The bowl festivities kick off tomorrow with 5 bowl games:

Glidan New Mexico Bowl
New Mexico vs. UT-San Antonio

Las Vegas Bowl presented by Geico
Houston vs. San Diego State

Raycom Media Camellia Bowl
Appalachian State vs. Toledo

AutoNation Cure Bowl
UCF vs. Arkansas State

R+L Carriers New Orleans Bowl
Southern Mississippi vs. Louisiana-Lafayette

Saw that the Clemson-OSU game has PAC -12 refs

https://media.giphy.com/media/pDgHg2Lcju3Ty/giphy.gif

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/grading-the-many-many-many-college-football-bowls/

Iowa/Florida- First one to 17 wins.

Could take a week

So they say "of course we have to show you the bands" then we get about 30 seconds of each band. Just enough for my daughter to start getting interested in watching the Grambling band and then get disappointed as they only show that clip (barely a clip).

The need to bolt down the cameras in NM, I'm getting dizzy here.

Really dumb penalty by the receiver. You know that you don't take your helmet off to celebrate, automatic penalty all day any day. Hope you are happy with yourself.

Where are some of these camera angles coming from in the Vegas Bowl? Satellite in orbit?

Not a bowl game, but the Division II Championship is on ESPN2. It's a total snow bowl at this point. Wind chills below zero. First one to score may win.

Not a bowl game, but the Division II Championship is on ESPN2. It's a total snow bowl at this point. Wind chills below zero. First one to score may win.

Ah yes. Football how it is meant to be played. Thanks for the heads-up. Turn it on and the first play is a touchdown lol.

I always get a kick out of refs that have the need to do the "touched the turf" hand motion when saying a pass is incomplete. On a pass over the middle, that's pretty much the definition of an incomplete pass, the ball touched the ground before the receiver caught it...so thanks for clearing that up... :)

Ah yes. Football how it is meant to be played. Thanks for the heads-up. Turn it on and the first play is a touchdown lol.

Amazed at how many players are going without sleeves. I don't care if there is a heater on the sideline........that's got to be brutal.

Herman got out at the right time. Or the team quit because Herman left.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/fCgvYyZ16iU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This app st toledo game is awesome

North Dakota State falls at home to James Madison in the FCS semi-finals. First home loss for NDSU since 1991. Stopped short of their 6th straight FCS championship game appearance. Streak had to end sometime.

You can have your bowl games, the finish to Youngstown St and Eastern Washington is one of the greatest in college football history.

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Catch of the Year!!<br><br>Youngstown State's Kevin Rader sends the Penguins to Frisco with an AMAZING snag! <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/FCSPlayoffs?src=hash">#FCSPlayoffs</a> <a href="https://t.co/JhH8A2QNsj">pic.twitter.com/JhH8A2QNsj</a></p>&mdash; FCS Football (@NCAA_FCS) <a href="https://twitter.com/NCAA_FCS/status/810322255020314624">December 18, 2016</a></blockquote>
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Holding anyone?

Karma, baby.

I guess that signals the end of Cooper Kupps career. Interested to see how his game translates to the NFL. I have a feeling he's gonna be really good, so I hope he doesn't end up in New England.. But I feel like they will be watching.

Bo Pelini sighting!

McCaffrey joins Fournette in sitting out the bowl game.

McCaffrey joins Fournette in sitting out the bowl game.

Popped into this thread for that very reason.

I can almost understand Fournette's decision. Injuries dimmed his star quite a bit this season, but McCaffrey?

Feels like a giant f.u. to his teammates, and calls his character into question for me a little bit. If he'll quit on Stanford then why would we expect different for his next employer?

You're only as good as your options. If dudes in the 1930s/40s/50s were able to make the kind of money players get now from going pro, you think they'd have wasted their time under the pretense of playing meaningless games?

Like, just read the history on some of this stuff.

Also, if a coach were say willing to limit these guys reps, maybe they'd be more inclined to take the trip and hang out one last time with their teammates.

On the flip side, I just can't work up the moral outrage, even if you reserve the same feelings for highly paid coaches that quit on their teams every year...when this is essentially a winning lottery ticket these guys are working with.

Popped into this thread for that very reason.

I can almost understand Fournette's decision. Injuries dimmed his star quite a bit this season, but McCaffrey?

Feels like a giant f.u. to his teammates, and calls his character into question for me a little bit. If he'll quit on Stanford then why would we expect different for his next employer?

His teammates have come out with their full support.

All it takes is one play. Jaylon Smith had insurance and got $900K in exchange for losing nearly $20MM in draft value.

On the flip side, I just can't work up the moral outrage, even if you reserve the same feelings for highly paid coaches that quit on their teams every year...when this is essentially a winning lottery ticket these guys are working with.

If I was holding a winning lottery ticket, I'd be really really careful about how I got to the office to claim the money.

I mean, if we want to go this far, why even bother playing college football at all? Just go the Maurice Clarett route... or the Jadaveon Clowney route in his final year, which was pretty much all "Operation Shutdown".

I think the restriction in jumping from high school to pro ball is ridiculous anyway, so let's just solve it.

Its time for the NFL to start a real minor league system. I would have no problems with the criminals goinbg that route. Or the really good players.

D2 and 3 ball is just as entertaining as FBS.

Think of all the headaches that would go away.

I have no problem with these guys skipping a meaningless exhibition game.
If a kid wants to skip, then fine.

It's not like it's the Rose Bowl or anything, it's the meaningless Sun Bowl. I'd have my ass on the bench too if it meant risking $10-20M over winning a pointless game.

D2 and 3 ball is just as entertaining as FBS.



Um, right.

It's not like it's the Rose Bowl or anything, it's the meaningless Sun Bowl. I'd have my ass on the bench too if it meant risking $10-20M over winning a pointless game.

That makes sense, but what was the "meaning" of any of Stanford's games this year, at least after they lost a few. Why play against Rice, or Cal, or anybody after October?

That makes sense, but what was the "meaning" of any of Stanford's games this year, at least after they lost a few. Why play against Rice, or Cal, or anybody after October?

Because the outcomes of those games might actually lead to some kind of title result? Not a meaningless exhibition at the end of the season.

Non-playoff bowl games are essentially the Pro Bowl of college sports except non-all-star.

1- This is the beginning of the end of the Bowls as we know them. I feel like no one but Jon and I will care...but the CFP and this combine to make the end of the bowls sooner than later.
2- Stanford paid for a personal injury policy on McCaffrey this season. That combined with his scholarship makes this feel like a major FU to his school to me.

Because the outcomes of those games might actually lead to some kind of title result? Not a meaningless exhibition at the end of the season.



Stanford's last few games didn't have any title implications. Why exactly was their finale against Rice so much more meaningful than the bowl game? But really, what is the meaning of the games even before that? Is it worth risking $20 million to improve Stanford's slim hopes of a Pac-12 North title? It is kind of a fiction that any of this matters at all. If the goal is to make lots of money doing this, star players should pull the plug a lot earlier. Those star players are making money for the schools but at some point, they've maxed out their draft position and are just risking their future.

2- Stanford paid for a personal injury policy on McCaffrey this season. That combined with his scholarship makes this feel like a major FU to his school to me.

If he gets hurt and never plays again, he gets $5MM. Being ruled injured enough to never play again is a pretty high bar.

Believe I saw his "loss of value" insurance was up to $3MM.

Again, Jaylon Smith lost out on about $19MM because of his injury. $900K in insurance plus his $5MMish contract against what he likely would have gotten as the #5 pick. And that's because someone took a shot on him in the second round. If he slips to the 4th instead, add another couple million lost.

If they don't want this to happen more frequently, they need to find a way to give them even better insurance. But I'm guessing the kind of premium that could result in a $20MM payout on loss of value would be a tad bit more expensive.

I don't know what Stanford had to lay out for his current insurance but I'm willing to wager McCaffrey's 2015 season (hell, maybe just his Rose Bowl performance alone) was enough for the school to earn +++EV on their investment when factoring in the value of his scholarship and the cost of insurance.

Why is it okay for a coach, like Tom Herman, to leave before a bowl game, but not a player?

Honestly, I think this is a bit of an overreaction. There are what 250 kids who get drafted? And like 90% of those guys can probably go anywhere between the 2nd round and not drafted depending on performance between now and draft day. I think maybe a couple of kids a year take this route.

I'm more worried about the convoluted bowl contracts that pit teams in the same slot of bowls every year killing my interest in the bowls. How many times out of ten do I have to watch Florida against Iowa or Georgia against Wisconsin?

Of course it's an overreaction. That's what the internet is based on.

Im not sure it is an overreaction. I think this reaction is what the NCAA and/or the P5 schools want.
This may signal the ned of the bowl season. 16 team playoff anyone? 32? 64?

And I agree with digamma. But, Iowa fans LOVE to go to Florida in January. No matter who they are playing. But I get tired of it being the 3rd or 4th or 5th best SEC team.

If we're saying 1st-round prospects shouldn't play even in the Fiesta Bowl, where Smith was injured, than I think it is a significant trend. Star players are way more significant than the mass of players who enjoy the free trip to wrap up their college careers. If it becomes a routine thing for star players to skip those games, I think it's fair to wonder why it's so important to play in regular season games whose only real meaning is to qualify for those meaningless bowl games.

And I'd love to see it become a trend because I think the whole big-time college sports thing is kind of ridiculous in the first place.

Looks like Iowa States entire roster is following CM and LFs lead and skipping Bowl season.

Didn't he get hurt earlier in the season?

Regardless, when 100% of your teammates support you and your decision, then I got no problem with it.

I think there is a lot of short sightedness here.

Let me spell it out more. ANd this isnt hypothetical, its real.
Lines are already out on this game.
Money has already been wagered.
McCaffery has no eligibility to lose.
He could get a nice $5MM payday by sitting on the couch.

Ok, ok...who really bets that much on Standford...
Hrmm check the books.

I mean close to home, Clemson has 5 players playing in their last game(s) here expected to be Top 3 round picks.
Think the odds makers would like to see Watson, Williams, Scott, Gallman and Watkins decide to not risk it...

It would be perfectly legal for them to sign with an agent right now, that agent to place that bet, and then advise them in good fiduciary discretion to sit out.

Im not sure it is an overreaction. I think this reaction is what the NCAA and/or the P5 schools want.
This may signal the ned of the bowl season. 16 team playoff anyone? 32? 64?

And I agree with digamma. But, Iowa fans LOVE to go to Florida in January. No matter who they are playing. But I get tired of it being the 3rd or 4th or 5th best SEC team.

Florida will still be there even without football games, fwiw.

I think there is a lot of short sightedness here.

Let me spell it out more. ANd this isnt hypothetical, its real.
Lines are already out on this game.
Money has already been wagered.
McCaffery has no eligibility to lose.
He could get a nice $5MM payday by sitting on the couch.

Ok, ok...who really bets that much on Standford...
Hrmm check the books.

I mean close to home, Clemson has 5 players playing in their last game(s) here expected to be Top 3 round picks.
Think the odds makers would like to see Watson, Williams, Scott, Gallman and Watkins decide to not risk it...

It would be perfectly legal for them to sign with an agent right now, that agent to place that bet, and then advise them in good fiduciary discretion to sit out.

And then it comes out and the agent goes to jail. And the 5 players go to jail or get booted from the NFL.

This could happen with anything. Agent signs those 5 players. Then "Coach, I strained my hammy." , "Coach, I strained an oblique".

Sure it could happen. But it could happen under a lot of circumstance.

Florida will still be there even without football games, fwiw.

True. But farmers need a reason to go. And what better then an Iowa bowl game?
Otherwise, things on the farm take precedent.

And then it comes out and the agent goes to jail. And the 5 players go to jail or get booted from the NFL.

This could happen with anything. Agent signs those 5 players. Then "Coach, I strained my hammy." , "Coach, I strained an oblique".

Sure it could happen. But it could happen under a lot of circumstance.

Uhmmm... it would not be illegal.
Every football player is "injured" prove the ankle didn't hurt.

There is no insider trading with sports gaming... its not throwing a game if you don't play

His teammates have come out with their full support.


Then they've got character issues, same as him.

Uhmmm... it would not be illegal.
Every football player is "injured" prove the ankle didn't hurt.

There is no insider trading with sports gaming... its not throwing a game if you don't play

It would be if it came out they signed with an agent and the agent and players benefited financially by betting against their team. If we are going down that road. Let's go all the way.

Then they've got character issues, same as him.

So if you get a job offer and you are in the middle of a project at your current job, but the new job pays way better, like 100 times better, you would stay at your current job?

Looks like Iowa States entire roster is following CM and LFs lead and skipping Bowl season.

Dude, this article was satire. (http://www.widerightnattylite.com/2016/12/19/14006024/iowa-state-cyclones-fournette-and-mccaffrey-lead-sit-out-bowl-season-satire)

Iowa State was 3-9 this year.

So if you get a job offer and you are in the middle of a project at your current job, but the new job pays way better, like 100 times better, you would stay at your current job?

I fulfill my current commitment. And have.

I hope karma gets McCaffrey, in a big way. He's got no character, no heart, and I wouldn't want him near a foxhole nor a field with anything on the line. Fuck a coward.

I think there is a lot of short sightedness here.

Let me spell it out more. ANd this isnt hypothetical, its real.
Lines are already out on this game.
Money has already been wagered.
McCaffery has no eligibility to lose.
He could get a nice $5MM payday by sitting on the couch.

Ok, ok...who really bets that much on Standford...
Hrmm check the books.

I mean close to home, Clemson has 5 players playing in their last game(s) here expected to be Top 3 round picks.
Think the odds makers would like to see Watson, Williams, Scott, Gallman and Watkins decide to not risk it...

It would be perfectly legal for them to sign with an agent right now, that agent to place that bet, and then advise them in good fiduciary discretion to sit out.

Clemson is in the playoff to play for a national title. This is an entirely different conversation than playing in the Wheaties Bowl on ESPN4 in Palalaooka, Oklahoma.

Also all of the employer metaphors are moot, since most of the paternalists against this shenanigans don't actually think college athletes are professionals and somehow think "grant-in-aid" is equal to some kind of employment contract with all of the attendant rights that it comes with.

Dude, this article was satire. (http://www.widerightnattylite.com/2016/12/19/14006024/iowa-state-cyclones-fournette-and-mccaffrey-lead-sit-out-bowl-season-satire)

Iowa State was 3-9 this year.

So was my post. Guess you havent seen my unbridled hate for Iowa State.
I saw a tweet of this and laughed my ass off.

I fulfill my current commitment. And have.

I hope karma gets McCaffrey, in a big way. He's got no character, no heart, and I wouldn't want him near a foxhole nor a field with anything on the line. Fuck a coward.

And I bet he smokes the damn pot too!

Clemson is in the playoff to play for a national title. This is an entirely different conversation than playing in the Wheaties Bowl on ESPN4 in Palalaooka, Oklahoma.

Also all of the employer metaphors are moot, since most of the paternalists against this shenanigans don't actually think college athletes are professionals and somehow think "grant-in-aid" is equal to some kind of employment contract with all of the attendant rights that it comes with.

and those fans have bought the tickets that paid for his scholarship and now they won't see him play.

He better hope the NFL works out or he deservesaid to be blackballed by every alumni in the country.

How many Stanford grads care about football that much?

And also: football != war.

(Though I'd put money on New Orleans as Jon's favorite war battle.)

(edit: actually -- and I don't remember the answer to this -- has Jon been on a football or battlefield?)

Im not sure it is an overreaction.

Still think no one is overreacting after this last round of posts?

Still think no one is overreacting after this last round of posts?

:)

and those fans have bought the tickets that paid for his scholarship and now they won't see him play.

He better hope the NFL works out or he deserve said to be blackballed by every alumni in the country.

LOL that you think tickets pay for scholarships.

Scholarships aren't "paid for" they're just write-off by the institution. Much like owning a restaurant and letting people eat for free. A fringe benefit, because it's not costing you anything. Classes are going to happen whether football & basketball players are there or not.

I think it's tacky to skip it but what I think doesn't matter. I think overthinking a game in El Paso and what kid decides reeks of an inflated opinion of self importance. Pull his scholarship for not living up to the "contract" of a scholarship if the school feels slighted. I don't like it either but it's not my decision to make

LOL that you think tickets pay for scholarships.

Scholarships aren't "paid for" they're just write-off by the institution. Much like owning a restaurant and letting people eat for free. A fringe benefit, fbecause it's not costing you anything. Classes are going to happen whether football & basketball players are there or not.

LOL at what u are suggsting.
it would be illegal in public state supported institutions.
The athletic booster clubs pay for the scholarships.
Period. Athletic and academic institutions are completely different profit centers and often even different corporations.

Not that I personally endow a scholarship or anything :rolleyes:

Unsurprising when smart people make prudently calculated calls.

Didn't he get hurt earlier in the season?

Regardless, when 100% of your teammates support you and your decision, then I got no problem with it.

He was banged up and was crap for a couple games (like 110 total yards in 2 games) and missed the Notre Dame game.

McCaffrey joins Fournette in sitting out the bowl game.

Good for him. I wouldn't be surprised to see more of this.

Maybe it'll get the NCAA to seriously think about compensating its players. Though I'm also fine an NFL minor league as well.

battlefield?)

Does the war for what little good is left in America count?
I mean, it kinda should.

If you're waging it behind a keyboard, no it does not count.

I personally think Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates should be forced to give all the money they've earned back to their universities since they left before they graduated. /hot take

That is the kid's future and it is a relatively meaningless football game.

Would I do it? I like to think I would play the game because, like Jon, I would want to honor my commitments and my teammates and my school.

But I don't have a big problem if a player thinks otherwise and wants to make a decision for his future instead.

And, yea, if it was a playoff game where you have a chance at a title, I would think of it differently.

Players wanting to opt out is a valuable indicator of the street value of the "less than playoff" bowls.

Players want to protect their future income stream? I think it is fair. The coaches have the best attorneys trying to seal up big contracts with "extra" money for the now exposed trash bowls.

College coaching is a cesspool of self serving, what's in it for me at the next gig, family of the entitled.

College sports is now a big money machine...players know it, coaches know it, sponsors know it, lots of fan don't get it...naively thinking that the players and coaching staffs "care" about the team. Just stop.

Show me the money...is the result of the new game in town...especially for the best players and most highly sought coaches.

Stolen from another forum. But this is what it is about today. Not Rah, rah, sis boom bah! Go team!

Wyoming down 24-21 in the 4th, has scored 2 TDs to make it 24-21 with 2 minutes left

That is the kid's future and it is a relatively meaningless football game.

Would I do it? I like to think I would play the game because, like Jon, I would want to honor my commitments and my teammates and my school.

But I don't have a big problem if a player thinks otherwise and wants to make a decision for his future instead.

And, yea, if it was a playoff game where you have a chance at a title, I would think of it differently.

Not picking on your post here, just using it as kind of a catalyst for another point I want to make.

Just FTR, I have the same sort of problem with stuff like AP saying (paraphrasing) something about how he only wanted to come back if the Vikings were still in the playoff picture. No bitch, you bring your ass to work if we're paying you and say come to work. That's the Vikings call, not AP's.

Wyoming down 24-21 in the 4th, has scored 2 TDs to make it 24-21 with 2 minutes left

Yeah, the Pokes lose. But like with most Wyoming teams, they blew opportunities and our playcalling was largely mad suspect.

But I'll take an 8-win season and a rivalry game over the 2 win smegma that we had last year.

Yeah, the Pokes lose. But like with most Wyoming teams, they blew opportunities and our playcalling was largely mad suspect.

But I'll take an 8-win season and a rivalry game over the 2 win smegma that we had last year.

Bohl has turned then around quickly, and it seems like that may be his destination job based on the fact he wants to establish roots in Wyoming. He will have them in contention for the MWC title for years to come.

Though I am less than pleased BYU couldn't put them to sleep after going up 24-7, a large part of that relates directly to the mindset Bohl has instilled. Past Poke teams may have folded, but they kept playing hard, and if they had any semblance of a run defense they would have won this game. Congrats on a solid season nonetheless.

If they keep playing like this, maybe Idaho should reconsider the drop to FCS.

What is up with that field? It looks dangerous as heck. Re: Wyoming. I'm really looking forward to watching them next year.

If they keep playing like this, maybe Idaho should reconsider the drop to FCS.

There isn't a conference for them at this point. They said they're comfortable with the drop down. If all goes well, they could eventually become a power program down there and that seems like it'd be better for them overall.

Boise State isn't relinquishing their hold on the state, so no real need to compete with them at that level even though I imagine it sucks as the flagship.

Edit: HOLY COW. I didn't realize they put 61 on CSU. Damn. Respect.

QB came out and said the same thing re: dropping down.

Idaho Vandals' Matt Linehan critical of program's move to FCS (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18336885/idaho-vandals-matt-linehan-critical-program-move-fcs)

Brian Hill, Wyoming's star RB declared for the NFL draft. I don't blame him. He had a solid year and would be a good 2nd day pick for somebody.

Wyoming's Brian Hill to enter NFL draft, can compete in loaded RB class | NFL | Sporting News (http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/brian-hill-nfl-draft-stock-wyoming-running-back-projection/1ju2o06leq7bb10i6ajrpp7ca4)

Idaho breaks Potato Bowl yardage record in victory over Colorado State - SBNation.com (http://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2016/12/22/14066146/idaho-colorado-state-potato-bowl-2016-final-score)

Idaho had a weird year. They didn't really play anyone any good but wins are wins and they weren't expected to be near as good as they ended up being, record wise. Linehan or whatever his name is was very impressive all season. They play in a warehouse though, with goal posts that are hung from the effin walls of the building. I guess Bryan Hill should get payed if he can but I'd have like to see him come back. I think Bohl can build, but this just feels like a team that could be quasi special next year. Or maybe what they accomplished this year is their realistic limit, I dunno. But I would have liked to see them push for a MW title.

At least that game has been around for 20 years (talking about the yardage record). Remember watching a game (last year I believe) and the announcers were talking about all of the records set for that specific bowl game. I didn't remember anything about that game so I looked it up and it had been around for only 2 years (this was the third game). Seriously bragging about bowl game records when it has a history of only two other games? Sorry, that became a major pet peeve at that point. :)

Bowl games have been seriously watered down when you have a 6-6 team taking on a 5-7 team.

Army is ahead of UNT 24-7. Army has scored 4 TDs and converted 0 PAT (one 1 point and three 2 point attempts).

Idaho had a weird year. They didn't really play anyone any good but wins are wins and they weren't expected to be near as good as they ended up being, record wise. Linehan or whatever his name is was very impressive all season. They play in a warehouse though, with goal posts that are hung from the effin walls of the building. I guess Bryan Hill should get payed if he can but I'd have like to see him come back. I think Bohl can build, but this just feels like a team that could be quasi special next year. Or maybe what they accomplished this year is their realistic limit, I dunno. But I would have liked to see them push for a MW title.

An 8-win season after just 2 wins when the MWC wasn't exactly down is pretty insane. I'm super intrigued to see what they do next year, but I think with a year of experience they'll be better or at least hoping.

Idaho is kinda screwed with Boise being good and without the stadium or any real resources in a small market to begin with. Moscow isn't even the only FBS program nearby and Pullman (WSU) is pretty much the worst FBS city in the entire division, so....just a hard sell especially without a conference or bowl tie-ins.

One more year in FBS. Next year's OOC is Sac State, UNLV, Western Michigan & a date with Mizzou.

Wake Forest finds out it is easier to score when the other team doesn't have access to your gameplans.

Kind of a fun side moment with tonight's Minnesota game.

After Brooks caught the tipped pass for a TD, I posted the highlight & tagged his HS team page. They (which I _think_ is the head coach on the page) almost immediately replied "we taught him that LOL"

I (and another local) both pointed out that "play to the whistle" and don't quit WERE things they instilled in him, so they did kinda teach him to be in that spot.

I dunno, the whole exchange just kinda struck me as being cool, 'cause I was thinking how many different times from little out of the way high schools that sort of thing must happen every year.

Im shocked Minnesota is ahead. Shocked.

But good for the B1G. The narrsative on ESecPN is that the B1G is overrated.

Fuck ESecPN.

Im shocked Minnesota is ahead. Shocked.

But good for the B1G. The narrsative on ESecPN is that the B1G is overrated.

Fuck ESecPN.

Washington St cant do anything against a depleted Gophers defense. Pac-12 is overrated. It is like the Gophers are calling the plays for Wazzou.

Im shocked Minnesota is ahead. Shocked.

But good for the B1G. The narrsative on ESecPN is that the B1G is overrated.

Fuck ESecPN.

Who the fuck said that the B1G is overrated? Cause I sure havent heard that shit. All I hear about is how the Big Ten is the best conference in the country - and rightfully so. I dont think E!SPN has pushed the SEC it all this nowl year- outside of Bama, who happens to be the best team in the country.

Having said that, Wazzu was dogshit and disinterested. Minnesota was able to run that train on them - wait, too early?

Yeah, as always, most bowl games are about who wants to play. Minnesota had some motivation to rally around their fallen (albeit by self inflicted wounds) teammates.

Give Leach weeks of preparation and he usually melts down. Usually before a FCS opponent to start the year

What I've seen of Indiana/Utah has been entertaining. Unfortunately the Fox feed is cutting in and out so much that it's virtually unwatchable.

What I've seen of Indiana/Utah has been entertaining. Unfortunately the Fox feed is cutting in and out so much that it's virtually unwatchable.

I had to switch it over to the Spanish language version of Fox Sports. It is a great game. Joe Williams is a beast but Indiana is hanging in there.

Ugh. Indiana can never close out these close games. Glad for how scrappy we were, but I have little faith in Lagow. I hope we have someone to compete with him for the starting QB job next year.

Really stray thought here. Saw a snippet about Lane Kiffin that started me wondering something

... has been pulling double duty ever since in trying to hire a staff and get a jump on recruiting.

"Lot of late nights, but it was important to me and the right thing to do to finish it out here at Alabama," Kiffin said.

And for some reason that made me wonder: what really IS the very first thing someone hired to come into a college HC job does? Basically, I started thinking about the way a lot of us text simmers go through our rosters position by position & player by player ... is that practical step one? Or do they go through the staff lineup first? Meetings with their AssMan? Or are they too busy figuring out where to live & the logistics of moving their family to spend more than five minutes on any of that initially?

Sure, there's plenty of multitasking to be done & all 'cause they have to "play" in real time ... but surely there's something that's actually THE top priority. I just don't think I've ever heard anyone actually say in any detail what that actually is.

Getting the core of a staff in place, for sure.

Growing number of Group of 5 officials considering playoff for non-Power 5 teams (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18369921/growing-number-group-5-officials-considering-playoff-non-power-5-teams)

Even in this article, half the ADs interviewed are like "no way, no how" but the fact that it's even coming up as a convo is interesting. I think a G5 National Title game that runs like a bowl would be an interesting challenge for the G5 team that has a chance to play in a NY6 bowl vs. "for a national title."

As a G5 fan, I'd surely prefer to play for a national title, but I bet they'd be afraid that it would limit their access to the P5 and eventually segregate them into their own subdivision.

But aren't they in their own subdivision now anyway? As I stated in another thread, if Western Michigan can go 13-0 and not even sniff a chance at the playoff, what's the point? I have no idea what the bowl payout structure is, though I'm assuming it's decently lucrative. But maybe it becomes more lucrative for them to just say screw it and go with a playoff or a title game of their own. 6 team with a bye for the top 2 or a 8 team. It'll probably garnish more exposure than playing in the CockRingWarehouse.com bowl would.

The Group of 5 gets $83.5 million this year for participation in the current set up, plus individual bowl payouts. I'm not sure they can beat that from a hard numbers standpoint, plus I think there are several things that would argue against it, namely that it would hurt recruiting. I think a number of Go5 schools oppose this.

The Group of 5 gets $83.5 million this year for participation in the current set up, plus individual bowl payouts. I'm not sure they can beat that from a hard numbers standpoint, plus I think there are several things that would argue against it, namely that it would hurt recruiting. I think a number of Go5 schools oppose this.

Yeah these were the numbers I was looking for. And tend to agree on the hurting recruiting thing. Right now, at least dudes who get overlooked by some SEC/B1G school can go take out their frustrations on the field at a program that's at least "at the same level" rather than falling into the FCS ghetto of only playing them once or twice a year.

Really stray thought here. Saw a snippet about Lane Kiffin that started me wondering something



And for some reason that made me wonder: what really IS the very first thing someone hired to come into a college HC job does? Basically, I started thinking about the way a lot of us text simmers go through our rosters position by position & player by player ... is that practical step one? Or do they go through the staff lineup first? Meetings with their AssMan? Or are they too busy figuring out where to live & the logistics of moving their family to spend more than five minutes on any of that initially?

Sure, there's plenty of multitasking to be done & all 'cause they have to "play" in real time ... but surely there's something that's actually THE top priority. I just don't think I've ever heard anyone actually say in any detail what that actually is.

I've got a little perspective here because I was a paid graduate assistant on staff when Clemson went from Tommy West to Tommy Bowden.

It was one of the most interesting months of my life.

Totally sounds like a cop out answer but, it depends.

Is the new coach bringing his own staff with him? Is he retaining ANYONE? from the old staff? Is he already on the current staff?

But once the job is accepted and first day on site the absolute first order of business is a staff meeting. If you are even considering keeping any assistants you need to calm them and not have them spending 100% of their time looking for their next gig.

You have to have a staff and you have to respect that there are a bunch of families in the sway here. So you have to treat any outgoing coaches with dignity and in coming coaches have to have that as well. The kids are bonded to the coaches. Treat them wrong and you lose the locker room before the welcome speech. That actually should happen before the HC is announced. He should know who he is keeping for the most part.

Then you address the team. Introduce yourself and get them stabilized. They are in flux as well.

Now the most critical time sensitive deal is recruiting. Today you have roughly a month to finalize this class. Who do you have relationships with that may want to follow you. Who does the staff have relationships with that will transfer to you.

[Side note - One of the weirder things I witnessed was a recently fired Tommy West introducing recruits to newly hired Tommy Bowden. Even though he'd been fired he cared so much about the school, team, kids etc he wanted to make it as easy as possible on everyone.]

Most good Ad's will have the housing situation handled. Every school has a local developer/broker among their donors. You just reach out for a high end rental and include it for 6 months in the contract to the coach. At least the goo ADs do this.

What are your thoughts on the Clemson - Ohio State matchup, CU?

I don't like the match-up from an Ohio State perspective. I expect Clemson's WRs to be a huge problem, I still have occasional nightmares of Sammy Watkins. Also, I don't think Gallman will have much success in the run game but I think Watson will be unleashed to make up for it. Clemson's DL will be a big problem for OSU but I do think Ohio State's offense will have success and keep it close.

Also, who is Butter rooting for in this one?

I remember the house one of our basketball coaches got. It was strange, that it was in a developed area on the main throughway. It wasnt hidden at all. Thought that was very strange.

I've got a little perspective here because I was a paid graduate assistant on staff when Clemson went from Tommy West to Tommy Bowden.

I actually wondered if you might have some insight on this.

And "depends" was one of the first things I thought of really, so that makes sense.

Is the new coach bringing his own staff with him? Is he retaining ANYONE? from the old staff? Is he already on the current staff?

This part, one of the sub-plots I wondered about. Again, likely depends upon the circumstances of the hiring 'cause might have weeks/months of lead time kind of knowing or might be nearly as surprised by a whirlwind as anybody else but ... I wonder what the norms are about _knowing_ who you're bringing with vs "well damn, let's see what we can/need to do here" are.

He should know who he is keeping for the most part.

I'm taking that as "X,Y,Z are gone ... even if I'm not 100% sure who will eventually replace them"

Most good Ad's will have the housing situation handled. Every school has a local developer/broker among their donors. You just reach out for a high end rental and include it for 6 months in the contract to the coach. At least the goo ADs do this.

I shoulda thought of that, honestly (though I was thinking more of married coaches, but maybe their wives/families are "military mindset" are just roll with it)

Jon,
My dream from the day the doc told me I'd never play again top the day Coach West was fired was to be a college football coach. What instantly made me say...no thanks was your last line. You start talking to football coaches and their kids have been in 5-6 elementary schools. Plus its a high profile position. Even at a small school "Sally is Georgia State's football coaches daughter. She must be rich" never mind dad is an OL coach making $65k working 100+ hours a week. It just wasnt the life I wanted for my kids. When I sold my business I hung around football fields for a year and thought about heading back to that calling, because it is STILL a calling, but the game has changed so much.The kids have changed. Ive changed etc.

Yeah if someone is a stinker it's known. Plus usually if its a move up, like it was for Bowden, he's taking his entire staff with him. They are moving up together. He will have few allies at the new place so he needs to bring as many as he can.

Funny story here, Tommy Bowden comes in and day 1 he goes and talks to Coach Joey Batson, Clemson's long time S&C coach. He tells coach B that he is not going to be retained and that the S&C coach from Tulane is coming. The entire AD melts down. Whats?!!?!?!? Batson is the best in the business. Holds numerous patents on equipment he designed and developed. A local and national legend. Tommy understands but doesnt blink. He calls his guy in Tulane and tells him to get his shit up there. His guy says he doesnt want to go from Head S&C to an assistant and he is staying put. Tommy explains that he will be head S&C coach. Tulane guy says "What you aren't keeping Joey? Have you lost your f'ing mind?!?" Tommy starts to second guess himself. He calls Joey (Joey doesnt have a cell phone in 99) they finally reach Joey at the Marriott hotel in Tallahassee Florida where he is prepared to interview with Bobby Bowden the next morning to become head S&C at FSU in 1999. At the peak of FSU's heyday. They kiss, make up. Joey gets a $75k raise and flys back home to Clemson where he remains today. Clemson fans universally hate Joey B and think he is a horrible S&C coach through the duration of the Tommy Bowden tenure. Dabo gets the permanent job. He sits down with B and says "What do you need that you dont have." Batson writes a list and has a cost analysis he has had prepared for the last 3 years. He hands it to Dabo. Dabo goes into then AD Terry Don Phillip's office and says I need $300k for the following changes to our S&C program. Ad says no. Dabo says take my new 3 year contract and reduce it $100k per year and give him that money. We can't beat the best without the best trainers. Done.

What are your thoughts on the Clemson - Ohio State matchup, CU?

I don't like the match-up from an Ohio State perspective. I expect Clemson's WRs to be a huge problem, I still have occasional nightmares of Sammy Watkins. Also, I don't think Gallman will have much success in the run game but I think Watson will be unleashed to make up for it. Clemson's DL will be a big problem for OSU but I do think Ohio State's offense will have success and keep it close.

Also, who is Butter rooting for in this one?

I suspect Butter is a full on Orange convert. Based on the road trip photos Ive seen of him the wife and son all decked out in Orange headed to phoenix.

My thoughts?
A war.
Could go either way.
Could get ugly either way.

This will be nothing like the Sammy Watkins show of a few years ago. OSU is much better in the secondary than they were then. They play a ton of press man and that will negate most of the quick screen stuff.

Controversial statement alert: Clemson has the best Defensive Line that OSU has played all year. AND IT ISN'T CLOSE. Clemson is healthy along the d line for the first time all year. They will roll a legit 7 future NFL first 2 rounders out Saturday night. Clemson 4-7 is as good as Michigan 1-4.

Now back to grounded reality. Clemson's LBers outside of #6 Dorian Odaniel are S-L-O-W thumpers. Slot, RB and TE seam routes are the Achilles heel. Mix in some wheel routes and its Sack or Six. This is my biggest fear for my Tigers.

You dont shut down Barret. He is too good. We will limit his passing but he will get his. OSU wont run up the gut on Clemson. They can and should have success hitting the edges rushing. Cut backs also have a chance to gash.

I actually expect Gallman to have a bigger than expected game. Nothing crazy but I expect him to be in the 90-110 yard range. Watson will be turned loose. Whether he runs or not will be his call.

I expect a 42-35 type game either way. BUT if Clemson can establish the run earl it could be like Oklahoma last year where Clemson pulls away in the 2nd half. If DW4 tries to be a hero and in turn throws a few picks it could get ugly in Ohio State's favor.

Someone needs to punch Mike Patrick in the throat right now.

I will let the homerism go. I understand it. Enjoy your foray into your fantasy world of defense.

:)

I know I'll get hell for this, but I don't give a crap. Every official in the VA Tech/Arkansas game involved in the last call (including the replay crew) need to be suspended for multiple games. That was a joke of a call from the start to the end of it. Shameful.

They keep talking about an inadvertent whistle.

I dont think it will make that big a difference in the final score. But no one had a clue as to what was going on. Maybe they will give VPI an extra play after the clock expires to make up for it. :)

The explanation was there was an inadvertent whistle while there was no clear possession so give it back to the punting team. Wtf.

At worst you re kick that.

And BTW someone needs to tell Mike Patrick that brief half seconds of silence won't cause death.

Everyone else gets to see the shitshow that's Big 12 officiating.

This dude played college football in that he was a practice guy who got a few reps at an FCS and now he's at TCU. But a Fulbright and now a Rhodes Scholar. Not bad.

The remarkable story of TCU's Rhodes scholar, Caylin Moore (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18358380/the-remarkable-story-tcu-rhodes-scholar-caylin-moore)

Everyone else gets to see the shitshow that's Big 12 officiating.

And it scares me for Saturday night. Specifically as it relates to Defense, PI and Targeting calls.
The two best defenses tht crew has seen all year will be playing each other. If they dont let them play the zebras have the ability to steal the show

Well, this game isnt quite over is it?

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/gODZzSOelss" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Second half of the Tech/Arkansas game is the most surprising result this bowl season.

Second half of the Tech/Arkansas game is the most surprising result this bowl season.

Arkansas was +63 in the first half and -90 in the second half on the season. It wasn't that surprising that they collapsed.

tarcone, I took Iowa in my parlay. Don't let me down!

I will be in the Clemson section rooting for Clemson. I usually can root for both without incident, but I have crossed the line once and for all... If you make me choose, I choose orange.

That's going to happen when you go to four years' worth of home games.

I still love Ohio State football, but it's like the difference in loving your dog and loving your wife and kids.

tarcone, I took Iowa in my parlay. Don't let me down!

I have Iowa winning. Their defense has really come together after that PsU beat down.

On offense, if they let Wadley do his thing, they will score enough.

Good choice.

Colorado sure looks terrible in this bowl game.

PAC 12 as a whole has been underwhelming in the bowls so far.

Good night from Texas, halfway on a drive to Phoenix!

I will be in the Clemson section rooting for Clemson. I usually can root for both without incident, but I have crossed the line once and for all... If you make me choose, I choose orange.

That's going to happen when you go to four years' worth of home games.

I still love Ohio State football, but it's like the difference in loving your dog and loving your wife and kids.

Booooo! GO BUCKS!

Plus, I think the proper analogy would have been that it's like the difference between loving your cat and loving your nuts...

It's not too much to expect announcers to get the name of the player right when they score a TD. Kenny Hill scored on a designed QB run and both the play-by-play and color commentator attributed the TD to the RB, even when calling the replay.

I would think the ability to properly identify the guy scoring, when he's wearing #7 and the one you're talking about wears #21, is a basic skill that every announcer that gets to the TV level would get right.

It's not too much to expect announcers to get the name of the player right when they score a TD. Kenny Hill scored on a designed QB run and both the play-by-play and color commentator attributed the TD to the RB, even when calling the replay.

I would think the ability to properly identify the guy scoring, when he's wearing #7 and the one you're talking about wears #21, is a basic skill that every announcer that gets to the TV level would get right.

The announcers have provided some "interesting" commentary during these games.

One thing that I have learned is that "you don't mind being down by three scores in the 1st half but you don't want to be down by three scores in the second half." The follow up was something along the lines of "most coaches would agree." Most? I want to meet the coach that says he would rather be down by three scores in the second half than the first half; that would be an unemployed coach.

But aren't they in their own subdivision now anyway? As I stated in another thread, if Western Michigan can go 13-0 and not even sniff a chance at the playoff, what's the point?

I think if Northwestern was 11-1 or maybe even 10-2 instead of 6-6 heading into bowl season, they definitely could have sniffed it.

It's not impossible, but beating mediocre to bad P5 schools isn't getting anyone's attention. Houston would have certainly made it if they had been 12-0.

CUSA just took a huge cut in it's new TV deal ($300k-$400k less per school) so I don't see a G5 playoff generating all that much interest from networks.

It's not impossible, but beating mediocre to bad P5 schools isn't getting anyone's attention. Houston would have certainly made it if they had been 12-0.

CUSA just took a huge cut in it's new TV deal ($300k-$400k less per school) so I don't see a G5 playoff generating all that much interest from networks.

I think that CUSA cut was due to their best teams mostly moving to the AAC. They were a better conference a few years back. Now, they're in the discussion with the Sun Belt for the worst in FBS.

It's not too much to expect announcers to get the name of the player right when they score a TD. Kenny Hill scored on a designed QB run and both the play-by-play and color commentator attributed the TD to the RB, even when calling the replay.

I would think the ability to properly identify the guy scoring, when he's wearing #7 and the one you're talking about wears #21, is a basic skill that every announcer that gets to the TV level would get right.

If the spotter was insisting it was 21, there could be a tendency not to trust your own lying eyes. The bowl games also seem to have more thrown together crews than the regular season, you may be working with different partners, different technical crew, etc.

It's embarrassing (or should be to a decent announcer) but I can see how it could happen.

If the spotter was insisting it was 21, there could be a tendency not to trust your own lying eyes. The bowl games also seem to have more thrown together crews than the regular season, you may be working with different partners, different technical crew, etc.

It's embarrassing (or should be to a decent announcer) but I can see how it could happen.

The initial call, maybe, but not the replay. At that point someone should have piped up saying 7 had the ball, not 21.

The initial call, maybe, but not the replay. At that point someone should have piped up saying 7 had the ball, not 21.

Once the mistake is made, there's a chance that as many as 3-4 people are all seeing it differently, but each is hesitant to change 'cause "my own lying eyes" and stuff.

I didn't see the play but isn't it fairly easy to tell the difference between the person taking the snap and the person he didn't hand it to? I could see if it was a handoff and they confused two different running backs but this seems like it would be an easy one.

I didn't see the play but isn't it fairly easy to tell the difference between the person taking the snap and the person he didn't hand it to? I could see if it was a handoff and they confused two different running backs but this seems like it would be an easy one.

I didn't see it either, but I can see several ways that'd screw up in the first place.

Thought there was a wildcat play? Somebody (spotter or announcer) simply brain cramped and said it wrong the first time (that can happen)? If there was a fake of some sort, you can bite on the fake & lock in on the wrong name initially, then your brain kinda locks on the name and can't shake it because you're trying to describe everything else.

It's one of those things that can sound/look really bad, I'm not excusing it as anything other than a straight up fuck up, but if you say enough stuff over the course of a day or a year, sooner or later you're gonna screw something up pretty bad.

I am always so confused by where the lines are on sportsmanship. So there are people who would get offended by the Volunteers' celebration of that kid breaking the sack record? I don't get it.

I am always so confused by where the lines are on sportsmanship. So there are people who would get offended by the Volunteers' celebration of that kid breaking the sack record? I don't get it.

Yeah, there would be. And I won't criticize 'em if they feel that way.

Me? I was calling for Butch to take the timeout and let the team enjoy it with him. He earned that, great motor, lot of heart, 100% kind of guy.

I didn't see the play but isn't it fairly easy to tell the difference between the person taking the snap and the person he didn't hand it to? I could see if it was a handoff and they confused two different running backs but this seems like it would be an easy one.

21 was in the backfield, but there wasn't even a fake handoff. It was a straight run with 21 being the lead blocker.

Stanford wins. Their QB might be out through fall camp due to an injury in a bowl game and McCaffrey is probably thinking "thankfully that wasnt me. That just validated my decision"

McCaffrey is probably thinking "thankfully that wasnt me. That just validated my decision"

Well he has now established a track record of thinking dead fucking wrong, so you're probably right.

No heart, no character...maybe that's why his replacement double his yards-after-contact average today.

Wouldn't draft the p.o.s., wouldn't hire him to haul fucking trash.

Man, I'd hate to be the guy at the deli who accidentally puts tomato on your sandwich.

So my belief that Michigan would give Alabama a game may have been a bit incorrect.

So my belief that Michigan would give Alabama a game may have been a bit incorrect.

Super old stereotype that will make look like a Big Ten hater I know but damn Michigan just looks so much slower than FSU.

Man, I'd hate to be the guy at the deli who accidentally puts tomato on your sandwich.

Yes.

Yes you would.

I might even be able to provide you credible witnesses to vouch for that fact if you have any lingering doubts.

Deondre Francois has been getting his ass kicked all season. I don't know if he needs to get rid of the ball faster or his O-line needs to block better but he won't make it to his senior year if this keeps up.

Apparently Seminole is from the Latin Whoopus Assus.

1-0-2-0-85

Michigan's defense is 80% brilliant, but that other 20%...

I'd rather have Dalvin Cook than Fournette.

I'd rather have Dalvin Cook than Fournette.

That seems fair to me.

Hmmmm. Look at Michigan out run FSU. They seem faster than FSU.

Fuck you B1G haters. Not really. But fuck you anyway.

What a crazy game

This is fun

Fuck Jabrill Peppers. His "injury" is something that I have a hard time buying.

Hmmmm. Look at Michigan out run FSU. They seem faster than FSU.

Fuck you B1G haters. Not really. But fuck you anyway.

Speaking as someone from Minnesota and a fan of the B1G it is sort of the little man syndrome with a lot of B1G fans. Simply because the SEC is a much better football conference(most years) by numerous different stats does not mean the B1G isnt a great conference.

If B1G fans would come to grips with the situation I am sure the "haters" would just let them be as the 2nd or 3rd best conference in the USA. Not really an insult. If you take Alabama out of the SEC and put them in the B1G the B1G is probably the best conference, Alabama's dominance has skewed the balance of power in a big way.

So, we're going with "Jim Harbawl", right?

Florida State with the big win. This is a huge upset and a instant classic

That was a crazy finish. Happy for my Dad, who is a Florida State alum.

Fuck Jabrill Peppers. His "injury" is something that I have a hard time buying.

All that footage of him limping in warmups was just an act?

Michigan had three close games this year and lost all of them, by a combined 5 points. Still a fine season but boy do they have a taste of being underachievers.

I don't doubt that Peppers was hurt but why would Harbaugh send the emotional leader of his team to the press box? It seems like he was trying to punish Peppers.

That was a very weird game and a very strange broadcast. Just by watching the game you would never know about all of the injuries in the FSU defensive backfield.

Nice job taking those last timeouts... sorry but I just cannot stand Harbaugh.

Would I take him at Mizzou.. HELL YES. ;)

Michigan had three close games this year and lost all of them, by a combined 5 points. Still a fine season but boy do they have a taste of being underachievers.

Or just bad luck and sample size.

Michigan had three close games this year and lost all of them, by a combined 5 points. Still a fine season but boy do they have a taste of being underachievers.

Two seasons ago they were 5-7. Harbaugh already has them within 5 points of being undefeated. Tastes a lot more like being overachievers.

Jabrill Peppers of Michigan won't play in Orange Bowl against Florida State (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18379413/jabrill-peppers-michigan-play-orange-bowl-florida-statehttp://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/18379413/jabrill-peppers-michigan-play-orange-bowl-florida-state)

"YEAH SCREW THAT GUY FOR BEING HURT I MEAN THE AUDACITY OF HIM NOT PLAYING HURT IN A MEANINGLESS GAME FOR MILLIONAIRES AND MY PERSONAL ENJOYMENT."

Oh wait..he was really hurt?

Can't watch GA Tech and Kentucky right now. For some reason the Direct TV feed for ESPN is stuck 1:30 behind the actual time of day. No reset has worked. I guess it's LSU vs Louisville for me.

On behalf of all the legitimate Heisman candiates ...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Wow. Louisville was overrated.

I know it's easy to pile on after a game like this, but Lamar Jackson hasn't impressed me at all as a QB. I think Tebow had more upside at the position than Jackson does.

Fully expect a Bama win but couldn't pass up the +440 ML on Washington. They've got just enough that they could pull the upset.

Well, there's the formula, playing out in real time. Can they sustain it?

I know it's easy to pile on after a game like this, but Lamar Jackson hasn't impressed me at all as a QB. I think Tebow had more upside at the position than Jackson does.

I think it's easy to let one game obscure what he did for the first half of the season. He's probably has no NFL future at QB, but what did for a good part of the year was insanity.

I think it's easy to let one game obscure what he did for the first half of the season. He's probably has no NFL future at QB, but what did for a good part of the year was insanity.

And what he did down the stretch revealed the reality.

See if Chris Petersen has anything in his bag of tricks.

And what he did down the stretch revealed the reality.

No denying that. But not the first Heisman winner to get the award prematurely based on a small sample size. Plus, I think Louisville uses him to do everything. When your QB is putting up RB numbers that indicates me to something is wrong with your team, not that your QB is the greatest of all-time.

Can a non-UL fan name someone on that team OTHER than Jackson?

But yeah, he got exposed big time in more than a few critical games.

I think it's easy to let one game obscure what he did for the first half of the season. He's probably has no NFL future at QB, but what did for a good part of the year was insanity.

I honestly think what he's done is what Pat White would have been able to do in a similar offense. Pat White is one of my favorite Mountaineers ever, but I'll admit he was very limited as a passer. I see the same limitations with Jackson.

Washington's D is definitely up to the task. If the offense can get 2-3 more quality drives today they've got a shot.

I think this game just ended

I don't care for this 5 split screen shit that is going on...what is this shit?

You are on the wrong ESPN channel. Turn it to the original ESPN

haha...ok, thanks for the heads up. dog on my lap and I cant move and not near the remote. I know...lame excuse, but it's all I have...

And what he did down the stretch revealed the reality.

Honestly, did something happen to Louisville's offensive line or were they always this bad? From what I saw, dude was running for his life Tecmo Bowl blitz style (yes stole that from the Stanford game yesterday) for the better part of the last three games. Not sure if there were injuries or what, but that team looked like hot garbage.

I think too many people here are writing off what Jackson did early in the year based on the late-season failures. It's not either-or; both matter. Clemson, for example, was an objectively excellent defensive team this year and had all kinds of problems with him. What happened at the end of the season doesn't negate the first part of it.

This game has had way to many holding calls being ignored. the PAC-12 needs to adjust their reffing tendency

I think too many people here are writing off what Jackson did early in the year based on the late-season failures. It's not either-or; both matter. Clemson, for example, was an objectively excellent defensive team this year and had all kinds of problems with him. What happened at the end of the season doesn't negate the first part of it.

It does say something that as teams got more and more film on what Petrino was doing with him that his numbers fell off sharply down the stretch. He gave Clemson some issues, but I'd be interested to see what he'd do going up against Clemson's defense again.

This is still a guy that completed 57% of his passes in an offense that is designed to boost a QB's completion percentage with easy short and medium passes off of the first read.

Thanks rules expert, but I'm pretty sure the referee vigorously making a five with his hand while obviously discussing with the coach whether he wants to accept the penalty means it's not roughing the kicker

I know it's easy to pile on after a game like this, but Lamar Jackson hasn't impressed me at all as a QB. I think Tebow had more upside at the position than Jackson does.

Great, we now know who will be the Browns next QB. :(

Foster should be suspended for the next game.

Washington showed up, gave it an effort. Same result most, if not all, teams would get on their best day.

Allen should be tossed as well

Foster and Allen both are playing like scumbags today. Too bad that guys that talented are that classless.

Washington showed up, gave it an effort. Same result most, if not all, teams would get on their best day.
Pretty much the result that was expected. Our OL just isn't good enough to handle an elite front 7 like that. We had our shot, but:

- Our D didn't convert on two good interception opportunities and a great chance at a fumble recovery;
- Jake made a terrible play on that pick-6 and in general was not sharp;
- OL couldn't open any holes in the run game and our backs couldn't create yards on their own;
- Our D couldn't wrap up on Scarbrough

This wasn't Washington at their best. Had they been at their best it would have been more of a game. Still, a helluva season. A year earlier than most of us figured. Now we see who sticks around and who goes pro early.

This wasn't Washington at their best. Had they been at their best it would have been more of a game.

Yeah, my phrasing may not have meant what it appeared to mean.

I was trying to say that very few teams would have gotten any different result on their best day, not whether it was UW's best day.

Bama just forcechokes the fuck outta people, it's what they do.

Yeah, my phrasing may not have meant what it appeared to mean.

I was trying to say that very few teams would have gotten any different result on their best day, not whether it was UW's best day.

Bama just forcechokes the fuck outta people, it's what they do.

It really is impressive how they can just impose their will on almost any style and skill level of offense.

It really is impressive how they can just impose their will on almost any style and skill level of offense.
Washington's offense probably isn't the best-suited to go against this 'Bama D. The OL is too green (true frosh, true soph and RS-soph in the starting five) and Browning - while mobile - isn't the kind of running threat you need against them. They were explosive this season but the Tide just didn't give Jake the time to allow Ross or Pettis to make double-moves to get open deep, and since they rarely had to blitz they could keep safety help deep. With no run game thanks to our OL getting owned, there wasn't much play-action or RPO threat to be had.

The OL should be quite good next year and in 2018, but they're not there yet. And as good as Jake has been this season, he's struggled against great defenses (USC, Colorado, Alabama).

1st quarter osu - Clemson:
1)ugh
2)weber and durbin are rattled. be nice if weber got a couple more touches and if durbin could make a damn fg
3)would also be nice if when we bring a LG in that hardly played all season and then on 3rd and 1, we DONT run the damn ball to that direction. stupid call.
4)osu defense really isn't looking bad, but at this rate, will be lucky to put up 10 pts.

Dola - our defense was good enough to give us a chance, but this was a longshot game. Washington needed to win the turnover battle by at least two and find a big-play score somehow.

Ohio State needs to stop tripping over their own dicks on offense if there's a chance to win. To be fair, they are getting some help:

<blockquote class="twitter-video" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">... easy there big guy <a href="https://t.co/1N9U2JEBEb">pic.twitter.com/1N9U2JEBEb</a></p>&mdash; CP (@_chasephelps3) <a href="https://twitter.com/_chasephelps3/status/815360656060940288">January 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

OSU clearly short of the 30, and the 1st down, but the replay booth won't even look at it even after a Clemson timeout. How can they not see that and review it? Very easy call and the cowardly replay official refuses to do his job.

I'm just about ready for football to ditch replay when the obvious calls aren't even getting looked at.

well, when Durbin missed the first FG, I texted my buddies and said good game, its over. semi sarcastically.

if Clemson scores a TD on this drive, it is GG. might go to bed.

goodnight.

Not yet hollmt.

Clemson still has to take their trademark 3rd quarter nap.

never been more upset at making four hundred

but damn, shoulda put a dime on these stupid Dabos

just money left on the ground.

State Penn would have put up a better fight.

State Penn would have put up a better fight.

I don't think you'll have the same opinion after their game tomorrow.

That went pretty much exactly as I expected minus the dropped passes, constant penalties, and missed FGs by OSU's offense. It's a weird game plan too. Still a year away...

State Penn would have put up a better fight.

Stop making silly comments :)

As HRN said...most this OSU team comes back next season. The game isn't 'over' yet, (although I think it is), but this first drive by Clemson and the follow up drive by OSU will most likely wrap that up.

Getting back to the weird game plan, Ohio State is a power running team. Period. This game plan is just bizarre, swing passes are not there. Shovel passes are not there. Barret is not a pocket passer. Get back to your team strength instead of whatever this garbage is.

Getting back to the weird game plan, Ohio State is a power running team. Period. This game plan is just bizarre, swing passes are not there. Shovel passes are not there. Barret is not a pocket passer. Get back to your team strength instead of whatever this garbage is.

Drive summary:

Power run with Barret 12 yards.
Another fucking shovel pass -3 yards. Drive over.

Terrible game planning.

I almost put money on Clemson but didn't because I almost never bet... wishing I had now.

Big Ten has a lot of good teams but no great teams.

This is illegal in like 42 states.

Can we let the winner of Bama/Clemson play the winner of USC/PSU?

Why?

Dunno about Penn State, but we've already seen what Bama can do against USC, I don't need to see that again. And based on this Clemson might be even better.

Can we let the winner of Bama/Clemson play the winner of USC/PSU?

Trying to add another shutout for them? That'd just be padding the records.

tOSU looked lost all night. Clemson was more than good enough to take advantage of that.

Bama did what they do.

Those two beaten opponents were easily the best competition available, the gap is just that damned big.

I'm not gonna argue, but I think that right now, PSU & USC are much better teams than either of the losers this afternoon, and not just because of H2H.

Congrats to CU, Butter, and any other Clemson fans here. That was a brutal ass kicking but maybe it will lead to a much needed offensive staff shake up for OSU. Beck has been a disaster since Herman left.

Next week should be a great game. I'm really looking forward to it.

I'm not gonna argue, but I think that right now, PSU & USC are much better teams than either of the losers this afternoon, and not just because of H2H.

Maybe USC with Darnold but Penn State is nowhere near Clemson or Alabama's level.

I'm not gonna argue, but I think that right now, PSU & USC are much better teams than either of the losers this afternoon, and not just because of H2H.

You're entitled to be wrong. Even if you're THAT incredibly wrong.

You're entitled to be wrong. Even if you're THAT incredibly wrong.

LOL, they did beat them both H2H. I can't be THAT wrong.

LOL, they did beat them both H2H. I can't be THAT wrong.

Penn State might have shown a little more fight than we saw from tOSU, but would have been disastrously overmatched with a similar outcome. USC would have been utterly (and possibly literally) decimated, by either.

Wow.

Never would have believed that would happen. I'm like a 40 year old kid right now.
Because of some family issues this is the first postseason Clemson football game I've missed since 95. Hate I wasn't there tonight.

Going to be a fun hectic week.

Big Ten has a lot of good teams but no great teams.

EFFIN HATER! ;)

I have not watched a lot of tOSU this year but today was the first time I have seen them look like a team that has 18 true freshmen on the two deep roster.

LOL, they did beat them both H2H. I can't be THAT wrong.

You're right on both accounts. I love how old school CFB fans talk about how every game matters until the results don't fit their preconceived notions. PSU was the best team in the B1G this year, period. They would have at least shown up tonight. USC was the best team in the Pac-12 the moment Darnold was inserted into the lineup going 8-0 with wins over both teams in the Pac-12 title game. They would have put a more competent offense on the field than Washington today.

I still think Bama and Clemson is the final with those two teams there, but the best 4 teams were not in the playoff this year.

EFFIN HATER! ;)

I have not watched a lot of tOSU this year but today was the first time I have seen them look like a team that has 18 true freshmen on the two deep roster.

Fwiw Clemson started 2 true freshman tonight on the OL.
A RS Fr won mvp at DE. A true freshman started at DT.
Looking at tOSU roster I can't match up your 18 true freshman in the 2 deep number, but I know they are young.

Every good team is young these days with the good ones being 3 and gone.

If that game is played 10 times no way Clemson gets another shutout. It's just so impossible to do against UM. Heck had it not been for two missed FGs it wouldn't have went that way tonight.

It's funny how almost any OSU fan in August would have jumped at a two loss season, but the way it played out feels disappointing.

At least Michigan got it worse.

Fwiw Clemson started 2 true freshman tonight on the OL.
A RS Fr won mvp at DE. A true freshman started at DT.
Looking at tOSU roster I can't match up your 18 true freshman in the 2 deep number, but I know they are young.

Every good team is young these days with the good ones being 3 and gone.

If that game is played 10 times no way Clemson gets another shutout. It's just so impossible to do against UM. Heck had it not been for two missed FGs it wouldn't have went that way tonight.

The 16 number was the number I heard during the day. Looks like it was 18 at the beginning of the year.

Im shocked. What was Meyer thinking? Barrett is not that good a QB to passing all night.
Was he intimidated by the Clemson DL?
That reminded me of iowa/USC in 2002. Ferentz went away fromn wghat got them to that game and an 11 win season. It was almost like he wanted his QB (Brad Banks) to outshine Carson Palmer.

Im rooting for Clemson now.

You're right on both accounts. I love how old school CFB fans talk about how every game matters until the results don't fit their preconceived notions.

I'm about as old school as they get and I've never put the farm on head to head. Old school is that + body of work + eye test.

PSU was the best team in the B1G this year, period.

Wrong. And it was a close race whether they were 2nd.

Gutty team, plays hard but with the least talent of those in the discussion.

Some thoughts on those two games:

Clemson probably needs to play like they did today and they need Alabama to play like they did against Washington to have a chance. Clemson is built better than anyone to beat them, but they still need Alabama to bring their B minus or C game.

Alabama would probably be talked about as the best team in college football history if you could plug the junior/senior version of Jalen Hurts into this team.

I don't think JT Barrett has improved since his redshirt freshman year. Unless you're a OSU fan and are dead set on going there I don't know why a QB with his sites set on the pros would play for Meyer.

Both games today were rather boring as both losers were overmatched. Washington couldn't deal with the athleticism and talent level on Alabama. Clemson is just better than OSU and Dabo and his staff outcoached Urban and his staff.

Long layoff for tOSU probably didnt help. They just looked out of it and sloppy and gave up. Not something you would really expect from an Urban Meyer team.

Very impressed with the team speed of Washington.

I'm about as old school as they get and I've never put the farm on head to head. Old school is that + body of work + eye test.



Wrong. And it was a close race whether they were 2nd.

Gutty team, plays hard but with the least talent of those in the discussion.

Beat tOSU, won their division, won the conference title game. After the tOSU win they obliterated the bad teams in the conference the way they should before beating a pretty good Wisconsin team by the same margin tOSU and UM did. They weren't the most talented, but they proved on the field that they were the best. I'll take what they did on the field over "eye test" nonsense.

It's very clear to me that I see football(like many other things) far differently. I cannot digest how someone can see a season like Clemson's with all the close games they had and see this big gulf between them and the rest. Great game by them obviously, but it's like you just ignore the fact that they were a short NC State field goal away from not even being in the playoffs. Clemson is just one example of this kind of thing, but I was rather astonished by some of the comments on here yesterday.

Michigan had three close games this year and lost all of them, by a combined 5 points. Still a fine season but boy do they have a taste of being underachievers.

It's very clear to me that I see football(like many other things) far differently. I cannot digest how someone can see a season like Clemson's with all the close games they had and see this big gulf between them and the rest. Great game by them obviously, but it's like you just ignore the fact that they were a short NC State field goal away from not even being in the playoffs. Clemson is just one example of this kind of thing, but I was rather astonished by some of the comments on here yesterday.

:confused:

It's very clear to me that I see football(like many other things) far differently. I cannot digest how someone can see a season like Clemson's with all the close games they had and see this big gulf between them and the rest. Great game by them obviously, but it's like you just ignore the fact that they were a short NC State field goal away from not even being in the playoffs. Clemson is just one example of this kind of thing, but I was rather astonished by some of the comments on here yesterday.

While I will say I never had much doubt in Clemson this year. They were stacked coming into the season and did what they had to do despite the Championship game hangover effect. I do think it is only natural for fans to think this way because of the lack of information about teams(few common matchups) and the thinking that bowl games are the most important games of the season. I think what you had with Clemson and Ohio State was Clemson is a more experienced team able to deal with the magnitude of the game yesterday while Ohio State is a very young team not able to cope with difficult situations all that well yet.

We tend to give professional teams the benefit of doubt when they throw up clunkers and dont allow college teams this same benefit(because in college structure you really arent afforded to have clunker games.)

Some thoughts on those two games:

Clemson probably needs to play like they did today and they need Alabama to play like they did against Washington to have a chance. Clemson is built better than anyone to beat them, but they still need Alabama to bring their B minus or C game.




Not to pick on you, but this is the sentiment that just drives crazy.

Last year's Bama D was better than this years. And Clemson despite 3 turnovers racked up more yards than anyone ever against a Saban coached defense. And Bama needed an onside kick, a KO return for TD and a timely pick to win. That wasnt Clemson's "a" game. This year they get to try again only this time, they WILL have their top 2 WR.

Bama is very very good. Don't mistake what I'm saying. However prior to yesterday Bama had played two offenses ranked in the top half of the country (Ole Miss and Arkansas) both scored 30 on Bama. I excluded USC because different QB, first am of session and 57 is barely top half.

Bama is very very good. Great even. But if Bamake and Clemson both play flawless next Monday night. I think Clemson wins by 10. I do think it is much more likely Bama plays flawlessly than Clemson however.

The Kiffin factor could be absolutely huge in this game.

This will start coming up in the next week or two. If nothing else, the ACC was probably the most improved conference in college football.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Updated through NYE games:<br>* ACC w/strong case as best league<br>* Look at the B12’s defenses!<br>* Bowl season ugly for B1G <a href="https://t.co/glpjHbUY3e">pic.twitter.com/glpjHbUY3e</a></p>&mdash; David Hale (@DavidHaleESPN) <a href="https://twitter.com/DavidHaleESPN/status/815613606452555776">January 1, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Last year's Bama D was better than this years.


S&P has the defenses similar while FEI has this year's Bama defense considerably better than last year's.

Both FEI and S&P have this year's bama team slightly better than last year's.

S&P has the defenses similar while FEI has this year's Bama defense considerably better than last year's.

Both FEI and S&P have this year's bama team slightly better than last year's.

Understand, but.
Last year Bama played better competition in my opinion.
Ragland, Robinson, Reed and Jones would all start this year over their replacements. That's the crux of my argument.

@ RedKingGold -- Not sure what point you were trying to make re: my quotes. Totally different situation with Clemson(7 games decided by a TD or less) and Michigan. If Clemson had lost 5(or whatever) of those games instead of one, I'd be calling them underachievers too. How someone could have very little doubt in such a team(and they deserve considerable credit for winning those games) is quite literally beyond my ability to comprehend.

Understand, but.
Last year Bama played better competition in my opinion.
Ragland, Robinson, Reed and Jones would all start this year over their replacements. That's the crux of my argument.

I have heard it suggested Bama's front 7 this year might be the best ever.

I haven't seen much to dissuade that opinion either.

Not saying anything about what I expect from the champ game, but those numbers and these opinions run contrary to your thinking on last year versus this year.

It's kind of sad to see the four letter network pitching this nonsense about the redemption of State Penn as a program because they're winning this year. Lets not forget the caliber of character that their current coach recruited to Vandy. So far there have been rape convictions stemming from a gang rape and now there is a sex trafficking case being pursued. I'm sure we won't see those things a State Penn anytime soon as they actively hide them.

James Franklin is exactly the kind of person that State Penn likes to put in charge of their football program and proof that nothing has really changed.

Wow. Kiffin out and Sark in as OC before the championship game. I guess Saban really doesn't like Kiffin at all.

It's kind of sad to see the four letter network pitching this nonsense about the redemption of State Penn as a program because they're winning this year. Lets not forget the caliber of character that their current coach recruited to Vandy. So far there have been rape convictions stemming from a gang rape and now there is a sex trafficking case being pursued. I'm sure we won't see those things a State Penn anytime soon as they actively hide them.

James Franklin is exactly the kind of person that State Penn likes to put in charge of their football program and proof that nothing has really changed.

Isn't it Penn State?

Go Hawks!!

Isn't it Penn State?

1. They knowingly allowed decades of pedophilia.
2. The fans/former players complained about unfair treatment surrounding the punishment for allowing decades of pedophilia.
3. They then hired a coach who, at the time of the hire, had players who had been kicked out of school for gang rape with video showing the players dragging the unconscious girl down the hallway by her hair. Those same players had posted on social media showing the rape and showing themselves urinating on the face of the unconscious girl.
4. One of those players is now up on sex trafficking charges.
5. That coach knowingly tried to interfere with the investigation into his players by contacting the victim.
6. The university, 5 years after after everything went down, honored the memory of the coach who allowed pedophilia to go on for 33 years under his watch.

I would say State Penn fits.

Wisconsin seems to be manhandling Western Michigan, as I was pretty much expecting.

1. They knowingly allowed decades of pedophilia.
2. The fans/former players complained about unfair treatment surrounding the punishment for allowing decades of pedophilia.
3. They then hired a coach who, at the time of the hire, had players who had been kicked out of school for gang rape with video showing the players dragging the unconscious girl down the hallway by her hair. Those same players had posted on social media showing the rape and showing themselves urinating on the face of the unconscious girl.
4. One of those players is now up on sex trafficking charges.
5. That coach knowingly tried to interfere with the investigation into his players by contacting the victim.
6. The university, 5 years after after everything went down, honored the memory of the coach who allowed pedophilia to go on for 33 years under his watch.

I would say State Penn fits.

While I hear your point, the way you did it was annoying and overkill, IMO. It detracts from your message to say petty stuff like that.

Want defense (or bad offense)? Watch the Outback.
Iowa is laying lumber.

3-3 at the end of one.

I hate watching offenses like Western Michigan's. The no huddle so the defense can't sub, sit on the ball so the OC can read the defense for the QB, and the QB keep looking over for a play change is just irritating football to watch.

Shoot. Iowa gives up a TD.

That will be the game. No way Iowa comes back from a 10-3 deficit.