this fight, because there is a lot of talk about him being overrated and rightly so at this point because of his recent competition. Sylvia is of course a guy on the decline and on a losing streak, but he still completely dismantled him in a fashion that Couture wasn't able to, and Nog as well, but Fedor doesn't have to prove anything against Nog. The guy is just a machine, and I was hoping he'd be able to rough Tim up standing like that to just make it look a little more impressive. I get a kick out of on the replay how upon winning he has absolutely no change in expression. Really comes across as one of the classiest individuals in sports.I'm beginning to lean more towards him having very little trouble with Couture if they do fight, especially if he gets another fight in before then against a guy like Barnett or Arlovski.

The Affliction card overall wasn't bad. It wasn't great, and the Megadeath performance was terrible, but I enjoyed the main event, and Arlovski looked very impressive. I'm a Josh Barnett fan also, and I'd love to see them set a match between Fedor and him next..he'd lose, but I think it's the best available match-up out there, unless they try to set up something like signing Tito and moving him to heavyweight, or bringing in a guy from Dream or something if that's possible.

That ring seemed HUGE, and the refs really didn't seem to have a clue about moving the fights to the center and how to deal with some of those situations.

Decent but not great. I would buy another card by them though, depending on the match-ups.

We recorded the UFC and went through it at a much quicker clip. It was mediocre as well. Silva is always fun to watch, Vera managed to look good and terrible at the same time in big way. I don't think it's just from cutting the weight, guy has not looked right for a while now. You could tell he'd demolish the guy if he ever got going, but didn't really have that drive.

Overall I was a little disappointed with the night for as much potential as it had.

We still have the finals for the Dream Lightweight tournament that will take place I think on Monday in Japan, and that one has some potentially great fights. Very excited to see Mark Hunt fight again, and I always love seeing Aoki fight. The Alvarez/Kawajiri fight should be a very exciting fight as well.

[Flasch186]

WEC fight tonight:

Condit v. Mitsumira

Unbelievable fight but the ref certainly called it earlier than I thought he shouldve in the fourth rd. but it was a great fight nonetheless.

[Deattribution]

WEC fight tonight:

Condit v. Mitsumira

Unbelievable fight but the ref certainly called it earlier than I thought he shouldve in the fourth rd. but it was a great fight nonetheless.

Miura was completely exhausted, I'd of loved to see another round but the guy could barely even stand earlier in the round so I don't think it was really a bad stoppage. He gave everything he had though.

[Scoobz0202]

Very new to MMA. Anybody know somewhere I can get the who's who and the what's what?

I have tried to figure it out lately but it seems like there are just so many different "leagues."

Is there a good place to go to find out when the fights are and what channel? Most stuff Pay-Per-View?

[Flasch186]

Miura was completely exhausted, I'd of loved to see another round but the guy could barely even stand earlier in the round so I don't think it was really a bad stoppage. He gave everything he had though.

however, Condit's punches at that point were also exhausted and they were doing barely any damage. If anything the ref couldve stood them up but to stop it when Condit was in essence slapping him with those final punches was a disservice. If that we're the 5th I'd say it shouldve gone to the scorecards. The ref was awfully fast to stand them up for not "advancing position" when miura was on top but with Condit he gave him more time.....Keep in mind I was rooting for Condit but I thought the ref did a poor job.

[Sublime 2]

GSP was obviously very impressive, but I think Lesnar just stole the show with his DOMINATING performance. Herring just couldn't do anything against him. His antics at the very end and afterward were very WWE-ish, but it is nice to see some potential in the heavyweight division.

[Deattribution]

Very new to MMA. Anybody know somewhere I can get the who's who and the what's what?

I have tried to figure it out lately but it seems like there are just so many different "leagues."

Is there a good place to go to find out when the fights are and what channel? Most stuff Pay-Per-View?

Sherdog can be a good site for that, and while their forums can also be informative, it's probably the biggest cesspool of idiots on the internet. There are a bunch of other 'news and rumor' kind of sites like mmanews, mmaweekly, mmatorch (the list could go on for a while). Mostly though from what I've found, alot of sites (like sherdog) will give you reminders a few days before the show but if you want to know weeks in advance, generally you need to goto the official sites or the forums.

As for the actual 'leagues' I'd say the pecking order goes something like -

UFC (undoubtedly the deepest talent pool, and if you're paying to watch where you're going to have the best chance to get your monies worth)

WEC (Some of the best MMA you can watch, and it's free on the VS network, another big show sept 10, alot of replays of shows on VS also. Several elite talents in weight divisions UFC does not have)

Affliction (not the best production, or marketing/coverage but they seem intent on putting on some stacked cards even if it puts them out of business. PPV only thus far but still in it's infancy.)

Elite XC (free shows on showtime and CBS, another CBS show coming up in oct, one in august and 1 in sept for showtime I believe. Decent talent level, but aside from a handful of fighters, a definate step down from the promotions above.)

Strikeforce (also shown on showtime I believe, they co promote with Elite XC)

Then you have alot of good foreign MMA with DREAM and Sengoku and some others but they're harder to watch in the US, and an even steeper learning curve to familiarize yourself with them. Pretty much everything else falls into minor league at best.


however, Condit's punches at that point were also exhausted and they were doing barely any damage. If anything the ref couldve stood them up but to stop it when Condit was in essence slapping him with those final punches was a disservice. If that we're the 5th I'd say it shouldve gone to the scorecards. The ref was awfully fast to stand them up for not "advancing position" when miura was on top but with Condit he gave him more time.....Keep in mind I was rooting for Condit but I thought the ref did a poor job.

I agree the ref did some questionable stand ups to Miura, and Condit wasn't really doing any damage. I just think at that point, Miura was too exhausted to defend himself so if they'd of stood them up if Miura could of even stand, he'd be at real risk of injury or getting KTFO for no reason. I also think its a match where he put everything he had into it and he deserves an eventual rematch just because it was so close.

[Flasch186]

GSP was obviously very impressive, but I think Lesnar just stole the show with his DOMINATING performance. Herring just couldn't do anything against him. His antics at the very end and afterward were very WWE-ish, but it is nice to see some potential in the heavyweight division.

So here's my take on Lesnar. He was dominant however he absolutely wasted many an opportunity to apply a submission or attempt to get some hooks in. He simply played a smothering game which he knew would win the decision but, if that's a sign of a weakness, than he knows what to focus on in camp, which is sumbissions.

His antics at the end were somewhat disgraceful and makes me wonder if UFC isn't grooming him as the heavyweight monster in sort of a heel role. If they can accomplish that, ie. bring a tiny tiny bit of WWE in while WWE fails to bring a tiny bit of UFC into their game, it could be huge for ratings, merchandising, and growth of the company. It certainly is a gamble in MMA as tides can turn and results can throw wrenches but if done right it could be an era of good v. evil in the UFC heavyweight division which would be awfully cool.

Me and a friend are going to the WEC event on Sept. 10 and am very excited to see the matches and go to a casino for the first time in a long time.

[Calis]

Yeah I agree that Lesnar dominated but I still ended up disappointed. It was a good win against a decent gatekeeper in the heavyweight division. It at least gives him some cred, and I'll be anxious to see who they match him up against next. His antics pretty much assured I'll be rooting against him.

Guy has unbelievable potential though, but it'll be interesting to see how much he works on rounding out his game and what he makes of it. Last night I kept thinking he was some sort of new improved version of Dan Severn, and that's not something that excited me.

Not sure who is a good next match for him. Could they do Kongo? He's a guy who has some wins now, and I think ends up being a pretty good match-up for Lesnar. He's complete crap on the ground, and I think Lesnar could take him down before getting much damage done. I'm not sure who else is a good match for him. I still think you want to keep him away from a great Jiu-Jitsu guy like Werdum, and there's not many options out there unless they want to feed him a can.

I still think GSP's performance was more impressive though. Lesnar beat a mid-level heavyweight, and GSP dismantled one of the tops in the weight class. Props to Fitch though, man that guy took a beating and kept coming. I think he made a lot of new fans from that fight.

GSP/Penn I'll be very anxious to see. Penn had the first match in hand but as usual his cardio failed him. If he actually trains and doesn't bloat up to get to 170 it could be a very interesting fight.

I was pretty hyped for this card, the three main fights I thought all had potential to be very interesting, and all three ended up being pretty much one-sided affairs. Still a pretty fun card overall.

[dervack]

Yeah, I think it was hinted at this weekend that kongo would be next for Lesnar. And while I have no doubt that his lack of submission skills prevented him from finishing the fight against Herring, part of me thinks that Lesnar just wanted to absolutely club Herring into submission too.

[Scoobz0202]

Sherdog can be a good site for that, and while their forums can also be informative, it's probably the biggest cesspool of idiots on the internet. There are a bunch of other 'news and rumor' kind of sites like mmanews, mmaweekly, mmatorch (the list could go on for a while). Mostly though from what I've found, alot of sites (like sherdog) will give you reminders a few days before the show but if you want to know weeks in advance, generally you need to goto the official sites or the forums.

As for the actual 'leagues' I'd say the pecking order goes something like -

UFC (undoubtedly the deepest talent pool, and if you're paying to watch where you're going to have the best chance to get your monies worth)

WEC (Some of the best MMA you can watch, and it's free on the VS network, another big show sept 10, alot of replays of shows on VS also. Several elite talents in weight divisions UFC does not have)

Affliction (not the best production, or marketing/coverage but they seem intent on putting on some stacked cards even if it puts them out of business. PPV only thus far but still in it's infancy.)

Elite XC (free shows on showtime and CBS, another CBS show coming up in oct, one in august and 1 in sept for showtime I believe. Decent talent level, but aside from a handful of fighters, a definate step down from the promotions above.)

Strikeforce (also shown on showtime I believe, they co promote with Elite XC)

Then you have alot of good foreign MMA with DREAM and Sengoku and some others but they're harder to watch in the US, and an even steeper learning curve to familiarize yourself with them. Pretty much everything else falls into minor league at best.





Thanks for the help. Appreciated.

[TLK]

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="608"><tbody><tr><td class="Txt18Yell" height="30"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="608"><tbody><tr><td class="Txt18Yell" height="30">Shamrock Gets Next Shot at ‘Slice’
</td></tr> <tr> <td class="Txt11Gray"> <script language="javascript" type="text/javascript"> var agt=navigator.userAgent.toLowerCase(); var appVer = navigator.appVersion.toLowerCase(); var is_safari = ((agt.indexOf('safari')!=-1)&&(agt.indexOf('mac')!=-1))?true:false; if (is_safari) { var share_panel = document.getElementById('share_panel_holder'); share_panel.style.right = "-11px"; } function sendto(item) { var newpage; ShowContent('vir_email'); document.getElementById('vir_email').innerHTML="<iframe src=""\"\/sendto.php"+item+"\"frameborder=\"0\" scrolling=\"no\" width=\"215\" height=\"60\"><\/iframe>"; } function printer_friendly(theURL,winName,features) { window.open(theURL,winName,features); } </script> Options: http://www.cdn.sherdog.com/_images/icons/email_icon.gif Email Article (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:sendto%28%27?article=14185%27%29;) | http://www.cdn.sherdog.com/_images/icons/printer_icon.gif Printer Friendly (http://javascript%3Cb%3E%3C/b%3E:printer_friendly%28%27/news_print.php%27,%27news%27,%27scrollbars=yes,width=635,height=500%27%29) </td> </tr> <tr> <td class="TxtBox"> <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="Txt13Gray"> http://sherdog.com/thumbnail_crop.php?image=http://www.cdn.sherdog.com/_images/headers/20080825104043_big_kimbo.JPG&width_size=570
Monday, August 25, 2008
by Loretta Hunt ([email protected])

14185
Ken Shamrock (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Ken-Shamrock-4) (Pictures (http://www.sherdog.com/pictures/gallery/fighter/4/)) will be the fourth man to face Kevin "Kimbo Slice" Ferguson (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Kevin-Ferguson-22388) (Pictures (http://www.sherdog.com/pictures/gallery/fighter/22388/)) when the two icons clash at EliteXC’s third installment of “Saturday Night Fights” Oct. 4 at the BankAtlantic Center in Sunrise, Fla. The headlining bout will anchor a live broadcast on CBS.

Sherdog.com confirmed the bout’s signing with multiple parties aware of the fight, while a press release is expected to circulate later today with the news.

The 44-year-old Shamrock (26-13-2) beat out fellow candidates Sean Gannon (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Sean-Gannon-11962) and Brett Rogers (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Brett-Rogers-16048) (Pictures (http://www.sherdog.com/pictures/gallery/fighter/16048/)), who called out Slice in May, for the coveted slot.

Shamrock, a 15-year veteran of the game who made his storied Octagon debut at UFC 1 in November 1993, has dropped his last five bouts in a row since 2005, including a lackluster showing against brawler Robert Berry (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Robert-Berry-7362) (Pictures (http://www.sherdog.com/pictures/gallery/fighter/7362/)) at Cage Rage 25 last March.

However, “The World’s Most Dangerous Man” exudes substantial selling power for a match now only five and a half weeks away. A strong personality in and out of the cage, Shamrock’s 15 appearances in the UFC earned him international recognition alongside his original nemesis Royce Gracie (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Royce-Gracie-19) (Pictures (http://www.sherdog.com/pictures/gallery/fighter/19/)).

Slice (3-0) earned a third-round victory against Brit James Thompson (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/James-Thompson-6721) (Pictures (http://www.sherdog.com/pictures/gallery/fighter/6721/)) in his last foray for EliteXC in May. The bout was much criticized for its questionable officiating, placing Ferguson’s skill set in doubt after Thompson held the advantage for sizable stretches of the 11-minute contest. Ferguson holds previous wins over David "Tank" Abbott (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/David-Abbott-110) (Pictures (http://www.sherdog.com/pictures/gallery/fighter/110/)) and Bo Cantrell (http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Bo-Cantrell-7428) (Pictures (http://www.sherdog.com/pictures/gallery/fighter/7428/)).
</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr><tr><td class="Txt11Gray">
</td></tr><tr><td class="TxtBox"><table style="width: 605px; height: 36px;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td class="Txt13Gray">


Two Words : Ratings Jackpot.
</td></tr></tbody></table></td></tr></tbody></table>

[DaddyTorgo]

that's a big risk to take with Kimbo. Shamrock is no spring chicken, but he's not horribly out of shape like Tank, and he is a former really badass dude. Hope he submits Kimbo or knocks his ass out.

[Rich1033]

Have you seen shamrock fight recently? Hes completely and totally washed up and has been for a few years. He has nothing left. This will just be another can for Kimbo, barely better than Tank IMO.

[DaddyTorgo]

Have you seen shamrock fight recently? Hes completely and totally washed up and has been for a few years. He has nothing left. This will just be another can for Kimbo, barely better than Tank IMO.

aaah. Nope - can't say I've seen Shammy fight at all recently. Well that's too bad then, and a shame that he's taking a payday to essentially "do a job" for Kimbo

[Deattribution]

Shamrock has a better chance of knocking himself out than he does of knocking Kimbo out. He got KTFO in his last match by a complete can.

[Calis]

Yeah Shamrock is a joke anymore. Still a good fight for Kimbo though, because if they had him fight Rogers or someone along those lines he more than likely would be murdered. Shamrock is washed up, but is still a name and will bring some attention. He's also usually good for a laugh and pre-fight hype. I still break out, "I'll beat you into living death" occasionally. Classic lines.

The guy got knocked out by Sakuraba. I love Sakuraba, but he's not someone who is prone to ko'ing people on the feet. I think this is a pretty safe bet for Kimbo. I can't remember the last time Shamrock looked good. Probably against Fujita before he threw in the towel. That was something like 7-8 years ago.

[Eaglesfan27]

As a person who has only marginally followed MMA and has only really picked it up in the last few months, I think this is a smart fight. If I hadn't read your analysis on here, I'd have no idea that Shamrock was a can now. I remember hearing the name from years ago, and from what I remember, he was one of the biggest stars of the sport.

[Flasch186]

which is why people who 'dont' normally watch may tune in...its a good marketing move for them if theyre truly selling to CBS and not so much the MMA aficionado.

[Rich1033]

If is a good fight to get some ratings, but this may backfire. I mean this will be a short fight and probably very ugly for Shamrock. I will be interested to see if people are like WTF, why did I bother watching? Ideally, IMO, you want your main event to actually be a half decent fight.

[PilotMan]

Well that's just it. They want new viewers to the sport. Here they plug Shamrock's history, and Kimbo either wins a blowout, and gets a MMA Legend on his win column, and something he can brag about, or he loses to an MMA Legend.

The rest of us know better. Shamrock is totally washed up, and a win here doesn't move Kimbo any closer toward a legit MMA fighter.

[SirFozzie]

File this under "Stupid MMA Tricks"

Seems Jon Koppenhaver was not a happy man after his fight with Yoshiyuki Yoshida. Not with the decision (he lost by submission after being choked out).. by the fact that the announcers didn't use his nickname.

Seems TNA Wrestling has trademarked the phrase "The War Machine", (for Rhino), and was threatening UFC if they used it.

So, Koppenhaver decided that this just would not do. He did the only thing that came to his mind... No, not get a new nickname. That would be too easy.

He's submitted documents to change his legal name from Jon Koppenhaver.. to War Machine. That's right. His legal name will be War Machine.

I can just see him at the airport.

"Would Mr. Machine please come to the booking desk? Mr. War Machine, to the booking desk please?" (Followed by TSA security, probably rather interested in such a name on a long flight)

What a moron.

[TLK]

UFC Media Conference Call Live Coverage (http://www.mmafrenzy.com/2008/09/02/ufc-media-conference-call-live-coverage/)




4:12pm ET — Dana White has announced that UFC heavyweight champion Randy Couture will take on Brock Lesnar at UFC 91 on November 15th in Las Vegas. Both Couture and Lesnar are on the call.

4:17pm ET — Nogueira and Mir will still fight at UFC 92 for the interim heavyweight title then the winners of both bouts will unify the titles in early-2009.

:eek:

[MikeVic]

Way too early for Brock I think. What has he done to deserve it?

[Deattribution]

Way too early for Brock I think. What has he done to deserve it?

He beat the Undertaker and the Big Show in a handicap tables, ladders and midgets on a pole match. If that's not impressive, nothing is.

[Neuqua]

Agreed, Brock shouldn't really stand much of a chance I would think. Unless Couture's been doing nothing but eating dorito's since his last "retirement."

[Rich1033]

Yeah, rumors of this have been going crazy for a week or two. Glad to see it finally confirmed. I believe the UFC is really going to try hard to get the Randy/Fedor match done as well.

Lesnar vs Couture should be very interesting. I look forward to seeing the game plan Randy comes up with.

[Rich1033]

Way too early for Brock I think. What has he done to deserve it?

With Mir and Nog tied up in the next Ultimate Fighter and scheduled to fight at UFC 92 there isnt really any other choice for a November opponent besides Lesnar, plus Im sure Randy wants the huge payday it will bring. Maybe Kongo, but that wont draw much interest. The UFC HW division isnt exactly loaded right now.

[Calis]

Randy is a very good matchup for Brock. No way in hell does he deserve it, but if they want Brock to be a champion that's a pretty good move. He stands a lot better chance against Randy than he does against Big Nog.

I hate to see it though. I want to see Randy's next fight be against Fedor. If he loses this one it takes a lot of luster off that fight, because the talk will immediately come back that Randy is done, and it'll mean less.

Randy has always had trouble against bigger guys though, and I see him having a LOT of trouble in this fight. I wonder how much Dana had to pay Randy to get this? Unless Randy knew he was going to lose in court, and is looking to cash in.

[Travis]

Should be interesting to watch, both are strong wrestlers so could be a technique vs strength match. Can't imagine Randy is going to want to stand with Brock but instead rely on wrestling to set up a submission. Does seem like small gain vs huge risk for Couture, but he seems quite intent on cutting ties with the UFC so taking any match offered to fulfill his obligations may be helping make the decision here?

[Rich1033]

Im pretty sure this is a multi-fight deal and not just a one and done for Couture. It says the winner of Couture/Lesner will fight the winner of Nog/Mir to unify the HW title. MMAJunkie also says in their article that its a multi-fight deal for further confirmation.

If you look at it from UFC's point of view, if they can manage to put together the Fedor/Randy match instead of Affliction, doesnt that reduce the chances that they survive as a fight organization? They are already bleeding money as is.

[Deattribution]

From a money standpoint, Couture vs Lesnar is worth more money than Couture vs Fedor until the UFC hype machine gets behind it. Most mainstream people don't know anything about Fedor.

Couture doesn't stand much chance against Fedor anyway, he's never proven to be an elite striker (Chuck Liddell pwns Couture) and Fedor's ground game makes him look like Alexander Karelin in comparison to Couture.

And speaking of not deserving title shots, what did Randy do to deserve his shot? Get KTFO twice by Liddell and beat Mike Van Arsdale? :rolleyes:

It's a weak division, and Lesnar has a real chance of winning the match, so he's as deserving as anyone else (except maybe Fabricio Werdum, but nobody would pay to see that).

[Travis]

Im pretty sure this is a multi-fight deal and not just a one and done for Couture. It says the winner of Couture/Lesner will fight the winner of Nog/Mir to unify the HW title. MMAJunkie also says in their article that its a multi-fight deal for further confirmation.

If you look at it from UFC's point of view, if they can manage to put together the Fedor/Randy match instead of Affliction, doesnt that reduce the chances that they survive as a fight organization? They are already bleeding money as is.

I think Couture has two fights left with the UFC under his current contract (3 tops I believe) and unless there's been some recent headway in the UFC luring Fedor into a contract, best chance for Randy to get to fight him is t come back, finish off his contract and then do the Fedor fight while he can still physically represent himself well.

If he's signed a new deal (Couture that is), I'd take that as a heavy indicator that UFC has made progress with Fedor which of course would be huge for not only solidifying their HW division, but dealing Affliction a huge blow.

[dervack]

It's a new 3 fight deal for Randy and it's been speculated that as part of his new agreement, Dana and the UFC might be willing to co-promote a PPV with M-1 Global to get Fedor into a match with Randy.

[DaddyTorgo]

idk why anyone wants to see Fedor destroy Randy. idk why Randy would even want to take that match. I think he has virtually no shot at beating Fedor, it's essentially going to just be a slaughter.

[Flasch186]

randy v brock is still great

[Calis]

Ouch.

That was pretty brutal.

[Deattribution]

Ouch.

That was pretty brutal.

As bad if not worse than the Cro Cop KO.

[SirFozzie]

See it while you can.

YouTube - liddell evans knockout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJZe-Hi_iSg)

I say.. WORSE then Cro Cop

[Travis]

Great knockout, but I still have to go with the Cro Cop one as being worse because first it looked like it broke his neck, then you see the way his leg folded and well, damn.

[Bonegavel]

Watched this at a bar last night and is the first time I watched UFC in toto and I really enjoyed it.

Previously, every time I would come across the UFC on t.v., all I would see were 2 guys hugging on the floor and that just wasn't very exciting to me. Now that I had a friend to explain it all and show me what I was missing, I will be watching this from now on. Good stuff.

[Oilers9911]

Watched this at a bar last night and is the first time I watched UFC in toto and I really enjoyed it.

Previously, every time I would come across the UFC on t.v., all I would see were 2 guys hugging on the floor and that just wasn't very exciting to me. Now that I had a friend to explain it all and show me what I was missing, I will be watching this from now on. Good stuff.

That is the number 1 misconception about MMA is that it is just "two guys hugging on the floor". The more you watch, the more you will learn about what they are actually doing. Trying to improve their position, trying to setup a submission attempt, ground and pound etc. Meanwhile the guy on the bottom is trying to do everything he can to avoid all that. So even when the fight goes to ground, it is a very strategic part of the sport and can be very interesting.

[Rich1033]

Great knockout, but I still have to go with the Cro Cop one as being worse because first it looked like it broke his neck, then you see the way his leg folded and well, damn.

+1

Looks like Rashad now gets the title fight against Forrest.

[dervack]

Why? Rashad is a boring fighter. When he takes it to the ground, he doesn't try and advance his position. When he stands, he flails his arms around to make it look like he's throwing punches. I hope Forrest destroys him.

[MrDNA]

I can't imagine Rashad gets a title shot. Sure, he knocked the snot out of an over-the-hill former champ (I miss the old Chuck!), but that doesn't make him elite.

[PilotMan]

I honestly don't see how Rashad with a win over a guy who wasn't exactly on a winning streak gets a title shot in a division as deep at the LH division is. I would think that he would have to do it again in order to earn that chance.

[Oilers9911]

In the UFC, rankings mean nothing. It's about the big money fight not the most logical fight. That is how you explain Lesnar vs Coture.

[PilotMan]

Lesnar I can actually understand. Nearly unlimited potential, a recognizable face, and besides he is being paid like a main event fighter. If he doesn't live up to it, the money is going to go away. Again though, like Liddell, Couture is getting old, hasn't fought in a while. If I am him, I am a little pissed that I have to fight a guy with so few fights, but also is potentially as dangerous as Lesnar is.

[Rich1033]

Alright, a couple thoughts on a few of the posts above. Im fairly certain Couture had a hand in choosing Lesnar for this fight. Couture will get a percentage of the PPV buys and you have to believe that fight will generate a huge buyrate. Second, who else is he going to fight? Mir and Nog are the coaches of the next TUF and already scheduled to fight each other for the title at a future PPV, so they are out of the question. So Whos left? Kongo is injured I believe, Vera is down at 205, he already beat Gonzaga, the only person left is Werdum. You can make a good argument for him, but thats it. You have to believe Couture and Dana White would much rather take the much bigger payday from the Lesner fight. The fact is the UFC HW division just isnt very deep. Sucks for Werdum, but if he wins another fight or 2 they will have to give him his shot.

As for Rashad, while Im not a big fan, I dont have much of a problem with him getting the title fight. It was widely believed either the winner of Rashad/Chuck or Machida/Silva would fight Forrest. With Silva pulling out of the Machida fight at UFC 89 the winner of the other was going to get the title fight. Im sure the UFC isnt exactly thrilled with that fight.

[Travis]

It's the perfect time for the UFC to give Evans a title shot. He's coming off a highlight reel knockout of *the* knockout artist, is undefeated in UFC competition and at this point the only way his name gets any more recognizable is if he wins the title or can have another stunning finish against another name opponent. May not get it, but it's hard to see him getting any mroe marketable without a title being involved.

[Rich1033]

Evan Tanner, 37, was found dead in the Palo Verde mountain area of California today. Link (http://mmajunkie.com/news/5243/former-ufc-champ-evan-tanner-dead-at-37.mma#comments)

Sad news, I was always a fan of his. Seems like a great guy, and a truly unique and special human being.

[DaddyTorgo]

sad about tanner

as far as the comment above by bonegavel/oilers - count me in the camp who would rather see 2 BJJ guys go at it for 15 minutes than 2 strikers (though i'm coming around to appreciating the striking)

[General Mike]

Members only breaking news on tonight's show
By Dave Meltzer

Tonight's Ken Shamrock vs. Kimbo Slice main event is in jeopardy because of a cut suffered by Ken Shamrock.

Nothing is definite at the moment but we have confirmed a few things. First is that Frank Shamrock, who has not trained at all, did volunteer to take the fight but because he wasn't licensed in Florida the commission nixed it. Seth Petruzelli, who is licensed and was scheduled for the undercard, was also asked but as of last word, Kimbo Slice's people have not accepted the fight.

It is not 100% that Shamrock is off, but at this moment everything is going on the assumption he will not be fighting.

[General Mike]

More breaking news on tonight's show PDF Print E-mail

By Dave Meltzer

With the show ready to start, there is nothing official regarding the main event.

Ken Shamrock, who was scheduled to face Kimbo Slice in the main event, was cut and the match has been off, on, off and may be back on in the past several hours. Ken Shamrock wants to fight but the problem has been getting the commission doctor to approve the fight. As of a few minutes ago, it appeared they were going to let Shamrock fight and the main event would be back on, but nothing is official.

As of 7 p.m. Eastern time it looks like Shamrock has been cleared and the main event is back on. If anything changes,we will post a new update.

[Flasch186]

wow, just wow

[Matthean]

Considering Kimbo's last fight when his opponent had the huge ear issue before going in, I'm wondering if this is doing anything for him at all. I think he's overhyped as is, but getting fights virtually handed to you can't be helping.

The real reason to watch anyway. (http://images.google.com/images?q=gina+carano&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=1&ct=title)

:lol:

[General Mike]

Meltzer is reporting Ken Shamrock is out. Frank Shamrock might be in.

[General Mike]

from Dave Meltzer:

Apparently Slice's camp has agreed to the Petruzelli match and it's on. Nothing has been said officially though.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And a cut saves Shamrock's life by a narrow margin.

[Flasch186]

eh, Shamrock couldve snuck a win against Slice so now that'll happen probably in Jan/Feb, I am sure if ratings stay decent tonight.

[JonInMiddleGA]

eh, Shamrock couldve snuck a win against Slice so now that'll happen probably in Jan/Feb, I am sure if ratings stay decent tonight.

At this point I have no confidence that Shamrock could beat anybody with a pulse even in Vince booked him to go over.

[Flasch186]

WOW, what a terrible ref job in the first match. The hitter stands there and basically says to the ref, "hey ref, wanna step in here? No? OK." CRACK, "how bout now? no? ok." CRACK and finally the ref, RELUCTANTLY steps in. Asshat. I hope they never use him again.

[DaddyTorgo]

would be great if Seth could pull out the win here and end the Kimbo-phenomenon

[MikeVic]

I agree.

That girl fighter earlier was pretty cute.

[DaddyTorgo]

i missed the girls. just tuned in for the last like...45 minutes

[DaddyTorgo]

why does kimbo have a tat on one pec and hair on the other? it looks fuckin weird

[MikeVic]

hahaha

[DaddyTorgo]

HAHAHA


that was great

[JonInMiddleGA]

Oops.

[spleen1015]

ROFL.

[TLK]

Oh my.

[DeToxRox]

Oh man that was awesome.

[MikeVic]

Poor guy.

[DaddyTorgo]

idk wtf kimbo was thinking trying to shoot on a guy who's a legit fighter who was back against the cage, but man seth made him pay by dancin around and raining down the hammer-fists.


kimbo rolling onto his back after the blows was the decider though...he rolled and didn't get seth into the guard to control it or anything, so he just kept eating fists

[VPI97]

lol @ Kimbo

[General Mike]

WTFPWNED, as they say.

[JonInMiddleGA]

And so ends primetime MMA on CBS, unless Ortiz really signs with them & they use him for a draw, without Kimbo they don't have enough oomph to keep the deal alive IMO.

[DaddyTorgo]

14 seconds...LOL

[DeToxRox]

And with Kimbo's loss ends EliteXC

[Flasch186]

I disagree, Tito Ortiz, Frank Shamrock, a Ken Shamrock v. Kimbo rematch where they air the weigh in footage over and over and over.....and Carrano. It will DEFINITELY get another airing and we havnt even got the ratings yet. I will bet 3R on it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It's like the XFL all over again ;)

[DaddyTorgo]

love mauro "oh we gotta give kimbo a mulligan on this one" ranallo -- uhhhhh no

[MikeVic]

I'll watch this another time for that girl.

[Deattribution]

Nobody should be surprised that Kimbo isn't very good, but he's still going to be a draw. He'll get at least one more fight as a draw, where he can say he learned from his last fight ect ect (or make up some excuses) then depending on how good he looks, that could be it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

I disagree, Tito Ortiz, Frank Shamrock, a Ken Shamrock v. Kimbo rematch where they air the weigh in footage over and over and over.....and Carrano. It will DEFINITELY get another airing and we havnt even got the ratings yet. I will bet 3R on it.

Doesn't sound as though the organization will survive long enough for it to happen (assuming the financial details of this editorial (http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles/the-kimbo-slice-bubble-14636) are correct)

They had to borrow money just to get through to tonight after accruing over $50 million in debt already. Kimbo was the franchise, only Carano has any marketability to the masses & that's largely a sideshow itself (albeit a talented sideshow perhaps). They might be able to work something with Ortiz in a last ditch effort to save themselves but that's the only shot I see left for them. As fighters go, Ken is one of the best talkers left, pity the tank is so obviously empty. And Frank? Well let's be honest, do you really see him as a guy who can save a company at this stage of his career?

They'd have a better shot at drawing ratings if they went back to the roots & just showed a toughman contest from a bar somewhere.

[Matthean]

And so ends primetime MMA on CBS, unless Ortiz really signs with them & they use him for a draw, without Kimbo they don't have enough oomph to keep the deal alive IMO.

The only guy they really promoted during commercials was Edor. Kimbo was just a side show really waiting to be exposed at some point. I'm not sure how fitting it was happening like this. They have some other guys to promote up, but are they willing to actually do that? Too bad one of the most marketable fighters they have is Gina since women fighters are a tough sell and the depth of talent just isn't there to promote up.

Lost in all of this is that Shamrock has to be pissed that he won't get the chance to be the guy to expose him.

[Deattribution]

Tito isn't going to be saving the company (or Affliction) anytime soon since he's having back surgery that will put him out for 6+ months.

[Deattribution]

If EliteXC had been smart, they would of let Kimbo get exposed by someone they could market (maybe Brett Rogers), and that would at least of given them someone to push moving forward. They were planning on riding this Kimbo train for as long as they could though, which was a terrible business plan.

[TLK]

I'm guessing this fight did good numbers. It might be enough to get another contract out of CBS.

[Rich1033]

Nothing against Kimbo, but its nice to see the hype finally hit a bit of a wall. He would do well against fighters with similiar experience as him, but he doesnt have much of a shot against decent fighters. That said, he will still beat Shamrock. Thats just how bad Ken is nowadays.

I believe EliteXC will last just past this coming PPV they want to put on. Thats probably where the Slice/Shamrock match will take place as well as the next Carano match.

[Rich1033]

The only guy they really promoted during commercials was Edor.

Im guessing you are talking about Fedor, and he doesnt even fight for EliteXC(and never will). Those commercials were just part of the cross promotion between Affliction and EliteXC since Affliction gave them the Arlovski/Nelson fight.

I do have to say this. I give credit to EliteXC for actually putting on a really solid card. I could care less about Kimbo, but I was really looking forward to seeing every other fight on the card. It was full of some very good fighters. You cant beat seeing Arlovski, Carano, Ninja Rua, Radach and Shields all fight for free.

[Flasch186]

Welp, if that editorial is correct Elite XC will most DEF be a Showtime owned promotion because there is no way that theyll be able to get another loan in this credit cycle. HOWEVER that doesnt mean it wont have shows and continue on under their flag jon.

[DrAFTjunkie]

Kimbo needs to go back to fighting helpless fat guys. What a hack. I'm not even sure what happened. Kimbo didn't shoot, he was throwing a right and just stiffened up and fell over mid-punch. It sort of looks like Petruzelli caught him with a little bit knee and a little bit of right hand at the exact same time. Watch the fight again, but just watch Kimbo. He didn't shoot, he didn't slip, he just fell

YouTube - Kimbo Slice Vs Seth Petruzelli EliteXC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BdJOLLQ_BQ)

It doesn't add up though because Kimbo is an absolute rock head. Unless the knee hit harder than it appeared to, or the right hit him directly in the temple, I'm at a loss.

[DaddyTorgo]

idk - my thinking was that that was sorta kimbo's attempt at a shoot or at spearing seth against the cage? it sure was awkward as hell though

[Eaglesfan27]

I just watched the fight and it looked to me like it was a combination of an awkward attempt to shoot and him getting caught off guard by the knee/hand combo. The other fights were all entertaining.

[Karlifornia]

God damnit, Kimbo. You could have been a huge star....if only you were any good.

Damn. You suck, Kimbo...back to being a bouncer or whatever. That is what washed up MMA guys do for work, right?

[EagleFan]

He should have lost his last fight but hey did everything they could to make sure he wins. Then the late change in this one made me think theywere afraid he would get destroyed by Shamrock and replaced him with someone they thought would be a push over for Kimbo. Boy did that backfire.

UFC FTW

[Oilers9911]

If Gina Carano had lost too the Elite XC execs would have been found hanging in their hotel rooms. As it is they are probably on a ledge somewhere.

[Calis]

I would not be the least surprised to see Gina lose to Cyborg if they schedule that fight next. That's an actual pretty interesting fight that Elite XC could setup, but man it needs to be 5 minute rounds. This 3 minute deal for the women just doesn't make sense.

We all knew this was going to happen to Kimbo, but I wouldn't have bet on it happening quite that way.

I missed something though, because I didn't even realize Arlovski was fighting on this card and I guess it was a late addition. Is he not going to fight Barnett at the next Affliction show? I was really looking forward to that one, but I'm hoping if it is off they just let Barnett face-off against Fedor next. That's still the match-up I want to see most for Fedor. I think it's a better one than versus Randy or anyone else.

Overall I thought it was a pretty good show for EliteXC. There were the two fights with lots of hugging against the cage but other than that it was an entertaining show, and even those fights were still good.

[Flasch186]

Wow, you have to understand who their target audience is. It isn't us. Theyre trying to get the 'mainstream' boxing fans to switch. So a guy on a days notice, David, beats goliath and to top it off the David is a good looking kid with Pink in his hair and he leaves film on the table of him throwing his mouthpiece in the air and running around the ring in a circle. Then you have a hot chick beating up her foe and looking great in the audience an hour later. You have names like Ortiz and Shamrock thrown around and you have CBS getting what I will bet to be above average ratings.

Honestly, I think I could put together some promos and a card in 2 months that will definitely get airtime on CBS again. The stories are compelling.

[Rich1033]

He should have lost his last fight but hey did everything they could to make sure he wins. Then the late change in this one made me think theywere afraid he would get destroyed by Shamrock and replaced him with someone they thought would be a push over for Kimbo. Boy did that backfire.

lol, nope, I dont think anyone in EliteXC was afraid Shamrock would do anything to Kimbo. Them being forced to just find someone at the last minute was the last thing they wanted.


I missed something though, because I didn't even realize Arlovski was fighting on this card and I guess it was a late addition. Is he not going to fight Barnett at the next Affliction show? I was really looking forward to that one, but I'm hoping if it is off they just let Barnett face-off against Fedor next. That's still the match-up I want to see most for Fedor. I think it's a better one than versus Randy or anyone else.

The next Affliction show with Arlovski/Barnett was canceled(or postponed? not sure how they worded it, but ticket sales were horrible). They came to an agreement about 2 weeks ago with XC to give them Arlovski/Nelson in exchange for the promotion and Im sure something else. That was the 3rd fight on last nights card.

The next Affliction show will be in January I believe. Fedor will return and fight, although Im not sure if they have announced who. I cant see how it would not be Barnett tho.

[Oilers9911]

I'm afraid poor Miss Carano won't be looking so pretty in the audience after she fights Cyborg. She was eating some shots against the girl tonight and if she eats shots from Cyborg like that she will get messed up bad.

[Deattribution]

The next Affliction show will be in January I believe. Fedor will return and fight, although Im not sure if they have announced who. I cant see how it would not be Barnett tho.

Barnett already said he doesn't want the Fedor fight in Jan, so the only fight that leaves is Arlovski vs Fedor, and that will be over very quickly with a sub by Fedor.

Odds are though that the next Affliction show doesn't happen, or is the last show they have.

Wow, you have to understand who their target audience is. It isn't us. Theyre trying to get the 'mainstream' boxing fans to switch. So a guy on a days notice, David, beats goliath and to top it off the David is a good looking kid with Pink in his hair and he leaves film on the table of him throwing his mouthpiece in the air and running around the ring in a circle. Then you have a hot chick beating up her foe and looking great in the audience an hour later. You have names like Ortiz and Shamrock thrown around and you have CBS getting what I will bet to be above average ratings.

Honestly, I think I could put together some promos and a card in 2 months that will definitely get airtime on CBS again. The stories are compelling.

If the audience isn't 'us' then the mainstream boxing fans don't even know who any of those people even are, and all they see is a old wrinkly Shamrock, another one with so much metal in his mouth he couldn't fight a chicken and a smug looking gorilla with blonde hair who hasn't won a decisive fight that didn't involve Ken Shamrock since 2001.

[dervack]

Im guessing you are talking about Fedor, and he doesnt even fight for EliteXC(and never will).

No, he meant Edor. Edor will return. I'm not sure Edor is, but the comercials said he would return. I hope he's ok.

[JonInMiddleGA]

If the audience isn't 'us' then the mainstream boxing fans don't even know who any of those people even are, and all they see is a old wrinkly Shamrock, another one with so much metal in his mouth he couldn't fight a chicken and a smug looking gorilla with blonde hair who hasn't won a decisive fight that didn't involve Ken Shamrock since 2001.

The audience isn't "mainstream boxing fans" either, why on earth would they go after a target that small? I doubt two percent of the population could name five active boxers today, hell I'm not sure I could name more than five myself without prompting.

The target audience is anyone who's home on Saturday night's watching network TV. And that means an older cross section of America. Which means they've got to come up with a compelling story of some sort to have a hope in hell of getting people to watch.

Kimbo was a monster, a brute, an animal, meant to be an unstoppable force. That's something Joe & Sue Sixpack can follow, so can Fred & Ethel Metamucil ... But so much for that idea. Carano has a character of sorts, a "how can a girl do that" thing going. From what I gather there's potential for this Cyborg chick to be built into a character as well.

But Shamrock? At most they can get one more loss out of him, a guy more recognizable as a former WWE performer who I'm not sure could beat five well chosen FOFC'ers at this point. He's 3-8 this DECADE for God's sake and hasn't won a fight in more than four YEARS. He's more likely to die in the ring than he is to beat anything more viable than a tomato can. Ortiz? IMO, too reminiscent of boxers people already don't give a rat's ass about (i.e. more annoying than interesting) but they might be able to get one useful appearance out of him. And last night's surprise winner? I'd say they'll have a hell of a time playing the Rocky card to middle America with a guy with pink streaks in his hair.

[Deattribution]

'd say they'll have a hell of a time playing the Rocky card to middle America with a guy with pink streaks in his hair.

To be fair here, I think he had pink streaks in his hair for National Breast Cancer Awareness month which I know he didn't mention, but I think he was so blown away by the moment considering he wasn't even going to be on TV initially.

[JonInMiddleGA]

To be fair here, I think he had pink streaks in his hair for National Breast Cancer Awareness month which I know he didn't mention, but I think he was so blown away by the moment considering he wasn't even going to be on TV initially.

If that's indeed the case then I'm happy to give him a pass on it, I figured it was just a pseudo-punk fashion statement. Then again, if I didn't know then I imagine most of the audience watching last night didn't know & therefore the damage to his marketability with the audience is probably done either way.

[Flasch186]

Barnett already said he doesn't want the Fedor fight in Jan, so the only fight that leaves is Arlovski vs Fedor, and that will be over very quickly with a sub by Fedor.

Odds are though that the next Affliction show doesn't happen, or is the last show they have.



If the audience isn't 'us' then the mainstream boxing fans don't even know who any of those people even are, and all they see is a old wrinkly Shamrock, another one with so much metal in his mouth he couldn't fight a chicken and a smug looking gorilla with blonde hair who hasn't won a decisive fight that didn't involve Ken Shamrock since 2001.

you have no idea what weight the name 'Shamrock' has to the uninformed.

and Jon me and you could very easily sit around the table and work up an entire marketing scheme to get the next CBS card over just on promos alone and video highlights. This event last night did only a slight bit of damage to the ability to make it 'work' however if the editorial's financial picture is true than those are problems that are more difficult to overcome.

[Deattribution]

you have no idea what weight the name 'Shamrock' has to the uninformed.

and Jon me and you could very easily sit around the table and work up an entire marketing scheme to get the next CBS card over just on promos alone and video highlights. This event last night did only a slight bit of damage to the ability to make it 'work' however if the editorial's financial picture is true than those are problems that are more difficult to overcome.

I think you're really overestimating the value of all this, including Shamrock.

The only way EliteXC last is if they make money, and the only way they make money is if they get people to buy PPVs, which they intend on doing but may never get to. Nobody will pay to see Shamrock (either of them) Kimbo, Carano ect. Even Ortiz, he's worth some buys but he's not stupid enough to get onto a sinking ship. In the last couple months he's been joining Affliction, EliteXC, starting his own promotion, returning to the UFC. Basically as always, he's doing anything to get his name out there, and hopes the UFC bites.

[JonInMiddleGA]

you have no idea what weight the name 'Shamrock' has to the uninformed.

Actually Flasch, we both should have a pretty good idea. "None whatsoever" to the truly uninformed, as that implies they know zero about him. And to the tangently interested, Vince's inability to get the guy over provides a pretty good insight into how marketable he is to a considerable portion of the available audience.

and Jon me and you could very easily sit around the table and work up an entire marketing scheme to get the next CBS card over just on promos alone and video highlights.

We could ... but CBS isn't likely too IMO. Airing this at all was controversial inside the network, there's no sign that they're going to put forth much effort beyond the standard level. And the promotional efforts by Elite that were made leading up to last night (as either that editorial I linked mentioned, or a couple of others I read last night referenced, can't remember which) turned into personality ops for Slice & Carano far more than event publicity.

The problem is that outside of those two (and the Cyborg), I really don't see much to promote to the masses here. And Slice just got devalued heavily. There might be something that could be done with pink hair boy from last night but that's iffy at best IMO (depending upon his regular packaging, he seemed more like street trash that the average stay-at-home viewer on Saturday would avoid on the street than be interested in watching or knowing more about). Otherwise, what are you going to promote when you consider that the vast majority of these guys are anonymous with their own genre, much less the mainstream. Right now even good competitive fights in this promotion are ultimately as compelling as watching two strangers on the street in a random scuffle.

[Flasch186]

Carano EASY
Cyborg EASY
Pink haired guy EASY
If you can get Arlovsky again (EASY with his fangs)
Shamrock will sell to the Saturday nostalgia viewer who thinks to himself ("Hey, Ive heard of that guy....he kicks ass")
Tito Ortiz (see above)

I see 2-3 matchups there that are good enough for a saturday night AND sellable.

[Matthean]

Carano EASY
Cyborg EASY
Pink haired guy EASY
If you can get Arlovsky again (EASY with his fangs)
Shamrock will sell to the Saturday nostalgia viewer who thinks to himself ("Hey, Ive heard of that guy....he kicks ass")
Tito Ortiz (see above)

I see 2-3 matchups there that are good enough for a saturday night AND sellable.

I would add Shields in there as well.

[Flasch186]

Shields isnt aimed at the same target as those i listed above. If I can get someone to turn on due to shields, bonus.

[Deattribution]

If that's indeed the case then I'm happy to give him a pass on it, I figured it was just a pseudo-punk fashion statement. Then again, if I didn't know then I imagine most of the audience watching last night didn't know & therefore the damage to his marketability with the audience is probably done either way.

Okay, so maybe he's not too marketable as a 'tough guy' afterall :D

hxxp://deadspin.com/5059233/meet-the-man-who-felled-kimbo

[JonInMiddleGA]

Okay, so maybe he's not too marketable as a 'tough guy' afterall :D

hxxp://deadspin.com/5059233/meet-the-man-who-felled-kimbo

On behalf of Elite XC I can only say "Whew"
hxxp://www.bustedcoverage.com/?p=7817
Busted Coverage: Booze, Ladies And Football » Seth Petruzelli Knocked Out Kimbo, Isn’t Really Into Gay Ground And Pound

[Karlifornia]

If that's indeed the case then I'm happy to give him a pass on it, I figured it was just a pseudo-punk fashion statement. Then again, if I didn't know then I imagine most of the audience watching last night didn't know & therefore the damage to his marketability with the audience is probably done either way.

I don't know, Jon..how old are you? I think my generation looks past things like pink hair now, shocking as that may sound. I mean, after all...it is just hair we're talking about here..not a mile long rap sheet.

[Karlifornia]

It doesn't matter what he does or doesn't stick his dick into. If it matters to you, then you need get a hobby or something, and not worry so much about other people.

[JonInMiddleGA]

It doesn't matter what he does or doesn't stick his dick into. If it matters to you, then you need get a hobby or something, and not worry so much about other people.

Aside from what I think of the morality of the subject personally, we were talking about what in this portion of the thread? Yep, that's right, the marketability of certain fighters.

And if you think there wouldn't be additional issues marketing a gay MMA fighter then you're so out of touch with reality that you would really be better served in the future by remaining silent & allowing people to assume your ignorance rather than operating a keyboard & proving it.

[Maple Leafs]

And if you think there wouldn't be additional issues marketing a gay MMA fighter then you're so out of touch with reality that you would really be better served in the future by remaining silent & allowing people to assume your ignorance rather than operating a keyboard & proving it.
Purely from a marketing standpoint, don't forget that people will also pay to watch somebody they want to see get knocked out.

An openly gay MMA champion would probably draw plenty of buys, from at least two very distinct audiences.

(i.e. cool people, and bigoted losers)

[JonInMiddleGA]

An openly gay MMA champion would probably draw plenty of buys, from at least two very distinct audiences. [/SIZE]

LOL, nice try. But you've got to be smoking crack if you think it'd be a net plus for a company trying to survive on network television.

[Flasch186]

Net not a a plus but this is quite possibly the easiest marketing job I could have IF, and this is a big IF, I get ad time on TV where I need it to be and unlimited usage of cameras, editing, and on air talent.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Net not a a plus but this is quite possibly the easiest marketing job I could have IF, and this is a big IF, I get ad time on TV where I need it to be and unlimited usage of cameras, editing, and on air talent.

And if your Aunt Sally had different plumbing, she'd be your Uncle Fred.

[Karlifornia]

Aside from what I think of the morality of the subject personally, we were talking about what in this portion of the thread? Yep, that's right, the marketability of certain fighters.

And if you think there wouldn't be additional issues marketing a gay MMA fighter then you're so out of touch with reality that you would really be better served in the future by remaining silent & allowing people to assume your ignorance rather than operating a keyboard & proving it.

Why not give it a try? It's easier to sit back and maintain the perceived status-quo, than it is to to break new ground, and pave the path to a better world. It's risky. There are issues with him having pink hair, and pictures of him kissing dudes, sadly. What I am wondering is if people react negatively to that because they feel they would be labeled negatively as a consequence, rather than them really feeling hatred toward the participants of that behavior.

I think most people just float along with the current, knowing that they are out of harms reach by doing so. I think that someone with a relatively wide-reaching platform (like EliteXC) could surprise people just enough by coming out and saying "Hey, we support gay fighters"..and the tide could slowly turn. It wasn't long ago that people were saying the same thing about Jackie Robinson.

None of this matters at this point, though, because Seth Petruzelli is probably not gay.

[Maple Leafs]

LOL, nice try. But you've got to be smoking crack if you think it'd be a net plus for a company trying to survive on network television.
Yeah, it would definitely be an easier sell for UFC.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Sounds like a lot of industry talk in this thread, but add me to the list that enjoyed the show on Saturday. I don't know a whole lot about the MMA scene, but I enjoyed watching that Caruso girl. She looked like the girl next door walking into that ring and flashed a great smile. Then she proceeded to bludgeon that other girl, much to my surprise and delight.

[PilotMan]

I liked the fights as well. I was very happy to see Kimbo get beaten. I think that it is better for everyone if he was exposed now as opposed to later. We will see soon enough if Lesar can live up to his hype or be exposed as completely out of Couture's league. I like where UFC is going with their heavyweight division over the next little while. Too bad, they can't get Fedor in there, it would end all competition.

[TLK]

Report: Ken Shamrock was going to be “paid to stand with him as well” (http://www.fightopinion.com/2008/10/07/report-ken-shamrock-was-going-to-be-paid-to-stand-with-him-as-well/)

By Zach Arnold (http://www.fightopinion.com/) | October 7, 2008 | Print This (http://blogprint2.smartwebprinting.com/blogPrint/servlet?action=printDialog&pbID=1562)

<!--post text with the read more link--> Update: In this radio interview (http://media002.f4wonline.com/free/100708wo.mp3) (time mark - 40 minutes), Dave Meltzer claims that he had heard about the Seth Petruzelli “stand-up” scenario before Petruzelli himself brought it up on the radio on Monday morning. “He’s backtracking. Uhm… I will also say that the story that he said, I had heard that story, uhm, long before, uh Seth Petruzelli said it. So, I believe it to be true. I cannot tell you that as a fact.”
Meltzer hopes that the athletic commission(s) looks into this and that this type of demand should not be allowed unless the commission sanctions a fight specifically as a stand-up match and markets such a bout to the public that way.
Start of original posting
This report is in the latest edition of Figure Four Weekly (http://www.f4wonline.com/), published by Bryan Alvarez:Seth Petruzelli said that he was paid to stand with Kimbo. Well, he said that and then he claimed he never said it. For what it’s worth, we heard in the days leading up to the fight that Ken Shamrock was being paid to stand with him as well. It’s a pretty shady way of doing business, and while it’s not outright working the fight it is attempting to give one man an advantage — or a perceived advantage, as did didn’t help Kimbo one goddamn bit — over another.
You can subscribe to Bryan’s publication by going to F4WOnline.com (http://www.f4wonline.com/).
Within the timespan of 24 hours, we have Seth Petruzelli’s radio interview comments on EXC management allegedly ‘kinda’ hinting that they wanted him to stand-up only against Kimbo Slice and now we have Bryan Alvarez putting his name on the line by flat out reporting that Ken Shamrock was going to be ‘paid to stand with [Kimbo]’ as well. The audio already exists of Petruzelli’s comments, and Alvarez has put his reported claims in print to his readership.
Now, compare Petruzelli’s initial comments and Alvarez’s report to comments Jared Shaw made to MMA Weekly last night (http://www.mmaweekly.com/absolutenm/templates/dailynews.asp?articleid=7294&zoneid=2):“Why in a million years would we ask Seth to not take Kimbo down? That’s crazy. That’s all Kimbo’s been working on is the ground game. Ken Shamrock, 84 percent of his wins are submission and through the ground, so Kimbo was ready for the ground. If anybody knows Seth Petruzelli, he’s a K-1 fighter, I wouldn’t want him standing. So to say ‘don’t take him down,’ that’s ridiculous.”
Petruzelli lost his two matches in K-1 competition, including a loss to Bob Sapp… all of this in 2004.
Fight fixing or bribery to alter the outcome of what is supposed to be a legitimate, sanctioned fight is a felony in the United States. Again, this is not Japan. This is not professional wrestling. Elite XC’s event was sanctioned by the Florida State Athletic Commission. There’s a lot of reasons to care about this story. If what Petruzelli and/or Alvarez said is true, then people involved in the production of last Saturday’s event should be prosecuted. Prosecutions for similar-type crimes has happened before in the fight industry, so there’s no excuse to let this incident go unpunished if indeed any crimes were actually commited.
In regards to media coverage of this situation, this should not simply be a one-day-and-go-away news story. We are talking about the image of MMA being tarnished in the States and the implications are damaging for everyone involved in the business. It’s a lousy scenario for everyone who supports this business and a fight fixing scandal of this magnitude could certainly turn off potential corporate sponsors — the kind of corporate sponsors Elite XC wants to get to survive as a company if they want to make it to their fourth event on CBS.




It goes from bad to worse...

[Rich1033]

I dont think you can compare Brock Lesnar to Kimbo. Lesnar is a legit top wrestler who already has a win against a guy that is better than anyone Kimbo will ever fight(and I know that doesnt say much). Lesnar just needs some experience while Kimbo needs some talent.

Ths big thing to me about Lernar/Couture is that its 5 rounds. The longer it goes the better Couture should be. Thats when his experience should really start to take over.

[PilotMan]

Well, that's the point that I was really making. Lesnar is green by MMA standards, and the argument was whether he should even be in that fight after 3 fights. Should he be pushed as a main event draw before he is established, like Kimbo?

[Calis]

Well, that's the point that I was really making. Lesnar is green by MMA standards, and the argument was whether he should even be in that fight after 3 fights. Should he be pushed as a main event draw before he is established, like Kimbo?

I think in the UFC's case it's a good move. There HW division has been weak, and it's done a complete turnaround due to this fight. People are excited, and it's a no-lose situation for them. If Randy wins, he's Randy. I don't think that reflects too poorly on Lesnar, and if Lesnar wins he's instantly credible and sets up a huge fight with Nog or Mir.

So I think from a business standpoint it's a good move for them.

From a sporting standpoint? No way he's earned a title shot. He beat a gatekeeper and lost to a guy who also shouldn't be getting a title shot. The problem is who else do they put in for the title? I think Werdum is the one getting the short end here because he should be next on the list.

I don't think Lesnar deserves to be there, but I can't fault the UFC for doing it and he matches up very well against Randy.

[Travis]

Well, that's the point that I was really making. Lesnar is green by MMA standards, and the argument was whether he should even be in that fight after 3 fights. Should he be pushed as a main event draw before he is established, like Kimbo?

Big difference in the sense that Kimbo is (was) EliteXC while anybody following UFC recognizes that the HW division is their weakest division and while Couture is a marketable name, after him it's pretty dry. If Brock were in any other weight division in the UFC, even with his "name" he wouldn't be getting a shot this quick. Of the young guys making a push to improve that division Brock is the best draw right now.

Earned it, no, a more legitmate MMA fighter than Kimbo right now, definitely. As big of a role in the company as Kimbo, not even close.

[Deattribution]

Something I never understood with Kimbo - His most recent fight he gets 500k (and lost out on an additional 100k by losing), and how I understand it they upped his purse to 'make it worth his while' to fight Petruzelli, and his fight before that I believe he made 250k.

Now my question is, who in their right mind pays Kimbo, a completely unproven fighter that kind of money?

Who were they bidding against? There is absolutely no way the UFC would of paid him over 100k, if that, and that's assuming the UFC ever even wanted him. So who does that leave to pay him? Affliction? At the time of his signing, they weren't even around, Strikeforce couldn't pay that kind of dough, and theres really no other viable options. It just seems like decisions like that is why EliteXC will be gone in a year.

[Maple Leafs]

Who were they bidding against?
They're bidding against the option of not having him. Who else is EliteXC going to have headline a primetime network TV slot?

[Deattribution]

They're bidding against the option of not having him. Who else is EliteXC going to have headline a primetime network TV slot?

What was he gonna do, stay fighting on youtube instead of taking 50k or 80k a fight?

[SirFozzie]

If Chris Leben established the baseline of acting like an ass on The Ultimate Fighter (1.0), Junie is about a 23.4 on that scale. Wow.

[Travis]

If Junie isn't kicked off next episode that might be it for me for TUF. I was quite disappointed he wasn't booted last night and it sure didn't take him very long to regress back to his norm.

That or hell, just put him straight into a match with Nog.

[SirFozzie]

Travis, you may be done with TUF. Someone reminded me elsewhere that there was a bit on the season preview where Dana says to someone (not shown) . "Dude, you should have been kicked out three times already".

This might have only been part two of three or four.

[Arctic Blast]

The guy is an obnoxious little prick...problem is, he's also one of the few guys on the show this year who looks like you could be a legit fighter. They really need to stop running this thing twice a year, because they're running out of guys.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Happened to run across part of an interesting show on National Geographic Channel a few minutes ago. Fight Science researching MMA, including a segment with Randy Couture. They tested his lactic acid level at rest, then tested it again after he locked a sparring partner in a guillotine choke for 60 seconds ... and the levels went down like 20% (from 5.something to 4.something). As one of the researchers said "you're not human", which seems like as good an explanation as any to me.

edit -- Heh. The program ended with a clip of Ortiz slamming a crash test dummy ... and breaking the arm off at the shoulder.

[AlexB]

Anybody watching UFC 89?

England's 0-2 so far, and despite the crowd booing the Taylor/Lytle decision I thought Lytle was a clear winner.

A couple of decent, but not spectacular, fights so far - I think the UFC know it's a relatively weak card: I didn;t appreciate UFC 90 was the week after! Is it PPV over there?

[Arctic Blast]

Anybody watching UFC 89? England's 0-2 so far, and despite the crowd booing the Taylor/Lytle decision I thought Lytle was a clear winner.

A couple of decent, but not spectacular, fights so far - I think the UFC know it's a relatively weak card: I didn;t appreciate UFC 90 was the week after! Is it PPV over there?

Would have been a better card if Thiago Silva hadn't hurt his back, which forced the cancellation of his gith with Machida. Actually kinda curious to see who they put in with Machida now...every other upper echelon light heavyweight seems to be tied up already...so does he just wait around for Silva to heal up?

[Flasch186]

i think its on tape delay - spike TV tonight (at least I hope so)

[AlexB]

Even Count ;) Good fight. Surprisingly Leben across with a lot of class as well.

Not sure about the boos during the Jardine/Vera fight: it wasn't that bad, but every time I've seen Brandon Vera I get the feeling he doesn't really want to be there. I don't know where he goes now tbh - drops down to LHW to avoid mismatches and in the two LHW fights I've seen he still looks weak.

[Deattribution]

No need to worry about how to market the next Kimbo show --


ProElite/EliteXC is Finished

Sources have confirmed that ProElite, which is the parent company for EliteXC, will be closing its doors this Friday. Sources close to the situation verified that the employees for the struggling MMA company received word today that the company’s last day of work will be this Friday. During the company’s two years of business, it has been reported that they have lost nearly $60 Million, causing many to believe that, despite their valuable deal with CBS, it was only a matter of time before the ship sank.

Graciefighter.com, which is run by Caesar Gracie, the Brazilian Jiu Jitsu coach for ProElite fighters Nick Diaz and Jake Shields, posted the following message on their website, confirming the report:

"We are confirming that EliteXC has folded. What this means for our fans and supporters is that there will not be a Nick Diaz vs. Eddie Alvarez fight on November 8th. However Jake Shields in the UFC has now become a real possibility. We will be updating our site for future developments."

In ProElite’s attempt to be more competitive to the UFC’s stranglehold on MMA, they acquired a number of smaller MMA promotions, most notably King of the Cage and Cage Rage. Rumble on the Rock, the Hawaiian promotion owned by JD Penn, the older brother of UFC lightweight champion BJ Penn, had been leasing his promotion to ProElite. Our sources have confirmed that JD was laid off this afternoon as well.

EliteXC just held their third CBS promotion, “Heat,” last month, which turned out to be another primetime ratings success. However, on the event, the company’s golden boy and former street fighter, Kevin “Kimbo Slice” Ferguson, was knocked out by MMA journeyman Seth Petruzelli in 14 seconds. As he fell to the mat, it seems as though he took EliteXC’s hopes for a future with him as well.

Two days after the upset, Petruzelli went on a local Florida radio show stating that EliteXC management offered him more money if he made his fight against Kimbo strictly a stand up battle. The Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation, which oversees the Florida State Boxing Commission, is currently investigating EliteXC regarding Petruzelli’s claims.

Word is that Petruzelli’s statements and the investigation were the final nails in ProElite’s coffin.

Petruzelli took down the 'legendary' Kimbo and the entire company all in one night. Impressive.

[Rich1033]

Good stuff, thats what they get. Marketing Kimbo like that was one of the most shortsighted things I have seen. They did have some good fighters, Im excited to see where they end up. I guess Im also curious to see where Kimbo ends up.

[dervack]

Good stuff, thats what they get. Marketing Kimbo like that was one of the most shortsighted things I have seen. They did have some good fighters, Im excited to see where they end up. I guess Im also curious to see where Kimbo ends up.
Hopefully back to the backyards. My guess is that Affliction will sign him, if anyone, since Dana has said he wouldn't sign Kimbo when someone mistaken Kimbo for a UFC fighter. I'm more disappointed that it'll be harder to see fighters like Nick Diaz and Gina Carrano in the US, since Diaz probably wore out his welcome in the UFC and Dana is not a big fan of Women's MMA. And what about Robbie Lawler? They had some good fighters, but no real great ones.

[EagleFan]

In another unexpected turn of events the sun will rise tomorrow.

Who didn't see this coming? That company put on some of the most fraudulent fights this side of WWE. You knew they tried to pick fighters to tank it for the overrated Kimbo, other fight outcomes were jokes with early stoppages when it looked like the fighter they were marketing would lose it it went to the judges (or would find it even harder to explain if the judges declared their marketed favorites the winner).

[Calis]

I really wanted to see Alvarez vs. Diaz so that's disappointing and was looking forward to seeing Cyborg take on Carano. I hope we get to see those fights take place on another show.

Shields would be nice to see in the UFC, but the people who think he'd give the likes of GSP trouble are insane. I was disappointed with the way he looked in his last fight. He's still a top guy, but I'm not sure where he'd fall in the UFC division.

Is Strikeforce fine in all this? I wonder if we'll see them try to grow a bit more or what. I know they partnered with them, but I don't think there was any ownership.

[PilotMan]

Robbie Lawler, Alvarez and Shields all would be good draws for the UFC. I wonder where Mark Cuban is going to be in all of this? I hadn't been following the aftermath all that closely and had no idea that Ken Shamrock had a disagreement with EXC before his fight and used his training session that he was ultimately hurt at to blow off steam. It's funny how all this drama has turned out. Still I think that there is room here for another #2 promotion in the US. The UFC won't gobble them all up and there is too much talent out there that needs a place to go to get exposure.

[Arctic Blast]

Elite XC was an absolute debacle. Horribly, horribly run promotion.

Shields will be in the UFC...they basically have a stranglehold on the welterweight division, and they'll land him. They probably also land Paul Daley, who's a pretty exciting fighter, and extremely popular in the UK, where they're trying to increase their exposure. Alvarez is a real UFC possibility, but I've read he really likes fighting in Japan, so we'll see with him. Diaz probably ends up with Strikeforce or Affliction. Lawler could easily end up back in the UFC, or could be a high profile get, again, for either Affliction or Strikeforce. Feijao goes UFC.

[Rich1033]

Id love to see Eddie Alvarez in the UFC, but I cant see him doing anything that denies him the chance to return to Japan to fight Joakim Hansen for the Deam title. Other than that, Id hope the UFC picks up a guy or two(Im thinking Rodgers) to flesh out their HW division. ProElite had a ton of guys that put on good fights, Im just not sure if any of them can challenge UFC's top talent.

Strikeforce is working with NBC, Im sure they will try to take this chance to bolster their roster with some entertaining fighters. It would be nice if Affliction could build up some other divisions, but Im not sure if they are in a position to spend much more money.

[DeToxRox]

With all that promotion for Fedor on CBS during the Elite show I wonder if Affliction is going to try partnering with CBS for a few shows.

[BYU 14]

The biggest downside for me is that I really wanted to see a Carano vs Cyborg fight....hopefully somebody puts this together still.

[saldana]

This is amusing considering that during the CBS show, they showed Tito Ortiz at ringside, and talked to him about the possibility of him being in EXC. He basically said that within the very near future he would be signing with them...if they were on the verge of going broke, I wonder how they planned on affording what would have been the most recognizable name in their stable.

I also wonder where that leaves him with Dana and UFC since he is now more or less homeless.

[PilotMan]

Can't believe that nobody is talking about last nights fights. I have to believe that White wasn't real happy to see Werdum get knocked silly after promoting him as the next guy in line. Also, Silva looked to be toying with Cote, in fact, the fight was really good, it just looked like it was going to get a whole lot better as the rounds went on. I wonder what a Silva v. Forrest Griffin fight would look like? I thought that the crowd sucked last night. They seemed to be booing everything and everyone. The refs seemed to be warning the guys a lot for anything that went to the ground. Personally, I really would hate to see the ground games be less and less important just for the sake of ignorant fans.

[Calis]

Alves looked really impressive last night. I thought he was good but I underestimated him. I thought when Koscheck stepped up to replace Diego he was in trouble. I figured he would be taken down at will, but his defense is much better than I originally thought. Is it good enough to stop GSP's takedowns? I doubt it, but now that fight seems a lot more interesting.

Silva looked to be intentionally dragging that fight out as long as he could. Not sure if he was going to try some explosive finish or if he's just bored in there. It was odd. He was winning the exchanges easily and I believe could've ended it whenever he wanted but was taking his time dancing around. I think he was pretty pissed when it ended because he never got to do whatever the hell he planned to.

Hated to see Werdum lose because I was one griping that he got screwed in this Heavyweight deal because he'd earned a shot a helluva lot more than Lesnar or Mir did. He leaned right into that shot though, pretty brutal.

The Sherk/Griffin fight was fun to watch also. A pretty good show overall for them which was good because last week's was not their best by a longshot.

[Rich1033]

Just finished it a few hours ago. I found the whole show very entertaining. I loved Sherk/Griffin, dos Santos provided a brutal knockout, Alves/Koscheck was good, and Silva is always entertaining. Wish I could have seen a finish to the main event, but hopefully Cote will have a speedy recovery.

[saldana]

i thought it was a decent card, i disagreed with the decision in the sherk/griffin match...even more that it was unanimous.

[AlexB]

I had Sherk winning the 1st round easily, Griffin probably sneaking the last, and the second too tight to call for me. 30-27 surprised me a bit on one of the cards, but I wouldn't have argued with any overall decision in that fight.

The ref with the glasses for the Maynard/Clementi fight was awful - it took two seconds of trying for position before he was 'come on guys, let's move it guys'... I hope he doesn't feature too strongly in the future.

Silva/Cote was bizarre - almost an exhibition match at times. I don't think the end result would have been anything but a Spider win, but Cote has a rock solid chin: a couple of the knees he took were brutal.

[dervack]

I had Sherk winning the 1st round easily, Griffin probably sneaking the last, and the second too tight to call for me. 30-27 surprised me a bit on one of the cards, but I wouldn't have argued with any overall decision in that fight.

The ref with the glasses for the Maynard/Clementi fight was awful - it took two seconds of trying for position before he was 'come on guys, let's move it guys'... I hope he doesn't feature too strongly in the future.

Silva/Cote was bizarre - almost an exhibition match at times. I don't think the end result would have been anything but a Spider win, but Cote has a rock solid chin: a couple of the knees he took were brutal.
I don't think you'll be seeing most of the refs again from Saturday night until the next time the UFC comes to Illinois.

[PilotMan]

I gotta agree with you on the refs. Especially that one. FWIW, the crowd sucked too.

[PilotMan]

Spoilers will follow............................Paulo Filho is a chump. I can't believe how some of the other fights went down.

[DeToxRox]

Yeah that Faber fight was something else.

[Rich1033]

Spoilers, but I assume if you are in here you already know the results.

Well Filho apparently has depression and substance problems, hopefully he can get his life worked out. But yea, that was an odd and disappointing fight.

However, the rest of the card was really entertaining and topped off with a huge upset.

[Matthean]

And Brock KOs Couture...

[EagleFan]

And Brock KOs Couture...

That sucked. If Couture doesn't get caught with that shot he wins the fight as Lesner's tank was almost empty.

[SirFozzie]

From all report, EagleFan, Lesnar was fresh as a daisy, he had spent most of round one leaning against Couture.

[EagleFan]

From all report, EagleFan, Lesnar was fresh as a daisy, he had spent most of round one leaning against Couture.

He was completely winded after round one. He spent most of round one against the cage with Couture pressing against him.

[Matthean]

I didn't see it live, but I was reading on the Sherdog forums and it was universal in the reporting that while Brock won round 1, he was gased and if Randy could hang around the fight was his. I know at least one person made the comment that Brock looked decent to start round 2. Regardless, Brock still hasn't had a fight go long and stamina does seem to be an issue for him. It will be interesting to see somebody stick around with him and make the fight go long. Of course, they have to deal with a 260+ lb. mass that will drain them as well.

[Deattribution]

I didn't see it live, but I was reading on the Sherdog forums and it was universal in the reporting that while Brock won round 1, he was gased and if Randy could hang around the fight was his. I know at least one person made the comment that Brock looked decent to start round 2. Regardless, Brock still hasn't had a fight go long and stamina does seem to be an issue for him. It will be interesting to see somebody stick around with him and make the fight go long. Of course, they have to deal with a 260+ lb. mass that will drain them as well.

He went 3 rounds with Herring with ease.

I don't think he was gassed tonight at all, and to say that he was going to lose if he hadn't got the KO because of his tank is ridiculous IMO. Randy showed nothing that gave the impression he could beat Brock, in fact he was rocked about 3 times before getting knocked out.

[vex]

Lesnar FTW!

[EagleFan]

I didn't see it live, but I was reading on the Sherdog forums and it was universal in the reporting that while Brock won round 1, he was gased and if Randy could hang around the fight was his. I know at least one person made the comment that Brock looked decent to start round 2. Regardless, Brock still hasn't had a fight go long and stamina does seem to be an issue for him. It will be interesting to see somebody stick around with him and make the fight go long. Of course, they have to deal with a 260+ lb. mass that will drain them as well.

The last minute of round one Randy had Lesner up against the cage and was keepin the pressure on him. You cuold see Lesner breathing very heavy and kept checking the clock to see how much longer he needed to hang on. You could see that was Couture's gameplan, to keep him pinned down and wear him out.


On a different note, these couple of undercard matches they have shown after the main event have actually been the best two fights that I have seen tonight.

[B & B]

I agree with Eaglefan.

THought Randy won a close round 1 and Lesner was so gassed that without catching a lucky shot would have no chance to hang in a full 5 round fight.

The Herring fight was dominated from the start and was so one-sided it could have been sparring.

[Calis]

I don't think Lesnar was THAT gassed, but I do think towards the end of round 1 he did look a little winded, or maybe just frustrated.

I didn't think Randy could pull this one off, but was really rooting for him. I think he had a good game plan but got caught which was the obvious danger.

I'm a little more leery of a Lesnar/Nog match-up now because we know how Nog likes to get knocked around before pulling something off, and he's not as young as he used to be so I think we could see him overwhelmed before he can do something. I'll definitely be rooting for him against Mir and then against Lesnar though.

Florian looked very good tonight, I was impressed. I expected him to win but the fashion he did it in was surprising. I don't think he'll give Penn much of a fight, but I still want to see it.

That December card is looking very nice.

[Deattribution]

They just had Lesnar on MMA live on Espn.com. He was pretty classy and humble. He mentioned looking up at the clock, he said he was just looking to his corner and checking the time. (I know he's not going to say yeah I was gassed but still, I don't think that was the case anyway)

[Rich1033]

I didn't see it live, but I was reading on the Sherdog forums and it was universal in the reporting that while Brock won round 1, he was gased and if Randy could hang around the fight was his. I know at least one person made the comment that Brock looked decent to start round 2. Regardless, Brock still hasn't had a fight go long and stamina does seem to be an issue for him. It will be interesting to see somebody stick around with him and make the fight go long. Of course, they have to deal with a 260+ lb. mass that will drain them as well.

Honestly, you are looking at Sherdog and expecting unbiased opinions of a fight? Never going to happen IMO. Lesnar looked good and wasnt gased. He actually paced himself well and was fighting a good fight up to the TKO. I was rooting for Randy, but he took a decent punch and there wasnt much he could do to defend himself when Brock pounced and rained down hammerfists. Thats just one of the problems when you are fighting someone that much bigger than yourself.

[Neon_Chaos]

I find it laughable that people are actually questioning the gas tank of a main-event professional wrestler. You have any idea how ridiculous their conditioning is?

[Calis]

People in phenomenal shape can be gassed very quickly.
It's not a simple matter of conditioning.

That said, the Sherdog crowd really want to discount him however possible so I'd take anything said with a giant salt mine.

[Matthean]

Oh, I picked up on the fact the Sherdog forums were near universal in their praise for Randy. It's like people pick out the fact that he was in the WWE, but ignore the fact that he was like 2nd in the nation as a college wrestler for his weight class.

[EagleFan]

I find it laughable that people are actually questioning the gas tank of a main-event professional wrestler. You have any idea how ridiculous their conditioning is?

lol, because professional wrestling matches aren't FILLED with down time...

[MrDNA]

I liked the undercard matchups. I love watching that giant gorilla Gonzaga and Hazlett is like a freaking rubberman.

[Neon_Chaos]

lol, because professional wrestling matches aren't FILLED with down time...

*shrug*

I'm actually amused by the fact that it's killing all the MMA fanboys that a former WWE pro-wrestler beat Captain America. :)

[JonInMiddleGA]

lol, because professional wrestling matches aren't FILLED with down time...

Actually these days there isn't all that much of it in most matches except on PPV, with the exception of a handful of guys who probably shouldn't be in the ring any more (Kevin Nash, I'm looking at you).

[EagleFan]

Actually these days there isn't all that much of it in most matches except on PPV, with the exception of a handful of guys who probably shouldn't be in the ring any more (Kevin Nash, I'm looking at you).

Haven't seen anything recently but all I remember is a lot of lying around, walking around, etc... As one guy or the other "energizes". Still, 5 minutes of WWE does not equate to 5 minutes of UFC in terms of energy usage.

Anyone who thinks that it is equal is fooling themselves and I find that quite amusing.

[MikeVic]

Glad Lesnar won.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Haven't seen anything recently but all I remember is a lot of lying around, walking around, etc... As one guy or the other "energizes".

With the average match going 10 minutes or less today (as opposed to even complete squashes that could last longer even 15-20 years ago), there's less of that than ever before. Not so much that the pace of the matches has changed as that the pace of the TV product has changed, with shorter matches requiring less time & therefore fewer rest holds.

Anyone who thinks that it is equal is fooling themselves and I find that quite amusing.

FTR, you haven't seen me make any claim of that sort. Just making the point that the conditioning gap is a lot less today than it would have been in the past.

[Deattribution]

Just a heads up for everyone.

WEC 'Torres vs. Tapia' is tonight on the VS network. 8pm est. Following that tonight is the 2 final episodes of the Ultimate Fighter this season on Spiketv, then next week (wed the 10th) is is UFC Fight for the Troops, followed (on the 13th) by the Ultimate Fighter Finale (where the winners from tonight's Ultimate fighter fight for the contract, both on Spiketv.

Andddd then on the 27th is the UFC ppv with Forrest Griffin vs Rashad Evans, Big Nog vs Mir and Wandy vs Rampage.

Great month for MMA. Lots of free MMA and a stacked PPV.

[Flasch186]

great month.

[Dutch]

Does Forrest Griffin stand a chance again Evans? I don't think so. Would be another great win for Griffin though, can't wait!

[thesloppy]

Following that tonight is the 2 final episodes of the Ultimate Fighter this season on Spiketv

Yay for Junie Browning finally getting his ass and his ego handed to him last night.

[Flasch186]

worst part of the night?

When Junie swerved us to say he would fight again. I was hoping for a shot of him working at a Whataburger.

[Travis]

Very disappointed in this season. Not only should Junie have been kicked off at least 3 times, now he gets a televised bout at the finale. I know ratings drive the machine, but come on Dana, you're rewarding a guy that endangered other fighters on numerous occasions, told his coaches he didn't want to fight in the semi's and did nothing but complain about how poorly he was treated/trained/etc as an excuse for his lack of endurance.

I'd have much rather seen a (hopefully) healthy Roop get that televised bout as he at least seems to give a damn. Sure, hopefully some day Junie grows up and can showcase some of this supposed talent that he's carrying around, but I find it hard to believe that'll happen when he keeps getting chances that he doesn't earn (and spits in the face of time after time).

[Rich1033]

FWIW, Junie has actually been training at Extreme Couture since the show finished taping.

Does Forrest Griffin stand a chance again Evans? I don't think so. Would be another great win for Griffin though, can't wait!

Id say he stands much more than a chance.

[Travis]

FWIW, Junie has actually been training at Extreme Couture since the show finished taping.

Even worse actually, disappointing to see a guy so destructive get so many chances when there's got to be a lot of guys lining up just wishing to get one shot.

Either way, certainly not sending out much of a message for future competitors to give their all, accept responsibility for their actions or to act with any level of decency and respect for other fighters.

[Rich1033]

Here (http://mmajunkie.com/news/13248/junie-browning-taking-different-path-after-tuf-experience.mma) is the article about Junie from MMAjunkie.com. I got tired of watching Junie on the show, but if he can put in the dedication and training to become something in the future, I dont have any problem with him. The fact that Xtreme Couture even took him on shows that he must have grown up a bit.

[Travis]

Honestly, if he's changed for the better, great. My problem is that he showed no regard for other fighter's health/safety on multiple occasions, blamed everybody but himself for his issues, lack of conditioning, problems, etc, and yet he still gets chance after chance. The way that article reads it sounds like he's doing well in a very focused environment which is good, but why should a guy that acted the way he did on the show get that sort of reward (both the televised match and getting to be a part of a gym like that)? In the end the guys with natural talent will always get more chances than those that don't, but it's not like the UFC is so hard up for fighters that they need to promote a guy who acted the way he did so soon. Make him work for it rather than repeatedly handing it to him and maybe it'll set a better example not only for him, but those aspiring to be a part of the sport. All they've shown now is that if you have talent you can pretty much do whatever you want in the house and the chances will keep getting handed to you. After the debacle of last season, I really never thought this would be the case.

[Flasch186]

Im taking in a little K-1 tonight on HDNET and they have Kimbo as a guest. He's using his real name and Kimbo as the nick. A quick tidbit:

KIMBO, what do you think of K-1!?

'Well, first I want to see that I love the city of Japan....lots of buildings.'

Same Kimbo, new name.

[Flasch186]

um, HONG MAN CHOI

7'2" 355pounds....no shit.

[Flasch186]

anyone know of a site where I can find a casino in Mobile, AL showing the UFC 92 on Dec. 27th? Ill be there for that night and definitely want to see this card but I cant find a site to show me where it would be showing.

[SirFozzie]

YouTube - UFC Josh Koscheck Vs. Yoshiyuki Yoshida Knock Out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHU_cIGhM_o)

3:40 in. Holy Fucking Shit. BOOM! (pause) BOOM! First shot knocked him out, 2nd shot shuts him down.

[SirFozzie]

Oh, and let me say this. If you are queasy about injuries, DO NOT watch the Cantwell-Al Hassan fight.

That is one of the more gruesome injuries I've seen in MMA

[Toddzilla]

BOOM - Headshot!

[Rich1033]

I think it was more of a Mortal Combat style "Finish him!" from Koscheck.

[dervack]

Oh, and let me say this. If you are queasy about injuries, DO NOT watch the Cantwell-Al Hassan fight.

That is one of the more gruesome injuries I've seen in MMA
Or go to ufc.com and watch the Corey Hill prelim.

Basically, Corey Hill broke his own leg on a leg kick. Trust me, it's not pretty.

[saldana]

Oh, and let me say this. If you are queasy about injuries, DO NOT watch the Cantwell-Al Hassan fight.

That is one of the more gruesome injuries I've seen in MMA

what....no linky?

[SirFozzie]

There's a gif going around on Sherdog. If people want to see it, sure I can post it, but I think I'd be boxed for posting it.. it was that gruesome.