I just did a search and only found one casual mention of Amanda Knox here at FOFC. Really? A solid B+ 21-year old chick murders her roomate in Italy while high on dope and not a peep from you guys?

By the way, learned about the case exactly an hour ago. I guess we all have some catching up to do.

Nice looking girl, too bad she kills people.

How Strong Is the Evidence Against Amanda Knox? - TIME (http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1904571,00.html)

Again with the lack of pictures. Thanks RomaGoth.

She, like this story, is full on "meh" for me.

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2007/11_02/005knox_228x315.jpg

Again with the lack of pictures. Thanks RomaGoth.

The link sends you to a picture of her. But, here is another one...

wasn't it worse than that sgran - i think the "murder" happened as part of some like...kinky three-way, from what i remember reading briefly

I know that's why I thanked you ;-)

Nobody knows what happened because everyone keeps changing their story. First it was the guy who owned the bar. No, wait, it wasn't him. It was some Italian dude. No, wait, I was high and don't remember anything. The Italian press has been running wild with speculation based on some manga comics found in the boyfriend's pad and Knox's lurid MySpace page. Simply awesome!

Nobody knows what happened because everyone keeps changing their story. First it was the guy who owned the bar. No, wait, it wasn't him. It was some Italian dude. No, wait, I was high and don't remember anything. The Italian press has been running wild with speculation based on some manga comics found in the boyfriend's pad and Knox's lurid MySpace page. Simply awesome!

This will be on Lifetime within two days of a verdict...

Again with the lack of pictures.

I knew someone'd have my back.

Do we need a "Can a murderer be hot? Sgran says Yes!!"

The Italian prosecutor is alleging that the murder came after the victim refused to join in some 4-way sex session. Much has been made in this case of serious flaws in the evidence and the serious shortcomings of the Perugian Police's forensics team. The TIME article spells it out pretty well. If that article is accurate, this case would have been dismissed in the US months ago. Of course, in the US Knox wouldn't have been held in prison for 8 months without any charges, either.

When I first heard about this case, I started off thinking that she was clearly guilty and it was a sordid story. A couple of months later I heard another report and was convinced that the prosecutor clearly fixed the case.

Now I have no idea what to think anymore.

lurid myspace page?

I have to think that all 3 were involved, but it's anyone's guess what actually went down. Guede, the Ivory Coast immigrant, was picked up on a train to Germany. They found his semen in and on the victim. Contrary to the reports by CSI: Seattle, most are convinced that the murder weapon was the Italian dude's knife, and his only alibi is Knox, who has changed her story several and now claims she was roughed up by the police. The front door was locked and they (okay, allegedly) staged a break-in through a window.
Look, maybe she's innocent, but it sure reminds me of the OJ trial. Maybe they can get her to hold up a small pair of gloves.

Oh yeah, and the Italian dude's family is well connected. They caught his sister, who is on some local council or something (sorry, doing this from memory) making a phone call suggesting that they pay off the cops to get them to taint the evidence.

Can we focus on the important aspects here. Like this
|
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\/lurid myspace page?

If you scroll down this link you can find a screen shot of a story she posted on MySpace. I hurt my eyes trying to read it: Amanda Knox (http://www.mahalo.com/amanda-knox)

You think you want to bang the hot crazy chick, but believe me, you really don't.

Looks like we need to pull this out.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nX2riGFNTbU/SMXIW7LeVMI/AAAAAAAAAEs/PXVdMIGzMNM/s400/HIMYM___Hot_Crazy_Scale_by_JeremyX103.jpg

Looks like we need to pull this out.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nX2riGFNTbU/SMXIW7LeVMI/AAAAAAAAAEs/PXVdMIGzMNM/s400/HIMYM___Hot_Crazy_Scale_by_JeremyX103.jpg

:lol:

lurid myspace page?
Does this mean there are myspace pages that aren't lurid?

Looks like we need to pull this out.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nX2riGFNTbU/SMXIW7LeVMI/AAAAAAAAAEs/PXVdMIGzMNM/s400/HIMYM___Hot_Crazy_Scale_by_JeremyX103.jpg

absolute classic piece of Americana

Everybody's obviously lying about something, the only question is what.

Everybody's obviously lying about something, the only question is what.

My guess is they are lying about what was used to kill her by whom at what time.

My guess is they are lying about what was used to kill her by whom at what time.

Communism, though, is certainly just a red herring.

Italy is absolutely packed with beautiful women.....I can't understand why the Italian media is captivated by "Foxy Knox"...who is cute, but nothing more.

Italy is absolutely packed with beautiful women.....I can't understand why the Italian media is captivated by "Foxy Knox"...who is cute, but nothing more.

Because there is sex and murder involved.

Because there is sex and murder involved.

Silly me and my mixed up priorities. :)

absolute classic piece of Americana

The only question is how hot would she have to be in order for you to be willing to have sex with a murderous lunatic? That is the timeless question that Basic Instinct posed to us, and only Barney has dared to provide a scientific means of answering it.

The only question is how hot would she have to be in order for you to be willing to have sex with a murderous lunatic? That is the timeless question that Basic Instinct posed to us, and only Barney has dared to provide a scientific means of answering it.

You mean this Barney?

...or this Barney?

I think these Barneys display the spectrum of responses to the Hot Crazy scale. The first wouldn't have sex with anyone the slightest bit crazy. The second would have sex with anyone.

It's big news here, but I guess that's to be expected.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hsvvOEos7u8/Sc0ws4S-C5I/AAAAAAAAADE/8bKVblu1YSU/s400/Amanda+Knox+1.jpg
http://msnbcmedia2.msn.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/090116-amanda-knox-vmed-245a.widec.jpg
http://www.independent.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00113/pg-18-foxy-afp-gett_113558t.jpg
http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2009/01/13/article-1114322-022969B2000005DC-670_468x349.jpg

She's not necessarily hot, but she's really cute. Really cute is more trouble than hot in my opinion.

My guess is they are lying about what was used to kill her by whom at what time.

Candlestick.
Library.
Miss Scarlett.

She just looks crazy. I mean, damn, just look in her eyes in some of these pics.

She just looks crazy. I mean, damn, just look in her eyes in some of these pics.

That's what gets me too. Eyes are big to me anything, and some of those pics just scream "I'm getting away with this you fuckers!"


For those that do like her, she's got porn star in her future I think.

You guys are great. That girls shows up at your door with a vampire manga comic and suggests you try out some of the poses and you'd say, "sorry, but I don't like that look in your eyes."

You guys are great. That girls shows up at your door with a vampire manga comic and suggests you try out some of the poses and you'd say, "sorry, but I don't like that look in your eyes."


Not at all, we'd fuck the shit out of her but you can be damned sure there would be something nearby....just in case...BECAUSE of that look in her eyes ;)

Not at all, we'd fuck the shit out of her but you can be damned sure there would be something nearby....just in case...BECAUSE of that look in her eyes ;)

Screwing her with somebody nearby ... isn't that how this trouble started in the first place?

I just did a search and only found one casual mention of Amanda Knox here at FOFC. Really? A solid B+ 21-year old chick murders her roomate in Italy while high on dope and not a peep from you guys?

By the way, learned about the case exactly an hour ago. I guess we all have some catching up to do.


My search found no mention of Amanda Knox - not even a casual one. I must be slipping x 2.

Looks like we need to pull this out.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_nX2riGFNTbU/SMXIW7LeVMI/AAAAAAAAAEs/PXVdMIGzMNM/s400/HIMYM___Hot_Crazy_Scale_by_JeremyX103.jpg

Classic!

Screwing her with somebody nearby ... isn't that how this trouble started in the first place?



Something != someone

I'd recommend a large knife then. Just hope you get to it first.

You guys are great. That girls shows up at your door with a vampire manga comic and suggests you try out some of the poses and you'd say, "sorry, but I don't like that look in your eyes."

All this tells me is that you've never slept with a crazy girl. That part is fun, but not fun enough to offset the aftermath.

All this tells me is that you've never slept with a crazy girl. That part is fun, but not fun enough to offset the aftermath.

Ding Ding Ding. I guess some of here have went through that experience, and it's not worth it at all.

You guys are great. That girls shows up at your door with a vampire manga comic and suggests you try out some of the poses and you'd say, "sorry, but I don't like that look in your eyes."

Win.

Some dude in the New York Times wrote a blog piece essentially saying "she's much too pretty and white like my daughter to have done this."

An Innocent Abroad - Timothy Egan Blog - NYTimes.com (http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/10/an-innocent-abroad/)

Candlestick.
Library.
Miss Scarlett.

Miss Knox has nothing on Miss Scarlett...

Way more partial to pre-work Scarlett.

In an unrelated note: Prisons abroad have beauty pageants.

Beauty Behind Bars | Newsweek Newsweek Culture | Newsweek.com (http://www.newsweek.com/id/53807)

Probably not in Italy, tho.

In an unrelated note: Prisons abroad have beauty pageants.

Beauty Behind Bars | Newsweek Newsweek Culture | Newsweek.com (http://www.newsweek.com/id/53807)

Probably not in Italy, tho.

Wow, what a bunch of fuglies...I am assuming that whomever wins gets added time in the hole? :D

Way more partial to pre-work Scarlett.

Her boobs actually look smaller here, or is it just me?

Some dude in the New York Times wrote a blog piece essentially saying "she's much too pretty and white like my daughter to have done this."

An Innocent Abroad - Timothy Egan Blog - NYTimes.com (http://egan.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/10/an-innocent-abroad/)

I love how he just completely whitewashes her conflicting stories by saying "of course she forgot where she was the night before -- she'd smoked hash." I don't know about you guys, but I would have to be pretty stoned to forget having witnessed a murder.

lurid myspace page?

http://www.myspace.com/foxyknoxy03

looks like someone has done some editing.

So then what the hell happened? How about his: all four get high. Knox and Sollecitogo leave to get it on in her bedroom while Guede puts the moves on Kercher. She's not having it so he date-rapes her. She's trying to scream but he's choking her to keep her quiet. He crushes her windpipe. He runs to get Knox and Soll and they all freak out. They decide to stage the break-in and Soll gets his knife out to make it seem like a burgler slit her throat. They try to get a story together, but they're high and nervous and freaking out, so of course they can't keep the story straight.

Here is some background reading for those unfamiliar with the state of Italian-American relationships: European Men Are So Much More Romantic Than American Men vs. American Women Studying In Europe Are Unbelievably Easy | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34198)

Here is some background reading for those unfamiliar with the state of Italian-American relationships: European Men Are So Much More Romantic Than American Men vs. American Women Studying In Europe Are Unbelievably Easy | The Onion - America's Finest News Source (http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34198)

That was great. I think part of the "easiness" comes from the fact that the girls are essentially on vacation. I'm sure people who live in the Caribbean have similar stories about spring break girls.

You guys are great. That girls shows up at your door with a vampire manga comic and suggests you try out some of the poses and you'd say, "sorry, but I don't like that look in your eyes."
wow never seen someone on the internet say this before

So then what the hell happened? How about his: all four get high. Knox and Sollecitogo leave to get it on in her bedroom while Guede puts the moves on Kercher. She's not having it so he date-rapes her. She's trying to scream but he's choking her to keep her quiet. He crushes her windpipe. He runs to get Knox and Soll and they all freak out. They decide to stage the break-in and Soll gets his knife out to make it seem like a burgler slit her throat. They try to get a story together, but they're high and nervous and freaking out, so of course they can't keep the story straight.

It doesn't explain her bizarre behavior. They said she was doing cartwheels at the police station and during the entire trial she's been making romantic gestures to the boyfriend.

Clearly, at best, she's unstable.

Miss Knox has nothing on Miss Scarlett...

Just to start constructing the graph, even if Scarlett was a crazy murderer I would do it. So plot that point.

When you've slept with a crazy woman once, I think you learn enough to avoid sleeping with crazy women again.

When you've slept with a crazy woman once, I think you learn enough to avoid sleeping with crazy women again.




NNNNNNNNNNNGNGGGGGNNNGNGNGNGGNG



Wrong answer.

Candlestick.
Library.
Miss Scarlett.

Damn, this is what happens when I get stuck at work and can't check FOFC for a couple of days. I saw that post as a perfect lead-in to a Clue joke as well but JIMGA beat me to it :D

SI

Guilty

Italian jury finds Amanda Knox guilty of murdering British roommate - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/04/italy.knox.trial/index.html)

I'm only read the mainstream articles on this, but it seemed like a pretty weak case.

You guys are great. That girls shows up at your door with a vampire manga comic and suggests you try out some of the poses and you'd say, "sorry, but I don't like that look in your eyes."

I'd look at her and be like "Um, no. You're probably a Stephanie Meyer fanatic and you're not hot enough to overcome that stain. Come back when you actually develop some taste."

Guilty

Italian jury finds Amanda Knox guilty of murdering British roommate - CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/12/04/italy.knox.trial/index.html)

I'm only read the mainstream articles on this, but it seemed like a pretty weak case.

Obviously huge news here. The evidence was weak as hell, the jury didn't even ask to be sequestered and deliberated for all of about 20 hours.

No way she is convicted if this is the states. Now granted, she may not be innocent in all this, but no way in hell was her guilt proven beyond a reasonible doubt.

Obviously huge news here. The evidence was weak as hell, the jury didn't even ask to be sequestered and deliberated for all of about 20 hours.

No way she is convicted if this is the states. Now granted, she may not be innocent in all this, but no way in hell was her guilt proven beyond a reasonible doubt.

Ain't that the truth. Annoying as hell, I couldn't care less about this story.

But it's not all about me, I guess. Pity.

They should let her go because she is photogenic. Seriously.

One thing in Italy is the media. Here, you can either get you're case moved, re-tried, or dismissed if they feel that the media and leaks has tainted. Not so in Italy.

Maybe she should hook up with Tiger.

A real country would have tortured her and then put her before a military tribunal.

A real country would have tortured her and then put her before a military tribunal.

The parallels are uncanny!

When you've slept with a crazy woman once, I think you learn enough to avoid sleeping with crazy women again.


Quite the opposite, once you sleep with a true psycho...you know better than to go back, but it is so....uhhhh everythignt hat you cant help it. That si where they named crack...its the only thing close to as addictive as, well crack.

Maybe this convication and 26 year sentence is Amanda Knox's way of taking one for the team to distract us all from the escalation in Afghanistan. (See Tiger and Afghanistan thread).

When you've slept with a crazy woman once, I think you learn enough to avoid sleeping with crazy women again.

Quite the opposite, once you sleep with a true psycho...you know better than to go back, but it is so....uhhhh everythignt hat you cant help it.

Both these statements can be true -- you know better than to go back but you can't help it UNTIL you learn enough to avoid sleeping with crazy women.

So is the consensus out there that she is guilty or not?

From what I've read in a short time, there isn't enough evidence for me to convict someone of murder. But I'd also put my money on the fact she was involved in some way.

Didn't she confess and then had it thrown out?

I have no doubt she was involved somehow. Now whether or not she helped to murder her or helped to cleanup, I have no idea. That said, her changing her story is not a big deal if the evidence has nothing on her. However, with just a tad of evidence a changing story takes on a whole new meaning.

So is the consensus out there that she is guilty or not?

From what I've read in a short time, there isn't enough evidence for me to convict someone of murder. But I'd also put my money on the fact she was involved in some way.

Didn't she confess and then had it thrown out?

According to 20/20 she was asked to describe what she would've done if she were there...or something to that fact. She was questioned possibly under the influence, with no lawyer, no translator, for 40+ hours. I guess it sucks to be in jail in Italy.

I have no doubt she was involved somehow. Now whether or not she helped to murder her or helped to cleanup, I have no idea. That said, her changing her story is not a big deal if the evidence has nothing on her. However, with just a tad of evidence a changing story takes on a whole new meaning.

She did change her story several times, even when not under the influence. And they had some DNA on the alleged murder weapon.

She may not have done the actual killing, but if she was involved in any cleaning or coverup, she was a coconspirator. I don't know how it is in Italy, but here, that makes you culpable for the underlying offense.

I'm amazed at the moral outrage by some in the media to portray this as an American being railroaded. It's this year's "damsel in distress" story.

According to 20/20 she was asked to describe what she would've done if she were there...or something to that fact. She was questioned possibly under the influence, with no lawyer, no translator, for 40+ hours. I guess it sucks to be in jail in Italy.

The no translator is new. I saw an interview with her dad where he said that she told him that the translator was not interpreting correctly and was biased.

According to 20/20 she was asked to describe what she would've done if she were there...or something to that fact. She was questioned possibly under the influence, with no lawyer, no translator, for 40+ hours. I guess it sucks to be in jail in Italy.

So she was asked what she would have done if she had killed him? So what you're saying is...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b9/If_I_Did_It.jpg

SI

Is the court system in Italy corrupt and a "free-for-all", or is it just run in another way?

Is the court system in Italy corrupt and a "free-for-all", or is it just run in another way?


Both, but leaning to being run in another way

I'm always suspicious of someone changing their story. I mean if you were not home, why change your story?

But it does seem like the Italian system is pretty fucked up and that the DA is a sociopath. Also seems to be a lot of anti-American sentiment involved.

I wonder if Obama is going to get involved in this at all?

Nah, their system is based on the Napoleonic Code, as far as I recall. Not fucked up, just different

It looks to me like you have been swindled, baby, and when you're swindled under the Napoleonic code, I'm swindled too. And I don't like to be swindled.

I wonder if Obama is going to get involved in this at all?

They already convicted a black guy. I think he's safe.

I think the OJ parallels are appropriate in that there was a lot of circumstantial evidence that she was heavily involved and no other plausible explanation. It then became a test of the judicial system for what you do in a case like this. OJ's lawyers won a legal battle that Knox's lawyer couldn't. It also didn't help that the boyfriend's family was caught trying to tamper with the evidence.

Personally, I think the simplest story is probably true: they decided to do something "fun", took some drugs, and things got out of hand. Maybe the victim started threatening them and they panicked.

I think the OJ parallels are appropriate in that there was a lot of circumstantial evidence that she was heavily involved and no other plausible explanation. It then became a test of the judicial system for what you do in a case like this. OJ's lawyers won a legal battle that Knox's lawyer couldn't. It also didn't help that the boyfriend's family was caught trying to tamper with the evidence.



Without knowing much about the case, the other plausible explanation seems to be the African guy who was there, and had sex with the victim shortly before she died, acted alone.

Though, I didn't know about the boyfriend's family tampering with the evidence. All I've really heard about the evidence implicating Knox & Boyfriend were some violent comic books and fingerprints on a knife that didn't seem to match the wounds on the victim. And Knox's shadiness in changing the story - though I thought that was determined to be inadmissable.

So is the consensus out there that she is guilty or not?

I'm not sure there's any consensus, per se. On one hand, it's pretty clear to even the most casual observer that neither the investigation nor the trial were handled in a particularly objective manner. On the other hand, it's also pretty clear to a relatively casual observer that even in the best possible light it's hard to conclude that Knox wasn't involved in some way.

I'm not sure the rather obvious fuckups in the investigation and trial of this case are specific to Italian justice, however. After all, it's not as if we don't execute innocent people in this country. (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann)

After all, it's not as if we don't execute innocent people in this country. (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann)


Thanks for posting this.
I just read the entire article and would never have stumbled across it, if not for here.

That is an excellent piece of writing and a very powerful portrait it paints.

I'm always suspicious of someone changing their story. I mean if you were not home, why change your story?

Because you don't want Mom and Dad to know that your year studying abroad to expand your horizons was so focused on expanding your sexual horizons?

good read that article, tough

CU Tiger - you're welcome, and thanks for the kind words.

Looks like the prosecutor is going to end up in jail with Knox. Interesting to see if that helps her on appeal.

Amanda Knox May be Joined in Jail by Giuliano Mignini, the Prosecutor That Put Her There - Crimesider - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/12/07/crimesider/entry5928444.shtml)

Maybe the prosecutor belongs in jail for the way he handled the case?

Jailed mobster claims he can prove Amanda Knox is innocent (http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/06/11/amanda.knox/index.html?eref=igoogle_cnn)

I just read that too.

That would be a pretty amazing turn of events. Even though the guy is a convicted mobster, they need to check him out.

My guess is the Italian government will ignore it just like they ignored all the other evidence (or lack of) showing she was innocent. This whole trial was a farce from the start and I doubt the Italians are going to backtrack and admit they were wrong.

The Italian woman that killed my best friend in a drunk driving accident is already out and about...so this hardly surprises me.

Italy seems like they have a justice system bordering on Third World status.

Just don't make fun of the Catholic church there or your ass will be in jail before you can say pedophile.

Anticipatory bump.

I was surprised nobody else had. Looks like verdict will come in today (but no earlier than 2pm ET).

CNN says 3:30 EST.

Not guilty.

Free to go but she owes some dude some money

justice served

justice served
Seems that way, but I'm curious to know what it means for Knox that the defamation charge was not overturned.

Seems that way, but I'm curious to know what it means for Knox that the defamation charge was not overturned.

Not a lot as she has already served the sentence that was passed for that.

Seems that way, but I'm curious to know what it means for Knox that the defamation charge was not overturned.

I guess during the interrogation she implicated some dude so she has to pay for all his fees etc.

Cue the book + reality show + appearance on non-Oprah.

So wait, this means she's hot, but not crazy threesome hot?

That's disappointing.

Cue the book + reality show + appearance on non-Oprah.

The announcment triggered a heated debat at work as to whether or not it would be worth going to prison in Italy for 4 years to get the millions she has coming to her.

The announcment triggered a heated debat at work as to whether or not it would be worth going to prison in Italy for 4 years to get the millions she has coming to her.

It's a women's prison in Italy. We've all seen those movies.

If it's a womans prison then I'd have to say I'd do it.

So wait, this means she's hot, but not crazy threesome hot?

That's disappointing.

If you get put into jail for expected murder, you had to do something wrong.

The announcment triggered a heated debat at work as to whether or not it would be worth going to prison in Italy for 4 years to get the millions she has coming to her.

I guess if you were poor, maybe. But otherwise? Hell to the no. And it's such a fluke, because just as easy as they said non-guilty, they could've kept her ass there longer. And as those guys who get released here due to DNA evidence...no way that it's worth the years of hell that you lose. But she's still young and can tell her story, etc., so I dunno.

I guess if you were poor, maybe. But otherwise? Hell to the no. And it's such a fluke, because just as easy as they said non-guilty, they could've kept her ass there longer. And as those guys who get released here due to DNA evidence...no way that it's worth the years of hell that you lose. But she's still young and can tell her story, etc., so I dunno.
I think a good test is this - how many people here were convinced that the murder conviction would be overturned? I had maybe 60% confidence. What I've learned about the Italian justice system did not give me a lot of confidence in their ability to get the correct ruling.

I'm guessing Knox broke Twitter?

edit: Eh, back up.

So wait, this means she's hot, but not crazy threesome hot?

That's disappointing.

Her and Casey Anthony is a "not guilty of murder but still crazy" three-way.

The show someone is dreaming up with Knox, Casey Anthony, Kate Gosselin, and Octomom... I wonder if negative TV ratings are possible?

The show someone is dreaming up with Knox, Casey Anthony, Kate Gosselin, and Octomom... I wonder if negative TV ratings are possible?

Negative ratings ? it will be the most popular show on Spike TV!

Negative ratings ? it will be the most popular show on Spike TV!
Now that's a Charlie's Angels remake I could get into... :p

No one will touch Kasey Anthony with a 50-foot pole, Gosselin is terminally unlikeable, and Octomom's last publicity was about wishing her kids were dead.

Shouldn't Kate Gosselin be the Octomom? Maybe the two of them should have some sort of competition to decide who deserves the title of Octomom.

I wonder if negative TV ratings are possible?

See: CW

I guess during the interrogation she implicated some dude so she has to pay for all his fees etc.

I didn't know defamation was a criminal matter; I always thought it was a civil case. Unless it's the same as lying under oath?

I didn't know defamation was a criminal matter; I always thought it was a civil case. Unless it's the same as lying under oath?

Italian law.

Amanda Knox -- Guilty of a Poor Costume Choice | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/31/amanda-knox-halloween-costume-cat-burglar-video-photos-tmz-on-tv/#.TsGlBEMr2dA)

Amanda Knox -- Guilty of a Poor Costume Choice | TMZ.com (http://www.tmz.com/2011/10/31/amanda-knox-halloween-costume-cat-burglar-video-photos-tmz-on-tv/#.TsGlBEMr2dA)
Or maybe she's supporting Movember...?

...or this Barney?


Or...
http://doddererscaptainsblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/barney-rubble1.gif

So Italy is trying to get a re-trail of the case? I guess Italy's Supreme Court rules on it tomorrow.

So Italy is trying to get a re-trail of the case? I guess Italy's Supreme Court rules on it tomorrow.

That would really suck for her. Even if the US says.."no no we believe in the principle of No Double Jeopardy"*, and doesn't extradite her, she won't be really comfortable traveling abroad ever again for fear of arrest.

*Asterisk because if you really piss people off in a way that brings media attention, we'll try you on federal charges and just rename the offenses.

It sounds like its just a higher appellate court, so it wouldn't implicate even American-style double jeopardy, if they have such a thing. She wasn't acquitted, the conviction was thrown out at the intermediate appellate level. Like if the 9th circuit court of appeals throws out your conviction the United States Supreme Court could put it back in place.

If it was me, I would never travel abroad again anyway.

Hopefully this court isn't stupid.

It sounds like its just a higher appellate court, so it wouldn't implicate even American-style double jeopardy, if they have such a thing. She wasn't acquitted, the conviction was thrown out at the intermediate appellate level. Like if the 9th circuit court of appeals throws out your conviction the United States Supreme Court could put it back in place.

This.

And honestly, I was shocked that she walked in the first place. I'll be surprised if a higher court doesn't deal with what appeared to be an appeals court bowing to media pressure.

This.

And honestly, I was shocked that she walked in the first place. I'll be surprised if a higher court doesn't deal with what appeared to be an appeals court bowing to media pressure.

why are you shocked? The crooked Italian proscecuter botched the case big time. The Knox family anticipated this happening and I would be shocked if the US Gonvernment hands her over given how poorly the original case was tried while she sat in jail for 4 years.

why are you shocked? The crooked Italian proscecuter botched the case big time. The Knox family anticipated this happening and I would be shocked if the US Gonvernment hands her over given how poorly the original case was tried while she sat in jail for 4 years.

Why? I believe the bitch is guilty as hell, and only walked away from it because an appeals court got unnerved by media coverage & general all purpose whining.

Everything I've read to date leaves me believing she's as guilty as Casey Anthony.

Not sure the courts were bowing to media pressure, a lot of the European media was against the acquittal of Amanda Knox.

The Italian legal system is a joke, so whatever happens we should not be surprised. I reckon this will go on for years, no matter what the result of this particular case is

ROME (AP) - Italy's highest criminal court on Tuesday overturned Amanda Knox's acquittal in the slaying of her British roommate and ordered a new trial, prolonging a case that has become a cause celebre in the United States.

Knox called the decision "painful" but said she was confident that she would be exonerated.

Italian law cannot compel Knox to return for the new trial, and her lawyer said she had no plans to do so. The appellate court hearing the new case could declare her in contempt of court but that carries no additional penalties.

Italy's Court of Cassation ruled that an appeals court in Florence must re-hear the case against the American student and her former Italian boyfriend for the murder of 21-year-old Meredith Kercher. The exact issues that have to be reconsidered won't be known until the court releases its full ruling within 90 days.

This case and the one of Blade Runner in South Africa make me think that maybe our judicial system isn't as bad as I think it is.

Didn't they already convict the drifter guy of the murder?

Amanda Knox imagines life in prison with 'letter to my unborn child' - TODAY.com (http://www.today.com/news/amanda-knox-imagines-life-prison-letter-my-unborn-child-4B11207810)

Astrid lolz.

Still pretty sure she has no soul.

Astrid lolz.

"Starts with an 'A'"
"Asterisk"
"Astro"
"Asteroid"
"Astringent"
"Asprin"

Amanda Knox imagines life in prison with 'letter to my unborn child' - TODAY.com (http://www.today.com/news/amanda-knox-imagines-life-prison-letter-my-unborn-child-4B11207810)

Wtf

Still pretty sure she has no soul.

Yeah. Not sure whether she killed this guy or not or what the actual evidence shows.

But I am pretty sure that she could kill a guy much more easily than most people could.

What's that line from the beginning of Shawshank? "You're an icy and remorseless man, Mr. Dufrene, and it chills my blood just to look at you." Pretty much how Knox comes off to me.

Amanda Knox found guilty again in Italian murder case (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/01/30/amanda-knox-court-verdict-italy-appeal/5049041/)

What a fucked-up judicial system they have.

What a fucked-up judicial system they have.

And I was thinking how nice it was to see a court get something right for a change.

Go figure ;)

And I was thinking how nice it was to see a court get something right for a change.

Go figure ;)

Not sure how close you followed the case but it's been a cluster from the start. Could she be guilty ? Sure. Beyond a resknable doubt. No way.

The prosecution has gone from saying she was killed in a sex game gone wrong, to now she was killed after an argument over an unflushed toilet.

The prosecution has gone from saying she was killed in a sex game gone wrong, to now she was killed after an argument over an unflushed toilet.

Maybe it was a sex game with an unflushed toilet.

Note that I dont ever want to play that game.

"Italy would usually refuse to extradite someone convicted of murder to the U.S. based on human rights grounds, because of the death penalty," said Argia Bignami, a Rome-based attorney and frequent commentator on criminal justice issues. "But that is not relevant for an extradition request to Italy from the U.S."

I'd say it is relevant. if there's a precedent for refusing to extradite due to differences in opinion about legal systems, then that should work both ways. And I'd say there's quite a few differences in opinion between the U.S. and Italy regarding how criminal trials work.

I'm about 55% sure she's guilty of some crime related to the murder. It annoys me that the Idaho Innocence project has declared her exonerated based on the fact that Kercher's DNA wasn't found on the alleged murder weapon. It's evidence useful to the defense, but obviously Kercher was killed by some means, and it certainly doesn't prove that Knox had nothing to do with it. I could give you a huge list of other faulty "exonerations" set forth by innocence groups, but that's a rant for another time.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QsrI7kwZuLA/UY28AvL0cuI/AAAAAAAALdo/PeYi6rrkDPU/s1600/knox.jpg

Not sure how close you followed the case but it's been a cluster from the start. Could she be guilty ? Sure. Beyond a resknable doubt. No way.

{shrug} I don't find any reasonable doubt. She's like a better traveled version of Casey Anthony to me (obviously with a different victim)

It is unlikely that Knox, who lives in Seattle, Washington, will return to Italy to serve additional prison time because U.S. law dictates that a person cannot be tried twice on the same charge, a legal expert told CNN. He believes that if Italy were to ask for extradition, U.S. officials would deny the request.

So apparently, refusal of extradition goes both ways...

I've read a little more about the procedure of this case and remembered again that the double jeopardy question is not so obvious.

In the U.S. of course, you can't be retried after a jury acquits you. But Knox has never been acquitted by a jury. She was convicted at trial, and then an appellate court overruled that, tried her themselves, and found that she was not guilty. Then another appellate retrial, in a higher appellate court, found her guilty, and essentially reinstated the trial verdict.

In the U.S., appellate courts don't re-try people. But in the U.S., if someone is found guilty at trial, and an intermediate appellate court throws out the conviction, a higher appellate court can overrule that and reinstate the original conviction. You could made the argument that that's the equivalent of what happened here.

I don't think she'll be extradited though. That'd just be too ugly

Yeah, it isn't really double jeopardy, but I don't think there is much of a chance she's extradited due to the way the criminal case has been handled.

I think it would be amusing fallout if they sent some goombas over to do a snatch and grab and her ass woke up in a roman prison.

I often wonder if the people doing the interviews with alleged killers fear for their own safety. The woman interviewing her is sitting like 10 feet away.

And I was thinking how nice it was to see a court get something right for a change.

Go figure ;)

I don't know how anyone can come to that conclusion after reading about the prosecutor and their case. After reading through their accounts of what happened you have to kind of laugh at their judicial system.

Forgetting about if she's guilty or not, is it technically double jeopardy anyway?


1)Found Guilty
2)Appealed. Found Innocent by Judge.
3)Supreme court rules that the Judge in the appeal court made fundamental mistakes (the statistics etc. ) so his ruling was overruled.

Is that technically the same as being tried twice?

I don't know how anyone can come to that conclusion after reading about the prosecutor and their case. After reading through their accounts of what happened you have to kind of laugh at their judicial system.

JMIG thinks everyone is guilty. Except him, because he's a special snowflake.

In reality, there's no solid evidence to tie Knox to the crime. No DNA. The DNA on the bra clasp was supposedly found after laying on the floor for 6 weeks - in fact, much of the supposed forensic evidence is highly suspect. The knife print didn't match. The footprints appeared to be staged. And the star "witness" was a heroin addict that had also somehow testified in two other murder trials for the police (what are the odds of witnessing 3 separate murders in the span of a year?). The entire narrative and motive of the case has been changed multiple times. The entire case stinks to high heaven and any competent attorney in a fair court system would have no problem getting this tossed out. This was and is a simple case of railroading. There was no doubt in my mind that they would "re-convict" her because it takes people's minds off the countries' domestic issues.

Of course, I can't laugh at their judicial system. There are more than enough cases of US prosecutors and judges railroading people through the system for personal and/or professional gain.

As far as Knox being extradited, there's also almost no chance of that. Polls in this country consistently show that people think Knox is innocent. The political outrage would be palpable and significant if we decided to let her be extradited.

I'm gonna just quote myself from 2009:

I'm not sure there's any consensus, per se. On one hand, it's pretty clear to even the most casual observer that neither the investigation nor the trial were handled in a particularly objective manner. On the other hand, it's also pretty clear to a relatively casual observer that even in the best possible light it's hard to conclude that Knox wasn't involved in some way.

I'm not sure the rather obvious fuckups in the investigation and trial of this case are specific to Italian justice, however. After all, it's not as if we don't execute innocent people in this country. (http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/09/07/090907fa_fact_grann)

...(what are the odds of witnessing 3 separate murders in the span of a year?).

Well, she is a heroin addict...

Forgetting about if she's guilty or not, is it technically double jeopardy anyway?


1)Found Guilty
2)Appealed. Found Innocent by Judge.
3)Supreme court rules that the Judge in the appeal court made fundamental mistakes (the statistics etc. ) so his ruling was overruled.

Is that technically the same as being tried twice?

The Italian courts don't have same the concept of double jeopardy as US courts. It is only considered double jeopardy in Italy once a final ruling has been made, and there hasn't been a final ruling in this case.

Appellate reversals in the United States tend not to implicate Double Jeopardy.

Say that I am tried and found guilty and the state's evidence includes my diary that they found when searching my bedroom. Then an appellate court says that the search violated the Fourth Amendment and the diary should have been excluded.

The state has the right, if it chooses, to try me again and just not use the diary.

With some exceptions, the general rule is that DJ protects you from being tried again after a jury has found you innocent or after the government moves to dismiss your case after a jury has been sworn in.

Watching the Amanda Knox doc on Netflix. I could have sworn it happened while I was in college. Nope, long after. I no longer have any concept of time in terms on when things happened in the past.

It was a pretty good doc though.

When it all happened I didn't pay much attention other than whatever the news had on at any particular time. I thought the doc was good and while I haven't spent much time thinking it over there are a couple of things that stick out.

It seemed there was no real evidence to pursue a case against Amanda or her boyfriend. I though it was a simple case of Gude (?) being caught doing a burglary and ended with the murder. How do they take his word that anybody else was involved?

The one thing that threw me was when Amanda first came home and the door was open. I would find that and a very quiet house a bit disconcerting. I know* I'd be looking in every room and if I found a locked bedroom door and no response I think I would call the cops and have them come and take a look. Her reaction after looking around and calling out her roommate's name and not getting a response (I don't think she had tried or found the bedroom door locked at this point) was I guess I'll take a shower? Then after seeing blood on the bathmat she calls her boyfriend? I'd think most girls would have called him at finding the open door and nobody around? I get we all do things differently I just found this odd.


*I actually had something similar happen about 30 years ago. Came home, door unlocked (always locked if I or the wife was not home) desktop phone off hook and receiver laying on the floor, wtf? House is dead silent, wife's car is parked on the street. Call out her name, no response. Look in all rooms on first level nothing else is out of place. Look upstairs and in basement, same all looks normal. Getting ready to call cops and the front door opens and my wife and a friend of hers come in. The friend has a 3 yr old. Turns out he must have been playing with the phone while they were in the kitchen. They decided to go somewhere and the wife simply forgot to lock the door:)