I know the guy is a cancer and he's selfish, but the devil??? Really? C'mon Tony, you're only hanging onto the MNF job because Theismann is making you look good in comparison.

http://aycu25.webshots.com/image/7104/2001831078844107113_fs.jpg

That was absurd and Kornheiser should be fined or fired. Moreover because it was clearly scripted and not just a moment of emotional outburst.

Are you guys serious?

Are you guys new to Tony's stuff?

They're just not very big fans of sarcasm, that's okay though, they'll get used to him.

If that's actually what he said, betcha a quarter he's either suspended or removed from future broadcasts.

Suspended for using the phrase "making a deal with the devil"?

That's a bit of a stretch for the pc police don't you think?

Suspending for using the phrase "making a deal with the devil"?

If that's what he said, then I don't figure anything is coming down. From the initial posts, I expected something more like a direct "he's the devil incarnate" or something.

It would be an incredibly dumb thing if he is reprimanded for that. Besides being sarcastic, he is right. In the world of the NFL, TO seems to fit the character, thats all he was pointing out.

if it was network TV I would say he could get in trouble, but It's espn and Tony is their boy.

That was absurd and Kornheiser should be fined or fired. Moreover because it was clearly scripted and not just a moment of emotional outburst.


fired or fined???

why??? wtf??? :confused::confused::confused:

That was absurd and Kornheiser should be fined or fired. Moreover because it was clearly scripted and not just a moment of emotional outburst.

Absurd is as absurd does.

If that's what he said, then I don't figure anything is coming down. From the initial posts, I expected something more like a direct "he's the devil incarnate" or something.

Well, the whole thing was so I could post the Waterboy's mama..."Foosball is the devil!"

However...I found it inappropriate for Kornheiser to say that Jerry Jones made a deal with the devil (meaning T.O.). He went on for about a minute and referenced dealing with the devil at least twice and alluded to T.O. being the devil incarnate. I think that's going a little overboard and overstatements like this might be okay for PTI but they seem a little out of place for MNF. Then again, isn't that why they offered him the job?

Well, the whole thing was so I could post the Waterboy's mama..."Foosball is the devil!"

However...I found it inappropriate for Kornheiser to say that Jerry Jones made a deal with the devil (meaning T.O.). He went on for about a minute and referenced dealing with the devil at least twice and alluded to T.O. being the devil incarnate. I think that's going a little overboard and overstatements like this might be okay for PTI but they seem a little out of place for MNF. Then again, isn't that why they offered him the job?

I think any punishment against Tony for these comments, from what you're saying (I did not hear them) would be absurd.

I don't care what the guy said, but this is the worst MNF booth that I've seen. Worse than when Miller was there. Far worse.

Hey let's take what everyone says literally! Tony meant that TO is ACTUALLY THE REAL DEVIL!

When you call someone ACTUALLY THE REAL DEVIL then that is SERIOUS BUSINESS!

I don't mind Tirico, but I could do without the other two. Doesn't ruin the game for me, but adds absolutely nothing. All Kornheiser does is slag on Theismann (get in line). He's like the intelligencia version of Paul Maguire. And the celebrity interviews are getting old. Fast.

The unfortunate thing we all have to deal with is that for a "show" (and that's what it is) like MNF, it's all about bringing in as many viewers in as possible. So the booth has to be as much (or more) entertaining as informative. And that doesn't sit well with sports-first fans. The MNF booth situation is a smaller reflection of the bigger issues ESPN has been dealing with for years. That's why none of us enjoy watching Sportscenter anymore, because it's all about entertainment first, not providing sports information.

It's all about the Benjamins.

Fixed.

TO is the devil. You guys got something against the truth?

I didn't watch the game last night.. (MNF has dropped so far off my radar screen..)

Who was the celebrity that just happened to be in the area and just happened to be strolling by the booth and was dragged in?

if it was network TV I would say he could get in trouble, but It's espn and Tony is their boy.

Confession time: I forgot that the show wasn't on the main network anymore.
It being cable, I'd say you're spot on.

At best TO is a minor demon.

I didn't watch the game last night.. (MNF has dropped so far off my radar screen..)

Who was the celebrity that just happened to be in the area and just happened to be strolling by the booth and was dragged in?

Hank Williams Jr.

I'm sorry, I guess I shouldn't have used the term celebrity so loosely.

Hank Williams Jr.

I'm sorry, I guess I shouldn't have used the term celebrity so loosely.

Hank William Jr. or Pink. Hank William Jr. or Pink.

You know it's a very difficult question.

MNF is still on my radar - I mean, it's the NFL and it's on during the week! - but I have to admit that for at least 4 or 5 weeks, I have turned on NBC or ABC looking for the game and been freaked out until I remembered it was on ESPN. Old habits die hard, I guess.

Hank William Jr. or Pink. Hank William Jr. or Pink.

You know it's a very difficult question.

Was Pink there as well? I didn't see that. If it was the first quarter, I was at the gym. Or if it was toward the middle/end of the third quarter or fourth, I was already on to better things.

Was Pink there as well? I didn't see that. If it was the first quarter, I was at the gym. Or if it was toward the middle/end of the third quarter or fourth, I was already on to better things.

No I mean as the theme song performer. Man that Pink is sexy but Hank is pretty cool.

Isn't Pink the transvestite-looking thing from NBC, though? What are they doing promoting her on ESPN? And did she cop to stealing I Hate Myself For Loving You?

EDIT: Nevermind, I see what you're saying. I thought you meant they were both in the booth last night.

Bitch still needs to give some props to Joan Jett, though.

Isn't Pink the transvestite-looking thing from NBC, though? What are they doing promoting her on ESPN? And did she cop to stealing I Hate Myself For Loving You?

LOL, nevermind.

Bitch still needs to give some props to Joan Jett, though.

I've heard this said several times, or something similar, and it confuses me...

Are people upset that she covered Joan Jett, or is there some permissions/props process that Pink did not go through that others do?

To me I just always figured it was your standard cover of a song and that she is making money off doing it like many others have. But some people react like there is something unique about this situation like she just went in, punched Joan Jett's puppy, and snatched the song away.

Are people upset that she covered Joan Jett, or is there some permissions/props process that Pink did not go through that others do?


I think when most bands/singers cover a song, 95% of their fans don't even realize that the song is a cover. (Ok, maybe 95% is a little high but, it is a good portion). I can't remember how many times people 10-12 years younger than me talk about how they like X or Y song and I have to inform them it is a cover.

Given that Joan Jett is old enough to be either the mother or grandmother to Pink and her fans.. I'd imagine they don't even realize the existence of Joan Jett...


Oh.. and I could by Hank Williams, Jr strolling by for Nachos and being pulled in. WTF else does he have to do....

It's not a cover, it's the music with new lyrics. If she (or more likely that awful 4 Non-Blondes chick that writes her music) got permission, included the original songwriter in the credits, and is paying royalties, fine, but if not, fuck her. It wouldn't be the first time someone just ripped off a song and pretended like it was completely new.

Well, the whole thing was so I could post the Waterboy's mama..."Foosball is the devil!"

However...I found it inappropriate for Kornheiser to say that Jerry Jones made a deal with the devil (meaning T.O.). He went on for about a minute and referenced dealing with the devil at least twice and alluded to T.O. being the devil incarnate. I think that's going a little overboard and overstatements like this might be okay for PTI but they seem a little out of place for MNF. Then again, isn't that why they offered him the job?

He meant the cowboys made a deal with the devil to get TO. Meaning TO is bad news and you would have to make a deal with the devil to avoid the mishaps everyone else had with TO. So maybe Jones sold his soul to the devil for TO to perform long enough without mishap for a superbowl, etc.

Personally, I think the devil cheated jones, who knew?

Oh.. and I could by Hank Williams, Jr strolling by for Nachos and being pulled in. WTF else does he have to do....

Are you ready for some nachos?? Monday night.. part-eeee

Personally, I think the devil cheated jones, who knew?

No, Jones cheated the devil, but the devil should have realized that Jones had no soul to sell. So basically, it's a wash.

No, Jones cheated the devil, but the devil should have realized that Jones had no soul to sell. So basically, it's a wash.

Wait, I always thought Jones was the devil. So he cheated himself? I'm impressed. :)

No, Jones cheated the devil, but the devil should have realized that Jones had no soul to sell. So basically, it's a wash.

Holy crap, your right. This is the reason I don't deal with the Devil or Mr. Jones.

Wait, I always thought Jones was the devil. So he cheated himself? I'm impressed. :)

Serves him right!

It's not a cover, it's the music with new lyrics. If she (or more likely that awful 4 Non-Blondes chick that writes her music) got permission, included the original songwriter in the credits, and is paying royalties, fine, but if not, fuck her. It wouldn't be the first time someone just ripped off a song and pretended like it was completely new.

Got it, now I understand.

I honestly don't know the original, so I didn't realize this.

It may be on the up-and-up, I don't know. I just know I was floored when I heard it being passed off as the theme song.

The only reason I'd even give them some leeway to do something like that in the first place is because it's basically a TV theme song. These new acts who are basically taking old songs and, instead of "sampling" them, just taking the entire music track and chorus and adding new lyrics to them, disgust me. This is the same thing, but at least it's not being sold like that Rihanna Tainted Love ripoff is.

It may be on the up-and-up, I don't know. I just know I was floored when I heard it being passed off as the theme song.

The only reason I'd even give them some leeway to do something like that in the first place is because it's basically a TV theme song. These new acts who are basically taking old songs and, instead of "sampling" them, just taking the entire music track and chorus and adding new lyrics to them, disgust me. This is the same thing, but at least it's not being sold like that Rihanna Tainted Love ripoff is.

I'm trying to find how it is mentioned officially, but I can only find articles since it's not released as a single or anything. The articles mention Jett, but that just means the author of the article knows it.

It may be on the up-and-up, I don't know. I just know I was floored when I heard it being passed off as the theme song.

The only reason I'd even give them some leeway to do something like that in the first place is because it's basically a TV theme song. These new acts who are basically taking old songs and, instead of "sampling" them, just taking the entire music track and chorus and adding new lyrics to them, disgust me. This is the same thing, but at least it's not being sold like that Rihanna Tainted Love ripoff is.

Stay off your lawn?

Hey, don't diss Rihanna.

Her melody is different anyway, it's just the music in the background (which doesn't seem to be a direct sampling, fwiw, which is better than a lot of songs).

Hey, don't diss Rihanna.

Her melody is different anyway, it's just the music in the background (which doesn't seem to be a direct sampling, fwiw, which is better than a lot of songs).

I've only heard the song (or parts of it) 2 or 3 times, but I'm fairly certain that it even keeps the chorus from the original and she sings that SOS stuff over the top of it. There's another one out there that I've heard recently, but I can't recall what it is.

Hey, don't diss Rihanna.

Her melody is different anyway, it's just the music in the background (which doesn't seem to be a direct sampling, fwiw, which is better than a lot of songs).

see Vanilla Ice

Stay off your lawn?

Please do.

see Vanilla Ice

No, this is worse, IMO. They take the exact same music and leave the chorus in there. They're basically singing a new verse melody line and lyrics over the old song and incorporating the old chorus into a new chorus that fits the new lyrics. It's like they can't evne bother to do what Vanilla Ice did 15 years ago, which was to just take the bassline, add a note, and write the rest of the song around it. He's a freaking genius compared to these people...

No, this is worse, IMO. They take the exact same music and leave the chorus in there. They're basically singing a new verse melody line and lyrics over the old song and incorporating the old chorus into a new chorus that fits the new lyrics. It's like they can't evne bother to do what Vanilla Ice did 15 years ago, which was to just take the bassline, add a note, and write the rest of the song around it. He's a freaking genius compared to these people...

So what. What are covers then? All the kids always will say "hey you hear that new song by blah,blah...it's awesome!" when grown people know it's a cover of an old song.

Seems like that has gone on for ages. Nowdays I just get a chuckle out of it.

No, this is worse, IMO. They take the exact same music and leave the chorus in there. They're basically singing a new verse melody line and lyrics over the old song and incorporating the old chorus into a new chorus that fits the new lyrics. It's like they can't evne bother to do what Vanilla Ice did 15 years ago, which was to just take the bassline, add a note, and write the rest of the song around it. He's a freaking genius compared to these people...

I like to call it the Puff-Daddy method.

I like to call it the Puff-Daddy method.

It's Diddy, bitch.

Hmm, I've never heard that specifically. I'll have to give it another listen:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70S7pYstGVg

Now, what *does* get my ire are the dinks who feel they have to turn into screaming messes songs like Land of Confusion or Boys of Summer.

Do any of you know anything about the legalities regarding cover songs? Geez, the original artists love it in basically every instance because they either get songwriting credits (which is where ALL the money is) or they get a flat fee up front for the use of it.

A lof of people are losing their minds over something they clearly know absolutely nothing about.

BTW - I just checked and I *DO* know the Joan Jett song. I just have only heard the Pink song once so it just never really registered. I avoid that joke they call Sunday Night Football (besides the game itself) as much as possible.

Or when Mariah Carey covers Bringin' On The Heartbreak.

BTW - I just checked and I *DO* know the Joan Jett song.

I'd hope so, Joan Jett kicks ass. ;)

No, this is worse, IMO. They take the exact same music and leave the chorus in there. They're basically singing a new verse melody line and lyrics over the old song and incorporating the old chorus into a new chorus that fits the new lyrics. It's like they can't evne bother to do what Vanilla Ice did 15 years ago, which was to just take the bassline, add a note, and write the rest of the song around it. He's a freaking genius compared to these people...

It's not the same music, it's a much heavier beat in the Rihanna song, and lets face it, Tainted Love sucked balls in the first place. I would say I prefer SOS by a long shot over the original, and as cuervo pointed out, the melody couldn't be more different.

Or when Mariah Carey covers Bringin' On The Heartbreak.

or "Without You"

Sometimes Kysrup feels he's got to
Run away He's got to
Get away
From the pain that Rhianna drives into the heart of him

Do any of you know anything about the legalities regarding cover songs? Geez, the original artists love it in basically every instance because they either get songwriting credits (which is where ALL the money is) or they get a flat fee up front for the use of it.

A lof of people are losing their minds over something they clearly know absolutely nothing about.

I couldn't care less about the money aspects of it. I wasn't sure if this one was properly credited, but as a rule, I (as a music fan) don't care for the practice. Has nothing to do with whether Joan Jett's accountant thinks the idea is great.

It's not the same music, it's a much heavier beat in the Rihanna song, and lets face it, Tainted Love sucked balls in the first place. I would say I prefer SOS by a long shot over the original, and as cuervo pointed out, the melody couldn't be more different.


"the beat is heavier." LOL! Yep, that makes it a whole new song!

If the melody is so great, write some new music that goes with it.

And btw, these constant database errors are seriously pissing me off. I keep losing posts I've written but can't post. And to make matters worse, we (or I) no longer have the ability to save the text of my posts anymore for some reason, so even when I see a database error coming, I'm unable to save what I wrote. Very frustrating.

BTW, sorry for the threadjack. Let's get back to our unified slamming of TO. :)

Sometimes Kysrup feels he's got to
Run away He's got to
Get away
From the pain that Rhianna drives into the heart of him

Something like that.

The gist of one of the posts I lost is that I don't really mind covers so much. I don't like artists like Alien Ant Farm having to use someone else's hit because they can't write one of their own, or the Bolton's of the world who do nothing more than cover songs for a living, but I enjoy good covers that pay homage to influences.

"the beat is heavier." LOL! Yep, that makes it a whole new song!

If the melody is so great, write some new music that goes with it.

And btw, these constant database errors are seriously pissing me off. I keep losing posts I've written but can't post. And to make matters worse, we (or I) no longer have the ability to save the text of my posts anymore for some reason, so even when I see a database error coming, I'm unable to save what I wrote. Very frustrating.

BTW, sorry for the threadjack. Let's get back to our unified slamming of TO. :)

They really sound nothing alike. Here they are toghether, 30 seconds of each.

http://www.somethingwithanh.com/mp3/tainted_sos.mp3

Just for the record, Soft Cell wasn't the first to perform the song anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tainted_Love

:)

(hmm, I'd like to hear the Marc Bolan version...funny that should pop up considering I just looked for and am listening to Get It On (had also been done by Gloria Jones))

Had no idea that Soft Cell's version was a cover. Now they suck even more to me, and also kind of blows up Kysrup's whole point.

Holy crap, your right. This is the reason I don't deal with the Devil or Mr. Jones.

What about the Devil in Miss Jones?

Of course, that is 70s porn and in 70s porn they have large bushes. Comparing 70s to 2000 porn it's like watching the deforestation of the amazon jungle...

Soft Cell's Tainted Love was a GREAT SONG!

I have a couple of great make-out memories associated very closely with that song and you fuckers better stop criticizing it!!!!!

IT'S ART! ART I TELL YOU!!!!

Soft Cell's Tainted Love was a GREAT SONG!

I have a couple of great make-out memories associated very closely with that song and you fuckers better stop criticizing it!!!!!

IT'S ART! ART I TELL YOU!!!!


that song does not bring teh sexy back

that song does not bring teh sexy back

I respectfully disagree.

Tainted Love made my mojo flow.

Oh, I'm not going to diss Soft Cell, I actually like their version (and the Where Did Our Love Go mix). But I like S.O.S. too.

I respectfully disagree.

Tainted Love made my mojo flow.

you are either incredibly kinky or a real weirdo

in either case I'm excited

Had no idea that Soft Cell's version was a cover. Now they suck even more to me, and also kind of blows up Kysrup's whole point.

I knew it was a cover, but had completely forgotten about it. Still, the underlying point is the same. And actually, it's even worse to borrow from the cover of an original. It's like someone using the Bowie/Jagger version of Dancing in the Streets to create a new song.

They really sound nothing alike. Here they are toghether, 30 seconds of each.

http://www.somethingwithanh.com/mp3/tainted_sos.mp3

:eek: I think I'll just end the discussion here. That was actually worse than I remember hearing in the car last week. How you can say they sound nothing alike is beyond me. The beat is slowed down a trace and is run through a tad bit better production than the original was, I suspect, but it's the same damn thing. It even keeps the pseudo-80s synth sound to it! That's awful.

This is one amazing threadjack - had no idea what I was in for when I saw there were 60+ posts on TO=devil.

I apologized earlier. I need my music discussion fix and this fit the bill.

Ksyrup, wasn't really a complaint - just amused at what had unfolded here.

It happens. I'm more sorry it was an off-topic tangential rant than something completely off the wall and bizarre. I enjoy those kinds of threadjacks.

FWIW - I realized I paid so little attention to Pink's song the one time I heard it, that I didn't even pay attention to the lyrics to notice they were different.. I was too busy wondering wtf it had to do with football having a woman with pink hair singing beforehand.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that:

a) Ksyrup has never listened to Def Leppard's covers album Yeah (http://www.amazon.com/Yeah-Def-Leppard/dp/B000FC2HT0/sr=8-1/qid=1161712823/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-2294882-4863960?ie=UTF8&s=music)that was made in tribute to their 70s music influences

b) If he did, he wouldn't like it.:)

Can you cover Diddy? Is it possible?

I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that:

a) Ksyrup has never listened to Def Leppard's covers album Yeah (http://www.amazon.com/Yeah-Def-Leppard/dp/B000FC2HT0/sr=8-1/qid=1161712823/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-2294882-4863960?ie=UTF8&s=music)that was made in tribute to their 70s music influences

b) If he did, he wouldn't like it.:)

As I mentioned earlier, I don't really have an issue with cover songs. I don't like artists that do nothing but covers, or artists whose first single is a cover, but a band that's been around as long as Def Leppard...I don't mind hearing what they were influenced by. Not at all. One of my favorite albums of all-time is Jason Falkner's double album Everyone Says It's On that has a full disc of covers (including, ironically, a not so great cover of Photograph).

To me, this is completely different. Sampling, IMO, is a bit "fraudulent" (I'm sure there's a better and less incendiary word to use, but oh well) when compared to other forms of songwriting on the continuum.

Can you cover Diddy? Is it possible?


I'm working on a purely original composition based on his song Come With Me.

To me, this is completely different. Sampling, IMO, is a bit "fraudulent" (I'm sure there's a better and less incendiary word to use, but oh well) when compared to other forms of songwriting on the continuum.

I agree, and I share your frustration. I'm not sure what the process is now, but a few years ago I read an article that said that most artists using "sampling" never compensated the producers of the original source of the music. That's just theft, IMO.

I agree, and I share your frustration. I'm not sure what the process is now, but a few years ago I read an article that said that most artists using "sampling" never compensated the producers of the original source of the music. That's just theft, IMO.

"You can't copyright no beats man."

Well, I enjoy hearing the influence anyway, even if it could be acknowledged somewhere that the inspiration was.

Speaking of soundalikes (and I know I've brought it up before), I like the similarities between these two:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3NSncP-hdEg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2VktozqkSc

I mean, this shit is way more honest than what Zeppelin did.

I mean, this shit is way more honest than what Zeppelin did.

I agree in some respects, but that's a hell of a rationalization.

I mean, this shit is way more honest than what Zeppelin did.

Why, because it has been litigated to a point where it is now an established process?

I agree in some respects, but that's a hell of a rationalization.


You used the word continium in your post, which is what made me think along those lines. A legally cleared sample is WORLDS better than simply stealing shit, and a couple of people in this thread don't seem to understand the difference.

Things I've learned from this thread:

Ksyrup is definitely Joan Jett's brother
KWhit enjoys slightly deviant sex, like maybe in public places
The MNF booth still sucks
Puff-Daddy is spelled with a hypen

Things I've learned from this thread:

Ksyrup is definitely Joan Jett's brother
KWhit enjoys slightly deviant sex, like maybe in public places
The MNF booth still sucks
Puff-Daddy is spelled with a hypen

There is no Puff-Daddy. It's Diddy. Diddy!

Probably has a lot to do with the fact that I Love Rock n Roll is the first song on Guitar Hero, and my daughter has been constantly playing that particular song trying to figure out how to play the game.

It's too bad he changed his name, Puff Daddy would have been a GREAT cereal.

I agree, and I share your frustration. I'm not sure what the process is now, but a few years ago I read an article that said that most artists using "sampling" never compensated the producers of the original source of the music. That's just theft, IMO.

Like most copyright issues, the original artists would have to sue to get their compensation. I seem to remember some group like The Verve receiving no money off of one of their big hits because of a bad sample.

What was it that Zeppelin did?

Like most copyright issues, the original artists would have to sue to get their compensation. I seem to remember some group like The Verve receiving no money off of one of their big hits because of a bad sample.

What was it that Zeppelin did?

Yeah, Bittersweet Symphony was a total ripoff and they lost pretty much any profits from it.

LZ ripped off several Willie Dixon songs on LZ I and II, I think it was. He won a large settlement in the 80s and I believe is now properly credited on the albums.

Yeah, Bittersweet Symphony was a total ripoff and they lost pretty much any profits from it.

LZ ripped off several Willie Dixon songs on LZ I and II, I think it was. He won a large settlement in the 80s and I believe is now properly credited on the albums.

I was going to say Willie Dixon got paid and put on the mainstream map due to Zeppelin's covers like "I can't quit you". Best thing that ever happened to him.

Zeppelin also gets accused of taking words or portions of blues staples from other songs. Like references to lemon juice, etc. Musically, nothing of Zeppelins sounds anything like what they are accused of copying. The Willie Dixon examples are legitimate covers as the lyrics are largely the same. So Dixon was definately due some compensation, in my opinion.

Bump (continuing the old threadjack). I heard this on the radio today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2m03fSgWw0

And it reminded me again that it never fails to remind me of this (though more upbeat):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFbDhbl3QPY