Guys,
Title says it all...Is it getting late in the season for Jim to release a new football game ?

It has been a few weeks since someone asked.

At this point I actually think it's more likely that Solecismic will announce that Jim is developing a football sim for SI Games, to be released some day. It will include NFL Europe and the CFL, but not the NCAA.

I wouldn't count on one until next summer at the earliest, but you never know.

i expect an announcement april 1st

It has been 2 years and 1 day since FOF 2004 was released. No information has been given about any new games.

Is Jim still making a living from his old game sales or has he gotten another job and no longer progamming independent games?

By keeping us in the dark and having a full-time job, he can live vicareously by watching us continue to pine away year after year for a game that is never coming lol.

Strangely enough, I was actually considering picking up FOF2004 a few weeks ago (even if it would break the most consecutive off-topic posts streak) but decided to wait until after Nov. 13th to see if there was any anniversary update.

So, since that deadline has passed, I think I'm going to break down and make the purchase. Having purchased FOF2 and the EASports version, I know I'll like the game. The past 3 or 4 years, I just haven't had the desire to play this type of game. But, with the PS2 NCAA series running its course in enjoyment, and my successful reentry into the sports text atmosphere with OOTP6, I think it's about time to give FOF2004 a try.

And for the record, this entire post was a poor attempt to convince myself to spend the 29.99 :cool:

At this point, with no release in two years, and no project announced, do we really even have reason to believe that Solecismic exists as a viable company? At least, one that is developing new games?

At this point, with no release in two years, and no project announced, do we really even have reason to believe that Solecismic exists as a viable company? At least, one that is developing new games?
of course i would HOPE that if this was actually the case and Jim was not working on something he would let us all know, sort of as a courtesy, so that we could turn our attention towards say the next generation of TPF and helping to make it better instead of pining for something that won't ever happen.

So, since that deadline has passed, I think I'm going to break down and make the purchase.

Thereby lending credence, however slight/anecdotal, to Jim's previously stated belief that timing of the game release doesn't have much impact on sales ;)

my take is he's already made TCY2 and is now personally withholding information on his product until Bowl Bound is released, so he can steal their thunder and ensure they don't implement any of his ideas.

and if he hasn't made TCY2 then i agree there is no reason to consider Solecismic as a viable company anymore.

Jon: that strategy only works if you're the only show in town. that may or may not be a luxury in the future as other competition comes into the picture.

my take is he's already made TCY2 and is now personally withholding information on his product until Bowl Bound is released, so he can steal their thunder and ensure they don't implement any of his ideas.

and if he hasn't made TCY2 then i agree there is no reason to consider Solecismic as a viable company anymore.

Jon: that strategy only works if you're the only show in town. that may or may not be a luxury in the future as other competition comes into the picture.
I can say with confidence that I'll be getting Bowl Bound before I'd get TCY2 if this were the case at all.

Actually, regardless, I'll be getting Bowl Bound before TCY2 anyways. I'll eventually get TCY2, but not for the first few months prolly.

I can say with confidence that I'll be getting Bowl Bound before I'd get TCY2 if this were the case at all.

Actually, regardless, I'll be getting Bowl Bound before TCY2 anyways. I'll eventually get TCY2, but not for the first few months prolly.
You know, that would be a tough decision.

This is new and exciting.

I vote for "other income" as well since he did pay a down payment and contractor, presumably, on a land in Michigan this year. Unless it was one of those $0 down payment and no interest until 2006 type deals. :)

I will continue to belive that EA has bought him out and paid him not to realease FOF2006. With EA's new coaching sim comming out next year they want to make sure that Jim's game does not compete with theirs.

Like the farmers who receive a check in the mail from the US government for NOT growing crops, Jim will be cashing an EA check this year for NOT releasing a new Football sim.

You know, that would be a tough decision.

not at all, i'd pickup TCY2 in a heartbeat

He must have a job, right? 2 years without a new product and no job is enough to make me hate the guy. :D

not at all, i'd pickup TCY2 in a heartbeat
I guess my appetite has been fed with NCAA on the ps2, but I'm very interested in Bowl Bound more so than a possible TCY 2. I would still rather see a FOF 2005/6.

Just my $0.02 - actually, I can't wait to see if I can snag an Xbox 360 and Madden 06.

not at all, i'd pickup TCY2 in a heartbeatYeah, me too.

I remember TPF.

FBPro=Football sim junkie

(i.e.-will likely buy AT SOME POINT any football game released)

id buy both, or all....

my take is he's already made TCY2 and is now personally withholding information on his product until Bowl Bound is released, so he can steal their thunder and ensure they don't implement any of his ideas.
Or he is waiting for Bowl Bound to implement some of their ideas. Why should be Jim supposed to be the original one and are the others who copy from him? Especially when he hasn't released a game in 2 years while others have. TCY was the only reference in the past, but for example FBCB has setup a good reference point too, as have done TPB, OOTP, etc, etc. There are some really good games not developed by Jim and all them had great and original ideas.

Or he is waiting for Bowl Bound to implement some of their ideas. Why should be Jim supposed to be the original one and are the others who copy from him? Especially when he hasn't released a game in 2 years while others have. TCY was the only reference in the past, but for example FBCB has setup a good reference point too, as have done TPB, OOTP, etc, etc. There are some really good games not developed by Jim and all them had great and original ideas.

that was also what i was thinking, but to suggest as much and his groupies would be all up in a tizzy.

but yeah, i think there's a conscious decision to hold off on releasing TCY2 until Bowl Bound is released. if he doesn't depend on instant sales and prefers to stretch them out over the course of 2 years, i can envision a scenario where he wouldn't want to put out an inferior product knowing all the juice that BB has been getting. just like in consoles - the company that waits until the other announces their next-gen console first has the benefit of "padding" the specs on their own. it's no coincidence that every time a console company announces their new console that their competition will announce one of their own that has even better spes. it happened with PS2/XBox, and it's happened again with 360/PS3.

my take is he's already made TCY2 and is now personally withholding information on his product until Bowl Bound is released, so he can steal their thunder and ensure they don't implement any of his ideas...

I think I will go along with this theory because I think he did this around the time of TPF as well.

I think I will go along with this theory because I think he did this around the time of TPF as well.

exactly.

and i'll go you one further: i think BB is already done, and they in turn don't want Jim to feed off on some of their ideas. i think each are now playing a game where they want to steal the other guy's thunder.

i can see there being a situation where if TCY2 is announced, BB will magically and suddenly have a demo ready, and ditto if BB is released first.

By now, people should have figured out that making nasty accusations only helps me justify keeping silent about my plans. Good thing it's only the usual suspects - Samdari, Hell Atlantic, Wrong Way.

I'd emphasize that this trio is consistently making statements along these lines, so I'd appreciate it if everyone else would just consider the source. They're just looking for attention. Do not feed the trolls.

I'll also remind you that many of old-time players in this business run on an entirely different model. New versions of a game every year is not a good long-term recipe for success.

By now, people should have figured out that making nasty accusations only helps me justify keeping silent about my plans.

LOL, thanks for reminding us how good you are at convincing yourself you are right Jim.

how is discussing Solecismic games on a FOF fansite "looking for attention". you are one insane businessman if you'd prefer that multi-page discussion on Bowl Bound than discussion on your own products.

i've turned a new leaf and no longer handle situations here on FOFC as i normally would have done. in the past you'd expect a long rant. now, i'll simply reserve my right as a forum member to voice my opinion and thoughts on the current situation and there isn't anything anyone can do about it other than to hit "ignore Hell Atlantic" if my words are "trollish" to you. what you deem to be negative "propaganda" or false information - i view simply as speculation.

And where did I make a nasty accusation? I raised a legitimate point - in two years, you have not even announced that you are working on a project. How would we know your move to Michigan is not to take a "real job?" We wouldn't - its a legitimate point, no matter how it offends your delicate sensibilities.

I think Jim has a pretty good handle on his fan base, and realizes that unlike Madden gamers, his customers typically do not need to have a new game every year that is essentially a roster update. If Jim is working on a new pro game, I would think that it would be difficult to come up with enough viable, sold ideas which would make the game a new version of the game rather than an update. Sure if Jim wanted to pump up sales and make a quick buck he could release a product with a few updates and he would get people to pick up the new release, but it would not make his customer base too happy. I think that the two year absence of a new title is a result of Jim re-thinking his product and reprogramming to allow for features that would not be possible using his current model.

maybe he has a rap album in the works

Now all we need is WrongWay to complete the trio.

Pumpsy was right, this is new and exciting. :rolleyes:

exactly.

and i'll go you one further: i think BB is already done, and they in turn don't want Jim to feed off on some of their ideas. i think each are now playing a game where they want to steal the other guy's thunder.

Maybe, but I don't think that Jim would be able to do much damage this time around. In the past, .400 Studios had a bad track record when it came to their first releases. Because of that a number of people held off from purchasing and Jim could make an annoncement to steal some of that thunder.

However this time around, there are probably a lot more first time buyers based on the success of the other games they released at Grey Dog. They have shown to have a much better track record thus far.

As for me, I am choosing to wait it out regardless of who annonces a game release first. If TCY2 were to be annonced, I would want to hear people's reviews of it to see if there has been a major overhaul of the original or if it was just a tweaked version of it. If BBCF were to be annonced, I would wait to see how recruiting is treated in this game as well as how they treat coaching (which is funny since I can't coach in TCY). I would also await to see if anyone is having any RTEs? I doubt you will see many of those this time around, but you never know.

By now, people should have figured out that making nasty accusations only helps me justify keeping silent about my plans.

Just out of curiosity, where did you manage to find a course that taught you the fine points of piss poor customer relations?

And that's coming from a guy who doesn't have a problem with the notion of "say nothing" marketing in this genre.

You suggest "don't feed the trolls" ... after being snippy about their criticism. Mr. Pot, have you met Mr. Kettle?

While it may be easier for you to pretend that there's some tiny clique of people conspiring against you this probably isn't the thread to try to play that claim. I certainly see more people in this thread with doubts than those three. Frankly, the thing that surprises me more & more is that anybody still cares.

At this point, with no release in two years, and no project announced, do we really even have reason to believe that Solecismic exists as a viable company? At least, one that is developing new games?
Well, I mean if you ignore the whole FOF 5.1 / TCY 1.3 release, sure. A selective memory can let you paint any picture you want.

Now all we need is WrongWay to complete the trio.

Pumpsy was right, this is new and exciting. :rolleyes:

what did you think we'd be discussing in here? it's funny how you and Pumpy always find the need to go into these threads to make your repetitive "this is new and exciting" posts. i view these types of threads to share opinions and speculation. whether or not Solecismic releases a game has no impact on my life - the sun will still rise in the East and gravity will still keep things from floating. this isn'y the do-or-die, make or break situation you're trying to insinuate we're turning this into.

While it may be easier for you to pretend that there's some tiny clique of people conspiring against you this probably isn't the thread to try to play that claim. I certainly see more people in this thread with doubts than those three. Frankly, the thing that surprises me more & more is that anybody still cares.

http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4305/snap5nv.png

Dola....

Damn, I missed a lot of drama typing my long post above. I didn't think these were nasty accusations. People are basing these comments off what happened in the past. Now if this is offbase...fine, but that does not mean people are trying to sabotage someone's image. This is simply speculation of what people do in business in general.

Frankly, the thing that surprises me more & more is that anybody still cares.

this is the most important statement. of course, it's a credit to Solecismic's fine quality of products, but in any other field i would assume the consumers basically going "ok, it's been two years since the last product - i guess that's all there is".

It is stunning how much completely inaccurate conjecture in this thread is beign accepted as truth, and that people aren't being called on.

If I were publicly accused without a shred whatsoever of evidence of the dirty tricks that both Jim and Arlie have been accused of in this thread, I'd be pretty dadgum pissed.

It is stunning how much completely inaccurate conjecture in this thread is beign accepted as truth

How would someone truly speculating know that his speculation were inaccurate?

Where is any of the speculation being accepted as fact?

i have to say, this does get tiring after awhile.

this thread wasn't negative at all before Solecismic, Pumpy and Bucc peppered it w/ their posts. before it was people sharing opinions and speculating, and now i see the path where it's headed. it's a shame. and guess who looks like the bad guys? people as myself who just wanted to conversate on the topic. this is great.

It is stunning how much completely inaccurate conjecture in this thread is beign accepted as truth, and that people aren't being called on.

If I were publicly accused without a shred whatsoever of evidence of the dirty tricks that both Jim and Arlie have been accused of in this thread, I'd be pretty dadgum pissed.

who am i? what ties do i have to either company? i don't have "Solecismic Liaison" as my title like primelord has. my opinion on this matter shouldn't carry anymore weight than anyone else's. just trying to understand the situation and i like reading other people's take on it as well. again, this wasn't a negative thread until certain people showed up.

i have to say, this does get tiring after awhile.

this thread wasn't negative at all before Solecismic, Pumpy and Bucc peppered it their posts.I have to say, that this is one of the most insane things I've ever seen you post.

my take is he's already made TCY2 and is now personally withholding information on his product until Bowl Bound is released, so he can steal their thunder and ensure they don't implement any of his ideas.If that's not a negative, vicious accusation, I'm not sure what is.

It is stunning how much completely inaccurate conjecture in this thread is beign accepted as truth, and that people aren't being called on.

If I were publicly accused without a shred whatsoever of evidence of the dirty tricks that both Jim and Arlie have been accused of in this thread, I'd be pretty dadgum pissed.

I don't understand this. Most of the threads on this board are about people speculating about a particular topic. People are only talking about whether a game is done or not.

At this current time, how do you know how much is inaccurate, unless you work for both companies. Sure, I could be totally wrong, but how much evidence do you have to support your opposite view. That is exactly why people are speculating.

this is just so typical of this place. mighty is the spell that Solecismic has on it's groupies.

Just in case anyone missed it when Solecismic posted this in another thread:

/begin non-controversial information dump

It's much better to kill bugs than hit a release date.

The average bug rate in a professional (and I hope I've reached that standard after 14 years as a programmer) software release is 1 in every 140 lines of code. FOF 2004 has about 250,000 lines.

Therefore, it's hard to predict a release date with any kind of accuracy in this business.

The big publishers use static release dates because the retail environment forces them to reserve shelf space. This causes quality problems for the reasons I stated above.

Therefore, big publishers tend to spend much of their budget on artwork and sound, which are far friendlier to schedules. The games aren't much more complex than they were 15 years ago, they're just prettier.

There are notable exceptions for hit franchises, like GTA and The Sims. There are very few of these.

Big publishers make most of their sales in a tiny window of time immediately after release. If they don't make a lot of sales, retailers stop carrying their products.

Therefore, big publishers need to publicize the hell out of their games.

/end non-controversial information dump

I have no interest in going retail. A long time ago, I did, for reasons purely related to the ego, but researching the retail market thoroughly cured me of that.

It's better to have money in my pocket than an ego-boost on a store shelf. And it's not as if chicks are impressed by seeing your name on a box in a store they wouldn't enter if Jimmy Choo himself were selling his shoes half-off.

This is an important point, so I'm bolding it. It makes no difference to me whether I sell a huge amount on release day or several months from release day.

In fact, spreading sales out may help, because the servers get pretty overwhelmed during a release. Anyone remember the TCY release, when my wife and I had to pack boxes non-stop for two solid weeks, and people were freaking out because they had to wait so long?

My product is what they refer to in sales as an "evergreen." I don't get a huge percentage of my sales on day one. And even four years after its release, TCY is still bringing in income. Not enough to keep food on the table (well, maybe if you're doing one of those weird "documentaries"), but noticible.

The polls confirm my suspicion that advertising for this type of product is a waste of money. I can't advertise enough to build brand awareness, because the cost of maintaining a presence is so much higher than it used to be.

People are going to hear about the games over time. This is not a product that everyone's going to enjoy. I have a tiny art budget. More complexity in the game is better than less. It's a true niche product in a very large industry. I am never going to become a billionaire doing this.

So I want to ease new customers in. If you look at my web site, it's very low-key. That's intentional. I want to encourage people to try the free demo before they buy the product. I consciously avoid language like "the best football game ever." It's better if customers make up their own minds, which they will do regardless.


All this tells you why I don't advertise, and I don't make specific release dates. But it doesn't tell you why I don't name the next product.


I used to do that. I started on TCY back in 1999, right after FOF 2 was released. I talked openly about that, said I was aiming at a mid-2000 release at first.

But the whole EA/Gigawatt/FOF 2001 thing took precedence because of what EA was trying to build here. They couldn't have cared less about TCY, and they pay for development in advance. Things were going well with EA, and we had big plans (some people here noticed EA had reserved the frontofficebaseball.com and frontofficehockey.com domains, among others, and still renew them for some odd reason I've never been able to determine). TCY was on hold.

I got back to TCY in early 2001, and released it in the summer. By then, people had been talking about it for nearly two years. The release didn't go well. This was a huge product - by far my largest to date at that point - and it had its share of bugs.

People seemed to get more upset because they had been waiting for it so long. I patched quickly, but the damage was done. Reviews weren't as good as the FOF reviews were.

Ultimately, my understanding of this problem is that two years of waiting caused people to build TCY into something it wasn't. That just anticipation itself equalled hype. People fill in their own blanks while they wait.

With FOF 4, I went back to a shorter development cycle, but the same thing happened. Now part of that was due to my spending a lot of development time rewriting key pieces of the game - something you don't see until you've played it a long time and isn't obviously new - but again, people were filling in their own blanks, and were resentful when features they preferred didn't make the list.

So, at that point, I finally figured out that my worst enemy was perceived hype. What good does it do to tell people what I'm working on? In fact, my experiences tell me it actually does harm.

What good does this knowledge do for you? The game isn't available until it's released. I can't even tell you the release date, because I don't know myself. All this knowledge does is lets you slowly believe, over time, that I'm building exactly the game you personally want. This leads inevitably to disappointment.

Right now, I'm convinced that the shorter the time between announcement and release, the better for this type of product.

I'm not trying to be coy, or secretive, or obnoxious. From experience, I believe this is the right approach.

It is stunning how much completely inaccurate conjecture in this thread is beign accepted as truth, and that people aren't being called on.

If I were publicly accused without a shred whatsoever of evidence of the dirty tricks that both Jim and Arlie have been accused of in this thread, I'd be pretty dadgum pissed.

The speculation in the thread seems to fall pretty far short of the threshold for "accusation" AFAIC. And there's also pretty obvious & reasonable ground for the speculation AFAIC.

It reminds me of the doubts that are always cast about that guy (whose name is escaping me) who is know for touting his projects to the heavens & then having them turn to vaporware (somebody will surely conjure the name pretty quickly, I'm just drawing a blank right now). It's the same thing in reverse -- the absence of any promotion does reasonably sow seeds of doubt.

Personally, I figure there's a product in the pipeline six months +/- ,but that's not much more than a WAG at this point ... same as those who are convinced it'll be tomorrow, same as those who think it'll be never.

If that's not a negative, vicious accusation, I'm not sure what is.

Solecismic employs underage children who are forced into labor in unsanitary working conditions.


that is a negative, vicious accusation.

If that's not a negative, vicious accusation, I'm not sure what is.

I'd say it's more like an observation about business practices and/or character assessment.

And I'm almost amazed (not quite, but almost) that you seem to feel that Jim deserves some sort of free ride on that sort of analysis, there's certainly no shortage of the same thing for countless other topics/personalities here.

My god, I've walked into a thread from the movie Groundhog Day. When's Bill Murray gonna post?

Oh, and please pass the corned beef re-hash.

*yawn*

It is stunning how much completely inaccurate conjecture in this thread is beign accepted as truth, and that people aren't being called on.

If I were publicly accused without a shred whatsoever of evidence of the dirty tricks that both Jim and Arlie have been accused of in this thread, I'd be pretty dadgum pissed.

I wish I had the ability to make major changes as fast as these guys think I can.

If either Arlie or I saw a must-have feature in the other game, we'd probably patch it in if we could. Is that a bad thing?

That said, I doubt he's watching my site any more than I'm watching his. I'll release a new game when it's done. And he'll release BBCF when it's done. Anything else makes no sense. These games are not competing for shelf space - the way they sell has little to do with how many they sell the day they're released.

I'm rooting for his success. I think he's going after a slightly different market, and that can only bring in more people to the genre. If he hits it big, it helps me down the road. If people are excited about Bowl Bound, it keeps them coming here. How is that bad? Should I be upset about the Civ IV talk, too?

I'd say it's more like an observation about business practices and/or character assessment.Then we see that one differently. If something similar were said about me, I'd be furious, quite frankly. What HA speculated about isn't a "business practice;" it would be playing very, very dirty, if you ask me.

And I'm almost amazed (not quite, but almost) that you seem to feel that Jim deserves some sort of free ride on that sort of analysis, there's certainly no shortage of the same thing for countless other topics/personalities here.Not at all. I've been critical of decisions of both Jim's and Arlie's in the past, and I'm sure I will be at some point in the future, but saying that they're probably holding their games back waiting to steal the other's thunder is just waaaaayyy out of left field.

I wish I had the ability to make major changes as fast as these guys think I can.

If either Arlie or I saw a must-have feature in the other game, we'd probably patch it in if we could. Is that a bad thing?

That said, I doubt he's watching my site any more than I'm watching his. I'll release a new game when it's done. And he'll release BBCF when it's done. Anything else makes no sense. These games are not competing for shelf space - the way they sell has little to do with how many they sell the day they're released.

I'm rooting for his success. I think he's going after a slightly different market, and that can only bring in more people to the genre. If he hits it big, it helps me down the road. If people are excited about Bowl Bound, it keeps them coming here. How is that bad? Should I be upset about the Civ IV talk, too?

don't you think this post would have been more useful rather than your previous one? of course, your input isn't required in these sort of threads - they aren't a plea for an official Solecismic statement that you might think they are.

but saying that they're probably holding their games back waiting to steal the other's thunder is over the line is just waaaaayyy out of left field.

because MS didn't do that to Sony when the PS2 was announced, right?

and Sony didn't say "nevermind the 360 - look at all the bells and whistles the PS3 will have when it's released". it ain't being vicious - it's called Capitalism.

The speculation in the thread seems to fall pretty far short of the threshold for "accusation" AFAIC. And there's also pretty obvious & reasonable ground for the speculation AFAIC.

It reminds me of the doubts that are always cast about that guy (whose name is escaping me) who is know for touting his projects to the heavens & then having them turn to vaporware (somebody will surely conjure the name pretty quickly, I'm just drawing a blank right now). It's the same thing in reverse -- the absence of any promotion does reasonably sow seeds of doubt.

Personally, I figure there's a product in the pipeline six months +/- ,but that's not much more than a WAG at this point ... same as those who are convinced it'll be tomorrow, same as those who think it'll be never.
Moleneaux(sp) from Lionhead?

because MS didn't do that to Sony when the PS2 was announced, right?You oughta KNOW that I have no clue what you're talking about. I know that PS2=Playstation 2, but I'm not sure what Microsoft and Sony have to do with it...

You oughta KNOW that I have no clue what you're talking about. I know that PS2=Playstation 2, but I'm not sure what Microsoft and Sony have to do with it...

ask SackAttack then, i don't feel like giving you a console wars primer if you're that clueless on the subject.

ask SackAttack then, i don't feel like giving you a console wars primer if you're that clueless on the subject.If I cared an iota about console, I might actually take the time to form a question and read a response. However...

You oughta KNOW that I have no clue what you're talking about. I know that PS2=Playstation 2, but I'm not sure what Microsoft and Sony have to do with it...

Sony makes the PlayStation 2
Microsoft makes the X-Box

Moleneaux(sp) from Lionhead?

No, he hypes the shit out of games, and delivers ones that fall short of the hype, but sell very well based on the level of expectations.

I wish I had the ability to make major changes as fast as these guys think I can.

If either Arlie or I saw a must-have feature in the other game, we'd probably patch it in if we could. Is that a bad thing?

That said, I doubt he's watching my site any more than I'm watching his. I'll release a new game when it's done. And he'll release BBCF when it's done. Anything else makes no sense. These games are not competing for shelf space - the way they sell has little to do with how many they sell the day they're released.

I'm rooting for his success. I think he's going after a slightly different market, and that can only bring in more people to the genre. If he hits it big, it helps me down the road. If people are excited about Bowl Bound, it keeps them coming here. How is that bad? Should I be upset about the Civ IV talk, too?
Good post that proves that some guys here were over reacting defending you when nobody was saying anything offensive, just speculating and pointing that the same that GDS could be looking at your work you could be looking at theirs, but nobody said that you or them were copying each other. In fact it's something positive for us as customers that different developers take the best ideas from the other games to make their own much better.

As always, some members seem to think that you will stop to develop games if you receive critics, when in fact i think you can handle them by yourself without them jumping and putting their words in your mouth. We all talk about other games/developers here and say what we think about it, i can't see anything wrong with that as this is not a private board from any developer, even when some guys want to overprotect Solecismic over the other companies, doing more damage than helping.

don't you think this post would have been more useful rather than your previous one? of course, your input isn't required in these sort of threads - they aren't a plea for an official Solecismic statement that you might think they are.

I have answered these questions before. I meant for the statement albionmoonlight quoted to be the end of it. But you and a couple of others just keep repeating the same old garbage.

Now I wish I could ignore it. A few years ago, you would have gone on my ignore list and that would be the end of it. I think you're a smart guy, but you're very needy. You're like my kid in some ways - you're happy most of the time, but every once in awhile you perceive you're not getting enough attention, and you just start yelling and screaming. Negative attention is better than nothing.

I have found that just a couple of people with an axe to grind can cause people who aren't paying close attention to believe something very negative. I have to address this quickly, or the long-term damage is greater.

I realize that, today, not responding is a far better course of action. All I've done is flushed out people like Jon, who have other issues. But, as he pointed out, people (like Antmeister, who I don't think has personal issues) were starting to chime in.

That's the effect of these rumors. Even though I've already addressed them, I have to keep on them. My reputation took a much bigger hit when I ignored FOFC for months at a time. I'm still here, almost eight years after I released my first game.

No, he hypes the shit out of games, and delivers ones that fall short of the hype, but sell very well based on the level of expectations.
Romero--Diakatana? or the guy making Duke Nukem Forever?

Then we see that one differently. ... What HA speculated about isn't a "business practice;" it would be playing very, very dirty, if you ask me.

We really do see that one differently.

Timing a release to best advantage is an extremely common business practice. And so is "borrowing" from a competitive product (or even remotely competitive product). And so is tweaking a product to gain an advantage/minimize someone else's advantage. We aren't talking about Microsoft vs Apple here, but I don't think it's exactly tiddlywinks either, not when people are making their living from it.

but saying that they're probably holding their games back waiting to steal the other's thunder is just waaaaayyy out of left field.

I really don't see that as at all far-fetched, that's just business. Whether either/neither/both of the entities are taking that into consideration, I have no idea (I actually lean toward "neither" FTR), but there's definitely nothing unbelievable or, IMO, even untoward about it.

You know the specific industry/category/product I deal with everyday
(but please! keep it generic in here) and this is the sort of thing that we deal with fairly frequently. Product announcements, advertising decisions, packaging, negating perceived competitive advantages/disadvantages -- those are part & parcel of the business of doing business ... and have been for my whole adult life, certainly broadcasting was no different. Do you really believe that these things aren't a part of the gaming business?

No, he hypes the shit out of games, and delivers ones that fall short of the hype, but sell very well based on the level of expectations.

That's retail for you. Go back to the long post albionmoonlight quoted.

We really do see that one differently.

Timing a release to best advantage is an extremely common business practice. And so is "borrowing" from a competitive product (or even remotely competitive product). And so is tweaking a product to gain an advantage/minimize someone else's advantage. We aren't talking about Microsoft vs Apple here, but I don't think it's exactly tiddlywinks either, not when people are making their living from it.Then I reckon it's probably a good thing that I'm in a non-profit. I could never stomach that kind of cutthroat stuff. I'd be leaving the company the minute I found out about it. {shrug}

Moleneaux(sp) from Lionhead?

I don't think that's the one. The guy I'm thinking of is a complete whackadoo, thinks he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, talks smack online to no end, goes out of his way to find critics to screw with, etc.

Maybe that is Moleneaux, but for some reason that isn't the name I'm trying to come up with. It's also possible that I've mentally attached the wrong name to the image of the guy I'm talking about, meaning you're right & I just don't realize it.

Then I reckon it's probably a good thing that I'm in a non-profit. I could never stomach that kind of cutthroat stuff. I'd be leaving the company the minute I found out about it. {shrug}
Come on, you're saying that you never added a golden calf or two to your retreat weekends just to steal a little of Baal's thunder?;)

I have to painfully admit I agree with HA on this one. Not on his theory that Jim's holding out on a game because of BBCF, but that his statements earlier in this thread did not elicit the negative reaction.

I know there's some history there, but I don't think this thread in particular was a negative, viscious, or otherwise out of line attack. But that's just my $.02, I could be wrong.

Then I reckon it's probably a good thing that I'm in a non-profit.

Maybe so. I really can't think of any business I've ever been around that doesn't have the elements I'm talking about. There's certainly different levels of sophistication & depth to it, but they're pretty much always present.

I'm reminded of one of the most potent axioms anyone ever taught me in business:
"We're not here to be Number One ... We're here to be the ONLY One". ... everything else is pretty much a means to that end.

it's not like anyone accused another of molesting collies. now that's negative.

Then I reckon it's probably a good thing that I'm in a non-profit. I could never stomach that kind of cutthroat stuff. I'd be leaving the company the minute I found out about it. {shrug}

If Arlie and I were cutthroat in that manner, it would hurt both of us. The niche markets we serve work very differently. Hype is ultimately irrelevant.

That's why the Stallings mess was so stupid - he perceived the market incorrectly, and it backfired on him.

I don't think that's the one. The guy I'm thinking of is a complete whackadoo, thinks he's the greatest thing since sliced bread, talks smack online to no end, goes out of his way to find critics to screw with, etc.

Maybe that is Moleneaux, but for some reason that isn't the name I'm trying to come up with. It's also possible that I've mentally attached the wrong name to the image of the guy I'm talking about, meaning you're right & I just don't realize it.

Derek Smart?

That's retail for you. Go back to the long post albionmoonlight quoted.

I will go back to both that, and another quote you made.

Your long post decries that TCY was hyped and made into something it wasn't, causing the reviews to be not as good as FOF, or that you had hoped.

You have also previously posted (prior to FOF2004) that TCY was your best seller, and "there's no question TCY saved my company."

If you refuse to see that connection between that hype, and your best sales ever, admittedly, no one here can make you see that. On the other hand, if having anyone think or type anything negative about you or one of your games eats away at you like you give the impression it does, then you are doing the right thing for your life (even if its not best for pure sales) and more power to you.

What I don't understand is why you think I have an ax to grind or am screaming to get attention. There is a discussion here, I give my opinion. I understand that not everyone agrees with me, a concept I don't see you as being familiar with. I challenge you to find one post where I demand an announcement, or accuse you anything untoward. I disagree that your "marketing strategy" (or lack thereof) maximes sales, and I share that opinion when the topic comed up (as it will from time to time on a message board ostensibly dedicated to your company). I don't demand you change it, I don't feel you are screwing me over by not revealing your next project. Where is the screaming for attention you are imagining? Where are the horrendous accusations you are imagining?

Derek Smart?

Ding ding ding. That's the name I was trying to think of.
(Don't know if I've got him in the right context, but that's definitely the name I was looking for).

i just think it's wrong that there can't be discussion among people here on Solecismic products with this being a site primarily about the Solecismic line of products.

i personally didn't see anything outwardly "negative" about my speculation - i'm not a business owner but i can still see scenarios where holding out info on products until the competition has announced their's is a viable business strategy.

while it's your choice/right to defend yourself against false rumors, i feel it's incorrect to label anyone who speculates or shares an opinion that doesn't favor your company as having "an agenda". Solecismic games are of the highest quality in their genre, but not enough, at least as i'm concerned, to encourage a vast conspiracy to put forth a damaging campaign.

Come on, you're saying that you never added a golden calf or two to your retreat weekends just to steal a little of Baal's thunder?;)Ya know, it just hit me. Maybe I reacted so strongly because I've been falsely accused of essentially the same thing that was in this trhead by a couple of area churches. Unfortunately, when it comes to youth ministry in this community, we are the biggest player in this area, and by a pretty wide margin. Some church staff members have accused me of all sorts of nasty things, including one who specifically accused me a couple of years ago (and word is that she still believes that I did this) of intentionally planning a trip to conflict with one that her church was doing so that I'd steal kids away. :rolleyes: She is apparently incapable of seeing that if I checked with the calendars of every church in the area before I planned a trip, I'd never do any trips, and further that the target audiences for a church choir tour and one of my trips are completely different.

Ding ding ding. That's the name I was trying to think of.
(Don't know if I've got him in the right context, but that's definitely the name I was looking for).

Well, your definition I responded too left no doubt in my mind anyway. :)

Lets just enjoy the game(s) we have to work with now, and stop worrying about the next game, if any to come out.


rkmsuf molests collies.

I have to painfully admit I agree with HA on this one.

why are you in pain? being in agreement with me should bring an intense sensation of pleasure to you. :)

You know the specific industry/category/product I deal with everyday
(but please! keep it generic in here) and this is the sort of thing that we deal with fairly frequently. Product announcements, advertising decisions, packaging, negating perceived competitive advantages/disadvantages -- those are part & parcel of the business of doing business ... and have been for my whole adult life, certainly broadcasting was no different. Do you really believe that these things aren't a part of the gaming business?
They're not the route to success in the gaming industry. Sure, there are key features every title in a genre "must" have, but the key to success is differentiation. What do you bring to the table that no one else does? Heck, we're an industry that holds conferences and sells books to GIVE AWAY trade secrets. The key is to be the industry leader: do it first, do it better, and keep moving ahead. If everyone is trying to implement the key feature you just shipped, they're not busy figuring out the next new killer feature that you ARE working on.

You can make a living copying everyone else, but you won't be selling top-10 titles for long.

What bothers me about this thread is that HellAtlantic, Samdari and WrongWay were slammed immediately.

HellAtlantic responded to something that I wrote and elaborated a little further and there was nothing that was slanderous. If I were to summarize, it would seem that he was saying Jim is trying to remain competitive. How is that bad?

Samdari was only speculating about how Jim continues to make money. How is that bad? Even govols speculated about the same thing.

WrongWay wasn't even in this thread. Now that is messed up.

No...I don't have any personal issues with Solecismic. What I don't understand is why the sudden post came, especially when the previous posts were speculating about release dates and one is speculating that you may have joined with SI.

On top of that, Jim, whenever there is a thread about Joe Stallings and .400, you chime in that thread all the time and no one has a problem with it. But yet when someone has specualtion about your business practices based on incidents in the past, you take it as an assault on your character.

You can freely say anything about Joe Stallings and how he was bad for the market (which I agree with), but no one can seem to have any opinion about you. Plus you always mention how you never received any information about the whole situation, so how are you basing your opinion? Are you basing your opinion on the same information all of us has seen on a message board? You have to realize that you are not going to have everyone agree or even like you and that's ok.

I figured this thread would die like all of the others, but maybe it's not your run of the mill rinse and repeat thread.

HellAtlantic responded to something that I wrote and elaborated a little further and there was nothing that was slanderous. If I were to summarize, it would seem that he was saying Jim is trying to remain competitive. How is that bad?
What I thought was negative was the implication that Arlie/Solecismic had a game essentially ready to go, and just waiting to steal the other good ideas before releasing it. Much different, imho, than taking ideas from other games into account during design because it seems like a good one.

What I don't understand is why the sudden post came, especially when the previous posts were speculating about release dates and one is speculating that you may have joined with SI. It's understandable in that this is a series of people who have a history of engaging in mindless speculation and silly accussations for their own personal agendas. If this were the first time any of these people engaged in a discussion like this that made radical off-the-wall claims and trasy allegations, I can see why Jim's response could be considered an over reaction. But given the history, I think his response was measured and proportional.

What I have always failed to understand is why people come to a site called Front Office Football Central owes its evolution and very existence today to its roll as a fan site if they don't like Jim, his products or his business management. In the era of blogs and cheap forums and Web sites, why bother coming to a place you seem to hate? I can only guess at the reasons ...

On top of that, Jim, whenever there is a thread about Joe Stallings and .400, you chime in that thread all the time and no one has a problem with it. But yet when someone has specualtion about your business practices based on incidents in the past, you take it as an assault on your character.


No, I don't take it as an assault on my character. I take it as a business rumor that must be addressed.

I assumed the former a long time ago, and ignored these kinds of rumors. That ended up causing a lot more damage.

I don't like responding as I'm doing now. I think it's worse in the short term, as your post indicates. But it will help down the road. People need confidence that I'm not basing my business decisions on some arbitrary cutthroat behavior. People need confidence that I'm not abandoning my customers without hope of a new product.

Those are two very serious accusations - ones I've already addressed but keep coming up thanks to the work of a select few with an axe to grind.

As for the .400 situation, I don't know everything. I never will. All I'm referring to is what is already public knowledge about what Stallings himself did.

thanks to the work of a select few with an axe to grind

You keep saying this.

What ax? Seriously, why do you think there is any agenda other than interest in your games?

Lets just enjoy the game(s) we have to work with now, and stop worrying about the next game, if any to come out.


rkmsuf molests collies.


only if they are really cute and asking for it

People need confidence that I'm not basing my business decisions on some arbitrary cutthroat behavior. People need confidence that I'm not abandoning my customers without hope of a new product.

Those are two very serious accusations - ones I've already addressed but keep coming up thanks to the work of a select few with an axe to grind.
Jim -

Serious question. This is the first time I've posted on one of these threads but the above quote makes me wonder:

Have you ever actually stated that you are actively working on a new release? You have repeatedly stated that you don't release info on what the game is, when it will be released, etc. But I don't recall that you have ever confirmed you have a new release in process, whatever the game and however long the process may be.

You can make a living copying everyone else, but you won't be selling top-10 titles for long.

Well, just for kicks ... are there even 10 current titles in the text sports sim genre at the moment? Let's say "active" is about a year old or less, anything
older, I'd call "catalog".

Seriously, to heck with slamming anybody, I'm just hard pressed to name 10 currents.

There's an NBA, a Soccer, a hockey, a pro wrestling, there's the SAT computer version from Roogames. There's the college basketball that I'm not sure of the date on. That's 5, maybe 6. Somebody fill in the rest of the ten.

What I have always failed to understand is why people come to a site called Front Office Football Central owes its evolution and very existence today to its roll as a fan site if they don't like Jim, his products or his business management. In the era of blogs and cheap forums and Web sites, why bother coming to a place you seem to hate? I can only guess at the reasons ...
I'll give you my reason so you don't have to guess as far as I'm concerned. Originally, I liked the developer/customer interaction, business management (with the exception of download only games), and products. Like any other "relationship", things can change. For example, I now like the download only games, but don't like the business practice of keeping mum. I thought Jim was a stand-up guy (as far as you can tell over the internet) and I still do. I also believe that this community has outgrown Front Office Football, and while people still initially come here for that, I think they stay for the long term due to the community.

It's understandable in that this is a series of people who have a history of engaging in mindless speculation and silly accussations for their own personal agendas. If this were the first time any of these people engaged in a discussion like this that made radical off-the-wall claims and trasy allegations, I can see why Jim's response could be considered an over reaction. But given the history, I think his response was measured and proportional.

What I have always failed to understand is why people come to a site called Front Office Football Central owes its evolution and very existence today to its roll as a fan site if they don't like Jim, his products or his business management. In the era of blogs and cheap forums and Web sites, why bother coming to a place you seem to hate? I can only guess at the reasons ...

what is this agenda that everyone speaks of? wanting to create a huge star that's really a weapon to destroy whole planets so that the universe is forced to obey you - that is an agenda. i like sports text sim games, i've grown tired of the ones i currently have so now i've moved on to the part where i'm interested in what my next text sim purchase will be. if that's an agenda, if that makes me wrong to speculate then fine, that's my agenda.

i'm not a liaison to any company, nor am i a moderator of this board, i've nothing to give any credence to my opinions that should make people believe them anymore than anyone else's. i don't have to like Solecismic or agree with their business management - those aren't prerequisites to becoming a member of this board. the games are why i'm here, and the eagerness in conversating with others who share the same interests as i do (and sometimes conversating with other who don't share my interests) - that's why i'm here. this isn't an official Solecismic site, if my dislike or disagreement was so great i'd stay away from their own sanctioned board if they had one.

i don't have to like Solecismic or agree with their business management - those aren't prerequisites to becoming a member of this board

Nor are they prerequisites to eagerly anticipating, buying and liking the games.

I will go back to both that, and another quote you made.

Your long post decries that TCY was hyped and made into something it wasn't, causing the reviews to be not as good as FOF, or that you had hoped.

You have also previously posted (prior to FOF2004) that TCY was your best seller, and "there's no question TCY saved my company."

If you refuse to see that connection between that hype, and your best sales ever, admittedly, no one here can make you see that. Jim doesn't need me fighting his battles, but I think you've missed his point. Jim has said before that TCY's success for him and his company was not due to the initial sales; it was due to TCY continuing to sell months and even years later after its release. That had nothing to do with hype, but rather with a marketing approach that encourages long-term sales rather than a short-burst of sales upon initial release.

I do agree that the hope for TCY created an unrealistic expectation of what they game was going to be because people projected what they wanted onto the game thanks for the months of unending speculation we got to engage in before the game was released. The hype certainly probably helped him sell more copies initially, but it also increased consumer dissatisfaction because the hype created an expectation that the game was something that it was not. But TCY was a success in the long-term because it was a good product and Jim positioned it to have a long shelf life.

I would agree that for an independent developer, a sustained revenue source is preferably over a short-burst of income that makes customer service almost impossible to provide. I think that's why Jim's model works for him. If it works for him, why does it matter to you what he does?

If it works for him, why does it matter to you what he does?

It doesn't - the topic comes up, I participate in discussions. I find threads on future Solecismic games by far the most interesting here. I understand others do not. I hate parody threads, many find them funny.

I have stated many times, I have no personal stake in how Jim does business, nor in fact if he ever releases another game. I hope he does, I hope its TCY2, and I hope it sells well.

Why does it seem to bother you so much if I give my opinion? If you don't enjoy speculation on the next Solecismic games, nor discussion of its policies, do what I do when I see a parody thread - don't click on it.

What I have always failed to understand is why people come to a site called Front Office Football Central owes its evolution and very existence today to its roll as a fan site if they don't like Jim, his products or his business management.

If that's all FOFC was at this point, I can state without hesitation that I wouldn't be here any longer, strongly suspect that there's no shortage of people who could say pretty much the same.

I don't really see any real mystery in that. {shrug}

It doesn't - the topic comes up, I participate in discussions. I find threads on future Solecismic games by far the most interesting here. I understand others do not. I hate parody threads, many find them funny.
Try the werewolf threads. Heh heh.

No, I don't take it as an assault on my character. I take it as a business rumor that must be addressed.

I assumed the former a long time ago, and ignored these kinds of rumors. That ended up causing a lot more damage.

I don't like responding as I'm doing now. I think it's worse in the short term, as your post indicates. But it will help down the road. People need confidence that I'm not basing my business decisions on some arbitrary cutthroat behavior. People need confidence that I'm not abandoning my customers without hope of a new product.

Those are two very serious accusations - ones I've already addressed but keep coming up thanks to the work of a select few with an axe to grind.

As for the .400 situation, I don't know everything. I never will. All I'm referring to is what is already public knowledge about what Stallings himself did.

Fair enough....thanks for the response.

I was one of the few speculating about your business practices based on the release of the the last game. TPF was supposed to come out in November and I recall that is when your game was released. People had wondered if they should buy your game or wait for TPF which was supposed to be released the same month. However, they pushed the date due to some unforseen problems and it wasn't released until December. Based on that, I thought that HellAlantic's post was very plausible, because that is what happens in a competitive market.

Your response shows that is not the case and that's good to know that the niche community has more support for each other. All I am saying is that speculation and opinions happen on every gaming site and I don't think they hurt your business as much as you think it does, but once again this is my opinion.

I could say how I feel but I have been told I have a personal beef with a guy behind a computer.

Effective smokescreen Jim!

All us Canucks know Front Office Curling is coming out December 2nd to coincide with the Canadian Olympic Curling Trials.

We've heard the bootleg soundclips of Randy Ferbey calling Brad Gushue a snot nosed punk; seen the vidcaps of drunken Manitobans pinching Guy Hemmings' ass; not to mention the exhaustive training options like sending Russ Howard to a voice therapist.

Effective smokescreen Jim!

All us Canucks know Front Office Curling is coming out December 2nd to coincide with the Canadian Olympic Curling Trials.

We've heard the bootleg soundclips of Randy Ferbey calling Brad Gushue a snot nosed punk; seen the vidcaps of drunken Manitobans pinching Guy Hemmings' ass; not to mention the exhaustive training options like sending Russ Howard to a voice therapist.


Canada is a weird place. 49 live hours of curling.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
CCA Press Releases

TV schedule confirmed for 2005-2006 Season
Source: Canadian Curling Association
November 10, 2005 — 10:03 AM EST

November 10, 2005…The television schedule for curling’s 2005-2006 Season of Champions has been confirmed.
The recently announced Canadian Curling Association (CCA) agreement with CBC-TV and TSN will result in approximately 217 hours of coverage across Canada for seven competitions, including three Canadian championships and two world championships. TSN will devote roughly 168 hours (150 of which will be live) while CBC-TV will air 49 live hours.

This is new and exciting.

Well, just for kicks ... are there even 10 current titles in the text sports sim genre at the moment? Let's say "active" is about a year old or less, anything
older, I'd call "catalog".

Seriously, to heck with slamming anybody, I'm just hard pressed to name 10 currents.

There's an NBA, a Soccer, a hockey, a pro wrestling, there's the SAT computer version from Roogames. There's the college basketball that I'm not sure of the date on. That's 5, maybe 6. Somebody fill in the rest of the ten.
I was responding to your comment about the "gaming" industry. I took that to mean as a whole, not just the sports text sim market.

But it still applies. If they each wait and release at the same time, all they do is cannabilize sales from one another (or people buy both, and neither one has gained anything). If they try to match features, they never release. No good will come of it UNLESS one is clearly on top and is just trying to finish off the other one. I don't think that's the case here, as both Solecismic and Grey Dog have carved out niches for themselves (with overlap among people who will buy both anyway). And as you say, there are so few choices in the market, so they both benefit by more titles being out there to help expand the market (as Jim says).

And as you say, there are so few choices in the market,

Crap, I was hoping we could actually come up with at least ten current titles.

I think I omitted PureSim from my original list (IIRC, it's now for sale & the current sales version is <1 yr old, right), so that would bring us to 6 or 7.

Crap, I was hoping we could actually come up with at least ten current titles.

I think I omitted PureSim from my original list (IIRC, it's now for sale & the current sales version is <1 yr old, right), so that would bring us to 6 or 7.
Okay, I'll try:

FOF 5.1
TCY 1.3
OOTP
Purseim
TPB
EHM
FM / WWSM
Grey Dog's Wrestling sim (name escapes me)

With the following coming soon:

BBCF
TDCB

Does TPF meet the criteria?

How about web-based ones?

Simulated Sports Basketball
Simulated Sports Horse Racing
CSFBL (Computer Simulated Fantasy Baseball League)

That's off the top of my head.

not quite a new game, but it's new (http://money.cnn.com/2005/11/15/news/funny/salmon_soda.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes) nonetheless.

People need confidence that I'm not abandoning my customers without hope of a new product.

Those are ... very serious accusations - ones I've already addressed but keep coming up thanks to the work of a select few with an axe to grind.


This is the least speculative thing mentioned in this thread. To me this helps confirm that Solecismic is in fact still an active company with plans to release products in the future, despite the ominous "As we enter 2004, the future remains uncertain..." line on the Solecismic website (which reads like the last diary entry of an unsuccessful settler). Whether the next game comes out this year or next and whether it is curling or football, I'm happy to wait to find out.

Okay, I'll try:

FOF 5.1
TCY 1.3
OOTP
Purseim
TPB
EHM
FM / WWSM
Grey Dog's Wrestling sim (name escapes me)

With the following coming soon:

BBCF
TDCB

Does TPF meet the criteria?

How about web-based ones?

Simulated Sports Basketball
Simulated Sports Horse Racing
CSFBL (Computer Simulated Fantasy Baseball League)

That's off the top of my head.

hmmm...
some would argue with your selection of TCY (a patch), FOF (a patch), and OOTP (a patch?)...

what about that boxing game? isn't Heavy Reign the maker of that one? i'm not too knowledgeable on that game.

While I am perhaps beating a dead horse with the "This is new and exciting" line, I'd be reviving the horse and beating it past dead again if I had, say, posted a picture of myself or of Jaromir Jagr in a dress.

Count your blessings.

Baseball Mogul too...

Football Mogul also.

hmmm...
some would argue with your selection of TCY (a patch), FOF (a patch), and OOTP (a patch?)...
There was significant feature work in all 3. I thought the purpose behind this was to point out active titles? Or is it really "full price version released in the last year"? The latter is of less interest to me, as I'd rather people take the time to get things right, as long as they are maintaining the prior version.

There was significant feature work in all 3. I thought the purpose behind this was to point out active titles? Or is it really "full price version released in the last year"? The latter is of less interest to me, as I'd rather people take the time to get things right, as long as they are maintaining the prior version.

I'm curious (since I never played the FOF5.1d patch). Which do you consider to be the significant feature?

FOF 5.1d items:
1) Fixed an issue that caused the first play of all games simulated in the same second to use the same random number sequences.
2) Added warnings in the multi-player game for when an exported stage file might cause the AI to shuffle the depth chart or make roster changes.
3) Fixed the assignment of salaries for franchise players in the multi-player game.
4) Fixed an improper rejection of rookie contracts for cap reasons when the owner already has 53 players signed in the multi-player game.
5) Cleaned up some printing problems on the career statistics screen.
6) Added some conditions that might generate contract holdouts for underpaid players.

While I am perhaps beating a dead horse with the "This is new and exciting" line, I'd be reviving the horse and beating it past dead again if I had, say, posted a picture of myself or of Jaromir Jagr in a dress.

Count your blessings.
Blessings counted.

:D

Guys,
I just stop by to see if a new game was in the works as it is well into football season. Jim Sorry I asked...... :eek:

hi mom

Guys,
I just stop by to see if a new game was in the works as it is well into football season. Jim Sorry I asked...... :eek:
Don't worry, this happens everytime.

I will go back to both that, and another quote you made.

Your long post decries that TCY was hyped and made into something it wasn't, causing the reviews to be not as good as FOF, or that you had hoped.

You have also previously posted (prior to FOF2004) that TCY was your best seller, and "there's no question TCY saved my company."

Good post.

I also think any disappointment of TCY isn't so much due to the hype, but due to gameplay issues people have/had (as well as some showstopping bugs, IIRC). No playcalling, Time consuming, yet shallow recruiting (IMO), and things like that.

I'm curious (since I never played the FOF5.1d patch). Which do you consider to be the significant feature?

FOF 5.1d items:
1) Fixed an issue that caused the first play of all games simulated in the same second to use the same random number sequences.
2) Added warnings in the multi-player game for when an exported stage file might cause the AI to shuffle the depth chart or make roster changes.
3) Fixed the assignment of salaries for franchise players in the multi-player game.
4) Fixed an improper rejection of rookie contracts for cap reasons when the owner already has 53 players signed in the multi-player game.
5) Cleaned up some printing problems on the career statistics screen.
6) Added some conditions that might generate contract holdouts for underpaid players.
November 18 was less than a year ago. Here are the 5.1 changes I consider significant.

1) Created 2004 season player file.
2) Created 2004 schedule.
15) On the player salary offer screen, now shows current offer from your team in offer boxes, if there is one, during free agency period.
21) Allow fifth column of statistics to appear in FOF drafts generated from draft utility.
27) Tie available bonus money for salary and staff offers to the team's financial performance for the year.
35) Add a "primer", allowing you to create an entirely fictional universe when beginning career with allocation draft or full draft. Pretty neat, huh?
38) Create the concept of positional groups, used when calculating a legal roster, both for single-player and multi-player games. Now, for instance, you need to have eight offensive linemen active, but only a minimum of one center, two tackles and two guards. The same applies for defensive linemen, linebackers, your secondary and your offensive backfield.
39) Add the concept of an extended game log, which stores bits of additional information in the game log displayed upon request.
<!-- / message --><!-- controls --> 47) Allow third quarterback to remain in depth chart when injured and unable to play. This does not mean he will appear in a game.

Ya know, it just hit me. Maybe I reacted so strongly because I've been falsely accused of essentially the same thing that was in this trhead by a couple of area churches. Unfortunately, when it comes to youth ministry in this community, we are the biggest player in this area, and by a pretty wide margin. Some church staff members have accused me of all sorts of nasty things, including one who specifically accused me a couple of years ago (and word is that she still believes that I did this) of intentionally planning a trip to conflict with one that her church was doing so that I'd steal kids away. :rolleyes: She is apparently incapable of seeing that if I checked with the calendars of every church in the area before I planned a trip, I'd never do any trips, and further that the target audiences for a church choir tour and one of my trips are completely different.

Just to break in, but such actions are not uncommon in churches, which is why she might believe such. Shoot, she more than likely done something of that nature herself. I've always tried to work toward the "greater good" in things, not trying to "sheep-steal," but some churches are run just as cut-throat as any business. Anyway, carry on.

wow, we've just been given a peak at the seedy underworld of non-profit youth ministry.

wow, we've just been given a peak at the seedy underworld of non-profit youth ministry.

You don't even know. There is a local congregation that does somethings to keep members that are unreal.

Just to break in, but such actions are not uncommon in churches, which is why she might believe such. Shoot, she more than likely done something of that nature herself. I've always tried to work toward the "greater good" in things, not trying to "sheep-steal," but some churches are run just as cut-throat as any business. Anyway, carry on.
Curious. Is this a function of more sheep = more funding, more political clout, etc. Or is it just human nature to be competitive, even when you are not really gaining anything tangible by "winning?"

Just to break in, but such actions are not uncommon in churches, which is why she might believe such. Shoot, she more than likely done something of that nature herself. I've always tried to work toward the "greater good" in things, not trying to "sheep-steal," but some churches are run just as cut-throat as any business. Anyway, carry on.Yeah, there are reasons that I won't work for a church.

Curious. Is this a function of more sheep = more funding, more political clout, etc. Or is it just human nature to be competitive, even when you are not really gaining anything tangible by "winning?"
Yes to all the above. It especially true of independent congregations founded by one person. If you can grow it into a mega-church, those guys live like kings. But even in smaller congregations, your upward mobility and success is rated by attendance/contribution for the most part. Then there are those who just like to be biggest/best. We are all human, and some just give in to that type attitude.

Yeah, there are reasons that I won't work for a church.

And there are reasons I'm getting out. :)

Yes to all the above. It especially true of independent congregations founded by one person. If you can grow it into a mega-church, those guys live like kings. But even in smaller congregations, your upward mobility and success is rated by attendance/contribution for the most part. Then there are those who just like to be biggest/best. We are all human, and some just give in to that type attitude.

if you were to play my HardcoreSecondLife (http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/forums/showthread.php?t=44523) game you'd get to sabotage other congregations and steal their parishioners and youths for your youth ministry programs and be the biggest and best.

I don't know what the hell I did to deserve being singled out by Jim here. I was just trying to have some fun with this thread by adding my E.A. conspiracy theory to it. Yes, I believe EA is the devil and they are secretly buying up all NFL licenses and paying off programers not to release competing products. :)


Please add one of my new favorite games to the list of your top ten sports game TEW2005. Now if they can ever get the DOT MOD released over their I can die a happy Hacksaw Fan.

People need confidence that I'm not abandoning my customers without hope of a new product.

now THIS tells me there is a new game in the works!

You were right Pumpy, this is new and rather exciting.

It's funny I get lumped in as a Solecismic groupie (if I followed the sequence correctly). I am a bad customer of and for Solecismic but just like I couldn't stand the whining about BBCF "missing" the release date, I would say the same exact thing here. The game will be ready when it's ready. There is NOTHING you can do to change that (unless you are beta-testing). In the meantime, accept the things you cannot change and do something else - like play Civ4 or FBCB or something.

and i'll go you one further: i think BB is already done, and they in turn don't want Jim to feed off on some of their ideas. i think each are now playing a game where they want to steal the other guy's thunder.
Fascinacting. You've fashioned yourself a marketing guru in the past, and what you just described would basically be a disaster scenario for marketing a product. One of the golden rules of marketing: "The First In Wins."

But you think Grey Dog are sitting there with a finished Bowl Bound, waiting patiently for Jim to release a game that may not even exist.

Every time I convince myself you can't be dumber than you arleady are, you surprise me.

Fascinacting. You've fashioned yourself a marketing guru in the past, and what you just described would basically be a disaster scenario for marketing a product. One of the golden rules of marketing: "The First In Wins."

But you think Grey Dog are sitting there with a finished Bowl Bound, waiting patiently for Jim to release a game that may not even exist.

Every time I convince myself you can't be dumber than you arleady are, you surprise me.

unfortunately i've grown tired of this subject for the day, so no comment on my part.

unfortunately i've grown tired of this subject for the day, so no comment on my part.
Yup...time for, er, um...a sandwich.

Please add one of my new favorite games to the list of your top ten sports game TEW2005.

IIRC, I mentioned "pro wrestling game", and TEW is the one I was thinking of.