Combat Mission 2 (http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=000289;p=0)

Here's the announcement, next game is moving away from WW2 and into a modern hypothetical Syrian invasion. I'm glad to see a change in setting, but I would've liked to have seen a campaign involving the Chinese or something along those lines. I'll buy it regardless though. :)

Won't be waiting long for a trip back to WW2 either, as that's already in the pipeline as well.

Saw that yesterday, too. Quite an upgrade in graphics. I'm not much into modern combat games, but I'll be watching with interest.

The screenshots did look good :) I'll take a look at the demo but will probabaly wait for the WWII game to come out. Might be a good thing for us WWII player as it will give them time to work out the kinks on the first version.

I'll give it a look. My biggest issue with Combat Mission was trying to figure out what I could see from where. It was too easy to creep a vehicle forward just a bit too far and have it get nailed by something you thought it was hidden from. If the new engine helps me figure that out (and helps me find where I put all my guys in an urban space) I'll be all over it.

I'll give it a look. My biggest issue with Combat Mission was trying to figure out what I could see from where. It was too easy to creep a vehicle forward just a bit too far and have it get nailed by something you thought it was hidden from.
Heh.

I hear ya. In general, the CM battlefield size is not very conducive to vehicular survival. Unless you've got a hill or trees to hide behind, your toast pretty quick.

Combat Mission 2 (http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=52;t=000289;p=0)

Here's the announcement, next game is moving away from WW2 and into a modern hypothetical Syrian invasion. I'm glad to see a change in setting, but I would've liked to have seen a campaign involving the Chinese or something along those lines. I'll buy it regardless though. :)

Won't be waiting long for a trip back to WW2 either, as that's already in the pipeline as well. And if you haven't been following the CMx2 discussions, BFC has indicated that their new "modular" engine will support a much tighter release schedule for different game variations and modules than the collective CMx1 games (BO, BB, and AK).

I'll give it a look. My biggest issue with Combat Mission was trying to figure out what I could see from where. It was too easy to creep a vehicle forward just a bit too far and have it get nailed by something you thought it was hidden from. If the new engine helps me figure that out (and helps me find where I put all my guys in an urban space) I'll be all over it.
I agree. I still get mad about the halftrack that ventured a little too close to shoulder of the road early in the game and got disabled from a mine. Problem was that it was stuck right on the crossroads where most of my tanks and other vehicles were to come through.

Awesome! I like the updated ACU's and stryker and the overseas flag on the right sleeve. Pretty authentic there.

Good news, i prefer WWII but probably will get also the modern war version.

Now this sounds REALLY cool. Moreson than the news of the sequel to me, we're talking real campaigns here and multi-multiplay support, this should be a blast.

From the press release:

Strategy meets Tactics:
COMBAT MISSION CAMPAIGNS!

Battlefront.com and Hunting Tank Software are thrilled to announce
"Combat Mission Campaigns"!

Combat Mission Campaigns is an operational wargame where you command
forces up to a Division in size during the bloody nightmare of WWII's
Eastern Front from 1941-45. By working in tandem with the award winning
Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin game engine, Combat Mission
Campaigns allow you to command your troops at the operational level and then
play out the resulting battles at the tactical level.

CMBB and CMC actually share information back and forth so the
disposition and status of troops, experience, fatigue, supply, terrain, weather,
time of day and more are seamlessly integrated into both games. Plan
your strategies, issue orders and deploy your maneuver units in a dynamic
3D isometric map and when units close to engagement ranges, CMC
actually creates the battles (unit positions, status, weather, time of day
etc...) to then be played in CMBB. Once the tactical battle is finished,
CMBB then sends the results back to CMC and play is continued at the
Operational level.

Put simply, Combat Mission Campaigns adds the Operational and Strategic
elements that fans have always wanted in Combat Mission at an
unprecedented level of detail!

CMC is in beta stage currently with a tentative release date of "when
it's ready"... (but probably early next year)

STATEMENTS

Charles Moylan, co-founder and main programmer:
Following the success of the Combat Mission games, many fans approached
us with the idea of a "strategic layer" which would combine the
tactical battles of Combat Mission into one big picture. One of the most
clear, most detailed and exciting concepts came from Bruce Poon and his team
at Hunting Tank Software; it was so exciting in fact that we quickly
agreed to do our part to make this project come to life. Combat Mission
Campaigns takes the Combat Mission series to that next level that many
fans have hoped for! Starting with CMBB, it allows players to create and
replay large historical and fictional campaigns on the Eastern Front
using CM's tactical and CMC's strategic engines.

Bruce Poon, lead designer:
What we are trying to do with Combat Mission Campaign is provide the
operational level layer that Combat Mission players have always wanted.
Every feature has been designed to be as realistic, complex and
challenging as commanding troops really was back then, and to complement the
realism in Combat Mission itself. If we can provide a realistic and fun
game for Combat Mission players, we know that we have made a great
contribution. It could not have been done without great support from
Battlefront.


COMBAT MISSION CAMPAIGNS - GAME FEATURES

• Maneuver Elements of Platoon, Company or Battalion strength,
including Tanks, Guns, Vehicles and Infantry.
• A total force strength of roughly a division on each side is
playable.
• Commanders and their staffs rated for Leadership, Organization and
Aggressiveness, which impacts on both the operation and battles they
fight.
• The ability to define many roles within a single campaign, allowing
the player to interact with both humans and AIs on both sides of the
operation.
• An operationally focused Artificial Intelligence that can take over
the troops for one or a number of roles within the game.
• Multi-Multiplay support that allows for numerous human players
against either the AI or other people or a combination of both.
• A Multiplayer engine for coordinating the movement of multiple roles
and players.
• The ability for a unit to gain experience with combat success and
earn medals for successful actions.
• Tracking of casualties and awards throughout the campaign.
• The ability to save an Order of Battle at the completion of a
campaign.
• The ability to preview what units will appear in Combat Mission, and
their current state of readiness and experience.
• Accurate unit portraits based on Nationality, Division and Rank, and
the ability to have custom portraits for specific officers.
• Readiness system that combines fitness, fatigue and the actions and
battles a unit fights to determine an overall level of effectiveness.
• A range of commands including moving to attack, traveling,
entrenching, resting and all round defence.
• A command that allows a unit to be in Tactical Reserve, ready to move
to the assistance of other units in the area under certain
circumstances.
• Artillery in support of other units, resulting in the appearance of
Forward Observers on the battlefield.
• The ability to coordinate orders around 'H Hours' to move or begin an
assault.
• Transportation of troops using a range of vehicles such as Trucks,
Horses, Bicycles, Half Tracks and Motorbikes.
• The ability to direct subordinate commanders, human or AI.
• Exacting Fog of War system, showing limited information due to the
visibility of enemy troops, but also taking into account the time to
transfer information from one unit to another, the types of signals
involved, and the inertia in large units being able to respond to new orders.
• The ability to review the historical progress of the game, including
an ever improving operational view of 'What Really Happened'.
• The ability to send messages in between commanders, including the
delay of those messages based on communication mechanisms used.
• Communications paths based on the use of radios of varying quality
and type including telephones, vehicles, horses, skiers and runners.
• A 'who Can I See' mode which shows the areas of the operational map
that are currently visible to each unit, and which therefore may contain
visible enemy units (depending on their size, orders and current
weather and time of day conditions).
• A 'Who Can See Me' mode which shows the areas from which each unit
can be seen.
• Scalable Fog of War settings to increase or decrease realism.
• Tactical Battlefields of up to 4 square kilometers in size, and
Operational areas of several hundred square kilometers.
• Victory Locations at the operational and tactical level.
• Varying weather and its impact on the Ground Condition, Movement and
Visibility.
• Battlefield sounds that reflect the environment and conditions of the
operation.
• An Auto-Combat feature for battles, for when the battle is not worth
playing out in CMBB.
• Supply Availability and the gradual depletion of resources, including
Ammunition; Petrol, Oil and Lubricants; and Basic Supplies such as
food, water, medical supplies.
• Full Map, Order of Battle, Turn, Time of Day, and Weather Editors all
included.
• Map Editor allows 9 Different Ground Conditions (Deep Snow, Snow,
Light Snow, Deep Mud, Mud, Wet, Damp, Dry, Very Dry) plus a variety of
terrain types including Cities/Towns,, Villages, Farmlands, Marshes, Light
and Densely Rocky and Wooded areas plus Dirt and Paved Roads and
Railways.
• Map 'extras' allowing the Operational maps to be adorned with extra
detailed graphics like cows, sheep, telegraph poles and more.
• A weather editing program that allows historical weather conditions
to be accurately reflected in the game.
• An Order of Battle Editor enabling the selection of a range of German
and Russian troop types and formations.
• The ability to save and load standard formation types.
• A Turn Editor which allows for the game to run with several different
turn lengths (in hours), including the allowance of different turn
lengths for different times of day.
• A Time of Day editor allowing for different dark / light cycles in
different regions of the conflict.
• A Briefings editor that allows for scenario briefings to be included
for all players.
• Integrated Help Menus.

Good news, one thing that turned me down from the CM series was that there was not a campaign mode, just single scenarios.

So Combat Mission Shock Force has been released.

I didn't buy it day one because I wasn't for sure how well my PC would run it anymore as it's getting a wee bit old, and now I'm beginning to think I was lucky I didn't.

The early word of mouth is terrible on this. It's not just a letdown compared to the earlier games but it sounds like this is terrible all around. Bad interface, crap performance, it just doesn't sound good. It sounds like moving Combat Mission to modern day also just didn't work smoothly as most people were afraid of.

Anyone picked this up? Looks like I'll be waiting for them to go back to WW2.

I had high hopes for this one also, wanted them to keep on trying different eras/wars.

So Combat Mission Shock Force has been released.

I didn't buy it day one because I wasn't for sure how well my PC would run it anymore as it's getting a wee bit old, and now I'm beginning to think I was lucky I didn't.

The early word of mouth is terrible on this. It's not just a letdown compared to the earlier games but it sounds like this is terrible all around. Bad interface, crap performance, it just doesn't sound good. It sounds like moving Combat Mission to modern day also just didn't work smoothly as most people were afraid of.

Anyone picked this up? Looks like I'll be waiting for them to go back to WW2.

I had high hopes for this one also, wanted them to keep on trying different eras/wars.

Actually from what I've read on battlefront's site the game is not being released until tomorrow (Friday July 27th). The reviews are coming from v1.0 copies sent out in the last couple of weeks.

I'm only interested in a WWII version but if I were interested in this modern day game I'd wait for the buyers that start getting the game tomorrow for more information before writing off the new CM.

I'm still debating. I liked the original Combat Mission, not so much Barbarossa to Berlin (the demo was just tanks killing each other at long range for the most part and did nothing for me). I love the move to pausable real-time. The pre-order is $10 off, so trying to decide.

Actually from what I've read on battlefront's site the game is not being released until tomorrow (Friday July 27th). The reviews are coming from v1.0 copies sent out in the last couple of weeks.

I'm only interested in a WWII version but if I were interested in this modern day game I'd wait for the buyers that start getting the game tomorrow for more information before writing off the new CM.

Yeah, I just realized it didn't come out until tomorrow. Still that's pretty bad to be sending out review copies in that shape, and I've been looking at Steve Grammont's responses to a review Tom Chick of the game there on the battlefront forums and losing a lot of respect for him. It's sure off to a bad start.

Ok, so the retail game is out now as well as the demo. Here's a link to the demo for anyone interested.

hxxp://www.battlefront.com/products/cmsf/downloads.html

I've only got a chance to play the very basic training scenario, which is pretty much just a turkey shoot with your Strykers against the Syrians. Lets you get a feel for the interface though, and I'd have to say I'm not a fan of the changes. They've broken up orders into 4 different tabs, like movement, combat, etc..and within each tab the same hotkeys are used..so you only have to memorize a few hotkeys, but better make sure you're in the right tab. Not a huge deal, but a minor quibble. The bigger deal is no tooltips, anywhere. What the hell year are we in? I think I've read they plan on patching them in, but that's a terrible thing to leave out as a lot of the icons are pretty ambiguous as to what they do.

As to the good though, it feels like Combat Mission that's for sure. It looks very pretty, and it actually runs pretty well on my machine which is below the minimum requirements. Now this was just from the tiny training scenario without many units or things going on so I'm sure it'll run a lot worse later, but I'm pleased with the performance so far.

I didn't try the real time version, and I can't imagine that I will...just not my cup of tea, and I can't imagine it not being terribly hectic.

Too early to give it a thumb's up or down yet.

Anyone else tried it out yet?

I bought it yesterday (right before the pre-order $10 off slipped away) and played a couple of scenarios. Some observations:

1) It feels and looks a lot like CM1. I love the new icons above the troops, makes it easier to select them, especially when you want to pick infantry in an APC. Also makes targeting enemies easier, as you can drag the targeting cursor onto the icon instead of the unit itself. The rest of the battlefield feels like CM1 but prettier.

2) No right-click to give an order? I understand the desire for improved camera controls, but at the expense of a key usability feature?

3) New camera controls will take some getting used to. I think I'll get used to them, although they could have used middle-mouse for rotate and left for move and kept the right mouse for the right-click order thing. Or used two keyboard keys as modifiers.

4) The new orders panel layout is a pain. Having the same hotkeys do different things depending on what panel you are in is *very* annoying. I'm constantly giving the wrong orders for my troops. At least I finally found the "cancel" button, which without tool tips was an adventure. Note that a right-click menu would fix this, as would different hotkeys across the different panels.

5) I *love* the real-time feature. Battles move along quicker without the artificial breaks in them.

6) AI pathfinding as some definite quirks, where you'll watch units go all over the place to get through some gap, or to move a few meters. Not too bad, just some quirks.

Overall I give it a B at this point, with the UI / usability dragging it down. We'll see how they tweak it with patches, as in the past they've been very good about support.

Couple other things I've noticed, people are saying that PBEM files are weighing in at 15-25 megs, that's going to kill that for a lot of people.

No WEGO in TCP/IP either, only realtime.

I played a bit more on the demo this afternoon and I'm going to pass for now. They've just taken a huge step backwards with the interface, and there's a lot of little quirks that are turning me off. I do believe it's all fixable though and will probably check back in a couple months to see how it's shaping up.