It's Madness Time!

Already hate princetons game plan. All you are doing by doubling colston is giving up wide the hell open 3's. Nd is not the team to do that to

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Yet if Princeton was hitting their own 3s, they'd be up 10.

I don't know how long UNCW can keep up forcing the pace but so far so good against UVA.

Indiana kicks off the tourney by firing Tom Crean.

Uva looks beyond lost right now to me

I prove to myself every year that I don't know jack about these teams. Virginia is the one 5 seed I thought couldn't lose. They look turrible.

UNCW is starting to fall in love with the three. They need to remember to go to the basket once in a while.

Taking a lot of bad shots since sprinting to the lead.

Taking a lot of bad shots since sprinting to the lead.

Let Virginia right back into the game.

UNC Wilmington up at most 15, goes into the half down 30-29.

Myles Stephens was almost unstoppable last weekend in the Ivy tournament. Four points so far today and some really bad misses.

Nd hasn't impressed in the game either. Neither team to me looks like they are playing hard

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Am I missing something? Does anyone else see a picture in picture feature on the March Madness site? Didn't they have that in years past?

Can't find it either, spleen.

Gonezaga?

I'm able to open games in multiple windows though. So that works.

Underdogs swear by those uncontested long shots when they should drive and try to get a foul and a tip or something. What a waste.

I don't know, the way ND played D, it's tough to criticize taking a good open look. Though it was a ways out.

Princeton players are supposed to be smart. That shot with 5 seconds left is terrible.

These freakin missed free throws are not helping UNCW!

Princeton players are supposed to be smart. That shot with 5 seconds left is terrible.

Your team pulls down the rebound and you have under 10 seconds with no timeouts to process getting down the floor and taking a shot as the clock winds down. Not exactly an easy time.

Yeah, I think if there's a criticism it's not pushing the ball immediately, but once you're down the court, you take a good look if you have it.

How is chucking a standstill 3 from NBA range off a hurried pass a good look?

How is chucking a standstill 3 from NBA range off a hurried pass a good look?

Hoping for a better look with under 5 seconds to go instead of relying on your leading scorer to take a _standstill_ three is asking for trouble

Gonzaga looks so tight it's ridiculous.

Obligatory brackets reference if they go down so my post can get moved.

It was an open three from a 42% three point shooter. Stephens and Bell are the only two guys on Princeton who have a shot at taking ND off the dribble and ND forced the ball away from Bell. Cannaday was open off the screen. Still pretty sure you have to take that shot.

Obligatory brackets reference if they go down so my post can get moved.

Your post referencing brackets in the context of the tournament can hang out with any post I see fit to make along the same lines.

Anybody that has a problem with that can stay out of the f'n thread.

Watching it again, I did not have a problem with Princeton's last shot. I spent more time watching UNCW-ND but I did not see Princeton going to the basket a great deal. Most of their opportunities at the basket seem to come off of long developing post ups and backdoor cuts. Not enough time to run that sort of play.

Watching northwestern has been fun. I hadn't realized this is there first appearance in forever. Crowd certainly behind them

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A 17 point lead down to 4. Minnesota making a huge run

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Princeton players are supposed to be smart. That shot with 5 seconds left is terrible.

That was the exact same thing I told my buddy.

Way to lose your poise, Little Pitino.

Minnesota blowing their tournament game is the least surprising thing that will happen this year. Minnesota was not a very good team this year, IMO. They were fine.

Combine that with a team returning from last year after winning a game, and it was setup perfectly.

Also, brackets.

Middle Tennessee is a pretty decent squad for a 12, too.

And Pitino sucks as a coach.

I guess in hindsight that was a pretty easy 5/12 to call re: MTSU/MN

Way to lose your poise, Little Pitino.

He did do a good job. I would've punched that fucker.

WTH Vandy?

Oops.

Talk about ill advised 3s from long range...what the hell was that?

Princeton players are supposed to be smart. That shot with 5 seconds left is terrible.

OK, that Vanderbilt shot was terrible.

I spotted a bracket on my son's pile of school stuff this morning -- his AP Chem class is filling them out apparently. Now, I don't know what his methodology was (and I'm not sure he's actually watched an NCAA game in his life), but he had 'Nova winning in the final over...MTSU.

Yeah, that's another WTF shot.

Talk about ill advised 3s from long range...what the hell was that?

A better decision than intentionally fouling UP 1 with 14 seconds left.

How many more fucking times am I going to have to watch a team down 1 or 2 just dribble around and take a deep 3 with under five seconds left? How about drive and kick or drive and draw a foul or drive and make a basket.

The Vandy kid screwed up, but their end of game management in general was problematic, so that's not just on him. (Sorry, stupid commentators talking about it too much.)

How many more fucking times am I going to have to watch a team down 1 or 2 just dribble around and take a deep 3 with under five seconds left? How about drive and kick or drive and draw a foul or drive and make a basket.

Yeah, don't understand how so many teams either don't practice this or every player gives leave of their senses in critical moments.

Is Doug Collins purple?

6/8 so far today with Vandy and Princeton my two missed picks.

How many more fucking times am I going to have to watch a team down 1 or 2 just dribble around and take a deep 3 with under five seconds left? How about drive and kick or drive and draw a foul or drive and make a basket.

How many more days are there left in the tournament?

That stupid shot was head coaches fault. So was that stupid foul. When you freaking call your last time out with 8 mins left to go in a game. Shit like that occurs.

Honestly this year there seems like there have been some major coach screw ups than usual costing kids games

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I will be paying special attention to the number of drive and kicks I see in the night games. I would not expect teams to run those plays at the end of games if it is not something they are doing during the rest of the games. I am guessing there will be much more dribble handoffs or random pull up jumpers a la Steph.

The Mount just held Villanova scoreless for 5 1/2 minutes. Downside, they only scored five points themselves. They need to be up 13-0 at this point. For a 1-16 upset to happen, it will take something extraordinary like that.

Kinda crazy how nova is letting this game be played. Slow and steady. 3:00 left in first half and they still have never lead

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I imagine Villanova wins by 20. I cant see them coming out flat in the 2nd. I bet a butt chewing wakes them up.

Xavier is struggling with this press.

Well until now..

I imagine Villanova wins by 20. I cant see them coming out flat in the 2nd. I bet a butt chewing wakes them up.

Dang. I should be in Vegas betting.

The FGCU-FSU first half was a lot of fun. This might be the game that goes down to the wire and the last play will be a drive to the basket.

The FGCU-FSU first half was a lot of fun. This might be the game that goes down to the wire and the last play will be a drive to the basket.

Neither team is great, but they sure are entertaining.

And that Ojo is one seriously big dude.

On Wisconsin. Should be a good Sweet 16 matchup against Nova Saturday night.. oh, wait, Badgers somehow got an 8 seed not a 5(a 6 imo, but it doesn't work in this scenario to match up with nova in S16:) ). My bad.

Bring it on Nova! Let's go Seniors! You got this!

There are a couple of pretty divergent lines vs. KenPom games today. One is the URI-Creighton game where KP has Creighton by 3 and the lines I've seen have URI -1. I think this is mostly due to Creighton suspension/injuries.

But in the Joe Public loves March Madness favorites category, Duke is -20, but KP shows this as a 15 point game. UNC is -26.5 vs. 23 on KP and Kansas is -23.5 vs. 20 on KP. If you don't mind big dogs, it could be your spot.

If you need a team to root for tonight, why not Dayton?

Dayton inspired by late center Steve McElvene (http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/college/2017/03/16/dayton-inspired-late-center-steve-mcelvene/99275766/)

For Number 5 (https://www.theplayerstribune.com/university-of-dayton-for-steve-mcelvene)

I'm rooting for the Flyers. Which is the kiss of death, of course.

Baylor's uniforms are murdering my phone screen's contrast.

I don't think Baylor understands what defense is. Goodness gracious are they terrible at defending everything

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I feel like Baylor and West Virginia depend so much on having big athletic mismatches, that when we get to the tournament and there aren't teams that are intimidated by them, they don't do as well.

Seeing it again today. Baylor has blocked a few shots, but it's not stopping NMSU from getting in the lane and making shots.

Baylor's athleticism and basketball ability are inversely proportional.

I've now missed 3 games in my bracket by 5 total points.

Don't think the Seton Hall coach drew up a Flagrant 1 plan in that timeout.

Don't think the Seton Hall coach drew up a Flagrant 1 plan in that timeout.

Anything but a two-handed shove there and he's fine. Just dumb.

The USC-SMU game has been pretty insane.

The USC-SMU game has been pretty insane.

Having witnessed it first hand, it was not insane, it was one of the dumbest displays of basketball I have ever witnessed first hand. SMU choked this one badly. They changed their offense in the second half for reasons I will never understand. The right team won the game, the better team lost it.

That SMU loss kinda dinged my bracket a little more than I'd have liked.
Kinda ... annoying to have one that seemed like a done deal suddenly go south.

SMU probably killed my bracket. Had them making an Elite 8 run.

Anything but a two-handed shove there and he's fine. Just dumb.

At least I don't sound like a homer for telling people the same. In football 2 hands in the back is pass interference. I don't care if you think a player flopped or not (while being tripped). In football it makes sense to people, in the NCAA tourney people were even arguing to swallow the whistle on that play.

Scoochie Smith putting on another show in an ncaa game for dayton. He is so fun to watch

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Having witnessed it first hand, it was not insane, it was one of the dumbest displays of basketball I have ever witnessed first hand. SMU choked this one badly. They changed their offense in the second half for reasons I will never understand. The right team won the game, the better team lost it.


To be fair, the reason SMU "changed their offense" was because USC switched to a zone in the second half. Give credit where credit is due.

I hate the Dayton/WSU matchup. Both of these teams should be in the next round.

starting at the 8 min mark there has been questionable call after questionable call going against Dayton. No dog in the fight, just my independent observation.

I hate the Dayton/WSU matchup. Both of these teams should be in the next round.

Committee is terrible about doing these kinds of matchups.

starting at the 8 min mark there has been questionable call after questionable call going against Dayton. No dog in the fight, just my independent observation.

They definitely seemed to be calling expected fouls instead of actual fouls. Alas. Dayton had nobody step up offensively to help Scoochie and couldn't get some key rebounds.

Tough draw, tough game to lose. I thought it was very hard fought though and am trying not to be too disappointed.

Just have to hope we can hold onto Archie now though as the program is at a turning point... Good New class of a lot of players coming in that could all disappear if Archie leaves.

MSU starts off terribly, turnover after turnover and dumb shot after dumb shot. They fell behind 10-0 and in true Izzo style where you shouldn't doubt them in the tourney, have gone on a 35-15 run down to the final minute of half.

Now they look like world beaters.

Okay, that's a not too bad run by SC right here. Dang.

This first round mostly sucked. Capped off with four blowouts Friday night. Suh-weet.

It's was a very good Thursday and an okay Friday. The majority of the blowouts were either late game pulling away situations or matchups of 1/16-4/13. Almost all the 5/12 or closer pairings were good games.

To be fair, the reason SMU "changed their offense" was because USC switched to a zone in the second half. Give credit where credit is due.


Ummm, no. USC played a TON of zone in the first half. And SMU shredded it. My friend and I, along with all of the other people in our section were asking why USC would ever go to a zone it was getting shredded so badly.

Here is what happened:

1st half: USC plays zone. SMU gets the ball to the middle and whips two or three passes around. USC starts moving and losing track of the ball and SMU gets just about whatever shot it wants. Open three? sure. Driving lane? Yup. 15 footer? Got those too. They didn't hit all of these shots, but they were all there, all the time. SMU scored 38 first half points and it should have been more as they missed a ton of open shots. Even so, they were on pace for 70+ points and a lot of that was due to the zone defense.

2nd half: USC plays zone. SMU walks the ball up. They throw the ball around the three point line for 18-22 seconds. (I once counted SIX possessions in a row where this occured) With 8 to 12 seconds left on the shot clock they get into their offense and most of the time still didn't get the ball in the middle. (note: they didn't even try, this wasn't a case of USC changing their zone, it was a case of SMU changing philosophy.) SMU scored 27 points in the second half. At least 8 of those points came on heaves at the end of the shot clock. (2 desperation 3's and a fade away 15 footer with under 2 on the clock)

I give credit where credit is due. USC has a ton of heart and showed it. But SMU simply lost that game. They deserved that loss and the coach and coaching staff should have serious questions asked about it after their total lack of adjustments. I am not a fan of USC or SMU. I didn't give a crap who won that game. I'm telling you as someone who saw it live, SMU choked and choked hard.

I gave my SMU/USC thought above, here are my thoughts on the other games I saw in Tulsa today:

1 - Kansas vs UC Davis. - Um, that score was every bit earned. Kansas destroyed them in every facet of the game. Kansas toyed with them. So ridiculously impressive. (and it pains me to say it, as an OK State fan, I do not like Kansas)

A UC Davis G had one of the dumber T's I've ever seen. He challenges the call on the court. A TV timeout is called and he starts talking to the ref. The ref shows him why he received the foul that was called on him. The player and the ref start walking back toward the huddle when the player says something. BOOM. Instant T. The ref tried to work with you kid. At the time this happened, Kansas was up 2. They went on something like a 20-2 run after the T. Just stupid. UC Davis wasn't winning the game anyway, but this guy did them no favors.

2 - Baylor vs. New Mexico State. Baylor is an uberly athletic team without a brain. USC and Baylor is going to be a fun game on Sunday, but I don't think either team has the chops to go even a game beyond this one.

3 - Michigan State vs. Miami. Miami walks out full of swagger and confidence. They play lights out for about 8 1/2 minutes. Michigan State responds and punches them in the mouth. Miami starts crying and never stops. It was painful. I expected them to come out in the second half and be more aggressive again, instead they looked like they'd rather be back in Miami.

At the end of the game they started pressing the Michigan State guards and forced a ton of turnovers. I mention this because the Kansas backcourt is likely going to carve up Michigan State in a very, very, very brutal way on Sunday.

Need Happ out there if we want to win. No sense in keeping him out too long in a game like this. He can still play the whole game with three fouls if need be.

Maybe they don't need Happ out there but the offense is definitely brutal without some semblance of an inside game... It will hurt us at some point but if they play as good as they are defensively it isn't as important.

Curious what Arles thinks of the Arizona/SMC line opening at only -2.5 in favor of Arizona. The number has pushed all the way up to -4.5 last I checked, but I found that very interesting that Vegas loves SMC as much as they do.

Curious what Arles thinks of the Arizona/SMC line opening at only -2.5 in favor of Arizona. The number has pushed all the way up to -4.5 last I checked, but I found that very interesting that Vegas loves SMC as much as they do.
SMC was very underseeded based on vegas perception and analytics. Arizona based on analytics were only slightly overseeded.. but I think Arizona will will be more than the spread even as a believer in the ratings put forth by Vegas/Kenpom/Sagarin.

Sheep to the slaughter on Zona IMO

Vegas serves up a meatball spread to attract the flies.

I think this game is a real coin flip, you give me +190 on a coin flip then I bet it every time. Win or lose.

Jeez, Koenig is not a guy who fouls and obviously being our best player having him AND Happ on the bench.... Now it may start turning ugly. Gotta get Happ in and then roll the dice soon on Koenig. Won't win without him.

SMC was very underseeded based on vegas perception and analytics. Arizona based on analytics were only slightly overseeded.. but I think Arizona will will be more than the spread even as a believer in the ratings put forth by Vegas/Kenpom/Sagarin.I was surprised how much the analytics disliked Arizona. Would be interested to see if those numbers were much different after Trier came back.

I had Duke as my favorite to make it to the final four and win the tournament. I'm 150% confident they're going to win it all now.

I had Duke as my favorite to make it to the final four and win the tournament. I'm 150% confident they're going to win it all now.
Wisconsin winning increased Duke's odds no doubt.

Curious what Arles thinks of the Arizona/SMC line opening at only -2.5 in favor of Arizona. The number has pushed all the way up to -4.5 last I checked, but I found that very interesting that Vegas loves SMC as much as they do.
I think St. Mary's is a good team - I just didn't think they should be rated 6 spots ahead of Arizona in the KenPom ratings. The fact that they are a 4-4.5 favorite seems about right. It's a game either team can win, but Vegas set the line a little low to start.

Northwestern was down 20 and according to 538 had a less than 1% chance to come back and win.....Now it's a 5 pt game and 5 minutes left and the crowd is extremely rowdy after a bogus call that resulted in a Technical.... since then, all Northwestern. Weeeee.

Yeah, I turned on the TV right when this run started, pretty impressive.

WOW....

Northwestern just got jobbed, should be a 3 point game instead a technical and a 7 pt lead.. WOW...

The Gonzaga defender put his hand through the hoop to block the shot and uh.... yeah, Collins flies out onto the floor and got the Technical. Not sure the ref knew that's what he was pissed about though, may have let is slide, might have thought he was begging for a foul

Please hold on, Gonzaga. I'm sick of all the shots of Doug Collins and now this kid with braces.

That kid is never going to live this down.

After that ref jobbing I'm more than ready to see somebody put an end to the overrated & overhyped Gonzaga deal.

Jackée Harry's favorite school is going to beat Arizona tonight.

I doubt it

After that ref jobbing I'm more than ready to see somebody put an end to the overrated & overhyped Gonzaga deal.

Hey look it's Louisville-in-football-season part II!!

I'm notoriously terrible at predicting this stuff. I was quite good actually in high school, and sometime a few years later I lost whatever it is I had or the sporting world changed or whatever. Having said that, my two cents is that I agree that there is no real favorite, clear or otherwhise, this year. There might be ten teams that could win the title. Put a gun to my head and I'd pick Kentucky; Duke is good enough but they haven't sold me that they aren't going to distintegrate.

How many teams do you think are clearly better than Gonzaga? I'm not hugely impressed with them but they have done quite well relative to the rest and I definitely think they have to be on the short list. I can't name many that I would put above them so I don't really consider them to be overranked. Biggest this year I see is everyone is vulnerable, even moreso than usual. No great teams.

This has not been a good day for the refs.

The missed push from Arizona probably cost St. Mary's the game.

They were down by 5 with 1:25 left when it happened. I don't think it cost them the game, they would have still needed a 5-0 run to tie. Still, I agree this wasn't a good day for the refs.

Good win for Arizona though. Interesting that they face Xavier in the Sweet 16 (Sean Miller's old team).

The Refs were terrible in the 2nd half of the Arizona/St Marys game. Very physical game and Arizona gets called for 3-4 fouls in the entire 2nd half? Markkanen better get out of town quickly before he gets arrested for assault on Landale.

St. Mary's wasn't as aggressive to the basket as Arizona. Arizona was the faster team and played that way on offense. St Mary's settled for a lot of jumpers in the 2nd half and you don't get a lot of fouls called that way. What hurt St Mary's was going 5-21 from 3 while AZ drove to the basket and only shot 11 3s.

St. Mary's wasn't as aggressive to the basket as Arizona. Arizona was the faster team and played that way on offense. St Mary's settled for a lot of jumpers in the 2nd half and you don't get a lot of fouls called that way. What hurt St Mary's was going 5-21 from 3 while AZ drove to the basket and only shot 11 3s.

They were pounding it inside to Landale 75 percent of the 2nd half. The calls that Markkenan was getting Landale was not. And a lot of them 3 attempts were late in the game when they were trying to catch up.

Why is Ted Valentine even allowed inside an Arena this time of year?

That was a super game. Nice comeback by ISU when it looked completely over.

St Mary's had 8 more fouls for the game a few were intentional ones in the final minute. Is it unreasonable for St Mary's to have 5-6 more fouls for the game given the three point discrepancy (+10 3s for SMU) and Arizona's more aggressive driving offense? I think the refs missed a couple calls, but I don't think the overall foul numbers are that off given the style of both offenses in the 2nd half. Arizona had 6 shots outside of the elbow in the 2nd half. St. Mary's had 15. Arizona was just more agggressive to the basket.

I dont think foul discrepancy is a good way to determine referee bias.

That was a super game. Nice comeback by ISU when it looked completely over.

PURDUE back to the Sweet 16! Nice comeback but not enough.

Having said that, my two cents is that I agree that there is no real favorite, clear or otherwhise, this year.

On this we largely agree. There's not a single #1 seed in my final four picks.
There's at least 6, probably 8-10 teams that wouldn't shock me by winning it all.

How many teams do you think are clearly better than Gonzaga? I'm not hugely impressed with them but they have done quite well relative to the rest

When you're carrying an SOS that's 124th (Kenpom), 118th (Sagarin), or 102nd (RPI) it's a lot easier to do "quite well". There's less wear on their tires than most teams in the field and that increases their chances to succeed on these short turnarounds. Yet but for inexcusably poor officiating today they might well have been exposed before the first weekend was done.

Clearly better? It's a relatively lackluster field so an exact number is tougher than it would be normally. But I don't believe they warrant anything above a three seed all things considered.

Hey look it's Louisville-in-football-season part II!!

Incidentally, that was borne out rather well I'd say.

I'm just hoping the same holds true here as well.

So...who intentionally tries to run their team plane off the runway next year to reenact what Michigan is doing?

I dont think foul discrepancy is a good way to determine referee bias.

I can't find it now, but there's a rating system for all NCAA referees that's posted online. Shows their bias in campus and neutral court games.

Hate seeing schools like Wichita St. getting absolutely screwed by the committee. This game should be for advancing to the Elite 8 or Final 4 yet it is just to get to the second weekend.

Quite the seeding job in the sense of getting the $ teams they wanted to see, but shortsighted by the NCAA though no surprise.

bummer, great defense by Ky at the end though.

Hopefully they will avoid the St Mary's/Wichita issues going forward with using analytics/vegas additions to the seeding...

Please let this ARK-UNC gamw come down to Roy drawing up a last second play.

When did Chris Webber become a decent announcer?

Wasn't that a travel? If it wasn't a charge or block it had to be a travel.

You have to call either travel or charge there. Gutless job by the refs.

block or a travel yeah, i don't see how you no call that.

Sucks when the refs end up being part of the story at the end of the game.

You have to call either travel or charge there. Gutless job by the refs.

And on top of the air ball/obviously blocked shot they gave to UNC the play before. They're giving this one to Carolina.

Arkansas also missed two key free throws, they were also scoreless for the last 3 minutes, they also dribbled the ball around 20+ seconds before heaving up a shot.

The ironic part about this game is that the refs helped Arkansas immensely against Seton Hall.

dola

8 minutes in and the refs already has South Carolina in foul trouble against Duke lol. I want to see Duke win an important game where they don't have the free throw advantage Jesus Christ.

8 minutes in and the refs already has South Carolina in foul trouble against Duke

fwiw, South Carolina was 297th in the country in personal fouls per game (as in, among the worst in the nation), averaging 20.5 per game.

Arkansas also missed two key free throws, they were also scoreless for the last 3 minutes, they also dribbled the ball around 20+ seconds before heaving up a shot.

The ironic part about this game is that the refs helped Arkansas immensely against Seton Hall.

It looked like every other Mike Anderson team in a key spot in a tournament format. We saw it for a few years at Mizzou. It's fun to watch, but provides way too many chances for players to screw it up in clutch moments.

dola

8 minutes in and the refs already has South Carolina in foul trouble against Duke lol. I want to see Duke win an important game where they don't have the free throw advantage Jesus Christ.

Hey look! Duke whining. That's new.

It looked like every other Mike Anderson team in a key spot in a tournament format. We saw it for a few years at Mizzou. It's fun to watch, but provides way too many chances for players to screw it up in clutch moments.

I'm not even sure it was that. Too many guards were cramping or having hamstring problems in the game. I don't think they had enough left after wasting everything from 17 down to taking the 5 point lead. 35 mins of hell was pretty entertaining though and hopefully the next 2 classes are as good as advertised.

You know who's a great coach? That Kim Anderson.

Duke's last 11 points came from guess where? You got it! The free throw line.

Has Coach K ever recruited someone who isn't a whiny douchebag?

Forget a 96-team bracket or whatever, just make the whole damn thing double elimination after the 1st round.

I fucking swear the last month watching Duke play. All of their close games the last minute takes like half an hour.

So I'm about to be 0-4 in the East bracket. But can't imagine too many people sent teams besides Nova/Duke to the Final Four ....

South Carolina had 23 points in the first half followed up with 65 points in the second half.

Hell of a showing by the ACC.

Lonzo Ball show

Yet but for inexcusably poor officiating today they might well have been exposed before the first weekend was done.

You may well be right about Gonzaga, but I'll just say that there are only 2-3 teams that didn't have a real close call. Obviously at least a few Final Four contenders already gone. Almost everyone left has a chance at some level IMO.

Hell of a showing by the ACC.

Yea Lunardi, Ken Pom, all the pundits sure had that conference pegged!

https://thekicker.com/tough-but-fair-coach-k-suspends-grayson-allen-for-rest-of-tourney/

After losing Villanova, it was nice to see Duke lose. My impressions on this weekend were that Wichita St and Wisconsin were under seeded. Wisconsin should have been a 4-5 and Wichita should have been a 5-6.

Yea Lunardi, Ken Pom, all the pundits sure had that conference pegged!

KenPom had ND, Miami, WF, Virginia, and Virginia Tech losing to better teams. It also had Duke and FSU over seeded while SC and Xavier underseeded.

KenPom had ND, Miami, WF, Virginia, and Virginia Tech losing to better teams. It also had Duke and FSU over seeded while SC and Xavier underseeded.

I might be overly harsh on Ken Pom, but my point is that the media overhyping if the ACC was absolutely ridiculous and the way this tourney has gone really exposes that fact.

And underhyping the B1G

And underhyping the B1G

I don't think you can really say that the big ten was underhyped by the media when the selection committee wasn't exactly in love with the conference either.

They could both be graded wrong on some counts and that's fair/fine. I just don't think it's a bus the media can be singled out to get thrown under if that makes sense.

KenPom had ND, Miami, WF, Virginia, and Virginia Tech losing to better teams. It also had Duke and FSU over seeded while SC and Xavier underseeded.
That doesn't match the pre-tourney ratings. KenPom had Miami (32) better than Michigan St (43) and Virginia (7) better than Florida (9). KenPom also had Xavier at 40 (10 seed, not far off their 11) and SC at 32 (7-seed, where they were). Let's also not forget that KenPom had St. Mary's rated 6 spots above Arizona. KenPom seemed to be high on small conference teams that beat crap teams by 20-25 (Wichita State at 8, SMU at 11 and St. Mary's at 14), extremely high on the ACC - while down on the Big 10 and Pac 12. I still don't get how Arizona goes 30-4 against a top 60 SOS and they are rated well behind a St. Mary's team that goes 30-4 against the 140 SOS (270th Nonconf SOS). His ratings just seem way too dependent upon margin of victory for my taste and putting all these ACC teams in the top 10-15 at the start.

And this isn't a KenPom only issue, but when you are as high as all the CPU ratings were on the ACC teams going into the season - all those conference teams get propped up. I mean a 17-15 Clemson team was rated 35th in KemPom - and they lost to Oakland by 5 in the NIT. When you have so many conference teams rated so high (without even that tough of a nonconf SOS), it stacks the deck for that conference. Then, every conference game helps you immensely, even if you lose. Clemson (35 in KenPom) went 6-12 in conference play and got beaten by both Xavier (40) and Oklahoma (65) on neutral courts. How Clemson was rated higher than Xavier when the Tourney started is beyond me. Xavier played a significantly higher Non Conf (#38 compared to Clemson's 100), had a similar overall SOS, had a much better record and beat Clemson on a neutral floor. Yet, Clemson would have gotten a better seed in a KenPom tourney.

I don't think you can really say that the big ten was underhyped by the media when the selection committee wasn't exactly in love with the conference either.

They could both be graded wrong on some counts and that's fair/fine. I just don't think it's a bus the media can be singled out to get thrown under if that makes sense.
The problem is when you make the determination that the Big 10 is OK and ACC is great going into the season, that colors all the metrics used by the selection committee. Florida State won a home game against Florida and lost a neutral game to Temple, but had a crap overall nonconference (around #270). But, they lose 9 games and still get a 3 seed. Virginia's best non-conf win was Cal, have 7 conf losses (10 overall) and they get a 5 seed. KenPom has them 7th overall - better than Florida, Kansas, Arizona, UCLA and Oregon. The preconceived notion on the Big Ten, ACC and Pac-12 going into the season greatly shaped their final rankings and seeds.

CBI Quarterfinals

Wyoming playing UMKC at home.

Loyola Marymount v. Coastal Carolina
UIC v. GW
Rice v. Utah Valley

Seems like, in theory, Wyoming could win the thing if they keep playing hot (and at home, frankly.) And yes, they'd probably raise a CBI banner. Been a long time since that national championship in the 40s.

The problem is when you make the determination that the Big 10 is OK and ACC is great going into the season, that colors all the metrics used by the selection committee. Florida State won a home game against Florida and lost a neutral game to Temple, but had a crap overall nonconference (around #270). But, they lose 9 games and still get a 3 seed. Virginia's best non-conf win was Cal, have 7 conf losses (10 overall) and they get a 5 seed. KenPom has them 7th overall - better than Florida, Kansas, Arizona, UCLA and Oregon. The preconceived notion on the Big Ten, ACC and Pac-12 going into the season greatly shaped their final rankings and seeds.

This is nonsense from a metrics perspective.

From a perception perspective it obviously holds some truth, but polls are much worse about that than computer metrics.

This is nonsense from a metrics perspective.

From a perception perspective it obviously holds some truth, but polls are much worse about that than computer metrics.

This.

And thanks for saving me the time to say the same basic thing.

NIT presents a helluva conundrum for my kid.

It's Georgia Tech at Ole Miss on Tuesday ... half his sports heritage vs his current location.

Working plan is that he's just going to avoid the game at all.

His 2nd option was to wear a GT jersey under his Ole Miss jersey & then, depending upon the outcome, whip off the first jersey & turn heel.

Iowa shot 42% from the FT lline and lost to TCU in OT. Bad game for the Hawks. I cannot wait until next year.

CBI Quarterfinals

Wyoming playing UMKC at home.

Loyola Marymount v. Coastal Carolina
UIC v. GW
Rice v. Utah Valley

Seems like, in theory, Wyoming could win the thing if they keep playing hot (and at home, frankly.) And yes, they'd probably raise a CBI banner. Been a long time since that national championship in the 40s.

One correction-It's Loyola, MD not Marymount vs Coastal. Well two corrections, Coastal is going to win the tourney, not Wyoming :)

This is nonsense from a metrics perspective.

From a perception perspective it obviously holds some truth, but polls are much worse about that than computer metrics.
The problem is "polls" and subjective opinions dictate the seeding process. The ACC is great, the Big 10 is average. There is no CPU ranking that determines who is a 2 seed and who is a 5 seed, it's all subjective. Then, you have even more craziness in awarding Minnesota a 5 and Wisconsin an 8 seed. There isn't one CPU ranking that has Minnesota above Wisconsin, yet they are seeded 3 spots higher? Here's a composite listing of all the ranking systems going into the tourney:

College Basketball Ranking Composite (http://www.mratings.com/cb/compare.htm)

Look at these and explain the Wisconsin-Minnesota decision. Or why Maryland is a higher seed than Michigan. And these are simple decisions within a conference, now try to justify Florida State being seeded higher than Purdue. The seeding process is what needs to be changed first and foremost.

My second issue is the logic behind these CPU rankings. It's all the same data, yet the results are extremely far off. Look at Virginia, they range from 3rd overall to 36th. Arizona is from 2nd to 25th. And that's not looking at the smaller school teams like Wichita (range from 3 to 47) or St Mary's (4 to 31). The standard deviations on some of these teams are as high as 7-10 for top 30 teams. There's no transparency here. Outside of the RPI (extremely flawed), we have no idea how KenPom, BPI, TeamRankings, Massey, etc are calculated. Then, you have people using these rankings (that they really don't even understand) to justify or argue against arbitrary seeding decisions. I feel that KenPom values high margin wins against crap teams a lot higher than Massey or Pugh (who tend to penalize losses more). There are people who cite KenPom leading up to the tournament as if it was the word of Jesus in college basketball - yet they have no idea what methodology is used in its conclusions.

At some point, we need to get to a point where we agree on some overall parameters within a ranking system and explain that to coaches/players. Hey, beating the 240th team by 25 isn't as good as beating the 75th team by 8 - so keep that in mind. Ratings like KenPom, BPI and TeamRankings are intended to be "predictive" ratings - not to fairly reward teams for their season with a tournament seed.

I don't think you can really say that the big ten was underhyped by the media when the selection committee wasn't exactly in love with the conference either.

My initial observation to this is if the Big Ten had lost a #2/#2/#3 seed yesterday and had 1 of 9 teams in the Sweet 16 that ESPN would annihilate the conference in just about every write-up on their site. Suffice it to say, I'm not seeing that reaction today. There were some pot shots taken at the ACC on Twitter, but that is about the extent of what I've seen over the last 24 hours.

In terms of the rankings, I'm glad that KenPom does factor in margin of victory as part of their score. I understand that there are positives/negatives to doing so, but I believe ignoring final scores results in weaker data. As far as the "proper weighting" of margin of victory, especially relative to difference in Top 50 vs Top 150 vs Top 300 foe, I would suggest that there is likely room for intelligent people to disagree and potentially fine tune the formulas.

At some point, we need to get to a point where we agree on some overall parameters within a ranking system

And the BCS went heavily computer and everybody hated that too.

The problem here, frankly, is that there is no consensus stronger than the one that keeps a human element involved in the process. And that means someone always perceives their ox as being gored.

Well was not easy and had to come back from several down a couple times, but in the end the good guys prevailed 72-63 :) Not sure who they will play next, but likely will be a long road trip.

CBI Quarterfinals

Wyoming playing UMKC at home.

Loyola Marymount v. Coastal Carolina
UIC v. GW
Rice v. Utah Valley

Seems like, in theory, Wyoming could win the thing if they keep playing hot (and at home, frankly.) And yes, they'd probably raise a CBI banner. Been a long time since that national championship in the 40s.

Utah Valley and UIC also won their games. Wyoming leads by 6 at the half, was up by a lot more at one point. Also its been announced UIC and Coastal will meet in one semi-final with Coastal getting its third home game.

The problem is "polls" and subjective opinions dictate the seeding process. The ACC is great, the Big 10 is average. There is no CPU ranking that determines who is a 2 seed and who is a 5 seed, it's all subjective. Then, you have even more craziness in awarding Minnesota a 5 and Wisconsin an 8 seed. There isn't one CPU ranking that has Minnesota above Wisconsin, yet they are seeded 3 spots higher?Obviously Wisconsin was seeded 3 lines below Minnesota because of bias against the Big 10. Err, wait, for the Big 10.

Or, alternatively, the committee is just bad at its job and there isn't a grand conspiracy at play (though I do think they are a little biased at times against good mid-majors.)

Or, alternatively, the committee is just bad at its job and there isn't a grand conspiracy at play (though I do think they are a little biased at times against good mid-majors.)


Also, we dramatically overvalue the results of a very small number of games and make sweeping overreaching conclusions based on them. We do this every year, despite acknowledging at the same time that the NCAA tournament isn't really the best setup to determine the "best team" but it does crown a champion in a very fun way so that's ok.

Utah Valley and UIC also won their games. Wyoming leads by 6 at the half, was up by a lot more at one point. Also its been announced UIC and Coastal will meet in one semi-final with Coastal getting its third home game.

Wyoming wins, will host Utah Valley in the other semi. Pokes are 16-3 at home this year, apparently. This one will have higher stakes than the others though.

Also, we dramatically overvalue the results of a very small number of games and make sweeping overreaching conclusions based on them. We do this every year, despite acknowledging at the same time that the NCAA tournament isn't really the best setup to determine the "best team" but it does crown a champion in a very fun way so that's ok.

Only one of nine teams reached the Sweet 16 for the ACC, most losing in upsets (by seed). While I agree with you that the NCAA tourney results aren't necessarily the ideal conditions upon which to judge a team or conference's quality or lack thereof, they are also not just nothing results to sweep under the carpet--and especially these results, which are so extreme.

Eight of nine out by the second round isn't terrible. It's TERRIBLE.

Obviously Wisconsin was seeded 3 lines below Minnesota because of bias against the Big 10. Err, wait, for the Big 10.

Or, alternatively, the committee is just bad at its job and there isn't a grand conspiracy at play (though I do think they are a little biased at times against good mid-majors.)
This was my point. They can't even get apples to apples right (same conference), so it's not a surprise they are a disaster when it comes to cross conference comparisons. But, it's always been this way and next year won't be any different.

Coastal Carolina did not have much problem with UIC and wins 89-78. Utah Valley and Wyoming about to start. Would be pretty crazy for Coastal to win two national tournaments in the course of a year.

Wyoming hangs on and beats Utah Valley, so the finals of the CBI are all set. It's a Best of 3 so Coastal will finally have to play on the road.

Wyoming hangs on and beats Utah Valley, so the finals of the CBI are all set. It's a Best of 3 so Coastal will finally have to play on the road.

Woo!

Coastal Carolina did not have much problem with UIC and wins 89-78. Utah Valley and Wyoming about to start. Would be pretty crazy for Coastal to win two national tournaments in the course of a year.

What was the other one?

Baseball, though this national title isn't quite the same as baseball

Woo!



What was the other one?

Look at my sig :)

No team is more overrated in more NCAA tournaments than Duke - The Washington Post (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/03/20/no-team-is-more-overrated-in-more-ncaa-tournaments-than-duke/)

The data has to be way worse on a percentage basis from 1995 to the present. Duke was pretty ridiculous from 1986-1994.

Oregon/Michigan played some great basketball. West Virginia/Gonzaga evening it out with some horribly sloppy play.

Iowa women beat Colorado 80-62 to move on to the elite 8 of the WNIT. They host the next round Sunday.

End game logic by WVU was wretched ... take the quick two!

Iowa women beat Colorado 80-62 to move on to the elite 8 of the WNIT. They host the next round Sunday.

https://media.makeameme.org/created/wow-thanks-i-25ty9z.jpg

Purdue played a good 25 minutes tonight.

Didn't realize Quinnipiac made the Sweet 16 in the women's NCAA tournament as a 12-seed. There is some parity outside of the UConn streak, as it turns out.

Arizona is approaching Dukeish levels of flopping

End game logic by WVU was wretched ... take the quick two!Between that & to a lesser extent Arizona's lethargy down 2 with 15 seconds left not a great night for teams I had going to the Final 4 & clock management! :lol:

Xavier is not the mid major I expected to be here.

My bracket sucks this year.

Arizona is approaching Dukeish levels of flopping
It was really a frustrating game. Arizona had more size, quickness and talent - yet shot 27 3s :rolleyes:

Even as poorly as they played on offense, they were up 8 with 5 min left and just went brain-dead on offense. A lot of hero ball by Trier and settling for contested jumpers. I don't know what it is about Sean Miller's teams - but they just don't have good offense down the stretch in big games. Maybe Arizona needs to dial back a few recruits and shoot for some guys who will stay for 3-4 years and get some stability late in games with their experience. Every year we have 1-2 19-20 year old talented stars (Trier, Markkanen, Stanley Johnson, Hollis-Jefferson, Aaron Gordon...) who resort to hero ball or just disappear at the end of the big games.

The best team we had was the elite 8 2014 team that had some veteran players with experience (TJ McConnell, Nick Johnson, Jordan Mayes) along with some talented freshmen/sophs (Gordon, Tarczewski, Hollis-Jefferson). They lost by a point to a very good Wisconsin team - but had the experience to overcome the inconsistency of some talented young guys. This year the entire core was underclassmen (outside of Jackson-Cartwright, a junior). Maybe Miller needs to look at a JC guy or two and try to get a transfer like McConnell was to bring in some big game experience. There's no reason this team should have taken 27 3s against Xavier given their size and quickness.

I have no champion left in my bracket.
I have only 2/4 Final Four candidates still alive.

I'm in the 56th percentile.

What a mess.

I have 2 of the final four but my champion is gone and I'm still only in the 45th percentile.

I have 2 of the final four but my champion is gone and I'm still only in the 45th percentile.

Wild guess: you have 4 of 8 teams playing tonight while I have 5 of 8. That sounds like maybe an 11 percent difference kinda thing.

Wild guess: you have 4 of 8 teams playing tonight while I have 5 of 8. That sounds like maybe an 11 percent difference kinda thing.

Yep. I've only got Florida on that side while I only missed on Wichita St beating Kentucky on the other side.

I miss the days when the NCAA tournament was on the main channels all day long. I have hardly seen any of this one because I can never find the damn channel its on. At work I can't stream..

So it makes me wonder why ABC and the like don't have it on all day long like they used to. Surely it would get better ratings than whatever else they have on.

Am I remembering it wrong?

I miss the days when the NCAA tournament was on the main channels all day long. I have hardly seen any of this one because I can never find the damn channel its on. At work I can't stream..

So it makes me wonder why ABC and the like don't have it on all day long like they used to. Surely it would get better ratings than whatever else they have on.

Am I remembering it wrong?

Several issues.

You're remembering right, everything was on CBS. The difference was that not every game got full national coverage (was regional/local games, like Sunday afternoon NFL) that was the one upside to the way it is now vs then.

But then the contract came up for renewal (NCAA exercised an early opt-out claus) and the only way CBS could come up with the cash to lock them back in was by splitting the costs (and the games) with Turner Networks. That's the price of outbidding ESPN who was reportedly coming after the deal hard.

14 yrs, $10.8B. They've since added another term to the deal, for an additional $8.8B that takes it til 2032

edit to add: oh, and in a separate deal, ESPN International got the rights for coverage outside the U.S.

I miss the days when the NCAA tournament was on the main channels all day long. I have hardly seen any of this one because I can never find the damn channel its on. At work I can't stream..

So it makes me wonder why ABC and the like don't have it on all day long like they used to. Surely it would get better ratings than whatever else they have on.

Am I remembering it wrong?

CBS previously had all the coverage. Round 3 as far as I can remember(87) has always been at night.

The only thing that has really changed is we now have the ability to watch any game we want where we didnt used to.

Does 3 seconds in the key exist anymore?

Did you here the Florida player say "Give me that shit!" as he blocked Nigel Hayes shot?

How can someone not find TBS, TNT, and TruTV after 7 years? It's literally the same 4 channels every year. Hell, DirecTV has them bunched together.

The SEC seems to be having a good tourney. Great finish in the Florida/Wisconsin game.

Wow

Took em long enough to get their first buzzer beater for One Shining Moment. :)

Happ needed to be aware of the time. Why didnt he come out?

Some great round 2nd and 3rd round games make up for the lackluster first round this year.

UNC/Kansas looking good right now. Gonzaga has an easier path but they arent playing very well.

That Wisconsin/Florida finish was insane. That game kept up the craziness rep this east bracket has had so far.

Make a damn FT, Wiscy.

Great game. Very fun to watch.

De'Aaron Fox was amazing.

UCLA's defense, was not.

How can someone not find TBS, TNT, and TruTV after 7 years? It's literally the same 4 channels every year. Hell, DirecTV has them bunched together.

The SEC seems to be having a good tourney. Great finish in the Florida/Wisconsin game.

Its not that I can't find them really, its that I didn't understand why those channels have games on them. I remember tuning into CBS and catching all the info and updates all day long, which was awesome. I kinda miss that simplicity. I understand the difference now, and it is probably better, but without following it incredibly closely it is a lot harder for me to keep up. I get busy at work and can't keep changing the channel back and forth to find the one with action on it, or the one with the closer game.

Thankfully I will be back on 3rd shift soon and I won't have to worry about not being able to stream stuff like this, which would make it a lot less necessary to keep a schedule handy so I know who is on what channel and when.

I generally watch most during tournament time and usually just stream it, I just didn't realize things had changed so much on TV.

A note about the Division II Championship:

Tune to CBS for the D2 Men's Championship game between my alma mater NW Missouri State and Fairmont State.

Let's go, Bearcats!

woohoo Bearcats! I guess? :)

woohoo Bearcats! I guess? :)

Yes, very much woohoo. On their way to being the only D2 team to win the Football and Men's Basketball championships in the same season. And did it losing 1 game between the both of them.

Congrats on the championship, Bearcats.

Yes, very much woohoo. On their way to being the only D2 team to win the Football and Men's Basketball championships in the same season. And did it losing 1 game between the both of them.

Congrats on the championship, Bearcats.

very impressive, moving up to Div I now?

very impressive, moving up to Div I now?

LOL I hope not, but you never know.

I know he's short and old, in a relative sense, but if Frank Mason falls to the end of round two as projected, somebody is going to get a steal. That guy is at least a valuable bench player.

I know he's short and old, in a relative sense, but if Frank Mason falls to the end of round two as projected, somebody is going to get a steal. That guy is at least a valuable bench player.

I see d-league player written all over him

Man if a team wants to pick up and force the ball that far outside I don't understand why florida is still trying to run a legit offense. Spread the floor have the point beat the defender. And it should be money all day with drive and kicks or drive and fouls. This is kind of head scratching right now

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

Looks like no one summarized the end of the second game last night. I'll do it in pictures since we all know KU graduates can't read.

http://i.imgur.com/zMWQYiY.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/GD5pTqMPDhkBO/giphy.gif

http://i.imgur.com/BN9NqqA.gif

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c8/88/17/c888175c19e58fae8bbbe8f9856b294b.gif

https://media.giphy.com/media/dyTWBF7oOkmNa/giphy.gif

http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/chicago_sports_mob/CRYHAWK.gif

Yeah, KU troubles themselves with tons of elite 8 appearances and losing while Mizzou troubles themselves with, umm, what exactly?!?!?!

Kansas has as many wins in the tourney since 2007 than Mizzou has had in its entire history. During that time, it has doubled the Elite 8 appearances Mizzou has had.

If Mizzou went on a Wooden like UCLA run, they would have to win the next 12 titles and have Kansas not win a single NCAA tourney game to match the Jayhawks history in the tournament.

I don't like Kansas much (OkState and Colorado are my two favorite teams). I'm thrilled that they were beat. But a Mizzou fan giving them crap? Seriously? Look at all those images and put a Tiger in them and that's been your entire athletic program for the last 50 years.

Yeah, KU troubles themselves with tons of elite 8 appearances and losing while Mizzou troubles themselves with, umm, what exactly?!?!?!

Kansas has as many wins in the tourney since 2007 than Mizzou has had in its entire history. During that time, it has doubled the Elite 8 appearances Mizzou has had.

If Mizzou went on a Wooden like UCLA run, they would have to win the next 12 titles and have Kansas not win a single NCAA tourney game to match the Jayhawks history in the tournament.

I don't like Kansas much (OkState and Colorado are my two favorite teams). I'm thrilled that they were beat. But a Mizzou fan giving them crap? Seriously? Look at all those images and put a Tiger in them and that's been your entire athletic program for the last 50 years.

I totally agree with your assessment that KU sucks.

I totally agree with your assessment that KU sucks.


If KU sucks, Missouri is a dumpster fire of complete and utter failure at every level.

Note: It's free speech, don't call some muscle to get me out of the thread, k?

If KU sucks, Missouri is a dumpster fire of complete and utter failure at every level.

Note: It's free speech, don't call some muscle to get me out of the thread, k?

We just called in the firemen. We'll get it straightened out soon enough. KU's biggest mistake was not scheduling us and kicking our ass every year during the worst three year stretch in Mizzou's history. We'll do a bit better than eight wins next year.

Please don't shit all over this thread MBBF. I know it isn't very likely, but it has to be asked.

Please don't shit all over this thread MBBF. I know it isn't very likely, but it has to be asked.

I've got an idea, you trolling dumbass. How about you post about the tournament instead of jumping on me? Oh, that's because your soon-to-be dead conference isn't in this tournament anymore.

Again, please don't shit on this thread.

Again, please don't shit on this thread.

Fuck you and the longhorn steer you just had sex with.

I knew it was too much to ask.

I knew it was too much to ask.

Best you just shut the fuck up and stop asking then.

Looks like Florida is heading to another last possession game.

Or not. Looks like the Gators are running out of gas.

Who picked South Carolina in their Final 4?

Kudos to Frank Martin. He's definitely a throwback coach with his heavy discipline approach, but genuinely a great guy and and huge asset to the basketball community and the SEC. He'll be fun to watch in the Final Four.

Who picked South Carolina in their Final 4?

Looks like a massive 0.3% in the ESPN pick 'em. :)

Frank Martin is an asshat

Sent from my SM-G730V using Tapatalk

MBBF will have a couple of weeks away from FOFC.

2 weeks of no ps4 or Missouri sports updates is like putting all of us in the penalty box.

Kentucky is doing a good job of keeping the game close with some of their key guys in foul trouble. But they are going to need them back on the court if they are going to win. The Tar Heels likely aren't going to have anymore 4 minute periods without scoring.

The Aussie for Kentucky is on fire!

Back to back clutch shots by each team! But UNC's was last, with .3 seconds left.

Only watched the last 6 minutes of this UNC-Kentucky deal, but the ending here has been a legit heavyweight fight. And Monk man..what a dude.

Another great finish

I want Monk on the Sixers.

Hell of a game - of course glad UNC won, but it could have gone either way.

Reminiscent of the Christian Laettner shot against Kentucky in the elite eight a couple of decades ago.

That was quite the game, wow.

An all Carolina final will light things up around here.

<----replaces Clemson with North Carolina in rivalry jokes just to get a head start.

An all Carolina final will light things up around here.

I'd love to see that - what South Carolina has been doing in the tournament is amazing.

The state of SC is trying to hold all the championship belts at once.

I'd try to rank them comparatively, but I'm now up on the current order of WWE belts.

The state of SC is trying to hold all the championship belts at once.

I'd try to rank them comparatively, but I'm now up on the current order of WWE belts.

They even are trying to get in on the NXT action, with the SC women playing tomorrow for a spot in the women's Final Four.

The state of SC is trying to hold all the championship belts at once.

I'd try to rank them comparatively, but I'm now up on the current order of WWE belts.

#1- Coastal Carolina winning the national baseball championship

all the rest. :)