i copied and pasted this from my league's website, as i figured there might be others who feel like i do about the catch-up code in FOF2k4. i've lost 5 games in a row now by 3 points or less, 2 in OT, several after leading the game. i never complained before cuz in IHOF i would just look at my player's stats, but in my current league i actually watch the games and i'm seeing a pattern that i don't like.

scroll all the way down to read my rundown of how this went down (my team is California):

Possession to California.
Offense: I-Formation, Normal, Strength = Left.

Defense: 34 Alignment, Man-to-Man (Loose), Run - Normal. Blitzing: 59 Dotson.

1-10-CAL33 (01:53) CAL 49 Deason ran inside the left tackle for 7 yards.

Tackled by TEX 37 Trimble, assisted by TEX 77 Koonce.

Key block delivered by CAL 64 Daniels.

TEX called time out.


Offense: Single-Back Formation, TE Pairs, Strength = Left.

Defense: 34 Alignment, Man-to-Man (Loose), Run - Normal.

2-03-CAL40 (01:43) CAL 49 Deason ran outside the right tackle for 4 yards.

Tackled by TEX 97 Todd.

Key block delivered by CAL 50 Venegas.

TEX called time out.

--

Offense: Single-Back Formation, Normal, Strength = Right.

Defense: 34 Alignment, Man-to-Man (Bump & Run), Run - Normal.

1-10-CAL44 (01:36) CAL 49 Deason ran inside the left tackle for 2 yards.

Tackled by TEX 55 Calabrese, assisted by TEX 59 Dotson.

Penalty: TEX - Offsides.


Offense: Pro Formation, TE Pairs, Strength = Right.

Defense: 34 Alignment, Man-to-Man (Bump & Run), Run - Normal.

1-05-CAL49 (01:36) CAL 49 Deason ran inside the right guard for 2 yards.

Tackled by TEX 91 Bryant.

TEX called time out.


Offense: I-Formation, TE Pairs, Strength = Right.

Defense: 34 Alignment, Man-to-Man (Bump & Run), Run - Normal.

2-03-TEX49 (01:27) CAL 36 Lincoln ran inside the right guard for 5 yards.

Tackled by TEX 47 Pearl, assisted by TEX 37 Trimble.

Ball was fumbled and recovered by TEX 37 Trimble for 0 yards to the TEX44.


Possession to Texas.


Offense: I-Formation, Normal, Strength = Left.

Defense: 43 Alignment, 2-Deep Zone, Run - Aggressive.

1-10-TEX44 (01:21) TEX 1 Chung sacked by CAL 73 Mitchell for a loss of 5 yards.

Sack allowed by TEX 78 Duncan.

Mitchell ran right past TEX 78 Duncan.



Offense: Single-Back Formation, Four WR, Strength = Left.

Defense: 43 Alignment, Nickel Personnel, Man-to-Man (Loose), Pass - Aggressive.

2-15-TEX39 (01:02) TEX 1 Chung pass completed to 88 Ellison for 22 yards.

Tackled by CAL 29 Bruner.

Ellison gained 3 yards after the catch.

The quarterback threw away from the double coverage.

--

Offense: Single-Back Formation, Normal, Strength = Right.

Defense: 43 Alignment, Dime Personnel, Man-to-Man (Loose), Pass - Aggressive.

1-10-CAL39 (00:43) TEX 1 Chung spiked the ball to stop the clock.


Offense: I-Formation, Normal, Strength = Right.

Defense: 43 Alignment, Nickel Personnel, 2-Deep Zone, Pass - Aggressive.

2-10-CAL39 (00:38) TEX 1 Chung scrambled for 3 yards.

Tackled by CAL 59 Sisson.



Offense: Single-Back Formation, Normal, Strength = Left.

Defense: 43 Alignment, Nickel Personnel, Man-to-Man (Loose), Pass - Aggressive. Blitzing: 55 Mannino.

3-07-CAL36 (00:22) TEX 1 Chung spiked the ball to stop the clock.



Offense: I-Formation, Normal, Strength = Left.

Defense: 43 Alignment, Nickel Personnel, Man-to-Man (Loose), Pass - Aggressive.

4-07-CAL36 (00:17) TEX 1 Chung pass completed to 33 Deming for 8 yards (OOB).

Tackled by CAL 29 Bruner.

The receiver risked taking quite a hit in order to convert the play.

The quarterback threw away from the double coverage.

--

Offense: Pro Formation, Normal, Strength = Left.

Defense: 43 Alignment, Nickel Personnel, 2-Deep Zone, Pass - Aggressive.

1-10-CAL28 (00:10) TEX 1 Chung pass completed to 83 Hill for 28 yards and a touchdown!

Extra point by TEX 18 Tamaarkin was good.



Start of Overtime: California won the toss and elected to receive.


Beginning of Overtime 1.

*

Score: Texas 21, California 21.

TEX 18 Tamaarkin kicked off 64 yards from the TEX30.

CAL 22 Joe returned the ball 22 yards to the CAL28. Tackled by TEX 94 McKnight.

Ball was fumbled and recovered by CAL 39 Alicea for 0 yards to the CAL28.



Possession to California.



Offense: Single-Back Formation, Normal, Strength = Left.

Defense: 34 Alignment, 3-Deep Zone, Pass - Normal.

1-10-CAL28 (14:54) CAL 36 Lincoln ran inside the left guard for 8 yards (OOB).

Tackled by TEX 55 Calabrese, assisted by TEX 72 Russell.

Key block delivered by CAL 50 Venegas.


Offense: I-Formation, TE Pairs, Strength = Left.

Defense: 34 Alignment, Man-to-Man (Bump & Run), Run - Aggressive.

2-02-CAL36 (14:30) CAL 36 Lincoln ran inside the left guard for 2 yards.

Tackled by TEX 91 Bryant.

Key block delivered by CAL 74 Ricciardi.

--

Offense: Pro Formation, Normal, Strength = Right.

Defense: 34 Alignment, Nickel Personnel, Man-to-Man (Bump & Run), Pass - Normal. Blitzing: 97 Todd.

1-10-CAL38 (13:50) CAL 36 Lincoln ran inside the right guard for 4 yards.

Tackled by TEX 55 Calabrese.



Offense: I-Formation, TE Pairs, Strength = Left.

Defense: 34 Alignment, Nickel Personnel, 4-Deep Zone, Pass - Normal.

2-06-CAL42 (13:02) Penalty: CAL - False Start.



Offense: Single-Back Formation, Four WR, Strength = Right.

Defense: 34 Alignment, Man-to-Man (Loose), Pass - Aggressive.

2-11-CAL37 (12:53) CAL 17 Rockwell pass completed to 88 Torres for 13 yards.

Tackled by TEX 26 Causey.

Torres gained 4 yards after the catch.

--

Offense: Single-Back Formation, TE Pairs, Strength = Left.

Defense: 34 Alignment, Nickel Personnel, Man-to-Man (Loose), Pass - Aggressive. Blitzing: 59 Dotson.

1-10-CAL50 (12:11) CAL 49 Deason ran inside the left guard for 14 yards.

Tackled by TEX 35 Hampton, assisted by TEX 37 Trimble.

Key block delivered by CAL 74 Ricciardi.

--

Offense: Weak Formation, Normal, Strength = Left.

Defense: 34 Alignment, 2-Deep Zone, Run - Aggressive.

1-10-TEX36 (11:39) Penalty: CAL - False Start.



Offense: Single-Back Formation, Trips WR, Strength = Left.

Defense: 34 Alignment, Man-to-Man (Loose), Pass - Normal. Blitzing: 94 McKnight.

1-15-TEX41 (11:29) CAL 36 Lincoln ran inside the right guard for 2 yards.

Tackled by TEX 59 Dotson.



Offense: Single-Back Formation, Normal, Strength = Right.

Defense: 34 Alignment, 4-Deep Zone, Run - Aggressive.

2-13-TEX39 (11:04) CAL 17 Rockwell pass fell incomplete, intended for 81 Webster.

TEX 72 Russell hurried the quarterback into a bad throw.



Offense: Weak Formation, Three WR, Strength = Left.

Defense: 34 Alignment, Nickel Personnel, 3-Deep Zone, Pass - Normal.

3-13-TEX39 (10:52) CAL 17 Rockwell pass was overthrown, intended for 49 Deason.

The quarterback threw away from the double coverage.



Offense: Field Goal Formation.

4-13-TEX39 (10:47) CAL 7 Savage attempted a 56 yard field goal and missed short of the crossbar.


Possession to Texas.

*

Offense: Strong Formation, Three WR, Strength = Right.

Defense: 43 Alignment, 2-Deep Zone, Run - Normal. Blitzing: 55 Mannino.

1-10-TEX46 (10:42) TEX 33 Deming ran inside the right tackle for 9 yards.

Tackled by CAL 30 Fillmore, assisted by CAL 40 Gallant.

Key block delivered by TEX 51 Forest.



Offense: I-Formation, Normal, Strength = Right.

Defense: 43 Alignment, 3-Deep Zone, Pass - Normal. Blitzing: 55 Mannino, 53 Reilly.

2-01-CAL45 (10:04) TEX 36 Engleman ran outside the right tackle for 1 yard.

Tackled by CAL 59 Sisson, assisted by CAL 76 Banks.

Key block delivered by TEX 78 Duncan.

--

Offense: Five WR Spread Formation, Strength = Right.

Defense: 43 Alignment, 3-Deep Zone, Pass - Normal.

1-10-CAL44 (09:25) Penalty: CAL - Encroachment.



Offense: Strong Formation, Normal, Strength = Right.

Defense: 43 Alignment, Man-to-Man (Loose), Run - Aggressive.

1-05-CAL39 (09:16) TEX 36 Engleman ran inside the right tackle for 0 yards.

Tackled by CAL 29 Bruner, assisted by CAL 95 Napolitano.



Offense: Weak Formation, Normal, Strength = Left.

Defense: 43 Alignment, 3-Deep Zone, Run - Normal.

2-05-CAL39 (08:54) TEX 36 Engleman ran around left end for 2 yards.

Tackled by CAL 53 Reilly.



Offense: Single-Back Formation, Four WR, Strength = Left.

Defense: 43 Alignment, Nickel Personnel, Man-to-Man (Loose), Pass - Normal.

3-03-CAL37 (08:16) TEX 1 Chung pass completed to 88 Ellison for 7 yards.

Tackled by CAL 24 Traylor.

--

Offense: Pro Formation, Normal, Strength = Right.

Defense: 43 Alignment, 2-Deep Zone, Pass - Aggressive. Blitzing: 29 Bruner.
1-10-CAL30 (07:38) TEX 1 Chung sacked by CAL 29 Bruner for a loss of 7 yards.

Sack allowed by TEX 78 Duncan.


Offense: Strong Formation, Normal, Strength = Left.

Defense: 43 Alignment, 2-Deep Zone, Pass - Aggressive.

2-17-CAL37 (06:53) TEX 1 Chung pass completed to 33 Deming for 7 yards.

Tackled by CAL 59 Sisson.

Deming gained 9 yards after the catch.



Offense: Single-Back Formation, Four WR, Strength = Right.

Defense: 43 Alignment, Man-to-Man (Loose), Run - Normal. Blitzing: 30 Fillmore.

3-10-CAL30 (06:26) TEX 33 Deming ran inside the left guard for 1 yard.

Tackled by CAL 30 Fillmore, assisted by CAL 92 Jameson.

&CAL 93 Gilpin smashed through TEX 78 Duncan to dissolve the play.



Offense: Field Goal Formation.

4-09-CAL29 (06:01) TEX 18 Tamaarkin attempted a 46 yard field goal and succeeded.

ok, the rundown on this one is:
1. CAL gets the ball with a 7 point lead and 1:53 remaining in the 4th. TEX has 3 TOs left. fine. i was running the ball w/ success all game so i wasn't too concerned. even if they burned all 3 TOs after preventing me from getting my 1st down, they wouldn't have enough time/TOs to really go the whole length of the field. at least that was the conventional wisdom.

2. 1:36 remaining in the game, i picked up a 1st down and TEX burned their last TO. at this point the AI realizes i'm about to win this game so it goes Dungeon Master on my team to thwart events.

3. Dungeon Master causes a fumble by California, possession to Tex. mind you, they have no TOs left. after spiking the ball for a 2nd time on what was 3rd down, 22 seconds left in the game, they have have to go 39 yards for a td and being 4th and 7 it's not looking likely.

except...

4. they pick up 8 yards and go OOB. 17 seconds left, and by this time i'm sitting a little uneasy in my chair watching this unfold. i've seen this happen 4 consectutive times before (the 4 previous games), but i'm a lucky guy and besides, it's not like the AI has faulty end-game logic, right?

right???

5. 1st and 10, on my 28 yard line, DM decides enough with this bullshit and tosses a td for exactly 28 yards. i mean, not even 27 yards, or 26 yards and mindfucking me with a td run right up the middle. straight up 28 yard pass. i know they gotta pass, they know they gotta pass, there should have been 6 guys in the endzone. i'm playing nickle coverage, aggressive pass (no need to play it safe when they only have one option - through the air). i agree with that. but the defensive coordinator puts only 2 guys in deep coverage? yes, that sounds exactly logical. not like TEX had any TOs to burn while throwing some small dink and dunk passes.

6. anyway, start of OT, and CAL wins the toss and OH SNAP! we fumbled on our opening kickoff return. Dungeon Master was caught sleeping at the wheel this time, cuz we recovered the ball. "A mistake that shall not be repeated", the AI is heard whispering, "this time - it's personal".

7. on the 50 yard line, Deason runs for 14 yards and brings us to the TEX 36. everyone in California, including yours truly, breathes easy. we feel fortunate to be able to put this one away, and even though we owned TEX having sacked them 6 (six) times nothing comes easy lately so we feel we escaped with a win.

8. 1st and 10, on the TEX 36, California false start. i hear the sound of snickering somewhere, which rises into one of those cliche villain laughs. "Oh God", i sigh, "it's starting".

9. after a 2 yard run to make it 2nd and 13, California decides "to hell with this shit!" and throw 2 consecutive passes. end result? both incompletions. mind you - we only need a FG here, not a first down, 2 more runs woulda moved us into even safer FG territory here. well, 4th down we decide to go for the 56 yard FG and the clang that was heard as the ball hit the crossbar was loud enough to shatter glass.

possession: TEX

10. you know how it ends. they march up the field, shaking off a heroic sack by my CB of all people, and nail a 46 yard FG, ten yards less then the attempt we had.

omg jim wants u to lose

Bring that weak arse shiat from the land of fruits and nutz against the Lone Star State, what do you expect?

this thread is more for people who've been on the wrong end of a catch-up logic knock out punch. not interested in pointing fingers. i guess it's my fault for not ever really reading game logs, God knows how many times in IHOF i must've came from behind and stole victories or how many times the AI made a blowout into a close game. again, i only looked to see if i won or lost and then i went straight to the stats screen. i'm now becoming a believer that something screwy or whatever is going on at the end of half and end of games.

Ping: cuervo?

this thread is more for people who've been on the wrong end of a catch-up logic knock out punch. not interested in pointing fingers. i guess it's my fault for not ever really reading game logs, God knows how many times in IHOF i must've came from behind and stole victories or how many times the AI made a blowup into a close game. again, i only looked to see if i won or lost and then i went straight to the stats screen. i'm now becoming a believer that something screwy or whatever is going on at the end of half and end of games.

Have you consulted with jbmagic or Front Office Midget?

Funny thread.

The "cruel hand of fate" code seems to be in 2004 quite a bit.

there is no catch up code

Except in HA's mind.

Where was Mean Dean when you needed him?



There was a similar thread in the correct FOF forum, and most of us realize it sucks, I think. Your situation really seemed to be a very mild version of that though. Yours seemed akin to just really bad playcalling, but realistically bad playcalling. There's been way worse cases. I would say this is one of the main weaknesses of FOF overall.

I'm only familiar with the fall-behind/early-game AI. Come playoffs time my team always finds a way to trail by 21+ before the first quarter is over. (Well, not in the GEFL, but every game my team wins there is part of the fluke-win code built in for teams ran by me, it's the other chapter in my conspiracy theory.)

Why would there be "catch up" code in a text sim?

Why would there be "catch up" code in a text sim?Jim has stated repeatedly that there's not, and Anthony knows it. He just hasn't been getting enough attention lately. ;)

I read the thread title and who the author was. I am very disappointed that this thread had nothing at all to do with midgets.

Personally, I feel cheated.

I read the thread title and who the author was. I am very disappointed that this thread had nothing at all to do with midgets.

Personally, I feel cheated.

Well, Front Office Midget did post in this thread after all, so what more could you possibly want?

Is it possible that there is no "catch up code" but that something about the AI gameplanning leads to more weird finishes? Because I see a LOT of teams passing, and passing deep, when they should be running out the clock.

This is in FOF2004 and TCY.

Posting the gameplan in question is critical here. If you're not set to 100% run in the 4th quarter situations, shut up about the passes, for example. Same for 2-deep zone coverages. There is even a specific section for
"I'm nursing a lead late in the 4th quarter" in the gameplan, and when I've had complaints like yours I've tweaked this section (changing time and points as well as gameplanning elements) and had good success eliminating the complaints.

I just got beat by a human opponent with a long TD drive in under a minute after going up by a FG late in my office league today. The fact that both starting CBs missed the game due to injury, and I lost a key backup LB to injury, had nothing to do with it, no it was all the catch-up logic's fault!

2. 1:36 remaining in the game, i picked up a 1st down and TEX burned their last TO.
Kneeldowns?

Thanks for making my eyes bleed.

Jim has stated repeatedly that there's not, and Anthony knows it. He just hasn't been getting enough attention lately. ;)

so there is no catchup code, or there's a flaw in the endgame AI?

Kneeldowns?

no, i had the ball, they had all 3 of their TOs. i was running the ball every play on that drive (as per my gameplan), and they burned their final TO after i picked up a first down. that's when the Puppet Master AI decided it was time for me to fumble the ball and let the other team make a mockery out of the laws of space and time and physics.

I would have figured with 28 yards to go for the TD, the comeback code would have allowed a pass to be caught for 20 yards, then have the guy get 30 more yards after the catch for a 50 yard td from the 28 yard line.

I would have figured with 28 yards to go for the TD, the comeback code would have allowed a pass to be caught for 20 yards, then have the guy get 30 more yards after the catch for a 50 yard td from the 28 yard line.
If only the game were that cust-o-mizable.

this is the way i'm starting to think it is:

i think in order to make it so that there are a number of uber teams in the league, a whole bunch of middle-tier teams and then a handful of crappy teams (just like in real life) the AI is coded to maintain this balance. think about it - if there wasn't any way to ensure this realistic balance in maintained then in a text-sim game you could have the possibility of a ton of unbeaten teams and a ton of zero-win teams. i think there's something in the code to maintain this balance. now, i think the way this balance is maintained is to (and i know this will rub some people the wrong way) "fudge" the outcome of games so that at the end of the season you have that target format i mentioned - the bell curve of elite teams, glut of middling teams, and a number of low-win teams.

is it really this way? doubtful. but i think there's some semblence to what i'm getting at. you need to maintain this balance of teams or else people would complain about there being too many or too little good/crap teams. i think the end result - the final standings and stats - is what Solecismic had their eye on and so if that means the AI will do what it needs to do in order to maintain that balance then so be it.

think of OOTP - you can tool around with the league stats (tweaking # of HR's, the ERA, # of strikeouts, etc). not happy with the high amount of HR's being hit - lower the amount. what does that mean? players who have the ratings to hit, say, 50+ HRs now wind up in the low 40s. how is that accomplished? by having OFs make more spectacular catches. perhaps more balls die at the track when they normally woulda left the park. maybe they fall on the wrong side of the foul poll a little too many times. the hitter's ratings didn't change, it's just the outcome that did. things have to happen in the game to prevent that hitter who otherwise woulda hit his 50+ HRs now hit like 42, all because you wanted a lower amount of total homeruns hit in your league. i might be sounding a little confusing, i'm just saying that in order to preserve the integrity of the final result - standing, stats, etc - things will happen in the game, notably the end of game, to ensure the bigger picture is met.

that is my theory.

Posting the gameplan in question is critical here. If you're not set to 100% run in the 4th quarter situations, shut up about the passes, for example. Same for 2-deep zone coverages. There is even a specific section for
"I'm nursing a lead late in the 4th quarter" in the gameplan, and when I've had complaints like yours I've tweaked this section (changing time and points as well as gameplanning elements) and had good success eliminating the complaints.

I just got beat by a human opponent with a long TD drive in under a minute after going up by a FG late in my office league today. The fact that both starting CBs missed the game due to injury, and I lost a key backup LB to injury, had nothing to do with it, no it was all the catch-up logic's fault!

oh sure, the easy thing is to blame the user and say it's my fault. no, let's not entertain the possibility that there may be something off here.

listen, Uncle Toby comes to all the family parties with a tavern tan and a strong stench of hard liquor in his breath. you don't have any concrete proof that he is a drunkard. it's easy for the family to pretend Uncle Toby is not an alcoholic and kindly shoo away anyone who inquires, but Uncle Toby is not going to get better unless you confront him and find out if there indeed is a problem.

that's all i want to do here - help Uncle Toby if there's a problem.

Jim has challenged people on many occasions to come up with hard facts that there is some trend in what happens in FOF games that is different from the NFL.

No one has been able to do so outside of fun little anecdotes like the one you pose here.

Until someone proves this with more than fun anecdotes, I'm inclined to believe the one that has put WAY more man hours into understanding this than anyone else has.

http://www.younglifenorthdekalb.com/fofc/donotfeed.jpg