Hey, it just came out yesterday and I just picked it up! I haven't started playing it yet, but I'm excited to play the sequal of my favorite game of last year. Oh, and I got the XBox version, while my KOTOR was PC.

ohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanoh
manohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohman.....wait, only on XBox?

ohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohda
mnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamn
damnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamn....

dola

Well that was a disaster of a post.

waiting for the PC version- goddamn Xbox out first.

ohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanoh
manohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohman.....wait, only on XBox?

ohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohda
mnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamn
damnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamn....

I'll have what he's having.

Is it really KOTOR II or is it more of a mod wrapped KOTOR I?

Well so far it seems like more of the same with a new story. However, I think which ever way you turn, your party turns with you. So I'm not sure how interparty conflicts are going to happen.

Is it really KOTOR II or is it more of a mod wrapped KOTOR I?

Everything I read shows it as basically a KOTOR expansion.

No graphic upgrades, gameplay is the same...new story and some new feats.

Haven't played it though, so can't verify.

Any idea when the PC version is coming out? I thought they were aiming for a near simultaneous release.

I am a little worried that the release got bumped up a couple months to make it out for Christmas season. I hope that doesn't mean there will be bug squashing going on for the next couple months.

Drooling over game now.

What's the plot in this one?

*minor spoiler*

The beginning plot is that in the Civil War between the Sith and Jedi the Sith have basically wiped out the Jedi. In their last attack (on the Ebon Hawk it seems), you got away. You are the last Jedi. You can either be good or bad, like in the last one. And it seems your choice of good or evil determines the end of the Civil War. But, of course, I'm hoping for a twist :D.

The beginning (prologue) of the game puts you on the messed up Ebon Hawk as a bot who tries to fix up the ship enough so you can get to the planet nearby to help save your guy.

Oh, and you pick your Jedi class at the beginning of the game. So I imagine when he gets on his feet, he'll be ready to have some Jedi powers :D.

*end minor spoiler*

----

I am a little worried that the release got bumped up a couple months to make it out for Christmas season. I hope that doesn't mean there will be bug squashing going on for the next couple months.

I'd imagine that having the same system would cut down on any bugs. It isn't like they have to test out a totally new system now.

ohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanoh
manohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohmanohman.....wait, only on XBox?

ohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohda
mnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamn
damnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamnohdamn....
Any idea when the PC version is coming out? I thought they were aiming for a near simultaneous release.

I am a little worried that the release got bumped up a couple months to make it out for Christmas season. I hope that doesn't mean there will be bug squashing going on for the next couple months.
Release Date
February 8, 2005

SI

I'm waiting/hoping to get this for Christmas. Hopefully, if any bugs are present they will be squashed by that time.

I read somewhere that there's alot more dialog in this one. Didn't exactly warm my heart.

I'm waiting/hoping to get this for Christmas. Hopefully, if any bugs are present they will be squashed by that time.
Apparently, from the IGN review (for whatever it's worth) this version seems to introduce more noticeable bugs - something to that effect. I just skimmed through the article real quick during lunch.

How could there be more dialog? It felt like half the game in I was talking to someone.

Some new things in this game (based on the manual):

Prestige classes. At a 'pivotal moment' you can attain a new class based on your alignment. Each prestige class has a unique Force Power.

The Presige Classes:
Jedi Weapon Master
Jedi Master
Jedi Watchman
Sith Maurader
Sith Lord
Sith Assassin

There are also different lightsaber forms, which have different bonuses and penalties to certain stats while fighting. Sounds like they took a page from Jade Empires different fighting styles.

Gamespot gave it an 8.5 and also mentioned several "minor" but noticable bugs. Didn't they patch the original on the X-Box? If so, I'm hoping they patch this version in a timely manner.

Gamespot gave it an 8.5 and also mentioned several "minor" but noticable bugs. Didn't they patch the original on the X-Box? If so, I'm hoping they patch this version in a timely manner.
I think it was more along the lines of "content download" - new items and stuff, and a location... :confused:

Actually, I think you are correct. I think it was the PC version (which I had) that was actually patched. The PC version had some stuff that the X-Box version didn't and I think they added that stuff to the X-Box version in a download.

i pisss on the floor.

no i'm not drunk. fuck your mothers.

I've just played it for a few hours. Has the same addictive quality as the first one. I just stopped because I should have gone to bed a half-hour ago!!

I am a StarWars fan and I have a great time with KOTOR I (yes...I had the game last year for Christmas and I still haven't finished it yet !).

I'm taking my time with it, enjoying every aspects of it.

I learned a few weeks ago that KOTOR II was approching its release date so I figured "I'd better hurry a little bit..." so I'm back on my KOTOR I game, stuck on Dantoiine so far...I think I'm a long way from the end but nevermind : I love it.

And if KOTOR II is released in early February as planned, well, I'll take it and it'll wait that I have finished KOTOR I.

The good thing with those PC versions is that patches will be made if there are bugs...they, indeed, released a patch for the first KOTOR because there were some crashes with various ATI graphics boards so I'm not too worried as far as the PC version goes...

Dantoine might be closer to the end than you think Darkiller... :D

Btw, has the big plot twist happened yet ? No spoilers, but I've never been as amazed in a video game.

hmmm....no ;-)

then you've got plenty of time. Enjoy it- Its an absolutely amazing game, and that one twist shocked the hell out of me.

hmmm....no ;-)

dola.
Yeah I figure there is something more than "that" on Dantoine since there is this one location where I cannot enter: a place where Darth Malak is supposed to have gone at some point so there might be some Jedi things down there...also, I fought a Jedi lady (which I killed LOL) down the futaie and I'm stuck around some Mansions in the futaie and I can't find any passes to enter those houses...

Add this to the long list of games I want.

dola.
Yeah I figure there is something more than "that" on Dantoine since there is this one location where I cannot enter: a place where Darth Malak is supposed to have gone at some point so there might be some Jedi things down there...also, I fought a Jedi lady (which I killed LOL) down the futaie and I'm stuck around some Mansions in the futaie and I can't find any passes to enter those houses...

Yeah, you still have a way to go yet.

Don't worry, the part of the game you are playing at the moment (Dantooine) is the most boring IMHO, which just shows how great the game really is!

Yeah, Darkiller, you are still early in the game, IIRC. The other planets are definetly more fun.

KOTOR II is moving good, btw :D. The story is definitely interesting. I'm still in the 'mystery' part where I'm trying to figure out what in the Hell is going on :D.

then you've got plenty of time. Enjoy it- Its an absolutely amazing game, and that one twist shocked the hell out of me.
With you on the twist. Didn't see it coming but I guess I should have.

I got all the way to the end with a jedi, and then discovered I needed one skill that I never got to finish. I started to re-play, but never did. It was a little annoying getting all the way down to that point and finding out I needed something I had no clue that I would.

Yeah, you still have a way to go yet.

Don't worry, the part of the game you are playing at the moment (Dantooine) is the most boring IMHO, which just shows how great the game really is!Yeah Dantooine is pretty close to the beginning. If it took you a year to get there you'll be lucky to finish the game before the end of the decade. :P

I liked Dantooine though. Much more interesting than Manaan.

With you on the twist. Didn't see it coming but I guess I should have.

I got all the way to the end with a jedi, and then discovered I needed one skill that I never got to finish. I started to re-play, but never did. It was a little annoying getting all the way down to that point and finding out I needed something I had no clue that I would.
I saw the twist coming from a mile away. They were dropping hints all over the place.

I, too, got to the end of the game and discovered I had pretty much no chance of winning the final battle. I went and found some online help guides to see what I had to do to win it, and even the cheesy ways were just way too difficult. I gave up then. Could not believe that I got all the way to the end to discover that they cranked the difficulty up about 10X, unless you were fortunate enough to have a particular set of skills (and taking those instead of others may have made the REST of the game more difficult), and even with those skills the difficulty of the end guy is way up compared to the rest of the game.

I felt cheated when I found out what was going on with the ending.

I saw the twist coming from a mile away. They were dropping hints all over the place.

I, too, got to the end of the game and discovered I had pretty much no chance of winning the final battle. I went and found some online help guides to see what I had to do to win it, and even the cheesy ways were just way too difficult. I gave up then. Could not believe that I got all the way to the end to discover that they cranked the difficulty up about 10X, unless you were fortunate enough to have a particular set of skills (and taking those instead of others may have made the REST of the game more difficult), and even with those skills the difficulty of the end guy is way up compared to the rest of the game.

I felt cheated when I found out what was going on with the ending.I'm not sure what skills you needed to have. I just straight up beat the guy. I was a light jedi so I used the standard force speed and shield and any other protective powers I had. Since I had been using force heal all game I had a metric ton of medkits. When I was low on health I'd just pause the game and use a medkit from the inventory (which immediatly uses it instead of waiting for it to get through the queue).

Edit: Oh yeah, I did get my ass kicked the first time I tried since I kept trying to use force heal instead of the medkits.

I beat the game without the trick as well..

I did see the twist coming, but I still thought it was very cool.

I thought the whole fight through hoards of sith part leading up to the end was cool. The only part in the game where you just get to fight and fight.

I'm not sure what skills you needed to have. I just straight up beat the guy. I was a light jedi so I used the standard force speed and shield and any other protective powers I had. Since I had been using force heal all game I had a metric ton of medkits. When I was low on health I'd just pause the game and use a medkit from the inventory (which immediatly uses it instead of waiting for it to get through the queue).
Maybe I didn't have enough medkits. I don't think I lasted more than 60 seconds or so the couple of times I tried. It was completely pathetic, I wasn't anywhere near doing any sort of significant damage to him.

I thought the whole fight through hoards of sith part leading up to the end was cool. The only part in the game where you just get to fight and fight.

Yep. The battle on the Star Forge from beginning to end easily rivalled the best action sequences from the original Trilogy IMO

It was a good ending action sequence, but I loved how they made dialogue such a large part of the game. They perhaps have even more dialogue in the sequal.

I believe I had the most unique experience with KOTR than anyone else around. I got all the way to the big plot "twist." At least I think it was the big twist, and afterwords there is a horrible segment where you have to shoot from the cock pit of the ebon hawk. Well, as soon as I beat the segment the game froze. EVERY FREAKIN TIME. I called gamestop where I bought it and they said that without a receipt(which I somehow lost) they couldn't exchange it, even for the same game. I called the company that made the game and the warranty had expired on the game(90 days I believe). Before I got around to renting and finishing it my X-Box crapped out and I still haven't paid to get it fixed yet. Oh well, one day I will finish it, hopefully sooner rather than later.

I believe I had the most unique experience with KOTR than anyone else around. I got all the way to the big plot "twist." At least I think it was the big twist, and afterwords there is a horrible segment where you have to shoot from the cock pit of the ebon hawk. Well, as soon as I beat the segment the game froze. EVERY FREAKIN TIME. I called gamestop where I bought it and they said that without a receipt(which I somehow lost) they couldn't exchange it, even for the same game. I called the company that made the game and the warranty had expired on the game(90 days I believe). Before I got around to renting and finishing it my X-Box crapped out and I still haven't paid to get it fixed yet. Oh well, one day I will finish it, hopefully sooner rather than later.
I almost had a similar problem during my run-through. I downloaded the new space station level that was supposed to have cool stuff to buy, then took the Ebon Hawk there. Went in, did not discover anything I wanted, and left. When I was walking down the corridor back to the Ebon Hawk, the entire 3D screen went black and stayed black. Luckily I still had the minimap, but it took forever for me to get to the door to the Ebon Hawk and find the stupid little button to open the door and leave the station. I had taken one of the 'droids with me, and he kept getting in the way so I'd select him instead of the button.

I'm just glad I eventually found it and was able to continue without having to go back a ways to my last save point.

While there was a strick to beating the last boss I think any character could beat him. I was a straight up light side fighter/guardian with only enhancement force powers beat him using a combo of force resistance, jedi speed, energy shields, medpacks, and good old-fashioned beat down. I even only had the crappy basic medpacks (and maybe lvl 10 of treat injury) because I'd used up all the life support packs and advanced medpacks on all the battles pre-boss.

It was extremely annoying that the last battle was one-on-one when the rest of the game focused on team strategy though.

My favorite new "feature" in KOTOR2 is that every skill matters now. During dialogue exchanges it seems if your skill is high enough you will see new dialogue branches in certain situations. For example, someone might tell you "they rerouted the encryption codes." If your computer skill is high enough, in addition to the normal dialogue options, you might get an extra option like "[computer]That wouldn't be standard operating procedure, why would they do that?"

I believe I had the most unique experience with KOTR than anyone else around. I got all the way to the big plot "twist." At least I think it was the big twist, and afterwords there is a horrible segment where you have to shoot from the cock pit of the ebon hawk. Well, as soon as I beat the segment the game froze. EVERY FREAKIN TIME. I called gamestop where I bought it and they said that without a receipt(which I somehow lost) they couldn't exchange it, even for the same game. I called the company that made the game and the warranty had expired on the game(90 days I believe). Before I got around to renting and finishing it my X-Box crapped out and I still haven't paid to get it fixed yet. Oh well, one day I will finish it, hopefully sooner rather than later.
Someone does not want you to finish that game.

Just forget you ever heard of the game and move on with your life while you still can.

KOTOR and FOF. Those 2 games are the closest I've ever come to getting divorced. And my wife even bought KOTOR for me for our anniversary last year, so it was her own fault! (She doesn't really buy this argument, unfortunately.)

I'm still holding out hope she picks up KOTOR II for this year's anniversary...but not much hope.

Oh, and I finished KOTOR. I feel so special! :)

My favorite new "feature" in KOTOR2 is that every skill matters now. During dialogue exchanges it seems if your skill is high enough you will see new dialogue branches in certain situations. For example, someone might tell you "they rerouted the encryption codes." If your computer skill is high enough, in addition to the normal dialogue options, you might get an extra option like "[computer]That wouldn't be standard operating procedure, why would they do that?"

Yep, I love that! How many times in RPGs have I said, wait, my character is maxed out in X, he should know that the guy is talking BS! That's a great dialogue feature, IMO. If you know about computers, you should know something about them in dialogue!

Ok, the PC version is out, has anybody picked it up? What do you think?

I know nothing about this game short of what I hear my roommate say when he's playing (XBox version). Are any of the rest of you having problems with random system crashes or "blue screen of death" instances? He seems to be getting them more frequently these days...

/tk

I know nothing about this game short of what I hear my roommate say when he's playing (XBox version). Are any of the rest of you having problems with random system crashes or "blue screen of death" instances? He seems to be getting them more frequently these days...

/tk
My wife bought me the PC version for Valentine's day (along with a few other types of gifts) and I immediately researched it, and apparently both the X-Box and PC Versions have a signficant number of bugs. The PC version is supposed to have a patch out "soon" according to the Obsidian Web Site. Soon is being interperted by board regulars over there to mean the end of the week.. we'll see.

Rumor is that an X-Box patch will eventually be put out as well.

i pisss on the floor.

no i'm not drunk. fuck your mothers.


HAHAHAHAHA...lol

Just order this game yesterday off of ebgames.com

I'll wait for the patch though. Reviews list bugs as the major flaw. The story is supposed to be better.

Just order this game yesterday off of ebgames.com

I'll wait for the patch though. Reviews list bugs as the major flaw. The story is supposed to be better.

I think I'm with you on waiting for the patch. I'm not even going to order it until I hear a good word on the patch.

I've had the PC since release but haven't been able to play it due to my crappy onboard sound. Waiting for my new sound card to arrive so I can start playing.

I've had the PC since release but haven't been able to play it due to my crappy onboard sound. Waiting for my new sound card to arrive so I can start playing.

What was wrong with your old sound? Was it not compatible?

No, it was compatible according to their check system requirements program. Other people reported similar problems but were able to fix it by updated they're drivers. I couldn't do that in my case since I already had the latest drivers and onboard sound really doesn't get looked into. It was either I wait for a patch and hope they fix it or just buy a new sound card. I chose the latter.

My XBox version has gone all the way through 2 & 1/2 times with no problems, but from what I hear thats pretty lucky, there are some bugs even on XBox.

All I will say about the ending is don't get your hopes too up. Its a rushed ending(unless they've changed the PC ending from the XBox). All dark and light side endings had a much more closed dark feel scripted to them, but at the last minute apparently that was abandoned, and instead we are given much more open ended endings with very little meat to them, that feel totally rushed. The Dark Side ending only has a ~5 second cut scene after the final battle...

But besides that, I think this game does perhaps the best job of telling a back story of a player created character than any game in a while. Shame they didn't take an extra month to complete the droid planet thats eluded to by characters in the game and finish the ending. Thats deadlines for ya.

My XBox version has gone all the way through 2 & 1/2 times with no problems, but from what I hear thats pretty lucky, there are some bugs even on XBox.

All I will say about the ending is don't get your hopes too up. Its a rushed ending(unless they've changed the PC ending from the XBox). All dark and light side endings had a much more closed dark feel scripted to them, but at the last minute apparently that was abandoned, and instead we are given much more open ended endings with very little meat to them, that feel totally rushed. The Dark Side ending only has a ~5 second cut scene after the final battle...

But besides that, I think this game does perhaps the best job of telling a back story of a player created character than any game in a while. Shame they didn't take an extra month to complete the droid planet thats eluded to by characters in the game and finish the ending. Thats deadlines for ya.
According to the various fan boards. Several hours of additional storyline were scripted and were even being implemented when deadlines forced them to be cut from the final product :(

There is hope (probably false hope) that they might add this material in a patch (not the first patch.)

Tigercat, take a look at this thread, http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=29764 (not sure if you have to register to read the thread)

It is what Obsidian cut out of the game, supposedly to comply with LucasArts wanting the game out for the XBox by christmas. People on the boards are hoping/protesting/petitioning it gets coded back in for the PC version.

(page 2 of that thread has a more readable version than the first post)

Yea I've gotten the chance to read through a lot of that. Its all a shame, because as it stands KOTORII is a good game, but with a more complete plot that actually flowed better at the end, it could have even been better than KOTORI.

That's the development cycle for you, though. Why LucasArts failed to understand that KOTOR II would have been just as big a sales monster after the holidays as before them astounds me. And why more companies don't realize that putting games out throughout the year (and conditioning gamers to expect them that way) would be better for overall sales astounds me even more.

That's the development cycle for you, though. Why LucasArts failed to understand that KOTOR II would have been just as big a sales monster after the holidays as before them astounds me. And why more companies don't realize that putting games out throughout the year (and conditioning gamers to expect them that way) would be better for overall sales astounds me even more.

Hmm - that does suck. I havent bought KOTOR II for the PC yet- enjoyed the first a lot, and just picked it up on an X-box(my self 3 month late b-day gift :D) - and now Im wondering whether it will be worth it. KOTOR was the first RPG in years I've played, and I guess Im expecting 2 to be as good.

On the larger point, I think the appeal is to the casual gamer SA - they figure mom and dad will buy all the games for Christmas, but not after as easily. In essence, it speaks to the larger trend we see elsewhere of marginalizing your core audience (see ESPN) in favor of trying to reach fringes that may or may not be part of it.

Crap, that's true of more marginal titles, but games whose subject matter have a large following - seasonal sports titles notwithstanding - are generally ALWAYS going to sell well regardless of when you release them.

A Final Fantasy game could come out in July, and it would sell just as well as it would in February. The same is true for the sequel to not just the best Star Wars game in years, but one of the best games on Xbox, period. It would not have mattered when it was released - it would still sell a couple million copies.

"SpongeBob SquarePants," on the other hand...yeah, probably not gonna do as well outside of Christmas.

Still not here in Iceland. I knew I should have pre-ordered.

Okay, KOTOR II crashes about every 3rd load screen for me. I even now plan my stopping of play for the night by saying "I'll play to the next crash." Invariably, its only about 5-10 minutes away, sometimes longer. ALWAYS save before changing 'areas'. Still, the game has been good enough to keep me coming back to it even through all the bugs.

*edit* I am talking about the PC version.

Got my sound card today and can finally play with sound! Problem now is I don't have any time today. :( Although I did play some of the prologue and then when I clicked on the Quit button it crashed. I guess it's not a big issue since I was leaving the game anyway.

I've put a few hours into the game so far and haven't had any problems with crashes (probably just doomed myslf). I like it so far. I like some of the early characters that you encounter, as well as some returning ones.

It'll take a little while until I have a full feel for the game though (splitting time between this and Vampire: Bloodlines (and now add FBCB into that mix).

According to the various fan boards. Several hours of additional storyline were scripted and were even being implemented when deadlines forced them to be cut from the final product :(

There is hope (probably false hope) that they might add this material in a patch (not the first patch.)
Sounds like what allegedly happened with Final Fantasy VII where they left a bunch of the last disc on the cutting room floor and rushed it out. Always made sense to me and explains why the conclusion and most of the plot of FF7 was subpar.

SI

That would be a huge patch, though. Certainly not anything they could offer for Xbox users. Makes me wonder if they'd choose to walk that double-edged sword. Either release it for both (and take a long-assed time doing it), huge file sizes and all, or release it only for PC users and infuriate the Xbox crowd.

Or piss both camps off equally and leave it as-is.

I'm all for infuriating the XBox crowd.

That's wonderful, but while you're infuriating them don't forget that they represent 60-65% of the sales LucasArts is going to see, so if you'd like to see a KOTOR III, it's probably best not to cut off your nose to spite your face.

That's wonderful, but while you're infuriating them don't forget that they represent 60-65% of the sales LucasArts is going to see, so if you'd like to see a KOTOR III, it's probably best not to cut off your nose to spite your face.

I'd like to see where you are getting your numbers... The PC market is much better for any platform now. Consoles have been passed up by the PC platform during the past 2 years.

I'd like to see where you are getting your numbers... The PC market is much better for any platform now. Consoles have been passed up by the PC platform during the past 2 years.

I'd love to see where you are getting your numbers. Just walk into any EB or Gamestop, and you'll see thousandsa of console games, and off in a little bitty corner you might find a handfull of computer games. Computer game sales are dwarfed by console games.

I'd like to see where you are getting your numbers... The PC market is much better for any platform now. Consoles have been passed up by the PC platform during the past 2 years.

Which is why PC shelf space has been steadily shrinking while the space allocated to consoles and handhelds grows, right?

That said, I'm speaking from a domestic standpoint, as I notice you're based in Iceland. Consoles have never been as popular in Europe as they have been in North America - Nintendo had a devil of a time breaking in there in the late '80s and early '90s because of the popularity of the PC - and the Xbox in particular isn't as strong in Europe and Japan as it is in the United States.

That said, if KOTOR II has been released in Europe, then sure, I could see it outselling the Xbox version there, but it's highly unlikely that it would do so in the United States.

And if you think a popular PC game, in general, is going to outsell a popular PS2 game, in general, you're sadly mistaken.

I'm in the USAF, I've only been here a year.

BTW, here are the numbers for 2004 and 2003. Computer software sales actually dropped from 2004 to 2003.


according to the data compiled by the NPD Group, overall U.S. video game console software sales reached $5.2 billion (160.7 million units), computer games sales were $1.1 billion (45 million units), and a record $1.0 billion (42.3 million units) in portable software sales. In terms of total units sold, approximately 248 million computer and video games were sold in 2004 -- nearly two games for every home in America by ESA estimates. (Note: The numbers released by the ESA today do not include sales of game hardware or accessories.) By way of comparison, 2003 figures were: U.S. video game console sales reached $4.9 billion (149 million units), computer games sales were $1.2 billion (52.7 million units), and portable software sales were $903 million (37.4 million units). In terms of total units sold, 239.3 million computer or video games were sold in 2003.

In fairness, HJS, those numbers are slightly skewed, for two reasons:

1) more new PS2/Xbox/GC games in a given year than new PC games. Of course, that has the ring of a self-fulfilling prophecy: if there are more choices, a platform will be more popular, and if a platform is more popular, there will be more choices.

2) the price point for new PC software is generally less than the same game would cost on PS2 or Xbox. MVP 2005, for example, were it to sell equal numbers on the PC in relation to, say, the Xbox version, would have 33% less revenue on PC than on Xbox. Now, granted, that's a far cry from being outsold $5-$1, but it accounts for some of the difference whenever you have cross-platform titles.

But yeah, there's a reason you don't see as many PC games these days - the money is definitely in the console market.

That's also only US sales Homer... I've seen the numbers somewhere when I was in college, if I get time I'll look. The PC platform has improved much more than the console has and the games are better looking and more advanced. This has allowed the PC to take over sometime in the past 2 years.

In fairness, HJS, those numbers are slightly skewed, for two reasons:

1) more new PS2/Xbox/GC games in a given year than new PC games. Of course, that has the ring of a self-fulfilling prophecy: if there are more choices, a platform will be more popular, and if a platform is more popular, there will be more choices.

2) the price point for new PC software is generally less than the same game would cost on PS2 or Xbox. MVP 2005, for example, were it to sell equal numbers on the PC in relation to, say, the Xbox version, would have 33% less revenue on PC than on Xbox. Now, granted, that's a far cry from being outsold $5-$1, but it accounts for some of the difference whenever you have cross-platform titles.

But yeah, there's a reason you don't see as many PC games these days - the money is definitely in the console market.

Those numbers showed the actual units sold, and again the console sales dwarfed the computer sales, which is my point.

That's also only US sales Homer... I've seen the numbers somewhere when I was in college, if I get time I'll look. The PC platform has improved much more than the console has and the games are better looking and more advanced. This has allowed the PC to take over sometime in the past 2 years.

Incorrect. Faster, absolutely. That's the nature of the technology curve. Static platforms like game consoles update in leaps and bounds every 5 years, while the PC is on a steady upward march in terms of technology. When you can swap out a new part, it makes more sense to upgrade on a more frequent basis.

That said...I'd not be surprised to learn that PC games outsell console games in Europe, but on a worldwide basis, that contention would be absolutely false. Better-looking games? Absolutely. Better sales? Not by the hair on your aunt's chin.

That's also only US sales Homer... I've seen the numbers somewhere when I was in college, if I get time I'll look. The PC platform has improved much more than the console has and the games are better looking and more advanced. This has allowed the PC to take over sometime in the past 2 years.

Every stat I'm seeing, console sales world-wide are 2-3x computer software sales, and in Europe console sales are double PC sales. As much as I wish it wasn't true, there is a whole lot more money in console games.

Every stat I'm seeing, console sales world-wide are 2-3x computer software sales, and in Europe console sales are double PC sales. As much as I wish it wasn't true, there is a whole lot more money in console games.
Depends on how you interpret that. True, you can sell the most on consoles. Last year, I think the two biggest games on PC were Half Life 2 and Sims 2 which both tallied between 1 and 2 million copies. GTA: SA and Halo 2 both sold over 5 million copies. Dragon Quest VIII sold over 3.5 million copies in Japan (RPGs are a whole other ballgame over there). That said, it was a rare year that 2 (3, including Japan) big sellers like that came out. The year before, I believe PS2 Madden (*wretch*) was the top seller with over 2 million copies sold since there were no huge megahits.

That said, Rockstar has to pay Sony and Squeenix has to pay Sony to put these games on their system and also has to use their special PS2 discs. Since Bungie got bought out before this generation, Microsoft doesn't pay Microsoft to release Halo 2 but they still have to press it to X-Box DVDs which have a higher production cost than putting any PC game to DVD. So there are higher costs involved with making a console game, too.

SI

according to the data compiled by the NPD Group, overall U.S. video game console software sales reached $5.2 billion (160.7 million units), computer games sales were $1.1 billion (45 million units), and a record $1.0 billion (42.3 million units) in portable software sales. In terms of total units sold, approximately 248 million computer and video games were sold in 2004 -- nearly two games for every home in America by ESA estimates. (Note: The numbers released by the ESA today do not include sales of game hardware or accessories.) By way of comparison, 2003 figures were: U.S. video game console sales reached $4.9 billion (149 million units), computer games sales were $1.2 billion (52.7 million units), and portable software sales were $903 million (37.4 million units). In terms of total units sold, 239.3 million computer or video games were sold in 2003.
I would believe these numbers would not include sales of Half-Life 2 via Steam and games like FOF/OOTP. I would also say that pirating of PC games is more frequent than that of consoles (not that it would make a difference compairing console sales to PC sales but it would make a difference comparing PC sales by year).

Depends on how you interpret that. True, you can sell the most on consoles. Last year, I think the two biggest games on PC were Half Life 2 and Sims 2 which both tallied between 1 and 2 million copies. GTA: SA and Halo 2 both sold over 5 million copies. Dragon Quest VIII sold over 3.5 million copies in Japan (RPGs are a whole other ballgame over there). That said, it was a rare year that 2 (3, including Japan) big sellers like that came out. The year before, I believe PS2 Madden (*wretch*) was the top seller with over 2 million copies sold since there were no huge megahits.

That said, Rockstar has to pay Sony and Squeenix has to pay Sony to put these games on their system and also has to use their special PS2 discs. Since Bungie got bought out before this generation, Microsoft doesn't pay Microsoft to release Halo 2 but they still have to press it to X-Box DVDs which have a higher production cost than putting any PC game to DVD. So there are higher costs involved with making a console game, too.

SI

And as Josh pointed out, console games sell for 20-30% more than PC games to make up for the added cost. Look, those stats showed console games bring in nearly 5x the income of pc software, and sell nearly 4x the number of units. No matter how you slice it, that is MORE MONEY.

I would believe these numbers would not include sales of Half-Life 2 via Steam and games like FOF/OOTP. I would also say that pirating of PC games is more frequent than that of consoles (not that it would make a difference compairing console sales to PC sales but it would make a difference comparing PC sales by year).

I believe those numbers include everything. It is a market analysis. I didn't create them, but it is the reality looked at by the companies making these games. And pirating has zero to do with this discussion.


What in the heck is the arguing about here. PC games sales are a fraction of console sales. That is a fact whether you like it or not (I personally don't, but I don't try to ignore reality).

And as Josh pointed out, console games sell for 20-30% more than PC games to make up for the added cost. Look, those stats showed console games bring in nearly 5x the income of pc software, and sell nearly 4x the number of units. No matter how you slice it, that is MORE MONEY.
Yeesh, switch to decaf. I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, the numbers I posted more than back that up.

Tho, I would question SA's assessment that PC games sell for 20-30% less. I've never paid much attention to PC game costs so I'm not disagreeing- I just don't know. For consoles, unless you're talking about a AAA title, within 6-9 months a high selling game hits the $20 "Greatest Hits" shelf. Is this similar for PC games? Tho there's no greatest hits line, I don't see any big games from last year for sale at $50 these days but do they lose their value that much quicker than console games? I've seen a few PC games sell for over $50 and special editions are more common than with console so I don't think they start lower, but maybe they end up there.

SI

Yeesh, switch to decaf. I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, the numbers I posted more than back that up.

SI

I would say your comment stating "depends on how you interpret that" is disagreeing with how I interpret that. This stuff isn't opinion, it is stark reality.

As for prices, just check out the normal PC release price point versus console price point. PC range from $29 to $50 dollars (most start at the middle point of that range), whereaas consoles pretty consistantly hit $50. Madden for consoles sold new for $50, and $29-$39 for PC.

Yeesh, switch to decaf. I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, the numbers I posted more than back that up.

Tho, I would question SA's assessment that PC games sell for 20-30% less. I've never paid much attention to PC game costs so I'm not disagreeing- I just don't know. For consoles, unless you're talking about a AAA title, within 6-9 months a high selling game hits the $20 "Greatest Hits" shelf. Is this similar for PC games? Tho there's no greatest hits line, I don't see any big games from last year for sale at $50 these days but do they lose their value that much quicker than console games? I've seen a few PC games sell for over $50 and special editions are more common than with console so I don't think they start lower, but maybe they end up there.

SI

Most PC games started at a price point of $39.99. However, I've seen a trend in the past few months of the bigger games being released at $49.99.

As for the question of PC games dropping price, they do. Doom 3 was released at $54.99, you can now get it online for $35-39 and stores like Best Buy would put it on sale for $25-29. Far Cry was release in March/April '04 at $49.99, you can get it now for $20.

As for PC games dropping prices earlier than the console counterpart, this was extremely true for the EA Sports games. EA would release the PC versions at $39.99, with the console version at $49.99. Then in January EA would drop the price on the PC versions (for Madden, Fifa, NHL, NBA) to $19.99 while the console versions stayed. A quick check at eb.com would show the PC version of Madden 05 at $19.99 with the console versions at $29.99 and the console versions dropped price fast this year because of the Sega game being $19.99

Yeesh, switch to decaf. I'm not disagreeing with you. In fact, the numbers I posted more than back that up.

Tho, I would question SA's assessment that PC games sell for 20-30% less. I've never paid much attention to PC game costs so I'm not disagreeing- I just don't know. For consoles, unless you're talking about a AAA title, within 6-9 months a high selling game hits the $20 "Greatest Hits" shelf. Is this similar for PC games? Tho there's no greatest hits line, I don't see any big games from last year for sale at $50 these days but do they lose their value that much quicker than console games? I've seen a few PC games sell for over $50 and special editions are more common than with console so I don't think they start lower, but maybe they end up there.

SI

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that ALL games sell for 30% less. I was using an example of one particular game that does to show that pure revenue isn't a completely reliable metric. Also, I was looking at cross-platform titles, as opposed to games that show up for one or the other. The big titles, such as Doom 3 and Half-Life 2, are absolutely going to both be around $50.

Post from LucasArts support forums about the patch,



Hi all,

We know that everyone has been waiting for some word on when and how we would address some of the issues with the PC version of Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords.

As of Tuesday we have a "patch candidate" in QA for verification. It will take several days to test and verify all the fixes, and to make sure that the patch plays nice with all system configs etc. We hope to release the patch very shortly - check back here for any updates. We're not providing a date for fear that we find another issue that needs to be addressed, and the patch would need to be pushed back. LucasArts and Obsidian are both working diligently to get the patch together and released as soon as possible.

We anticipate the patch being available for all language versions on or around the same day. We also hope to post a patch list that documents the changes that you can look for when installing the patch.

Finally, thanks for your patience, and we hope that you enjoy the game.

Mike Gallo
LucasArts Producer
2-24-05

Good news! I'm waiting for the patch to start playing the game.

I was going to buy this for the xbox during Christmas. Actually, I was hoping that I'd get it as a gift, but wound up with Fable instead - which I've never played.

Didn't even realize the PC version is out...may have to pick this one up if I can find the time during my Warcraft sessions.

Good news! I'm waiting for the patch to start playing the game.
It is indeed good news as I have just started playing and it has now crashed twice and I'm still on the first planet.

Can't wait for a patch now. Didn;t have any trouble until I was about to leave the first planet and it crashes in the same spot each time. I guess I have no chioce but to wait for a patch.

I'm such a liar. I broke down and bought this. So far, after figuring out how to get it loaded, I haven't had any problems. Of course, I just left the first planet. When did your crash occur?

each time I get on the Ebon Hawk.

Do you get to play the turret mini game (When you get on board the Ebon Hawk at Peragus, Atton tells you to man the laser turret and take out the Sith Soldiers) or does it crash before you get to that?

If it crashes before the turret game, you could try entering the Ebon Hawk backwards (face the area opposite the Ebon Hawk entrance and walk backwards). Haven't had that problem (yet) but I've read on the support boards that the method worked for some people.

That's where it crashes. I'll try that out, thanks.

I'm surprised, but I haven't had a major crash. Was able to travel to Telos (?), and even got on the planet surface without a problem. This is surprising mainly because I had a night-mare getting KOTOR I to play, and it never really did very well.

The following was posted by Chris Avellone at Obsidians' board;



The patch is on the way, but still being tested. We won't have a list of all the fixes until it's ready to be downloaded, unfortunately.

I don't have an ETA on it yet, but it shouldn't be too much longer.
and when asked if it was a bug patch or a content patch,

It's a bug fix patch. We haven't heard back from LucasArts on doing a content patch. We asked some time ago, but they've been busy with the Episode III game, so no surprise there.

More info as we get it,

Chris
Well, at least they mentioned trying to get a content patch.<!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_287339--><!-- THE POST -->

Oddly, the backwards thing seemed to work. On to the next planet and have swung from light side to much closer to the dark side (and liking it :D).

Any word on when the patch is coming, my copy is still unopened, collecting dust waiting for this thing.

Any word on when the patch is coming, my copy is still unopened, collecting dust waiting for this thing.
According to Lucas Art's website and Obsidian, it is going to be "soon." Of course, that has been happening for almost 2 months now.

I've speculated to myself quite a bit about this situation, and I have a few perhaps paranoid conspiracy thoughts that I'll share.

It's apparent that Obsidian left many files on the CD that Lucas Arts did not want left on the CD. These files include a significant amount of material that Lucas Arts wanted cut out of the final game, perhaps due to time constraints.

It is also clear from reading the Obsidian boards that they are very frustrated that Lucas Arts keeps finding "one more thing" that has to be fixed before they give the ok to release the patch. Also, it recently was announced that the developer team that was working on KOTOR 3 has left the project. I assume that was Obsidian and their fallout with Lucas Arts has led to this development. Right now, development on KOTOR 3 is officially suspended. My fear is that Lucas Arts will never allow the patch to be released, hopefully, I am wrong.

The other news of note, is that Aurora and a group of fans are developing a mod that will use the files that Obsidian "accidently" left on the CD and this mod will restore most of the cut content including significant more story line in the last quarter of the game.

My copy of this game also remains unopened. My hope is that my intuition is wrong and the patch will eventually be released. Hopefully, the mod will be released sometime shortly thereafter (although they have mentioned no time table yet) and that this will be an excellent RPG to play when the final work is all done.

Dola -

There is plenty of tidbits of information on the Obsidian Entertainment board, and not so much on the Lucas Arts Board. However, there is a significant amount of anger at both parties on both boards.

I guess I'm lucky that I don't get anal about things and pour through endless rants on messageboards, because I was able to finish the game and enjoy it immensly. The ending was a bit rushed, but the journey to get there was fun.

I also never even had one crash. Ever.

Patch is out


LucasArts, a division of Lucasfilm Entertainment Company Ltd.
STAR WARS (R) KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC (R) II -
THE SITH LORDS (TM)
Version 1.0b
March 30, 2005

##############################################################

Thank you for downloading the STAR WARS (R) KNIGHTS OF THE OLD
REPUBLIC (R) II - THE SITH LORDS (TM) Update

This update addresses the following:

------------------------
NEW CONTENT AND FEATURES
------------------------
* Added voice lines for Opo Chano when the PC states they can
repair the protocol droid themselves on Telos (dark side)
* Added support for the Intel i915 chipset

---------------
RESOLVED ISSUES
---------------
* Corrects a crash issue at the beginning of the dialogue after
entering the Harbringer
* Corrects a crash issue when transitioning between B-4D4 to the
main character after Czerka Mainframe quest on Telos (light side)
* Corrects an art issue with NPCs that appear in the mine
foreman's log on Peragus
* Corrects a geometry issue inside the Jekk Jekk Tarr bar on
Nar Shaddaa
* Corrects an issue with ATI Radeon cards being incorrectly
reported in the swinfo.txt
* Corrects an issue with Atton missing from force cage in the
Telos Academy
* Corrects swoop race forfeiting issue. Players can now win races
after forfeiting a race.
* Corrects an issue with the swoop bike getting stuck in air in
the swoop race mini-game
* Corrects stuck issue when reboarding Ebon Hawk on Nar Shaddaa
* Corrects a text/voice mismatch in Kreia's dialogue on Malachor
* Corrects a scripting issue with Batano quest on Telos (light side)
* Corrects a scripting issue with Devaronian conversation on Telos
* Updates a journal entry for "A Hidden Power" quest on Korriban
* Updates a journal entry for the "Fuel Sabotage" bonus mission
on Telos
* Master Vash’s corpse will now yield a lightsaber if you have a
lightsaber when you kill him on Korriban (dark side)
* Khoonda Gun Turrets will no longer appear if you destroy them
on Dantooine (dark side)
* Reduced the repetition of party members' voice lines when
opening doors and containers

------------
KNOWN ISSUES
------------
* If you experience a crash when patching the game in Windows
98 or Windows ME, please make sure that you reboot your
system before attempting to repatch the game.

Installing the game as soon as I finish moving.

I'll be installing this game soon after I get the new computer and get it up and running. Hopefully, this patch has everything running smoothly.

I just finished it using DS, finished it last week using LS.

ARRRGH! This game has the worst endings... EVER.

Damn you LucasArts for rushing the production! It could've been the greatest game ever. Damnit!

I just finished it using DS, finished it last week using LS.

ARRRGH! This game has the worst endings... EVER.

Damn you LucasArts for rushing the production! It could've been the greatest game ever. Damnit!

There is a group of users doing a mod which will restore the endings (as well as some other things.) There is no timetable for that mod to be finished, but I'm going to play it once before the mod is done and at least once after the mod is done.

Someone asked about higher res movies on Obsidian's board and this was the response by John Morgan, Ass. Prod.


The "High Quality movies" are too big for this patch and are going to be put into their own patch which should be up in just a day or two (everything's done, just need to build them).<!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_328599-->

Someone asked about higher res movies on Obsidian's board and this was the response by John Morgan, Ass. Prod.


[/size][/color]<!--IBF.ATTACHMENT_328599-->
Thanks for the info. I'll wait til that patch is out before starting play. Jade Empire will easily keep me busy anyway.

Very fun game.

As others have said the ending was very rushed... I actually thought the storyline in the 2nd one was better than the one in the 1st Knights of the Old Republic... until it reached the end...

blah, I thought the game was a huge letdown. Loved the first one, but the second one was buggy, much easier, and the ending was confusing and unsatisfying. I don't know how it got such good reviews. I bet my Xbox version crashed every half an hour. It was infuriating. No recommendation here.

Just to add on, they also said that they will be releasing the music in a higher quality in the patch with the higher res movies (which should be large since the current size of the movies are over 800 megs).

Just to add on, they also said that they will be releasing the music in a higher quality in the patch with the higher res movies (which should be large since the current size of the movies are over 800 megs).

5 1/2 months later and the media patches have been released.

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_kotor2_downloads.html

BAH. The endings still suck. What's the point?

It was a good game, unfortunately the payoff was just sorely lacking and unfruitful.

5 1/2 months later and the media patches have been released.

http://www.nzone.com/object/nzone_kotor2_downloads.html
Finally. Neon, I'm waiting for the fan based patch now which will restore much of the endings.

I just finished it using DS, finished it last week using LS.

ARRRGH! This game has the worst endings... EVER.

Damn you LucasArts for rushing the production! It could've been the greatest game ever. Damnit!

bump. I played as LS only on the X-box - what is the dark side ending ? And yes, its bloody frustrating. Is there anything I missed out on being LS (other than H instead of M) ? What is the "fate" of your characters ?

Sorry - I need some sort of resolution on that, pathetic as it is.

dola, I loved the "characters" reacting to your alignment, but the story was simply not as good.


SPOILER ALERT















All that goddamn fighting just because you're the "hole" in the force ? WTF ? In the first game, when I found out I was Revan - that pretty much bowled me over- I've never had a game throw that big a surprise at me. Thoughts ?

Hey, Crap? The spoiler doesn't work on the Sideline skin. :D

Anybody interested in sellin' me their copy of KOTOR II? I'd be willing to pay about 15'ish including S/H. We can work something out. PM ME :)

Hey, Crap? The spoiler doesn't work on the Sideline skin. :D

\hehe - I've never used a skin other than the default, so didnt know that. Will edit it.

bump. I played as LS only on the X-box - what is the dark side ending ? And yes, its bloody frustrating. Is there anything I missed out on being LS (other than H instead of M) ? What is the "fate" of your characters ?

Sorry - I need some sort of resolution on that, pathetic as it is.

The DS ending is just the same.

And no, other than Kreya talking about the other characters, there IS no depiction of how they end up.

IT SUCKS, BIG TIME.

I've read the scripts for the proposed endings of the game, and they're wicked nasty, which is why I felt so robbed.

The DS ending is just the same.

And no, other than Kreya talking about the other characters, there IS no depiction of how they end up.

IT SUCKS, BIG TIME.

I've read the scripts for the proposed endings of the game, and they're wicked nasty, which is why I felt so robbed.You know about the restoration project, right?

It is going to use those scripts to actually give us endings to the game which are going to eliminate that cheated feeling. They have an impressive team working on it, and hopefully it will be done within the next few months.

You know about the restoration project, right?

It is going to use those scripts to actually give us endings to the game which are going to eliminate that cheated feeling. They have an impressive team working on it, and hopefully it will be done within the next few months.

For the PC?

I hope they finish it. It would make it worthwhile to play the game all over again.

For the PC?

I hope they finish it. It would make it worthwhile to play the game all over again.Yes, for the PC. I have no doubt that they will finish it. They've (they being a group of fans who have some impressive modding resumes) been working on it for over 6 months and posting regular updates. I have their website linked on my home PC, but will see if I can find it to link here...


Edit: Here is a link to their website: hxxp://www.team-gizka.org/ (http://www.team-gizka.org/)


2nd Edit: Be sure to check out their progress reports which have percentage breakdowns on how far along they are with everything they are working on. This is a very nicely organized group. Oh yeah, they even had casting calls and are adding in new voice work in some parts of the game. They are working on restoring many things that were taken out (not just the endings.)

Yes, for the PC. I have no doubt that they will finish it. They've (they being a group of fans who have some impressive modding resumes) been working on it for over 6 months and posting regular updates. I have their website linked on my home PC, but will see if I can find it to link here...


Edit: Here is a link to their website: hxxp://www.team-gizka.org/ (http://www.team-gizka.org/)


2nd Edit: Be sure to check out their progress reports which have percentage breakdowns on how far along they are with everything they are working on. This is a very nicely organized group. Oh yeah, they even had casting calls and are adding in new voice work in some parts of the game. They are working on restoring many things that were taken out (not just the endings.)

The project looks great.

Seriously, back then, I could have lived with the endings... but when I read the scripts for the proposed endings that weren't finished... boy, I went nuts. The scripts were great and it would have made all the hard work of playing the game worthwhile.

Has anybody tried the newest update on that project?

Has anybody tried the newest update on that project?

I'm waiting for it to be finished and released as a complete mod. It looks like it is getting very close to completion.

I don't think I can wait that long before I play it! Seems to be another month or so away from completion. Perhaps in their next update it'll be finished... they haven't updated since July.

A lot of the bars have gone to 100% and there was a post on the boards that indicated it is about to enter their internal beta testing.. they may test it for a month, but I could see it being out sooner.

The group over at Team Gizka has implemented all of the content! Now, they are just working on stamping out bugs with the restoration project. So far they have fixed over 50% of the reported 660 known issues (including all of the major ones - they break them down into varying degrees of severity on their website.) Hopefully, a complete non-beta version should be done in the next month or two.