Probably a good time for this with the ND news brewing, plus Kragthorpe getting the can.

I would love to see Louisville get Tuberville but I am not sure if he'd take the job. Seems like an ideal fit though. That opening intrigues me a great deal because they seem willing to spend money to improve themselves.

Then obviously there are a lot of rumors about Big Game Bob interviewing with Notre Dame as soon as tomorrow, so a lot of stuff will be kicking it up a notch.

Rumor that Fulmer might be in line for the Louisville job, not sure whether that's instead of Tuberville or as a backup plan.

Then obviously there are a lot of rumors about Big Game Bob interviewing with Notre Dame as soon as tomorrow, so a lot of stuff will be kicking it up a notch.

Apparently, Stoops told a local reporter by text message that he is not interviewing and the ND rumors are false.

Apparently, Stoops told a local reporter by text message that he is not interviewing and the ND rumors are false.

I doubt Stoops goes to ND, but it wouldn't shock me. I think it's safe to say that at this time of the year it's hard to take anything a coach says as gospel though.

Apparently, Stoops told a local reporter by text message that he is not interviewing and the ND rumors are false.

I'll believe statements like these when a coach ends up actually telling the truth.

I'm surprised Houston Nutt hasn't come out and withdrawn his name for consideration at Notre Dame.

I'll believe statements like these when a coach ends up actually telling the truth.

Oh, I agree - just passing along the info. Frankly, I've always hated how Stoops never directly addresses other job issues when they come up, and they seem to about every year with him. It'd be nice to hear a statement such as the one Meyer gave last week.

So what jobs are even coming open?

Colorado and Illinois are both going to retain Hawkins and Zook, or so they have said at this point, so it won't be those schools.

In the ACC there is Virginia which seems like a given. FSU I guess could come open but no way they'd dump Fisher if Bowden "steps down" so that doesn't really count.

In the Big East, Louisville is obviously open, and it seems like that'll be it off the top of my head.

In the Big 12, Kansas seems like it'll open up, but that's it as of right now.

In the Big 10, Indiana maybe, but I am not sure. That's about it if Zook is retained.

In the Pac 10, I really don't see anyone going at this point.

In the SEC, again, don't see anything major.

Then obviously ND.

Is that a safe assessment at this point from the BCS conferences?

I honestly don't see any big name coach taking the ND job. Between the retarded expectations from the alumni who doesn't realize it isn't 1965 anymore and the fact that every established coach knows he won't get enough players academically eligible there really is no incentive to take the job.

So what jobs are even coming open?

Colorado and Illinois are both going to retain Hawkins and Zook, or so they have said at this point, so it won't be those schools.

In the ACC there is Virginia which seems like a given. FSU I guess could come open but no way they'd dump Fisher if Bowden "steps down" so that doesn't really count.

In the Big East, Louisville is obviously open, and it seems like that'll be it off the top of my head.

In the Big 12, Kansas seems like it'll open up, but that's it as of right now.

In the Big 10, Indiana maybe, but I am not sure. That's about it if Zook is retained.

In the Pac 10, I really don't see anyone going at this point.

In the SEC, again, don't see anything major.

Then obviously ND.

Is that a safe assessment at this point from the BCS conferences?

That's about it. Maryland and FSU could make moves, especially considering Bowden's comments after the game, but both also have coaches in waiting.

I'm interested to see who Virginia gets because their hiring expectations are always a tad ridiculous.

I honestly don't see any big name coach taking the ND job. Between the retarded expectations from the alumni who doesn't realize it isn't 1965 anymore and the fact that every established coach knows he won't get enough players academically eligible there really is no incentive to take the job.

If, and it's a big if, but if Brian Kelly passes a background test, he'll be the guy I think. It could be an epic win or an epic fail, I see no middle ground. Very similar to RichRod though the biggest difference is his offense will be easy to put in place (a huge advantage obviously) but both have nearly identical resumes, both have skeletons in their closet (Kelly's are much worse if rumors are true) and both will have a ton of run ins with the media.

Rumor has it Kwhitt from Utah has been getting calls from schools to where he may move on because it's a step up from Utah.

I don't think he will leave but when a ton of money is thrown into the mix anything can happen.

I thought I read Kelly turned the job down already. But I was pretty hammered last night and maybe I dreamed it.

Oh, I agree - just passing along the info. Frankly, I've always hated how Stoops never directly addresses other job issues when they come up, and they seem to about every year with him. It'd be nice to hear a statement such as the one Meyer gave last week.

There just seems to be a bit too much smoke for there to be no interest at all. I'd still be really surprised to see him leave OU, but I also think when Notre Dame comes knocking just about every coach is going to listen (and then run to the athletic department and use it as leverage for a raise).

I thought I read Kelly turned the job down already. But I was pretty hammered last night and maybe I dreamed it.

I posted that based off what a friend read on one of the ND boards. Their was a report on there that Bill Belicheck had taken the job after Kelly turned it down. Lots of rumors out there, it will be interesting to see how it plays out this week.

I thought I read Kelly turned the job down already. But I was pretty hammered last night and maybe I dreamed it.

That's not what I've heard. I've heard they'll make a serious run at Stoops and then Kelly is next in line.

I posted that based off what a friend read on one of the ND boards. Their was a report on there that Bill Belicheck had taken the job after Kelly turned it down. Lots of rumors out there, it will be interesting to see how it plays out this week.

OK, glad to know I'm not crazy. I wonder if that also means I got a hand job from Elisha Cuthbert?

So what jobs are even coming open?
Colorado and Illinois are both going to retain Hawkins and Zook, or so they have said at this point, so it won't be those schools.
In the ACC there is Virginia which seems like a given. FSU I guess could come open but no way they'd dump Fisher if Bowden "steps down" so that doesn't really count.
In the Big East, Louisville is obviously open, and it seems like that'll be it off the top of my head.
In the Big 12, Kansas seems like it'll open up, but that's it as of right now.
In the Big 10, Indiana maybe, but I am not sure. That's about it if Zook is retained.
In the Pac 10, I really don't see anyone going at this point.
In the SEC, again, don't see anything major.
Then obviously ND.
Is that a safe assessment at this point from the BCS conferences?

-- Kentucky might come open if Brooks decides it's time to retire but Joker Phillips is C-in-W there already.
-- CMR at Georgia probably had a small chance of falling on his sword over Willie Martinez but after tonight I don't see that happening, whereas if they had lost to GT again I think the AD might have let Richt leave.
-- Another wildcard sorta longshot would be if Spurrier decides it time to play golf full time instead of part-time.

I don't see how Maryland can possibly retain Friedgen, but I heard that they just had to cut something like $100-million on the academic side of things, so they are afraid of whatever backlash there might be if they buy the Fridge out.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Leach move on and open Texas Tech up. Not sure about Texas A&M.

The Big East's current coaching lineup has 5-6 coaches (out of 8 teams) that probably have jobs for life, if they are willing. Schiano, Edsall, and Leavitt are all the most successful coaches in their team's histories. Kelly is obviously a star. Stewart and Wannstache each seem to be secure, unless they revert back to winning 4 or 5 games per year for a few years in a row.

I'm interested to see who Virginia gets because their hiring expectations are always a tad ridiculous.

One of the more reliable insiders on scout seems to think that Chris Peterson and Virginia already have an agreement in place. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, as Peterson is a West Coast guy with no recruiting ties to the area, but he has obviously been very successful so far.

Mike London, the HC of Richmond (who won the FCS title last year), has been frequently mentioned, as well.

Rumor has it Kwhitt from Utah has been getting calls from schools to where he may move on because it's a step up from Utah.

I don't think he will leave but when a ton of money is thrown into the mix anything can happen.
I was dearly hoping the UW would throw $3.5M per year at him last year and see if he had the stones to say "no" to that. Not that I'm unhappy with Sarkisian, but I think Whittingham is a hell of a coach and obviously far more proven.

I'm hearing a lot of stuff about Stoops to ND now.

I think this a just a Stoops money grab.
I just dont see his personality fitting there.

I'm hearing a lot of stuff about Stoops to ND now.


from a premium ND board supposably:



As mentioned before, most universities hire an outside consultant to look at a number of candidates and use back channels to communicate about coaching positions. In this day and age, obviously information needs to be kept confidential when peoples’ jobs



So, when Bob Stoops says he hasn’t talked to Notre Dame, he’s telling the truth. When Jack Swarbrick says he hasn’t talked to any coaches, he’s telling the truth. A middle man (lack of a better term) handles these things confidentially.



What I have heard from five different sources is that the Stoop’s party has agreed verbally to most of the contract between the two parties and is just waiting to get the final word on if his financial demands are going to be met by Notre Dame.



I was told Weis will be let go early this week and if all goes through with Stoops, he’ll be announced as head coach late this week.



I’m not citing my sources obviously or naming the middle man as I don’t want to screw anything up here if this information is all correct. These things can fall through and as I said, I’m going from sources here, but there is a lot of fire here, not just smoke. I will say that the sources go from the Oklahoma side, to the Notre Dame side and to neutral parties.



So, at this point all the information I am getting is that once the contract has ink on it, Bob Stoops will be the next coach at Notre Dame. The last step is monetary from what I have been told.



I have also been told that Brian Kelly is not an option at all, period.


And later on:

Ok, now a ND insider who has literally never been wrong just confirmed on the RB


Take it for what it's worth.

One of the more reliable insiders on scout seems to think that Chris Peterson and Virginia already have an agreement in place. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me, as Peterson is a West Coast guy with no recruiting ties to the area, but he has obviously been very successful so far.

Mike London, the HC of Richmond (who won the FCS title last year), has been frequently mentioned, as well.

Any word on Al Golden getting consideration? Seems like a perfect fit.

Especially since Golden was an assistant under Groh.

I wonder about Stoops at ND. I think he's a good coach and he has more openings to the rest of the US there, but a lot of his talent now is Oklahoma and Texas kids, and as prestigious as ND is, you don't get that many elite Southern talents to head North.

I dont see why Stoops would leave. Surely, money isnt that important.
Stoops is THE MAN in Oklahoma. He can do whatever he pleases. He wont leave that.

Ferentz will be at Iowa at least 7 more seasons. He has a son redshirting at Iowa and another son still in High School.

Was there any speculation at all in this thread about Ferentz/Iowa?

Al Groh is out:
http://www.c-ville.com/index.php?cat=1991009093340154&act=post&pid=12462911094502624

Speculation about who might replace Groh is rampant, and the leading candidates appear to be: Mike London, Al Golden, Tommy Tuberville, Charlie Strong, Derek Dooley, Chris Peterson, and Jon Tenuta.

Was there any speculation at all in this thread about Ferentz/Iowa?

Early on there was the Ferentz to ND talk. It has died down obviously.
I was just pointing out the reasons Ferentz should be left out of any Ferentz to....... talk.

Marshall's Mark Snyder is out.

Marshall's Mark Snyder is out.

Financially, that school is in a lot of trouble. I'm interested to see who takes the job.

I don't see how Maryland can possibly retain Friedgen, but I heard that they just had to cut something like $100-million on the academic side of things, so they are afraid of whatever backlash there might be if they buy the Fridge out.

I've heard budget concerns with firing Friedgen, too, something that the governor of MD is resisting it (think I read it in the Post this week?). Also read that if they do fire Fridge, there's no guarantee they'll go to the coach in waiting, though there's more cost if they don't make the coach in waiting the coach before 2011 or something.

/tk

Financially, that school is in a lot of trouble. I'm interested to see who takes the job.

I hope it isn't Terry Bowden.

Washington Post says Groh's out. Virginia to fire Al Groh as head football coach - washingtonpost.com (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/11/29/AR2009112901292.html)

/tk

I hope it isn't Terry Bowden.

Kragthorpe has reportedly contacted the school about the opening. I've heard Paul Petrino's name and I've also seen it confirmed by someone that would know that Bob Pruett is a possibility as a fallback option.

Butch Jones has been mentioned, but unless I'm mistaken, he'd actually be taking a paycut to go there so I don't see it happening.

I don't think they'd take Terry.

Considering the mess Pruett left that program in I'm always amazed at how fondly he's remembered there and that they'd even consider bringing him back.

I've heard budget concerns with firing Friedgen, too, something that the governor of MD is resisting it (think I read it in the Post this week?). Also read that if they do fire Fridge, there's no guarantee they'll go to the coach in waiting, though there's more cost if they don't make the coach in waiting the coach before 2011 or something.

/tk

Yeah -- I have never really thought much of the coach-in-waiting concept, but it really made no sense for Maryland. James Franklin was not really a coach in high demand -- no BCS conference team was in danger of making him a head coach, so it isn't like they couldn't have hired him back away from Ball State or Directional Michigan if he took another job, and, even if they couldn't get him back, Fridge has been pretty subpar since his first three years at Maryland, so it isn't like it is vital to have continuity there.

That was just a strange, strange move by Maryland's AD.

Kragthorpe has reportedly contacted the school about the opening. I've heard Paul Petrino's name and I've also seen it confirmed by someone that would know that Bob Pruett is a possibility as a fallback option.

Butch Jones has been mentioned, but unless I'm mistaken, he'd actually be taking a paycut to go there so I don't see it happening.

I don't think they'd take Terry.

Considering the mess Pruett left that program in I'm always amazed at how fondly he's remembered there and that they'd even consider bringing him back.

It doesn't make much sense for Butch Jones to take a job there. He has things running smoothly at CMU and is in line for a BCS job soon, I'd imagine (maybe Cincy if Kelly leaves?). It would be pretty risky to take on a complete rebuild job like the one Marshall will require.

Kragthorpe would probably be a decent choice for both sides.

I'd love to know what Bowden did at Auburn that knocked him out of coaching for 10+ years and prevents him from getting a job in the MAC/CUSA/Sun Belt.

Pruett has to be close to 70 and should probably be banned by the NCAA for the crap he was doing there before. I don't really want Marshall to become a Boise State or Utah, but I don't want them to turn into total crap, either.

Former FCS power Georgia Southern snags GT assistant. Great hire, IMO. Best of luck to Monken.

Jeff Monken has accepted the offer to become the eighth head coach of Georgia Southern in the modern era.

A long-time assistant under former GSU coach Paul Johnson, Monken is the slot backs coach and special-teams coordinator for the Georgia Tech Yellow Jackets. He was the slot backs coach at Navy all six years under Johnson, adding special-teams coordinator to his resume in 2005.

Monken served as the slotbacks coach at GSU until 2001, when the Eagles’ offense led the nation in rushing (323.6) yards per game under Johnson. The rushing offense also led the nation in 1999 with 419 yards per contest.

I dont see why Stoops would leave. Surely, money isnt that important.
Stoops is THE MAN in Oklahoma. He can do whatever he pleases. He wont leave that.

I may end up being wrong, of course. But I'm right there with you. As I've said plenty of times, I don't see Stoops to ND at all.

And as for unconfirmed, mystery sources, a reliable poster on the OU rivals board, who claims to have sources within the program and is often right on things well ahead of time, says Stoops has absolutely no interest in ND.

Personally as a ND fan for over 30 years I hope they don't pick Stoops. Ever since Boise State Petersen owned him in that Bowl game I never could trust the guys coaching ability at least in game strategy.

No way Stoops is heading to ND for all the reasons above. About as likely as Belicheck taking the job.

At least ND is doing it right this time. No sense in firing Weis until you know that you've got a better option lined up. At least with Charlie he's got a good class coming in and a better chance of convincing Clausen/Tate to stay.

Regarding Stoops and Notre Dame, I think you'll find every football program has perverted sense of expectations. If Stoops has another 6-6 season next year, those boosters there will be calling for his head. Heck, KU folk around here are talking about Tuberville and Fulmer being on the top of the KU list. I'm not sure KU is on the top of their lists, though.

As for the why would Stoops go to Notre Dame, do we need a better answer than ego? They'll gladly make him the highest paid coach in college football history and if he went to Notre Dame and did what he's done at OU, they'd put his face on the side of the Vatican.

What's the word with Rodriguez and Michigan? I've heard a lot of speculation that now is the time to cut bait and go get Harbaugh.

Regarding Stoops and Notre Dame, I think you'll find every football program has perverted sense of expectations. If Stoops has another 6-6 season next year, those boosters there will be calling for his head. Heck, KU folk around here are talking about Tuberville and Fulmer being on the top of the KU list. I'm not sure KU is on the top of their lists, though.

As for the why would Stoops go to Notre Dame, do we need a better answer than ego? They'll gladly make him the highest paid coach in college football history and if he went to Notre Dame and did what he's done at OU, they'd put his face on the side of the Vatican.

What's the word with Rodriguez and Michigan? I've heard a lot of speculation that now is the time to cut bait and go get Harbaugh.

He's not going anywhere. The current AD is retiring in September and a new one hasn't even been named yet. No way they hire a new coach before a new AD is set to take over.

Former FCS power Georgia Southern snags GT assistant. Great hire, IMO. Best of luck to Monken.

Yup. Good luck to Monken. Johnson said he is planning for Monken to coach through the bowl game and split duties as appropriate.

Actually, most Kansas fans I know are hoping for Gary Patterson at TCU though we acknowledge KU isn't a step up by any means. Patterson is from Kansas so he might be interested in being closer to his parents who still live in the state.

Kansas does have a few things in their corner. They have invested a lot of money into new facilities and they have an athletic director who isn't afraid to open his checkbook for coaches' salaries (Mangino is currently one of the 25 highest paid college football coaches in the country). The problem for Kansas is that you're going to have to recruit outside the state because the state of Kansas doesn't have a lot of D1A talent. That means getting the scraps from Texas and Oklahoma in the Big 12 region.

As for Tuberville, I'd love it if he were interested in Kansas. I would hope Kansas at least calls him to see if there was interest. Skip Holtz and Turner Gill are two names being thrown out. Holtz has ties to the current KU athletic director and Turner Gill has ties to KU (daughter) and the Big 12 region (played at Nebraska and born in Texas). Of course Kansas still has a coach in the office, but I can't imagine he stays after this season.

Regarding Stoops and Notre Dame, I think you'll find every football program has perverted sense of expectations. If Stoops has another 6-6 season next year, those boosters there will be calling for his head. Heck, KU folk around here are talking about Tuberville and Fulmer being on the top of the KU list. I'm not sure KU is on the top of their lists, though.

Skip Holtz walked away from Kansas AD Lew Perkins at Connecticut to take a coordinator job with his father at South Carolina. What he left at UConn was worse then what you'd have in an empty cupboard FOF career.

He did a decent job over his 5 seasons and got to a 1-AA quarterfinal where they got destroyed by Georgia Southern. That team was set up for one run, he made it and then he disappeared. Maybe he'd be successful at an ACC program with low expectations but I wouldn't expect huge things if he got the Kansas job.

Buffalo didn't beat a team that even finished .500 this year. Turner Gill's best win this year is either 5-7 Kent State or 4-8 UTEP.

I'm not a huge Skip Holtz fan either, but his was one of the names mentioned due to his connections with the Kansas athletic department.

Turner Gill has definitely struggled at Buffalo this season and he's not high on my list either, but we have to understand that he inherited a mess at Buffalo and his recruiting connections in Texas haven't necessarily helped him in Buffalo for obvious reasons. I still think he's a few seasons away from a BCS job, but his name is being thrown out because of his daughter attending college at KU and his ties to the conference.

Skip Holtz walked away from Kansas AD Lew Perkins at Connecticut to take a coordinator job with his father at South Carolina. What he left at UConn was worse then what you'd have in an empty cupboard FOF career.

He did a decent job over his 5 seasons and got to a 1-AA quarterfinal where they got destroyed by Georgia Southern. That team was set up for one run, he made it and then he disappeared. Maybe he'd be successful at an ACC program with low expectations but I wouldn't expect huge things if he got the Kansas job.

Pruett has to be close to 70 and should probably be banned by the NCAA for the crap he was doing there before. I don't really want Marshall to become a Boise State or Utah, but I don't want them to turn into total crap, either.

Marshall insiders are saying it's Pruett's job if he's up for it. I can't see it ending in anything other than disaster.

I think this a just a Stoops money grab.

I think so too. I think he and Meyer are both going to get million dollar raises and extensions out of ND being open.

I think Meyer is going to love ND being unstable coaching wise - its going to make him a lot of money as he coaches Florida for the next 20 years.

Charlie Weis is officially gone:

Notre Dame Official Athletic Site (http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/113009aac.html)

Apparently Stoops issued a statement saying he's staying at OU.

Dang. I was hoping Weis could stick around for another year of mediocrity.

Yep, from the Tulsa World:

NORMAN — Notre Dame needs a football coach. There is a popular Internet-driven opinion the Irish are going to find one in Norman, Oklahoma. There is just one problem, however.

Bob Stoops isn’t leaving the job he already has.

“I fully intend to be at Oklahoma for a long while,” he declared Monday afternoon.

The Internet- and Chicago-based reports he was interested in Notre Dame?

“I can’t help what’s said,” Stoops replied. “But I couldn’t be more excited and pleased with what we’re doing here and what the future holds...

“I intend to be at Oklahoma. I will never confirm or deny things I talk to with anybody. And I won’t be interviewing for any jobs.”

This afternoon, an angry Nick Saban denied having any interest in coaching the Golden Domes.

Kelly was on ESPN and sounded interested in the job. He definitely didn't shoot down any rumors.

Apparently Stoops issued a statement saying he's staying at OU.

Thank fucking god don't want 'em.

Kelly was on ESPN and sounded interested in the job. He definitely didn't shoot down any rumors.

I am calling it now Gary Patterson will be the new ND guy;)

I hope they hire Godzilla Blitz.

Charlie Weis is officially gone:

Notre Dame Official Athletic Site (http://www.und.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/113009aac.html)

As much as I can't stand Notre Dame, I think this is a dumb move. Weis has recruited talent and has the program on the upswing. Are they performing like the Irish of before? No, but that's unrealistic. This is a different time. If Weis could convince Clausen and Tate to stay, they would have a chance to make a run next year. With Weis gone, looks like the Irish will take a few steps back once again after everyone is enamored with a coach winning with the previous coach's players.

Now, can Weis move a few hours west and get on Lovie's staff in Chicago? He needs some OC help BAD.

“I fully intend to be at Oklahoma for a long while,” he declared Monday afternoon.

“I intend to be at Oklahoma.”

This is exactly the kind of language that coaches who want to leave a door open use. "I intend" gives them an out when they leave shortly after issuing such a proclamation.

Not that I have any particular reason to think Stoops is a liar, but the Sabans and Petrinos of the world have essentially made all college coaches denying interest in job X completely unbelievable.

I'll believe Stoops is staying at UO when ND hires someone else or Stoops signs his new deal there. Until then, all these denials sound just like the others that were lies.

This is exactly the kind of language that coaches who want to leave a door open use. "I intend" gives them an out when they leave shortly after issuing such a proclamation.

Not that I have any particular reason to think Stoops is a liar, but the Sabans and Petrinos of the world have essentially made all college coaches denying interest in job X completely unbelievable.

I'll believe Stoops is staying at UO when ND hires someone else or Stoops signs his new deal there. Until then, all these denials sound just like the others that were lies.

Well, it was a bit less squirrly than the other article made it sound:

""I'm going to be at Oklahoma next year," he said. "If (athletic director) Joe (Castiglione) will have me and President (David) Boren, that's what I intend to do."

I don't think he's going anywhere, and if he does, I doubt it would be Notre Dame.

I hope they hire Godzilla Blitz.

+1

This is exactly the kind of language that coaches who want to leave a door open use. "I intend" gives them an out when they leave shortly after issuing such a proclamation.

Not that I have any particular reason to think Stoops is a liar, but the Sabans and Petrinos of the world have essentially made all college coaches denying interest in job X completely unbelievable.

I'll believe Stoops is staying at UO when ND hires someone else or Stoops signs his new deal there. Until then, all these denials sound just like the others that were lies.

I actually agree with you. It really frustrates me that he can't just come out and say one way or another in plain, definitive language. I understand not doing so earlier, as that could've been perceived as disrespectful to another coach. But once the job is officially open, say with certainty or don't say anything at all.

I've said all along that I don't think he'll go. In fact, I just wouldn't be able to comprehend that move. But if he did, I would wish him well but certainly be disappointed. He's a great coach, and anyone would have to be nuts not to want him.

Per FootballCoachScoop.com, Kansas is in talks with former Tennessee coach Phillip Fulmer. Other coaches that KU is interested in per their source are TCU's Gary Patterson, Houston's Kevin Sumlin, Oklahoma's defensive coordinator Brent Venerables, Central Michigan's Butch Jones, Buffalo's Turner Gill, Stanford's Jim Harbaugh, and Boise State's Chris Peterson.

I honestly don't know how reliable the site is so I don't know how serious to take it. I would be pleasantly surprised if Fulmer was interested. Patterson is still tops on my list.

Per FootballCoachScoop.com, Kansas is in talks with former Tennessee coach Phillip Fulmer. Other coaches that KU is interested in per their source are TCU's Gary Patterson, Houston's Kevin Sumlin, Oklahoma's defensive coordinator Brent Venerables, Central Michigan's Butch Jones, Buffalo's Turner Gill, Stanford's Jim Harbaugh, and Boise State's Chris Peterson.

I honestly don't know how reliable the site is so I don't know how serious to take it. I would be pleasantly surprised if Fulmer was interested. Patterson is still tops on my list.


That site hasn't hit on a damn thing as far as I've seen. I really think it relies heavily on fans submitting what they read on sites like scout and rivals for their info. Those sites can be good sources of info, but you really have to read the sites and know who knows their shit to come away with anything more than standard message board rumors.

I honestly don't know how reliable the site is so I don't know how serious to take it. I would be pleasantly surprised if Fulmer was interested. Patterson is still tops on my list.
Patterson would be tops on mine too, but good luck with that - he's got a real good thing going at TCU. I suppose his ties to the state might help, but I doubt he's going to leave TCU for Kansas.

I'm also amused to see Harbaugh listed - why exactly would he leave Stanford for Kansas?

Fulmer, Sumlin, Jones, Venables & Gill would seem to be the most realistic options on that list.

That's what I was wondering. I have no idea where they get their information and was surprised to see Fulmer listed as being interested in the Kansas job.

That site hasn't hit on a damn thing as far as I've seen. I really think it relies heavily on fans submitting what they read on sites like scout and rivals for their info. Those sites can be good sources of info, but you really have to read the sites and know who knows their shit to come away with anything more than standard message board rumors.

Patterson's family still lives in Kansas and the rumors have been swirling since last year when the KSU job opened up that he was interested in being closer to his parents. I don't know if those rumors are true, but if they are it could definitely make Kansas a job he may covet. It would also make for an easy transition for him since he already recruits the Big 12 region. I really hope he's interested, but the guy has a great job at TCU so I'm not too confident in landing him.

I don't know that the article mentioned he was interested in Kansas. Those other coaches named were all ones that Kansas was interested in. Doesn't mean those coaches were interested in Kansas.

Patterson would be tops on mine too, but good luck with that - he's got a real good thing going at TCU. I suppose his ties to the state might help, but I doubt he's going to leave TCU for Kansas.

I'm also amused to see Harbaugh listed - why exactly would he leave Stanford for Kansas?

Fulmer, Sumlin, Jones, Venables & Gill would seem to be the most realistic options on that list.

I saw a Fulmer to UVA rumor somewhere today. I can't think of a worse match as far as school and coach goes. I don't think Fulmer would make a full season there.

ESPN reporting Bowden is retiring.

I don't know that the article mentioned he was interested in Kansas. Those other coaches named were all ones that Kansas was interested in. Doesn't mean those coaches were interested in Kansas.
Sure. I'm just saying that such speculation is next to worthless. May as well say Kansas is interested in Jeff Tedford or Mike Riley. I'm sure Kansas would love to have all of those guys, but the chances are slim to none that they'd get them.

As much as I can't stand Notre Dame, I think this is a dumb move. Weis has recruited talent and has the program on the upswing. Are they performing like the Irish of before? No, but that's unrealistic. This is a different time. If Weis could convince Clausen and Tate to stay, they would have a chance to make a run next year.I don't want to turn this into a(nother) referendum on Weis' tenure and the ND program, but suffice it to say that the 4-game losing streak cemented that Weis was not the right fit. While he has been phenomenal at recruiting and gameplanning on offense the defense has shown no signs of improvement despite decent talent and multiple respected coordinators there, and the close losses aren't an aberration. They're also not particularly unlucky in those because there were a number of close wins as well. Saying they had a chance to make a run next year is true, but they had a chance this year and ended 6-6. With Weis it was pretty much a guarantee they'd lose 2-3 close games they shouldn't next year too.Kelly was on ESPN and sounded interested in the job. He definitely didn't shoot down any rumors.Kelly's been my A choice as a coach, but there are the constant rumblings and talk of skeletons in the closet with him. A lot seems to be sour grapes from Michigan/MSU fans and the assumption that there must be some if he wasn't hired at a more prestigious job yet. The concrete stuff I've found is that he's an egotistical asshole (who cares - most good coaches are) and saying the (African-American) players on CMU who beat the kid to death were from "a culture of violence" or some such. He also campaigned with John Kerry (aka pro-choice Democrat - which would be a retarded qualification for a football coach but after the Obama issue at ND there is clearly a segment of the alumni that do care strongly) and he may have paid for/encouraged someone he knocked up (a student?) to get an abortion. Anything I'm missing here?

I'm totally clueless here, but what are the rumors about Brian Kelly?

Not necessarily. Stanford is a good football program, but they aren't paying Harbaugh what he could get at Kansas. Is money everything? Certainly not. But I wouldn't be surprised if Harbaugh uses any BCS level interest as a means to bump up his pay at Stanford or another school.

Sure. I'm just saying that such speculation is next to worthless. May as well say Kansas is interested in Jeff Tedford or Mike Riley. I'm sure Kansas would love to have all of those guys, but the chances are slim to none that they'd get them.

I'm totally clueless here, but what are the rumors about Brian Kelly?

If you're asking about the skeletons in his closet, the story as I remember it is shortly after getting hired at CMU some players on the football team got into a big fight. Then they refused to cooperate with the police and Kelly stated something along the lines of kids that grow up in poor african-american communities come from a culture where they're taught not to trust the police. He was immediately ripped in the papers for making racially insensitive remarks and later apologized.

That's the big one. I think there may have been a couple other minor incidents while he was there as well, but I don't remember any specifics.

Well Kelly is a 'liberal' Catholic for one.

Also from Dennis Dodd cbssportsline.com:

Specifically, if Brian Kelly is truly the No. 1 candidate to replace Weis, will the Cincinnati coach be able to get past comments he made to the Detroit Free Press four years ago?

At the time, five of his players had been charged with second-degree murder in the beating death of a man outside a Mount Pleasant, Mich. Bar in June 2004. Although he inherited the players, the crime occurred on Kelly's watch at Central Michigan. He had been hired as the Chippewas' coach before the 2004 season.

These are Kelly's comments after perjury charges were made against the players.

"A number of them were African Americans that had been in that culture of violence, and they're taught to look away," Kelly was quoted in the Free Press as saying. "You don't want anything to do with it. Get out of there. You don't say anything to anybody."

Kelly was admonished for the remarks by then-Central Michigan president Michael Rao and later apologized.

"I am appalled and offended at the obvious lack of forethought and sensitivity these remarks ... connote," Rao said in a statement at the time. "Coach Kelly expressed his deep regret to me ..."

ESPN reporting Bowden is retiring.

Joe out lasted the old coot!

If you're asking about the skeletons in his closet, the story as I remember it is shortly after getting hired at CMU some players on the football team got into a big fight. Then they refused to cooperate with the police and Kelly stated something along the lines of kids that grow up in poor african-american communities come from a culture where they're taught not to trust the police. He was immediately ripped in the papers for making racially insensitive remarks and later apologized.

That's the big one. I think there may have been a couple other minor incidents while he was there as well, but I don't remember any specifics.
This is all I'm aware of, and I find it ridiculous that this might be considered a "skeleton" in his closet. While he should've known better than to make a statement like that due to the incredibly sensitive nature of race relations in this country, the statement contained a lot of truth.

If this is all that's supposedly holding him back from premiere jobs, then the AD's in question are idiots.

Not necessarily. Stanford is a good football program, but they aren't paying Harbaugh what he could get at Kansas. Is money everything? Certainly not. But I wouldn't be surprised if Harbaugh uses any BCS level interest as a means to bump up his pay at Stanford or another school.
I have my doubts about that. Stanford is a private institution, so getting true financial figures on coaches salaries there is difficult, but he reportedly agreed to an extension last year for $1.25M per season that was put on hold due to the economic climate. Given his current status, I'd be shocked if that salary figure wasn't bumped up closer to or above $2M per season and approved. Stanford knows Harbaugh is hot property right now, and they don't want to lose him. The University itself has a huge endowment, and after building the new stadium on campus I don't think the AD is going to let him walk away due to salary considerations unless another school offers him silly money.

And aside from all that, Harbaugh is proving that he can win at Stanford, no mean feat. He's recruiting quite well according to the various online sites and his success on the field is crystal clear. He'll have a hard time replacing Gerhart, but Luck is only going to get better and as long as he can build strong, tough offensive lines, his offense will roll. His main challenge is to build a defense that rivals his offense.

My point being, I think he can accomplish at Stanford everything he could accomplish at Kansas, and to boot, he appears to relish the idea of succeeding at a University that holds themselves to higher academic standards than just about any other in FBS football.

How much are you figuring Kansas is going to spend on a new coach anyway?

Joe out lasted the old coot!
Maybe that will be the impetus for Joe to finally retire too. Seems pretty clear he was sticking around to retain his status of having the most coaching wins in FBS history.

This is all I'm aware of, and I find it ridiculous that this might be considered a "skeleton" in his closet. While he should've known better than to make a statement like that due to the incredibly sensitive nature of race relations in this country, the statement contained a lot of truth.

If this is all that's supposedly holding him back from premiere jobs, then the AD's in question are idiots.

There is also rumors of him knocking up a secretary, the whole murder thing involving his players where he may or may not have told his players to say as little as possible to authorities and a slew of other missteps along the way.

Listen, it may or may not be true, but a few sports writers in the state are CMU grads who have been saying there is some dark shit in his past which is why MSU didn't hire him.

Take it FWIW.

Maybe that will be the impetus for Joe to finally retire too. Seems pretty clear he was sticking around to retain his status of having the most coaching wins in FBS history.

Joe will die on the field.

And aside from all that, Harbaugh is proving that he can win at Stanford, no mean feat. He's recruiting quite well according to the various online sites and his success on the field is crystal clear. He'll have a hard time replacing Gerhart, but Luck is only going to get better and as long as he can build strong, tough offensive lines, his offense will roll. His main challenge is to build a defense that rivals his offense.I think Harbaugh is a very good offensive coach, a great fit at Stanford, and he may be as good as people think he is, but I really don't agree that he's proven yet instead of being a flavor of the month. He's 8-4 and has one winning season in 3 at Stanford. It looks nice coming after the Buddy Teevens and Walt Harris debacles, but Ty Willingham had 4 winning seasons in 7 at Stanford and won the conference once. I'd like to see Harbaugh go above .500 for 2 consecutive seasons, particularly without Gerhart, before agreeing he deserves the hype.

I agree on Harbaugh. I don't know that he'll leave Stanford, but he's going to use these other BCS schools like Kansas to up his current salary. Hence you're going to see Harbaugh take calls from Kansas, Louisville, etc simply to up his current salary.

Mangino is making about $2.3 million a year so I'm guessing it will be in that region depending on experience, etc. The Kansas job could be one of the better jobs available thus far this year given the new facilities, money invested into the program, BCS conference, etc. The downside for Kansas is and always will be that you're going to have to recruit outside the state, but especially in Texas which is not easy given Texas, Oklahoma, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, etc.

I have my doubts about that. Stanford is a private institution, so getting true financial figures on coaches salaries there is difficult, but he reportedly agreed to an extension last year for $1.25M per season that was put on hold due to the economic climate. Given his current status, I'd be shocked if that salary figure wasn't bumped up closer to or above $2M per season and approved. Stanford knows Harbaugh is hot property right now, and they don't want to lose him. The University itself has a huge endowment, and after building the new stadium on campus I don't think the AD is going to let him walk away due to salary considerations unless another school offers him silly money.

And aside from all that, Harbaugh is proving that he can win at Stanford, no mean feat. He's recruiting quite well according to the various online sites and his success on the field is crystal clear. He'll have a hard time replacing Gerhart, but Luck is only going to get better and as long as he can build strong, tough offensive lines, his offense will roll. His main challenge is to build a defense that rivals his offense.

My point being, I think he can accomplish at Stanford everything he could accomplish at Kansas, and to boot, he appears to relish the idea of succeeding at a University that holds themselves to higher academic standards than just about any other in FBS football.

How much are you figuring Kansas is going to spend on a new coach anyway?

There has been a rumor of a co-ed Kelly impreganated and ten encouraged/"forced" to terminate the pregnancy.

Additionally the man has the mouth of a sailor, which while IS part of football may not be a part ND wants to associate with.

I honestly think they should hire Tommy Bowden, he would win 8-9 every year, and say a mean pre game prayer....

As a freind and former staffer said once, "When it comes to NCAA coaches there is not a better prayer leader than Tommy Bowden, and whne it comes to coaching football games; well he does say a nice prayer."

If Patterson were going to return home to Kansas, he would have taken the K-State job last year. He was a K-State player and coach, and Snyder supposedly endorsed him to take the job and he turned it down. As one analyst I heard over the weekend pointed out, Patterson probably has an easier road to the BCS and a national title from TCU than he would from Kansas. If Patterson leaves TCU, I think it's for a topline BCS job.

This is exactly the kind of language that coaches who want to leave a door open use. "I intend" gives them an out when they leave shortly after issuing such a proclamation.

Not that I have any particular reason to think Stoops is a liar, but the Sabans and Petrinos of the world have essentially made all college coaches denying interest in job X completely unbelievable.

I'll believe Stoops is staying at UO when ND hires someone else or Stoops signs his new deal there. Until then, all these denials sound just like the others that were lies.
I think everything Stoops said is true and yet it all gives him wiggle room to leave. First, if you're not going anywhere, you don't say you "intend" to be at OU next year -- you say "I will" be at OU next year.

I also think Stoops is beyond interviewing. You don't interview Stoops, you just offer him the job. He's not getting on a plan to South Bend without a contract in hand.

As far as Notre Dame goes, I think the perfect guy for them would be Bo Pelini. He's got a great background, he's defensive minded, he's got a national recruiting background with experience going into Texas and the south, he's got BCS experience, he's from Ohio -- oh, and by the way, he went to a Catholic high school. He's got Nebraska back on the right track in two years.

I think Harbaugh is a very good offensive coach, a great fit at Stanford, and he may be as good as people think he is, but I really don't agree that he's proven yet instead of being a flavor of the month. He's 8-4 and has one winning season in 3 at Stanford. It looks nice coming after the Buddy Teevens and Walt Harris debacles, but Ty Willingham had 4 winning seasons in 7 at Stanford and won the conference once. I'd like to see Harbaugh go above .500 for 2 consecutive seasons, particularly without Gerhart, before agreeing he deserves the hype.
Is he "proven"? No, I guess not. But it's hard to ignore the positive trajectory he has Stanford on, and given the context - the Pac-10 is an absolute meat-grinder this year with 6 good programs and 3 more competitive ones, his 8-4 record is all the more impressive. The Pac-10 wasn't as good most years when Ty was at Stanford, and while he took Walsh's players and had an immediate 4 game improvement, he declined in years 3 and 4 before bouncing between good years and a mediocre year before leaving for Notre Dame.

I can understand the hesitancy given the past history of TyWilly, but I think Harbaugh is genuine. Obviously some of the credit for his success goes to the talents of Toby Gerhart, but by the same token, give credit to Harbaugh for fully exploiting Gerhart's talent.

Obviously we'll know better in 2-3 more years whether Harbaugh is a flash in the pan or a proven high level coach, but by then he may no longer be available - he'll either be at a top-notch football school or he'll be basically entrenched at Stanford. If he can consistently win at Stanford and compete for Pac-10 titles, I see little reason for him to leave for another college job - at that point he's either at Stanford for a long time or he decides to jump to the NFL.

"Leave Gary Aloooone!!!"

I think everything Stoops said is true and yet it all gives him wiggle room to leave. First, if you're not going anywhere, you don't say you "intend" to be at OU next year -- you say "I will" be at OU next year.

I also think Stoops is beyond interviewing. You don't interview Stoops, you just offer him the job. He's not getting on a plan to South Bend without a contract in hand.
I'd be surprised if Stoops left for Notre Dame, but not shocked.

Success only raises expectations, and with his failure to win another title since 2000, some think he's plateaued at Oklahoma and that Texas has finally passed them by in the Big-12.

Coaches have egos, and it could appeal to Stoops' ego to go to Notre Dame and be the guy to get them their next National Championship. Winning a championship at 2 different schools would elevate his status among all-time coaches, and while the downside to not succeeding at Notre Dame is obvious, those that do succeed become legends. Not that he isn't already a legend for his success at Oklahoma, but he could raise it a notch by also succeeding at Notre Dame. Right now, he probably ranks behind Wilkinson and Switzer in the minds of most Oklahoma fans.

Ultimately I think Stoops will parlay this into a raise, but I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility he takes the job at Notre Dame.

If Patterson were going to return home to Kansas, he would have taken the K-State job last year. He was a K-State player and coach, and Snyder supposedly endorsed him to take the job and he turned it down. As one analyst I heard over the weekend pointed out, Patterson probably has an easier road to the BCS and a national title from TCU than he would from Kansas. If Patterson leaves TCU, I think it's for a topline BCS job.
+1

There is also rumors of him knocking up a secretary, the whole murder thing involving his players where he may or may not have told his players to say as little as possible to authorities and a slew of other missteps along the way.

Listen, it may or may not be true, but a few sports writers in the state are CMU grads who have been saying there is some dark shit in his past which is why MSU didn't hire him.

Take it FWIW.
Interesting. If he doesn't get a sniff at Notre Dame this year or Michigan after RichRod is fired, I guess we can infer there's truth to these rumors.

If Cincinnati follows through on facilities improvements, he may not really need to move on to a bigger school anyway - if he keeps winning 10-11 games every year, he's going to put Cincinnati in a position to get serious consideration for a BCS Championship game if things break right, more so than Boise State.

Interesting. If he doesn't get a sniff at Notre Dame this year or Michigan after RichRod is fired, I guess we can infer there's truth to these rumors.

If Cincinnati follows through on facilities improvements, he may not really need to move on to a bigger school anyway - if he keeps winning 10-11 games every year, he's going to put Cincinnati in a position to get serious consideration for a BCS Championship game if things break right, more so than Boise State.

He has a Rich Rodriguez type personality. He won't stay at Cincy for long.

Cincy's improvements are also just to get them on par with a typical D-1A school as I believe Cincy and Marshall are the only 2 that practice on the same field they play on right now. Their facilities are just terrible. Even with the money they're dumping into the program they'll still be behind most of the Big East schools.

Kelly's been my A choice as a coach, but there are the constant rumblings and talk of skeletons in the closet with him. A lot seems to be sour grapes from Michigan/MSU fans and the assumption that there must be some if he wasn't hired at a more prestigious job yet.Interesting. If he doesn't get a sniff at Notre Dame this year or Michigan after RichRod is fired, I guess we can infer there's truth to these rumors.That's precisely why this is so frustrating. Everyone talks about these rumors but no one goes on record. Yet I'm sure if he's hired by ND (or Michigan) you'll have 15 people on record and a dozen articles about every allegation within a week.

The racial comments will be loved by the Jason Whitlock's desperate to bring up Tyrone Willingham and race at ND again, but actually looking at what's in public there's a lot of truth to the comments. And the secretary/alleged abortion thing isn't good, but I really don't care anymore than I did about Pitino. If that's really the worst of it, they don't seem to be that bad. And if they aren't, I wish somebody would put the other reason out there.

That's precisely why this is so frustrating. Everyone talks about these rumors but no one goes on record. Yet I'm sure if he's hired by ND (or Michigan) you'll have 15 people on record and a dozen articles about every allegation within a week.

The racial comments will be loved by the Jason Whitlock's desperate to bring up Tyrone Willingham and race at ND again, but actually looking at what's in public there's a lot of truth to the comments. And the secretary/alleged abortion thing isn't good, but I really don't care anymore than I did about Pitino. If that's really the worst of it, they don't seem to be that bad. And if they aren't, I wish somebody would put the other reason out there.

A lot of people were shocked he didn't get the MSU job. That is why a lot of this came out. It was rumbled around the time, but yeah. He was never a candidate for the Michigan job, but you could base that on his merit to that point.

MSU though would have been a perfect fit which is why it's so odd.

I don't think you realize how poor the KSU job is right now. For starters, they are hurting financially after the Ron Prince buyout fiasco so there is no way they could offer anything remotely competitive with TCU. And Ron Prince's squad was so heavily laden with junior college talent that in two years they were going to have to deal with some major rebuilding. And depending on which rumors you listened to, Patterson was either never offered the job or he turned it down because of the KSU leak. Honestly, I think there was some interest in Patterson, but only if Snyder wouldn't take the job and then hand it off to an assistant. I think the next coach in line for the KSU job is current assistant Koenning.

As for an easier road to the BCS, Kansas playing in the Big 12 north gives him just as good an opportunity as he has at TCU. It's not like he'll be playing Oklahoma and Texas every season. Your point would definitely be valid if TCU can sustain their current success while beating BCS caliber opponents in bowl games. Sad to say, but a school like TCU is going to take a reputation hit for simply being in the Mountain West Conference.

If Patterson were going to return home to Kansas, he would have taken the K-State job last year. He was a K-State player and coach, and Snyder supposedly endorsed him to take the job and he turned it down. As one analyst I heard over the weekend pointed out, Patterson probably has an easier road to the BCS and a national title from TCU than he would from Kansas. If Patterson leaves TCU, I think it's for a topline BCS job.

A lot of people were shocked he didn't get the MSU job. That is why a lot of this came out. It was rumbled around the time, but yeah. He was never a candidate for the Michigan job, but you could base that on his merit to that point.

MSU though would have been a perfect fit which is why it's so odd.The one argument against him being a "perfect fit" at MSU is that with his ego he'd be gone in 2-3 years while Dantonio seems much more content to stay at MSU for a while. I disagree with the rationale against stepping stone coaches (it's not an issue for ND, but for UMass there's been a lot of debate) - in my mind if a coach comes in and has success only to move higher, it makes your program look better for the next hire and gives you the 2-3 years of success - but I can see why many people find it distasteful and want a coach who wants to be there "for the school" rather than as a step on his career advancement.

The one argument against him being a "perfect fit" at MSU is that with his ego he'd be gone in 2-3 years while Dantonio seems much more content to stay at MSU for a while. I disagree with the rationale against stepping stone coaches (it's not an issue for ND, but for UMass there's been a lot of debate) - in my mind if a coach comes in and has success only to move higher, it makes your program look better for the next hire and gives you the 2-3 years of success - but I can see why many people find it distasteful and want a coach who wants to be there "for the school" rather than as a step on his career advancement.

Which is also true. It's hard to really say with him. My friend while at CMU worked in the Athletic Center and said Kelly was the biggest prick ever, but obviously that is nothing new. Doesn't matter when you win though.

I think X's and O's why he's perfect for ND, but I am not sure how he'll handle the media if he gets the job. I do think there won't be a middle ground though. He'll either win big or flame out in a blaze of glory.

Is he "proven"? No, I guess not. But it's hard to ignore the positive trajectory he has Stanford on, and given the context - the Pac-10 is an absolute meat-grinder this year with 6 good programs and 3 more competitive ones, his 8-4 record is all the more impressive. The Pac-10 wasn't as good most years when Ty was at Stanford, and while he took Walsh's players and had an immediate 4 game improvement, he declined in years 3 and 4 before bouncing between good years and a mediocre year before leaving for Notre Dame.

I can understand the hesitancy given the past history of TyWilly, but I think Harbaugh is genuine. Obviously some of the credit for his success goes to the talents of Toby Gerhart, but by the same token, give credit to Harbaugh for fully exploiting Gerhart's talent.

Obviously we'll know better in 2-3 more years whether Harbaugh is a flash in the pan or a proven high level coach, but by then he may no longer be available - he'll either be at a top-notch football school or he'll be basically entrenched at Stanford. If he can consistently win at Stanford and compete for Pac-10 titles, I see little reason for him to leave for another college job - at that point he's either at Stanford for a long time or he decides to jump to the NFL.I agree with most of this, but I'm just extremely wary about hyping "the next big thing" effectively off a 2-game span (Oregon/USC) especially when he loses 3 of the 5 around that game. Considering his team was superficially the same (albeit slightly better) than Charlie Weis' Notre Dame, what shows he is a better coach than Jeff Tedford, Mike Riley or even Mike Stoops?

You can say the same about most of the hot candidates - Gary Patterson coming from TCU has the shadow of Dennis Franchione and Chris Peterson at Boise that of Koetter and Hawkins, but admittedly as an East Coaster with less insight into the PAC-10 I'm not sold on Harbaugh any more than Tedford or Riley.I think X's and O's why he's perfect for ND, but I am not sure how he'll handle the media if he gets the job. I do think there won't be a middle ground though. He'll either win big or flame out in a blaze of glory.I eagerly anticipate the stories saying ND had to sell out their integrity to finally be relevant again. ;)

I wonder what Charlie will do now. He actually did a good job of getting recruits especially offensively. I wonder if he stays in the college ranks or heads back to the NFL as an O Cordinator.

I wonder what Charlie will do now. He actually did a good job of getting recruits especially offensively. I wonder if he stays in the college ranks or heads back to the NFL as an O Cordinator.

NFL teams are lining up at his door. He'll be back in no time. College is way too much work. Especially after you got $18m to leave one that was your alma mater. No way he's doing that shit again.

He can be very picky w/ all the money he has coming his way.

He'd be smart to take a year off, get his weight and health under control (he almost died from a failed gastric bypass several years ago), and then come back. He's only 53-years old now and is connected to Parcells and Belichick. He could take a year off, serve as an offensive coordinator in the NFL for a few seasons and then probably get an NFL head coaching job.

NFL teams are lining up at his door. He'll be back in no time. College is way too much work. Especially after you got $18m to leave one that was your alma mater. No way he's doing that shit again.I do think he'll end up as an NFL OC, partly because he's better as an OC than an HC, but also because his buyout is probably invalidated if he took another college HC job.

And for the record, I have no idea why people keep talking about an $18m buyout. The $18m was approximately the amount left on the contract (6years x 3m) and the buyout was assuredly less than that. I'd also wager money that his buyout was lowered last December as part of the agreement to him coming back for 2009.

4-5 million seems to be the tossed about numbers for his actual buyout.

I agree with most of this, but I'm just extremely wary about hyping "the next big thing" effectively off a 2-game span (Oregon/USC) especially when he loses 3 of the 5 around that game. Considering his team was superficially the same (albeit slightly better) than Charlie Weis' Notre Dame, what shows he is a better coach than Jeff Tedford, Mike Riley or even Mike Stoops?
Mike Riley and Jeff Tedford are excellent coaches. Riley will never leave Oregon State again - he's been down that road and is content the 2nd time around to stick with what he knows. Corvallis is his hometown, his dad coached there, he's built what was arguably the worst BCS program in the country for 20+ years into a Pac-10 title contender - there's little incentive for him to leave.

Tedford is losing a little bit of shine with his inability to get past USC and win the conference, but he's had opportunities to go elsewhere and has thus far resisted. His family loves it in the Bay Area, he has a good recruiting base and facilities improvements appear to finally be on there way. I wouldn't rule out Tedford jumping to a higher profile job, but it probably has to happen soon, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's more inclined to go to the NFL if he ever decides to leave Cal.

Stoops? I don't think he belongs in that category, and I'm more impressed with what Harbaugh has done. It took Stoops five seasons to break .500, and his team has backslid some this season.

As for Harbaugh and Stanford comparing to Notre Dame and Weis - Stanford was 2 wins better than the Irish against a harder schedule. I think that's more than just "slightly better", and certainly not "superficially the same".

I'd rank the Pac-10 coaches like this at the moment:

1. Carroll
2. Riley
3. Tedford

Gap

4. Harbaugh
5. Kelly

Gap

6. Stoops
7. Erickson
8. Neuheisel
9. Sarkisian

Huge gap

10. Wulff

With another good season next year, Harbaugh jumps into the top level of Pac-10 coaches with Carroll, Riley & Tedford. Kelly can make that jump as well - right now, you can't be sure how much he's riding off the coattails of Bellotti. Neuheisel and Sarkisian could make jumps up too with good seasons next year, and Stoops and Erickson are in danger of falling.

Wulff is probably gone after next season.

I don't know what the answer is at Washington State but it's just stunning to see the level they are recruiting at compared to the rest of the Pac-10. When you can promise unlimited playing time, a chance to be on TV and play in a major conference and don't really have strict academic standards, it's completely unexcusable to be recruiting the kind of no-names that WSU is right now. Hell, I can't remember a single recruit in SoCal over the last 3-4 years that has even mentioned WSU. Sure it's a tough job but you have to at least compete. Look at what Sarkisian has done since he's been there, Washington is actually a serious player for a lot of the upper level LA kids and are at least competing for some of the elite guys.

They actually have a local kid #8 TE in the nation this year, their next best recruit is the #31 TE in the nation. They have as many 2 star guys as 3 star guys and even a couple of 1 star guys (who usually don't even get recruited by a D1 program). Scout goes down to 250-300 usually in ranking by position and a bunch of their recruits aren't even ranked. In 2009 their best player was the #39 receiver in the country. These are the kind of kids you fill out a class with, not the kind you are getting in October and November. I really don't see a way back for them but if there is one, they have to get rid of Wulff ASAP and find a coach who has some recruiting pull.

I wouldn't mind the Bears taking a swipe at Weis. Can't be any worse than what we have right now.

I don't know what the answer is at Washington State but it's just stunning to see the level they are recruiting at compared to the rest of the Pac-10. When you can promise unlimited playing time, a chance to be on TV and play in a major conference and don't really have strict academic standards, it's completely unexcusable to be recruiting the kind of no-names that WSU is right now.

Pullman has to be the dowdiest place to play in any of the BCS conferences. I mean, at least Waco is warm.

The lack of success I think caps it off. A program like that, has to really cultivate its regional roots because if they can't afford you a chance at bowl games or anything else, a kid would rather go sit on the bench at a better school than start at one where they know they'll probably never have success.

It doesn't help that Boise State is in their territory. I think the upstarts in the Pacific Northwest/Intermountain West (plus TCU) have made it harder for those second-tier BCS programs that don't have a ton of in-state talent to compete. The fact that they're disproportionately out west hurts, because at least the Yankee schools have their own weak BCS league.

It's almost akin to the decision of a kid on the fringe to go top-tier FCS versus lower-level FBS because he'll get the chance to compete for a national title and if he performs really well, an outside shot at the next level and of course, the same chance to play.

I wouldn't mind the Bears taking a swipe at Weis. Can't be any worse than what we have right now.

Bill Cowler would be a great fit in Chicago IMO. He could bring back that tough defense and power running game they used to be known for. I hate the Bears as a passing team. NFC Central used to be the Black and Blue division now it is getting soft.

Oops wrong thread. Ill keep it on topic from now on:)

I guess to be fair I should point out that there is one program in the Pac-10 that does recruit almost as badly as WSU - Oregon State. But at this point who can deny that Riley has an amazing eye for talent (and OSU typically recruits the JC's very, very well) whereas WSU's strategy just seems to be "anybody with a pulse". Plus OSU has recruited some big time guys along the way - the Rodgers brothers, Phillip last year, Simi Kuli was a JC guy but could have probably gone to any program in the country.

DC - great points. With the national attention that Boise has got the WAC, it's no surprise that is hurting WSU even more. It's absolutely no contest to which program a kid from Idaho or Eastern Washington would rather go to these days.

But that is even more the point really, WSU has to hire somebody to go head to head with the upstart programs. Not a nice guy like Wulff who is a solid coach, but is never going to be able to get the talent to show it.

Pullman is a tough place to recruit to. You have to have a coach that has an eye for potential and can develop that potential, and can recruit to a specific system. You also have to target kids that are maybe looking to escape urban settings where they are likely to be drawn into trouble, or kids that really value small, close-knit communities. They have to be able to deal with cold weather and not a whole lot to do compared to bigger cities, as Pullman is quite isolated and not very big. It's the toughest place to recruit to in the Pac-10, and among the toughest of any BCS conference schools.

That said, WSU fans would tell you that Wulff is actually recruiting quite well, and who's to say at the moment they're wrong? I guess we'll see over the next 4-5 years. He's got a decent QB in Tuel, good WR prospects in Karstetter and Simone and some good young guys on defense like Bland. And with only a few exceptions, he's been redshirting his classes to build for the future at the expense of the present. That philosophy has also extended to them moving away from recruiting JC kids, preferring to build for the long term with H.S. kids.

Also, keep in mind that in Scout.com's system, a 1-star rating simply means that a player hasn't been evaluated. The lowest rating they give to someone they've evaluated is 2-stars.

I do think there's a lot to the theory that Boise State's success has hurt WSU. They are strong competition for the Inland Empire kids that WSU used to build off of. That said, some of it is simply evaluation mistakes. WSU didn't even offer Kellen Moore for example.

I'm not convinced Wulff is a good enough coach to survive in the Pac-10, and I think he's going to have to ditch his no-huddle offense - it just doesn't seem to be working. When you compare him to the rest of the coaches in the Pac-10, he just doesn't seem to measure up. But to be fair, it's still early to form a full judgment on his tenure.

I guess to be fair I should point out that there is one program in the Pac-10 that does recruit almost as badly as WSU - Oregon State. But at this point who can deny that Riley has an amazing eye for talent...
When you consider the differences between recruiting to USC and recruiting to OSU, I think an argument can be made that Mike Riley is every bit the coach that Pete Carroll is, maybe even better.

With another good season next year, Harbaugh jumps into the top level of Pac-10 coaches with Carroll, Riley & Tedford.I wasn't looking for a detailed ranking (although it is nice, and pretty much what I have except for using a parallel ranking of established vs. new instead of trying to place Sarkisian vs. Erickson for example - I think we can say Erickson doesn't have it anymore while it's unfair to Sark that his team was so bad last year) but pointing out that, as you yourself say, Tedford has lost the shine because he's still at 8-4/9-3. People love Harbaugh because they see him get to 8-3 but there's no guarantee he'll maintain it, let alone surpass USC as the PAC-10 standard bearer (although to be fair, I'm not sure we should expect him to at Stanford.) Meanwhile the comparative hype for Tedford is much lower despite consistent success at an academically, athletically, and historically similar school.As for Harbaugh and Stanford comparing to Notre Dame and Weis - Stanford was 2 wins better than the Irish against a harder schedule. I think that's more than just "slightly better", and certainly not "superficially the same"."Superficially the same" - strong offense (although Stanford was more run-oriented and better in the red zone) and terrible defense, combined with losses to lower ranked teams (Wake, Arizona in their case). "Slightly better" - the stats are almost the same outside of 3rd down and red zone conversion %, the schedules are nearly equal (16th and 24th) and I just watched the two teams engage in a shootout ND led in the 4th quarter and lost on a 4th-down halfback pass - and it's exactly how I assumed the game would go. It wasn't an aberration and ND wasn't lucky to be in the game - they are a similar, but slightly worse team than Stanford. If you want to "crown his ass" over an 8-4 season and the wins over Oregon/USC, go ahead, but I'm going to take into account the losses to inferior teams early, rival Cal directly after beating Oregon/USC, the even game I just watched them play vs. ND, the defense that was statistically worse than Notre Dame's (despite 6 senior starters)and the fact they lose multiple senior OL and probably their Heisman hopeful RB. And given all that, I think the elite schools would be wise to wait another year before paying Harbaugh like an elite coach - although as you say, that has the downside of him being hired by another or deciding to stay at Stanford.

I wasn't looking for a detailed ranking (although it is nice, and pretty much what I have except for using a parallel ranking of established vs. new instead of trying to place Sarkisian vs. Erickson for example - I think we can say Erickson doesn't have it anymore while it's unfair to Sark that his team was so bad last year) but pointing out that, as you yourself say, Tedford has lost the shine because he's still at 8-4/9-3. People love Harbaugh because they see him get to 8-3 but there's no guarantee he'll maintain it, let alone surpass USC as the PAC-10 standard bearer (although to be fair, I'm not sure we should expect him to at Stanford.) Meanwhile the comparative hype for Tedford is much lower despite consistent success at an academically, athletically, and historically similar school."Superficially the same" - strong offense (although Stanford was more run-oriented and better in the red zone) and terrible defense, combined with losses to lower ranked teams (Wake, Arizona in their case). "Slightly better" - the stats are almost the same outside of 3rd down and red zone conversion %, the schedules are nearly equal (16th and 24th) and I just watched the two teams engage in a shootout ND led in the 4th quarter and lost on a 4th-down halfback pass - and it's exactly how I assumed the game would go. It wasn't an aberration and ND wasn't lucky to be in the game - they are a similar, but slightly worse team than Stanford. If you want to "crown his ass" over an 8-4 season and the wins over Oregon/USC, go ahead, but I'm going to take into account the losses to inferior teams early, rival Cal directly after beating Oregon/USC, the even game I just watched them play vs. ND, the defense that was statistically worse than Notre Dame's (despite 6 senior starters)and the fact they lose multiple senior OL and probably their Heisman hopeful RB. And given all that, I think the elite schools would be wise to wait another year before paying Harbaugh like an elite coach - although as you say, that has the downside of him being hired by another or deciding to stay at Stanford.

What worries me most about Harbaugh is the NFL. I do think he plans on doing college a little bit longer, but at the same time, he spent so much time in the NFL that I have no idea if that is what he wants or if he is content will college. While all the college to pro guys have flamed out for the most part, he seems to be the one current guy with a lot of shine on him and will assuredly be called once the season is over about openings.

That is when the real fun will start.

...and with his failure to win another title since 2000, some think he's plateaued at Oklahoma and that Texas has finally passed them by in the Big-12.

Seriously...? Ah, come on man. You know I can't let this one slide. Just check the number of Big 12 Championships of Stoops vs. Brown. Even if Texas gets one this year, which they certainly will, it's not even close. And just because OU had a bad season this year with injuries like I've never seen before, don't expect them not to return to previous form. All indications are that this recruiting class will be one of their best.

I can't believe how classless Bowden is being saying he wants his last game to be in Florida. The team doesn't deserve the Champs or Gator Bowl. As a member of a collegiate staff, my bowl bonus is higher by a full paycheck if my school attended either of these bowl games. If I was a member of Clemson, BC or Georgia Tech, I would be pissed. I know he was forced out and that sucks but leveraging your way into a better bowl is not the way to leave.

Seriously...? Ah, come on man. You know I can't let this one slide. Just check the number of Big 12 Championships of Stoops vs. Brown. Even if Texas gets one this year, which they certainly will, it's not even close. And just because OU had a bad season this year with injuries like I've never seen before, don't expect them not to return to previous form. All indications are that this recruiting class will be one of their best.
Note that I didn't say I think he's plateaued, just that some out there think so.

I've said repeatedly I don't think Stoops will leave Oklahoma - I think he'll just play Notre Dame's apparent interest into a raise and/or extension.

One could paint a plausible scenario for why he might leave, but I doubt it will happen.

Apparently ND is reaching out to Mike Reiley right now. Great coach but everything I read says he's from Corvallis and loves it there. Maybe ND is a job he leaves for though.

I can't believe how classless Bowden is being saying he wants his last game to be in Florida. The team doesn't deserve the Champs or Gator Bowl. As a member of a collegiate staff, my bowl bonus is higher by a full paycheck if my school attended either of these bowl games. If I was a member of Clemson, BC or Georgia Tech, I would be pissed. I know he was forced out and that sucks but leveraging your way into a better bowl is not the way to leave.

what a tool. i hope they tell him to go fuck himself

no way BC makes either of those bowls though - we'll be lucky to get the Emerald Bowl in SF (although if we do maybe i'd go out there for that?)

I can't believe how classless Bowden is being saying he wants his last game to be in Florida.

Really? I have come to expect it. I am just so pleased he won't be able to catch Paterno in wins, I can't even tell you.

Note that I didn't say I think he's plateaued, just that some out there think so.


Fair enough... I'll leave my post as directed to anyone crazy enough to think Texas has surpassed Oklahoma in the Big XII. ;)

Fair enough... I'll leave my post as directed to anyone crazy enough to think Texas has surpassed Oklahoma in the Big XII. ;)

Wow, call me crazy to think there might be a case to be made when Texas is 4-1 against OU over the past 5 seasons. Not to mention the much better performances Texas has turned in when in BCS games.

Most disinterested observers would have a hard time making a definitive case that either team is ahead of the other.

Looks like Gary Patterson is working on an extension with TCU. It should make the Horned Frog faithful feel a bit more secure this off-season once it's signed.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/ncf/news/story?id=4703348

Kelly still won't shoot down ND rumors. I think it's safe to say that if he's offered, he'll be the ND coach.

Wow, call me crazy to think there might be a case to be made when Texas is 4-1 against OU over the past 5 seasons. Not to mention the much better performances Texas has turned in when in BCS games.

Hmm... I would swear he said Big XII.

Most disinterested observers would have a hard time making a definitive case that either team is ahead of the other.

And I'm not sure I said that. Pay attention, cartman... ;)

Apparently ND is reaching out to Mike Reiley right now. Great coach but everything I read says he's from Corvallis and loves it there. Maybe ND is a job he leaves for though.
Riley will not leave Oregon State. He's been down that road before and has no interest in repeating it.

Most disinterested observers would have a hard time making a definitive case that either team is ahead of the other.
And I'm not sure I said that. Pay attention, cartman... ;)

You seemed to infer that Oklahoma was ahead of Texas with this statement:

I'll leave my post as directed to anyone crazy enough to think Texas has surpassed Oklahoma in the Big XII. ;)

what a tool. i hope they tell him to go fuck himself

no way BC makes either of those bowls though - we'll be lucky to get the Emerald Bowl in SF (although if we do maybe i'd go out there for that?)

Yeah, I don't see BC getting a bowl down in Florida. Some projections have them going to the Meineke in Charlotte (vs Pitt or WVU) others figure Emerald vs Stanford.

edit to add: Last year's trip to the Music City Bowl seems to limit them to those two options realistically. And since UNC went to the Meineke last year (and is projected to Nashville this year), I first thought it would be the more likely option for BC although you were just there in '06.

But upon further review, I assume FSU will be considered the first choice for the bowls with the 5/6/7 ties & since it appears that the Emerald bowl tie ends after this season (they go to a WAC 1/2/3 or Army or Navy tie starting next year) I'd think they'll get the last choice meaning something like
UNC - Music City ... FSU - Meineke ... BC - Emerald
might be the end result

If Rutgers wins vs WVU Saturday and Cincy beats Pitt, it looks like WVU will still go to the Gator (obviously, as discussed) and Rutgers will face Miami in Charlotte. Would be a fun match-up with Schiano's history over there.

Pitt and their disgustingly-small traveling fanbase would probably head to Toronto.

If Rutgers wins vs WVU Saturday and Cincy beats Pitt, it looks like WVU will still go to the Gator (obviously, as discussed) and Rutgers will face Miami in Charlotte. Would be a fun match-up with Schiano's history over there.

Pitt and their disgustingly-small traveling fanbase would probably head to Toronto.

Even with a Rutgers loss you may end up in the Charlotte bowl. Pitt's fanbase is that bad. They returned 5k tickets for the brawl this year.

If Rutgers wins vs WVU Saturday and Cincy beats Pitt, it looks like WVU will still go to the Gator (obviously, as discussed) and Rutgers will face Miami in Charlotte. Would be a fun match-up with Schiano's history over there.

{scratches head}

I'm having a tough time figuring how Miami ends up bumped down to the 5/6/7 ACC bowl tier. They're #3 by overall record, tied for #4 in conference record with BC, will be ACC #4 in the BCS at worst.

I think the conference has been through enough upset, hard feelings, anger, etc at bowls trying to break the selection order in the past few years that them getting downgraded is unlikely & perhaps even moreso because it would be at the benefit of a hated rival.

edit to add: Since in hindsight I realize that I shouldn't take for granted that everyone knows this, the ACC pick order is Orange-Peach-Gator-Champ Sports 1 thru 4, followed by a 5/6/7 tier that isn't specific for Music City, Meineke, and Emerald. Then comes Eagle Bank & GMAC in the event there are 8 or 9 teams bowl eligible.

That changes next year incidentally, becoming Orange-Peach-Champs-Sun (ACCCG runner-up or #4)-Meineke-Music City-Independence-Eagle Bank, with a contingency to fill the Emerald if there's no one in their new deal eligible.

Incident

Maryland is keeping Fridge. Maryland Athletics - University of Maryland Official Athletic Site (http://www.umterps.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/120109aaa.html)

Still not sure how I feel about that, as a season ticket holder.

/tk

{scratches head}

I'm having a tough time figuring how Miami ends up bumped down to the 5/6/7 ACC bowl tier. They're #3 by overall record, tied for #4 in conference record with BC, will be ACC #4 in the BCS at worst.

I think the conference has been through enough upset, hard feelings, anger, etc at bowls trying to break the selection order in the past few years that them getting downgraded is unlikely & perhaps even moreso because it would be at the benefit of a hated rival.

edit to add: Since in hindsight I realize that I shouldn't take for granted that everyone knows this, the ACC pick order is Orange-Peach-Gator-Champ Sports 1 thru 4, followed by a 5/6/7 tier that isn't specific for Music City, Meineke, and Emerald. Then comes Eagle Bank & GMAC in the event there are 8 or 9 teams bowl eligible.

That changes next year incidentally, becoming Orange-Peach-Champs-Sun (ACCCG runner-up or #4)-Meineke-Music City-Independence-Eagle Bank, with a contingency to fill the Emerald if there's no one in their new deal eligible.

Incident

This is the Gator's last year with BE/ACC matchup. I don't think they really care if they piss anyone off and Bowden coming out and saying he wants a Florida bowl game plus the FSU president leaking an agreement being reached puts the ACC in a really tough spot.

I won't shed any tears for Miami, though. The move the ACC has been a disaster for them to this point.

Even with a Rutgers loss you may end up in the Charlotte bowl. Pitt's fanbase is that bad. They returned 5k tickets for the brawl this year.

So sad.

{scratches head}

I'm having a tough time figuring how Miami ends up bumped down to the 5/6/7 ACC bowl tier. They're #3 by overall record, tied for #4 in conference record with BC, will be ACC #4 in the BCS at worst.

I think the conference has been through enough upset, hard feelings, anger, etc at bowls trying to break the selection order in the past few years that them getting downgraded is unlikely & perhaps even moreso because it would be at the benefit of a hated rival.

Like you said, FSU being bumped up significantly is how Miami gets pushed from 4th to 5th. Clemson goes to the Champs on account of bringing a bigger crowd (and maybe due to the H2H win?). Just speculation I've read, nothing locked in.

This is the Gator's last year with BE/ACC matchup. I don't think they really care if they piss anyone off and Bowden coming out and saying he wants a Florida bowl game plus the FSU president leaking an agreement being reached puts the ACC in a really tough spot.

I thought, the conference ultimately has to sign off on who goes where (although that may only be true 5-7 and not 2-4) so even if the Gator doesn't care about making someone mad, the ACC would/should/might. But they may not be contractually able to stop it either.

And if it were another team getting screwed over to give Bowden a FL bowl I might think it was more likely but Miami? Damn, that's asking them to swallow an awful lot even if I do wish they had never been added to the conference in the first place.

And if FSU leaked it (which I'm pretty sure is a conference rule violation) then they at least ought to get their hand spanked for it as hard as the conference rules allow.

And lest I look too dumb, I didn't know about the Gator leak until it was mentioned in this thread.

I thought, the conference ultimately has to sign off on who goes where (although that may only be true 5-7 and not 2-4) so even if the Gator doesn't care about making someone mad, the ACC would/should/might. But they may not be contractually able to stop it either.

And if it were another team getting screwed over to give Bowden a FL bowl I might think it was more likely but Miami? Damn, that's asking them to swallow an awful lot even if I do wish they had never been added to the conference in the first place.

And if FSU leaked it (which I'm pretty sure is a conference rule violation) then they at least ought to get their hand spanked for it as hard as the conference rules allow.

My understanding of the ACC rules is that at 6-6 FSU can't bypass any team with more than 1 win in conference play without permission. The ACC title game winner obviously goes to the BCS, the 2nd pick will likely be Va Tech, with FSU at 4-4 in conference play that only leaves the loser of Clemson and Georgia Tech as the team they need permission to jump. Miami gets screwed, but it's a situation where they really aren't going to have say in the matter.

Here's a blog post on ESPN where they quote a conference spokesman.

FSU to Gator Bowl? - ACC Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/7244/fsu-to-gator-bowl)

I am not much of a fan of Bobby Bowden these days(In time I will reflect and gain my love for him) but some of the comments made are shitty. If Bowden wants to play in Florida and a bowl other then the Gator picks them(like the Champs) then how is that wrong?

So sad.



You can buy a group of 15 tickets right now for their game against Cincy on Saturday. Can probably go higher, but 15 is what I tried for shits and giggles.

Reading a few sites, and Butch Davis is popping up quite a bit for ND. I doubt it but it'd be interesting. Great recruiter, but never been a big fan of his coaching.

Looks like you were right, as now the most in-touch Rutgers writer is saying Rutgers will go to the Meineke win-or-lose vs WVU unless Pitt beats Cincy.

So Pitt will either be going to a BCS game or Birmingham, Alabama. Ouch.

My understanding of the ACC rules is that at 6-6 FSU can't bypass any team with more than 1 win in conference play without permission. The ACC title game winner obviously goes to the BCS, the 2nd pick will likely be Va Tech, with FSU at 4-4 in conference play that only leaves the loser of Clemson and Georgia Tech as the team they need permission to jump. Miami gets screwed, but it's a situation where they really aren't going to have say in the matter.

Here's a blog post on ESPN where they quote a conference spokesman.

FSU to Gator Bowl? - ACC Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/7244/fsu-to-gator-bowl)

Okay, so
1 to the Orange (GT/CLEM), 2 to the Peach (VT), 3 to the Gator, 4 to the Champ Sports

So from the spokesman, the only way FSU can go to the Gator Bowl is if GT or Clemson agree to be bypassed?

BUT
By that rule, the team chosen must be within one loss in the conference standings of the best team available, and the loser of the ACC championship game -- either Georgia Tech or Clemson --will have at least six conference wins. Virginia Tech also has six wins, while Florida State only has four. The ACC championship game has no impact on the final conference record.

So on losses that count we've got
GT - 1
VT & CLEM - 2
BC & Miami - 3
FSU & UNC - 4

So if Clemson loses the ACCCG & agrees to give away the Gator Bowl to FSU with the presumption of getting the Champs, what prevents the Champs from taking Miami over them and bumping the conference runner-up all the way to the #5 bowl?

Reading a few sites, and Butch Davis is popping up quite a bit for ND. I doubt it but it'd be interesting. Great recruiter, but never been a big fan of his coaching.
Wouldn't shock me at all. Davis has done well at North Carolina, but he'd have the ability to recruit better guys easier at Notre Dame. And he could elevate his reputation as a coach by succeeding at Notre Dame. He got a lot of credit for rebuilding Miami after their probation and setting the table for Coker, but he's predictably found the sledding a little tougher at Carolina.

If Rutgers wins vs WVU Saturday and Cincy beats Pitt, it looks like WVU will still go to the Gator (obviously, as discussed) and Rutgers will face Miami in Charlotte. Would be a fun match-up with Schiano's history over there.

Pitt and their disgustingly-small traveling fanbase would probably head to Toronto.

It would almost be worth losing to see Pitt fall all the way down to Toronto in "the season that they returned to prominence." :)

Almost. If WVU and Cincy both win, I'd still love to see Rutgers to Charlotte (which is actually a pretty nice bowl trip, in my experience) and Pitt to Toronto or Birmingham.

Reading a few sites, and Butch Davis is popping up quite a bit for ND. I doubt it but it'd be interesting. Great recruiter, but never been a big fan of his coaching.

I think he'd be a good choice if he were 5 to 10 years younger, but he is 58-years old right now. I'm not sure it makes sense from his or Notre Dame's point of view when you consider his age. He's had cancer and probably isn't a guy that will want to coach into his late 60s or 70s and he kind of already has the ball rolling at UNC.

You seemed to infer that Oklahoma was ahead of Texas with this statement:

Actually no implications intended. I simply refuted, using one piece of evidence, his comment that Texas had somehow surpassed Oklahoma in the conference. I think the two teams will be neck and neck for years to come, with inevitable ups and downs for each.

Edit: Of course, anyone wearing burnt orange is far behind in respectability and intelligence, but that's another issue entirely. :D

Sounds like Charlie Strong to Louisville. If true that's a home run hire for them. He's a great defensive mind and amazing recruiter.

Yeah, I don't see BC getting a bowl down in Florida. Some projections have them going to the Meineke in Charlotte (vs Pitt or WVU) others figure Emerald vs Stanford.

edit to add: Last year's trip to the Music City Bowl seems to limit them to those two options realistically. And since UNC went to the Meineke last year (and is projected to Nashville this year), I first thought it would be the more likely option for BC although you were just there in '06.

But upon further review, I assume FSU will be considered the first choice for the bowls with the 5/6/7 ties & since it appears that the Emerald bowl tie ends after this season (they go to a WAC 1/2/3 or Army or Navy tie starting next year) I'd think they'll get the last choice meaning something like
UNC - Music City ... FSU - Meineke ... BC - Emerald
might be the end result

This is the Gator's last year with BE/ACC matchup. I don't think they really care if they piss anyone off and Bowden coming out and saying he wants a Florida bowl game plus the FSU president leaking an agreement being reached puts the ACC in a really tough spot.

I won't shed any tears for Miami, though. The move the ACC has been a disaster for them to this point.

My understanding of the ACC rules is that at 6-6 FSU can't bypass any team with more than 1 win in conference play without permission. The ACC title game winner obviously goes to the BCS, the 2nd pick will likely be Va Tech, with FSU at 4-4 in conference play that only leaves the loser of Clemson and Georgia Tech as the team they need permission to jump. Miami gets screwed, but it's a situation where they really aren't going to have say in the matter.

Here's a blog post on ESPN where they quote a conference spokesman.

FSU to Gator Bowl? - ACC Blog - ESPN (http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/7244/fsu-to-gator-bowl)




Actually none of this maters.
Swofford was on a local radio show today, and referenced something I had to look up, sure enough NCAA rules prohibit any bowl from taking a 6-6 team if a 7-5 team is available.


See link
page 5
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2008/psfootball_handbook.pdf (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?key=/ncaa/ncaa/ncaa+news/ncaa+news+online/2009/division+i/board+sponsors+bowl+proposal+on+6-6+teams_11_02_09_ncaa_news)

Actually none of this maters.
Swofford was on a local radio show today, and referenced something I had to look up, sure enough NCAA rules prohibit any bowl from taking a 6-6 team if a 7-5 team is available.


See link
page 5
http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/champ_handbooks/football/2008/psfootball_handbook.pdf (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?key=/ncaa/ncaa/ncaa+news/ncaa+news+online/2009/division+i/board+sponsors+bowl+proposal+on+6-6+teams_11_02_09_ncaa_news)


The way I read that a 6-6 team can't go to a bowl while a 7-5 team sits at home. It doesn't seem to have any impact on the FSU situation.

The way I read that a 6-6 team can't go to a bowl while a 7-5 team sits at home. It doesn't seem to have any impact on the FSU situation.

Except that the way invitations are handed out.
For ACC team the winner of the ACCCG goes Orange
Then peach bowl invites (presumably VT from every rumor)
Next its the Gator's turn, at this time there is no guarantee that CU/GT gets an invite so they cant dip into the 6-6 pool. They can go to the 7-5 pool though with their 1 time every 4 year exception.
By contract Champs, Music City, Car Bowl etc. can not extend invitations until the Gator Bowl is filled.

Except that the way invitations are handed out.
For ACC team the winner of the ACCCG goes Orange
Then peach bowl invites (presumably VT from every rumor)
Next its the Gator's turn, at this time there is no guarantee that CU/GT gets an invite so they cant dip into the 6-6 pool. They can go to the 7-5 pool though with their 1 time every 4 year exception.
By contract Champs, Music City, Car Bowl etc. can not extend invitations until the Gator Bowl is filled.

I would think the ACC understands it's bowl rules better than a local radio show and the ACC has stated it is possible for FSU to go to the gator.

In order for it to actually happen, though, the Gator Bowl would also have to skirt the ACC's one-loss rule for the bowl selection process, which is possible if all parties involved agree to it, according to a conference spokesman.

The ACC has 7 Bowl Eligible teams and 7 bowl tie-ins. That means that regardless of who the Gator takes, no team with a 7-5 record or better will be staying at home. That is specifically what the rule states can't happen. It doesn't address bowl selection order at all.

DC Willie Martinez and two other defensive assistants fired at UGA
Martinez, two others out at UGA *| ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/sports/uga/martinez-two-others-out-222811.html)
http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/120209/bre_531266428.shtml

I thought, the conference ultimately has to sign off on who goes where (although that may only be true 5-7 and not 2-4) so even if the Gator doesn't care about making someone mad, the ACC would/should/might. But they may not be contractually able to stop it either.

This may be the case. They're saying now that the ACC may block FSU to the gator in order to give that bowl the middle finger on the way out. Can't say I blame them. They want to put FSU in the Champ Sports bowl since all he asked for was a bowl in Florida.

EDIT: Here's a link. There's actually lawsuits being considered over this.

http://jacksonville.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2009/11/30/daily22.html

A Mizzou writer talked about this, since it looks like Mizzou is going to get passed by a lower ranked team due to their proximity to the bowl. The rule is, you can pick a lower ranked team ONLY if there are enough slots for all other eligible teams to get bowl games. But if there are 7 bowl and 8 teams eligible, you must picked the team slotted into your bowl. But if its 7 and 7, you can contractually pick whoever you want.

I would think the ACC understands it's bowl rules better than a local radio show and the ACC has stated it is possible for FSU to go to the gator.



Just for Clarity, Swofford said it, not a local radio host.

thats not to say he is not a bumbling idiot I have maintained for years that he is in fact in competent, but it was not big Daddy Local Sports fan....

DC Willie Martinez and two other defensive assistants fired at UGA
Martinez, two others out at UGA *| ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/sports/uga/martinez-two-others-out-222811.html)
Georgia fires defensive coordinator, two others || OnlineAthens.com (http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/120209/bre_531266428.shtml)

Also, a fourth coach, Rodney Garner, will supposedly not have his contract renewed, though this is still rumor mill material at this point. That is really significant from a recruiting perspective--particularly with regard to the big fish that is TJ Stripling.

Just for Clarity, Swofford said it, not a local radio host.

thats not to say he is not a bumbling idiot I have maintained for years that he is in fact in competent, but it was not big Daddy Local Sports fan....

In the article above the Gator says Swofford was telling the Gator they couldn't because of the wording in their contract, but he was using an old contract. But that still doesn't explain him quoting that rule when it doesn't seem like it applies to this situation. The ACC could just be grasping at straws trying to keep this from happening.

It seems like this could get ugly. I really don't care who WVU plays in the Gator, but I'm interested to see how this plays out now.

So has this thread officially transformed into the "2008 college football bowl speculation" thread?

No, the bowls are relevant because were talking about Bowden and his retirement

Dude if they can manage a WVu FSU bowl game as Bowden;s last game, then no one can ever attack the bowl system again, because that would be awesome on a whole new level.

Dude if they can manage a WVu FSU bowl game as Bowden;s last game, then no one can ever attack the bowl system again, because that would be awesome on a whole new level.

How would a 6-6 ACC team playing against the 2nd or 3rd BE team (possibly over an 11-1 Cincy) be awesome? If Bowden wanted to go out in such a sentimental way, go out on top or go out when you are actually deserving of the bowl invite.

How would a 6-6 ACC team playing against the 2nd or 3rd BE team (possibly over an 11-1 Cincy) be awesome? If Bowden wanted to go out in such a sentimental way, go out on top or go out when you are actually deserving of the bowl invite.

Because it would be Bowden at his new school against his old school. He left WVU in the 70s for FSU. His two sons were players at WVU, and assistant coaches at WVU and coaches in small schools in WV. It would be awesome, I 'd take it in a heartflash.

I don't think you really understood his question ;). Perhaps for FSU, WVU, or Bowden fans it'd be awesome. But for the rest of us.... I think we'd be perfect fine attacking the bowl system for foisting this travesty on us (especially if it's an 11-1 Cincy getting passed over).

I don't think you really understood his question ;). Perhaps for FSU, WVU, or Bowden fans it'd be awesome. But for the rest of us.... I think we'd be perfect fine attacking the bowl system for foisting this travesty on us (especially if it's an 11-1 Cincy getting passed over).

This...I know all about the Bowden connections, just don't see it as awesome.

So has this thread officially transformed into the "2008 college football bowl speculation" thread?

Deal. How much you wanna be that I can be 100% accurate with my 2008 bowl picks (matchups and results!)?

Deal. How much you wanna be that I can be 100% accurate with my 2008 bowl picks (matchups and results!)?
Man, every year I get older it gets harder to remember what year it is...

So ole Charlie Wies walked away from ND witha 18 million contract payout and any money he makes doing some other job down the road he keeps no offset like happens when going from pro job to pro job. Chuck apparently was not a s dumb as we thought the ND administration on the other hand wow.

So ole Charlie Wies walked away from ND witha 18 million contract payout and any money he makes doing some other job down the road he keeps no offset like happens when going from pro job to pro job. Chuck apparently was not a s dumb as we thought the ND administration on the other hand wow.Do you know what a buyout is?

Because ND is a private university, no one in the media knows the details of his contract, but I guarantee it was nowhere near 18 million. Based off similar deals at public universities, it's usually the base salary times the years remaining, which would equate to ~3.6m, but even that is a guess that could be 2m off in either direction.

It's official. Mark Mangino resigns from his position as head coach at the University of Kansas.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4711389

1st Weis and now Mangino. This is weightism at its worst. :D

1st Weis and now Mangino. This is weightism at its worst. :D

Friedgen picked the right year to diet.

Do you know what a buyout is?

Because ND is a private university, no one in the media knows the details of his contract, but I guarantee it was nowhere near 18 million. Based off similar deals at public universities, it's usually the base salary times the years remaining, which would equate to ~3.6m, but even that is a guess that could be 2m off in either direction.
Well, he signed a 10-year extension that ran through 2015 and was rumored to be worth $3-4 million per season. Considering he had six years left on the contract, that would make the $18 million sound reasonable. It also seems like it's in the ballpark because that's not what the media knows about the details of the contract but what the people who do know say. Notre Dame donors have even indicated they were told they needed to raise $18 million to pay off the contract.

The difference between a public university and private university is that private schools aren't bound to limited salaries -- therefore, it's more likely Weis had a $3 million salary from Notre Dame whereas a coach like Bob Stoops probably gets $250,000 from OU, gets paid $250,000 for doing a TV show, $500,000 for hosting a football camp, $500,000 for a shoe contract, etc.

What's notable about Weis' deal is that reportedly there was NOT a buyout clause which allows the university to buyout the contract at a lower amount. The Kansas situation is a good example. KU's AD Lew Perkins gave Mangino a higher salary in exchange for a lower buyout which makes what he did today much cheaper to do.

Funny, here's the poll from the Kansas City Star on who will be KU's next coach:

<label for="4365">Jim Harbaugh, Stanford head coach</label>
<label for="4366">Nolan Cromwell, Texas A&M offensive coordinator</label>
<label for="4367">Phil Fulmer, former Tennessee head coach</label>
<label for="4368">Turner Gill, Buffalo head coach</label>
<label for="4369">Kevin Sumlin, Houston head coach</label>
<label for="4370">Larry Fedora, Southern Mississippi head coach</label>
<label for="4371">Skip Holtz, East Carolina head coach</label>

Cromwell is probably the most likely because he's an alum but ... Harbaugh? I'll eat my words if it ends up being somebody like him or Fulmer.

Reminds me of when Mangino was hired and everyone insisted it was going to be Hal Mumme from Kentucky right up until about five minutes after Mangino was announced.

Nolan Cromwell, Texas A&M offensive coordinator

{scratches head}

Is that the former Rams DB?

{scratches head}

Is that the former Rams DB?
Ding! Yep, he apparently kicked around the NFL for a long time as an assistant and finally became a coordinator at A&M last year.

He's had some success in jumpstarting the A&M offense but it seems like a real reach, and Lew Perkins doesn't strike me as a reach kind of guy.

I don't know who he'll get -- maybe it will be Fullmer. I just miss Mangino already. Better the devil you know and I kind of like the devil we had.

1st Weis and now Mangino. This is weightism at its worst. :D

Weis is fat guy, but Mangino is beyond that, he's just fascinating to look at. Like an A&E special.

Ding! Yep, he apparently kicked around the NFL for a long time as an assistant and finally became a coordinator at A&M last year.

He's had some success in jumpstarting the A&M offense but it seems like a real reach, and Lew Perkins doesn't strike me as a reach kind of guy.

I don't know who he'll get -- maybe it will be Fullmer. I just miss Mangino already. Better the devil you know and I kind of like the devil we had.

I was chatting with a couple of friends who went to KU last night who didn't follow sports as closely and I think this summed up my feeling as best I could:

Depends on what you want from the KU football program as it seems quite simple to me. He was quite crooked but he also made KU football close to as good as it could be. If you wanted him fired for his violations (which I'm ok with- and I'm not even talking about the recent stuff, I was referring to the cheating a couple of years ago) then be aware that our football program will likely not be close to that good for a while. It just depends on your priorities.

Personally, I'm ok with it because I don't like the cloud that's been over the football program for a couple of years. And I'm also worried it was in danger of really bringing some additional heat to the basketball program, which is run fairly clean for a major program. I liked having a good football program and have said it for years- I wish KU had always had a good football team but I'm not sure if the cost is worth it.

SI

Ding! Yep, he apparently kicked around the NFL for a long time as an assistant and finally became a coordinator at A&M last year.

He's had some success in jumpstarting the A&M offense but it seems like a real reach, and Lew Perkins doesn't strike me as a reach kind of guy.

I don't know who he'll get -- maybe it will be Fullmer. I just miss Mangino already. Better the devil you know and I kind of like the devil we had.

Lew is a good AD. I'd trust him to make a good decision.

Hm... Lew. He's a good AD if you like a corporate CEO running your athletic department. I, personally, don't like it but realize it comes with a some goods to balance out some of the bads. The way in which this went down was not pretty and doesn't exactly help in the next job search: "Hey, we're not going to fire you. We're going to make you resign and dredge up anyone who has anything bad to say about you and trot it out on national tv"

Back to how Mangino lost his job (and I think I've been pretty clear above what I've thought about him):

What really came out about Mangino was really that damning with regards to this "player abuse" investigation? He poked a few guys in the chest and lord knows he can yell and verbally berate players and there's some story about an injury caused by a practice where he made them work out a lot. Maybe I'm just insulated or naive or something, but isn't this pretty much what I would expect to hear about most college football coaches? Or at least the ones who are the disciplinarian types as opposed to "players coaches"?

Near as I can tell, his biggest sin was dropping 7 straight and having this investigation come up in the national media, giving unwanted attention that no one wanted on too large of a stage. But what did I miss in the stories that came out that he did that was awful? Do I just not understand what coaching college football is about or something?

SI

I was confused about it too.

The AD is a CEO. Lew's schools win and he gets the infrastructure built to keep winning.

It wasn't an accident he was the first winner of the National Athletic Director of the Year award.

But what did I miss in the stories that came out that he did that was awful?

Best I've been able to tell from a distance, the issue isn't so much with him yelling as it is with what he supposedly said while doing so. Here's a column that mentions a couple of the specific complaints as far as what Magino is alleged to have said to players.
Kansas Jayhawks coach Mark Magino's actions: Abuse or motivation? - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/commentary/news/story?id=4685052)

Ah to heck with looking it up, here's the excerpt I'm talking about & while I'm under the impression (right or wrong) that these aren't the only specifics that have drawn fire they're at least representative of the sort of thing that helped elevate it.
And the question at the root of the argument is this: Are you expected to take a certain amount of abuse in return for a scholarship?

And where is the line drawn? It's alleged that at Kansas, a player confided in his teammates that his father was an alcoholic and he wanted to be a lawyer. (Again, the brotherhood of gridiron combat lends itself to the broad dissemination of personal information.) And so, how do we react when that player now claims Mangino called him out by saying, "Do you want to be a lawyer or an alcoholic like your father?"

Is it abuse or motivation?

A former Mangino player, wide receiver Raymond Brown, told ESPN's Joe Schad that he dropped a pass in a game, sparking the coach's ire. As Mangino was yelling at him, the player said, "Yes, sir. ... Yes, sir." According to the player, Mangino said, "If you don't shut up, I'm going to send you back home to St. Louis so you can get shot with your homies." Brown's brother had been shot in St. Louis, a fact Mangino knew.

My own personal belief is that if he's on a 7 game winning streak instead of a 7 game losing streak that this wouldn't have been a job ending deal. But under the circumstances it turns into something between intolerable & a convenient excuse.

I was ambivalent on the Mangino stuff until the die standing up stuff. Once he started talking in those terms at pressers he had to go.

My own personal belief is that if he's on a 7 game winning streak instead of a 7 game losing streak that this wouldn't have been a job ending deal. But under the circumstances it turns into something between intolerable & a convenient excuse.

Well, exactly. If KU beats, say, Colorado and wins either at Mizzou or K-State, so he goes 7-5 and back to another bowl game, we aren't having this conversation at all. He starts next year on the hot seat and has lost his best offensive skill players (Reesing, Briscoe, Meier, and Sharp) so it's likely he has a bad season going, say, 4-8 and then loses his job for performance reasons.

Instead, he goes 5-7 and people would probably still have given him one more chance since, hell, none of us ever expected to be in a BCS bowl in our Kansas fan lifetime. So they dredge up this investigation, publicly slime him more than he had already done to himself, and parade out kids and parents who griped about stuff which, I think, goes on at every program in the country.

Does every coach make light of someone who's brother was shot? No. But I'd bet my ass that Saban, Meyer, Bowden, Carroll, et al, have said things on the same level- a personal insult to players to try to motivate them or just out of frustration- and no one is calling them out right now.

SI

No. But I'd bet my ass that Saban, Meyer, Bowden, Carroll, et al, have said things on the same level- a personal insult to players to try to motivate them or just out of frustration- and no one is calling them out right now.

Just philosophically, I think there's a legitimate question about "the same level". Personal insult is one thing & like you I seriously doubt there are 10 coaches in the business who haven't gone to that well at some point.

But whether something like "didn't your mother have any boy children?" or some other challenge to someone's manhood is on the same level as playing the alcoholic or dead brother cards is almost certainly in the eye of the beholder at best. Frankly if the accusations are accurate then I'm genuinely surprised that both players managed to avoid physically attacking him on the spot. Maybe one but both, well that defies the odds on emotional control as far as I'm concerned. I'd say he's lucky he didn't end up KTFO.

I'm still of the opinion that he's ultimately getting fired for a bad record but at the same time I'd say the university is wise to part company with him as soon as possible for potential legal reasons.

Well, he signed a 10-year extension that ran through 2015 and was rumored to be worth $3-4 million per season. Considering he had six years left on the contract, that would make the $18 million sound reasonable.
...
What's notable about Weis' deal is that reportedly there was NOT a buyout clause which allows the university to buyout the contract at a lower amount.The $18 million (6y x 3m) left on the contract makes sense, it's the lack of a buyout clause. I know sections of the media are reporting it and treating it as fact but I've never seen any reason why or any reason to believe them. Especially considering he had the endorsement deals, speaking fees, TV show, and was given this year (and a 1-year extension iirc) after last season with the assumption among the ND alums I know his buyout was reduced.

Personally, I'm content to thank Mangino for returning the KU football program to relevance and then move on. Hopefully the black mark that has been left isn't so much of a detractor that Lew isn't able to bring in a talented coach to keep things going in a positive direction performance-wise.

As for that poll from the KC star, here are my thoughts on each:

Jim Harbaugh: Seems to me that Jim has a good thing going at Stanford...I don't necessarily think KU is a step up.
Nolan Cromwell: A definite possibility, considering his ties to the university. Also, you know Lew wants to bring in someone with recruiting ties in the state of Texas.
Phil Fulmer: Can't say I'd be disappointed with this. The question is whether or not Fulmer would be interested in a step down from the prestige level he got used to at UT.
Turner Gill: I don't know enough about him to form an opinion.
Kevin Sumlin: Another intriguing possibility. It would definitely be a step up from Houston for him, and he'd bring with him the same sort of Texas recruiting ties that Cromwell brings to the table.
Larry Fedora: No opinion...but the man has a cool name. :D
Skip Holtz: At first blush I like the idea, and it would be a step up, but I'm not so sure this would be a good fit. On top of that, I don't think I could stand listening to Lou suddenly becoming a drooling, gibbering fanboy of my Jayhawks.

The $18 million (6y x 3m) left on the contract makes sense, it's the lack of a buyout clause. I know sections of the media are reporting it and treating it as fact but I've never seen any reason why or any reason to believe them. Especially considering he had the endorsement deals, speaking fees, TV show, and was given this year (and a 1-year extension iirc) after last season with the assumption among the ND alums I know his buyout was reduced.

Vindicated:)

Phil Fulmer: Can't say I'd be disappointed with this. The question is whether or not Fulmer would be interested in a step down from the prestige level he got used to at UT.

FWIW I'd say that his vocal interest in returning to coaching almost has to indicate he's willing to accept a drop in prestige. Who on earth at the level the Vols were at before the decline that he presided over in the end would consider hiring him?

The bigger issue with him & the Kansas job I think is his relative lack of recruiting connections in the area.

The bigger issue with him & the Kansas job I think is his relative lack of recruiting connections in the area.

True that, but a national championship ring would probably hold some sway for a lot of kids.

SI,

It was more than just a few players coming to Lew Perkins. Every year Mangino has had about one coach leave the staff for various reasons. There's a reason former KU defensive coordinator Bill Young left the KU job after the successful Orange Bowl season for Miami only to return to the Big 12 as Oklahoma State's defensive coordinator. One former assistant called Mangino the worst head coach he's ever worked for because of the way he treated his assistants.

As far as the stories let me just say that you haven't heard the worst stories about Mangino. If Lew Perkins really wanted to sling mud from the investigation he had a lot worse ammunition per the former players I've spoken with. Mangino was not well liked. If he was well liked then he would have survived a 1-7 season, but he wasn't and now he's gone.

Hm... Lew. He's a good AD if you like a corporate CEO running your athletic department. I, personally, don't like it but realize it comes with a some goods to balance out some of the bads. The way in which this went down was not pretty and doesn't exactly help in the next job search: "Hey, we're not going to fire you. We're going to make you resign and dredge up anyone who has anything bad to say about you and trot it out on national tv"

Back to how Mangino lost his job (and I think I've been pretty clear above what I've thought about him):

What really came out about Mangino was really that damning with regards to this "player abuse" investigation? He poked a few guys in the chest and lord knows he can yell and verbally berate players and there's some story about an injury caused by a practice where he made them work out a lot. Maybe I'm just insulated or naive or something, but isn't this pretty much what I would expect to hear about most college football coaches? Or at least the ones who are the disciplinarian types as opposed to "players coaches"?

Near as I can tell, his biggest sin was dropping 7 straight and having this investigation come up in the national media, giving unwanted attention that no one wanted on too large of a stage. But what did I miss in the stories that came out that he did that was awful? Do I just not understand what coaching college football is about or something?

SI

Jim Harbaugh's wife is from the area so his name is going to pop up for that reason alone.

Nolan Cromwell has zero head coaching experience in college. I can't imagine Lew Perkins taking a chance on an inexperienced coach at this point in time.

Larry Fedora has the potential to be a great hire due to his ties to the Big 12 recruiting region. He's reportedly interested in the job and could be one of the leaders, but he's only had a few years as head coach in the college ranks as well.

Phil Fulmer would be a great name hire, but I think he's a coach who is only as good as his assistants.

Turner Gill would be an interesting hire. He's basically the anti-Mangino as far as personality goes.

Kevin Sumlin is a mystery. He inherited a pretty good Houston program and did an incredible job with them this year.

On this list Harbaugh and Fedora would be my favorites. Gill and Sumlin would be in the next tier.


Personally, I'm content to thank Mangino for returning the KU football program to relevance and then move on. Hopefully the black mark that has been left isn't so much of a detractor that Lew isn't able to bring in a talented coach to keep things going in a positive direction performance-wise.

As for that poll from the KC star, here are my thoughts on each:

Jim Harbaugh: Seems to me that Jim has a good thing going at Stanford...I don't necessarily think KU is a step up.
Nolan Cromwell: A definite possibility, considering his ties to the university. Also, you know Lew wants to bring in someone with recruiting ties in the state of Texas.
Phil Fulmer: Can't say I'd be disappointed with this. The question is whether or not Fulmer would be interested in a step down from the prestige level he got used to at UT.
Turner Gill: I don't know enough about him to form an opinion.
Kevin Sumlin: Another intriguing possibility. It would definitely be a step up from Houston for him, and he'd bring with him the same sort of Texas recruiting ties that Cromwell brings to the table.
Larry Fedora: No opinion...but the man has a cool name. :D
Skip Holtz: At first blush I like the idea, and it would be a step up, but I'm not so sure this would be a good fit. On top of that, I don't think I could stand listening to Lou suddenly becoming a drooling, gibbering fanboy of my Jayhawks.

Jim Harbaugh's wife is from the area so his name is going to pop up for that reason alone.
If Harbaugh is going to leave Stanford, he's very likely going to have more appealing options than Kansas.

SI,

It was more than just a few players coming to Lew Perkins. Every year Mangino has had about one coach leave the staff for various reasons. There's a reason former KU defensive coordinator Bill Young left the KU job after the successful Orange Bowl season for Miami only to return to the Big 12 as Oklahoma State's defensive coordinator. One former assistant called Mangino the worst head coach he's ever worked for because of the way he treated his assistants.

As far as the stories let me just say that you haven't heard the worst stories about Mangino. If Lew Perkins really wanted to sling mud from the investigation he had a lot worse ammunition per the former players I've spoken with. Mangino was not well liked. If he was well liked then he would have survived a 1-7 season, but he wasn't and now he's gone.

And that's what I was wondering- what stories are out there that I don't know about. The national picture doesn't make sense and that's all I can get (save for a few message board rumors and local drivel like the ljworld).

Defense has never been the same since Bill Young left :(

SI

Probably, but as you and I have talked about before Harbaugh will at least look into it. The facilities at Kansas are some of the nicest in the country and he and his staff will be well compensated. So it's not as if the Kansas job doesn't have anything to offer him as a football coach. Plus as mentioned above it doesn't hurt that his wife is from the area and likely the biggest reason his name is getting mentioned. I don't think Harbaugh is headed to Kansas, but it's nice to at least have guys interested in the job.

If Harbaugh is going to leave Stanford, he's very likely going to have more appealing options than Kansas.

Bill Young's a good coordinator.

It's my guess you're not going to hear about the bigger issues because of the resignation. I would guess that's one part of the agreement with Mangino. Whitlock's article yesterday talked about some of the issues that staffers had with Mangino. But there were definitely other issues. Mangino is just not a nice guy...something that most of us have known for a while. It's fine to act that way when you're winning, but he pretty much sealed his fate with that kind of attitude once he had a few losses.

And that's what I was wondering- what stories are out there that I don't know about. The national picture doesn't make sense and that's all I can get (save for a few message board rumors and local drivel like the ljworld).

Defense has never been the same since Bill Young left :(

SI

Just for you dawgfan...

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9774/jimandsarah.jpg

If Harbaugh is going to leave Stanford, he's very likely going to have more appealing options than Kansas.

Vindicated:)How is that vindicated? Like I said, there has been nothing concrete in print anywhere saying that ND is paying $18 million or did not have a buyout clause in place. Yes, in the unlikely event it's true that's retarded on ND's part, but there's no indication it is other than the myriad rumors that pop up regarding anything ND does. And if those were reliable we'd have 6 head coaches by now.

I would be moderately surprised if Harbaugh leaves Stanford. I would be very surprised if he leaves Stanford for Kansas. Yes, the pay might be better and his wife has ties there, but from a prestige standpoint, it's a lateral move at best, if not a step back.

Michigan and Notre Dame would be the most likely destinations if he leaves for another college job IMO.

Just for you dawgfan...

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9774/jimandsarah.jpg

If Harbaugh leaves Stanford for Kansas it'll confirm rumors he loves the sauce.

Nothing against Kansas but he has no ties to that area. I don't see how he'd recruit there at all.

I would be moderately surprised if Harbaugh leaves Stanford. I would be very surprised if he leaves Stanford for Kansas. Yes, the pay might be better and his wife has ties there, but from a prestige standpoint, it's a lateral move at best, if not a step back.

Michigan and Notre Dame would be the most likely destinations if he leaves for another college job IMO.

Honestly, I think if he doesn't get a job this year, he'll see what happens with Michigan next year.

Even if he did come here should RR be fired, I worry he is an NFL guy. I have heard that in the past about him but who knows.

Just messing with you dawgfan. I saw that photo floating around and knew I had to post it for you, lol. His wife and her family are KU fans hence the sweatshirt.

You're correct that the Kansas job isn't a step up in the football hierarchy. That doesn't mean a coach like Harbaugh won't look at it if perhaps he's unhappy with some thing at Stanford. Kansas is a program on the rise though, but the tough thing is they'll always be competing against Oklahoma and Texas which makes it an extremely steep rise given the lack of in-state talent in the state.

I'm confident that Kansas will get a good coach. The program may not be in the upper tier of college football jobs, but it's a good job none the less with good facilities and good leadership. Hopefully Kansas can lure one of the quality young coaches to Lawrence and continue what Mangino started...minus the attitude.

I would be moderately surprised if Harbaugh leaves Stanford. I would be very surprised if he leaves Stanford for Kansas. Yes, the pay might be better and his wife has ties there, but from a prestige standpoint, it's a lateral move at best, if not a step back.

Michigan and Notre Dame would be the most likely destinations if he leaves for another college job IMO.

I had heard there might be hard feelings between Harbaugh and the Michigan athletic department after some comments he made claiming Michigan would "slip" academic risk athletes into the program. Any truth to that or is that just another rumor flying around?

Honestly, I think if he doesn't get a job this year, he'll see what happens with Michigan next year.

Even if he did come here should RR be fired, I worry he is an NFL guy. I have heard that in the past about him but who knows.

I had heard there might be hard feelings between Harbaugh and the Michigan athletic department after some comments he made claiming Michigan would "slip" academic risk athletes into the program. Any truth to that or is that just another rumor flying around?

There is truth most definitely but we're hiring a new AD in the next few months, and if it ends up being the current favorite to get the job (Dave Brandon, CEO of Domino's) then it won't matter because he played under Bo, is a Bo guy and wants another Bo guy to be the head coach.

If RR does well next year it won't matter, but if he fails he will be gone and Michigan will be looking for a new coach.

Now that said if Brandon doesn't take over, who knows what happens.

Honestly I think Kansas would be best served to get Sumler if possible, otherwise I think Fulmer is a solid choice. Use those southern ties to bring in some FL, LA, GA, MS and AL type kids and get a couple guys with ties to TX and you're set.

Fulmer scares me just because of all the Tennessee fans I've chatted with who claimed it was more his assistants than him at Tennessee.

Sumlin worries me simply because he inherited a pretty good program from Briles and I don't know Houston well enough to know how much of an impact he had. He definitely had a great squad this year. I just don't know how much was Briles vs Sumlin.

Same goes for Fedora. He has recruited well at Southern Miss, but I'm not sure how his coaching is. I've seen Southern Miss play and they definitely have some athletes especially on the offensive side of the ball. I'm just not sure of his coaching abilities.

If I had the money to throw at a non-BCS coach right now it would be Gary Patterson at TCU. Ties to the state of Kansas, recruits Texas well, and the guy knows defense. I don't see him leaving TCU for Kansas at this point, but I hope for it as unlikely as it is to happen, lol.

The other pipe dream is Tuberville, but I don't see him leaving the SEC for Kansas.

Honestly I think Kansas would be best served to get Sumler if possible, otherwise I think Fulmer is a solid choice. Use those southern ties to bring in some FL, LA, GA, MS and AL type kids and get a couple guys with ties to TX and you're set.

I'm not sure Fullmer is the best option either. Tuberville is intriguing - given his age, he probably can't afford to wait around too many more years before jumping back in the game if that's his intention, so that works in the favor of Kansas.

Has the name Terry Bowden been heard at all in the Kansas area? I think that is a name that will get some attention before this job is filled.

Bowden has only been mentioned as one of the possibilities from fans. The media has listed Harbaugh, Sumlin, Fedora, Gill, Charlie Strong, and Fulmer. Bowden is a name I remember from when Mangino was first hired. I think the only two serious names being looked at then were Mangino and Dennis Franchione. Franchione obviously ended up staying at Alabama before heading to Texas A&M the following year. The rumor has it that Franchione was the favorite, but he was wanting to see whether Notre Dame was offering. As a Kansas fan I always wondered why we didn't gauge Bowden's interest then. It was a different AD and the facilities were much worse off then so he may not have even listened at that time.

Has the name Terry Bowden been heard at all in the Kansas area? I think that is a name that will get some attention before this job is filled.

I think Terry Bowden would take just about any BCS head coaching position if it were offered to him. I would still love to know what he did at Auburn to get blackballed so badly. The guy took over an Auburn program that was on probation, w/ reduced scholarships, and went 47-17 (30-14 in the SEC), started out 1-5 during his sixth season (coming off a 10-3/6-2 season), resigned and sat out for over 10-seasons. He's at North Alabama now w/ an 11-2 ranking and isn't even getting mentioned at places like Memphis, Louisville, or Kansas. It is amazing that whatever he did has been held under wraps for so long.

Local media says UB head coach Turner Gill is interviewing for the Kansas job. His daughter is currently a KU student and Gill used to play in the Big 12 with Nebraska, so I'm sure he's very interested.

Buffalo didn't beat a team that even finished .500 this year. Turner Gill's best win this year is either 5-7 Kent State or 4-8 UTEP.

New to this thread, but Buffalo had a ton of new players coming in. It didn't help when your best players, RB James Starks (who was a considered a 1st-or-2nd round pick), was injured for the season right before the start of the season.

He can be very picky w/ all the money he has coming his way.

He'd be smart to take a year off, get his weight and health under control (he almost died from a failed gastric bypass several years ago), and then come back. He's only 53-years old now and is connected to Parcells and Belichick. He could take a year off, serve as an offensive coordinator in the NFL for a few seasons and then probably get an NFL head coaching job.

He needs to get his other leg operated on, doesn't he?

I'm still iffy on Turner Gill. He hasn't done enough to warrant getting a Big 12 job at this point, IMHO. This season's struggles at Buffalo certainly won't have helped.

Local media says UB head coach Turner Gill is interviewing for the Kansas job. His daughter is currently a KU student and Gill used to play in the Big 12 with Nebraska, so I'm sure he's very interested.

Christ Turns Down 3-Year, Multimillion Dollar Deal To Coach Notre Dame | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/christ_turns_down_3_year)

SOUTH BEND, IN—Jesus Christ, the Son of God, Savior of All Mankind, and current defensive coordinator at Middle Tennessee State, said Monday that He would not accept Notre Dame's 3-year, $5.6 million offer to coach the Fighting Irish. "I love Notre Dame and respect their football legacy, but no matter what you've accomplished before coaching there, once you're a Golden Domer, the expectations, frankly, are unrealistic," said Christ, whose family has been involved with the university since its founding. "I've had people turn on Me before, and it really put Me through hell. But even more importantly, I've made a commitment to stay with the Blue Raiders through 2015." Christ denied asking Notre Dame to remove His likeness from the building overlooking their stadium, saying He liked a good joke as much as anybody.

LOL!

New to this thread, but Buffalo had a ton of new players coming in. It didn't help when your best players, RB James Starks (who was a considered a 1st-or-2nd round pick), was injured for the season right before the start of the season.

The CAA South is probably better then the MAC East at this point and Buffalo did nothing. He's a coaching prospect I guess, but it's based on one decent year in a poor league.

Looks like Brian Kelly interviews for the Notre Dame job tomorrow. Cincinnati fans are starting to accept the fact that he could be gone and they may have an interim coach for their bowl game.

Dola

Butch Jones interviews for the Marshall job tomorrow, if anyone cares. I think it'd be a terrible move on his part.

Looks like Brian Kelly interviews for the Notre Dame job tomorrow. Cincinnati fans are starting to accept the fact that he could be gone and they may have an interim coach for their bowl game.

I have this weird feeling Kelly is going to snub ND. I just think Kelly is the kind of guy who is going to make outrageous demands like getting to get more academic risk kids in and I don't think ND will budge.

despite my selfish wants, I can not see GT CPJ is not on the Irish' short list.

despite my selfish wants, I can not see GT CPJ is not on the Irish' short list.

Great coach but there is no way in hell I ever see ND installing a triple option there. The boosters would jump off a cliff before that happened, right or wrong.

despite my selfish wants, I can not see GT CPJ is not on the Irish' short list.

They probably don't believe he really works there.

Great coach but there is no way in hell I ever see Michigan installing a spread offense there. The boosters would jump off a cliff before that happened, right or wrong.

;)

;)

I see what you did there.

I bet that would give ND some huge pause too, seeing as it's been a disaster so far at Michigan (Though way more on the D there then the O) but the spread option is still different then the triple option.

ND is way too stodgy to every even consider it.

LOL at Houston Nutt to Kansas being a done deal rumors going around now.

Ole Miss coach Nutt interested in KU job, has talked with Perkins - KansasCity.com (http://www.kansascity.com/news/breaking_news/story/1616064.html)

Nutt would be a solid hire for Kansas though I have no idea how well he'll be able to recruit there.

Nutt would be a solid hire for Kansas though I have no idea how well he'll be able to recruit there.

Kansas fans don't seem to think so, hehe

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=172&f=2485&t=5261546

Brian Kelly and Jim Harbaugh Interviewing With Notre Dame - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/08/sports/ncaafootball/08irish.html?_r=3&ref=sports)

Looks like Harbaugh is going to interview as well for ND.

If he somehow did get hired by ND, good for him. I really doubt he ends up there but I don't honestly care.

Now it would make for some interesting stores around here and a lot of UM fans will be in tears but it is what it is.

Houston Nutt would be a tough sell for Kansas fans. The debacle at Arkansas is still fresh in a number of people's minds so I just can't imagine him getting a serious look from Kansas. The Arkansas media can be a bit crazy at times so I don't know that I place much confidence in this story.

Nutt would be a solid hire for Kansas though I have no idea how well he'll be able to recruit there.

Houston Nutt would be a tough sell for Kansas fans. The debacle at Arkansas is still fresh in a number of people's minds so I just can't imagine him getting a serious look from Kansas. The Arkansas media can be a bit crazy at times so I don't know that I place much confidence in this story.

It was verified by the Kansas City Star independently.

Great coach but there is no way in hell I ever see ND installing a triple option there. The boosters would jump off a cliff before that happened, right or wrong.

Really?
Thats largely what Holtz won with, and one of the biggest complaints I have heard out of, the admittedly limited, ND fans I have contact with. They seem to long for a dominating ground game....again maybe just insufficient sampling

I don't put much faith in the KC Star anymore either since Jason King left town. Joe Posnanski is about the only talented writer left on staff and he's only a part timer with his new gig at Sports Illustrated. I don't doubt that Nutt has been talked to since he's friends with Bill Self, but I would be awfully surprised if anything more came of it.

It was verified by the Kansas City Star independently.

Houston Nutt is well-known for throwing his name out and/or saying that he has no interest in jobs that he is not a candidate for.

Really?
Thats largely what Holtz won with, and one of the biggest complaints I have heard out of, the admittedly limited, ND fans I have contact with. They seem to long for a dominating ground game....again maybe just insufficient samplingI wouldn't go that far - one of the reasons Weis' hiring was so welcome was the thought that ND needed to run a pro-style offense to get the recruits - but that came about because we were known as an option team. That was Holtz's base offense most years and we had it as part of the playbook until Weis arrived (its a terrible idea imo to run the option unless it's your base package, not just the fumbles on pitches but the number of bad decisions on when to pitch) - I even remember Carlyle Holliday running it as our base offense one of the bad years (2002?). And of course Urban Meyer basically runs a spread option, and most ND fans would have taken him without hesitation in 2004 and now.

I do agree Johnson won't get much of a look - weirdly if anything Niumatalolo's name has come up in rumors more than his. My best guess at the current wishlist is in order (Stoops) Kelly, Harbaugh, Edsall. The order may be clouded because that's my preference too if those are the candidates. Not at all sure where I would put Paul Johnson if he were in consideration - it seems like he's overachieving and doing it with smoke and mirrors, but it's been the same way for 15 years at 3 different schools. Maybe after another season where he goes 13-1 with a loss to Georgia JiMGA will burn his effigy on his lawn to convince him to leave. :)

Houston Nutt is well-known for throwing his name out and/or saying that he has no interest in jobs that he is not a candidate for.

Don't I know. Sexton is just involved enough in this one to make me raise my eyebrows about his motives, but still, it is fun to think about how he would be bolting for another job years before Petrino given their "reputations."

http://twitter.com/TomDienhart

"A source close to Houston Nutt told me he will interview for the Kansas job."
25 minutes ago from web

despite my selfish wants, I can not see GT CPJ is not on the Irish' short list.

They probably don't believe he really works there.

Sorry, maybe I should have said, "They probably don't believe *his resume* when it says he works there."

You will get my joke! Don't make me rephrase it again!

So now that everyone with a pulse except Brian Kelly has turned them down, where would Notre Dame look if he turns them down?

So now that everyone with a pulse except Brian Kelly has turned them down, where would Notre Dame turn if he turns them down?

Joe Paterno? Wait you said he had to have a pulse.

The Sugar Bowl will be a lot less interesting if Kelly goes. Florida could be suffering through facing lowered expectations, see 'Bama in the Sugar last year. With Kelly gone and his players getting walked out on for the 2nd time in recent history after their coach stated they weren't going anywhere, they might mail it in as well.
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We'd be overjoyed to send Bill Lynch north to take the job.

The Sugar Bowl will be a lot less interesting if Kelly goes.

I think Kelly and Meyer should just make a bet that the loser has to take the ND job. Then the Sugar Bowl would be really interesting.

I think Kelly and Meyer should just make a bet that the loser has to take the ND job. Then the Sugar Bowl would be really interesting.

Gold :D

SI

So Tim Brewster is the new hot name with Kansas. Truthfully it seems to be the best fit considering he was at UT, he recruits Texas hard and knows the Big 12.

He's done a good job so far at Minny, and that is comparable gig to Kansas if you ask me.

So Tim Brewster is the new hot name with Kansas. Truthfully it seems to be the best fit considering he was at UT, he recruits Texas hard and knows the Big 12.

He's done a good job so far at Minny, and that is comparable gig to Kansas if you ask me.

As a follow up to this, I have read several Minnesota fans are saying Brewster is using KU as a way to leverage himself into another job (namely Illinois if it comes open) and that the AD has said as much.

Mckerney or Sov or any other Goph fans, any truth here?

What has Brewster done at Minny? Compile a 500 record? I guess that is above average for the Gophers. Great job Brewster.