Does anybody have a clue how exactly this gets sorted?

Brian Shouse is a Type B free agent, while K-Rod is, apparently, neither Type A nor Type B. Why is that?

ESPN - MLB Baseball Free Agent Tracker, Major League Baseball Free Agents (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/features/freeagents?type=ranked&season=2008)

That's the list I'm going by as far as who qualifies as Type A or Type B, offhand. I'm seeing some other publications referring to him as Type A, but...

All players are put into one of the below groups (not just free agents) The player position is determined based on which position they played the most games at over the past two seasons.


Group 1: first basemen, outfielders, and designated hitters
Group 2: second basemen, third basemen, and shortstops
Group 3: catchers
Group 4: starters
Group 5: relievers Elias then uses the following stats categories for these positions to "rank" every player (not just free agents)


1B/OF/DH: PA, AVG, OBP, HR, RBI
2B/3B/SS: PA, AVG, OBP, HR, RBI, Fielding percentage, Total chances at designated position
C: PA, AVG, OBP, HR, RBI, Fielding percentage, Assists
SP: Total games (total starts + 0.5 * total relief appearances), IP, Wins, W-L Percentage, ERA, Strikeouts
RP: Total games (total relief appearances + 2 * total starts), IP (weighted slightly less than other categories), Wins + Saves, IP/H ratio, K/BB, ERAAfter that, you have:


"Type A” players: Ranked in the top 30 percent of players at their positions.
"Type B” players: Ranked below the top 30 percent but in the top 50 percent of players at their positions.
All other players, who carry no compensation at all. There had previously been a third class of “Type C” players, but that was eliminated in the new CBA.

RP: Total games (total relief appearances + 2 * total starts), IP (weighted slightly less than other categories), Wins + Saves, IP/H ratio, K/BB, ERA[/LIST]After that, you have:

Thanks.

Now I'm still wondering why Brian Shouse merits a 2nd round pick but K-Rod doesn't. Something doesn't add up, pardon the pun.

Unless ESPN just kinda "forgot" a guy who's had 102 saves over the last two years.

As for K-Rod, I'm not entirely sure why he is not listed as either Type A or B free agent though. I would think that he would have been at least a B if not an A.. but I haven't bothered digging through the numbers.

Does anybody have a clue how exactly this gets sorted?

Brian Shouse is a Type B free agent, while K-Rod is, apparently, neither Type A nor Type B. Why is that?


MLB has Elias determine who is slotted where based on your standard archaic stats (hr, rbi, ba) with slight variations on which stats are used based on position group.



EDIT: its Elias that slots them

Dola

Elias has K-Rod as a type A. ESPN must have overlooked him.

140 total relief appearances, 135.2 IP, 7 wins, 102 saves (total of 109), 104 hits surrendered (.77 hits/IP), 167 Ks, 68 walks (2.46 K's/BB) and ERA of 2.52 during that two year period. That's A-Rod.

Shouse had 99 IP in 142 appearances. 6 wins, 3 saves. 92 hits, or a .93 ratio. 65 Ks, 28 BBs, for a 2.32 rate. ERA of 2.91 in that two year span.

There is no metric in that calculation where Shouse has superior numbers. Something is wrong, either in terms of bookkeeping by ESPN or otherwise.

As for K-Rod, I'm not entirely sure why he is not listed as either Type A or B free agent though. I would think that he would have been at least a B if not an A.. but I haven't bothered digging through the numbers.


I have seen a few sites that list K-Rod as a type-A free agent. That might just be a mistake on that ESPN list.

It looks like they missed more players too. They don't have Burrell as an A or B either.

I read on metsblog.com that K-Rod isn't an A/B because the Angels didn't (or haven't yet) offered him arbitration, which is a requirement for receiving comp picks. I believe the deadline to offer arb is Dec 2nd.

I would expect they would offer him, but I can see the Phillies not offering Burrell for fear that he'll accept and they'll be stuck with him.

I read on metsblog.com that K-Rod isn't an A/B because the Angels didn't (or haven't yet) offered him arbitration, which is a requirement for receiving comp picks. I believe the deadline to offer arb is Dec 2nd.

I would expect they would offer him, but I can see the Phillies not offering Burrell for fear that he'll accept and they'll be stuck with him.

OK, but what happens if he signs before the Angels offer him arbitration? Seems a little weird to have the deadline for compensation be after the start of free agency.

If he signs before anyone offers arbitration it's like he turned it down.

So if a free agent signs on November 24, then his old team can offer arbitration to get the new team's first or second rounder, even though the player is already under a new contract?

No wonder Epstein was waiting on...was it Lugo, the other year?

OK, but what happens if he signs before the Angels offer him arbitration? Seems a little weird to have the deadline for compensation be after the start of free agency.

That's on the Angels, as nothing has stopped them from offering him arbitration besides not wanting to.

(again, I could be completely wrong on this :))

OK, but what happens if he signs before the Angels offer him arbitration? Seems a little weird to have the deadline for compensation be after the start of free agency.

A player signed before the deadline to offer arbitration is treated as if he was offered arbitration.

Dola

Elias has K-Rod as a type A. ESPN must have overlooked him.

Actually, this is typical ESPN behavior. They usually ignore anything associated with the Angels. ;)

What happens if you sign 3 or 4 type A's. Who get's the picks? I'd assume that each team losing a type A would get a sandwich pick, but what else would they get?

I'd guess the strongest type A would return a first round pick, but what about the rest of the order? Is it 2 sandwich picks or does a team losing a type A to a team with multiple type A signings just get screwed?

You can get bumped all the way down to receiving a 3rd, 4th, 5th round pick, etc. Sucks for that team. I'm not sure of how it's determined who gets the picks first, I don't think it's based on the player though, probably the team (as in they assign that team's picks away based on the prior season's records?).

What happens if you sign 3 or 4 type A's. Who get's the picks? I'd assume that each team losing a type A would get a sandwich pick, but what else would they get?

I'd guess the strongest type A would return a first round pick, but what about the rest of the order? Is it 2 sandwich picks or does a team losing a type A to a team with multiple type A signings just get screwed?

Well, the way the rule is written, you can only sign a certain number of Type A and B free agents, depending on the size of the Type A/B class. There are gradations up to 3 Type A/B signings allowable (and I think the class has to be between 32-63 members for 3 to be permissible, for example).

Exceptions incur if the team doing the signing has, themselves, lost multiple such free agents. Then they aren't bound by the limits.

I think that generally sandwich picks are involved, though. I don't think they step down to 3rd, 4th, and 5ths as Logan is suggesting.

What happens if you sign 3 or 4 type A's. Who get's the picks? I'd assume that each team losing a type A would get a sandwich pick, but what else would they get?

I'd guess the strongest type A would return a first round pick, but what about the rest of the order? Is it 2 sandwich picks or does a team losing a type A to a team with multiple type A signings just get screwed?picks 1-15 may not be awarded as compensation - in the event that the signing club owns a first round pick from 1-15, that team forfeits its second round pick rather than its first round pick. Additionally, if the signing club signs more than one Type A Free Agent, that signing team also must compensate the other Type A free agent's previous club with its second round pick, and a third round pick for a third signed Type A free agent, etc. The determination of which former team gets the higher compensation pick is based on the signing players' Elias rankings - the player with the highest ranking yields the highest pick to the that player’s former team.

....also....
Supplemental Round Order

<HR>Clubs that have lost a Type A Free Agent shall receive the first selections, in the reverse order of their win-loss percentage in the preceding season. Each team who lost a Type A player will pick once before any other team who lost a Type A Free Agent picks for a second time in the supplemental round, then if a team lost a second Type A Free Agent, it will pick again. (For example, if the NYY have the worst record in baseball and lose two Type A Free Agents, they would have the first sandwich pick, then all the other teams who lost Type A Free Agents will pick once, then the NYY would recieve their comp pick for the second Type A Free Agent). Following these selections, clubs that have lost a Type B Free Agent shall receive selections, in reverse order of their win-loss percentage from the preceding season, in the same fashion as the Type A comps.And also, this blog Detroit Tigers Thoughts: Projected Elias Rankings (http://tigers-thoughts.blogspot.com/2008/08/projected-elias-rankings.html) "cracked" the rankings if you want to look more in depth on the methodology or rankings.

Good stuff here. Thanks.